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Here we go... now Russia is flexing a bit after we told Korea they couldn't test a missle.. Russia says.. Oh yeah?.. whatcha gonna do about this?
MOSCOW – Russia test-fired a ballistic missile Friday from a submarine in the Barents Sea to the Kamchatka peninsula in the country's far east, defense officials said. The missile landed on the Kura test range some 3,000 miles away.
“The successful firing confirmed the high readiness of the Navy Strategic Nuclear Forces and the effectiveness of the military command system,” Navy spokesman Capt. Igor Dygalo said in a statement. Last week, Russia summoned North Korea's ambassador to express alarm that Pyongyang was apparently planning to launch a long-range missile, warning him of Moscow's opposition to any steps that would destabilize the region.
According to intelligence reports, the missile, a Taepodong-2, was being fueled at a launch pad on North Korea's northeastern coast. A U.S. government estimate puts the range of the Taepodong-2 missile at between 5,000 and 7,500 miles, making it capable of reaching the United States.
-------------------- Spend word for word with me and I shall make your wit bankrupt
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but I think they figured the press wouldn't have highlighted that story so much.
see? here's where i take issue with the neo-cons BS machine again...
the free press is what we are fighting for dammit...
not much else is ever really free...
war gamers have included the press from day one...
the misstep? IMO? was not using twice as many troops to take Iraq....
but then? we woulda been even thinner....
the 20/20 hindsight?? (which was put forward by the CIA)
we ship a half ton or a ton of gold coins into Afghanistan, and offer real shiny GOLD for osambinalivetoolongs and sadams head? we'd have them already and the CIA coulda continued on with the EXCELLENT job they've always done when given the true green light.. they are the chess players...
Rummy and Cheney and the other neo-cons are already financially inevested in the military, that's why we did it the way we did... i bet that if you did some real digging? theres some bad blood over CIA contracts at HAL from somewhere in the recent past... i don't even want to know the details, but that's what my research points to....
Perot and Bush the first had similar bad blood..
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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Perot was the only real conservative to run in my memory... Glass.. free press? I'd sure like them to cover our side of the story just once before the end of the world.. So far they have done a fine job of making third world terror chumps into freedom fighters capable of giving jesus a lesson in morality...
-------------------- Spend word for word with me and I shall make your wit bankrupt
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Who are we fighting? And what are we fighting for ? Can we beat this enemy ? Is there a Clean and deciecive Victory, anywhere ? How do we plant the flag and bring the troops home?
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So far they have done a fine job of making third world terror chumps into freedom fighters capable of giving jesus a lesson in morality...
the way i see it? there are a few people fighting to keep US from turning into what we are fighting...
how many terrorists are there? Iran is our enemy... we should be fighting them already IMO.... the war in Iraq takes away from that...
everybody seems to forget all the NY Times articles Judith Miller put out... at the request of Cheney and Rove.... they did put out BUSHES side.... it was all crap...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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We tried land bases in Nam......Didn't work. I understand your thinking, but we as a country will not do a Coloniel power trip for the duration.However there is Korea.
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Fight Iran now?.. I'm all for it.. but you and I both know we are going to have to go to the UN first.. then ten years later when Iran has a nuke we'll have to get a fifteenth resolution from the UN and we'll be right back where we started. Bush is nutless.. we need a cowboy.. not some rich kid who wears cowboy boots.
-------------------- Spend word for word with me and I shall make your wit bankrupt
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if Bush had spent some energy making the case that Iran was a terrorist sponsor back in '02 (which they ARE) instead of wasting our efforts on Saddam? we coulda done something already... our reputation in the world has been tainted by the Iraq war...
Richard Clarke told US what happened a long time ago..and he got "Roved"... go back and read what he had to say...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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In retrospect we had Saddam contained, and Iraq stable as could be expected..A true leader would of used that..Saddam acts up? whack down goes a palice, and so and so forth.
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In the aftermath of Sept. 11, President Bush ordered his then top anti-terrorism adviser to look for a link between Iraq and the attacks, despite being told there didn't seem to be one.
Clarke says that as early as the day after the attacks, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld was pushing for retaliatory strikes on Iraq, even though al Qaeda was based in Afghanistan.
Clarke helped shape U.S. policy on terrorism under President Reagan and the first President Bush. He was held over by President Clinton to be his terrorism czar, then held over again by the current President Bush.
When the terrorists struck, it was thought the White House would be the next target, so it was evacuated. Clarke was one of only a handful of people who stayed behind. He ran the government's response to the attacks from the Situation Room in the West Wing.
he stayed at his POST and took responsibility....
thats something we don't see much of these days...
"Rumsfeld was saying that we needed to bomb Iraq," Clarke said to Stahl. "And we all said ... no, no. Al-Qaeda is in Afghanistan. We need to bomb Afghanistan. And Rumsfeld said there aren't any good targets in Afghanistan. And there are lots of good targets in Iraq. I said, 'Well, there are lots of good targets in lots of places, but Iraq had nothing to do with it.
"Initially, I thought when he said, 'There aren't enough targets in-- in Afghanistan,' I thought he was joking.
"I think they wanted to believe that there was a connection, but the CIA was sitting there, the FBI was sitting there, I was sitting there saying we've looked at this issue for years. For years we've looked and there's just no connection."
Clarke says he and CIA Director George Tenet told that to Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Colin Powell, and Attorney General John Ashcroft.
the keystone cops are running the country... and the idjits keep making more excuses...
read that again: the CIA and the FBI KNEW Iraq was not involved in alqueda terrorism....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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It has been proven there was a link between Iraq and Al-Qaeda... Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11 but as we have discussed there were valid reasons to include Iraq in the war on terror... Funny how every thread on this page turns into an Iraq debate where all the same arguements are stated over and over and over...
-------------------- Spend word for word with me and I shall make your wit bankrupt
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We can not continue this course and speed at all cost...What the solution is ? I do not know.... I just know in my very being that something is horribly wrong with this administration, and the course of action, it has led this country we proudly call America..
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless Despot: It has been proven there was a link between Iraq and Al-Qaeda... Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11 but as we have discussed there were valid reasons to include Iraq in the war on terror... Funny how every thread on this page turns into an Iraq debate where all the same arguements are stated over and over and over...
huh?
zarqawi was not there associating with sadam....
The Z-man found shelter in Iran for a while, but Colin Powell didn't care. According to U.S. intelligence, Zarqawi traveled to Iraq in early 2002, and allegedly began associating with Ansar al-Islam, an impoverished group of 600 to 800 Iraqi Kurds whose stated goal was to secede from Saddam's Iraq so that its tiny, ethnically exclusive clan could go hide out in the mountains.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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RD, link didn't work...But, now ya went and did it! I think I just may do something I have not done for sometime...I am going to look up some very old news accounts and stories for some kind of different direction to ponder, other than normal news services books articles ect...
It's a very old account of things, think the book was written by a greek in 300 ad.
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Another very bad day in Iraq...Looks like hundreds killed....All this killing is no good.
Don't know 'bout the rest of ya, but the waste of human life I see now, has tempered and begun to remove my own personal feeling of revenge.. Justice ? really becoming clouded....
How this thing plays out is in the hands of powerful people....But we sit on juries and we have the power of the vote..
We have freedom of speach, we have freedom of movement to go where ever we want, when we want to, we have our families hopefully safe and secure... When you think in just human terms, even tho for centuries this is the way of the middle east, it does make ya wonder how a father tries to keep his family safe, in such a hell on Earth.
Most of us are on the sidelines, in many cases confused and unfulfilled with a limited understanding of what in the hell is really going on.
Maybe the answer is simple...There is not an answer.
posted
Take the lesson Dust and try to show others too. A call for blood ends in blood. War is no answer. Diplomats may well be sleezy and crooked but that can be contained with a wary public. Once the dogs are unleashed though...not much to do but pray for it to end and hope no one else unleashes the dogs before people find a way to work together to clean up the mess.
Only thing we can do is try and take the time to understand our neighbor.
BF
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues.
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless Despot: It has been proven there was a link between Iraq and Al-Qaeda... Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11 but as we have discussed there were valid reasons to include Iraq in the war on terror... Funny how every thread on this page turns into an Iraq debate where all the same arguements are stated over and over and over...
Why on Earth do you guys keep lambasting rational thought with these lies?
Do you really believe that we are so simple minded we will, in the face of overwheling and irrefutable proof to the contrary, believe your lies simply because you repeat absurd nonsense over and over,
incessantly,
relentlessly,
repeatedly,
tirelessly,
without end,
without rest,
without stopping,
forever?
(Please stop the broken record!)
Or is it the case that you are, guilelessly, so simple minded you can't see you are lying?
There was no valid reason for the invasion of Iraq. It was done in spite of the Administration knowing that Saddam and Iraq were NOT involved with al Qaeda and had no participation in 9/11. There were no WMDs in Iraq. Saddam and his government imposed NO threat to the U.S. Saddam and his government were unable to impose ANY threat to the U.S. any time in the foreseable future. Any statements to the contrary are absurd lies.
The only threats to the U.S. stemming from Iraq is the probable (possibly devastating) damping of our economic well being from the price of the invasion of that soveriegn nation and the already begun morphing of our democratic culture to a facist regime of the privileged in order to "justify" an illegal war.
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Only threats to the U.S. economic ? There are many families who would disagree with that, on bothsides.
What do you suggest? Total and immediate withdrawl from all theatres of action in the region?
I see a statement in your post, which is anger and disgust, we all think and feel all over the map on this one....What I don't see, is an attempt at a solution.
Blind hatred, solves nothing, this whole War proves that.
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You sometimews see things that aren't there, like all of us.
What is this? A resort to the politics of the RNC? Deflect concerns about the mess this Administration and it's followers have gotten us in by declaring until a "solution" is provided there is not problem? I don't provide hatred, I provide a position that refuses to blindly kowtow to the Administrations tune of repeated claims of false reasons for invading Iraq. The only reason they offered us when they did it was WMDs and Saddam/al Qaeda ties.
Those were lies! After the fact, they want us to forget the truth and accept their fabricated notion that there were OTHER REASONS THAT WE ACCEPTED BEFORE THE INVASION. That is more lies! We had no part in invading Iraq for reasons other than to prevent Saddam from attacking us with WMDs and supplying terrorist groups (specifically claimed by the Administration to be his partner, al Qaeda.
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A resort to the tactic's of the RNC ? See things that are not there?
Come on dude, I do not need the RNC to see your hatred...Your hatred of the RNC blinds you to your own agenda....Any reader can see I am not some kind of hidden operative for the RNC...Do you lack the ability to comprehend some of my statements about this War? I spent my time in Hell for people like you..Would do it again, some have to go while others don't, thats the military.
Things not there? Many times a fella has to put himself in the other guys shoes to get a grasp on perspective....Are you going to tell me you never do the same....Or is that thinking like a RNC puppet..Give readers a break with that nonsense.
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Actually bdgee if you'd care to look I noted that any connection between Iraq and al-qaeda had nothing to do with 9-11 and was minimal besides that. Surely that cannot be termed party line thinking from a wild right wing conspiracist such as I am. I think... Everyone.. I think bdgee needs a nice big group hug...
-------------------- Spend word for word with me and I shall make your wit bankrupt
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And Missiles with Atomic Warheads for all' Oh' the Atomic explosions in thin air, the explosions in dense air, and ground entry device's to just clear all the air!
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