quote:Originally posted by SuperSniper00: thats never going to happen because too much money is involved in oil
same reason we havent stopped the drug trade
same reason we back israel
same reason russian/france and the rest of those turds back iran
MONEY!
I agree with snipe..EXCEPT! It is too my understanding we have alot more untapped oil reserves here in the U.S. then people know about. In laymans terms...why use up our own when we can use up other countries. This is what i have been told
-------------------- "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
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Half eh? Paternal or maternal side? Maybe I should ask then, what religion are you?
Your a slippery one alright, on one hand you say we should mind our own business, on the other, we should have been involved in WW2 sooner.
So if several more countries get involved with the present war, do you think we should then step in? Should we wait until three million are wiped out this time? Keep in mind there's only 6 million of your half brethren present in Israel right now.
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You're twisting my words. Our involvement in WWII was humanitarian in nature. I don't subscribe to an organized religion; I do have a personal faith. (Imagine how peaceful the world would be if more of us could say that.)
Does Lebanon host concentration camps exterminating Jews at the rate of 1,000 a day? How about Palestine? If so, please advise.
As a matter of fact, this picture from the Gaza strip looks closer to a concentration camp than I'm comfortable with.
quote:Originally posted by MagicK: Half eh? Paternal or maternal side? Maybe I should ask then, what religion are you?
Your a slippery one alright, on one hand you say we should mind our own business, on the other, we should have been involved in WW2 sooner.
So if several more countries get involved with the present war, do you think we should then step in? Should we wait until three million are wiped out this time? Keep in mind there's only 6 million of your half brethren present in Israel right now.
-------------------- "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
quote:Is it fair to draw comparisons between the helpless inmates of Hitler's concentration camps and the heavily-armed government of Israel? Absolutely not.
No such comparison was made. Reread my post, I was noting the very attitude you pose we maintain, was the very same one which gave rise to Israel in the first place, and if it was adopted once again, would lead to her demise.
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Dont be fooled....with all the technology we have today do you think we really have to rely on the black goop in the ground. we have a remote control car on MARS. I mean comon its a joke. You dont think Big oil through poloticians is stifling our alternatives.
-------------------- "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
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Your basic argument is flawed. Like it or not, Israel is heavily armed and can (and does) defend/attack as it wishes. The concentration camp occupants did not have this advantage and needed every bit of help that was provided.
Is it fair to draw comparisons between the helpless inmates of Hitler's concentration camps and the heavily-armed government of Israel? Absolutely not.
quote:Originally posted by MagicK:
quote:Is it fair to draw comparisons between the helpless inmates of Hitler's concentration camps and the heavily-armed government of Israel? Absolutely not.
No such comparison was made. Reread my post, I was noting the very attitude you pose we maintain, was the very same one which gave rise to Israel in the first place, and if it was adopted once again, would lead to her demise.
-------------------- "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
quote:The US doesn't need to engage in diplomacy as it is not our country's battle. It is up to the two who are in conflict to resolve it. We should neither condone nor condemn, nor should we offer incentives or choose sides.
quote:Should we have intervened in WWII sooner? Absolutely.
quote:Did the USA wait too long? For three million or so of us, yes.
Ever think of running for some political position? You already have what it takes.
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Yep. I can't help but think that all the technology for viable alternative energy already exists but is safely locked up in the ExxonMobilTexaco vaults.
quote:Originally posted by rimasco: Dont be fooled....with all the technology we have today do you think we really have to rely on the black goop in the ground. we have a remote control car on MARS. I mean comon its a joke. You dont think Big oil through poloticians is stifling our alternatives.
-------------------- "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
posted
If you bothered to read my entire posts, you would find that I firmly support humanitarian aid. I believe WWII was largely humanitarian in nature.
I don't condone nation building or help with hostile takeovers of disputed non-US lands.
Nor do I condone occupying countries for their resources or other corporate industrial interests.
The distortion continues.
Peace, brother.
quote:Originally posted by MagicK:
quote:Your twisting my words.
Really?
quote:The US doesn't need to engage in diplomacy as it is not our country's battle. It is up to the two who are in conflict to resolve it. We should neither condone nor condemn, nor should we offer incentives or choose sides.
quote:Should we have intervened in WWII sooner? Absolutely.
quote:Did the USA wait too long? For three million or so of us, yes.
Ever think of running for some political position? You already have what it takes.
-------------------- "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
posted
you guys are waisting your time trying to figure out a culture that is bent on destruction of all religions. Even different sectors of there own. Sunni, kurd- Shia, Shiite....They would be killing eachother if they didnt have Israel to focus their rage on... here this article says it best
October 28, 2005 -- THIS week the president of Iran told a student rally that Israel should be "wiped off the map." Always a crowd pleaser in Tehran, Mr. Ahmadinejad's call to exterminate Jews rang freshly ominous in view of his government's nuclear ambitions. Meeting with a lively group of American businessmen on Tuesday, I was asked how we'd know when Tehran was on the verge of acquiring a nuclear capability. "You'll see Israeli planes in the sky over Iran," I said with a smile masking my seriousness.
But it won't be as easy as Israel's 1981 destruction of Iraq's French-built Osirak reactor. This time, Israel will need more than attack aircraft (and better refueling means). It may take a combination of aircraft, missiles, special-ops teams and clandestine resources to interrupt Iran's nuclear program if the world fails to act. The effort would look more like the opening of the 1967 war than a pin-point strike.
But Iranian nuclear weapons constitute a literal life-or-death issue for Israel. Tel Aviv would be better off facing the world's (disingenuous) outrage than nuclear destruction.
Even for the military power of the United States, shattering Iran's nuclear-weapons program would be complicated. Iran's facilities are dispersed, hidden, buried and hardened. Attacks would kill foreign technicians wisely hired by Iran — de facto hostages.
Yet, for all of the concern that Israel, the United States and blithely irresponsible Europe should feel about Tehran's quest for nuclear weapons, the Sunni Muslims of the Middle East and Pakistan should be more worried still.
The likeliest future nuclear exchange in the Middle East may not be between Israel and Iran, after all, but between Shi'a and Sunni Muslims.
The Pakistani bomb is a Sunni bomb. Tehran is hell-bent on having a Shi'a bomb to counter it.
And we are not talking about emotionally stable adversaries. The psychological dislocations of the greater Middle East and the ferocity of religious differences make the region the likeliest in the world to see an internal nuclear exchange. Even India and Pakistan are far less apt to engage in nuclear war (unless a regime of religious madmen grasps power in Islamabad).
Fiery rhetoric notwithstanding, Tehran's nuclear target list doesn't necessarily start with Israel. Tel Aviv's capacity for devastating retaliation may — may — deter an Iranian government with any residual survival instincts. And while Israel is the great symbolic enemy, the first place on the practical side goes to Sunni Arabs.
With our abysmally short historical memories, we forget that the most savage conventional war of the past 60 years was the Iran-Iraq conflict, a decade of bloodletting between Iran's majority Shi'a population and (formerly) Sunni-dominated Iraq. It was a replay of Islam's 7th-century tribal clashes, with modern weapons and mass armies. Millions perished or suffered crippling wounds. And every available weapon, including poison gas, was used enthusiastically.
Humans may hate a distant enemy in theory, but we're likelier to kill our neighbors.
An Iranian nuclear threat to the United States comes in at a distant third place behind the danger to Israel and the possibility of an intra-Muslim conflict of apocalyptic proportions. (Does anybody really think that luxury condos in Dubai are a good investment? Well, here's a toast to their "glowing" future as the mullahs nuke the Middle East's Las Vegas wannabe.)
Of course, we cannot dismiss the nuclear danger to our deployed forces or from a Tehran-backed terrorist strike on our homeland. But we may be exaggerating our importance to our sworn enemies.
If all politics are local, so are most wars. The advent of nuclear weapons in the Middle East just may coincide with the due-date for a devastating Shi'a-Sunni confrontation. In one of reality's bizarre twists that intelligence agencies never forecast, we may see Sunni Arab states begging Israel for a wartime alliance.
With all of these rising dangers between the Red Sea and the Indus, the United States long remained willfully blind to the roots of nuclear development in the region. The Iranians worried us but we essentially gave our "allies" a pass.
The Pakistani bomb was funded by Saudi Arabia as a Sunni bomb. We had no end of evidence, but Clinton-era apparatchiks refused to face the embarrassing facts.
On the eve of Pakistan's first nuclear detonation, Islamabad's leading luxury hotel filled with Saudis. On the day of the blast, the phone lines (in those days before cells) lit up from the test site back to the hotel, then from the hotel to Riyadh. According to one well-placed American witness, the information was suppressed.
Now Sunni Muslims have their bomb, the Shi'a are determined to have theirs, and the truly horrific religious war in the coming years may not be between terrorists or murderous Islamist governments and the West, but between Muslims. The sectarian hatreds within Islam (as well as between the Persian and Arab civilizations) pre-date any resentments toward the United States by many centuries.
It should surprise no one that the great bloodlettings of the 21st century will be over religion. The shock may be over which masses of believers slaughter each other.
-------------------- "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
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posted
Perhaps our rage is an uneccesary addition to the equation.
quote:Originally posted by rimasco: you guys are waisting your time trying to figure out a culture that is bent on destruction of all religions. Even different sectors of there own. Sunni, kurd- Shia, Shiite....They would be killing eachother if they didnt have Israel to focus their rage on... here this article says it best
-------------------- "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
posted
It was largely humanitarian in nature because back then, we didn't get involved, the Holocaust was the result of our non-involvement.
AM I MY BROTHER'S KEEPER????
Why was this the first question posed by a human to God? To hide a murder.
You think we should have stepped in after the fourth country he conquered or the fifth?
I don't recall the US ever stepping in other than verbally to protect Israel, since her rebirth. It is and has aways been implied that we will. We have pushed her into peace treaty after peace treaty, asking her to give up more and more of her land in these talks, nothing ever satisfies. Not even the Gaza strip.
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What about the the weapons, vast sums of money, foreign policy and media support?
A good example of the latter is the crushed (no pun intended) investigation into the Gaza death of US Peace Activist Rachel Corrie at the hands of the Israeli military.
(There are hundreds more examples, but that one springs readily to mind.)
posted
I think we all need to go read or re-read The Prince.
The only way to keep America the way it is and to keep peace and freedom for Americans is to elimate our enemies before they can eliminate us.
What the US really needs to do is withdraw itself from the sham of an organization the UN is and create its own coalition of countries. A coalition of countries that value freedom and wont back down and have weak stances.
We also need to say **** oil, because once we find something better than oil, we can tell the middle east to eff off. Their only source of revenue will go down the drain. Its hard to buy weapons and finance terrorism when your country doesnt produce anything.
-------------------- *I'm not a financial expert or advisor, everything stated is my opinion*
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Ive been saying this for years (f*ck oil). Exxon and other conglomerates wont let it happen. Why are these companies pulling in record profits (Exxon Mobil posts record 4Q profit of $10.7 billion) - Earnings while the avg joe can barely afford to drive to work and feed his family? And that was net profits for ONE QUATER! Why was microsoft attacked the way it was but not Big oil? It appears to me that the gouging starts right at the the supplier and then everybody else along the line. The people of this country have gone soft, and we're all gettin shaken down because of it!
-------------------- "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
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you guys are waisting your time trying to figure out a culture that is bent on destruction of all religions. Even different sectors of there own. Sunni, kurd- Shia, Shiite....They would be killing eachother if they didnt have Israel to focus their rage on... here this article says it best
this is what i've been trying to explain here for a couple years....
these people don't even care about money...
they are in love with fighting and dying....
if you let them? they will suck you into this too...
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil, Aphorism 146
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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I cant even count the number of articles I read about Hezbolah getting saved by the bell again and again. This is one of the reasons why Israel responded the way it did.....makes alot more sense now
-------------------- "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
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------------------------------------------------- New York nun hailed a cab, got in and told the driver to take her to West 79th Street. As they rode uptown, she noticed that the driver kept staring at her in his rearview mirror. Finally, she asked him why he was staring. "There's something I want to ask you," said the cabbie, "but I don't want to offend you." "My dear son," said the sister, "when you've been a nun for as long as I have, you've seen and heard just about everything. There's nothing you can say that will offend me." "Well," began the cabbie cautiously, "all my life I've had this fantasy about being kissed by a nun." "Maybe we can do something about that," the nun said, "provided you are single -- and Roman Catholic." "I'm single!" replied the driver excitedly. "And I'm Catholic too!" "Okay," said the nun. "Pull into the next alley." The cabbie wasted no time in finding an alley, stopping the car and jumping into the back seat, where the nun proceeded to fulfill his lifelong fantasy. After they got back into traffic, the driver began to cry. "My dear child," said the nun tenderly, "why are you crying?" "Forgive me, sister," he said. "I took advantage of your good nature when I told you I was single and Catholic. "I'm really married and Jewish." "That's all right," replied the nun. "My name is really Bruce, and I'm on my way to a Halloween party."
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usa may have waited to enter wwII until the other major beat each other up so that they could come in later abd take over the world cuz everyone else was too weak, however, stalin was still too powerful and took over part of europe hence the cold war. btw the world's leaders don't seem to care how many sheep get killed as long as they achieve their objectives.
-------------------- I'm from Missouri - Show Me!
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quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: I'm only half Jewish so I'm all set there. Thanks for your concern. LOL
quote:Originally posted by MagicK: Didn't your ancestors give us the fate of humanity?
Why the need to qualify yourself now? Only half? Do you think that'll save you? Ya know those friends that find this thread and those on it so amusing? Well they'll be the first ones to turn your 1/2 jewish self in.
Yes, Israel does have blood on its hands and that is because of the need to fight for their survival. Jews make up 1/4 of 1% of the entire world population. The world loves to hate the jews. Media coverage is always pro-Arab. Poor things.
Its like the old jewish joke responding to what the jewish holidays are about: they tried to kill us, we survived.
I only hope the time doesn't come when you have to kiss the earth in Israel for their fighting to exist to one day be able to save your 1/2 sorry jewish ass.
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quote:Originally posted by MagicK: Media support, I don't see it, just watch recent news commentary, they are not pro Israel.
Well GB I guess you find that humorous.
Here's what I find humorous, I watch Fox News and other devoted news channels and find them borderline anti-semitic, you watch 'em and find them pro Israel, the funny part is your half Jewish, and I'm not Jewish at all.
Go figure.
All I ever hear every time Israel has ever reacted (and not just this time) is disproportionate force, disproportionate force, disproportionate force. Should America restrain Israel? Is Israel over-reacting? What they on a leash? Go get 'em I say, every last one.
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you know? i've read that a couple times now, and i'm still not sure if it's an anti-semitic statement or not![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
