Israeli troops move into Gaza to retrieve kidnapped soldier
JERUSALEM (CNN) -- Israeli troops crossed the border into southern Gaza early Wednesday in a campaign meant to secure the return of a soldier kidnapped by Palestinian militants over the weekend, the Israeli military said.
Jets hit a power plant in Gaza City and knocked out a bridge connecting the northern and southern parts of town in predawn airstrikes, witnesses said.
Video from the Palestinian Ramattan news agency showed fires burning at the site of the power station. (Watch scenes of Gaza damage as tanks roll -- 2:07)
Israeli troops and tanks had gathered along the Gaza border as tensions mounted over the abduction of 19-year-old Cpl. Gilad Shalit.
Prime Minister Ehud Olmert on Tuesday threatened an "extended campaign" against Palestinian leaders unless the soldier was released.
"All targets" would be considered for possible action, Olmert told Israel's parliament, the day after ruling out any deals with militants for Shalit's release.
"We would not make compromises with terror. We would not hold negotiation with [terror]," Olmert told the Knesset amid the escalating crisis.
"No terrorist would be immune."
In the first round of strikes soon after midnight, Israeli aircraft hit two bridges in central Gaza to limit the ability of Shalit's captors to move him, said Capt. Jacob Dallal, a spokesman for the Israel Defense Forces.
Dallal said Israel will go to "whatever lengths necessary" to bring Shalit back.
"We are trying to make it clear to the Palestinian Authority and to the terror organizations that we will take the necessary steps to secure his safe return," he said.
Israel has slapped a land and sea blockade on Gaza, cutting off people's movements and shipments of fuel and food, nine months after returning control of the territory to the Palestinians.
Inside Gaza, Palestinians have dumped piles of sand on major roads, intended to slow any advance of Israeli tanks and armor and provide cover for gunmen. (Watch Palestinians express defiance as tensions rise -- 2:34)
Israel says it is holding the Palestinian Authority responsible for the safety of Shalit, who was captured Sunday by Palestinian militants at a guard post inside Israel.
Olmert said he did not want to hurt innocents, but the Israeli defense minister said the potential offensive would be deadly.
"There is no doubt we will have to carry out an operation which could cost many lives, but the Palestinian groups have to understand there is a price to pay for any attacks against Israel," said Defense Minister Amir Peretz.
Israeli leaders said Hamas officials, including political leader Khaled Meshaal, who is in exile in Syria, could be targets of Israeli military action.
Aides said Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniya were directly involved in negotiations to free Shalit.
The Palestinian factions Fatah, headed by Abbas, and Haniya's Hamas, have pleaded with Israel to hold off on military action, saying an offensive would only complicate efforts to end the crisis.
Palestinian leaders have also said they fear Israel will not stop at freeing Shalit but will also go after Palestinian militants who have fired hundreds of crude Qassam rockets into Israel in recent months.
Israeli Deputy Prime Minister Shimon Peres recognized a split between the politicians and the militants, saying Meshaal was behind the kidnapping and "wants to destroy any chance for peace." (Watch Peres' take on the escalating border tensions -- 6:27)
"All this was done against, maybe, the better judgment of the Palestinian leaders on the ground. The orders came from Syria. They came from a gentleman who wants to destroy any chance for peace," Peres said.
Meshaal, the head of the Hamas political office, lives in exile in Damascus.
"A small group of terrible people sitting in Damascus," Peres said, was mobilizing "the whole world against the Palestinians," who he said were the real victims of the kidnapping.
Peres said Israel believes that Shalit, who holds dual Israeli-French citizenship, is "alive and healthy." Another teenager reported missing
In another development, the Popular Resistance Committees, one of the Palestinian militant groups that says it is holding Shalit, said it also was holding an Israeli settler in the West Bank.
Israeli police said a family in the settlement of Itamar near Nablus had filed a missing persons report. The missing settler was identified as Eliyahu Asheri, 18.
He was last seen Sunday night at the French Hill hitchhiking post in Jerusalem, on the road leading north to the West Bank. His parents reported him missing at noon Monday.
CNN's Elise Labott and John Vause contributed to this report.
Posted by glassman on :
i think the Palestinians are fools...
the markets may get volatile if this goes on long...
the Israelis have no choice tho... one overlooked kidnapping leads to more....
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
I think.... Just maybe... this is the begining... Maybe
Posted by Mr. Lava on :
The Palestinians are fools, indeed. They know all too well what happens when they mess with the Hebrews. The IDF is incredibly advanced and skilled. The Palestinians are no match for Israel. Only a nuke nation is a match for the Hebrews. Besides, the Palestinians are hated and despised amongst many Arab nations. They have been called "dogs," which is strong language in the Muslim culture.
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
ahhh.. but an excuse to take out Israel they are for the muslim world.. as is this an excuse for Russia and China to get rid of us.. atleast it will be before the end.
Posted by Mr. Lava on :
Having you been watching those "Left Behind" movies with Kirk Cameron again?
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
Kirk Cameron still acts?...
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
GAZA (Reuters) - A spokesman for gunmen in the Gaza Strip said they had fired a rocket tipped with a chemical warhead at Israel early on Thursday.
The Israeli army had no immediate comment on the claim by the spokesman from the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, an armed wing of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas's Fatah movement.
The group had recently claimed to possess about 20 biological warheads for the makeshift rockets commonly fired from Gaza at Israeli towns. This was the first time the group had claimed firing such a rocket.
"The al-Aqsa Brigades have fired one rocket with a chemical warhead" at southern Israel, Abu Qusai, a spokesman for the group, said in Gaza.
An Israeli military spokeswoman said the army had not detected that any such rocket was fired, nor was there any report of such a weapon hitting Israel.
Sigh...get used to this. It isn't going to stop anytime soon.
Posted by rimasco on :
Palestinians wouldnt know what to do with peace. To them its boring and it might force them to go out and get jobs.
As for the Israeli's im growing a little tired of them is well. Its no secret that they were flying the American flag for years during alot of their skirmishes and the seizing of land. And the comments Netenyaho made right after 9/11 says it all(Its a good thing)
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
still not over.. Hamas says they will negotiate for the soldier's life.. they want all prisoners freed.. namely all women and all the hamas officials detained yesterday by Israel.. Israel has stated that is not an option...
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
CAIRO, Egypt (AP) -- Anger flared across the Middle East on Thursday over Israel's assault on the Gaza Strip, and Arab governments were assailed for not aiding Palestinians. The Egyptian government's top rival, the outlawed Muslim Brotherhood, urged Egyptians to gather at pro-Palestinian demonstrations Friday, the day of weekly Islamic prayers.
The Israeli offensive put the governments of U.S.-allied Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia in a bind.
They have been cold to the new Hamas government, having done little to help amid the West's financial boycott to pressure Palestinians into moderating their positions on Israel. That has resulted in many Arabs feeling their governments are leaving the Palestinians in the lurch.
The leader of the Muslim Brotherhood accused Arab leaders of being impotent.
"We haven't heard even a whisper from you," Mohammed Mahdi Akef said. "You can't provide medicine and milk and the necessities of life to our besieged people in Palestine .... You take a hesitant stance toward their freely elected government, fearing the spread of the virus of freedom to your own fertile pastures."
Akef called on Arabs and other Muslims to "express your anger over what is happening, make the thunder of your voices heard ... using the peaceful means that are at your disposal."
The Brotherhood called for protests in Cairo and other Egyptian cities after Friday prayers. Past protests organized by the group have erupted into clashes with security forces.
In Jordan's capital, Amman, some 50 people held a sit-in protest, holding banners reading: "Wake up Arab nation! Save the babies, the old men, the land and our honor." Jordanian columnist Taher Adwan accused the Israelis of being "criminals and killers."
"What is frustrating is that the world, under U.S. pressures and bribes, has put them above the law," he wrote in the independent newspaper Al-Arab Al-Yawm.
The head of an alliance of Persian Gulf countries - some of which have taken quiet steps toward economic ties with Israel - called the Israeli offensive "barbaric."
"This dangerous escalation against the Palestinian people is a war against innocent civilians, women, children and the elderly that has left Gaza without water and electricity," Abdel Rahman Attiye, secretary-general of the Gulf Cooperation Council, said in a statement issued on behalf of the group's six member countries.
An emergency session of the 22-member Arab League in Cairo urged Arab nations to provide "urgent support" for the Palestinians.
But Abdul Khaleq Abdulla, a political scientist at United Arab Emirates University, said, "There's absolutely nothing the Arab world can do. The Palestinians are left alone to go through all this by themselves."
Egyptian officials urged the Syrian-based political leader of the Palestinian militant group Hamas, Khaled Mashaal, to obtain the release of an Israeli soldier whose abduction set off the confrontation.
An aide to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said both Abbas and Egyptian officials called Syrian President Bashar Assad to ask him to persuade Mashaal to order the soldier's release. Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak spoke with Abbas on Thursday, Egypt's state news agency said.
Mashaal, meanwhile, sought help from Arab leaders to stop Israel's incursion, a statement from his office said.
"This situation demands that Arab officials and the international community take a tough stance," Mashaal's top aide, Moussa Abu Marzouk, told Al-Jazeera television. "They should pressure Israel to withdraw from the middle of cities and stop shelling civilians."
it's funny how the Israelis are supposed to overlook constant rocket attacks and ambushes isn't it?
Posted by glassman on :
Newspaper: Arab hackers shut down Israeli Web sites after Israel invades Gaza
June 30, 2006 - 8:20AM
Pro-Palestinian hackers shut down Israeli Internet Web sites as Israeli troops invaded southern Gaza after the abduction of an Israeli soldier, an Israeli newspaper reported Thursday.
The Jerusalem Post reported that about 700 Web sites were shut down in the campaign. Their home pages were replaced by the message, "Hacked by Team-Evil Arab hackers u KILL palestin people we KILL Israeli servers. By early Friday, all the Web sites mentioned in the newspaper article were back in service. The report could not be independently confirmed.
Among the sites mentioned in the newspaper report were Israel's largest bank, Bank Hapoalim, as well as a hospital in Haifa, BMW Israel, Subaru Israel and Citroen Israel.
been expecting more of this...
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: it's funny how the Israelis are supposed to overlook constant rocket attacks and ambushes isn't it?
I'm actually kind of shocked they were rather unimpressed about Hamas launching a missle at them tipped with chemical weapons.. I'm sure the chemical was primitive.. surely not sarin or anything like that.. might not even have been mustard gas.. maybe just mustard.. But still..
Posted by glassman on :
quite frankly? this is just another example of how stupid the idea is that "spreading democracy" will fix our problems in the mideast....
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
The whole spreading democracy thing is a game we are playing.. realistically what we are doing is setting up the chess board for the fight which is coming. When this thing does blow up... and it is going to happen... we want to be everywhere at once.
Posted by glassman on :
you may be correct DQR, i've always been skeptical that this situation was going to be peaceful and short...
i was seeing it more as a way for our corporations to get into these countries... i was dumbfounded when the Iraqi oil was nationalised...
i guess the oil co's wanted to deal with a few politicians instead of business men?
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
It will be peacefull once the radiation dissipates... That reminds me,glass, I've been meaning to ask you about global wind patterns with respect to.. ohhh.. say a nuclear war.. any idea?
Posted by glassman on :
nukes aren't an option... they are there as a last resort...
Al-Jazeera headlines are claiming that Israel has "rejected" a deal...
these jerks at aljezeera have been learning too much from rove...
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
glass, WW3 starts in Israel.. just like this.. It's going nuclear.. maybe not today.. or even this year.. but it will.
Posted by Sunnyside on :
DQR, any thought to who may emerge as the peacemaker? That will be the next sign, yes?
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
Beats me.. euro-something I would guess. I don't believe in the prophecies about this whole thing.. I do believe this is a self fullfilling prophecy though.
Posted by glassman on :
I do believe this is a self fullfilling prophecy though.
whew, you had me worried there again DQ...
i agree that the prophecies get fulfilled because people want them to...
why would we need nukes? they don't solve any of our problems other than eliminating the whole region... that just creates another set of problems like the mess, and loss of oil...
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
We'll need nukes once this all expands into surrounding countries.... Iran gets involved.. Syria... the list goes on and on as soon as they go crazy over the evil zionists persecuting their brethren... Iran signed or is about to sign a war pact with China and Russia.. there's your nuclear war right there.
Posted by Sunnyside on :
Used to kid my friend about standing on the corner with the proverbial "The End is Near" sign. But... self-fulfilling or not, its does appear to be headed in that direction.
OT: not only you're and your but loose and lose. lol
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
oh yeah..lol..loose and lose are killers My spelling is decreasing as I age but.. damn.. retain the basics folks..lol
Posted by T e x on :
SS reads closely...
Posted by rimasco on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: quite frankly? this is just another example of how stupid the idea is that "spreading democracy" will fix our problems in the mideast....
I agree...maybe we should just try spreading radicalism thats all its doing anyway. Except skew it a little with some Mr.Rogers like Clerks
People gotta take a step back and realize what we're trying to do. Us trying to force-feed democracy to the mid east is the same as them coming in here (with their military) and trying to install Islam. Plain and simple. We're trying to make them go agaisnt what has become their religion.
As for the Israeli soldier the Palestinian terrorist group Hamas "kidnapped". Well lets change the wording to how the Palestinians see it. "The Palestinian "ARMY" Hamas has captured an Israeli soldier and is holding him as a POW.
What people are failing to realize is these "terrorists" (as we call them) are there soldiers. Does a uniform make a differance? If an Israeli soldier got fed up one day and took a granade and ran into a crowd of Palestians would the papers say an "Iraeli terrorist"? I dont think so.... This is a war of words as well dont be fooled by labels used to justify certain actions!
Posted by rimasco on :
Better yet were the Palestinians represented at the last Geneva convention? Do they know how they're "supposed" to play?
Posted by glassman on :
you haven't read the background on the attack..
The raid, which used a secret tunnel bored from inside Gaza to 300m (980ft) beyond the Israeli fence that seals off the Palestinian strip, also left two Palestinian fighters dead. It triggered a brief Israeli incursion into the strip.
this was a big operation...
your point about changing some wording is a good point... there have been a lot of cultural mistakes made...
unfortunateley? Bush only seems to be at his ease at a Texas BBQ... his notion of foreign policy is how to deal with hiring all the illegal immigrants he can recruit...
Posted by rimasco on :
Whether people realize it or not the Palestians are still at war and have been since 1947. The Palestians are just to embarassed to admit this is all thery're capable of as far as "Bringing it"
whats the differance? OOOHHHHH they didnt declare war! Which would lead to hundreds of thousands of them getting slaughtered......LEGALLY!! according to the Geneva convention........i have to laugh LOL! sick place we live in...i forget who said this but it went something like "the human beings natural state is to be at war at all times"
sound accurate? look around!
WE'RE FRIGGEN ARMY ANTS!!!!
Posted by bdgee on :
"his notion of foreign policy is how to deal with hiring all the illeagl immigrants he can recruit..."
For god's sake, don't stop at foreign policy.
dubya's notion of dealing with anything is to threaten and accuse people (or newspapers).
Diplomacy was one or two steps up the spelling bee like progression beyond what his born rich and left ignorant New England privileged upbringing could muster.
Cheer leaders don't have to "hold the line", they get to yell it at the real players with no chance of injury to either their physical or egotistical being.
Posted by glassman on :
that's right, dubya is a carpetbagger too isn't he?
he's in Memphis today..
Posted by rimasco on :
I for one am sick of the Republicans and the Democraps alike. The last couple of elections it always seems like the guy in between i favor most. But im hesitant to waste a vote like i did on Perot. How come the independant party has no voice? Im sick of this left/right crap.... all these friggen crooks with their egos and agendas!!!!!im swinging back to the middle
Posted by Dustoff101 on :
Haven't heard "carpetbagger" in a long time, let alone read it. LOL
Posted by Dustoff101 on :
rimsco, middle ? Tried that, felt like a slug sandwhich.
Posted by bdgee on :
Yes. The only school he ever attended that wasn't a private New England one that provided "gentlemen's grades" (if you don't know what that is, two fact are implied: 1. you ain't ever getting one and 2. you never served time in academia) was The University of Texas Law School, which initially rejected his application because of his poor academic credentials and then allowed him in only when the representatives from the goon squad were sent from Washington with promises and suggestions of what would come to pass otherwise.
Once in the Law School, dubya did indeed distinguish himself academically as the only student ever to be flunked out before reaching the halfway point of his first semester.
We are not talking of someone with any noticable or subtle form of intellect, but with every form of lack of tact, grace, fair play, and honesty.
Posted by glassman on :
yeah but he's got a good down home TV persona... hyuckhyuck Posted by rimasco on :
Enough of the Bush bashing.....its like beatin up on a 5yr old quadrapelegic with down syndrom
its a waste of time
Posted by glassman on :
twue.... but you you started it nah.... Posted by glassman on :
this is being reported out of Australia:
Israel warns: free soldier or PM dies Middle East correspondent Martin Chulov July 01, 2006 ISRAEL last night threatened to assassinate Palestinian Prime Minister Ismael Haniyeh if Hamas militants did not release a captured Israeli soldier unharmed.
Glass check it out.. i translated into Palestinian
quote:Originally posted by glassman: this is being reported out of Australia:
Israel terrorists group warns: free militant or PM dies Middle East correspondent Martin Chulov July 01, 2006 ISRAELI terrorists last night threatened to assassinate Palestinian Prime Minister Ismael Haniyeh if Hamas military did not release a captured Israeli militant unharmed.
Isnt it illegal to assassinate the leader of another ummmm errrrr uhhhhhh BOROUGH?!
Posted by glassman on :
especially if he's elected?
who cares?
Pepper MadorSad: Mikey got with Sharon, Sharon got Sheriee She was sharin' Sharon's outlook on the topic of disease Mikey had a facial scar and Bobby was a racist They were all in love dying they were doin' it in Texas Tommy played piano like a kid out in the rain then he lost his leg in Dallas he was dancin' with the train They were all in love with dying they were drinkin' from a fountian That is pouring like an avalance coming down the mountian I don't mind the sun sometimes the images it shows I can taste you on my lips and smell you in my clothes Cinnamon and sugary and softly spoken lies You never know just how you look through other people's eyes Some will die in hot pursuit and firey auto crashes Some will die in hot pursuit while sifting through my ashes Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountian That is pouring like and avalance coming down the mountian I don't mind the sun sometimes the images it shows I can taste you on my lips and smell you in my clothes Cinnamon and sugary and softly spoken lies You never know just how you look through other people's eyes Another Mikey took a knife while arguing in traffic Flipper died a natural death he caught a nasty virus Then there was the ever-present football player rapist they were all in love with dying they were doin' it in Texas Holly caught a bullet but it only hit his leg While it should have been a better shot he got him in the head They were all in love with dying they were drinkin' from a fountian That was pouring like an avalance coming down the mountian I don't mind the sun sometimes the images it shows I can taste you on my lips and smell you in my clothes Cinnamon and sugary and softly spoken lies You never know just how you look through other people's eyes
war is spelled KILL
Posted by rimasco on :
My point was, there breaking the "rules" as we like to call them
kinda like we did
Posted by rimasco on :
I agree with you....if there werent any rules maybe people would be less likely to resort to it
Posted by glassman on :
i don't see the Israeli's as the problem in the mideast...
i see the Palestinains as the problem...
i'm tired of these losers trying to make martyrs out of themselves...they've been given plnety of opportunities get their chit together, and they refuse to.... HAMAS? they are terroists... and they are in charge of their country now...
the war on terror is getting stale....
why? because the stupid buthole politicians are using it as an excuse to run roughshod over the American people....
you wanna know what i really think? we are fighting a few thousand people, and hundreds of millions of US are paying way too much...
cost benefit analysis?
we are getting ripped off in the war on terror...
Posted by rimasco on :
Good point....but dont forget that we are in this situation because of the israeli's.... just like they wanted
Posted by glassman on :
we choose to suport the Israelis for valid reasons....
why is Islam so deadset on destroying Israel? it might be racism? eh?
Islamist countries do not share our views on religious freedom... they probably never will...
Posted by rimasco on :
Yeah because they're the only democracy in the middle east...could that be considered reverse racism? eh? supporting the iraeli's simply cause they hold elections? Didnt Palestine hold elections? Oh thats right it blew up in everybodys face! Kinda like one of there refugees!
theres two sides to every story...and from now on im on neither one!
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
Israel's Gaza incursion just a big show? Aaron Klein says PM Olmert afraid to order any significant operation
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted: June 29, 2006 6:26 p.m. Eastern
In actuality, the Jewish state's response in Gaza thus far has been mostly a show. Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has every reason politically to ensure things don't escalate. Whether they do at this point is largely up to Hamas and the group's Iranian and Syrian backers.
Some Israeli ground troops entered the southern Gaza Strip but have not been authorized to conduct any operations there other than to remain on the ground. The Israeli Air Force conducted a few surgical strikes of empty training camps and a bridge. Artillery was fired today at vacated sections of northern and southern Gaza, with one round hitting an electric facility. The artillery fire was in response to Palestinian rocket attacks today on Jewish communities near the Gaza border.
Troops may soon make their way into northern Gaza, but defense officials say these units, too, are not authorized to do very much. The incursion to the north has been delayed reportedly due to diplomatic movement regarding the hostage situation. Should the IDF enter the north, heavy Palestinian resistance is widely expected. The areas there are ripe with terror cells. Terrorist leaders already announced they have placed booby traps "and other surprises" all along the northern routes.
Israel's operation in Gaza currently is aimed at pressuring the Hamas government to release the kidnapped soldier, 19-year old French-Israeli citizen Gilad Shalit, and at sealing off the Gaza Strip to ensure Shalit is not transported to the bordering Egyptian Sinai desert, which is saturated with al-Qaida linked terror cells sympathetic to the Palestinian ploy.
The IDF maintains Shalit is being held in Khan Yunis, an overpopulated city in the central-to-southern Gaza Strip. Defense Minister Amir Peretz has warned if the Israeli captive is not released, a major assault may be launched against Khan Yunis, possibly including house-to-house searches in certain areas.
Defense officials for months have been petitioning Olmert to authorize a large-scale operation in Gaza to help stop the Palestinian rockets regularly fired from the territory aimed at nearby Jewish communities. Since Israel evacuated the Strip last August, more than 800 rockets have been launched by Palestinians. An average of 40 rockets per week were fired the past month at Sderot, an pre-1967 Israeli town about three miles from Gaza.
Olmert has restricted the Israeli army thus far to responding to rocket fire with aerial and artillery bombardments of Qassam launch sites, but the actions have failed to stop or even stem the flow of Qassam attacks. Instead, the terrorists simply have moved their rocket-firing sites from peripheral areas in Gaza to heavily populated Gaza towns, prompting some of the recent Israeli retaliation to cause Palestinian civilian casualties.
Senior defense leaders hope to use the current Israeli ground incursion into Gaza to cleanse hot zones there of terror cells and Qassam missile factories.
But an Israeli escalation in Gaza is unlikely. It doesn't fit Olmert's political objectives.
His Kadima party won elections last March by a slim plurality campaigning on the platform of enforcing an Israeli withdrawal from Judea and Samaria, which Olmert says will enhance Israel's security by separating from the Palestinians.
Kadima's founder, former Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, ten months ago evacuated Gaza also promising enhanced security.
Since the Gaza withdrawal was carried out, rockets have been flying, Hamas has been elected to power and both Israeli and Palestinian officials have stated al-Qaida has infiltrated the territory. Neighboring Egypt recently announced the terrorists who carried out April's deadly triple-bomb blasts in the Sinai resort town of Dahab trained for the operation in the Gaza Strip with local Palestinians. It said Israel's withdrawal has been threatening Egyptian security.
Military and political leaders, including senior Gaza commanders, Kadima government cabinet members and former defense ministers have been calling on Israel to reoccupy parts of Gaza to stop the Qassam firings.
The final blow to the Kadima claim of the Gaza withdrawal enhancing Israel's security would be delivered if the IDF is ordered to conduct a major operation inside the territory. Olmert realizes this and is for now loathe to authorize much more than the current blockade of Gaza's borders.
A terror threat that must be met with military force in Gaza would highlight the security risks of Olmert's proposed evacuation of most of Judea and Samaria – mountainous terrain within rocket firing range of Jerusalem, Tel Aviv and the country's international airport.
Also, Sharon told the Israeli public that the international community would support anti-terror operations in Gaza if the Palestinians dared to use areas vacated by Israel to stage attacks.
Olmert repeatedly has stated a withdrawal in Judea and Samaria would be met with similar international understanding regarding the necessity of Israeli operations there, should the Palestinians use vacated territory to attack.
But as WND reported today, the international community the past 48-hours has almost unanimously called on Israel to retreat from Gaza. This while ground troops in Gaza have not even conducted any sort of operation other than to enter the territory. If Olmert orders a major Gaza attack and the international community balks, the Israeli public will take note and may be reluctant to support a Judea and Samaria withdrawal.
Already Olmert's poll numbers are down. A survey conducted last week found 70 percent of Israelis now oppose a Judea and Samaria withdrawal and most here who supported last summer's evacuation of the Gaza Strip now say it was a bad idea. Another poll commissioned by the Haaretz newspaper and released two weeks ago found only 35 percent of the Israeli public is pleased with Olmert's performance as prime minister. Israeli leaders typically enjoy wide public support in the early stages of their terms.
Olmert also needs to contend with regional issues. Violence in Gaza could prompt street protests across the Muslim world. The Muslim Brotherhood, the largest Egyptian opposition group, already has threatened riots in Egypt and Jordan unless Israel leaves Gaza.
Olmert, though, may have no choice but to authorize soon the IDF to act in some larger capacity. It all depends on Hamas. If Shalit is killed, the Israeli public will demand retribution. If Palestinian groups attack IDF troops already in Gaza, the military will need to respond.
Islamic Jihad and the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades terror organizations also have threatened to carry out suicide attacks inside Israel unless the ground troops retreat. Such attacks would easily complicate matters.
As well, Israel is on high alert along its northern border with Lebanon, where Hezbollah guerillas are stationed with more than10,000 short and medium range missiles pointed at Israeli towns. There is fear primary Hezbollah backers Syria and Iran will attempt to escalate the conflict by drawing Israel into border clashes.
Syria and Iran – the largest sponsors of Hamas – are keys to Hamas actions. Both seek to use Israeli-Palestinian violence to distract from mounting international pressures against their respective regimes. The G8 summit is soon set to focus on Iran. A war in Gaza could dominate summit discussions instead. Iran and Syria both need Gaza violence.
In fact Israeli security officials earlier this week told WorldNetDaily they have information the terrorists who carried out the Hamas raid and Shalit kidnapping were trained by Iranian Revolutionary Guard units and Hezbollah guerillas. The information comes in part from a Hamas terrorist allegedly involved in the plot who was arrested by Israeli forces in Gaza the day before the kidnapping.
Overall Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal, who is thought to have ordered Sunday's Hamas attack that started the whole ordeal, resides in Syria and is said to be subordinate to the Damascus and Tehran regimes. Diplomatic mediators involved in efforts to free Shalit told reporters it is Meshaal's reluctance that has been the main obstacle. Meshaal could order a Hamas escalation, which would demand an Israeli response.
Meanwhile, here at Nahal Oz, the main military station that borders Gaza, troops say they want to be put to work. Thousands of Israeli soldiers, mostly from two elite IDF brigades, were bused here two days ago and have been ordered to stand ready for a ground invasion.
"We want to go get Shalit already," said one soldier.
A senior commander involved in operational planning told WND, "Everyone is waiting to see if Olmert will order what must be done."
He said it was Israel's failure to respond forcefully to the Palestinian rocket attacks from Gaza the past 10 months that led to Sunday's Hamas operation.
"Since August, the rockets have been regularly fired and attacks have been staged from Gaza," said the official, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to talk to the media.
"The defense establishment has been calling for a harsh response, but not much has been ordered aside from surgical strikes. It was the loss of Israeli deterrence that emboldened the terror groups to perform their daring operation this week. Deterrence must be restored."
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
Gaza militants demand 1,000 prisoners for Israeli Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:38 PM ET
By Nidal al-Mughrabi
GAZA (Reuters) - Palestinian militant factions who captured an Israeli soldier demanded on Saturday that Israel free 1,000 prisoners from its jails and end an assault on Gaza launched to win the soldier's release.
A statement from the groups -- the second since Corporal Gilad Shalit was captured in a raid across Gaza's frontier on Sunday -- appeared to cast doubt on the hopes of mediators that diplomacy could soon get him free.
Israel has said repeatedly that it will not consider releasing prisoners in exchange for the 19-year-old tank gunner. Israeli officials were not available for comment.
"We are declaring to the public our just and humanitarian demands," said the statement faxed to news agencies by the armed wing of the governing Hamas Islamist group, the Popular Resistance Committees and Army of Islam.
It repeated an earlier call to free women prisoners and minors in exchange for information on Shalit -- the group has not said if he is dead or alive -- but also demanded the release of 1,000 "Palestinian, Arab and Muslim prisoners."
It said these would have to include all Palestinian faction leaders as well as humanitarian cases.
"Military Statement Number Two" did not specify that this would be in exchange for Shalit's release. Abu Ubaida, a spokesman for the Hamas armed wing, said that was what it meant.
The crisis has sent Israeli-Palestinian relations to new lows and piled more pressure on the Hamas Islamist government, already straining under a U.S.-led aid embargo to get it to renounce violence and drop its vow to destroy Israel.
Appearing to cast doubt on prospects for mediation, the statement insisted that Israel "end all aggression" in the occupied West Bank as well its operations in Gaza.
"The escalation and arrogance mean the enemy will be responsible for the bad consequences," it said. There was no specific threat to Shalit.
OFFENSIVE ON HOLD
Israeli aircraft fired missiles at training camps for militants early on Saturday, but the Jewish state kept on hold a threatened ground assault into northern Gaza. Diplomats said that was partly to give Egyptian-led mediation a chance.
Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas demanded an end to the Israeli offensive on Friday and said it was complicating efforts to end the standoff.
He said he was working to end the crisis together with the Egyptians and President Mahmoud Abbas, a moderate.
Diplomats said Egypt was trying to get Syria to lean on Damascus-based Hamas leaders with greater sway over the armed wing than Haniyeh.
Israel says it is not playing any role in the mediation and has rejected the possibility of freeing some of its thousands of Palestinian prisoners in an exchange similar to past deals it has made with Lebanese and Palestinian guerrillas.
Israeli tanks entered the southern Gaza Strip this week in the biggest push into the territory since Israel pulled out troops and settlers last year after 38 years of occupation.
Air strikes have targeted roads, bridges, areas used to fire rockets and the Interior Ministry offices. Two militants have been killed. The army said they were members of squads trying to fire rockets into Israel.
The Palestinians urged the U.N. Security Council on Friday to press Israel to quickly end its offensive, but the United States said Syria and Iran must first end their role as "state sponsors of terror" and condemn Hamas militants.
Posted by LEO on :
Nice Butth0le Surfers quote Glass.
Posted by glassman on :
yur welcome Leo....seemed aproppriate at the time..
if these guys are so in love with dyin? maybe it's time somebody made 'em happy for a change...
they are obviously pretty miserable right now...
Posted by LEO on :
A man who I hold a lot of respect for once surprised me by saying, "Nuke 'em all and let God sort 'em out."
Posted by glassman on :
i've never been anti-war, i just don't care much for being lied to like we have been...esp by a guy i voted for.....
yeah yeah, i know Bush was tricked too.... sheesh he's suppposed to be the one that makes sure everybody he hires is doing their job RIGHT, not covering up for them or making them cover up for him...
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
Yep, he's turned out to be a sham as far as being "conservative" or even mildly right winged. He should have been honest about Iraq.. there was a bit of the WMD's for a reason to go there.. it was mostly strategic and he should have said that from the begining.
Posted by LEO on :
I just want to know, where's my damned cheap Iraqi gas?
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
That was a lie the liberals forwarded... They were quite vocal that Iraq was all about the oil.. bla bla.. yet again they were missing the point.
Posted by glassman on :
comeon relelentless....you tellin' me this was a humanitarian venture?
something went wrong..... i haven't figured out yet exaclty where or who, but somebody messed up pretty bad..
if this was the strategy all along? it appears to me this "strategic effort" was to reduce world oil supply so the oil co's could make more profits... Iraq's "missing" million barrels a day of oil is costing 15 to 20$ per barrel according to market analysts...and? one would think that after 2 years? the Iraq oil flow would be above pre-invasion levels again....
i think something the neo-cons planned got stomped on by the big oil co's.... the neo-cons thought they were gonna create a new big oil co to compete with EXXON, Shell and BP....and it may still happen...
how does one make the big oil co's happy enough to let a new player "in"... give them several years of record profits so they can be even bigger than the new kid on the block? maybe... just maybe...
politics is nasty game...
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
I already told you what it was.. strategic. We now have land bases on either side of Iran.
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
Glass, the logic that we went to Iraq soley for the oil is flawed.. It wasn't us who was fighting for oil in Iraq.. it was the worthless French, Russians and Germans. It is abundantly clear that WW3 is coming.. Bush is just setting up the chess board. Any other notions at this point are quite simply wrong. The fact that the government isn't just allowing.. but encouraging 93 million mexicans into this country is clearly part of the scheme.. We're going to need soldiers... bunches of them. The rumors about the US, Mexico and Canada forming a large American union is part of it as well...
Posted by glassman on :
i disagree... Bush Cheney and Rummy are not chess players.. they are checkers players..
we have no need, nor did we have a need to put bases on the iraq side...
Afghanistan was plenty... and we could have put our efforts into Afghanistan and made it a model free state... instead? we divided our efforts and spread ourselves too thin... if anything? spreading ourselves too thin has made your vision of nuclear war more likely...
the buildup of public support for the invasion of Iraq is the very model of a pump andump isn't it? a small amount of data (wrong data) is leaked from the same source in several "directions" then allowed to be spread from those "separate sources" until people begin to believe the bad data is common knowledge...
same thing happened with the Plame affair...
i can't count how many fools have said she wasn't covert, she wasn't classified that her position was common knowledge.... and yet? there was a Special Prosecutor hired AFTER the Atty Genereral said he felt the leak came from inside the White House and hterefore he needed a Spec Pros. to investigate it fairly... i suppose Ashecroft was mistaken too??? nope, these guys are liars... no other way to put it...
and it has been rumored that Plame was actually working on Irans nuke program... talk about shooting yourself in the azz???
more pumpandump..... there have been so many lies nobody even knows what's true anymore...
if we went in Iraq just to have a postition there? then we would never have allowed the insurgency to get started...
the only reason we haven't invaded Iran already is that oil would go to $200... China needs their oil... Russia wants oil at 200$... they have oil that's too expensive to get even at the current prices? Russian oil is not profitable enough...
Iraq is a thorn in our foot right now, not an asset...
Posted by Dustoff101 on :
I only wish there was a checkmate solution... Nukes wouldn't do it.....A few loose cannons in the mix make it un-feasible, from a strategic Military standpoint. As a weapon of revenge? Yes, I do see the day one is used....This country went ape ka ka for revenge after 911, and I agree with the attack in Afanganistan..However, in retrospect, all I wanted was revenge, A competetent Leader of the free World should of known better.
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
oh I'm not saying they did it right.. They've screwed it up pretty bad so far. The insurgency was more of a problem than they thought it would be.. They knew there would be terrorists rushing in to fight the zionist invaders.. but I think they figured the press wouldn't have highlighted that story so much... obviously wrong. Thorn or asset? kinda goes both ways I think... Thorn for obvious reasons... Asset because Israel is about to get into it with Palestine.. syria... maybe a few others.. Taking Iraq out of that scuffle is an asset.
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
3rd Israeli kidnapped? Claim by Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades follows order to compete with Hamas
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted: July 1, 2006 1:00 a.m. Eastern
According to the Al Aqsa source, the seized soldier is Shmuel Haymen from the city of Halon, Israel. A birthdate of Aug. 24, 1982 and Haymen's official ID number – withheld by WND – were provided as proof.
The claimed kidnapping comes a day after an official in President Mahmoud Abbas' Fatah party ordered Al Aqsa members to begin abducting Israelis in order to capture some of the support and prestige flowing to Hammas from the kidnapping of Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit, according to information provided to WND by a senior Palestinian security official.
As first reported by WorldNetDaily, a spokesman for the Popular Resistance Committees terrorist organization, claimed to have kidnapped a second Israeli from northern Samaria earlier this week.
According to the Al Aqsa leader, Haymen will be released if the current siege of Gaza ends and Israel releases prisoners.
A spokesman for the Israeli Defense Force told WND the claim of Haymen's kidnapping is being investigated, but there are reports that the reservist has been out of the country for a month, raising the possibility Al Aqsa is merely in possession of a lost identity card.
Earlier this week, Al Aqsa claimed to have kidnapped 62-year-old Noah Moskowitz, whose body was found near his hometown of Rishon LeTzion. Authorities, however, say he died of natural causes and told Israel National News they believe the terrorists are scanning reports of missing persons and issuing claims of kidnapping to frighten the public.
Posted by Dustoff101 on :
RD, here's a sobering thought I have had for several days now....How many really did hit us, and look what has become of them......I know the simplicity is agrevating, believe me, I have had a struggle with it as well..None the less it keeps dogging me.
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
Here we go... now Russia is flexing a bit after we told Korea they couldn't test a missle.. Russia says.. Oh yeah?.. whatcha gonna do about this?
MOSCOW – Russia test-fired a ballistic missile Friday from a submarine in the Barents Sea to the Kamchatka peninsula in the country's far east, defense officials said. The missile landed on the Kura test range some 3,000 miles away.
“The successful firing confirmed the high readiness of the Navy Strategic Nuclear Forces and the effectiveness of the military command system,” Navy spokesman Capt. Igor Dygalo said in a statement. Last week, Russia summoned North Korea's ambassador to express alarm that Pyongyang was apparently planning to launch a long-range missile, warning him of Moscow's opposition to any steps that would destabilize the region.
According to intelligence reports, the missile, a Taepodong-2, was being fueled at a launch pad on North Korea's northeastern coast. A U.S. government estimate puts the range of the Taepodong-2 missile at between 5,000 and 7,500 miles, making it capable of reaching the United States.
Posted by glassman on :
but I think they figured the press wouldn't have highlighted that story so much.
see? here's where i take issue with the neo-cons BS machine again...
the free press is what we are fighting for dammit...
not much else is ever really free...
war gamers have included the press from day one...
the misstep? IMO? was not using twice as many troops to take Iraq....
but then? we woulda been even thinner....
the 20/20 hindsight?? (which was put forward by the CIA)
we ship a half ton or a ton of gold coins into Afghanistan, and offer real shiny GOLD for osambinalivetoolongs and sadams head? we'd have them already and the CIA coulda continued on with the EXCELLENT job they've always done when given the true green light.. they are the chess players...
Rummy and Cheney and the other neo-cons are already financially inevested in the military, that's why we did it the way we did... i bet that if you did some real digging? theres some bad blood over CIA contracts at HAL from somewhere in the recent past... i don't even want to know the details, but that's what my research points to....
Perot and Bush the first had similar bad blood..
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
Perot was the only real conservative to run in my memory... Glass.. free press? I'd sure like them to cover our side of the story just once before the end of the world.. So far they have done a fine job of making third world terror chumps into freedom fighters capable of giving jesus a lesson in morality...
Posted by Dustoff101 on :
Who are we fighting? And what are we fighting for ? Can we beat this enemy ? Is there a Clean and deciecive Victory, anywhere ? How do we plant the flag and bring the troops home?
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
We don't dusty... We aren't in Iraq to win.. we are there to get a foothold.. a land base in the region.. one in Afghanistan and one in Iraq...
Posted by glassman on :
So far they have done a fine job of making third world terror chumps into freedom fighters capable of giving jesus a lesson in morality...
the way i see it? there are a few people fighting to keep US from turning into what we are fighting...
how many terrorists are there? Iran is our enemy... we should be fighting them already IMO.... the war in Iraq takes away from that...
everybody seems to forget all the NY Times articles Judith Miller put out... at the request of Cheney and Rove.... they did put out BUSHES side.... it was all crap...
Posted by Dustoff101 on :
We tried land bases in Nam......Didn't work. I understand your thinking, but we as a country will not do a Coloniel power trip for the duration.However there is Korea.
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
Fight Iran now?.. I'm all for it.. but you and I both know we are going to have to go to the UN first.. then ten years later when Iran has a nuke we'll have to get a fifteenth resolution from the UN and we'll be right back where we started. Bush is nutless.. we need a cowboy.. not some rich kid who wears cowboy boots.
Posted by Dustoff101 on :
Now? How in the World could we ever get the support to hit Iran, and I don't mean a tactical strike, but a major push?
Posted by glassman on :
if Bush had spent some energy making the case that Iran was a terrorist sponsor back in '02 (which they ARE) instead of wasting our efforts on Saddam? we coulda done something already... our reputation in the world has been tainted by the Iraq war...
Richard Clarke told US what happened a long time ago..and he got "Roved"... go back and read what he had to say...
Posted by Dustoff101 on :
In retrospect we had Saddam contained, and Iraq stable as could be expected..A true leader would of used that..Saddam acts up? whack down goes a palice, and so and so forth.
Posted by glassman on :
In the aftermath of Sept. 11, President Bush ordered his then top anti-terrorism adviser to look for a link between Iraq and the attacks, despite being told there didn't seem to be one.
Clarke says that as early as the day after the attacks, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld was pushing for retaliatory strikes on Iraq, even though al Qaeda was based in Afghanistan.
Clarke helped shape U.S. policy on terrorism under President Reagan and the first President Bush. He was held over by President Clinton to be his terrorism czar, then held over again by the current President Bush.
When the terrorists struck, it was thought the White House would be the next target, so it was evacuated. Clarke was one of only a handful of people who stayed behind. He ran the government's response to the attacks from the Situation Room in the West Wing.
he stayed at his POST and took responsibility....
thats something we don't see much of these days...
"Rumsfeld was saying that we needed to bomb Iraq," Clarke said to Stahl. "And we all said ... no, no. Al-Qaeda is in Afghanistan. We need to bomb Afghanistan. And Rumsfeld said there aren't any good targets in Afghanistan. And there are lots of good targets in Iraq. I said, 'Well, there are lots of good targets in lots of places, but Iraq had nothing to do with it.
"Initially, I thought when he said, 'There aren't enough targets in-- in Afghanistan,' I thought he was joking.
"I think they wanted to believe that there was a connection, but the CIA was sitting there, the FBI was sitting there, I was sitting there saying we've looked at this issue for years. For years we've looked and there's just no connection."
Clarke says he and CIA Director George Tenet told that to Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Colin Powell, and Attorney General John Ashcroft.
the keystone cops are running the country... and the idjits keep making more excuses...
read that again: the CIA and the FBI KNEW Iraq was not involved in alqueda terrorism....
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
It has been proven there was a link between Iraq and Al-Qaeda... Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11 but as we have discussed there were valid reasons to include Iraq in the war on terror... Funny how every thread on this page turns into an Iraq debate where all the same arguements are stated over and over and over...
Posted by T e x on :
"And Rumsfeld said there aren't any good targets in Afghanistan. And there are lots of good targets in Iraq."
sounds like the drunk looking for his car keys...remember?
"dropped em over there in that doorway"
"so why are you looking here, under the streetlight?"
"essss dark over there, can't see too good."
Posted by Dustoff101 on :
Wish it was Keystone cops....
Truth is stranger than comedy fiction..
We can not continue this course and speed at all cost...What the solution is ? I do not know.... I just know in my very being that something is horribly wrong with this administration, and the course of action, it has led this country we proudly call America..
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
With an overpowering desire, they came; Satan and Bush http://www.exodus2006.com/L0rd kyr0N/bsatan.htm
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by Relentless Despot: It has been proven there was a link between Iraq and Al-Qaeda... Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11 but as we have discussed there were valid reasons to include Iraq in the war on terror... Funny how every thread on this page turns into an Iraq debate where all the same arguements are stated over and over and over...
huh?
zarqawi was not there associating with sadam....
The Z-man found shelter in Iran for a while, but Colin Powell didn't care. According to U.S. intelligence, Zarqawi traveled to Iraq in early 2002, and allegedly began associating with Ansar al-Islam, an impoverished group of 600 to 800 Iraqi Kurds whose stated goal was to secede from Saddam's Iraq so that its tiny, ethnically exclusive clan could go hide out in the mountains. Posted by glassman on :
this is another totally screwed up thing going on with the media manipulation...
if i say sadam hated terrorists and Islamofascists?i'm accused of defending a mass-murderer...
FACT!!!
sadam hated Islamofascists and terrorists cuz they threatened his tenuous hold on his own people...
get over it... he did send money to palestinians 20k per suicide bomber...
so did alot of people that are our "allies"...
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
They hated him as well
Posted by Dustoff101 on :
RD, link didn't work...But, now ya went and did it! I think I just may do something I have not done for sometime...I am going to look up some very old news accounts and stories for some kind of different direction to ponder, other than normal news services books articles ect...
It's a very old account of things, think the book was written by a greek in 300 ad.
Posted by glassman on :
Another very bad day in Iraq...Looks like hundreds killed....All this killing is no good.
Don't know 'bout the rest of ya, but the waste of human life I see now, has tempered and begun to remove my own personal feeling of revenge.. Justice ? really becoming clouded....
How this thing plays out is in the hands of powerful people....But we sit on juries and we have the power of the vote..
We have freedom of speach, we have freedom of movement to go where ever we want, when we want to, we have our families hopefully safe and secure... When you think in just human terms, even tho for centuries this is the way of the middle east, it does make ya wonder how a father tries to keep his family safe, in such a hell on Earth.
Most of us are on the sidelines, in many cases confused and unfulfilled with a limited understanding of what in the hell is really going on.
Maybe the answer is simple...There is not an answer.
[ July 02, 2006, 00:33: Message edited by: Dustoff101 ]
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
Take the lesson Dust and try to show others too. A call for blood ends in blood. War is no answer. Diplomats may well be sleezy and crooked but that can be contained with a wary public. Once the dogs are unleashed though...not much to do but pray for it to end and hope no one else unleashes the dogs before people find a way to work together to clean up the mess.
Only thing we can do is try and take the time to understand our neighbor.
BF
Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by Relentless Despot: It has been proven there was a link between Iraq and Al-Qaeda... Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11 but as we have discussed there were valid reasons to include Iraq in the war on terror... Funny how every thread on this page turns into an Iraq debate where all the same arguements are stated over and over and over...
Why on Earth do you guys keep lambasting rational thought with these lies?
Do you really believe that we are so simple minded we will, in the face of overwheling and irrefutable proof to the contrary, believe your lies simply because you repeat absurd nonsense over and over,
incessantly,
relentlessly,
repeatedly,
tirelessly,
without end,
without rest,
without stopping,
forever?
(Please stop the broken record!)
Or is it the case that you are, guilelessly, so simple minded you can't see you are lying?
There was no valid reason for the invasion of Iraq. It was done in spite of the Administration knowing that Saddam and Iraq were NOT involved with al Qaeda and had no participation in 9/11. There were no WMDs in Iraq. Saddam and his government imposed NO threat to the U.S. Saddam and his government were unable to impose ANY threat to the U.S. any time in the foreseable future. Any statements to the contrary are absurd lies.
The only threats to the U.S. stemming from Iraq is the probable (possibly devastating) damping of our economic well being from the price of the invasion of that soveriegn nation and the already begun morphing of our democratic culture to a facist regime of the privileged in order to "justify" an illegal war.
Posted by Dustoff101 on :
Only threats to the U.S. economic ? There are many families who would disagree with that, on bothsides.
What do you suggest? Total and immediate withdrawl from all theatres of action in the region?
I see a statement in your post, which is anger and disgust, we all think and feel all over the map on this one....What I don't see, is an attempt at a solution.
Blind hatred, solves nothing, this whole War proves that.
Posted by bdgee on :
You sometimews see things that aren't there, like all of us.
What is this? A resort to the politics of the RNC? Deflect concerns about the mess this Administration and it's followers have gotten us in by declaring until a "solution" is provided there is not problem? I don't provide hatred, I provide a position that refuses to blindly kowtow to the Administrations tune of repeated claims of false reasons for invading Iraq. The only reason they offered us when they did it was WMDs and Saddam/al Qaeda ties.
Those were lies! After the fact, they want us to forget the truth and accept their fabricated notion that there were OTHER REASONS THAT WE ACCEPTED BEFORE THE INVASION. That is more lies! We had no part in invading Iraq for reasons other than to prevent Saddam from attacking us with WMDs and supplying terrorist groups (specifically claimed by the Administration to be his partner, al Qaeda.
Posted by Dustoff101 on :
A resort to the tactic's of the RNC ? See things that are not there?
Come on dude, I do not need the RNC to see your hatred...Your hatred of the RNC blinds you to your own agenda....Any reader can see I am not some kind of hidden operative for the RNC...Do you lack the ability to comprehend some of my statements about this War? I spent my time in Hell for people like you..Would do it again, some have to go while others don't, thats the military.
Things not there? Many times a fella has to put himself in the other guys shoes to get a grasp on perspective....Are you going to tell me you never do the same....Or is that thinking like a RNC puppet..Give readers a break with that nonsense.
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
Actually bdgee if you'd care to look I noted that any connection between Iraq and al-qaeda had nothing to do with 9-11 and was minimal besides that. Surely that cannot be termed party line thinking from a wild right wing conspiracist such as I am. I think... Everyone.. I think bdgee needs a nice big group hug...
Posted by jordanreed on :
"Everyone.. I think bdgee needs a nice big group hug"...
come here,bdgee...
Posted by Dustoff101 on :
Israel is ramping up.......
What a time for North Korea to launch a test, eh'
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
Yep, Russia already "tested" one of it's missles last week. The whole world is gearing up.
Posted by Dustoff101 on :
And Missiles with Atomic Warheads for all' Oh' the Atomic explosions in thin air, the explosions in dense air, and ground entry device's to just clear all the air!
Posted by LEO on :
Oh, the humanity...
Posted by Dustoff101 on :
Interesting election in Mexico at the present time....Presidential, more fuel for conflict?
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
I thought more interestingly was that Idiot chavez making a trip to N. Korea and Iran...
Posted by Dustoff101 on :
An liberal isolationist could win in Mexico...Cuba, Venezuala as allie's ?.......What kind of government would evolve....3 antagonists in the same strategic nest...
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
interesting thought dusty...
Posted by Dustoff101 on :
This just might explain why Bush has been Bud light on the border....Geez, whole new ball game if the isolationist wins....
This is 4th of July week-end , hitting the fan in the middle East, hate to say it, but what if!
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
Yep, that what if iss what has me thinking this might be it? All the peices seem to be in place.
Posted by Dustoff101 on :
Hope of peace is gone in Gaza...Israel has more and more Heavy Armor moving up. If they go ? They will sweep like a broom this time.
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
yep.. will be waiting to see who comes the the plestinians aid.. probably Syria.. I think we are about to find out just what happened to Iraq's WMD's...
Posted by Dustoff101 on :
That message from Biny boy just might be a message to go...But, on a delay...
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
might be.. hard to say what any of his messages mean?
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
Trifecta down south? More reason to start building fortifications right now.
And I agree with your thoughts on the Middle East. Any day now. 4th o July fireworks I have no interest in seeing.
Where's your bunker R.D.? Posted by Relentless Despot on :
GAZA (Reuters) - Israel's prime minister said on Sunday he had ordered the army to "intensify" operations in Gaza to free a captured soldier after aircraft attacked the office of Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas.
The pre-dawn strike on Haniyeh's empty office in the Gaza Strip followed warnings from Israel that no one in the Hamas-led government was immune from attack.
"I have given instructions to intensify the strength of action by the army and security services, to hunt down these terrorists, those who send them ... and those who harbor them," the Israeli leader, Ehud Olmert, said at a cabinet meeting.
"I have said, and will repeat, nobody will be immune."
Hamas' armed wing responded to the helicopter missile strike on Haniyeh's office by threatening to attack Israeli power plants, institutions and schools if Israel carried out more air strikes against government offices and infrastructure.
Israel, which pulled out of the Gaza Strip last year, sent troops and tanks into the south of the territory on Wednesday after Palestinian gunmen, some from the Hamas armed wing, seized Corporal Gilad Shalit in a cross-border raid a week ago.
It has kept on hold a threatened push into northern Gaza.
Internal security chief Yuval Diskin told the cabinet that the crisis might take months to resolve.
"We have to take a deep breath ... There is no magic solution," said Diskin, head of the Shin Bet.
Surveying his wrecked office, Haniyeh found shattered furniture and windows, and a portrait of late president Yasser Arafat blown off the wall.
"This is the policy of the jungle and arrogance," Haniyeh told Reuters. "Nothing will affect our spirit and nothing will affect our steadfastness."
Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, whose Fatah faction was defeated by Hamas in a January election, condemned the attack.
U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan called it "inadvisable."
One Hamas member was killed in a second Israeli attack on an office used by forces loyal to the Islamic militant group, whose charter calls for Israel's destruction. There have been few casualties in the overall Israeli operation so far.
DEADLOCK
Palestinian officials said Egyptian-led diplomatic efforts to free Shalit were continuing but making little progress because of Israel's Gaza assault.
"I'm not hopeful," senior Abbas aide Saeb Erekat said.
A Palestinian official has quoted mediators as saying 19-year-old Shalit was alive after being treated for wounds.
Olmert ordered the armed forces "to make sure no one sleeps at night in Gaza," Israeli Interior Minister Roni Bar-On told Israel Radio.
A U.N. official said widening an Israeli offensive to the northern Gaza Strip, where militants have been launching rockets at Israel, could displace up to 25,000 Palestinians.
With a Palestinian humanitarian crisis looming and under international pressure, Israel reopened Karni, the main commercial crossing into the Gaza Strip. Israel, which had said Gaza's borders would be sealed indefinitely after Shalit was abducted, opened fuel pipelines.
After Shalit's abduction, Israel launched air strikes against Gaza's main power plant and road bridges.
It also detained eight members of the Hamas cabinet and nearly two dozen lawmakers in the occupied West Bank.
Justice Minister Haim Ramon said they would soon be tried for membership of Hamas, which Israel regards as a terrorist organization.
Hamas's armed wing warned Israel to end its offensive.
"If the occupation continues aggression and terrorism ... it will drag the region into a sea of blood and the consequences will be terrible," said Abu Ubaida, a spokesman.
Hamas has carried out nearly 60 suicide bombings in Israel since a Palestinian uprising began in 2000.
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
Israel has not ruled out the possibility of releasing Palestinian prisoners in exchange for kidnapped IDF soldier Gilad Shalit, Hamas legislator Salah al- Bardaweel said on Sunday.
But Bardaweel's comments stand in stark contrast to the unequivocal comments made Sunday in the weekly cabinet meeting by Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, Chief of General Staff Lt.-Gen Dan Halutz, and head of Military Intelligence Maj.-Gen. Amos Yadlin, who all said that Israel would not release prisoners for Shalit because this would only encourage more and more kidnapping attempts.
Meanwhile, Hamas's armed wing, Izaddin al-Kassam, on Sunday threatened to attack infrastructure facilities inside Israel, including schools, hospitals and universities. The threat, the first of its kind since Hamas won the parliamentary election last January, was issued in response to continued Israeli military strikes in the Gaza Strip.
"If they continue with these attacks, we will strike at targets in Zionist territory that we have not struck until now," said the organization's spokesman.
The latest threat came as Egypt continued its efforts to resolve the crisis.
It also came as sources in the Gaza Strip revealed that the Palestinian Authority's security forces had, for the first time, begun searching for Shalit in Rafah and Khan Yunis.
The sources said that members of the Preventative Security Service and the General Intelligence Force had secretly deployed hundreds of their men in the streets to try to track down the whereabouts of the solider. They added that some of the security officers had been disguised as Fatah and Hamas militiamen.
Yadlin, however, told the government that the Palestinian Authority security services are doing nothing to look for Shalit.
A top Egyptian diplomat involved in the talks with Hamas over the case of Shalit said Egypt was still waiting to hear from Hamas leaders in Syria and the Gaza Strip about its initiative to resolve the crisis.
The initiative, according to the diplomat, calls for the immediate release of Shalit in return for an Israeli promise to release several hundred Palestinian prisoners in the near future. It also calls for an end to Israel's military action in the West Bank and Gaza Strip and for the release of most of the Hamas ministers and legislators who were arrested last week by the IDF.
The diplomat told The Jerusalem Post that Egypt was expecting to hear from Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal, who is based in Syria, in the coming hours.
"Mashaal has promised to study the initiative with the Hamas leadership in the Gaza Strip and to give a response by Monday," the diplomat said. He said Mashaal made the promise over the weekend during a phone conversation with a senior Egyptian security official.
"Egypt is determined to resolve the crisis as soon as possible," the diplomat added. "We want a solution that will prevent further violence and bloodshed." He also expressed cautious optimism about the prospects of ending the crisis peacefully. "It's premature to talk about the failure of the negotiations," he said. "There is still room for optimism, although one has to be very careful in such sensitive issues."
Bardaweel, one of the prominent Hamas representatives in the Gaza Strip, claimed that Israel had informed the Egyptian mediators that it did not rule out the possibility of releasing Palestinian prisoners. "Israel wants to release prisoners, but it does not want that to be directly linked to the case of the Israeli soldier," he said.
Bardaweel also praised Egypt's mediation efforts, saying the Egyptians were doing their utmost to avoid more destruction in the region.
Ahmed Bahar, deputy speaker of the Palestinian Legislative Council, said that the soldier would not be handed back unless Israel accepted the conditions of the captors. "These are the conditions of all the Palestinians, including the families of prisoners and martyrs," he said.
Bahar said Israel's dilemma is that it is facing only two scenarios either to suffer humiliation by accepting the conditions or to launch a military operation that could result in the death of the soldier.
PA chairman Mahmoud Abbas strongly condemned Israel's air raid on the office of Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh on Saturday night as a "real crime." Abbas, who was speaking to reporters during a tour of the destroyed office in Gaza City together with Haniyeh, said: "The world should understand that the destruction of the institutions of the Palestinian people is a real crime."
Following the attack, Abbas and Haniyeh held an urgent meeting in Gaza City to discuss the latest developments surrounding the case of the IDF soldier.
Haniyeh, who later inspected the ruins of his office, said the attack would not influence Hamas's standing.
"This is a policy of arrogance that resembles the rule of the jungle," he told reporters. I call on the international community to intervene to stop the Israeli aggression."
Also on Sunday, Hamas called on the Palestinians to boycott July 4 celebrations planned by the US Consulate General in Jerusalem. Farhat As'ad, a Hamas spokesman, said the Palestinians should boycott the event because of US bias toward Israel. He also urged Palestinian journalists not to cover the celebrations.
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
Asefi: Zionist regime will burn in the fire started by itself
Tehran, July 2, IRNA Iran-Asefi-Zionists Foreign Ministry spokesman Hamid-Reza Asefi here Sunday said that the Zionist regime will eventually burn in the flame of the fire started by itself.
Asefi made the remark while speaking to domestic and foreign reporters in this week's briefing session as he pointed to the recent attacks launched by the Zionists on the Gaza Strip, during which they kidnapped a number of Palestinian officials.
Turning to the extremely bitter incidents in the occupied lands, he said that the inefficient and wrong policies of the Zionist regime accounted for them.
The Foreign Ministry spokesman said that the Zionist regime is enraged seeing `the free elections in Palestine and taking charge of affairs by the popular government-elect', after which it has taken `insane measures'.
He said that the new crisis started after innocent individuals were kidnapped and taken hostage by the Zionist regime.
Stressing that `the moves of the Zionist regime are against any international criterion', he dismissed the pretext for such measures and said that the regime itself took inhuman measures.
He referred to `the growing isolation of the Zionist regime on the international scene' and `the continuity of resistance of the Palestinian people as other reasons for their fury.
Asefi said that given the Zionists intend to damage the economy and infrastructure of Gaza Strip, the international community should pressurize them to avoid disrupting the flow of relief aid to the Palestinian people, including food, medicine and fuel.
The official pointed to the discussion of the issue by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki with the UN Secretary General Kofi Annan and said, "Iran seeks mediation of the UN Security Council and Annan himself in this respect." Asefi also called on the Human Rights Council to approach the issue and violation of the human rights by the Zionist regime.
He pointed to the Zionist regime's continuous abuse of the silence of international bodies towards Zionist measures and called on these bodies and Islamic states not to let them take such moves any more.
The Foreign Ministry official said that Iran has discussed the issue with Islamic countries and that the matter will be on the agenda of the next meeting of the countries neighboring Iraq, adding that Majlis has also been working on it.
Addressing reporters, he welcomed formation of the Foreign Relations Strategic Council last week according to the decree of the Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution Ayatollah Ali Khamenei who appointed Kamal Kharrazi as the council head.
Based on the decree, Ali Akbar Velayati, Ali Shamkhani, Mohammad Shariatmadari and Mohammad-Hossein Taromi were appointed to serve as council members for a five-year term.
Asefi pointed to establishment of the Foreign Relations Strategic Council as a step in favor of the foreign policy system.
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
Are they double talking there?? Trying to mix up the series of events?
Or is the Israeli soldier a retaliation kidnapping for kidnapping Israel did previous to this?
If so then that gives a different spin to this whole standoff.
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
Israel took some terrorists prisoner.. they have been for some time.. The kidnapping of the soldier was a rettaliation for that.. That's why Hamas is demanding 1000 prisoners be released in exchange for the soldier...
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
Were they kidnapping out of Palistine without approval?
funny how I missed that part.
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
who was kidnapping?.. Israel arrested people.. I don't have a list of names but if memory serves they were bad guys... who knows.
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
indeed
Posted by glassman on :
Asefi said that given the Zionists intend to damage the economy and infrastructure of Gaza Strip, the international community should pressurize them to avoid disrupting the flow of relief aid to the Palestinian people, including food, medicine and fuel.
in other words? why'd they stop the welfare?????
what have the Palestinians ever done for themselves? except martyr themselves? i mean that as a serious question.... i don't have clue.... they just happened to be living in land captured by the Israelis in a war that somebody else started....
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
They are only there to make the Israelis look like horrible zionist oppressors... That's about it...
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
A Hamas operative was killed in an IAF air strike in Beit Hanoun in northern Gaza late Monday night, according to Palestinian sources.
The Hamas man, Ismail al-Masri, 19, was a member of the Izzadin al-Kassam, the group's military wing.
A short while later, IAF aircraft hit a building at the Islamic University in Gaza city early Tuesday, Palestinians said. Black smoke rose from the building, set on fire in the attack. No one was hurt.
The military had no comment. The university is considered a Hamas stronghold. The building, where the Hamas-dominated student council meets, was heavily damaged.
Earlier Monday the IDF stepped up its offensive on against Hamas terror infrastructure and sent ground forces into the northern Gaza Strip and troops into the terror group's charity offices in the West Bank in moves aimed at escalating the pressure on the kidnappers of Cpl. Gilad Shalit.
Senior officers said the military operations to rescue Shalit would continue as planned despite an ultimatum issued Monday morning by Palestinian terror groups behind the abduction of the soldier last week. On Monday, two Palestinian gunmen were killed in separate incidents in northern Gaza.
Defense Minister Amir Peretz said Israel would not tolerate kidnappings and would not allow any harm to come to Shalit. He said Israel would continue to allow moderate elements in the Palestinian Authority to try to diplomatically solve the crisis.
[For Jerusalem Online video coverage of the day's events click here.]
"We will know how to reach everyone involved in the kidnapping and everyone who is responsible for his [Shalit's] fate," Peretz said. "The Hamas terrorist headquarters operating out of Syria, headed by Khaled Mashaal, is the main address that is responsible."
Peretz also issued a veiled threat to Syrian President Bashar Assad on Monday, warning that he would hold him personally responsible if Shalit was harmed.
Last week, four Israeli F-16s buzzed Assad's summer residence in Latakia, to try to pressure him to persuade Mashaal to release Shalit. A Peretz adviser said the defense minister did not intend to threaten Assad's life, but to send him a "positive message" that he should take action.
Senior defense officials backed up Peretz's threat to Assad, hinting at the possibility that additional military steps, similar to the IAF flyover of his palace, would be taken.
"The common theme of all of the military action is to keep up the pressure on all those involved in the kidnapping, including Hamas and Assad," one defense official said.
In response, Assad reiterated his country's staunch support for the Palestinians in the face of the IDF offensive in Gaza.
Early Monday, after days of preparation, several tanks, bulldozers and armored personnel carriers carrying troops from the Givati Brigade crossed into northern Gaza and took up positions on the outskirts of Beit Hanun. While the IDF released an official statement claiming that the incursion was a "pinpointed" mission aimed at uncovering terror tunnels and explosive devices in the area, senior officers said it was possible the troops would remain in place for a longer period and would be joined by additional forces.
IDF combat engineers near Beit Hanun shot and killed one of two Palestinian gunmen who had opened fire on the military force. Later in the day, the IAF fired missiles at a terror cell in northern Gaza that was on its way to fire anti-tank rockets at IDF troops stationed nearby. One of the operatives was killed.
Before dawn Monday, IDF troops stormed Dawa charity offices in Hebron, Nablus and Bethlehem and seized documents connected to the Hamas-affiliated organizations. The Dawa charities, IDF officers said, were fronts for the transfer of funds to Hamas terror activity.
Also Monday, missiles struck a building in Gaza City that the IDF said was used by the Aksa Martyrs Brigades. The building, officers said, was used as headquarters for planning terror activities. A warehouse in the northern Gaza village of Beit Lahiya used to store weaponry, including Kassam rockets, was also attacked. Three Palestinians were wounded. The warehouse, according to the IDF, also belonged to the Aksa Martyrs Brigades.
Late Sunday night, IDF troops shot and killed three Hamas terrorists after they were seen crawling towards military forces while carrying explosive belts, which they allegedly planned to use in a suicide attack against the soldiers.
Posted by rimasco on :
U.S. to send in Team America to diffuse situation and prevent casualties in Dirkadirkastahn
Posted by Relentless Despot on :
Hamas rocket attack 'act of war' Missile hits strategic town, Israelis vow major response
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted: July 5, 2006 11:22 a.m. Eastern
The rocket was the first ever to land in central Ashkelon, a town of 120,000 residents that is home to Israel's main electric supply station and critical gas and oil pipelines. The rocket, an updated version of the Palestinian Qassam missile, was launched by militants only a fifth of a mile from Israeli ground troop concentrations stationed in Gaza.
Critics of former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's evacuation last summer of the Gaza Strip had warned the retreat eventually would place Ashkelon under Palestinian rocket fire. Sharon then had stated rockets fired at the strategic town would result in an "unprecedented Israeli military response."
Terrorist leaders in Gaza told WND today their groups have the ability to regularly bombard Ashkelon. They warned longer-range Qassam missiles will be fired at Israeli towns near Gaza in the near future.
The statements follow a WorldNetDaily exclusive interview in which Abu Abdullah, a leader of Hamas' so-called military wing, stated his group is developing electronically guided missiles.
The Qassam rocket yesterday hit Ashkelon's Ronson High School at about 7 p.m. Jerusalem time, causing damage but no casualties even though many parents and children were in the vicinity during the attack to register for the coming school year.
Hamas took credit for the attack.
The rocket bombardment was the farthest a Palestinian projectile had ever traveled – about eight miles. Regular Qassam rockets have a range of about three to five miles.
Israeli security officials said the Qassam used in yesterday's attack was an updated version, possessing two engines instead of one.
Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, who was attending an American Independence Day party at the home of the U.S. ambassador during the attack, said the rocket fired at Ashkelon took the Palestinian terror war to a new level.
"This attack, this criminal attempt that was aimed at harming Israeli civilians living inside Israel's borders, will have unparalleled and far-reaching consequences," Olmert said. "And the Hamas organization will be the first to feel them."
Today Olmert's security cabinet approved an Israeli Defense Forces proposal to expand military operations in the Gaza Strip in response to the Qassam attack.
IDF troops entered southern and northern Gaza following a Hamas raid June 25 against Israel's Kerem Shalom military station and the kidnapping of French-Israeli citizen Gilad Shalit.
"There will be steps taken and they will be very serious," said Cabinet Minister Isaac Herzog, who refused to elaborate on the military's plans. "There is a very broad operation here. It will continue."
Israel's objectives in the operation were defined during the meeting as targeting Hamas in Gaza and in Judea and Samaria – in particular, hitting institutions and infrastructure suspected of facilitating terrorism and restricting the movements of terrorists by tightening the division of the Gaza Strip by IDF ground forces.
An IDF proposal obtained last night by WND included a massive ground assault and anti-terror operation in Beit Hanoun, a northern Gaza town known to be a major terrorist staging grounds. The attack would be similar to Israel's Defensive Shield operation in 2002 in which the terror infrastructure of northern Samaria was badly damaged.
It was unclear if the IDF's Beit Hanoun operation was approved by the security cabinet today.
Meanwhile a senior leader of Hamas' "military wing" told WND the group has succeeded in developing a large quantity of Qassam missiles that can travel further distances.
The leader, who spoke on condition his name be withheld, said the group has the ability to regularly bombard Ashkelon and other nearby towns.
He warned more longer-range missiles will be fired "in the coming days."
New missiles would threaten most Israelis
Abu Abdullah, a senior leader of Hamas' so-called military wing last month told WND in an interview his group is developing a new, electronically guided missile that will place most major Israeli population centers within firing range.
"In the last months we accelerated the improvement operations of our missile production," Abdullah said. "Thanks to Allah we have already improved missiles and in the future we will have the fourth model of our Qassam missiles, which will be electronically guided missiles and very accurate. Our Mujahadeen fighters are receiving a high level of training on how to use the new Qassams and how to maximize their accuracy. With the help of Allah we will succeed."
Abdullah claimed the new missiles will be able to reach "every target in 1948 occupied Palestine (Israel) and that from Gaza we will be able to hit the center of Israel even if the transfer of these missiles to the West Bank (which runs alongside major Israeli cities) is for some reason interrupted."
Palestinian groups, until now, generally have fired three versions of Qassams, improvised steel rockets filled with explosives and fuel. Until yesterday, the furthest a Qassam had traveled was about five miles. Israel has noted regular improvements in Qassams, although it has not released information about Palestinian groups developing missiles with guidance systems.
A senior Palestinian intelligence officer told WND there is evidence groups in Gaza are developing guided missiles.
Israeli defense officials have warned some advanced rockets, including antiaircraft missiles, have been smuggled into the Gaza Strip.
Abdullah claimed Israel has been deliberately minimizing his group's rocket capabilities.
"It is normal that the Israelis will underestimate the capabilities of Palestinian resistance such as not admitting we are working on these new missiles," he said. "The people who made the (Gaza) withdrawal don't want to talk now about the so-called risks."
Posted by ruskin_muskin on :
NUKE PALESTINE!!!!!
Posted by rimasco on :
quote:Originally posted by ruskin_muskin: NUKE PALESTINE!!!!!
thats off the table then Israel would take out itself as well
wait a sec....THATS A GREAT IDEA
Posted by glassman on :
looks like Israel is releasing the hounds right now....
sounds like Israel Spec Forces are deep in Palestine conducting door to door for the kidnapped soldier...
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
Sumpin in Chicago...Subway. Blue line, the L train, Airport to downtown, looks like an accident?
India, 8 attacks on transportation systems..
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
Palestine and Israel are really escalating right now....The kidnap drill, 0 soldiers Israel, 2 Palestine...Here we go! the numbers game to escalate.
Posted by bdgee on :
Military crap going on between Lebanon and Israel too, with Israel saying it is an act of war.
some serious erros of judgement have been made by Hezbollah...
Posted by bdgee on :
Perhaps one of the scariest things about this right now is that we are tied to Iraq (and the bills for Iraq that will be being paid for generations) and don't dare offer serious refereeing.
Posted by glassman on :
i think that's what these bozos are counting on...
they may be mistaken if they think it matters...
Posted by glassman on :
Palestine has finally killed itself i think.....
the recent acts of terrorism perpetrated by Hamas, and now Hezbolah are suicidal acts IMO...
Posted by bdgee on :
"the recent acts of terrorism perpetrated by Hamas, and now Hezbolah are suicidal acts IMO..."
Well, they should be. But with the financial support of the oil-rich Arab states (supported in turn by our own republicn administration}, it may again recompose itself. Sadly, each of its reincornations is preceded by the killing or maiming or starving of millions of innocent people, mostly Arabs.
Posted by rimasco on :
It will never end...not even if 95% of the palestinian population was popcorned.
I think these people are being delt with in the wrong fashion. There living in biblical times over there.
Now if you got Chris Angel to go over there wearing a loincloth and towel and got him to levitate above a few refugee camps while preaching "bury your head in the sand" ....well... i think there would be alot of parking spaces for bicycles
Posted by glassman on :
you might be correct rimasco...
that stuff might just impress them...
i am sick of our govt making terrorism worse rather than better....
it's become fairly obvious that Iraq is now a training ground for a whole new batch of osambinalivetoolongs..
maybe we should start bombing them all with pork products...
they'll stop this nonesense if they think thye can't go to their heaven...
Posted by glassman on :
new matter to consider:
India is condemning Pakistan over the train bombings yesterday...
this may work? or it may make things a lot worse, but i agree that the Pakis are not a very trustworthy ally in the war on terro...
Posted by rimasco on :
Glass its funny you say that. I remember hearing a story about the Brits dipping their musket balls in pork blood during one of there conflicts with arabs. I also remember hearing it worked.
I cant seem to find anything on it though.
Posted by glassman on :
heck, we could hit 'em with bacon grease...
it doesn't wash off easy and i think they fear that more than death...
Posted by rimasco on :
Your 100% right. They dont fear the soldier holding the granade, they fear the guy holding the McRibb sandwhich.
Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by rimasco: Glass its funny you say that. I remember hearing a story about the Brits dipping their musket balls in pork blood during one of there conflicts with arabs. I also remember hearing it worked.
I cant seem to find anything on it though.
Was it from one of Kiplings stories about fighting in Afganistan? If so, it was pork fat rather than blood used to waterproof the powder/shot packets....and wasn't the upshot of it all that the Indian/Brittish soldiers wouldn't bite off the ends of the pork-fat wax packets and load their muskets and the british military had to learn to respect the religious beliefs of non-Christians?
Posted by rimasco on :
bdgee.....im gonna take a stab at profiling. Are you a Trekkie?
Posted by bdgee on :
rimasco,
No, never could see that stuff as more than popular fantasy and poor science fiction.
Sorry
Posted by rimasco on :
Whats captain Kirks middle name?
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
Osama, thats where he has been hiding.
Posted by glassman on :
DOW tanking over this?
or is it the earnings?
Bush jumped up on the dungheap and crowed about the economy day before yesterday...
maybe it was his last chance to take credit for a good growth economy? Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
We got ourselves a summer sell off.. Bargain time...
I don't think Wall Street even pays attention to the Nitt Witt anymore....They probably figgure him in like a screw ball relative at xmas gatherings.
Enron man found dead in London, was he on the run?
Posted by glassman on :
Dr Rice is asking Syria (no LOL) to step in and ask Hezbollah to rethink their postition here...
stranger and stranger...
Israel is conducting airstrikes in Lebanon...
don't be surprised if Irans nuke sites get hit by a *stray* missile in the next few days...
Posted by rimasco on :
Israel is like a Manic caged monkey right now gettin poked with a stick
Posted by rimasco on :
I wonder if the palestians and the surrounding countries realize that their giving Israel the perfect excuse to take out every single hot zone that they have only been monitoring?
Posted by glassman on :
i been wondering the same thing...
i don't see how these people think they are gonna survive this....
Posted by glassman on :
Iran is behind this IMO....
they are trying to up the ante on their nuke program...
Posted by rimasco on :
Well this could be the result of their military strategist using some rocks and a stick in the sand for their game-plan
Or there just looking to provoke to inflame the Arab world
Im gonna go with all of the above
Posted by Relentless on :
Either way.. say hello to world war 3
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
Shiiiiteeites on a murdering rampage in Iraq...
Pulling Soonee's out of buses and just killing them.
The place is out of control! Damn, they could of done it right.
Posted by Relentless on :
Add to that N.Korea trying their best to lose what will be a horribly one sided nukleer war.
Posted by Sasquatch on :
Yep.
Hornet's nest that just got knocked off the tree.
If India gets involved this early though this could end a lot quicker. Especially if the Arab nations decide not to declare war on Israel. I could see that happening if other nations get in the fray and make it long odds on success.
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
Well, our generation and even yours RD are about to see it all......We are heading for a War on a much larger scale than Americans have seen sence 45.......All this containment bs is not going to work..They won't go Nuclear, that would not work.
It's going to be house to house and up front and personal.
Posted by Relentless on :
If india gets involved then things will ramp up quickly.. the muslims and Hindus are old enemies. Russia and china will take the muslim's side.. europe will side with the russians... Like I said a few weeks ago when I returned.. Does anyone know if there is published research on global wind patterns in the event of a nukleer war?
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
I think it is going to all fall apart in pieces..
Kind of a warlord worldwide revolution.
Posted by Relentless on :
Yep, Dusty, I've been waiting for this for a long time.. I am really quite tired of all the vaginafooting around... Appeasement does not work. Containment does not work. Killing every last evil man will work. Let's get it on
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
If the assanation squads hit hard? we got ourselves a nitemare.
Posted by Relentless on :
Ohhh its going to get very ugly before anything settles... like nothing any of us have ever seen.
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
RD, they think we are the bad guys, lol
There will be plenty of dance partners.
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
We'll put Purl on um! LOL
Posted by Sasquatch on :
Axis and Allies (anyone here ever play?) ought to create a map based on this conflict so people can see the different possibilities here.
Be very interesting to see what types of strategies evolve depending on who takes what side.
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
Korea is a piece a cake right?, maybe....We thought that about Iraq.
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
The Ruskee's would take out the stans..
If putin is murdered? whole new ball game..
Posted by Relentless on :
quote:Originally posted by Blue Marlin': We'll put Purl on um! LOL
Put Purl one one side and me on the other.. she can chase them to me
Posted by Sasquatch on :
I think half the intellegence about North Korea and thier "buried air force" is bull. Land war? No thanks, even if only few people in that million man army can shoot straight and have the will to do so it would be big and messy.
Just keep em at a distance and bomb until the internal structure colapses.
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
Take out the top Heads of state? Both sides will be going there...WW2 it was tried.
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
Sasquatch, thats what I mean, take out the little freak. Ka--ous would solve the problem.
Turn out the lights, and let them have a revolution.
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
we can't run wild about the World forcing people how to live...We can wage war when needed.
But I mean war and not these screwball police ops.
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
If we go to War, go to War and finish it.
Posted by Relentless on :
yep.. exactly Dusty.. war is for killing.. not coercing
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
Israel just went air...This thing is going to escalate.
Posted by Relentless on :
do what?
Posted by Sasquatch on :
just went air? huh?
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
That was a warning, these guys are going after the heads of Hamas next...And I do not mean to sit down and chat.
Posted by Relentless on :
I see now.. It's starting... finally after 6000 years of vaginafooting... it's starting
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
People just do not get it..We will see the heads of state taken down all over the world...Just a matter of time..These are no more "rules of War."
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
RD, you do have a way of making a point..lol
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
quote:Originally posted by Sasquatch: just went air? huh?
------------------------------------------------- Sometime's I abreviate....That helmut of mine makes me talk military talk when in a hurry. Get Air in here, a 1ST LT said it a few times.. I was his driver.
Beruit Airport just got hit, might of been by Air...
Posted by glassman on :
OK...
Israel has hit two key targets tonight or as Dustoff says "called in AIR"..
A) two runways at Beirut international airport B)Palestinian Foreign Ministry office is destroyed..
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
The LT had to call in Air support, Generaly Cobra's "and" or H1 Slick's....Even Puff the Magic Dragon [C-130 Gunship] might swing by for visit ...Sometimes "Jet Air" there was some fixed wing prop aircraft as well, don't remember seeing the prop job tho... I was kinda busy...
Any of the above you would not want PO'D at you..'Specialy our Guneee....
As we stood down, they would move us all around trying figure out where we were needed..
I even had Life Gaurd Duty at a Tropical beach "in country" once...Funniest thing I did was drive a, ready for this? a school bus! Somehow that old bus survived over there for yrs previous to my turn as driver..Later on? I got a kick out of Radar on mash, the one when he was driving the "School bus" I think it was the same one..LOL
[ July 13, 2006, 07:12: Message edited by: Blue Marlin' ]
Posted by glassman on :
here we go...
Israeli Foreign Ministry says they have credible information Hezbolah is trying to move the two captured Israeli soldier to Iran...
there's the direct line....
Posted by glassman on :
i am DDing the trail to Iran....
Kassam or Qassam rockets
May 31 '06 Since Israel completed its withdrawal from the Gaza Strip last September, more than 440 rockets have landed inside Israel, some doing extensive damage but none -- so far -- causing any deaths.
these are crappy rockets, but in the last month? i've been hearing that the rocket quality is improving...
Posted by glassman on :
some DD indicates there are 3 different version of Qassam with ranges between 3 and 10 km....
Posted by glassman on :
last year? Hamas was so desparate? they were making the rockets out the pipe used to make street signs...
http://www.standwithus.com/news_post.asp?NPI=249 To overcome a lack of raw materials, Kassam rocket makers have begun using pipes that held up street signs. Because of this there is a dearth of signposts in Gaza, military sources said.
The sources said Hamas members and backers were working at a heightened pace in metal workshops to produce more weaponry, to be better prepared for an outbreak of hostilities if and when the de facto cease-fire breaks down and the IDF again targets them.
i am trying to track down where they are getting their materials from now...
the rumors are that Iran began supplying them with higher quality materials thru Damascus....
On June 29, 2006, a Qassam that was apparently a new model landed in the city of Ashdod. Remains of a dud two engine or two-stage rocket were found. Posted by glassman on :
The Israeli army said several Hezbollah rockets overnight had landed more than 20 kilometres south of the border, showing that Hezbollah has managed to extend its missiles' range.
these rockets are rumored to be Russian made... no name yet for these hits on the net...
i don't like them using the term missile.... missile is usually a guided/steerable rocket...these do not appear to be...
Are you stuck in Lebanon?
July 13, 2006
The Sydney Morning Herald would like to hear from Australians trapped in Lebanon after Israel's total blockade.
better get out.....
Posted by rimasco on :
Glass i agree.. i think there using the word missle to make them sound more like military strikes. If I were a betting man i would bet there is 0 accuracy on these things. Fact is if the thing makes it over the wall they hit there target.
Posted by HILANDER on :
I've been gone a bit with the RR (BNSF does not believe in time off for it's employees that's why salaries are so high) anyway, Blue Marlin.....that you Dustoff?
Posted by Relentless on :
I heard Newt on the radio whilst I was driving home in this sweltering heat. What I heard was amazing.. That idiot is yelling and screaming about getting tough with Iran, Syria and others.. enough with the appeasement he says... then he demands as an answer to what really looks like the begining of world war three... sanctions... F#CK!NG SANCTIONS???? I have tired... I eagerly await this doomsday that will topple all governments... including ours.
Posted by T e x on :
quote:Originally posted by HILANDER: I've been gone a bit with the RR (BNSF does not believe in time off for it's employees that's why salaries are so high) anyway, Blue Marlin.....that you Dustoff?
yup, that's Dusty...
Posted by T e x on :
"I eagerly await this doomsday that will topple all governments... including ours."
might screw with Forex...
Posted by Relentless on :
Yeah... I know... Sacrifices will have to be made. But worth it. This whole damned world is grouping together against us and all our idiot elected officials can do is talk about sanctions??? My weariness is now complete with regard to these nattering nitwits...
Posted by foxtrot6 on :
quote:Originally posted by Relentless: Russia and china will take the muslim's side.. europe will side with the russians...
There is no way Germany would side with Russia
Posted by Relentless on :
wanna bet? Just who was it? Who was it who exterminated as many Jews as they could? Who? hmmmn Tip of my toungue... G something... It'll come to me.. just hold on...
Oh that's right.. IT WAS EFFING GERMANY!!!!!!!
Posted by foxtrot6 on :
quote:Originally posted by Relentless: wanna bet? Just who was it? Who was it who exterminated as many Jews as they could? Who? hmmmn Tip of my toungue... G something... It'll come to me.. just hold on...
Oh that's right.. IT WAS EFFING GERMANY!!!!!!!
Do you know anything about the fighting on the eastern front in WW2? And about the aftermath of WW2 in eastern Europe. There is a deep hatered between German and Russian troops, when the two met it resulted in the most fiersome fighting anywhere. The Germans slaughtered the Russians by the 100s of thousands. At the end of the war many German officers surrendered their comands to the Americans with the hope that they could join us to fight the Russians some more.
Posted by HILANDER on :
Nothing good can come of this.
Posted by glassman on :
i've seen several hopeful articles like this today:
maybe Iran has overstepped the line after all?
July 13, 2006, 7:49AM Russia, China to pursue Iran sanctions They join U.S., Europe in seeking a U.N. resolution ordering Tehran to halt nuclear work
By HELENE COOPER New York Times
PARIS - Russia and China, crossing a diplomatic threshold in the effort to curb Tehran's nuclear ambitions, joined the United States and Europe on Wednesday by agreeing to seek a U.N. Security Council resolution ordering Iran to freeze some nuclear activities, or face sanctions.
this is not the solution yet, BUT it looks like a move in the right direction
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Glass, you know as well as I.. it means nothing
Posted by glassman on :
maybe...
Iran screwed up this time... they opened the door for Israel to strike...
if hezbolah gets those hostages out of Lebanon and into Iran? Israel will strike Iran and we'll back 'em...
China and Russia won't stop US or Israel...
we don't need sanctions... all we need is for those two to stand aside...
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Or in the way.. I don't care.. bring them on.. the whole damned world wants to pick a fight... And it's a fight I actually want.
Posted by glassman on :
well, China doesn't want much... just Tawian... we may lose that...
Russia? they want money...they've really gone for capitalism in a big way.. i heard today that Moscow now has more billionaires than New York, or any other city...
this won't be a winner take all deal...
interesting: The youngest billionaire is also female. Hind Hariri, daughter of slain Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, is 22 years old and eight months younger than Germany's Prince Albert von Thurn und Taxis Forbes list of billionaires
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Ahh but Glass... what is it they both want?
Posted by glassman on :
China has loaned US too much money...
and Putin and Bush are in love dontcha remember?
seriously?? China doesn't see money the way we do...
Russia does... it still comes down to money.
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
bs.. you know the answer
Posted by glassman on :
we pretty much knew the answer after there were no WMD.. Bush is the one that started slicing the cake... the dems have tried to stop this, but they didn't do a very good job...
is Bush really crazy? does he think Jesus is coming down to settle it?
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Glass, you are attempting to avoid the question.. What is the one thing both Russia and China want?
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
They want us gone... Given the right circumstances.. given an all out fight.. given they think they are justified... They want us gone.
Posted by SuperSniper00 on :
wow this situation is getting crazy
- Isreal attacking gaza and lebanon - Iran is backing, funding, and most likely organizing this whole thing - North Korea and Iran have been working together on missle technology - Iran has given some missles to hezbollah - North Korea is testing their **** pissing off Japan and the US - Iran will attack israel if israel attacks syria - US has 150Kish troops on both sides of Iran
So lets see WWIII will have who on both sides of this??
Coalition of the willing: US Israel Japan South Korea Great Britian India
Axis of Evil: Russia China Iran North Korea Pakistan
Thank you Clinton for not having a foriegn policy for 8 years and than letting an idiot be your succesor.
Posted by bdgee on :
No, you are attempting to excise the answer you choose so it will fit with your radical view of reality.
Just whose law says there must be an answer?
"Bring 'em on", you say?
Now what other brave warrier do I remember uttering that and thinking that way?
Diplomacy is a valuable tool that must NEVER be dismissed.
Posted by glassman on :
Thank you Clinton for not having a foriegn policy for 8 years and than letting an idiot be your succesor.
that is the truth...
clinton and monica set up the situation for dubya...
i did NOT vote for Gore....
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Bdgee.. I WAS talking to a reasonable intelligent man whom I have great respect for... Shouldn't you be washing your dentures?
Posted by SuperSniper00 on :
quote:Originally posted by Relentless Despot.: They want us gone... Given the right circumstances.. given an all out fight.. given they think they are justified... They want us gone.
Yeah Im pretty sure Russia and China want us gone.
Russian technology + Chinese manpower = holy ****
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by Relentless Despot.: Glass, you are attempting to avoid the question.. What is the one thing both Russia and China want?
no. i was answering, i don't think China or Russia really wants US gone right now... China has already almost bought US... just a few more of these little wars and ten more years of deficit spending? they will OWN US...
Russia? they have figured out its fun to be rich... why kill US when its more profitable and fun to play capitalism games?
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Ok bdgee I will indulge you for just a moment.. then you really must go to bed.. One thing we have in common.. well two but we'll discuss irritability later. We do not like government.. We both think government is too controlling... Agreed? How is it that we will again return to a passive government? Not by votes pal... I eagerly await this coming doomsday.
Posted by SuperSniper00 on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman:
quote:Originally posted by Relentless Despot.: Glass, you are attempting to avoid the question.. What is the one thing both Russia and China want?
no. i was answering, i don't think China or Russia really wants US gone right now... China has already almost bought US... just a few more of these little wars and ten more years of deficit spending? they will OWN US...
Russia? they have figure out its fun to be rich... why kill US when it more profitable to play games?
They can own as much as they want...because in the end the government will just sieze all foriegn assets and it will then be ours. As long as the Canadians dont get too baked we have resources to supply us for awhile.
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Nah glass you, I think, are thinking to present term.. I don't think they see it that way.. We are meddlesome.. We can not be trusted as far as they are concerned..
Posted by glassman on :
well hell, they did until supersniper spilled the beans and gave away the bankruptcy plan... Posted by SuperSniper00 on :
US Embassy workers and relatives in lebanon are leaving the country.
Here we go...
Posted by glassman on :
seriously? i think the terrorists ( IRAN) have everybody (China and Russia and US) a little fed up...
the Russkies like the price of oil high.. but they have the Chechens too remeber? China? nope... US? most of us don't...
if the dems win the house and senate in Nov? it will be cuz oil is too expensive..
Posted by SuperSniper00 on :
Who cares who wins congress? Rudy Gulianni is going to win the presidency and he is just going to kill all the homeless people and the problem will be solved...just like new york city. then he will turn isreal into little italy.
Posted by bdgee on :
Relentless Despot,
It might help if you would practice reasonable intelligent conversation instead of the name calling and bashing you can't seem to do speak without. There is nothing intellegent about hate and bullying and insults. You need to try and learn some manners and respect. Grow up.
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
bdgee.. run along. Glass.. yes I think they are fed up as well.. Russia has had it's share of trouble with these idiots.. but I really think they are going to use them against us as we did to them.. Cold war not frozen.. and about to boil..
Posted by glassman on :
well, it was noted today that Bush is going to skip visiting one of the old USSR states to go straight to Putin for the G8 this time..
he had planned to visit one of the 'stans on the way but cancelled..
this shows he has finally figured out that Putin is not going to take the insults anymore...
i've always been confused about whther he even realises these little "faux pas" he does..
last April? Chinese President Hu Jintao visited Bill Gates on his way to DC.. i bet dubya was pi$$ed...
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
LOL.. yeah not many doubt the reality that dubya's mind is wandering on the best of days.. He's not helping the overall situation.. or just maybe he is.. Ever seen a flawless rope a dope? not saying it's planned.. but
Posted by glassman on :
oh i think sending Dr Rice to the mideast is BRILLIANT..
they are racist and chauvinist....
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Yeah.. surely an insult on many levels.. passive agressive.. I tell people to eff off everyday without actually saying it..
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Yes, and it's especially useful when dealing with countries that actually have WMDs.
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: Diplomacy is a valuable tool that must NEVER be dismissed.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Unlike here, where everyone is absolutely tolerant?
(I understood the intent of your post, I just couldn't resist the irony.)
quote:Originally posted by glassman: oh i think sending Dr Rice to the mideast is BRILLIANT..
they are racist and chauvinist....
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Among a few hundred other things. Here are just a few examples of some less amusing "Bushisms."
1. Lied about WMD. 2. Unilaterally invaded a sovereign nation without provocation and justification. 3. Lied during State of the Union speech re: Niger Uranium. 4. Responsible for pre-9/11 intelligence failures in White House, CIA, FBI. 5. Allowed 9-11 murderers to remain free while diverting precious military and financial resources to his vanity war in Iraq. 6. Lied about Saddam/bin Laden connection. 7. Turned Iraq into a terrorist breeding ground. 8. Lied about nation-building. 9. Opposed creation of 9-11 Commission and Homeland Security Department. 10. Disrespected and alienated the U.S. from French, German and other key allies. 11. Lied to Americans about the real cost of war. 12. Fostered an environment of torture at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. 13. Lined Halliburton's pockets in Afghanistan and Iraq with fat no-bid contracts. 14. Under-manned and under-equipped our armed forces in Iraq, resulting in unnecessary death and injuries. 15. Ignored the nuclear build-up in both Iran and N.Korea; marginalized Kim Jong Il. 16. Shunned Kyoto Treaty. 17. Lied about effects of man-made pollutants on the environment to support corporate pals. 18. Lied about the insolvency of Social Security. 19. Gave huge cuts to the wealthiest taxpayers. 20. Lied about true cost of health care bill. 21. Lied about Free Trade stand. 22. Bitterly divided the nation along religious, party and sexual preference lines. 23. Guilty of numerous cronyism appointments (Homeland Security, Supreme Court, etc) 24. Rewarded failures of Condi Rice and other cronies with key promotions. 25. Dreadful energy policies lead to record gas and oil prices. 26. Responsible for the largest debt in U.S. history. 27. Colossal failure of preparedness, rescue and relief during Hurricane Katrina. 28. Fostered a culture of corruption among GOP and top leadership (Tom Delay, etc). 29. Allowed Donald Rumsfeld to keep job despite utter failure in Iraq. 30. Presided over the U.S.'s lowest popularity throughout the world. 31. Saw No Child Left Behind fail. 32. Lied about Iraqi troop strength during Saturday radio address. Directly contradicted by testimony given earlier in the week by Gen. Abizaid.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: if the dems win the house and senate in Nov? it will be cuz oil is too expensive..
[ July 14, 2006, 03:39: Message edited by: Gordon Bennett ]
Posted by thinkmoney on :
If this escalates into a regional, possible all out...
Are our soldiers in Iraq vulnerable?
Posted by bdgee on :
Is a pig's a$$ pork?
Posted by thinkmoney on :
Miscalculation can be deadly for us...
Posted by thinkmoney on :
so..based on what we have to lose and w got nukes...
Do we want this to escalate?
Did iran want start this or is this a cover for Israel/usa to rid iran of nukes?
Posted by glassman on :
cover? as in fake? i don't think there's anything going on here but
T E R R O R I S T S
being stupid.. Iran has been fomenting as much trouble as they can in Iraq too...
this has got to stop...
Iran got on TV and said they want to wipe Israel off the Map... remember? was that fake? i don't think so...
N Korea? were their missile launches fake?
Hezbola has been claiming they are not the ones shooting into Haifa from lebanon... rumors are that its an Iranian group that's doing it...which makes sense cuz Hezbolah's rockets aren't good enought to reach Haifa..
Posted by bdgee on :
Diplomacy, not lame brained BS and bravado like "Bring it on!"
"Do we want this to escalate?"
NO! Some lame brained ego maniac other than the one we let gewt in the White House might loose his own nuclear mess if it escalates.
"Did iran want start this or is this a cover for Israel/usa to rid iran of nukes?"
How on Earth can the causes be limited to exacly those two possibilities? How do we know either or both of those possibilities is even operative?
DIPLOMACY!
DIPLOMACY!
Posted by glassman on :
they are snatching (kidnapping) people on the border and releasing PR's claiming they did it..
diplomacy? you want to negotiate with terrorists?
you see? this is the worst part of the real damage Bush's invasion of Iraq did...
people are now concerned about taking action when it IS NEEDED... reminds me of the boy who cried wolf....
hezbolah and hamas are ROGUE... and they are supported by Iran
Posted by bdgee on :
Sorry, Glass..., but action where? How? We don't know who really is involved. It will take some hard work and diplomacy to find out. Then too, what troups so we have to carry out any necessary retaliation?
Posted by glassman on :
bdgee. the Israelis have cut off escape from Lebanon so that hezbolah cant get their hosatges out..
that's the action....
in Palestine?
over the last year? Hamas has launched at least 1000 rockets into Israel....
these are cheap rockets that are nothing BUT terror tools...
last month? they dug a tunnel in to Israel and assulted a checkpoint and took a hostage
Hamas is no longer a shadowy group...they ran for offices and won, became part of the govt in Palestine and they attacked Israel...
you either believe in law and order or you don't...
Posted by glassman on :
Iran has just posted another PR
BEGGING to be hit...
Posted by rimasco on :
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: Sorry, Glass..., but action where? How? We don't know who really is involved. It will take some hard work and diplomacy to find out. Then too, what troups so we have to carry out any necessary retaliation?
Spoken like a true Lib. You should go to the "how do you train your dogs?" thread and read up on how these dogs should be dealt with. I am against the conflict but i feel Israel knows hitting hard will avoid some future conflicts.
Lets say rougue groups are responsible. Donzens of people have been killed, bridges, airport bombed. You dont think a portion of the lebanese are holding these "rogue groups" as responsible for this conflict. Which is leading to there country getting bombed out. You dont think this will make them think twice in the future?
Israel knows what its doing. These guys just gave Irsrael an opportunity to knock them back from the "crude missle" days, back to sling-shots and rock throwing days.
Posted by Up on :
Slightly off topic here but with all this unrest, is anyone other than me considering buying both put and call options on the market? The market is going to swing both ways based on the news coming out. Rumors of peace talks? Market skyrockets. Missles start flying in earnest? Market tanks. Hell, if the end is near anyway, we should at least all go down wealthy.
Posted by glassman on :
head of hezbolah in beirut MAY have been hit in missile attack on HQ....
Posted by rimasco on :
awwwWWWW!!
Posted by glassman on :
1 down(maybe?), a few thousand more to go...
Posted by glassman on :
AP says the dude made it after all... another example of why you have to check different sources all the time.. Fox "News" was reporting he was hit... Posted by rimasco on :
Now all they have to do is find the guy with the SINGED towel and beard
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
It already has been.
quote:Originally posted by thinkmoney: Miscalculation can be deadly for us...
Posted by HILANDER on :
Iran and Syria need to be dealt with once and for all. The are a big portion of why we are having problems still in Iraq. Suicide bombers? I would bet most of 'em ain't Iraqi. They were waaaaay to secular for that.
Posted by glassman on :
i agree Hilander...
we can't keep dragging this chit out..
Their own people's distrust of Dubya and Cheney is now a serious liability..
after 911 everybody was willing to do some difficult work and make some hard decisions.. now? all i hear is how can we negotiate our way out of this....
Posted by SuperSniper00 on :
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: Sorry, Glass..., but action where? How? We don't know who really is involved. It will take some hard work and diplomacy to find out. Then too, what troups so we have to carry out any necessary retaliation?
You are naive aren't you?
Just because YOU don't know who is responsible because the news didnt report it doesn't mean israeli intelligence doesn't know.
Diplomacy? You have got to be ****ting me. Israel has been trying to negotiate with these turds for YEARS. They even pulled out of Gaza to give these people their beloved palestine. Isreal needs to make a gigantic exclamation point.
You can't argue with a retard, and that is exactly what is going on. Mulims in the middle east do not want to go with diplomacy, they want Israel destroyed and gone forever, plain and simple.
Then when they do is poke at Israel and when Israel hits back fast and furious they get scared because they know israel would destory then...so to protect themselves they appeal to the international community and say 'ohhh israel is attacking innocent people' then all you liberal turds go, ohhhhh noooooo shame on you israel, show some restraint.
Diplomacy? We saw how far that got the europeans with nazi germany.
dont get me wrong, i dont like violence or war but seriously wake the hell up, these people dont think the same way we do
If another country came into america and kidnapped our soldiers, you really are telling me you want to sit there and talk about it?
That attitude will prove to be our downfall.
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
Israel has several War ships firing from offshore, but not very far offshore...
An Officer and another, didn't see rank, were on the fly bridge no helmut no hat no flack jacket, just loungin with arm over back of bench watching the ship fire off rounds...
Just how dumb is "Low belly la" has baa law or what they call themselves.
Posted by glassman on :
well they better get their flack gear back on...
hezbolah has some remote control airplane with some dynamite strapped on or some such nonesense...
they already hit one gunboat...
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
wierd, when did that thing hit? After FOX showed what I discribed?
Terror alert elevated here.
Posted by foxtrot6 on :
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: Among a few hundred other things. Here are just a few examples of some less amusing "Bushisms."
1. Lied about WMD. 2. Unilaterally invaded a sovereign nation without provocation and justification. 3. Lied during State of the Union speech re: Niger Uranium. 4. Responsible for pre-9/11 intelligence failures in White House, CIA, FBI. 5. Allowed 9-11 murderers to remain free while diverting precious military and financial resources to his vanity war in Iraq. 6. Lied about Saddam/bin Laden connection. 7. Turned Iraq into a terrorist breeding ground. 8. Lied about nation-building. 9. Opposed creation of 9-11 Commission and Homeland Security Department. 10. Disrespected and alienated the U.S. from French, German and other key allies. 11. Lied to Americans about the real cost of war. 12. Fostered an environment of torture at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo. 13. Lined Halliburton's pockets in Afghanistan and Iraq with fat no-bid contracts. 14. Under-manned and under-equipped our armed forces in Iraq, resulting in unnecessary death and injuries. 15. Ignored the nuclear build-up in both Iran and N.Korea; marginalized Kim Jong Il. 16. Shunned Kyoto Treaty. 17. Lied about effects of man-made pollutants on the environment to support corporate pals. 18. Lied about the insolvency of Social Security. 19. Gave huge cuts to the wealthiest taxpayers. 20. Lied about true cost of health care bill. 21. Lied about Free Trade stand. 22. Bitterly divided the nation along religious, party and sexual preference lines. 23. Guilty of numerous cronyism appointments (Homeland Security, Supreme Court, etc) 24. Rewarded failures of Condi Rice and other cronies with key promotions. 25. Dreadful energy policies lead to record gas and oil prices. 26. Responsible for the largest debt in U.S. history. 27. Colossal failure of preparedness, rescue and relief during Hurricane Katrina. 28. Fostered a culture of corruption among GOP and top leadership (Tom Delay, etc). 29. Allowed Donald Rumsfeld to keep job despite utter failure in Iraq. 30. Presided over the U.S.'s lowest popularity throughout the world. 31. Saw No Child Left Behind fail. 32. Lied about Iraqi troop strength during Saturday radio address. Directly contradicted by testimony given earlier in the week by Gen. Abizaid.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: if the dems win the house and senate in Nov? it will be cuz oil is too expensive..
I strongly agree with 13, 14, and 29. as for 10 who the hell needs ther french for anything? They are about the most worthless Allies we have. Even Gen Patton said once "Id rather have a German division to my front than a french division in the rear" The rest of your list makes me think youd rather wait for the enemy to cross our boarders befor we go after them. Its always better to fight in someone elses yard than our own.
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
All out War declared on Israel by Hezbollah...
While hollering Death to America....
Hezbollah in the U.S could spark, we need to pay attention....Acts of desperate fanatics must be considered.
We have never hit Hezbollah in return for anything they have ever done to us.."Fox News"
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
Missle fired at Israel's War Ship hit a Civilian Ship. War Ship hit earlier..
They are swaping Artillery and Katushya Rockets.. Israel firing Precision ordanance.
Many Air Missions..Looks to me like they just might fight it out this time, Lebanon seem's to be committing suicide..IMO
Syria states they will back Lebanon to the end..
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Yep dusty.. This is it
Posted by Sasquatch on :
Yah, They'll back em. But have you seen any movement in Syria? No? They are content to let the Lebanease die to stir up the hornets next until they have backers.
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
If the markets start going up? they are negotiating....If they completely "Blow um outa the water? the market goes up...
The longer they drag it out? Just more time for terrorist groups to have they're trigger pulled and Blow us away..
Posted by Sasquatch on :
I'm not for going in with American military now but I am for supporting Israel in the conflict. If Iran and Syria get into the mix though...I want us to slap them down hard!
Sas
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
I'd like a piece of um, the 'Barracks how many U.S ? 200+?
Posted by Up on :
quote:Originally posted by Sasquatch: I'm not for going in with American military now but I am for supporting Israel in the conflict. If Iran and Syria get into the mix though...I want us to slap them down hard!
Sas
Sure, but if Israel gets involved in a real sh-it storm, guess where we'll be? This really has the makings of #3.
Posted by glassman on :
here's the run-down dust.... On October 23, 1983, around 6:20 am, a yellow Mercedes-Benz delivery truck drove to Beirut International Airport, where the 1st Battalion 8th Marines, under the U.S. 2nd Marine Division of the United States Marines, had set up its local headquarters. The truck turned onto an access road leading to the Marines' compound and circled a parking lot. The driver then accelerated and crashed through a barbed wire fence around the parking lot, passed between two sentry posts, crashed through a gate and barreled into the lobby of the Marine headquarters. The Marine sentries at the gate had loaded pistols but were not able to stop the driver even though they shot at him. According to one Marine, the driver was smiling as he sped past him.
The suicide bomber detonated his explosives, which were equivalent to 12,000 pounds (about 5,400kg) of TNT. The force of the explosion collapsed the four-story cinder-block building into rubble, crushing many inside. The death toll was 241 American servicemen: 220 Marines, 18 Navy personnel and 3 Army soldiers. Sixty Americans were injured. In the attack on the French barracks, 58 paratroopers were killed and 15 injured. This was the deadliest single-day death toll for the United States Marine Corps since the Battle of Iwo Jima (2,500 in one day) of World War II. The attack remains the deadliest post-World War II attack on Americans overseas. Posted by glassman on :
In retaliation for the attacks, France launched an air strike in the Bekka Valley against Iranian Revolutionary Guard positions. President Reagan assembled his national security team and planned to target the Sheik Abdullah barracks in Baalbek, Lebanon, which housed Iranian Revolutionary Guards believed to be training Hezbollah fighters. But Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger aborted the mission, reportedly because of his concerns that it would harm U.S. relations with other Arab nations.
when people start talking about revisionist historians?
the first people i think of are the chickenhawks we have right now...
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
Violence raging' did ya catch that?
This one has an intensity that just could be contagious...
Dow 400 point drop in one week, 400 in one day ?????..hmmmm
Posted by SuperSniper00 on :
This is going to get real sticky with 130K troops sitting between Iran and Israel.
Posted by glassman on :
*news flash*
Pat Roberston's face appears in sky above Israel
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
LOL The anti christ has been revealed..lol
Posted by Up on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: *news flash*
Pat Roberston's face appears in sky above Israel
Was he blowing the horn?
Posted by glassman on :
LOL, UP, do you read Wheel of Time too?
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
Must be watching Fox news again.LOL
Posted by Up on :
Well, I'm still here, so is my wife, dog is missing though. Are animals supposed to be raptured or did he just run away again?
Posted by glassman on :
i was just surfin' thru the channels and noticed 700 club...
we have all them shows here in MS...
made me think of how excited ol' Pat must be this week....
i bet he's peeing his pants with anticipation....
Posted by T e x on :
quote:Originally posted by Blue Marlin': If the markets start going up? they are negotiating....If they completely "Blow um outa the water? the market goes up...
The longer they drag it out? Just more time for terrorist groups to have they're trigger pulled and Blow us away..
ya... markets...
if markets take big enough hit?
retaliation will take on a whole new meaning
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
That was an unmaned "packed with explosives" airplane that hit the ship, fella's.
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: i was just surfin' thru the channels and noticed 700 club...
we have all them shows here in MS...
made me think of how excited ol' Pat must be this week....
i bet he's peeing his pants with anticipation....
Which oddly enough is an entirely different reason than the one he usually has for such incontinence.
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
quote:Originally posted by Blue Marlin': Violence raging' did ya catch that?
This one has an intensity that just could be contagious...
Dow 400 point drop in one week, 400 in one day ?????..hmmmm
------------------------------------------------- Tex, exactly....
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
That ascending wedge pattern is starting to make alot more sense now.. the DOW and the Nasdaq both.. bearish reversal pattern.. I was wondering what would trigger it...
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
Yep. The average "Joe" just takes this with " well hell" I'm protecting my money, playing it close to the vest..And by G.. he better.
Posted by glassman on :
NOW? they are reporting that hezbolah hit a civilain ship with an unmanned aircraft rigged with exlopsives...
in addition to the Israeli warship...
civilian ship may be Egyptian...
hezbolah is gonna need to retreat all the way to Teheran if they keep this up...
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
am I on ignore? I posted that just a bit ago...LOL,,,Orrrrrr are you on time delay?
Egyption, now there is a twist, geez war can thro some curve balls.
Posted by glassman on :
nope, not in iggy Marly just trying to figure out how many ships were hit...
MSNBC says it may have been a rocket not airplane...
lotta confusion...
the confusion will prolly get worse too..
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
This thing is starting to act like a War now.. This is how it starts, with rapid fire changing events and confusion..
Watch for Korea and Putin to do something..
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Putin might wait for Iran.. Iran should be the next to act.
Posted by glassman on :
you guys still think Putin is our enemy? Bush's looked into his eyes, remeber? Putin is Bush "special" friend....
look they are even wearing matching pajammys...
Bush is at sleepover at Putins house right now..... if Putin was gonna do something? i think he'd do it now don't you?
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
keep your friends close.. keep your enemies closer.
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
How about a little push from Coastal N.E. Africa. Be advised to look for anything outside of this expanding Box.
Posted by glassman on :
i think they are deciding how to split up the cake DQ... terrorism has been good for Putins oil biz... no doubt, but the Russians and the Chinese both realise actual WW is bad for profits...they want just enough trouble to make good profits...
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
glass, any questions about command..Bush is way outa of his play pen...
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Well there is good news.. if this thing ramps up rather quickly into an all out world war.. that idiot munchkin man will finally stop emailing me. Up to twenty emails so far.
Posted by glassman on :
man, that picture is a little odd
they really are looking right into each others eyes and Bush is spinning his wedding band...
what does that mean... nerves?
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
RD, maybe it's really Bush?
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Glass, I'm not sure I share your optimism.. I think that given the chance both China and Russia would like us out of the picture.
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
glas, looks like an Oh' O...He looks startled again and scart!
Posted by glassman on :
i know, DQR but we have the finest sub fleet on the planet... that's our ace in the hole...
our real problems are these guys that don't have anything to live for...
they just ain't right.....
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
India and Pakistan, China and Russia?
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
Targeets of opertunity everywhere!
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: i know, DQR but we have the finest sub fleet on the planet... that's our ace in the hole...
He still has his too.. The rumors about russia's demillitarization.. are just that. We can still whip them... but they are not without teeth.
Posted by glassman on :
Pakistan.... a real mysterious problem...
i don't like how we have let them play on....
Posted by glassman on :
quote:He still has his too.. The rumors about russia's demillitarization.. are just that. We can still whip them... but they are not without teeth.
true, but they had cash flow problems that led to maintenace problems... their fleet is not gone, but it was never up to our level, and isn't now....
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
Don't forget about a major terrorist hits combined in a 4TH of July like' mass attack all over the World.
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Yeah they were doing ALOT of bluffing
Posted by glassman on :
guys, calm down a little... this week is actually setting up the scenario for a good shot at Iran's nuke hardware IMO....
they are the ones asking for it... actually i think they are begging
Putin has oil... it's in his interest to see less oil on the market.. i doubt he'd over react.. yes he's bound to put on a stern face and make some noise... it will be expensive to mess up Irans infrastructure, but sometimes? you just have to pay the price...
we can't afford for them Ayatolahs to become nukular at this point in history
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
mmmm.. no I think this one is a little bigger than that glass.
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
I don't think we better think 911 was the big one..
By design, they escalate.
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
I'm telling ya, this series of events is differant...It is Global.
Once sparked? several weeks of Ka--ous, then the grind will begin..Years of fighting is on the way..
Posted by glassman on :
i didn't say calm down and forget about it...
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
yup... This is the one Israel is not going to back away from.. Our enemies are going to use this as an excuse.. at some point.. to get rid of us. Time to really check out global wind patterns for fall out.. Glass being as you are right below Memphis you might be in a bit of trouble.. The winds are westerly so your exposure might.. just might be limited, but I should imagine you will still get some fallout from the bases attacked in Texas. Depending on if the ruskies updated their targeting agenda, I'm in trouble if NO gets hit...
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
RD, Dow-----------> 500
lol
then---------> 2500?
Posted by Dustoff 1 on :
nasdaq?
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
The pattern I'm seeing is on a monthly chart so it's possible we will see a major dip.. To be honest.. if you look at a monthly or even a yearly chart.. there hasn't really ever been a downtrend in the stock market. I'm predicting the first one.
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Actually, if you look at the monthly on the DOW. Volume is the lowest it has been in ten years.
Posted by glassman on :
yep, the volume just fell right off for five weeks
July 11, 2006 09:57
Today Bush is claiming his economic policies have rescued America from the terrible recession he inherited...
he claims his policies have led to an increase in tax revenues thru economic growth...
pro-growth economic policies have saved the day...
well? he's not being very honest...
the economy is growing alright... the OIL economy
he's trying to be cheerleader again?
Posted by HILANDER on :
Suppose I should really get my Bradley dialed in and ready to go. Dammit, I finally get a job I really like and now it looks like I may get to go play again. Oh well. Oh and the pic of Putin and Bush. It's obvious, Bush is scared to death of the former master-spy that is running Russia. Speaking of Russia, saw an old Russian proverb on the wall in the ready room at my friends unit. To paraphrase it said something to the effect of shake your enemies hand and assure him you are friends and with the other hand be prepared ot stab him in the back. It's not the Russians we need to worry about though, it's the Chinese. They are already operating in South America.
Posted by glassman on :
Chavez is a shiyit...
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
I can't blame them at all.. I haven't made a trade in a week.. I was long on the buck against the yen last week at 113.92.. sold it a day later when this thing started to really heat up. I haven't any desire to expose myself to the erratic possibilities.
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
quote:he's trying to be cheerleader again?
He's screwed... cheerleaders have to be able to spell...
Posted by Dustoff 1 on :
RD,mise well predict something...At least get people thinking things will not just stumble along forever without consequence.....
Market has a deep uncertain feel to it...Older than most around here, been 'round plenty of money people....I remember how they would take a beating in a realastate deal, and their attitude was head back to the markets to get well. Funny thing? many of them did just that..That easy in those days. There attitude was hit the Bar have a few and then get to work just like a job with a large paycheck to go to..Man those guys were good at it...They wound up millionares..
'Last call to Hawaii to some of the old crowd ?---> "it's not that easy anymore " To much illegal control, to many banks messing with things, and way to much internet to develope a company into a good stock ..From the arrow on are the words of an old trader, who yes, is a millionare.
Posted by glassman on :
this guy is the one of the biggest jerks on TV... Cut and Run Investors Friday, July 14, 2006 By Neil Cavuto
Imagine for a moment if our soldiers acted like our investors.
If, at the first sign of trouble, they bolted. If under fire, they ran. If, when everything was hitting the fan, they hit the road.
this wussy sits at his desk pumping crap like this out?
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
quote:Originally posted by Dustoff 1: RD,mise well predict something...At least get people thinking things will not just stumble along forever without consequence.....
Market has a deep uncertain feel to it...Older than most around here, been 'round plenty of money people....I remember how they would take a beating in a realastate deal, and their attitude was head back to the markets to get well. Funny thing? many of them did just that..That easy in those days. There attitude was hit the Bar have a few and then get to work just like a job with a large paycheck to go to..Man those guys were good at it...They wound up millionares..
'Last call to Hawaii to some of the old crowd ?---> "it's not that easy anymore " To much illegal control, to many banks messing with things, and way to much internet to develope a company into a good stock ..From the arrow on are the words of an old trader, who yes, is a millionare.
Precisely the reason I left stocks for currencies. And also precisely the reason I fight for honesty in stocks, still.
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Glass, Cavuto is a chucklehead.
Posted by glassman on :
you forgot the hedge funds that have no rules....
cavuto is a pudgy wuss...
WTF does this mean anyway? I sometimes wonder what these men and women who risk so much would think of hotshot investors who get paid so much. Hotshots who run, when heroes stay. Hotshots who get out of Dodge, when the heroes stay to protect Dodge.
lets pay the soldiers?/lets fund the VA properly? no, he's just waving a flag while he whines....
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
what? curing pennies of all ills isn't enough for you? Now I have to cure hedge funds too? Some people are just never happy.
Editing your post half way through my response is just below table. But yeah you're right.. the comparison he's making does not exsist..
Posted by glassman on :
LOL...
i would just be happy to see nekked shorting ended...
the crooks in the pennies would have a harder time with the P&D then...
Posted by glassman on :
sorry, not trying to cut below...
it's an old habit that i got into, editing my spelling and then i think of something else andthen and then and well you know
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Nekkid shorting isn't that big a deal.. it happens but for the most part it's just an excuse made by guys like maxy. Blame the other guy.. blame what can't be fixed..
How's about this? Allow shorting of all pennies...
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: sorry, not trying to cut below...
it's an old habit that i got into, editing my spelling and then i think of something else andthen and then and well you know
Oh I know.. I've been watching you do it for years.. you have no idea how many posts I deleted because you completely changed your post after I had my reply written.. LOL
Posted by glassman on :
you mean let the retail players have the same access as the wholesalers?
why not?
the problem i see is that the brokers don't keep good enough track of what they have in-house...
when i say nekkid shorting? i don't mean "evil MM's" like the whiners mean...
i mean these guys (Amtrd Etrd Sctrd) aren't keeping track of the proper number of shares...
i have watched the MM's sell/trade shares that aren't issued yet....
and why is it that big dilution has a runup to get ready for the dump? SMTR was a textbook case last year... i got out when i saw them preparing to issue a few hundred million shares... next thing is ee after i get out? it's running up like mad and on the SHO list.... that and a few other cases is why i don't want to give picks anymore.... none of it seems to make sense unless you say that it's all "fixed" by just a few pwople...
Posted by Dustoff 1 on :
you forgot the hedge funds that have no rules....
who is you talking talking toooooooooo lol what context?
Posted by glassman on :
i played several "problem stocks" last year to TRY to learn what's really going on... BCIT is one... BCIT is a long, complicated, interesting story...
what i think i learned from it is that some brokerages don't even bother to actually buy your stock if you are in a margin account....
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Yeah, the solution is an automated system of some sort.. TA registers such and such number of shares and then that's all there is.. I wouldn't trust the SEC with this of course. But to take some of the pressure off of MM's I think the only answer is to allow us to short pennies.. Think about it.. MM's main gripe is they have to scam us so they can provide liquidity.. Let us provide our own liquidity...
Posted by glassman on :
well? all i can say is that if a broker didn't force you to have CASH reserves to short pennies? the brokers could get hurt bad too....
the risk in shorting a 1 cent stock and having it go to a dollar before a margin call could be executed is UFB....
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Fail safes from the broker.. much like I have with forex.. I trade forex with 400:1 margin... do the math.. If I screw up.. I'm done.. unless they have failsafe forced outs.
Posted by glassman on :
they can't even keep up with long trading....
today? Ameriturd was down for an hour...
Scotrade won't let you trade splits until they get shares from DTCC, while Ameritrade will let you trade onthe exdate....
currency has more weight to it.... the better countries anywy
just making sure the float is identified and managed on each and every OTCBB would be near impossible....
i'd love to see that happen tho
Posted by glassman on :
did you see the story on PAIV?
supposedlyameritrade allowed their customers to sell several billion share of restricted stock by accident...now? the rumor is a forced buyback... i don't believe it.... but that's what the story is right now....
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Completely different system is needed.. Something automated, where the company is no different than any of us in their offering or their demand. Obviously they would be able to up their supply.. but that supply would be stated, with automated records kept. We need a common hub of exchange... Drop the SEC from the equation. The point is that we take government out of the picture.. Just us and the companies with a common hub of some sort... The nature of the hub? How to keep said hub neutral? beats me as of yet.. but I am certain we'll figure it out... tomorrow. as I have to recede to bed as the child laden wife is now angered beyond a rose's charm. It's all Glass' fault. Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Report: Israel gives Syria ultimatum
London-based Arabic language newspaper Al-Hayat says Israel gave Syria 72 hours to stop Hizbullah’s activity, bring about release of kidnapped IDF troops. ‘Israel will not end military activity until new situation created that will prevent Syria, Iran from using terror organizations to threaten its security,’ newspaper quotes Pentagon official as saying Roee Nahmias
The London-based Arabic language newspaper Al-Hayat reported Saturday that “Washington has information according to which Israel gave Damascus 72 hours to stop Hizbullah’s activity along the Lebanon-Israel border and bring about the release the two kidnapped IDF soldiers or it would launch an offensive with disastrous consequences.”
The report said “a senior Pentagon source warned that should the Arab world and international community fail in the efforts to convince Syria to pressure Hizbullah into releasing the soldiers and halt the current escalation Israel may attack targets in the country.”
Al-Hayat quoted the source as saying that “the US cannot rule out the possibility of an Israeli strike in Syria,” this despite the fact that the Bush administration has asked Israel to “refrain from any military activity that may result in civilian casualties.”
'Hizbullah made the same mistake'
The report also mentioned that President George W. Bush has repeatedly put much of the blame for the recent escalation on Syria.
“It is no coincidence that the Hizbullah operation comes at a time when the international community is working to impose sanctions on Iran due to its nuclear program and settle the score with Syria by establishing an international court to try those behind the assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri,” the Pentagon source said.
According to the source, Hizbullah made the same mistake as Hamas when it did not predict the ramifications of its actions and ignored the regional and international changes since the fall of Saddam Hussein.
The source said that Israel has indicated that it “will not end its military activity until a new situation is created that will prevent Syria and Iran from using terror organizations, such as Hamas and Hizbullah, to threaten its security.”
Posted by Dustoff 1 on :
Whats this about a cease fire? does haz-bee-a-la Think they can just take a siesta when they feel like it!LOL
Iranian Missle hit the ship, fired from Lebanon by Iranian experts...
Posted by Dustoff 1 on :
bump
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
The offer came from lebanon.. Israel says nothing stops till hezbollah stops first.
Posted by glassman on :
yeah, watching...
ceasefire?
return the kidnapped hostages...
looks like the patriot missile system is gonna get a real-time test in Haifa now...
Posted by Dustoff 1 on :
Well, here's the chance to give a little visit to Iran...Maybe fly um in a nice new shiney present.
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
a glass desert is the only thing that will put a smile on my face.
Posted by Dustoff 1 on :
well it sure would be shiney, alright..stained glass?
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
red I'm thinking. Now that would be one hell of a skate park.
Posted by Dustoff 1 on :
you mean they really are commies!
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: i think they are deciding how to split up the cake DQ... terrorism has been good for Putins oil biz... no doubt, but the Russians and the Chinese both realise actual WW is bad for profits...they want just enough trouble to make good profits...
OK, the UN is about to vote on strong sanctions against N Korea...
this will be pivotal...
we can expect to get an idea of whether the US/Russia/China coalition is here or not...
i'm betting that we are going to work together
Posted by glassman on :
sounds like it passed... China has condemned N Korea....
now, to send a similar/stronger message to the Ayatoluhs?
lets hope
Posted by Livinonklendathu on :
Unanimous too - nice show of strength.
Posted by Dustoff 1 on :
watch for Putin to leverage a power point on something..
NKA, goose steping right into oblivion
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
it was fluff.. no real sanctions..
Posted by glassman on :
of course he will...
what have i been screaming bloody murder about for two years now?
we took Iraq....
i know, iknow...we did it cuz we are nice guys who just want poor people to have better life (yukyuk)
what does Putin want?
i don't know what he WANTS, but i am confident that he DOES NOT want lower oil prices....
Posted by Dustoff 1 on :
putin wants total power..KGB he knows his game.
Posted by glassman on :
how far does he want to reach?
maybe we should offer him Teheran? we can be neighbors...
Posted by Leo on :
Not a bad idea Glassman, US and Russia haven't done any REAL world carving since post WWII(1945-46)
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
NK has already rejected this fluff resolution.. to war to war.. to war we go
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
You sound gleeful. Got kids?
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Sure do.. and yes I am filled with glee. It's going to happen anyway Gordo.. I'm researching global wind patterns and looking at some eddies and radiation free zones.. Gotta be prepared.
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Friday that Israel could not harm Iran, even as it expanded its offensive into Lebanon to target the Iranian-backed Hizbullah, the official Islamic Republic News Agency reported.
"Despite the barbaric and criminal nature of the occupiers of Jerusalem, the regime and its Western supporters do not even have the power to give Iran a nasty look," the agency quoted Ahmadinejad as saying in Osku, in northwestern Iran.
His declaration came just hours after he warned Israel against extending its Lebanon assault into neighboring Syria, saying such a move would be seen as an attack against the whole Islamic world. Ahmadinejad made those comments in a telephone conversation with Syrian President Bashar Assad, to assure him of his support, IRNA reported.
Syria and Shi'ite Muslim Iran are allies, and together are the top backers of the Shi'ite Hizbullah guerrilla group in Lebanon.
Israel has intensified its attacks on Lebanon, striking bridges, airports and the main highway leading to Syria to put pressure on the government and force Hizbullah to free the two Israeli soldiers it kidnapped in a cross-border attack on Wednesday.
Ahmadinejad also said attacks and threats against Lebanon and Syria prove that Israel's "fake regime" would not survive under peaceful conditions, and he urged Israel's allies to stop supporting its military operations.
"One day all supporters of Israel, especially the US, should be held accountable," he said.
He held Israel responsible for unjust conditions in neighboring countries, saying Israel's "impudence and shamelessness" help deny the region of advanced technology.
"Opposition to Iran's achievements toward peaceful nuclear technology is an example," Ahmadinejad said.
Iran is under international pressure to suspend its nuclear program and resume negotiations over a package of incentives offered last month by permanent members of the UN Security Council plus Germany. The Islamic country could face punishment by the council if it rejects the package.
The US accuses Iran of using its civilian nuclear program as a cover to build weapons. Teheran has denied the charges, saying its nuclear program is geared only toward generating electricity.
Iran and Israel have been archenemies since Iran's 1979 Islamic revolution, which toppled a pro-Western monarchy and installed an anti-Western clerical establishment in Teheran.
In April, Iran said it would give the Palestinian Authority US$50 million in aid after the terror group Hamas won power in Palestinian parliamentary elections.
Iran threatened Israel in May that it would be Iran's first retaliatory target in response to any US attack.
Last year, Ahmadinejad said the Holocaust was a myth and that Israel should be wiped out.
It's Our War Bush should go to Jerusalem--and the U.S. should confront Iran. by William Kristol 07/24/2006, Volume 011, Issue 42
WHY IS THIS ARAB-ISRAELI WAR different from all other Arab-Israeli wars? Because it's not an Arab-Israeli war. Most of Israel's traditional Arab enemies have checked out of the current conflict. The governments of Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia are, to say the least, indifferent to the fate of Hamas and Hezbollah. The Palestine Liberation Organization (Fatah) isn't a player. The prime mover behind the terrorist groups who have started this war is a non-Arab state, Iran, which wasn't involved in any of Israel's previous wars.
What's happening in the Middle East, then, isn't just another chapter in the Arab-Israeli conflict. What's happening is an Islamist-Israeli war. You might even say this is part of the Islamist war on the West--but is India part of the West? Better to say that what's under attack is liberal democratic civilization, whose leading representative right now happens to be the United States.
An Islamist-Israeli conflict may or may not be more dangerous than the old Arab-Israeli conflict. Secular Arab nationalism was, after all, also capable of posing an existential threat to Israel. And the Islamist threat to liberal democracy may or may not turn out to be as dangerous as the threats posed in the last century by secular forms of irrationalism (fascism) and illiberalism (communism). But it is a new and different threat. One needs to keep this in mind when trying to draw useful lessons from our successes, and failures, in dealing with the threats of the 20th century.
Here, however, is one lesson that does seem to hold: States matter. Regimes matter. Ideological movements become more dangerous when they become governing regimes of major nations. Communism became really dangerous when it seized control of Russia. National socialism became really dangerous when it seized control of Germany. Islamism became really dangerous when it seized control of Iran--which then became, as it has been for the last 27 years, the Islamic Republic of Iran.
No Islamic Republic of Iran, no Hezbollah. No Islamic Republic of Iran, no one to prop up the Assad regime in Syria. No Iranian support for Syria (a secular government that has its own reasons for needing Iranian help and for supporting Hezbollah and Hamas), little state sponsorship of Hamas and Hezbollah. And no Shiite Iranian revolution, far less of an impetus for the Saudis to finance the export of the Wahhabi version of Sunni Islam as a competitor to Khomeini's claim for leadership of militant Islam--and thus no Taliban rule in Afghanistan, and perhaps no Hamas either.
It's of course true that Hamas--an arm of the Sunni Muslim Brotherhood--is at odds ideologically with Shia Iran, and that Shia and Sunni seem inclined to dislike, even slaughter, each other elsewhere in the Middle East. But temporary alliances of convenience are no less dangerous because they are temporary. Tell the Poles of 1939, and the French of 1940, that they really had little to worry about because the Nazi-Soviet pact was bound to fall apart.
The war against radical Islamism is likely to be a long one. Radical Islamism isn't going away anytime soon. But it will make a big difference how strong the state sponsors, harborers, and financiers of radical Islamism are. Thus, our focus should be less on Hamas and Hezbollah, and more on their paymasters and real commanders--Syria and Iran. And our focus should be not only on the regional war in the Middle East, but also on the global struggle against radical Islamism.
For while Syria and Iran are enemies of Israel, they are also enemies of the United States. We have done a poor job of standing up to them and weakening them. They are now testing us more boldly than one would have thought possible a few years ago. Weakness is provocative. We have been too weak, and have allowed ourselves to be perceived as weak.
The right response is renewed strength--in supporting the governments of Iraq and Afghanistan, in standing with Israel, and in pursuing regime change in Syria and Iran. For that matter, we might consider countering this act of Iranian aggression with a military strike against Iranian nuclear facilities. Why wait? Does anyone think a nuclear Iran can be contained? That the current regime will negotiate in good faith? It would be easier to act sooner rather than later. Yes, there would be repercussions--and they would be healthy ones, showing a strong America that has rejected further appeasement.
But such a military strike would take a while to organize. In the meantime, perhaps President Bush can fly from the silly G8 summit in St. Petersburg--a summit that will most likely convey a message of moral confusion and political indecision--to Jerusalem, the capital of a nation that stands with us, and is willing to fight with us, against our common enemies. This is our war, too.
I like that article. It really sums up the situation.
No Iran...no problems.
I think we can use Iraq to prove that. The people fighting in Iraq are hardly the Iraqis themselves. Turds from Syria and Iran are inciting insurgencies. the only time iraqis become insurgents is because they were loyal to Saddam or they just saw some idiot marines light up their family so they join the cause. the overall consensus in the country is that they want to live in peace and freedom.
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
500 Israelis injured so far...
Martial law declared in North...
Israel deploys Patriot missiles in Haifa...
Putin: Israel may be pursuing wider goals than return of abducted soldiers...
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Was listening to Glen Beck's show from Friday and I think.. as usual he hit the nail on the head when he said... This is ALL a setup. Iran is setting Israel up.
Posted by Leo on :
Bump again
Posted by rimasco on :
quote:Originally posted by Relentless Despot.: Was listening to Glen Beck's show from Friday and I think.. as usual he hit the nail on the head when he said... This is ALL a setup. Iran is setting Israel up.
Trust me...the only thing Iran is setting Israel up for is to have themselves blown back to biblical times...HOW THEY LIKE IT!
65% of Irans population is 25yrs old or younger and THEY WANT THERE MTV DAMMIT! The Mullahs are trying to galvanize there youth because they know their country is slipping!
I've been saying for three years, drop some MTV on their azzes, and some mp3, and they'll figure it out.
Posted by rimasco on :
Along with Jenna J's BOMBS!!
Posted by Leo on :
pa dow, how do ya like me now../ oh yaaa
Posted by Sasquatch on :
Shouldn't be much longer now. Wonder if the penny market will echo the dow when war is declared or if our little startups and scams will go on uneffected?
Thank God I live in the city. I think we will see $4-$5 gas here soon. MY feet will get a little sore but better that than my wallet.
Posted by Leo on :
Thank goodness you don't live within sight (or smell) of a refinery, you'd be paying top dollar. Apparently if you have to have the gas shipped to you, it gets cheaper by the mile.,
Posted by Sasquatch on :
LOL night guys.
Posted by glassman on :
65% of Irans population is 25yrs old or younger and THEY WANT THERE MTV DAMMIT! The Mullahs are trying to galvanize there youth because they know their country is slipping!
yes,
and?
as you watch the pictures of crowded residential areas in Lebanon?
you need to remeber that Hezbolah launches rockets out of these buildings....
they have rockets and launchers stashed in civilian areas....
the rockets are NOTHING but terrorist tools...they have no gudance...once lit? they just go and drop wherever they are pointed......
the Iraq war has weakened the will of many people to fight terroism, NOT because war weakens peoples will, but because CERTAIN buttheads have been trying to defend there desire to go to war in iraq with anti-terrorism propaganda...
do not allow yourself to be confused about the difference....
hezbolah and hamas are terrorist organisations....
Israel is striking terrorists sites...
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Don't forget Iraq was aiding these very terrorists before we took Saddam out of the picture
Posted by glassman on :
LOL, and taking sadam out really hurt them?
like i said? i'm not anti-war.. i just think there's better ways to fight than we have...
we could have recruited hollywood to work on movies that changed percerptions, for instance..
you can take polls all over the world outside the US... even in Britain, our closest ally?, people balme Bush for making terrorism worse.... i guess the GOP base is the only group of people on the planet that know the truth.... Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
I don't give a rat's a$$ what the world thinks. By all counts the rest of the world is one toilet and three stop signs from being third world. The rest of the world is ruled by europansy mentalities. We did not make terrorism worse.. we just exposed what was already there.
Posted by HILANDER on :
All I gotta say is.....Iran MAY have nukes. We all know Israel DOES have nukes.
Posted by glassman on :
I don't give a rat's a$$ what the world thinks.
oh, i know DQ, so do the terrorists Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Glass, the world is uniting against us.. why should we care what they think or say? I am damned tired of being forced to embrace the whimsical moods of our enemies.. Words, kind looks, and infinite hugs have done nothing.. Lets give bombs a shot. I am tired of the *****footing around.. it IS time for a face to face fight.
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Preventing this war is impossible at this point, so trying to lay the blame upon me is moronic at best. My point was that there is good that will come from this war.. As usual you fail to see reality. American arrogance is the only reason you didn't type that witless excuse for a post in german.
Posted by glassman on :
weyell? it's hard to make profit in full scale WW...
the trick is to keep a few smaal localised wars going so the warpigs can make their good profit without having too much collateral damage...
the bad guys? they've been using the pictures to recruit....
most people know this....Bush seemed to think that somehow this wouldn't be a problem...
iran is now making triple oil the profit they were making just a couple years ago....
who is paying for that? not the creepy neo-cons that got this war... they are making more capital gains...
sadam was sending some token money to hamas...
NOT hezbolah... hezbolah is iranian...
you see? the game is NOT friggin CHECKERS
this game is not for idiots... and quite frankly? the idiots have been chasing the smart ones out of the govt as fast as they can....
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Lay blame upon you?
LOL You're a joke.
quote:Originally posted by Relentless Despot.: Preventing this war is impossible at this point, so trying to lay the blame upon me is moronic at best. My point was that there is good that will come from this war.. As usual you fail to see reality. American arrogance is the only reason you didn't type that witless excuse for a post in german.
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
and you are a moron. Continue telling people that a hug will solve the problems. Side with the enemy and I will delight when this country again has the courage to execute traitors.
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Yes glass, the game is chess.. I know many fail to see that fact. Many fail to see why we have made the moves we have. Taking Saddam out of the picture before all of this started was the right move. If you remember a year or two back I suggested that part of going to Iraq was to aid Israel when we took their gloves off...
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
And I will delight when coward moderators, like you, don't delete posts you disagree with.
quote:Originally posted by Relentless Despot.: and you are a moron. Continue telling people that a hug will solve the problems. Side with the enemy and I will delight when this country again has the courage to execute traitors.
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
You posted a pm without my permission you knuckle draggin tree molesting twit..
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
So a hug and WWIII are the only choices in your eyes? You must live in constant fear. That's punishment enough for a fascist, I guess.
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
so what is your solution, commie? Hugs aren't enough? Gentle a$$ graps might be needed as well? I know no solution you will offer will have anything to do with defeating our enemies.. so let's have it.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Is the potential (unlikely) realization of the "key ideals" of which you speak worth millions of deaths (maybe yours, and/or your family), and the destruction of the environment caused by cesium-137 fallout (a gamma emitter with a half-life of 30 years) and other toxins?
Commie and fascist pig notwithstanding, it's interesting, and a good example of the New American Right's (Reich's?) arrogance, that you say "those of us who survive" as though you are certain you will be one of them.
Rest assured that Hitler was as confident of Germany's victory in WWII as you are about the USA's in WWIII.
quote:Originally posted by Relentless. (in a PM to Gordon Bennett): You said yesterday I seemed almost gleefull about the coming world war.. I am actually.. but not because I want death for millions, and not because I'm a war monger.. But because of what will result from this war. You as a commie and me as a facist pig want pretty much the same thing.. A new government. Ours has become way too strong... Not because of bush or any of the others.. but because of our laziness as a people.. The problem now is there is no way votes will correct our government's dirrection.. but a third world war will. This thing is going to go nuclear and when it does those of us who survive will have a chance to reform into a nation with a small government. A nation where the key ideals that define a liberal and a so-called conservative are embraced.
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
what's your solution to the problem, commie? Answer the question.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Why? You'll only delete it, you coward.
quote:Originally posted by Relentless Despot.: so what is your solution, commie? Hugs aren't enough? Gentle a$$ graps might be needed as well? I know no solution you will offer will have anything to do with defeating our enemies.. so let's have it.
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
come on commie.. tell us how you would put sanctions on Israel just before you forced all jews out of Israel in the hopes Europe would take them in.. Tell us how you would do anything you could to make islamists happy..
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
I have better things to do than try to reason with a Michael Savage, Relentless Coward.
quote:Originally posted by Relentless Despot.: come on commie.. tell us how you would put sanctions on Israel just before you forced all jews out of Israel in the hopes Europe would take them in.. Tell us how you would do anything you could to make islamists happy..
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Tell us Israel's aggression is the problem.. come on commie.. tell us all how you despise all jews.. how they are the only problem in this world. You won't will you.. Why? Because you are nutless.. you whisper behind people's backs.. but as soon as they turn around you become panty wet fearfull and run away... Stand up for who you are.. Be proud of your antisemetic beliefs. And I will be proud that you will become yet another notch.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
I'm Jewish, coward. What a maroon! LOL
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
That's right.. fulfill expectations by calling me some ill conceived.. poorly used name and then run away... Do what you do best.. Run from me. You are right to fear me.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
I don't fear you. I laugh at you.
Your Jewish Pal,
-Gordo
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
You are not jewish... far from it
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Now you dare deny me my ancestry, coward?
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
I deny you the right to descrate a brave people.. You attempt to use your enemy as a shield.. Pathetic
Posted by glassman on :
If you remember a year or two back I suggested that part of going to Iraq was to aid Israel when we took their gloves off...
yes, and at first? i also believed we were "setting a trap" for wolverines...
BUT?
this admin has been exposed for what it is...
i don't like having to point out all this BS...
i wish it wasn't a problem...
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
I am Jewish, coward. Hey! Is this an attempt to get me to show you my p**s? If so, NO DICE! LOL
quote:Originally posted by Relentless Despot.: I deny you the right to descrate a brave people.. You attempt to use your enemy as a shield.. Pathetic
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: If you remember a year or two back I suggested that part of going to Iraq was to aid Israel when we took their gloves off...
yes, and at first? i also believed we were "setting a trap" for wolverines...
BUT?
this admin has been exposed for what it is...
i don't like having to point out all this BS...
i wish it wasn't a problem...
Oh yeah, I know.. there's no doubt Bush screwed it up badly. He was the wrong president at this time.. Gore would have done no better, neither would any of the other runners.. Don't know what the answer is really.
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: I am Jewish, coward. Hey! Is this an attempt to get me to show you my p**s? If so, NO DICE! LOL
quote:Originally posted by Relentless Despot.: I deny you the right to descrate a brave people.. You attempt to use your enemy as a shield.. Pathetic
Funny that you always follw Jewish with the word coward...
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
I'm referring to you, Relentless Coward.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Yes you do! WWIII, remember?
quote:Originally posted by Relentless Despot.: Don't know what the answer is really.
quote:Originally posted by Relentless. (in a PM to Gordon Bennett): You said yesterday I seemed almost gleefull about the coming world war.. I am actually.. but not because I want death for millions, and not because I'm a war monger.. But because of what will result from this war. You as a commie and me as a facist pig want pretty much the same thing.. A new government. Ours has become way too strong... Not because of bush or any of the others.. but because of our laziness as a people.. The problem now is there is no way votes will correct our government's dirrection.. but a third world war will. This thing is going to go nuclear and when it does those of us who survive will have a chance to reform into a nation with a small government. A nation where the key ideals that define a liberal and a so-called conservative are embraced.
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Gordo, you have no solution.. All you want is for Israel to be conquered.. And you will desecrate their bravery by masking yourself as a jew in the hopes of gaining a foothold in an argument you are losing... badly.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
I have yet to argue as you have no valid points. I want Israel to be neither conqueror nor conquered.
quote:Originally posted by Relentless Despot.: Gordo, you have no solution.. All you want is for Israel to be conquered.. And you will desecrate their bravery by masking yourself as a jew in the hopes of gaining a foothold in an argument you are losing... badly.
quote:Originally posted by Relentless. (in a PM to Gordon Bennett): You said yesterday I seemed almost gleefull about the coming world war.. I am actually.. but not because I want death for millions, and not because I'm a war monger.. But because of what will result from this war. You as a commie and me as a facist pig want pretty much the same thing.. A new government. Ours has become way too strong... Not because of bush or any of the others.. but because of our laziness as a people.. The problem now is there is no way votes will correct our government's dirrection.. but a third world war will. This thing is going to go nuclear and when it does those of us who survive will have a chance to reform into a nation with a small government. A nation where the key ideals that define a liberal and a so-called conservative are embraced.
Posted by HILANDER on :
Geesh, getting kind of nasty, ain't it? Me personally, I don't like ths division that is forming....US+Israel VS Russia+Iran. This thing has the potential of going global if folks aren't really really careful. I think it is obvious Bush and Putin hate each other.
Posted by Leo on :
Relentless fighting on two fronts...I like it.
Posted by glassman on :
i'm not sure Putin is really gonna back Iran guys...
Putin has terrorism problems too...
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Gordo, the only thing you promote is an anti US, anti Israel mantra.. You are the enemy.. Please tell us again how this war is all Israel's fault.. Tell us again how the US is the greatest terrorist in the world..
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Commie, it is you who seeks this war.. It is you who has helped to cripple this nation's will to do what is right in preventing this war.. While we should have stood firm against monsters like you, this nation has given in to your notion that we should just be nice. You are to blame.. It is you and others dumb enough to be like you who have ushered in this world war...
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
But we want the same thing, remember?
quote:Originally posted by Relentless. (in a PM to Gordon Bennett): You as a commie and me as a facist pig want pretty much the same thing.. A new government..... This thing is going to go nuclear and when it does those of us who survive will have a chance to reform into a nation with a small government. A nation where the key ideals that define a liberal and a so-called conservative are embraced.
quote:Originally posted by Relentless Despot.: Gordo, the only thing you promote is an anti US, anti Israel mantra.. You are the enemy.. Please tell us again how this war is all Israel's fault.. Tell us again how the US is the greatest terrorist in the world..
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
It is idiots like you who have encourage the moral decay that has made this war possible..
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
You are a joke. You have already stated you are "gleeful" about the prospect of WWIII. Don't try to shift gears now, it just makes you look even more stupid.
quote:Originally posted by Relentless Despot.: Commie, it is you who seeks this war.
quote:Originally posted by Relentless. (in a PM to Gordon Bennett): You said yesterday I seemed almost gleefull about the coming world war.. I am actually.. but not because I want death for millions, and not because I'm a war monger.. But because of what will result from this war. You as a commie and me as a facist pig want pretty much the same thing.. A new government. Ours has become way too strong... Not because of bush or any of the others.. but because of our laziness as a people.. The problem now is there is no way votes will correct our government's dirrection.. but a third world war will. This thing is going to go nuclear and when it does those of us who survive will have a chance to reform into a nation with a small government. A nation where the key ideals that define a liberal and a so-called conservative are embraced.
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
I am actually.. but not because I want death for millions, and not because I'm a war monger.. But because of what will result from this war. Because of what it will bring.. Surely even gimpy three fingered commies like you are taught to read...? Apparently not.
Posted by Sasquatch on :
Saw the post. Know why you are doing it but agree that posting a PM without permission is bad form.
I get it. You think it is extremist.
Alright....So?
The current government HAS shaken itself loose from most checks and balances and is now running amok and only paying lip service to the problems it was created to solve. What's wrong with changing that no matter the form?
If that is one result from defending a democratic ally (no matter their faith) from a true and real threat from REAL terrorist organizations and REAL governments that are providing them succor...I'm fine with that.
Didn't (don't) like the Iraq war personally. Think it was a waste of lives/money/time/and political clout. Sure it could be a staging area for future conflicts but personally I think any offensive movement from that area will out of neccessity have to watch their rear as much as what is ahead because they won't be able to trust what's behind them. Woulda much rather seen a concerted effort in Afganistan as I think we would've been able to secure it much more easily/ targeted more dangerous foes/ and not seen the inflamation of a regional grassroots resistance movement.
Woulda Shoulda. That's done now. Time to move forward with what is on the table now.
I don't see a way for this conflict to cool down personally from our side of things. Terrorist organization (that the WORLD recognizes as terrorist organizations) have done things that must be answered for. If this conflict is to stop escalating their must be movement from those organizations or the governments that support them. We can do nothing to calm this conflict without betraying an ally that has been a supporter of us through tough times in a tough part of the world facing a difficult task that benefits us as much as them.
Do you see another way?
I don't want this to go nuclear either...but again...that is not our call. As long as we aren't the first to launch such a strike(which we won't be) I will keep an open mind as to if such a strike is neccessary depending on how the situation stands when that happens. Too early to speculate on that IMO.
Sas
Posted by glassman on :
actually? anybody who's ever had the *privilege* to live in MS for a couple years is hoping for BIG change ... VERY BIG CHANGE...
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
But you're willing to disregard the death of millions to get your idealistic fascist reward.
Go fight it yourself, you coward.
quote:Originally posted by Relentless Despot.: I am [gleeful about the war] actually.. but not because I want death for millions, and not because I'm a war monger.. But because of what will result from this war. Because of what it will bring.. Surely even gimpy three fingered commies like you are taught to read...? Apparently not.
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Gordo I did firght for it.. as have every male member of my family.. We have a long standing tradition of heading up the fight.. We also have a long tradition of not calling warriors cowards from behind a desk. We don't diguise ourselves as our enemy..
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
If you send something to me, and I waste my time reading it, I figure it's my property. Therefore, if you don't want me to share it with the main board, don't send it.
This goes double if you are a coward war-monger like Relentless. LOL
quote:Originally posted by Sasquatch: Saw the post. Know why you are doing it but agree that posting a PM without permission is bad form.
Posted by glassman on :
gordo? posting pms is wrong....
i'm supporting Israel here...
the terroists need to be exterminated...
not MUSLIMS.... terrorists..
and IRAN says: exterminate Istrael..so> they gotta go...period...
it's not NEGOTIABLE...Iran has a terrorist government and they say that in so many words...
go read their PR's they are saying it with their own words..the neo-cons aren't the ones saying they are terorists, Iran is...
at this late date? they know what they are asking for...
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Apparently I'm your enemy. I'm a progressive (as opposed to liberal) Jew.
quote:Originally posted by Relentless Despot.: We don't diguise ourselves as our enemy..
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
I don't give a **** if you post it or not.. I stand by those words like you will never stand by yours.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
And what about the millions of innocents who will perish along with the "terrorists" in nuclear horror?
quote:Originally posted by glassman: gordo? posting pms is wrong....
i'm supporting Israel here...
the terroists need to be exterminated...
Posted by Sasquatch on :
Beer time? I know the heat from this thread has dehydrated me.
Posted by Leo on :
good call Sasq.
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
What about the millions who will die if we do nothing? You care nothing for the people who are dying now because those people are your enemies.. You detest anyone who is not islamic
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
That you're gleeful about war? Good for you! (Even though you have never served.)
quote:Originally posted by Relentless Despot.: I don't give a **** if you post it or not.. I stand by those words like you will never stand by yours.
quote:Originally posted by Relentless. (in a PM to Gordon Bennett): You said yesterday I seemed almost gleefull about the coming world war.. I am actually.. but not because I want death for millions, and not because I'm a war monger.. But because of what will result from this war. You as a commie and me as a facist pig want pretty much the same thing.. A new government. Ours has become way too strong... Not because of bush or any of the others.. but because of our laziness as a people.. The problem now is there is no way votes will correct our government's dirrection.. but a third world war will. This thing is going to go nuclear and when it does those of us who survive will have a chance to reform into a nation with a small government. A nation where the key ideals that define a liberal and a so-called conservative are embraced.
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Go ahead and admit it, commie.. admit that the only reason you want this war to be prolonged in it's initial stages is because you want as many of us zionists gone as possible.. admit it.. stand up for yourself.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
You never served. How could you know?
quote:Originally posted by Relentless Despot.: What about the millions who will die if we do nothing? You care nothing for the people who are dying now because those people are your enemies.. You detest anyone who is not islamic
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
I have a couple friends here today and you're totally making our afternoon. We haven't laughed so hard in weeks.
Thanks for that, coward!
quote:Originally posted by Relentless Despot.: Go ahead and admit it, commie.. admit that the only reason you want this war to be prolonged in it's initial stages is because you want as many of us zionists gone as possible.. admit it.. stand up for yourself.
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
You have no point you are going to make, commie.. you are afraid to let anyone know how you really feel... You only tactic is to continue posting a pm over and over and trying desperately to take it out of context.. You are worthless.. an absolute waste of carbon. Shouldn't you be turned west and kneeling about now ali baba?
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
... Of course, a person gleeful about war is rarely very bright. LOL
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
how?.. beats the **** out of me.. must be due to your pathetically limited ancestory.. Can't be alot of braches on that tree.
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
You presented one bit of my argument.. so by your own definition it was entirely possible for you to take it out of context.. What's wrong?.. Your idolic government didn't teach you how to read? I stand by my words.. ALL OF THEM
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Are you so stupid as to believe I have only made one post on that subject? Moron who made this friggen thread...
Posted by Sasquatch on :
Good Lord!
Relentless...he's not an islamic commie. I know that and so do you.
Gordo, stop being an antagonistic jerk.
You are both doing yourselves a diservice by degrading into personal insults that have nothing to do with your positions in this debate.
I'm taking a shower cause it's hella humid up here right now and all this personal BS is annoying me. Then I'm going to take the wife out to run some errands. (Knock over a few trees, scare the locals...normal day to day stuff)
Do me a favor and bring this thread back to being something worth reading PLEASE!
Sasquatch
Posted by Dustoff 1 on :
well well well, Putin threw his curve ball.
told ya...
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Do elaborate?
quote:Originally posted by Dustoff 1: well well well, Putin threw his curve ball.
told ya...
Posted by Dustoff 1 on :
Syria planning anti-American demonstration for Monday..
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
I agree, but... He started it! LOL
quote:Originally posted by Sasquatch: Gordo, stop being an antagonistic jerk.
Sasquatch
Posted by Dustoff 1 on :
He is giving a veiled support to Hamas..Also now saying he is reserving judgement...
Bush was bushwhacked by the master... Bush is way out of his league as Commander in chief of U.S. Armed Forces and Putin knows it..
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
yup
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
After watching the continuing news on this conflict and the sympathy that is being shown towards the people caught in this war and the importance of getting americans out of these areas. I see that we seem to be hitting home with many americans on how hard it is to be caught in war and we need to keep remembering this when thinking about our troops that are caught in this situation every day in combat, we have started to forget this is a daily routine for many of our soldiers in Iraq.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
He's way out his league to manage a Dairy Queen.
We're going to need some serious help if we're starting WWIII with this bufoon at the helm.
quote:Originally posted by Dustoff 1: Bush was bushwhacked by the master... Bush is way out of his league as Commander in chief of U.S. Armed Forces and Putin knows it..
Posted by HILANDER on :
quote:Originally posted by Dustoff 1: well well well, Putin threw his curve ball.
told ya...
What did he do Dusty? And by the way...the Salmon are in...coulda walked across the boats on the south end of Elliot Bay on Fri.
Posted by Dustoff 1 on :
Rockets hitting hard in Nazareth, Afula... These are long range rockets...
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: He's way out his league to manage a Dairy Queen.
We're going to need some serious help if we're starting WWIII with this bufoon at the helm.
quote:Originally posted by Dustoff 1: Bush was bushwhacked by the master... Bush is way out of his league as Commander in chief of U.S. Armed Forces and Putin knows it..
WE are not starting this war...
Posted by Dustoff 1 on :
Deepest Rocket strikes so far in Israel.
These are "not" your basic garden varity Kush--ka's.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
If WWII occurs, history will undoubtedly reveal that the unprovoked US attack on Iraq, and the resulting worldwide anger, was its catalyst.
quote:Originally posted by Relentless Despot.: WE are not starting this war...
Posted by glassman on :
gordo? this is why the dems are DEAD...
thats BULLLL too..and you guys know it..
the terrorists must be exterminated...
how many time have i patiently sat here trying to get the truth out?
been callled a liberal? i'm not.and you know it...
i've defended the liberals where they DESERVE it... there's ne defense for invading Israel and kidnapping soldiers ..
Posted by Dustoff 1 on :
Bye Bye Gaza and Golan Heigths, gee ya think maybe Israel just might go------------> occupation.
Posted by glassman on :
i think Israel will pass on the occupation... that's what screwed US in Iraq... let the UN have it when they are done...
gordon? despot?? the UN could have been brought to Iraq after we took it... WE didn't want them? greeeed... that's why we have problems now..
d'ohhh.. we didn't go in there for oil: did we????
Posted by Dustoff 1 on :
glass, our old buddy Putin is doing his stuff..
Wanna bet ole KGB fox Putin is going to become very press oriented..And then? Well, he ain't going waltz'n thru the Tullips with China.
Posted by glassman on :
is this what you are talking about? Putin backs India’s membership of G-8 Dadan Upadhyay Posted online: Monday, July 17, 2006 at 0000 hrs Print Email
St Petersburg, July 16:President Vladimir Putin on Sunday gave Russia’s unstinted support to India joining the G-8 elite club of most industrialised nations, provided other members raised the issue ‘‘in practical terms’’.
we back the Paki terrorist nation tho... India hates Paki...
Putin seems to be threatening to start a new "G8" with a bunch of new countires huh?
yep Bush has hurt US bad..... real BAD... and the sooner everybody realises how bad? the sooner we can get on to fixing it....
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Glass, we didn't want the UN in Iraq because of the deep corruption in the UN. The UN has proven time and again that they are very much not on our side.. I agree that turning Iraq over to the UN after we were done would have solved quite a few issues.. They just couldn't be trusted, was the problem.
Posted by glassman on :
Glass, we didn't want the UN in Iraq because of the deep corruption in the UN.
the UN ain't a church for crying out loud...
good thing Dealay and Lay aren't running it...
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
LOL.. ok ok.. good point, but at the time the UN was in bed with Saddam...
Posted by glassman on :
they were stealing money BFD...
did you see the Senate Intel report where the CIA said that France has control over the African Uranium market?
we trust them to handle that? YES!!! and they knew sadam wasn't getting nukes..
something else happened here... the oil co's are the ones that put the brakes on the neo-cons..
Saudia Arabia may have said to them that they didn't apreciate the "spreading of freedom" tooo close to Mecca.. idunno..
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
I don't know... I'm sure the actual inner workings of this are closely tied to oil and saving face for quite a few politicians.. and not just our politicians.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
First of all, I'm not a "dem."
Wiping out all terrorists is an ideal, much like the war on drugs, that simply can not be accomplished, short of ending human life on earth.
I simply advocate that we, as humans, don't exterminate ourselves before this simple truth is realized.
Education and tolerance are the only long-term solutions.
An-eye-for-an-eye is a hopeless strategy. (Unless of course you make and sell the weapons. Then it's simply damn good business, until you become the target.)
quote:Originally posted by glassman: gordo? this is why the dems are DEAD...
thats BULLLL too..and you guys know it..
the terrorists must be exterminated...
how many time have i patiently sat here trying to get the truth out?
been callled a liberal? i'm not.and you know it...
i've defended the liberals where they DESERVE it... there's ne defense for invading Israel and kidnapping soldiers ..
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
How much firepower has Hezbollah accumulated while Bush was wasting time, lives and a sizeable fortune in Iraq (with its 0 WMDs)?
Sadly, we'll soon find out.
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Yes gordo.. we know.. we are not allowed to kill our enemies.. You make no case that even begins to claim that the terrorists are bad guys.. You always side with them.. you never side with the free peoples of this world. Go educate them.. go show them the love and compassion you know will solve this problem.. and we will all laugh at their response to you.
Posted by glassman on :
and not just our politicians. i agree absolutely....
OK GB... you aren't a dem...(i'll make note of that)
i don't think we are on the way to a real WW here...
i think Israel needs our political support here and now...
i think we need to shut down a few of Irans military programs right now too..
i think a lot of people (worldwide) are (rightfully) skeptical about Bush's adminisration..
BUT? you can simply listen to Iran to get their drift... screw them... they think we are weaker cuz we allow freespeech and discourse..time to teach them differently...
IMO? it is time to show the Islamofascists we can argue amongst ourselves and still kick their azz while we disagree within our own borders..... we can...
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Terrorists are "bad guys." We are "bad guys." Even the word "terrorist" is open to debate, depending on where you are in the world. For example, many consider the US Government to be the most powerful terrorist organization on Earth.
My point: this is not a black and white world.
Go eliminate terror, Despot; see how far you get.
quote:Originally posted by Relentless Despot.: Yes gordo.. we know.. we are not allowed to kill our enemies.. You make no case that even begins to claim that the terrorists are bad guys.. You always side with them.. you never side with the free peoples of this world. Go educate them.. go show them the love and compassion you know will solve this problem.. and we will all laugh at their response to you.
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Yes gordo, I know.. there are no true definitions of anything.. it's all perspective.. You have to be 12 years old.. Grow up twenty years then we'll talk.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
An interesting article.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Agreed. I'm also 40 years old, Jewish and college educated (engineering).
It's all in the perception, you see. And your perceptions about me have been proven to be completely wrong.
Therefore, your gleeful hope of war and 100% certainty that you side with the righteous, or even possess the full comprehension of the situation that it takes to choose a side, is laughable.
quote:Originally posted by Relentless Despot.: Yes gordo, I know.. there are no true definitions of anything.. it's all perspective.. You have to be 12 years old.. Grow up twenty years then we'll talk.
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
You have yet to prove anything you intended gordo.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
You don't even understand my intent.
Winning an argument here takes more than ignoring your (formidable) opponent's points.
After all, this isn't the O'reilly Factor.
However, you are more amusing than you can possibly comprehend. It's all been worth my time for that reason alone.
Laughter, after all, is good medicine in a tumultuous world.
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
I agree I use humor in most every post.. The fact remains that we do not live in the world you see... These terrorists cannot be reasoned with... It has been that notion that has led us to this point. When you grow up, you might understand the points I make.. Until then I imagine you will find cause to feel superior when you should feel humiliated.
Posted by Sunnyside on :
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: Agreed. I'm also 40 years old, Jewish and college educated (engineering).
It's all in the perception, you see. And your perceptions about me have been proven to be completely wrong.
Therefore, your gleeful hope of war and 100% certainty that you side with the righteous, or even possess the full comprehension of the situation that it takes to choose a side, is laughable.
quote:Originally posted by Relentless Despot.: Yes gordo, I know.. there are no true definitions of anything.. it's all perspective.. You have to be 12 years old.. Grow up twenty years then we'll talk.
Its only American Jews (if that is what you truly are) that think they have the luxury of showing disdain for Israel. Do you think the Moslems will spare your life because you preach tolerance and education. How naive. I certainly do not want war, but its far more than mere perspective. Men wrapped in dynamite and blowing themselves and innocents up isn't a matter of perception. Its outright terrorism. And I don't care where you are standing.
Israeli occupation? Did you ever hear of the 6-day war. Would that not be how Israel came to occupy land? Attacked on all borders by their enemies and still prevailed. But they are called the occupiers? And are forced to concede land for peace, for which there is none anyway? Daily bombings in Israel by terrorists killing innocent civilians, or are Palestinians the only innocents. Silly American Liberal. Jewish? I'm ashamed then.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Dear Relentless D***t,
Thank you for writing to the White House. As President, I value the opinions of minions like you. Therefore, I'm going to let you be the decider for a day:
Who should we nuke first?
How about the Religious Terrorists? There's lots of those! Let's see… we could start with The Hindus, then move on to Christians, Jews, Muslims, Islamist Fronts, the Sikh and so on.
Or would you prefer we start with Nationalistic Terrorist Organizations like the Irish Nationalists of Northern Ireland, Kashmir, Northern Irish Loyalists, Palestine, Pre-Independence Irish Nationalists and Sri Lanka?
Perhaps the Anarchists are the biggest threat to the Reich- oops, I mean our freedom and democracy. You know, like Communists, Socialists, Maoists and Marxists, Ethnic terrorists (including neo-Nazis and white-supremacists), Anti-Communists or even Ecologists?
Incidently, all of the above, and many, many more, are currently on our terrorist watch list.
Please get back to me and I'll prepare the warheads.
Sincerely,
-Dick Cheney (Acting President while Mr. Bush graces the G8 with his brilliance)
quote:Originally posted by Relentless Despot.: I agree I use humor in most every post.. The fact remains that we do not live in the world you see... These terrorists cannot be reasoned with... It has been that notion that has led us to this point. When you grow up, you might understand the points I make.. Until then I imagine you will find cause to feel superior when you should feel humiliated.
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
Gordo, you are ablinded mental midget who can't see any further than your absolute hatred of G W Bush... Your only reason for posting here is to present that hatred as alluring.. Well it isn't. There is more to this world than just that one man.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
You should be ashamed if you advocate killing innocent people for the sake of an ideology. (Sounds familiar doesn't it?)
quote:Originally posted by Sunnyside: Jewish? I'm ashamed then.
Posted by glassman on :
(Acting President while Mr. Bush graces the G8 with his brilliance) heeheee... you think he isn't "acting prez" all the time?
the G8 has just issued a set of demands... i can hear Cheney grumbling now... dangit dubya, you had no right to go behind my back and negotiate this...
Posted by Sasquatch on :
Personally I have a feeling that Lebanon and Palestine will only exist in memory and retoric once this is all said and done.
Has anyone heard anything out of Egypt or Jordan since this has all begun? I find it interesting that they have stayed silent.
If they stay out of this I think we may be able to avoid a nuclear war unless Iran gets stupid. If Lebanon, Palestine, Syria, Iran, Jordan, and Egypt were to all push in on Israel at once though you could very well see Israel's nukes scorch the sky.
How do you suggest we move forward from here Gordon if you don't like the idea of war? How should Israel be responding to these rocket attacks and kidnappings and calls for their destruction?
Sasquatch
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
I don't hate him, but I am embarrassed and appalled by him. I reserve my hatred for those that are truly evil and know it; like Rumsfeld.
Seriously though, why has a simple anti-war stance become so unpopular in America? Have we really become so deluded as to think World War will solve the terrorism situation? If it weren't so frightening, it would be laughable.
quote:Originally posted by Relentless Despot.: Gordo, you are ablinded mental midget who can't see any further than your absolute hatred of G W Bush... Your only reason for posting here is to present that hatred as alluring.. Well it isn't. There is more to this world than just that one man.
Posted by Sasquatch on :
Every organized group has a reason why they were organized in the first place. It isn't that they exist...It is the actions they take while they exist that make them terrorists.
Does that make America A terrorist organization? You could make that case...but it would only be true against despots and violent extremists.
I don't like Bushy and I don't like his war...but even I know there is a very large difference between the actions we took in Iraq and the action that Hezbolah and Hamas are taking against Israel.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Historically, it would have been nice if we hadn't paid for and supplied the Middle East with many of the weapons and technology they are using against each other today. That would have been a great start, don't you think?
Also, it wouldn't hurt the world's view of us if we ceased our government's arrogance in acting as the World's Police Force; choosing sides in conflicts that do not concern nor affect our security.
True humanitarian aid and real refugee support are the extent of what we should provide.
"I don't think our troops ought to be used for what's called nation building" -George W. Bush, 2000
What a painful joke.
quote:Originally posted by Sasquatch: How do you suggest we move forward from here Gordon if you don't like the idea of war? How should Israel be responding to these rocket attacks and kidnappings and calls for their destruction?
Sasquatch
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
He asked where we go from here.. not what should we not have done thirty years ago.. What do we do right now to prevent this coming war..
Posted by glassman on :
Iran wants Israel dead...they stated as much in a speech... there's no guesswork here... Iran is trying to get world opinion on their side, IRAN is building a nuclear weapon program.. Iran is backing hamas and hezbolah
yes, Bush has embarassed US IMO too... but?
i am getting sick and tired of hearing how Israel has gone too far... Iran has gone too far...
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Actions have their catalysts.
At least Hezbollah, while I don't condone their actions in any way, are up-front about their twisted intent.
The American Government, on the other hand, were absolutely deceitful; the real reasons for our war of conquest were not disclosed. And thus we are even more hated and terrorism has increased accordingly.
To paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld...
Stupid? yes.
Productive? For Halliburton, absolutely.
quote:Originally posted by Sasquatch: even I know there is a very large difference between the actions we took in Iraq and the action that Hezbolah and Hamas are taking against Israel.
Posted by Sasquatch on :
Weapons...valid point. However it is retrospect in relation to the current problem and thereby moot.
World's Police force. Agreed. But this conflict is not asking America to police anything. If America were to get involved it would be as a military action...not a police action. That is what we are doing in Iraq.
Also, as to a conflict that doesn't involve us...do you not think we have a responsibility to support our allies? Wouldn't it hurt our credibility more to back off of our position and leave our friends hanging in the wind?
True humanitarian aid. Also a valid point. And one we should work to get better on. The USA government has a very poor record of charity and aid despite our very vocal very press worthy pedges of aid. There is the little problem of other countries using aid for fundraising purposes such as North Korea selling the UN food aid rather than distributing it to the poor or the corruption uncovered in the oil for food program. that shouldn't stop us from giving however. You are correct.
Sasquatch
Posted by glassman on :
you came here after the 04 election huh GB?
i took alot of heat for trying to show people how bad things were...
Iran has been slowly taking advantage of the delay caused by the Iraq war...
the democrat position to leave Iraq? it has more to do with telling the world we aren't colonialising the mideast doesn't it?
the politicains have twisted this stuff around but the fact is we do have an enemy that is dangerous here... and i don't mean N Korea...
Posted by Sasquatch on :
So where do we go from here Gordon with the past acknowledged?
Posted by Sunnyside on :
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: You should be ashamed if you advocate killing innocent people for the sake of an ideology. (Sounds familiar doesn't it?)
quote:Originally posted by Sunnyside: Jewish? I'm ashamed then.
Of course you understood that my shame was directed at you. I never stated I advocated killing anyone. Interesting though is that you attempt to condemn me for "killing people for the sake of an ideology" when that is exactly what the fanatical extremist Muslims are doing and you seem to have a deep sympathy for and understanding of them.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Yeah, and so the cycle continues. How will our Government's actions now affect those in thirty years time? Etc... Etc... Etc... It has to stop.
My ideal America would provide basic humanitarian aid to all in need and would offer true refugee support from tyrannical regimes worldwide.
We would urge restraint and diplomacy for all without choosing sides (like the "Axis of evil" mentality that helps to fuel all this).
We would end all preventive strikes.
Further, as a world power, we would set a good example by actually engaging in diplomacy ourselves.
More importantly, we would stop doing business with terrorists for energy, as is our policy now. Until we do, we will (correctly) be viewed as hypocrites.
And until we do, we should simply stay the f**k out of the Middle East militarily. Our motives will never be viewed as righteous while there is still oil under that sand.
Posted by glassman on :
maybe you would like Iran to run the world Oil Exchange?
that's what this is really about...
Iran doesn't like the fact that the world trades oil in US Dollars...
that's also what got Carter's doodads in a vice... interest rates got how high???
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Glassman,
A better solution would be to seek alternative energy sources and to stop permitting oilmen to dictate US policy.
Posted by glassman on :
gee, i been yelling about that since the 04....
you are correct..
but today we still have another problem...
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
I hear you and agree. And, today, part of me thinks we're simply (and utterly) f***d.
Posted by glassman on :
well? diplomacy has not been very well handled and i don't see Bush doing any better at the G8 this weekend either... Iran has been scoffing at US for years...
Posted by Sasquatch on :
OK...so I've gleaned that you don't like the past stances that America has taken in regards to the middle east.
You don't think we should be selling them weapons. Does that extend to Israel? How bout India?
I'd agree in general in regards to Syria/Iran, and other areas where we disagree with the governance of the area but would like you to clarify your point.
You want humanitarian aid for all refugees. A noble aim. Are you ok with the idea of sending soldiers in to defend these area's? Take Darfur for example...is there any safe zone that could be set up without soldiers to defend the area? How many and what is ok, what is overstepping the boundaries? If they know a military unit that has been slaughtering villagers is headed in their direction can they engage them prior to the refugee camp or must they wait until the enemy unit fires first in case the refugee camp isn't their target but the town twenty miles away is?
End all preventative strikes. Any and all? What if you have rock solid intelligence that an assault on the California coastline is eminent?
Diplomacy. I'd agree to that. What type of diplomacy do you suggest we use in disarming the current situation between Israel and Palestine/Hezbollah? Should we offer incentives? Should we condemn Israel's offensive?
Stop doing business with terrorists for energy. To do that we would need to ban all trade with Iran and other similar countries. Is that what you are suggesting? This would be the only way to control governmentally the trade of American energy companies.
No action in the middle east. Alright...does that extend to our defense of Kuwait in the first Gulf War when Iraq invaded? Do you mean you do not want any American military in Israel to defend an ally's boarders from encroachment?
Sas
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
What can one expect?
Hell, I've been scoffing at Bush for years.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: well? diplomacy has not been very well handled and i don't see Bush doing any better at the G8 this weekend either... Iran has been scoffing at US for years...
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Ah. So you want specifics. Fair enough.
quote:Originally posted by Sasquatch: OK...so I've gleaned that you don't like the past stances that America has taken in regards to the middle east.
I despise them. That picture of Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam will forever label Rummy a hypocrite.
quote:Originally posted by Sasquatch: You don't think we should be selling them weapons. Does that extend to Israel? How bout India?
Yes.
quote:Originally posted by Sasquatch: I'd agree in general in regards to Syria/Iran, and other areas where we disagree with the governance of the area but would like you to clarify your point.
The region is called "unstable" for a good reason.
Governance changes; what we agree with today, we may be opposed to tomorrow. The stockpiles of weapons we sold to the prior government are then in the hands of our enemies. (There is a precedent for this theory, as you are aware.)
quote:Originally posted by Sasquatch: You want humanitarian aid for all refugees. A noble aim. Are you ok with the idea of sending soldiers in to defend these area's? Take Darfur for example...is there any safe zone that could be set up without soldiers to defend the area? How many and what is ok, what is overstepping the boundaries? If they know a military unit that has been slaughtering villagers is headed in their direction can they engage them prior to the refugee camp or must they wait until the enemy unit fires first in case the refugee camp isn't their target but the town twenty miles away is?
I just hope the "military unit that has been slaughtering villagers" isn't one of ours. If we have the support of a majority of the world to go in and provide help (as in WWII), it's a good idea to defend (and preferably rescue) those in danger. We need to think globally in this nuclear age and engage the world in the discussion of problems that influence our humanity. We are all human beings; nothing more.
quote:Originally posted by Sasquatch: End all preventative strikes. Any and all? What if you have rock solid intelligence that an assault on the California coastline is eminent?
You mean a "slam-dunk" case? LOL
I doubt such clear, honest intelligence is even possible today.
quote:Originally posted by Sasquatch: Diplomacy. I'd agree to that. What type of diplomacy do you suggest we use in disarming the current situation between Israel and Palestine/Hezbollah? Should we offer incentives? Should we condemn Israel's offensive?
The US doesn't need to engage in diplomacy as it is not our country's battle. It is up to the two who are in conflict to resolve it. We should neither condone nor condemn, nor should we offer incentives or choose sides. We should merely urge diplomacy and provide humanitarian aid where we can. There is not a clear-cut case of good vs. evil here. (There rarely is.) It's been an-eye-for-an-eye for too long for either side to be conceived as completely innocent. Both have blood on their hands.
Further, while we have corporate oil deals with the Middle East, US opinion on these matters will be viewed as little more than a bad joke on the world stage anyway.
quote:Originally posted by Sasquatch: Stop doing business with terrorists for energy. To do that we would need to ban all trade with Iran and other similar countries. Is that what you are suggesting? This would be the only way to control governmentally the trade of American energy companies.
We should ban all trade with terrorist governments or cease the hypocritical "war on terror." Can we have it both ways? I think not.
quote:Originally posted by Sasquatch: No action in the middle east. Alright...does that extend to our defense of Kuwait in the first Gulf War when Iraq invaded? Do you mean you do not want any American military in Israel to defend an ally's boarders from encroachment?
While our own borders can not be secured? How dare we! No.
The past is gone, as you have all pointed out to me. As for today, I think we have enough troubles at home.
quote:Originally posted by Sasquatch: Sas
-Gordon B.
Posted by Sasquatch on :
Good job Gordo! You gave me specifics to what I was asking.
Couple more questions and a personal statement.
First...are there any countries that you would agree to America selling arms to? How about outdated military equipment that America does not use anymore and doesn't consider a threat? Could we sell these items to make back a little of the astronomical amount we spend on our "defense" budget?
On preventative strikes...What if there WAS a slam dunk case? Would you not find the government at fault for not taking action after the fact if such an event were to take place?
Does your diplomacy stance change should Iran/Syria/Lebanon/Palestine/Egypt/and Jordan all attack Israel and it looks as if the country is going to fall? At what point would it be OK in your eyes to go in and support our ally from those who have stated harmful intents toward America?
It seems to me instead of an eye for an eye you are touting live and let die. I have a problem with that policy too. It's turning a blind eye to the problems of the world.
I agree with you in one regard. Our own borders. we need to do a lot more on securing them.
As to your oil policy...have you really considered the consequences of either of those actions? Isn't ignoring terrorist groups exactly how they came to have so much influence in the first place? If we were to ban trade for oil in middle eastern countries what would that mean at home? $8 for a gallon of gas? Any chance of protecting the Alaskan Wildlife refuge after that? Or Yellowstone park? How would our relationships with other countries that we purchase oil from change? Would they do to us what Russia did to the Ukraine and hold us hostage by withholding supplies until we swallow inflated prices out of necessity?
Perhaps we would push our need for sustainable energy but if we had to pay double or triple for that which our infrastructure is currently set up for...how many other services would suffer? How will we create a national healthcare system? Where will we find the money to beef up boarder security? How will we fix social security? Where does the money come from? We already have a national debt that reaches decades into the future should we make paying it off a priority tomorrow...How long until America's economy collapses and thereby much of the worlds economy?
I understand the moralistic background from which your opinions are formed but I don't find them very pragmatic in the real world.
Sas
Posted by T e x on :
quote:Originally posted by Sunnyside:
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: Agreed. I'm also 40 years old, Jewish and college educated (engineering).
It's all in the perception, you see. And your perceptions about me have been proven to be completely wrong.
Therefore, your gleeful hope of war and 100% certainty that you side with the righteous, or even possess the full comprehension of the situation that it takes to choose a side, is laughable.
quote:Originally posted by Relentless Despot.: Yes gordo, I know.. there are no true definitions of anything.. it's all perspective.. You have to be 12 years old.. Grow up twenty years then we'll talk.
Its only American Jews (if that is what you truly are) that think they have the luxury of showing disdain for Israel. Do you think the Moslems will spare your life because you preach tolerance and education. How naive. I certainly do not want war, but its far more than mere perspective. Men wrapped in dynamite and blowing themselves and innocents up isn't a matter of perception. Its outright terrorism. And I don't care where you are standing.
Israeli occupation? Did you ever hear of the 6-day war. Would that not be how Israel came to occupy land? Attacked on all borders by their enemies and still prevailed. But they are called the occupiers? And are forced to concede land for peace, for which there is none anyway? Daily bombings in Israel by terrorists killing innocent civilians, or are Palestinians the only innocents. Silly American Liberal. Jewish? I'm ashamed then.
I find this a STRIKINGLY good post...
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Some random responses, as I don't have the time to do another line-by-line response.
First of all, we need a radical shift in our way of thinking. We need to reevaluate our sense of entitlement to all of the world's resources.
Preventive strikes are too easily manipulated for political gain to be considered viable. If the missile's on the way, by all means shoot it down.
We could sell those old latrine huts to someone, I suppose.
$8 a gallon for gas is nothing. Wait a year.
Even drilling Alaska (which I oppose) wouldn't provide us enough oil for long at our current consumption rate. We need to aggressively pursue alternative energy or drastically alter our current lifestyles immediately. Otherwise it's just going to be "relentless."
Best regards for your cordial posts! I wish that were the case with everyone here.
quote:Originally posted by Sasquatch:
Good job Gordo! You gave me specifics to what I was asking.
Posted by glassman on :
You don't think we should be selling them weapons. Does that extend to Israel? How bout India?
and Pakistan don't forget the Paki's
US defends Pakistan F-16 jet deal Saturday, 26 March, 2005, 15:35 GMT Condoleezza Rice Ms Rice says the US wants strong ties with both India and Pakistan The US has defended its decision to sell F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan, in the face of opposition from India.
US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice told the Washington Post newspaper the US was trying to build relations with Pakistan and India at the same time.
India - which may also buy F-16s in the future - has warned the US deal with Pakistan risks creating an arms race.
Pakistan's Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz has welcomed the move, seen as a reward for supporting the US war on terror.
It was an okay point. However, Israel has much blood on its hands as well.
It's not as cut-and-dried as some would like to believe.
quote:Originally posted by T e x: I find this a STRIKINGLY good post...
Posted by Sasquatch on :
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: $8 a gallon for gas is nothing. Wait a year.
Even drilling Alaska (which I oppose) wouldn't provide us enough oil for long at our current consumption rate. We need to aggressively pursue alternative energy or drastically alter our current lifestyles immediately. Otherwise it's just going to be "relentless."
My point here is how many things will we find sacrificed to support a habit that is no longer within our capability? Eventually we will shift to sustainable energy practices(hopefully sooner than later) but if we were to ban middleeastern oil now the public would cry out for respite so loudly that nothing would be sacred during the time that the new infrastructure was being created. The environment wouldn't be worth a damn compared to not being able to get to work or the cabin. Sad...but that's the nature of the human beast.
Sas
Posted by SuperSniper00 on :
do you guys actually think the masons and illuminati are going to allow the world to kill itself off?
You guys gotta be smarter than that.
We're just gonna see map makers busy for awhile rearranging a few areas.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Wow, that's a seriously intriguing statement. Care to elaborate?
quote:Originally posted by SuperSniper00: do you guys actually think the masons and illuminati are going to allow the world to kill itself off?
You guys gotta be smarter than that.
We're just gonna see map makers busy for awhile rearranging a few areas.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
We may just find that out the hard way.
quote:Originally posted by Sasquatch: My point here is how many things will we find sacrificed to support a habit that is no longer within our capability?
Posted by SuperSniper00 on :
quote:$8 a gallon for gas is nothing. Wait a year.
Even drilling Alaska (which I oppose) wouldn't provide us enough oil for long at our current consumption rate. We need to aggressively pursue alternative energy or drastically alter our current lifestyles immediately. Otherwise it's just going to be "relentless."
You dont get it do you? There is no shortage in oil. The reason gas is so expensive is because the oil companies in America wont build new refineries. We have plenty of oil floating around. They just arents turning it into gas fast enough to meet the demand. Which works out for exxon because then they create their own supply and demand. What we really need is government intervention to stop the gouging. But that wont happen as long as you idiots keep electing retards.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Even if that were true, we still need to switch to alternative energy. Stick it to the oil companies with innovation, I say.
(That used to be the American dream, before we exported it to China, LOL)
Posted by SuperSniper00 on :
thats never going to happen because too much money is involved in oil
same reason we havent stopped the drug trade
same reason we back israel
same reason russian/france and the rest of those turds back iran
MONEY!
Posted by MagicK on :
quote:The US doesn't need to engage in diplomacy as it is not our country's battle. It is up to the two who are in conflict to resolve it. We should neither condone nor condemn, nor should we offer incentives or choose sides. We should merely urge diplomacy and provide humanitarian aid where we can. There is not a clear-cut case of good vs. evil here. (There rarely is.) It's been an-eye-for-an-eye for too long for either side to be conceived as completely innocent. Both have blood on their hands.
I find it ironic that that same stance is what allowed Hitler to get as far as he did, which then resulted in Israel being born again in the first place, when we finally did do something. Hard to believe your a Jew advocating such a position. There is NO country that doesn't have blood on it's hands, that's no excuse. So far I haven't seen the US do anything but say Israel has the right to defend itself.
Posted by rimasco on :
quote:Originally posted by SuperSniper00: do you guys actually think the masons and illuminati are going to allow the world to kill itself off?
You guys gotta be smarter than that.
We're just gonna see map makers busy for awhile rearranging a few areas.
You failed to mention Bilderberg group
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
There's little hope for humanity if this line of foreign policy continues.
Posted by Sasquatch on :
Sure there is...
Just ship everyone who disagrees with me to live on the moon! Posted by MagicK on :
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: There's little hope for humanity if this line of foreign policy continues.
Didn't your ancestors give us the fate of humanity?
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
...and sell them arms, and call their enemies the "axis of evil," and invade Iraq, and....
Inciting the enemy to violence appears to be our main game. It's a money maker...
Hitler got as far as he did with a lot of help.
With apologies to Rumsfeld, once again...
Should we have intervened in WWII sooner? Absolutely.
Did the USA wait too long? For three million or so of us, yes.
Is it fair to draw comparisons between the helpless inmates of Hitler's concentration camps and the heavily-armed government of Israel? Absolutely not.
quote:Originally posted by MagicK: I find it ironic that that same stance is what allowed Hitler to get as far as he did, which then resulted in Israel being born again in the first place, when we finally did do something. Hard to believe your a Jew advocating such a position. There is NO country that doesn't have blood on it's hands, that's no excuse. So far I haven't seen the US do anything but say Israel has the right to defend itself.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
I'm only half Jewish so I'm all set there. Thanks for your concern. LOL
quote:Originally posted by MagicK: Didn't your ancestors give us the fate of humanity?
Posted by T e x on :
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: I'm only half Jewish so I'm all set there. Thanks for your concern. LOL
quote:Originally posted by MagicK: Didn't your ancestors give us the fate of humanity?
Groucho: "Hey, my daughter is only half-Jewish....if she comes back [to the pool], can she go in up to her waist?"
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
LOL
Posted by rimasco on :
quote:Originally posted by SuperSniper00: thats never going to happen because too much money is involved in oil
same reason we havent stopped the drug trade
same reason we back israel
same reason russian/france and the rest of those turds back iran
MONEY!
I agree with snipe..EXCEPT! It is too my understanding we have alot more untapped oil reserves here in the U.S. then people know about. In laymans terms...why use up our own when we can use up other countries. This is what i have been told
Posted by MagicK on :
Half eh? Paternal or maternal side? Maybe I should ask then, what religion are you?
Your a slippery one alright, on one hand you say we should mind our own business, on the other, we should have been involved in WW2 sooner.
So if several more countries get involved with the present war, do you think we should then step in? Should we wait until three million are wiped out this time? Keep in mind there's only 6 million of your half brethren present in Israel right now.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
The fact is, humans being what we are, we will eventually use it all up.
Question is, will we be prepared when it's gone, or at $1000 a barrel?
If so, we had better start some serious planning real soon.
Posted by rimasco on :
We have of alot alternative energies to turn to and i believe that we're gonna start to see alot more of them of them come into play.
Soon as the poloticians are done taking whats left of our asses in kickbacks
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
You're twisting my words. Our involvement in WWII was humanitarian in nature. I don't subscribe to an organized religion; I do have a personal faith. (Imagine how peaceful the world would be if more of us could say that.)
Does Lebanon host concentration camps exterminating Jews at the rate of 1,000 a day? How about Palestine? If so, please advise.
As a matter of fact, this picture from the Gaza strip looks closer to a concentration camp than I'm comfortable with.
quote:Originally posted by MagicK: Half eh? Paternal or maternal side? Maybe I should ask then, what religion are you?
Your a slippery one alright, on one hand you say we should mind our own business, on the other, we should have been involved in WW2 sooner.
So if several more countries get involved with the present war, do you think we should then step in? Should we wait until three million are wiped out this time? Keep in mind there's only 6 million of your half brethren present in Israel right now.
Posted by MagicK on :
quote:Is it fair to draw comparisons between the helpless inmates of Hitler's concentration camps and the heavily-armed government of Israel? Absolutely not.
No such comparison was made. Reread my post, I was noting the very attitude you pose we maintain, was the very same one which gave rise to Israel in the first place, and if it was adopted once again, would lead to her demise.
Posted by rimasco on :
Dont be fooled....with all the technology we have today do you think we really have to rely on the black goop in the ground. we have a remote control car on MARS. I mean comon its a joke. You dont think Big oil through poloticians is stifling our alternatives.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Your basic argument is flawed. Like it or not, Israel is heavily armed and can (and does) defend/attack as it wishes. The concentration camp occupants did not have this advantage and needed every bit of help that was provided.
Is it fair to draw comparisons between the helpless inmates of Hitler's concentration camps and the heavily-armed government of Israel? Absolutely not.
quote:Originally posted by MagicK:
quote:Is it fair to draw comparisons between the helpless inmates of Hitler's concentration camps and the heavily-armed government of Israel? Absolutely not.
No such comparison was made. Reread my post, I was noting the very attitude you pose we maintain, was the very same one which gave rise to Israel in the first place, and if it was adopted once again, would lead to her demise.
Posted by MagicK on :
quote:Your twisting my words.
Really?
quote:The US doesn't need to engage in diplomacy as it is not our country's battle. It is up to the two who are in conflict to resolve it. We should neither condone nor condemn, nor should we offer incentives or choose sides.
quote:Should we have intervened in WWII sooner? Absolutely.
quote:Did the USA wait too long? For three million or so of us, yes.
Ever think of running for some political position? You already have what it takes.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Yep. I can't help but think that all the technology for viable alternative energy already exists but is safely locked up in the ExxonMobilTexaco vaults.
quote:Originally posted by rimasco: Dont be fooled....with all the technology we have today do you think we really have to rely on the black goop in the ground. we have a remote control car on MARS. I mean comon its a joke. You dont think Big oil through poloticians is stifling our alternatives.
Posted by Sasquatch on :
So when is it ok to help Israel in your mind GB?
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
If you bothered to read my entire posts, you would find that I firmly support humanitarian aid. I believe WWII was largely humanitarian in nature.
I don't condone nation building or help with hostile takeovers of disputed non-US lands.
Nor do I condone occupying countries for their resources or other corporate industrial interests.
The distortion continues.
Peace, brother.
quote:Originally posted by MagicK:
quote:Your twisting my words.
Really?
quote:The US doesn't need to engage in diplomacy as it is not our country's battle. It is up to the two who are in conflict to resolve it. We should neither condone nor condemn, nor should we offer incentives or choose sides.
quote:Should we have intervened in WWII sooner? Absolutely.
quote:Did the USA wait too long? For three million or so of us, yes.
Ever think of running for some political position? You already have what it takes.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
When thay can't defend themselves from a tyrannical regime. So far, they seem to be quite happy and able to blow things up.
quote:Originally posted by Sasquatch: So when is it ok to help Israel in your mind GB?
Posted by rimasco on :
you guys are waisting your time trying to figure out a culture that is bent on destruction of all religions. Even different sectors of there own. Sunni, kurd- Shia, Shiite....They would be killing eachother if they didnt have Israel to focus their rage on... here this article says it best
October 28, 2005 -- THIS week the president of Iran told a student rally that Israel should be "wiped off the map." Always a crowd pleaser in Tehran, Mr. Ahmadinejad's call to exterminate Jews rang freshly ominous in view of his government's nuclear ambitions. Meeting with a lively group of American businessmen on Tuesday, I was asked how we'd know when Tehran was on the verge of acquiring a nuclear capability. "You'll see Israeli planes in the sky over Iran," I said with a smile masking my seriousness.
But it won't be as easy as Israel's 1981 destruction of Iraq's French-built Osirak reactor. This time, Israel will need more than attack aircraft (and better refueling means). It may take a combination of aircraft, missiles, special-ops teams and clandestine resources to interrupt Iran's nuclear program if the world fails to act. The effort would look more like the opening of the 1967 war than a pin-point strike.
But Iranian nuclear weapons constitute a literal life-or-death issue for Israel. Tel Aviv would be better off facing the world's (disingenuous) outrage than nuclear destruction.
Even for the military power of the United States, shattering Iran's nuclear-weapons program would be complicated. Iran's facilities are dispersed, hidden, buried and hardened. Attacks would kill foreign technicians wisely hired by Iran — de facto hostages.
Yet, for all of the concern that Israel, the United States and blithely irresponsible Europe should feel about Tehran's quest for nuclear weapons, the Sunni Muslims of the Middle East and Pakistan should be more worried still.
The likeliest future nuclear exchange in the Middle East may not be between Israel and Iran, after all, but between Shi'a and Sunni Muslims.
The Pakistani bomb is a Sunni bomb. Tehran is hell-bent on having a Shi'a bomb to counter it.
And we are not talking about emotionally stable adversaries. The psychological dislocations of the greater Middle East and the ferocity of religious differences make the region the likeliest in the world to see an internal nuclear exchange. Even India and Pakistan are far less apt to engage in nuclear war (unless a regime of religious madmen grasps power in Islamabad).
Fiery rhetoric notwithstanding, Tehran's nuclear target list doesn't necessarily start with Israel. Tel Aviv's capacity for devastating retaliation may — may — deter an Iranian government with any residual survival instincts. And while Israel is the great symbolic enemy, the first place on the practical side goes to Sunni Arabs.
With our abysmally short historical memories, we forget that the most savage conventional war of the past 60 years was the Iran-Iraq conflict, a decade of bloodletting between Iran's majority Shi'a population and (formerly) Sunni-dominated Iraq. It was a replay of Islam's 7th-century tribal clashes, with modern weapons and mass armies. Millions perished or suffered crippling wounds. And every available weapon, including poison gas, was used enthusiastically.
Humans may hate a distant enemy in theory, but we're likelier to kill our neighbors.
An Iranian nuclear threat to the United States comes in at a distant third place behind the danger to Israel and the possibility of an intra-Muslim conflict of apocalyptic proportions. (Does anybody really think that luxury condos in Dubai are a good investment? Well, here's a toast to their "glowing" future as the mullahs nuke the Middle East's Las Vegas wannabe.)
Of course, we cannot dismiss the nuclear danger to our deployed forces or from a Tehran-backed terrorist strike on our homeland. But we may be exaggerating our importance to our sworn enemies.
If all politics are local, so are most wars. The advent of nuclear weapons in the Middle East just may coincide with the due-date for a devastating Shi'a-Sunni confrontation. In one of reality's bizarre twists that intelligence agencies never forecast, we may see Sunni Arab states begging Israel for a wartime alliance.
With all of these rising dangers between the Red Sea and the Indus, the United States long remained willfully blind to the roots of nuclear development in the region. The Iranians worried us but we essentially gave our "allies" a pass.
The Pakistani bomb was funded by Saudi Arabia as a Sunni bomb. We had no end of evidence, but Clinton-era apparatchiks refused to face the embarrassing facts.
On the eve of Pakistan's first nuclear detonation, Islamabad's leading luxury hotel filled with Saudis. On the day of the blast, the phone lines (in those days before cells) lit up from the test site back to the hotel, then from the hotel to Riyadh. According to one well-placed American witness, the information was suppressed.
Now Sunni Muslims have their bomb, the Shi'a are determined to have theirs, and the truly horrific religious war in the coming years may not be between terrorists or murderous Islamist governments and the West, but between Muslims. The sectarian hatreds within Islam (as well as between the Persian and Arab civilizations) pre-date any resentments toward the United States by many centuries.
It should surprise no one that the great bloodlettings of the 21st century will be over religion. The shock may be over which masses of believers slaughter each other.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Perhaps our rage is an uneccesary addition to the equation.
quote:Originally posted by rimasco: you guys are waisting your time trying to figure out a culture that is bent on destruction of all religions. Even different sectors of there own. Sunni, kurd- Shia, Shiite....They would be killing eachother if they didnt have Israel to focus their rage on... here this article says it best
Posted by MagicK on :
It was largely humanitarian in nature because back then, we didn't get involved, the Holocaust was the result of our non-involvement.
AM I MY BROTHER'S KEEPER????
Why was this the first question posed by a human to God? To hide a murder.
You think we should have stepped in after the fourth country he conquered or the fifth?
I don't recall the US ever stepping in other than verbally to protect Israel, since her rebirth. It is and has aways been implied that we will. We have pushed her into peace treaty after peace treaty, asking her to give up more and more of her land in these talks, nothing ever satisfies. Not even the Gaza strip.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
What about the the weapons, vast sums of money, foreign policy and media support?
A good example of the latter is the crushed (no pun intended) investigation into the Gaza death of US Peace Activist Rachel Corrie at the hands of the Israeli military.
(There are hundreds more examples, but that one springs readily to mind.)
quote:Originally posted by MagicK: I don't recall the US ever stepping in other than verbally to protect Israel, since her rebirth.
Posted by MagicK on :
I meant with a military presence and you knew that.
Financially yes, we have, but you support humanitarian efforts remember?
Weapons? Yes we have, wanna name how many other countries have our weapons too?
Media support, I don't see it, just watch recent news commentary, they are not pro Israel.
Foreign policy, yes, of course...in the interest of peace.
Posted by SuperSniper00 on :
I think we all need to go read or re-read The Prince.
The only way to keep America the way it is and to keep peace and freedom for Americans is to elimate our enemies before they can eliminate us.
What the US really needs to do is withdraw itself from the sham of an organization the UN is and create its own coalition of countries. A coalition of countries that value freedom and wont back down and have weak stances.
We also need to say **** oil, because once we find something better than oil, we can tell the middle east to eff off. Their only source of revenue will go down the drain. Its hard to buy weapons and finance terrorism when your country doesnt produce anything.
Posted by rimasco on :
Ive been saying this for years (f*ck oil). Exxon and other conglomerates wont let it happen. Why are these companies pulling in record profits (Exxon Mobil posts record 4Q profit of $10.7 billion) - Earnings while the avg joe can barely afford to drive to work and feed his family? And that was net profits for ONE QUATER! Why was microsoft attacked the way it was but not Big oil? It appears to me that the gouging starts right at the the supplier and then everybody else along the line. The people of this country have gone soft, and we're all gettin shaken down because of it!
Posted by glassman on :
you guys are waisting your time trying to figure out a culture that is bent on destruction of all religions. Even different sectors of there own. Sunni, kurd- Shia, Shiite....They would be killing eachother if they didnt have Israel to focus their rage on... here this article says it best
this is what i've been trying to explain here for a couple years....
these people don't even care about money...
they are in love with fighting and dying....
if you let them? they will suck you into this too...
He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil, Aphorism 146 Posted by glassman on :
inserting a UN peacekeeping force in to Lebanon will be the solution here...
Israel is destroying Hezbolah right now and we need to support an international mission to keep them from coming back in when Israel is done.....
Posted by rimasco on :
I cant even count the number of articles I read about Hezbolah getting saved by the bell again and again. This is one of the reasons why Israel responded the way it did.....makes alot more sense now
Posted by rimasco on :
Its like a UFC fight.... do as much damage as possible before its stoped
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
LOL!
quote:Originally posted by MagicK: Media support, I don't see it, just watch recent news commentary, they are not pro Israel.
Posted by Dustoff 1 on :
googled this one
------------------------------------------------- New York nun hailed a cab, got in and told the driver to take her to West 79th Street. As they rode uptown, she noticed that the driver kept staring at her in his rearview mirror. Finally, she asked him why he was staring. "There's something I want to ask you," said the cabbie, "but I don't want to offend you." "My dear son," said the sister, "when you've been a nun for as long as I have, you've seen and heard just about everything. There's nothing you can say that will offend me." "Well," began the cabbie cautiously, "all my life I've had this fantasy about being kissed by a nun." "Maybe we can do something about that," the nun said, "provided you are single -- and Roman Catholic." "I'm single!" replied the driver excitedly. "And I'm Catholic too!" "Okay," said the nun. "Pull into the next alley." The cabbie wasted no time in finding an alley, stopping the car and jumping into the back seat, where the nun proceeded to fulfill his lifelong fantasy. After they got back into traffic, the driver began to cry. "My dear child," said the nun tenderly, "why are you crying?" "Forgive me, sister," he said. "I took advantage of your good nature when I told you I was single and Catholic. "I'm really married and Jewish." "That's all right," replied the nun. "My name is really Bruce, and I'm on my way to a Halloween party."
Posted by 66inxs on :
good joke dusty.
usa may have waited to enter wwII until the other major beat each other up so that they could come in later abd take over the world cuz everyone else was too weak, however, stalin was still too powerful and took over part of europe hence the cold war. btw the world's leaders don't seem to care how many sheep get killed as long as they achieve their objectives.
Posted by Sunnyside on :
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: I'm only half Jewish so I'm all set there. Thanks for your concern. LOL
quote:Originally posted by MagicK: Didn't your ancestors give us the fate of humanity?
Why the need to qualify yourself now? Only half? Do you think that'll save you? Ya know those friends that find this thread and those on it so amusing? Well they'll be the first ones to turn your 1/2 jewish self in.
Yes, Israel does have blood on its hands and that is because of the need to fight for their survival. Jews make up 1/4 of 1% of the entire world population. The world loves to hate the jews. Media coverage is always pro-Arab. Poor things.
Its like the old jewish joke responding to what the jewish holidays are about: they tried to kill us, we survived.
I only hope the time doesn't come when you have to kiss the earth in Israel for their fighting to exist to one day be able to save your 1/2 sorry jewish ass.
Posted by rimasco on :
Israel needs to put some boots on the ground in Leb. Sharon woulda had that whole place on lock-down by now
Posted by glassman on :
you know? i've read that a couple times now, and i'm still not sure if it's an anti-semitic statement or not Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
No, sunny is just a maroon.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: you know? i've read that a couple times now, and i'm still not sure if it's an anti-semitic statement or not
Posted by MagicK on :
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: LOL!
quote:Originally posted by MagicK: Media support, I don't see it, just watch recent news commentary, they are not pro Israel.
Well GB I guess you find that humorous.
Here's what I find humorous, I watch Fox News and other devoted news channels and find them borderline anti-semitic, you watch 'em and find them pro Israel, the funny part is your half Jewish, and I'm not Jewish at all.
Go figure.
All I ever hear every time Israel has ever reacted (and not just this time) is disproportionate force, disproportionate force, disproportionate force. Should America restrain Israel? Is Israel over-reacting? What they on a leash? Go get 'em I say, every last one.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Here's what I find humorous, you watch Fox News.
Posted by MagicK on :
You don't? Oh well tell us all where you get your pro Israeli news from then.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Why on earth would I watch FOX? I can always dig up some old Nazi propaganda films if I want to be lied to.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
I found this to be an interesting point.
"Israel has justified the carnage by pointing to the 2 soldiers who were captured by members of the Lebanese resistance organization, Hezbollah. But Israel’s defense is hopelessly flawed.
What if relatives or friends of the many US detainees who’ve been illegally imprisoned at Guantanamo, decided to use F-16s and laser-guided missiles to attack the Golden Gate Bridge, the Sears Tower, New York City’s electrical grid, and vast swathes of the highway system? Would that be equally justifiable? Or, more to the point, what if Hezbollah decided to blow up major parts of Israel’s infrastructure in retaliation for the hundreds of Lebanese prisoners languishing in Israeli prisons without any legal recourse? Would that be okay?" Posted by MagicK on :
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: Why on earth would I watch FOX? I can always dig up some old Nazi propaganda films if I want to be lied to.
So now your saying they ARE anti-semitic.
Weren't you the one who was LOL, when I said, "Media support, I don't see it, just watch recent news commentary, they are not pro Israel."
Somebody call an anti-spin Dr. I'm getting dizzy.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
No, I'm saying I don't watch FOX News. Are you drugged? Posted by Sunnyside on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: you know? i've read that a couple times now, and i'm still not sure if it's an anti-semitic statement or not
Confused Glass? Why? Not anti-semitic at all. Just anti-Gordon. A man who initially states he's jewish to prove a point and then needs to qualify his 1/2 jewishness. I'm 100% jewish and have no problem making that statement. Mind telling me what appears anti-semitic to you. The jewish joke? lol
Gordon, you calling me a moron doesn't even rank as an insult from a pseudo high brow liberal such as yourself.
Posted by MagicK on :
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: I found this to be an interesting point.
"Israel has justified the carnage by pointing to the 2 soldiers who were captured by members of the Lebanese resistance organization, Hezbollah. But Israel’s defense is hopelessly flawed.
What if relatives or friends of the many US detainees who’ve been illegally imprisoned at Guantanamo, decided to use F-16s and laser-guided missiles to attack the Golden Gate Bridge, the Sears Tower, New York City’s electrical grid, and vast swathes of the highway system? Would that be equally justifiable? Or, more to the point, what if Hezbollah decided to blow up major parts of Israel’s infrastructure in retaliation for the hundreds of Lebanese prisoners languishing in Israeli prisons without any legal recourse? Would that be okay?"
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: I found this to be an interesting point.
"Israel has justified the carnage by pointing to the 2 soldiers who were captured by members of the Lebanese resistance organization, Hezbollah. But Israel’s defense is hopelessly flawed.
What if relatives or friends of the many US detainees who’ve been illegally imprisoned at Guantanamo, decided to use F-16s and laser-guided missiles to attack the Golden Gate Bridge, the Sears Tower, New York City’s electrical grid, and vast swathes of the highway system? Would that be equally justifiable? Or, more to the point, what if Hezbollah decided to blow up major parts of Israel’s infrastructure in retaliation for the hundreds of Lebanese prisoners languishing in Israeli prisons without any legal recourse? Would that be okay?"
What happened to the eight soldiers killed and 70 rockets fired into a civilian town?
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Not justifiable either, MagicK. Two wrongs don't make a ____.
(Ten points for the correct answer.)
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Not liberal; progressive.
quote:Originally posted by Sunnyside: Gordon, you calling me a moron doesn't even rank as an insult from a pseudo high brow liberal such as yourself.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Neither would I, if it were true. However, in my case it's only 50%. (Sorry, not my fault.) LOL
quote:Originally posted by Sunnyside: I'm 100% jewish and have no problem making that statement.
Posted by MagicK on :
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: Not justifiable either, MagicK. Two wrongs don't make a ____.
(Ten points for the correct answer.)
C'mon man, even you have to know how stupid that sounds. There just supposed to sit there with rockets flying into their homes? No cause for alarm ladies and gents, just those pesky Lebanese acting up again. Nothing to see here, as you were.
Posted by Sunnyside on :
quote:Originally posted by MagicK:
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: Not justifiable either, MagicK. Two wrongs don't make a ____.
(Ten points for the correct answer.)
C'mon man, even you have to know how stupid that sounds. There just supposed to sit there with rockets flying into their homes? No cause for alarm ladies and gents, just those pesky Lebanese acting up again. Nothing to see here, as you were.
MagicK, I just think he's been smoking some really bad weed. No one can possibly say these things and not have an altered mental status.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
MagicK , I agree. However that doesn't mean I have to blindly support Israel and have no compassion for the lives taken by Israel in Lebanon.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Speaking of really bad weed, how much of it do you think is packed into Bush's head? It must be fighting with the cocaine for air!
quote:Originally posted by Sunnyside: MagicK, I just think he's been smoking some really bad weed. No one can possibly say these things and not have an altered mental status.
Posted by Sunnyside on :
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: Speaking of really bad weed, how much of it do you think is packed into Bush's head? It must be fighting with the cocaine for air!
quote:Originally posted by Sunnyside: MagicK, I just think he's been smoking some really bad weed. No one can possibly say these things and not have an altered mental status.
Ok Gordon, you got me there. Couldn't agree more. lol
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Maybe the Mad Dog 20/20 helps to loosen it all up a bit. LOL
Posted by Dustoff 1 on :
Bennett, I think you had better pay attention to Netanyahu...His comparisan to the Cuban Missle crisis is dead on..
I know he is not making decisions with a mind full of Mad Dog and Pot, or taking action with such a mind altering substance in his mind...
Ka---Pish?
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
I suppose that any time a group of missiles is pointed in your general direction, it's fair to make that comparison.
Posted by Dustoff 1 on :
Gaza and Southern Lebanon, Israel has troops on the ground now..
Posted by SuperSniper00 on :
IAF foils rocket transports from Syria
While army continues to strike Hizbullah, limit its weapons resources, outside groups trying to rearm group. IAF manages to bomb trucks transporting missiles from Syria. IDF Maj.-Gen. Eisenkot: These rockets belong to Syrian army
Posted by glassman on :
if Israel hits Syria? we may as well take out everything we can in Iran immediately before they strike Israel...
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Why is the US. dragging its feet in getting out American families in these combat areas? There must be a lot more to it than meets the eye, must be some political reason.
Posted by Griffon on :
It's a sad day when "people of the Book" fight each other. But then it's a sad day when children around the world are dying of hunger at the rate of 32,000 a day. Or when Sudanese people are left to die because we just don't care enough. Or when thousands die in yet another Tsunami. I weep for Palestinian, Israeli, Lebanese children who know too much violence, killing and being killed until violence and death is all they know. Will we, the whole human family, ever repent of our hatreds? Will we ever look into the eyes of our enemies and see people of sacred worth?
How many Rachel Cori's must step in front of bull-dozers to stop the brutality of settlement construction? How many children in Ramallah, Palestinian Authority must play near vats of oil where rats are cooked so they have something to eat? How many Arab Israeli children must find a victim of ethnic cleansing half buried in the dirt around Gish, the remains of nearly 60 years ago? How many Israelis must endure months and months of rockets fired over their heads and landing in their kitchens? How many refugees are forever scarred by the massacres at Sabra and Shatila? Will the cedars of Lebanon ever grow tall again?
My friends as I field more and more emails from friends in Lebanon, Palestine and Israel, some pleading for someone to hear their story, fearing their final hour is near, I know the people in that whole region are suffering. My question to you: can we love them enough, Muslim, Druze, Jew and Christian, to fight to preserve their humanity? Can we struggle with them to pull them back from the abyss? How I long to stand as a human barrier, unarmed but for the faith I carry, to keep fighting foes apart til the wounds scab over and some healing begins. Please people of faith, sisters and brothers all, join me in striving to find a path out of the madness. Others in your own ways, please do likewise.
Posted by Dustoff 1 on :
Somebody or something is stealing and or deleting my posts!!!! Whole pages of exhanges between RD and myself are missing....
Someone wanted to review the humorous exchange about me spectacal, periscope troops falling from the sky and missles coming at the two of us..RD was the straight man and we just let lose a bit..People on the home front were laughing their arses off..
Congreedess may here about this if we see it used somewhere... Who is zapping me posts?? and pages of extremely intelligouants DDt's anywho's" hmm just tell me's that! huh
Posted by bdgee on :
Dust, it isn't just you whose post disappear.
Posted by glassman on :
quote:My friends as I field more and more emails from friends in Lebanon, Palestine and Israel, some pleading for someone to hear their story, fearing their final hour is near, I know the people in that whole region are suffering. My question to you: can we love them enough, Muslim, Druze, Jew and Christian, to fight to preserve their humanity? Can we struggle with them to pull them back from the abyss? How I long to stand as a human barrier, unarmed but for the faith I carry, to keep fighting foes apart til the wounds scab over and some healing begins. Please people of faith, sisters and brothers all, join me in striving to find a path out of the madness. Others in your own ways, please do likewise.
you have my personal invitation to go stand on the border of Lebanon and Israel right now...
the terrorists must stop ...
Posted by Griffon on :
Agreed glassman, terrorism on both sides must stop. For that to happen the excesses of both sides must be recognized. The mistakes of 1947-8 when the fledgling UN failed to serve either people need to be acknowledged.
There are better peace programs that exist now and conscientious people need to act before this spreads.
Posted by glassman on :
Iran needs to stand down...
why can you not acknowledge that the issue here is about the Sunnis (Pakistan) having a nuke and the Shia not having a nuke?
Bush didn't even know the difference when he invaded iraq... the dems are in disarray...
the GOP doesn't have a moral position anymore, they just have better spin doctors...
the UN is not a church, it's no better or worse than any other political organisation
Posted by glassman on :
hezbolah is the fist of iran... the iranians are looking at the culmination of a 15 year plan... they were at war with sadam (unni) and we stepped in and finished it for THEM...
you think you can just step in and "make it all better"? this mess is not of our making.... we have made it worse
osambinalivetoolong? he just wants the crown of Saud... he has been trying to get US to help him
taliban translates religious students... think about it..
Posted by Griffon on :
My friend, you are looking at the situation at this moment as though it has been forever. The Iranians, first of all have not had a 15 year plan, but they are going to acquire nukes. Saddy's scientists are helping.
This mess is our making through colonialism and cold war.
Hezbollah was made by the 1948 decision that did so much damage to Arab and Israeli.
Read Ilan Pappe, Elias Chacour, David Grossman, Eduard Said, Marc Ellis and you will find the best explanation of the root causes of instability, the growth of Hezbollah and Fatah.
For instance, Hezbollah grew out of the Masscres at Sabra and Shatila, but that's getting ahead of myself. Let me give you a timeline that refers to Iraq:
Now while the last timeline only goes back to 1917 and the Balfour declaration, despite the popular idea that this has gone on since Isaac and Ishmael, the real tensions only really began around 1850. Palestinian national identity coalesced a century before that as the Ottoman Empire restructured.
As for Hezbollah (which does not mean Fist of Iran, it means "party of God" hez-bo-llah
We stepped in to finish Saddy off and Iran was found out for doing what it has long attempted with Russian help: fissile material. The purpose is to target Israel with whom they are at war, and the US, whom they view as the Great Satan.
Bin Laden wants more than the Saud crown, he wants a global state under his rule or a global ash heap.
The Pakistani weapon has little to do with this as Pakistani weapons are pointed South, not West. The dynamic between Sunni and Shia is not as severe as you imagine. It is being manipulated by Sunni who realize the US successful removal of Sady puts them out of the thuggery business.
Posted by glassman on :
you have so many facts wrong that it's a waste of time trying to 'splain it all to you..
i said hezbola IS the fist of Iran...
and i said Taliban TRANSLATES... d'oh... you can't comprehend what you read dude...
Posted by glassman on :
human nature 101:
BUTTHOLE SURFERS LYRICS
"Pepper"
Marky got with Sharon And Sharon got Sharice She was sharing Sharon's outlook On the topic of disease Mikey had a facial scar And Bobby was a racist They were all in love with dyin' They were doing it in Texas Tommy played piano Like a kid out in the rain Then he lost his leg in Dallas He was dancing with a train They were all in love with dyin' They were drinking from a fountain That was pouring like an avalanche Coming down the mountain I don't mind the sun sometimes The images it shows I can taste you on my lips And smell you in my clothes Cinnamon and sugary And softly spoken lies You never know just how you look Through other people's eyes Some will die in hot pursuit In fiery auto crashes Some will die in hot pursuit While sifting through my ashes Some will fall in love with life And drink it from a fountain That is pouring like an avalanche Coming down the mountain Posted by rimasco on :
"Saddy's scientists are helping." do you mean Saudi's?
If so I think you might be mistaken
The likeliest future nuclear exchange in the Middle East may not be between Israel and Iran, after all, but between Shi'a and Sunni Muslims.
The Pakistani bomb is a Sunni bomb. Tehran is hell-bent on having a Shi'a bomb to counter it. Sauds are comprised of mostly Sunni's
Posted by Griffon on :
"The Pakistani bomb is a Sunni bomb. Tehran is hell-bent on having a Shi'a bomb to counter it. Sauds are comprised of mostly Sunni's"
The above is a common misconception. Iran's seeking the bomb primarily to finish Israel off and to defend against the coalition. Pakistan is more occupied with the Hindu Bomb and Kashmir.
It will intensify between Pakistan and India too because if I heard correctly (I collect rocks and minerals) some HUGE wealth in mineral stores has been discovered in parts of Kashmire. Some claim pegmatites that will rival Minas Gerais, Brazil as a gemstone capitol. Others also suggest there may be oil but I do not know if that has really been found.
The Shi'a and Sunni will not exchange nuke blasts until they have dealt with those threats. The Sunni in Pakistan are closer to Iran than you think. The populace supports Iran because they see the bomb as a Muslim bomb that will be used against the West. Musharaff will not live forever and when it falls, Pakistan will ally with Iran and the remnants of the Taliban. The tie that will make this possible is the closer tie of ethnicity.
As to the Saddy's scientists, I was refering to Saddam Hussein's not Saudi's. Sorry for using an obscure abbreviation.
Posted by glassman on :
which of Sadams scientists?
you may have read alot of books, and wierd news articles griff, but you are really short on basic human nature
The above is a common misconception. Iran's seeking the bomb primarily to finish Israel off and to defend against the coalition. Pakistan is more occupied with the Hindu Bomb and Kashmir.
it's a common misconception shared by most of the world...including Iran.. LOL
Posted by Griffon on :
Yes you go on believing that Glass, listen to the Iranian pres.. I understand basic human nature very well: utter depravity.
Posted by glassman on :
look, you are missing out on human nature here.. Iran doesn't need the nukes to face off with the paki's
they want them to prove they aren't impotent
military viagra etc???
Posted by rimasco on :
"It will intensify between Pakistan and India too because if I heard correctly (I collect rocks and minerals) some HUGE wealth in mineral stores has been discovered in parts of Kashmire. Some claim pegmatites that will rival Minas Gerais, Brazil as a gemstone capitol. Others also suggest there may be oil but I do not know if that has really been found."
Whos your source...SHAKERZZZ???
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by Griffon: Yes you go on believing that Glass, listen to the Iranian pres.. I understand basic human nature very well: utter depravity.
you are correct, and you are in it
Posted by Griffon on :
so are you that's the fun dontcha see?
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Yep. They've also seen how Bush treats nations without WMDs.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: look, you are missing out on human nature here.. Iran doesn't need the nukes to face off with the paki's
they want them to prove they aren't impotent
military viagra etc???
Posted by Relentless. on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: look, you are missing out on human nature here.. Iran doesn't need the nukes to face off with the paki's
they want them to prove they aren't impotent
military viagra etc???
Glass.. are you reading or listening to what Iran's leader is actually saying? He's not trying to gain nuke technology to use in defense. His aim is the utter destruction of one of our very best friends. He's trying to lure our friend into a trap right now in the hopes that the world will see he is justified in attacking outright... our friend. Do you stand up for your friends? Posted by glassman on :
of course Relentless... i was referring to the Sunni/Shia issue, which some people don't understand...
after Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said his goal is to wipe out Israel? he doesn't leave US much choice does he? i'm all for taking out Irans nuke sites... if they ask for it? they should get it..
things didn't have to be the way they are right now tho... but they are what they are...
where's Superman when you need him?
Posted by Relentless. on :
ummm.. so this means we won't be arguing for the next three years about the Iran war? Thank God, cause our last arguement has taken a toll...
Posted by Dustoff 1 on :
R------> there any missle attacks today? 'been in the bunker, me specteecal is clearing from all the missle smoke....Don't see any 'Chutes yet....Red 'Chutes commies right?
Oh' O you better head for your bunker, East of you they are still launchin'...Nasty KA--boom-chu-a's
Posted by Dustoff 1 on :
cease fire talk on fox...for what it's worth.
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: ummm.. so this means we won't be arguing for the next three years about the Iran war? Thank God, cause our last arguement has taken a toll...
RD, you really didn't believe me when i told you i wasn't anti-war?
one of my jobs when i was "in"?
i had to wear a banana suit and a breather while we handled ordnance... if an accident happened? (please no) i had to run out and pick up the "silver ball" and take it to shore for some other poor goober to carry... 3 minutsesssss is what they alloted me... the paper work woulda lasted for months... in other words? outlasted me...
Posted by Dustoff 1 on :
Israeli's maximizing use of large bunker buster bombs dropped from F-15'S..Trying to minimize death of civilians to colateral damage, by non precision bombing..But' Daisy cutters can still go aray..
Posted by ruskin_muskin on :
EDITED!
Posted by Dustoff 1 on :
wow ruskin you've done it this time...Wow does that ever show an agenda..
mein kamp was only a hate filled window to the future... A window to Hell on Earth.
Posted by ruskin_muskin on :
quote:Originally posted by Dustoff 1: mein kamp was only a window to the future...
Have you read it?
Posted by Dustoff 1 on :
Parts, threw the stinking thing down, then gave it back to my Father...He said thats what I grew up with in the Tennessee...We discussed the book and what happened at great length..I saw him for the first time in my life on the brink of a tear..
My father was a Doctor during WW2, in the Army, need I say any more.
Posted by ruskin_muskin on :
war was cruel.. war is always cruel.. millions died.. across europe and far east. IMO china suffered the worst of WW2, although it is hardly talked about.. an average of 100 people are dying in iraq daily as of today.. not to mention frequent spikes of 300-500 sometimes.. with no end in sight.. whom do we blame it on? saddam? bush? iran? or stupid iraqis?
Posted by Dustoff 1 on :
To late ruskin...Your post stands as anti-semetic to the 10 power...'Been watching you change like a camillion lately to fit the moment..I suggest you drop this now, I have some thinking to do...Geez man, what you have done is really a louzy thing..
Posted by glassman on :
is RM quoting you out of context there dustff?
Posted by ruskin_muskin on :
why does criticising isreal always mean an insult to entire jewish population.. FYI jews are not just in isreal.. they are in US, in russia, in turkey, and so many places elsewhere.. i seriously dont understand why criticising isreal for its "disproportionate" war leads people to be be branded antisemetic.. and YES.. i would stand by a christian anytime if i have to take a stand against a jew and christian..
Posted by Relentless. on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman:
quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: ummm.. so this means we won't be arguing for the next three years about the Iran war? Thank God, cause our last arguement has taken a toll...
RD, you really didn't believe me when i told you i wasn't anti-war?
one of my jobs when i was "in"?
i had to wear a banana suit and a breather while we handled ordnance... if an accident happened? (please no) i had to run out and pick up the "silver ball" and take it to shore for some other poor goober to carry... 3 minutsesssss is what they alloted me... the paper work woulda lasted for months... in other words? outlasted me...
no, I actually believe you about that.. I just knew you were missing the point with the Iraq war.. Bush did a horrible job of outlining why we had to go there.. the commie media did a great job of avoiding logic when they were trying to get their boys back in power. Messy situation all around. At any rate I'm pretty sure that in a couple years time, we will see the Iraq battle as little more than a goose bump in comparrison.
Posted by Dustoff 1 on :
[QUOTE]Originally posted by glassman: is RM quoting you out of context there dustff? [/QUOTE ------------------------------------------------- WTF are you talking about dude..Spit it out.
Posted by glassman on :
something got edited here.. just wondering what...
Posted by Dustoff 1 on :
Is there a loose cannon mod? weird stuff going on in the edit department..A mole? a renagade..
Posted by T e x on :
wtf? you may be right, Dusty...
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Important Distinctions:
Criticism of the Israeli Government isn't anti-Semitic.
Criticism of the Bush Administration isn't anti-American.
Posted by glassman on :
true GB... politics and religion mix.... but they can be dangerous, like alcohol and gunpowder...
Posted by Dustoff 1 on :
the edit button or you reported your own post saved ole ruskins behind..LOL
You dodged an A bomb there dude..
you must of' 'went to thinking toooo.
Posted by ruskin_muskin on :
quote:Originally posted by Dustoff 1: you must of' 'went to thinking toooo.
kind of right on that... the post didnt reflect what I wanted to say.. so i edited it...
Posted by Griffon on :
"whom do we blame it on? saddam? bush? iran? or stupid iraqis?"
I would say the first three with the colonial and Cold War powers as well. US, Britain, France, Germany and Russia. All armed and encouraged Saddy, even after the Kurd and Iran gassings. All profitted at various stages along the way from Saddam's death dealing, except Iran which is the sole late comer to the Iraqi killing fields but they are fast catching up.
Posted by Relentless. on :
Roy Bass emerged from the Mediterranean waves at noon Friday for a Popsicle break when, surfboard in hand, he heard his cell phone ringing on the beach. It was a recorded message: "An emergency draft has been activated."
Four hours later, the 27-year-old computer programmer was at an army base, in full uniform, preparing to head to Israel's northern border, where troops were massing to take on Hezbollah guerrillas in Lebanon.
Israel's mighty military is comprised of thousands like Bass _ ordinary civilians who, at a moment's notice, respond to the call to arms.
On Friday, several thousand reservists were drafted for immediate, emergency duty. By Friday night, the army chief of staff announced the response was full, plus thousands who volunteered on their own initiative.
"The reserves have proven themselves once again," said Lt. Gen. Dan Halutz, the army chief of staff.
The enthusiastic response highlights the intimate relationship Israel has with its army. Nearly every Jewish Israeli has served in the army, and opinion polls consistently show the army to be the country's most trusted institution.
Since Israel became independent in 1948, reserves have been the backbone of its military, conditioned to drop everything and be mobilized within a day or two to back up the far smaller core of active duty soldiers. Men from all walks of life _ and increasingly women with special skills _ instantly become soldiers again.
Israel's standing army of about 186,500 troops can jump to 631,500 with rapid mobilization, according to figures from the Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies.
The system has proven effective in all of Israel's wars. In 1973, when Egypt and Syria attacked en masse on the Jewish holy day of Yom Kippur, thousands of reservists were summoned from their homes and synagogues and rushed to the front lines to push back the offensive.
Despite Israel's increasing reliance on technological superiority, military service remains a rite of passage. All 18-year-old men are drafted for three years and will continue to do reserves for about a month a year into their 40s, by which time many will have sons in the army or reserves. Women are drafted for two years.
As Israel's military dominance has grown, it has become less reliant on its reserves. The retirement age has been gradually lowered from 51 to 40 in some cases, and the number of reserves called up has steadily dropped, with the army focusing more on those with specialized skills, such as air force pilots and intelligence officers.
Some view the task the way Americans view jury duty _ boring and disruptive, especially for college students and the self-employed. Most, however, welcome it as a break from the rigors of daily life, a chance to bond with old comrades in a setting where a backgammon board is often a more important accessory than a rifle.
In peacetime, a reserve stint is something to be haggled over with a commanding officer with all sorts of excuses _ a college exam, an overseas vacation, a spell of dental surgery.
But when the call-up is an "Order 8," military parlance for an emergency summons, the response is visceral.
"All of a sudden it becomes a real war, it changes everything," Bass said by cell phone from his base in northern Israel.
Bass serves annually in his armored battalion, but this is his first Order 8.
Where once Israelis were drafted to war by air raid sirens, passwords over the radio and recruiters going door to door, today they are summoned by computerized calls to their cell phones.
When Bass got his call-up, he sped home and swapped his bathing suit for an army uniform.
"There was no dilemma, no doubt in my mind because it is something you grow up with, that this is the most important thing there is," he said. "It's ingrained deep inside you _ if they call you, you go."
Even without a war, reservists are as much at risk as regular soldiers. The two soldiers who were kidnapped by Hezbollah on the Lebanon border, triggering the current round of fighting, were reservists.
Ephraim Sneh, a lawmaker and former general, said his three parliamentary assistants were drafted for emergency duty. He said those who are called are genuinely needed and, therefore, "whoever serves, serves with joy."
"The destiny of Israel is the hands of the few, and we owe our lives to the few," he said. "Those who are on the front lines were always the few, but thanks to these devoted people we are still here."
Posted by Relentless. on :
Israeli targets in U.S. on heightened alert Fear of attacks by Hezbollah sleeper agents as military campaign continues --WND
U.N. chief calls Hezbollah cowards For blending among Lebanese civilians, causing deaths of hundreds --Associated Press
U.S. rules out talks with Hezbollah Snow: 'It's not like they have a foreign ministry. It's a terror organization' --Agence France-Presse
Rice makes surprise visit to Beirut Secretary of State meets with Lebanese officials ahead of Israel stop --Associated Press
WorldNetDaily Exclusive Iran soldiers killed in Lebanon transferred to Tehran via Syria Follows info Revolutionary Guard units assisting Hezbollah against Jewish state --WND
'No place' will be safe for Israelis Hezbollah envoy in Iran strikes defiant tone --Associated Press
Israel captures 2 Hezbollah terrorists 1st prisoners of war taken since fighting broke out --Jerusalem Post
Arabs press Syria to end Hezbollah support Israeli soldier admits: 'It's hard to beat them. They're not afraid of anything' --Associated Press
U.S. unlikely to send troops to Lebanon But Bush's chief of staff says international peacekeepers might be needed --Associated Press
Israel: We'd accept NATO-led troops Defense minister says OK with temporary international force --Associated Press
Iran: Boycott American products Bulletin claims Pepsi stands for 'pay each penny to save Israel' --Time
BBC admits many Lebanese casualties 'terrorists' Early reports indicated civilians were bearing brunt of damage --Israel National News
WorldNetDaily Exclusive Palestinian terrorists to target U.S. Al Aqsa leader issues threat amid concerns Hezbollah on American soil --WND
WorldNetDaily U.S. to give Israel week to complete offensive? Israeli officials believe Rice travel schedule, diplomatic efforts permit Jewish state 7 days --WND
Posted by glassman on :
Israeli targets in U.S. on heightened alert Fear of attacks by Hezbollah sleeper agents as military campaign continues --WND
i interpret that as anywhere in the US...
Posted by Relentless. on :
Yep Pretty sure we'll see some sort of attack because of all this.
Posted by glassman on :
too bad they won't just try to land down at the beach on Deer Island for a toe-to-toe huh?
Posted by Relentless. on :
LOL.. man how happy I would be. I can hit deer island from my house with a .22 Me and a bunch of rednecks sitting on the beach drinking beer shooting terrorists saving the world
Posted by rimasco on :
We have to learn to embrace their threats and and show them that we fear NOTHING!!! I think they forget how vicious we can be once we get off our fat lazy asses!
BRING IT!! YOU'LL LOSE THE NUMBERS GAME!!!!
Posted by rimasco on :
Israeli's made some nice progress over the past couple of days.......
BIG UP!!!
Posted by bdgee on :
Sounds like dubya saying, "BRING IT ON".....
Sadly, they brought it on.
Posted by rimasco on :
In this particular situation...its better then sounding like Clinton saying, "LETS SEND THEM A NASTY LETTER"....
Posted by bdgee on :
Clinton never said such a thing.
Why do you guys insist on bashing an EX-president and why do you have to make up tales that are nothing but lies to do so?
Posted by rimasco on :
I was referring to SANCTIONS...c'mon
Why do you guys insist on bashing an acting president of their own country. why dont you move to one of the other 190+ countries and see how its tolerated. OH GOD!..... the guys a screw up its no secret..anybody with half a brain knows this. Give it a rest and stop feeding into the undermining and sabatoge of your country.
You people are soooo friggen smart you dont even realize the consequences at seeing this guy fail.
bunch of programmed dopes! relax he'll be out in 3 years......and Giuliani will be in!! LOLOLOL
Posted by bdgee on :
You were telling a lie about someone that can't do anything now and that's the sum and total of it.
The hopeless failure is in ofice now.
What dubya's ignorance has brought onto the U.S.A. with his simple minded school yard bully approach to diplomacy will take generations to overcome, IF it ever can be.
What he desires is a bunch of programmed dupes goose stepping and heiling to the leader.
Posted by Relentless. on :
They said the same thing about Reagan when he was confronting the ruskies..
Posted by Relentless. on :
Iran testing Israel ahead of confrontation? Lebanese leader says Tehran trying out its weapons, intel in Hezbollah conflict
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted: July 27, 2006 1:00 a.m. Eastern
Druze leader Walid Jumblatt (radiofarda.com) JERUSALEM – Tehran is using Hezbollah's confrontation with the Jewish state to test the abilities of Iranian weapons and to observe Israeli military capabilities, Lebanon's Druze leader Walid Jumblatt charged in a WorldNetDaily interview yesterday.
Jumblatt also said he fears Syria will take advantage of the growing crisis in Lebanon to reassert its influence in the country and convince the international community Syrian domination of Lebanon is crucial to the stability of the Middle East.
He warned Damascus might initiate a wave of terror in Lebanon following Israel's military campaign there to further destabilize the country, including by assassinating the Lebanese prime minister.
"Iran is bringing in [to Lebanon] sophisticated weaponry," said Jumblatt who is head of Lebanon's Progressive Socialist Party and is largely considered the most prominent anti-Syrian Lebanese politician. "The Iranians are actually experimenting with different kinds of missiles in Lebanon by shooting them at the Israelis. Iran is using this violence to test certain of [Israel's] abilities,"
Iran is accused of supplying Hezbollah was thousands of rockets the terror group has launched the past three weeks into northern Israeli population centers, including Haifa, the country's third largest city. Many of the fired rockets have been Katyushas he says were upgraded by Iran. Hezbollah is also in possession of Iranian Zalzel missiles, with a range of about 125 miles, making Tel Aviv vulnerable.
Earlier this month, an Iranian Silkworm C-802 radar-guided anti-ship cruise missile struck an Israeli naval vessel, killing four soldiers. It was the first time the missile had been introduced in the battle with Israel. Military officials here say the Israeli ship's radar system was not calibrated to detect the Silkworm, which is equipped with an advanced anti-tracking system.
Jumblatt said he is worried Syria might try to gain more control of Lebanon following Israel's military campaign.
"Syria will likely try to tell the world, 'Look, see, since we left Lebanon the Cedar Revolution and the forces in Lebanon that got our military out through popular support, those forces are not able to control Lebanon. While we (the Syrians) were in control, Lebanon was a safe place. Now it's not. We need to come back in,'" said Jumblatt.
"I would not be surprised if they even try to wiggle their way into a deal by convincing the Americans that Syrian influence in Lebanon will stabilize the region," Jumblatt said.
Syria originally sent forces into Lebanon in 1976 during the Lebanese Civil War. It militarily occupied the country until Syrian troops withdrew last year under intense international pressure following the assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafiq Hariri, for which Damascus was widely blamed.
Hundreds of thousands of Lebanese, led by Jumblatt and other anti-Syrian politicians, had staged a "Cedar Revolution" of popular protests demanding freedom from Damascus.
Jumblatt predicted Syria will attempt to further destabilize Lebanon to advance the argument of asserting its influence in the country.
"I would not be surprised if the Syrians try to overthrow our government and assassinate [Lebanese Prime Minister Faud] Sinora. [Syrian President Bashar] Assad made comments last month about al-Qaida infiltrating Lebanon. Now Assad can send into our country the same extremists he has been sending into Iraq to blow themselves up and wreak havoc here and blame it on al-Qaida. No one can prevent him from doing this."
Asked if he feared another full-scale Syrian military occupation of Lebanon, Jumblatt replied, "Another? In truth the Syrians never left Lebanon. They triggered this war through their proxy Hezbollah. They continue to hold us hostage."
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
Nice to hear someone from Lebanon telling it straight. I have very little doubt that what Jumblatt is saying is the truth.
That doesn't mean Hezbollah doesn't need to get rooted out though. Perhaps the Progressive Socialist Party will gain enough ground that they will be able to work with Israel to destroy the group. (yeah...right)
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
i cant believe some of you are against israel in this.
Posted by glassman on :
CCM...
i was on the road almost all day today...
i got BBC World Talk on the radio.. for two straight hours this poor Israeli Ambassador took calls from all over the world ranting on him...(moslty from England)
i couldn't beleive it... they said every nasty thing you can think of... he kept patiently saying:
As long as Hezbolah uses human shields? They are the guilty party....
i couldn't believe the crap they dished out to him...
it's like people don't understand that Hezbolah had 12,000 rockets pointed into Israel....
sad...
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
hezbollah should be the front on the war on terror. it was hezbollah who blew up the marine barracks in beruit. i would have much rather fought them than go to iraq.
Posted by glassman on :
another quirk in history? the French actually did retaliate for that one...
President Ronald Reagan called the attack a "despicable act" and pledged to keep a military force in Lebanon. Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger said there would be no change in the U.S.'s Lebanon policy. On October 24 French President François Mitterrand visited the French bomb site. It was not an official visit, and he only stayed for a few hours, but he did declare: "We will stay." U.S. Vice President George Bush toured the marine bombing site on October 26 and said the U.S. "would not be cowed by terrorists."
In retaliation for the attacks, France launched an air strike in the Beqaa Valley against Iranian Revolutionary Guard positions. President Reagan assembled his national security team and planned to target the Sheik Abdullah barracks in Baalbek, Lebanon, which housed Iranian Revolutionary Guards believed to be training Hezbollah fighters. But Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger aborted the mission, reportedly because of his concerns that it would harm U.S. relations with other Arab nations.
Besides a few shellings, there was no serious retaliation for the Beirut bombing from the Americans. In December 1983, U.S. aircraft attacked Syrian targets in Lebanon, but this was in response to Syrian missile attacks on planes, not the barracks bombing.
The Marines were moved offshore where they could not be targeted. On February 7, 1984, the order was given for the Marines to begin withdrawal from Lebanon. This was completed on February 26; the rest of the MNF was withdrawn by April.
that's when i was in the Navy.... i thought we were gonna get Iran.... i joined while Carter was still in office and the hostages were being held...
this "round" prolly isn't gonna end until after we or Israel dumps a few bunker busters in Irans you know what....
Isral is deadsrt on pushing hezbolah out of Lebanon, and i don't think they are gonna leave without a lot more "help"... it would be a good thing to settle the Iran nuke issue this year..so it isn't "lurking"
Posted by bond006 on :
Israel like any other nation has the right to defend itself and thats really all there is to that
Posted by john wayne on :
Amen to that Bond.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Sure. As long as the punishment fits the crime.
quote:Originally posted by bond006: Israel like any other nation has the right to defend itself and thats really all there is to that
Guy walks in and says: 'I am a Muslim American, angry at Israel,' Then starts shooting randomly... Seems like a set up to me.
Posted by glassman on :
yeah....
martyrs everywhere....
Posted by BuckyBarnes on :
I'll echo the same sentiment!!!
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. " Ben Franklin, Founding Father
quote:Originally posted by bond006: Israel like any other nation has the right to defend itself and thats really all there is to that
Posted by glassman on :
LOL
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Actually, the correct quote is in my signature...
quote:Originally posted by BuckyBarnes: I'll echo the same sentiment!!!
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. " Ben Franklin, Founding Father
quote:Originally posted by bond006: Israel like any other nation has the right to defend itself and thats really all there is to that
Posted by Relentless. on :
By BASSEM MROUE
(AP) Lebanese supporters of the Lebanese Communist party and pro-Hezbollah groups wave Lebanese and... Full Image
BEIRUT, Lebanon (AP) - The Lebanese parliamentary speaker, a prominent Shiite who has been negotiating on behalf of Hezbollah, rejected the U.S.-French draft of U.N. cease-fire resolution on Sunday because it did not include the government's plan for ending the fighting.
Nabih Berri said Lebanon would not accept any terms that did not include a government plan calling for an immediate cease-fire and withdrawal of Israeli troops.
"Lebanon, all of Lebanon, rejects any talks and or any draft resolution that does not include the seven-point government framework," Berri said at a news conference in Beirut.
Prime Minister Fuad Saniora first offered the plan, later adopted by his Cabinet, during the Rome crisis summit July 26.
The seven-point proposal calls for a mutual release of prisoners held by Israeli and Hezbollah and the withdrawal of Israeli troops from southern Lebanon. It foresees the Lebanese government taking control of southern Lebanon with the help of an international force.
The U.S.-French proposal, which was expected to go to the floor of the U.N. Security Council early this week, calls for Hezbollah to stop all military operations and for Israel to stop its offensive drive against Lebanon. The proposal would allow Israel to strike back if Hezbollah were to break a cease-fire.
Posted by glassman on :
Hezbolah is now launching Ababil (swallow) UAV's... they are guided and have a flight time of 90 minutes... Iran makes them... 30 hp 2 cylinder engine
someone put saddam back in charge because he is the only one who knows how to put that country on lock down. obviously this current administration does not know how. more people dying every day now than before we invaded.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
if anyone likes country at all these guys wrote these songs while in baghdad...basically some arkansas national guard guys wondering why the hell they are in baghdad
all the lyrics are pretty much on point and a direct reflections of how soldiers feel over there
Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: someone put saddam back in charge because he is the only one who knows how to put that country on lock down. obviously this current administration does not know how. more people dying every day now than before we invaded.
I don't have to like the b*st*rd or his methods to admit that he did what no one before (and probably no one after) could......he stopped the internal death squads and removed the place from a pure hell of religious dogma.
An Iranian lady refugee finally got me to understaand some years ago that those people are not ready for self governance and can't be until at least a couple of generations of actual education of the children. When religion dictates to children's education, hatered is enevitable.
Posted by Relentless. on :
Good point Bdgee, but a strong leader of a non-democratis state doesn't have to be cruel. Either way, it's going to be a long time before they are ready for self governance. We are pushing them too fast for an end they don't really want.
Posted by bdgee on :
I can't take credit for the idea, Relentless. It was suggesteed to me by an Iranian refugee.
Posted by Relentless. on :
I can't take credit for agreeing with you.. it's was my oxygen deprived twin. Posted by bdgee on :
Oh, the smart twin.....
Posted by Relentless. on :
lol.. yeah one of us.. You know, if you take time to think about it.. There really isn't any proof that we are capable of self governance either.
Posted by T e x on :
Oh...c'mon...sure there is...
the way we've handled utility fiefdoms is *at least* anecdotal evidence that we have no clue...
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
id like to see what saddam would do when he saw islamic extremists blowing up markets and shops in baghdad in the name of allah. saddam was secular..he could have cared less about islam to be honest. i believe he just acted the act and walked the walk to appeal to other nations run by islamic rule for favors.
Posted by glassman on :
CCM....
he would have found out who did it and punished their families....
Posted by thinkmoney on :
I do npt support hezbollah nor israel in this. I do support american interests and they differ from Israel's.
I do think Hezbollah fights to win. so Hezbollah is using human shields so let israel fight hezbollah not the human shiels hezbollah uses. That is why Israel and usa losing support and making hatred.
Why are we escalalting american hatred?
Let israel fight Hezbollah- is hezbollah too smart that they fall into their trap and kill the civilians? Does it take man to man fight so civilina are not the ones that suffer most?
Does isreal have the strength to fight hezbollah and not kill innocent llebanese? Anyone can bomb but can the best fighters will win. Win is opinion of the populace tooo.
Usa repeats syria/iran giving hezbollah 100 M each year...I bet USa gives israel more. So- wake up - usa supportsed and supports israel at expense of usa. so --this war is ww3 and i think usa better think of its interests. Why is my childrens future at risk for israel? Why may my kids witnes war in the usa for Israel?
Again, I do not support hezbollah nor israel. I think usa should have not supported israel since 1948 against its interests. I do not think Irael is worth ww3 and my kids life and possibly end ot the americna status quo.
Posted by glassman on :
Why are we escalalting american hatred?
very good question....
let me put on my tin foil hat for a moment:
OK, on snug.... because a war president is infinitely more powerful than a peace president....
OK tin foil hat off now, for the time being... Posted by andrew on :
If Hezbollah, Alqeda and Hamas and any other terrorist Islamic extremist would all put their weapons down....You would have peace.
If Isreal put their weapons down they would be wiped off the map. Isreal has to fight.
Biblically Isreal can not or will not be defeated. I truely beleive this. No country can destroy Isreal. Thats why they are our allie.
Biblically this is the beginning of the end. Of course this is all just my opinion.
Posted by andrew on :
I know it sounds contridicting...but I hope you get my point.
Posted by thinkmoney on :
If Israel wants to fight, then its choice. I do not think the usa shouldsupport israel at expense of escalating american hatred.
To win the terror war, you got to win the populaces...and escalalting american hatred gets moreand more folks exttremsit ready to kill americans.
1 in a 1000 then 1 ina 100 then 10 ina hundred then 50 in a hundred then 100 of 100 agaisnt us...
Then war is no longer in favor of usa...
nuke them? well..then iran has nukes...
so..our kids get hurt and no future...
for what?
for the defense of israel?
lwt israel defend its interests and let usa defend its...and many tiems israels' interests harm usa...and enuff ..
Whatever the outcome..next time...the war will be fiercer...
I love the usa..and i want american interests and leaders that aweare of usa interests. Wh yare we denying my kids their future?
There is another way..not appeasement but certainly not being antagonistic and controlling...
Posted by andrew on :
People say "War on terror". Terror is an act. Its not a War on terror. Its a War against Islamic facist. Should we turn our backs and run? I just wish the left would come up with some kind of plan. They offer nothing.
Posted by Relentless. on :
This cease fire will bring on a worse war than anything we can imagine now.
Posted by glassman on :
the "left"? plans?... don't blame them Andrew, Bush is in charge..
it's getting worse...
Posted by Relentless. on :
Heaadlines: Hezbollah Fires 250 Rockets Into Israel...
The real news? Idiots are winning. Israel is giving in just like the terrorists knew they would. A cease fire now means a far worse confrontation later...
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you know? i've read that a couple times now, and i'm still not sure if it's an anti-semitic statement or not