quote:Originally posted by Lockman: Now the USA is suppose to correct all the problems in 3rd world countries? All I've heard is how we should have stayed out of Iraq and let them work out their own problems. Please make up your mind! Oh wait if a democrat president proposes something we should rush right in. Close the border and restict the ability of illegals to work and they will go home.
Why not? Don't we pressure Latin American gov't's to eradicate drug trafficking by raiding labs, arresting cartel members, more scrutiny of banks to stop money laundering etc.? We already are involved in Latin America, where have you been?.
This is the most stupidest statement I have heard on the subject: "Close the border and restict the ability of illegals to work and they will go home."
That is like saying the same thing for drugs. Closing the border is not the solution and will not stop the stem of drugs and much less illegal immigration.
And next time read what i say before commenting. I said we should "PRESSURE" the Governments of Latin American countries to come up with solutions to their poverty problems instead of us just closing the borders and thinking that will solve illegal immigration. Which it won't. This is the richest country in the world (though that can be debatable now) and if a illegal immigrant wants to get here he or she will. Where there is a will there is a way. But if you Pressure countries south of the border to resolve their poverty problems (key word: pressure. I never said we solve their problems)you will see a significant decrease in illegal immigration. Not completely gone but not out of control like it is now.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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restricting their ability to work will work.
there's a big difference between drug cartels and the people who hire illegals... dope dealers expect legal problems, normal business owners avoid them whenever they can...
take the profit out with stiff fines and send people to weekend jails... they'll stop hiring them right away
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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Whose taxes do you imagine will pay off our debt to China for your war dufus?
Bdgee, Please stop with the name calling. Who said it was my war? Exactly what is OBAMA going to do when we pull our troops out of the middle east and they decide to turn off the oil pumps? You think folks where ready to go to war after 9/11? We'll be right back there in a flash.
-------------------- Let's Go METS!!! Posts: 3317 | From: CT | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Lockman: Have they proposed anything? Obama will not be proposing cutting taxes, he wants more government control of our everyday lives and that means more government jobs and how do you think that's gonna get paid for. Logical?
Why propose anything when it's not going to be done right now but later. That would be a waste of taxpayer money to propose something prematurately. Raising taxes is a reactive thing. Bush Sr. did it even though he said no more new taxes. He came to the realization that it won't work to solve the major Deficit Reagan left behind and that is where we are now. No matter who becomes President that person sooner or later will realize the budget deficit will require tax increases to shrink it. That is inevitable. Raising taxes is REACTIVE. Do you really f*cking think that Obama or anyone wants to raise taxes to create Gov't jobs? You really don't think these issues through do you.
The deficit is about $407 Billion with it being at $438 Billion by 2009 (my #'s might be off but it's high up there). Double of last year. And that is before taking into account the Freddie/Fannie fiasco. Again, do you think Bush's tax cuts help this deficit & do you think another GOP tax cut for the wealthy will help this deficit?. If McCain becomes President, which I hop he doesn't, but if he does he will have to do what Bush Sr. had to do. There is no way out of it. It's not about f*cking creating Gov't jobs.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: restricting their ability to work will work.
there's a big difference between drug cartels and the people who hire illegals... dope dealers expect legal problems, normal business owners avoid them whenever they can...
take the profit out with stiff fines and send people to weekend jails... they'll stop hiring them right away
It won't stop it nor decrease it. One will stop hiring them and another will hire them instead. Because of the basic human urge of Greed or to stay in business. Again it is like drugs in that if you take down one cartel another one springs up. Do you think legal problems, fines, jail time stops people from trafficking in drugs? of course not. Nor will it for illegal immigration and such. Again, pressure latin american countries to solve their poverty problems and you will see the decrease here because they will stay in their country if there is more opportunity , more people becoming middle class etc. That is more logical.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: comeoen now, you don't really think going to war made oil more abundant or cheaper?
or that oil is only flowing because we have troops in the mideast?
I believe we were attacked by a powerful group originating in the middle east, a group that if left unchecked would have disrupted the oil supply , not only to the USA but the rest of the world. Our involvement in Iraq has been expensive and could probably been avoided, but since we are there we should make every effort to secure a strategic advantage in our war against extreme islamic terrorism.
-------------------- Let's Go METS!!! Posts: 3317 | From: CT | Registered: Dec 2006
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Do you think legal problems, fines, jail time stops people from trafficking in drugs? of course not. Nor will it for illegal immigration and such.
sorry, but you aren't even close on this...
Joe Blow's cafe can't hide the illegal dishwashers in stash holes...
it's apples and oranges..
Joe Blow will not hire illegals if it means he'll lose his yearly profits while dope dealers add the cost of legal fees plus into their profit margins when they decide to do business..
it is illegal to hire illegals.. just enforce the current law is all they have to do...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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I believe we were attacked by a powerful group originating in the middle east, a group that if left unchecked would have disrupted the oil supply , not only to the USA but the rest of the world. Our involvement in Iraq has been expensive and could probably been avoided, but since we are there we should make every effort to secure a strategic advantage in our war against extreme islamic terrorism.
i beleive we were attacked by an idiot who actually should have been caught because he didn't even bother to go into hiding before the 9-11 attack...
Iraq/sadam had nothing to do with 9-11... period. and they still aren't producing as much oil now as they were when we attacked.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Lockman: Whose taxes do you imagine will pay off our debt to China for your war dufus?
Bdgee, Please stop with the name calling. Who said it was my war? Exactly what is OBAMA going to do when we pull our troops out of the middle east and they decide to turn off the oil pumps? You think folks where ready to go to war after 9/11? We'll be right back there in a flash.
You are a party first loyal republican. War in Iraq is republican loyalty war, thus, it is your war.
That war has nothing to do with the welfare of the United States of America. It was designed to create a one party republican majority in the Country.
It's only connection to oil is so that the republicans can repay the oil companies for financing their fixing of the Florida vote in 2000, by siphoning off funds from the U. S. Treasury and placing them in the coffer of the oil barons, which, in turn, they hide out offshore and never pay taxes on them.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Lockman: Whose taxes do you imagine will pay off our debt to China for your war dufus?
Bdgee, Please stop with the name calling. Who said it was my war? Exactly what is OBAMA going to do when we pull our troops out of the middle east and they decide to turn off the oil pumps? You think folks where ready to go to war after 9/11? We'll be right back there in a flash.
That's not name calling you goose. It's an honorable and sincere question. Seems to have you stumped. But, then, so much that involves integrity does....like hollering name callin when it isnt'.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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All I have to say about what Obama will do about taxes is just go to his web site.
Most of the cuts will be for folks that make under $50,000 per year evry one from that point on will realize a little help but stay about the same . Until you get to $250,000 and up and you loose some ground. So what they have had the advantage for so long.like since Ronald Reagan what there obligation is is still very small compared to what they used to pay not like now at the expense of the country. May I add a country who's system allowed for them to get there and protect them they do owe something back. What they will be is close to there 30 year historic lows
Inturn we will get better schools more employed people a healthier people and country with less crime.
Either that or we will have more of what we got plus a VP that says god talks to her. How would you like to have that get the 3 am telephone call
Posts: 6008 | From: phoenix az | Registered: Mar 2005
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The only tax most people who make under 50,000 pay are social security/medicare and sales tax.
Obama is going to increase income tax on the hard working, job creating americans. An American who is over taxed will just pay the taxes and forget about creating the jobs. Then all those people making under 250,000.00 can get in the government line for hand outs.
It's called socialism.
-------------------- Let's Go METS!!! Posts: 3317 | From: CT | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Lockman: The only tax most people who make under 50,000 pay are social security/medicare and sales tax.
Obama is going to increase income tax on the hard working, job creating americans. An American who is over taxed will just pay the taxes and forget about creating the jobs. Then all those people making under 250,000.00 can get in the government line for hand outs.
It's called socialism.
you should see what Palin did in Alaska.
she raised taxes on oil co's and GAVE the cash to all Alaskans...
that's socialism too... why are you cheering for her again?
Palin oil tax gets cold shoulder
PPT: No special session needed, says the resource association head.
The Associated Press
Published: September 7, 2007 Last Modified: September 7, 2007 at 10:03 AM
FAIRBANKS -- The head of the Alaska Oil and Gas Association presented Gov. Sarah Palin with a long list of concerns regarding her new oil tax proposal. Marilyn Crockett said this week that the proposal could decrease investment in the state by raising the tax burden on companies.
Crockett also said it would replace a tax that isn't broken and has not yet had a chance to work.
"The industry does not want to have a special session," she told members of the Alaska Support Industry Alliance at a luncheon in Fairbanks.
Other members of the oil and gas association, which include Exxon Mobil, BP and Conoco Phillips, also expressed their reservations about Palin's proposal.
"We agree with the governor's approach to stay with a PPT-based tax structure; however, we are concerned that the tax rates proposed will make every single project look less attractive for us to reinvest," Kevin Mitchell, vice president of finance and administration for Conoco Phillips, wrote in an e-mail to the Fairbanks Daily News-Miner.
Palin this week restated her intention to call a special legislative session next month to revisit the oil production tax passed last summer. She also presented an outline for a new tax that would increase the tax rate.
it's unclear whether she has raised taxes on oil co's in Alaska two or three times....
if it really is three? that's very fast work since she's only been in office since Dec '06...
The increase backed by the Republican vice presidential nominee will, at current prices, raise oil revenue to $11 billion this year -- almost twice what the state needs to fund its government -- state documents show. Alaska also has gotten more money from the federal government than its residents pay in taxes -- $1.75 per tax dollar in 2006, the most recent year available, according to the Tax Foundation, a Washington research group.
Alaska has no state income, property or sales tax. the oil co's pay 85% of all taxes in Alaska and she GIVES cash to people from it...
straight up socialism... this from a conservative? LOL... it's a JOKE! and the joke is on the American People.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Lockman: she's not running for president and I see McCain as the less dangerous of the two.
If Palin is such a socialist why aren't the Democrats cheering for her?
McCain needed palin...
Palin is a social conservative and an economic socialist...
i'm not making this stuff up..
nobody has even mentioned this oil tax stuff on any of the major news channels that i've seen...
they talk about her selling the jet on ebay, but it didn't sell on ebay.. it was brokered at a 600,000$ loss..
nobody seems to even care about the truth anymore.
it's all about photo-ops and soundbites...
Palin, in her vice-presidential acceptance speech Sept. 3, touted her fiscal credentials by saying she trimmed a half- billion dollars from the state budget. She used a line-item veto to cut hundreds of grants, including $300,000 for a Catholic Community Services family counseling and adoption program, $6,200 to repair the sidewalk in front of an Anchorage elementary school and $6 million to replace an aging Anchorage fire station.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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I've read about and seen it reported about the Oil company taxes. You saying when OBAMA gets congress to tax oil companies on all that excess profits where all going to get a check? I'd say it will go to expanding social dependancy on the government.
-------------------- Let's Go METS!!! Posts: 3317 | From: CT | Registered: Dec 2006
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I'd say it will go to expanding social dependancy on the government.
Alaskans get 1.75 BACK in US Fed spending ofr every dollar they pay...
here's what i see happening today:
Social Conservatives and Fiscal liberals have taken over the GOP, that's how we got into this mess we are in.
only HONEST people will actually tell you they are going to raise taxes. if Mccain doesn't raise taxes? we'll be 20 trillion or more into debt in 8 years...
i don't want taxes raised. but i also don't want to see my kids inherit a 20 TRILLION dollar national debt...
it was "only" 4 trillion when Bush got into office.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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No matter what the right says we do not need a McCain Palin ticket what a financial mess we would have.
It is a sure fact that trickle down does not work in America any body that would support it would be totaly unaware of the lst 30 years. What does work for society is you put moore spending power in the hands of lower income people.
As for expanding social dependancy on Government look at Alaska the best example of in America.
The nuts up there keep complaining about the Government but most of them owe there living to Federal tax dollars directly or indirectly.
Posts: 6008 | From: phoenix az | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Sarah Palin Defends Experience, Takes Hard Line Approach on National Security Republican VP Candidate Speaks with ABC News' Charles Gibson in Exclusive Interview
By RUSSELL GOLDMAN Sept. 11, 2008
On the anniversary of the worst terrorist attack in U.S. history, Gov. Sarah Palin took a hard-line approach on national security and said that war with Russia may be necessary if Georgia were to join NATO and be invaded by Russia.
Charles Gibson asks Gov. Sarah Palin if she's prepared to be vice president.
In her first of three interviews with ABC News' Charles Gibson and the only interview since being picked by Sen. John McCain as his Republican vice presidential nominee, Palin categorized the Russian invasion of Georgia as "unacceptable" and warned of the threats from Islamic terrorists and a nuclear Iran.
Already talking war with Russia.
When Gibson said if under the NATO treaty, the United States would have to go to war if Russia again invaded Georgia, Palin responded: "Perhaps so. I mean, that is the agreement when you are a NATO ally, is if another country is attacked, you're going to be expected to be called upon and help.
quote:Social Conservatives and Fiscal liberals have taken over the GOP, that's how we got into this mess we are in.
Actually, I agree with that. What we need are fiscal conservatives. McCain will not be good for the country financially. Obama is a socialist and will be even worse. It's a lose/lose proposition.
quote:only HONEST people will actually tell you they are going to raise taxes. if Mccain doesn't raise taxes? we'll be 20 trillion or more into debt in 8 years...
We don't need taxes raised, we need taxes lowered and entitlements DRASTICALLY cut.
Posts: 1577 | From: Ohio | Registered: Oct 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Lockman: The only tax most people who make under 50,000 pay are social security/medicare and sales tax.
Obama is going to increase income tax on the hard working, job creating americans. An American who is over taxed will just pay the taxes and forget about creating the jobs. Then all those people making under 250,000.00 can get in the government line for hand outs.
It's called socialism.
You really are a simple minded fool if you believe all that BS you strew about. Put that crap in your own yard and keep it there so the rest of us don't have to put up with your stinking stupid lies. Do you have any thing to say that isn't a lie?
Someone MUST raise taxes or this Nation goes out of existence. But then, that's the ultimate design of republican tactic and is all they have wanted since their King Nixon was dethroned.
YES SHE IS RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT AND IF McCAIN WINS, SHE WILL BE PRESIDENT WITHIN THREE YEARS.Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Social Conservatives and Fiscal liberals have taken over the GOP, that's how we got into this mess we are in.
Actually, I agree with that. What we need are fiscal conservatives. McCain will not be good for the country financially. Obama is a socialist and will be even worse. It's a lose/lose proposition.
quote:only HONEST people will actually tell you they are going to raise taxes. if Mccain doesn't raise taxes? we'll be 20 trillion or more into debt in 8 years...
We don't need taxes raised, we need taxes lowered and entitlements DRASTICALLY cut.
Palin is a practicing Socialist. Taking money from oil companies and redistributing to the people of Alaska. The oil tax along with federal money is the majority of her budget. How would she do on a national scale without those available? Or would she just tax all oil companies to make up the budget deficit.
Once again which entitlements are you talking about? Social Security and Medicare? Because those are the largest entitlements in the budget. Entitlements which by the way have been paid into throughtout the life of an individual.
Posts: 3255 | From: Los Angeles California | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Once again which entitlements are you talking about? Social Security and Medicare? Because those are the largest entitlements in the budget. Entitlements which by the way have been paid into throughtout the life of an individual.
YES! I would immediately raise the age for social security benefits and phase out social security altogether for people who enter the job market in the future. I would also eliminate the new medicare drug benefit. In addition, I would phase out welfare over a short period of time; phase out Section 8 and other government housing programs; stop providing medical care through emergency rooms for people with colds and other minor medical issues; etc, etc, etc. In other words, I would take an axe to these programs and allow people to once again be responsible for themselves!
Posts: 1577 | From: Ohio | Registered: Oct 2007
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: it is illegal to hire illegals.. just enforce the current law is all they have to do...
LoL yah, enforce the law and the problem goes away because we all know enforcing laws in this country or in other countries stops crimes especially non-violent crimes This is one and probably the only issue you are not a realist Glass...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Lockman: The only tax most people who make under 50,000 pay are social security/medicare and sales tax.
Obama is going to increase income tax on the hard working, job creating americans. An American who is over taxed will just pay the taxes and forget about creating the jobs. Then all those people making under 250,000.00 can get in the government line for hand outs.
It's called socialism.
I don't know about you but when i was making under $50,000 per year i was being taxed for more then just the ones you named... but here's some food for thought for both you and the little minded PMS:
And deeper in debtFigures show country's shaky finances
Newsday.com September 11, 2008
The candidates running for president talk a lot about taxes: who will cut them, who will cut them more, and who will raise them. What they don't talk enough about is the need to improve the truly sorry state of the federal government's finances.
Washington will end the year $407 billion in the red, the Congressional Budget Office said Tuesday. Years of deficit spending has left the government $9.7 trillion in debt. The interest alone will cost taxpayers $431 billion this year. More than half that debt is owed to foreign countries and other outside lenders whom we'll pay $3.35 trillion in interest over 10 years.
Why do red ink and debt matter? Every dime paid in interest - 7.9 percent of all federal spending this year - is a dime that's not available for things people want from government. Things like Medicare, Social Security, Medicaid and other mandatory programs that account for 54 percent of all federal spending. And national defense, which is another 20.5 percent. Together, that's more than $8 of every $10 that Washington spends.
The rest - medical research, environmental protection, law enforcement, food and drug safety, and everything else subject to annual appropriations by Congress - will cost $476 billion this year. Compare that to the $407 billion deficit, and it's clear that Washington is living on borrowed money.
With aging baby boomers poised to drive the cost of Social Security and Medicare through the roof, voters need to ask Barack Obama and John McCain if they plan to end the nation's borrowing binge. And they need straight answers.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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Glass is exactly right on this issue. If you want to stop illegal immigration, enforce the penalties/stiffen the penalties for employers. Another way to handle it is to make it illegal to rent or sell a house/apartment to them. With no place to live or work, the majority won't stay.
Posts: 1577 | From: Ohio | Registered: Oct 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Propertymanager: Glass is exactly right on this issue. If you want to stop illegal immigration, enforce the penalties/stiffen the penalties for employers. Another way to handle it is to make it illegal to rent or sell a house/apartment to them. With no place to live or work, the majority won't stay.
Wow, you really don't know poverty in other countries... do you think living on the streets would bother them as much as it would an American? lol
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Propertymanager: Glass is exactly right on this issue. If you want to stop illegal immigration, enforce the penalties/stiffen the penalties for employers. Another way to handle it is to make it illegal to rent or sell a house/apartment to them. With no place to live or work, the majority won't stay.
Wow, you really don't know poverty in other countries... do you think living on the streets would bother them as much as it would an American? lol
If we instituted the cuts that PM adovcates it would be hard to tell who was who living on the streets as there would be millions and millions more americans living on the street looking for soup kitchens. I guess he forgot why FDR started Social security, medicare and unemployment to begin with and what this country would look like without it.
As for the comment by Lockman that people making uder $50K don't pay taxes. That comment is as out of touch with reality as McCain saying that the economy is sound. I paid taxes my whole life, quite a few of those years early on I made under $25K and always paid taxes, in fact i don't remember one year that I ever received a full refund of what was taken out by my employer. I still do simple taxes for a few nephews and nieces who are single and make around $20K. They pay taxes. I mean the taxes are taken out by their employer and they don't get it all back in the form of a return.
Posts: 3255 | From: Los Angeles California | Registered: Jan 2006
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I no longer know what we have but when a segment of society abuses the populace (oil firms), then I dont consider it socialism to take away what is not theirs and give it back to all.....
It would be socialist if the oil firms earned it the capitalistic way but I dont feel they have - they stole it and govt let them - so to give back to all is fair -- more democratic then socialistic --- I consider socialism as taking away from folks that earned the rewards of capitalism - the oil greed in bed with govt stole it --
Posts: 864 | Registered: Jun 2004
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This is one and probably the only issue you are not a realist Glass...
