posted
Gordon, Bush was too courageous to be taken into protective custody... he was trying to read to kids... too bad he didn't have his readin' glasses on, look at the book
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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looniness is OK.. i'm the first one to admit i'm an odd person...
it don't bodder me a bit (well most of the time)
i just think griffon is a bit "full of himself"
look here..
To answer your question about waiting for an invitation: I am new to this site and unsure of its etiquette so "Yes" I was waiting for your invite. I am writing this freshly because I need to edit out the academic jargon.
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Very telling about you Glassman. You sit here and post for a half hour about him after you know he's gone to bed for the night. Real classy guy. Hey he's in church now guys.... I can tell you you are safe for the next few hours....... sneak a few more in.
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You know, folks, this is a little obsessive on your part, the continuing denigration of me once I leave for the day. Let's have this conversation right now, and let me begin by saying, my initial assertion is sound: Many Democrats cannot tolerate a person with a different viewpoint.
Where did I arrive at this thought?
"bush Family Nazi connection"
"Bush sexually harasses Angela Merkel"
"Bush vetoes first Bill"
"Bush Makes Clearance Decisions"
Go back and look at your discussions. It's all about how much Bush is an idiot, how much you hate him, how much he's a Nazi.
Now as an apolitical person, that kind of language is pretensious, self-righteous, hypocritical from people claiming to be tolerant of other views. In fact, it raises my level of sympathy for the President. So I try to give you a taste of your own medicine: namely I throw insults at the Democrats who claim they do not hate but then blast moderates like me, conservatives like my brother, or any Christians of orthodox theology.
Jordan's first comment to me was, "You're a Christian you have no credibility with me."
As to you comments after I went to bed, since Carter was involved with Saddam, I was ready to move on Friday night as I said in my last post, but then I get this person calling me "a-hole," saying I am condescending: I am condescending when I say after being called a name: bless you! After all, I do not use foul language to speak about someone.
"just think griffon is a bit "full of himself"
look here..
To answer your question about waiting for an invitation: I am new to this site and unsure of its etiquette so "Yes" I was waiting for your invite."
What is "full of myself" in acknowledging that I am not experienced in your etiquette? What is full of myself in waiting as a new-comer to be invited to do something? See you have had little or no challenge to your prevailing assumptions so long you think your way of thinking is what everyone thinks. So when challenges your assumpions you get hot and bothered.
"it's usually a feminine trait... but Christains learn it from The Book so men sometimes use it..."
Now you're just trying to bait me into being upset. I will not fall for your trap, but it does point your hypocricy out rather well.
"hezbolah is trying to use it right now to get the UN to sanction Israel"
Actually, Hezbollah is trying to get the Arab world to rise up as part of that Iranian plan you mentioned a few days ago.
Let me ask, with all that internet "research" you have done, have you ever gone to Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Palestine, Syria, Jordan, Israel or Egypt? How about in the last five years? Internet is good for one thing: beginning research, but try to use internet files as your primary sourcework for graduate studies in most college or graduate programs outside of the study of that field. It is written into their syllabi, rule books, etc. so obviously it's not just a matter of the rules being out of date.
The point is when it comes time to do real research, get down to the nitty gritty, they will ask for primary sources to be one of three things: field research, books/professional journals or e-versions of those materials. You cannot use other material as primary source material, but you can cite them and use them in a secondary capacity.
"i posted you a picture i found specifically for YOU and you felt the "need" to lecture me about it...that is condescending..."
Again not condescention. I was interpreting the picture, not lecturing, though I understand how you took it that way. Your anger at that point, like my frustration was mis-directed. I was seeing what you were suggesting about me and explaining where you are mistaken about me.
"they say a picture is worth a thousand words... instead of lecturing me? why don't you stop and ponder what i was really trying tell YOU...."
Here you are condescending. "It never occurred to you that i am well aware that some people (YOU) are trying to bring about the RETURN by fulfilling certain aspects of revelations did it?"
Here's your mistaken assumption about me. This is an absolute absurd assumption and I would love to hear where you came up with it. I don't even believe in that view of Revelations. Revelation is not written about this event in time; it is written about the Roman Empire. Because it is apocalyptic it has lessons to draw from, most of which are not complementary of the present war and the US role in it. As a post-millenialist, I believe we need to work to make the world more like the Kingdom of God represented in Isaiah Swords into plowshares, lions and lambs, children and adders nests, and in Revelation 21:
"See, the home of God is among mortals. He will dwell with them as their God;c they will be his peoples and God himself will be with them; he will wipe every tear from their eyes. Death will be no more; mourning and crying and pain will be no more, for the first things have passed away.”"
That is the society we are working to bring. You just assumed because I am a Christian that your view of eschatology was the one I had. You're lumping me into all that Rapture stuff, which is not Biblical, and a good way to defeat that is to read Barbara Rossing's book, "The Rapture Explained." I believe in the already/not yet tension in the Kingdom reality meaning a partially realized eschatology. In other words, I am: environmentalist, Human Rights centered, believing in the redemption of all creation as an ongoing work.
How does that look? Supporting environmental groups, supporting programs to combat AIDS in sub-Saharan Africa, building wells in Third World countries, Supporting Africa and Mar Elias Universities (Mar Elias is a branch of U of Indianapolis for 9 more years before it may be fully, independently accreditted), building homes in Afghanistan through Habitat for Humanity, building homes in the South and in Appalachia, visiting the sick, home-bound and in prison, and lobbying against genocide and war.
You know this on-going struggle, which I have only maintained in this thread when you were present to respond, is like a scene from an old movie. In Excalibur, King Arthur is riding up to a bridge where Lancelot will let no one pass. I prefer the Monty Python edition of the story but this has the line we both can learn from:
Lancelot to Arthur as they are fighting, (please note I have changed a few words because in our present context they would be considered inflammatory and justly so)"Your anger has unbalanced you, You sir would fight to the death against a person who is not your enemy."
We are metaphorically at that cross-roads, on that bridge. Do we choose to stay in this vicious cycle and let self-righteous indignation win? Or do we choose to take another path, perhaps even the higher ground if you will, around our conflicted opinions of President Carter's actions? Can we see past the perceived slights that are in reality reactions rooted in our deeply held desire for a better world?
Let me allow you to begin defining that new world. And please note I didn't say "new World Order" another image that is not biblical.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim
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what is this "worry about who's here to respond" crap? i left a message..you got it.. LOL..
persecution complex again...
PS. don't have time to go hang out in other countries these days, i'm too busy raising a family and working on making our country better in my own way...
the internet is the best research tool ever created period...
unless of course, you think your mind is just a tool...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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Get a life Glass, no persecution complex, you need to take the amateur psy shingle down and read what I posted, as I extended you that courtesy.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim
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I did and found myself called how many names? Why? Because despite my effort to say we have come to as much of an agreement as possible and it's time to end it.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim
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See folks look, as a moderate, as a person with the priveledge to present here, I will present a voice that is not oft heard on this board. You are free to disagree. I will defend that right to express myself and your right to express yourself.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim
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quote:Originally posted by Griffon: See folks look, as a moderate, as a person with the priveledge to present here, I will present a voice that is not oft heard on this board. You are free to disagree. I will defend that right to express myself and your right to express yourself.
posted
I am, or rather already did. Define the sides and parameters of the debate (read my controvercial topics), help the opposing parties to express themselves fully, outline the areas of sharpest difference, allow the sides to express themselves through narrative. Draw new balance of understanding. I took the first step of the second to last phase. Read my above post offering us an alternative through a narrative. Do the same to express yourself. The next step from there will be to arrive at a new balance in the site.
I do appreciate greatly the quotations around that phrase. We both know there are no "peace experts" only peace-builders, peace-keepers, peace-practicioners and peace-destroyers.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim
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peace building is hard work... your topics title? show you to be one, or the other...
you say iam this but you behave like that...
that's what draws my fire...
that and posting certain other countries news
the amateur psychologist shingle? that doesn't "come down", we all have to be. just to survive...
you've got yourself a lot of booklearnin' there...
you like to talk about going to the mideast, but as you say? the Ayatolahs in Iran would cut your fool head off if you show up there, that's one way to find peace...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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Actually, Sunnyside, it's not big of me at all, it's the Democratic impulse our Founders shared with us. It's simple, there are few moderate and conservative voices here and I hear the pride in some posts at chasing them off. Why is that a good thing?
If we mightily disagree, does that mean we should negate each other's voice? Soren Kierkegaard, Christian Existentialist philosopher once said, "If you label me, you negate me." Have we not done enough of that? Labeling Bush as an idiot, labeling Democrats as racists? Did that not get your attention? We all got angry because the labels did not get at who we are. Those labels are caricatures of who we are. And so we lash out. Now observe what is going on throughout the Middle East right now. This is our argument magnified thousands of times over centuries of time.
That said, this has been a wonderful experiment in how conflict begins and I thank you for that.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim
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Griffon: Any response to this? I posted it last night...
quote:Originally posted by Griffon: I agree Gordon, though they did not have prior knowledge as some suppose.
And you know this... how?
It's well documented that the Bush administration did absolutely nothing to try to prevent a terrorist attack on our soil prior to 9/11.
I believe that they purposely let one happen. It sure helped their agenda.
It's even possible that they participated to some extent. You have to admit it was a pretty sophisticated maneuver; perfectly crashing two planes traveling at very high speeds into two relatively thin structures. And an amazing coincidence that both towers collapsed in an identical way. Almost like a controlled demolition, wouldn't you say?
Where were the fighter jets?
Why wasn't the president immediately taken into protective custody?
Etc. etc. etc.
This is one "conspiracy theory" that warrants more careful study.
-------------------- "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
posted
You find serious inconsistencies in Griff's posts? You are a walking inconsistincy. Posting all the quotes, links. sources you want does not change the fact that you are a closet democrat interested only in the dem version of any story, while all the while claiming you are/where a republican. Like me claiming I used to be 6'7 but I've shrunk to 5'8. Your game towards my brother is so transparent it's sickening. You are trying to bait him into losing his cool, by referencing orgies and caling him names to prove your no religious nut. Gee like he hasn't seen that before. The truth is Glassman you didn't like my brother from his first post because he wears his religion on his sleeve. And you want religious people over in the corner. gagged. I know being proud of who you are must be difficult for a democrat masquerading as a republican to understand. But not everyone feels the need to hide there true colors.It ain't about a persecution complex. It's about you and your pre conceived notions. You judged him and labelled him from his first post. Face it Glassman it,s not just Griff. You don,t like religious figures. Oh, that's republican religious figures. Funny how you as a repub point out how bad Robertson and Falwell are but fail to mention Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton in the same breath.
As for my brother telling me who to vote for Glassman I thought I already covered that with you. I'm a straight ticket repub. And I have been very honest about that from the minute I got over here. Now what part of that is hard to figure out. Boy was I wrong about you.
posted
"instead of ripping the dems (who are basically not in charge of ANYTHING?) we are ripping what we see as a current problem..."
I complain about a loyal opposition who offers no solutions. That's my complaint. They lost control because they offered nothing to effect change. See, it's convenient to label me a whiner, you have a label for anyone who doesn't agree with you.
My point if you actually go back to the beginning was that the Democratic leaders (I said Democrats which is a poor choice of words) offer no solutions. Do you remember when I posted Bishop Palmer's statement? His point was: it's easy to tears something down, but that's going the wrong dirction. We need to put something better in its place. Present case in Iraq. Should the US just leave right now as some Democratic leaders suggested? To do so, as other Democratic leaders have said, would cause massive suffering.
To simply say Bush is wrong or Bush is dumb, is not enough for the Democrats to sy, give us a vision of what the alternative would look, taste, feel and be like. That was the point of the whole thread.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim
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"Griffon: Any response to this? I posted it last night..."
Missed that because I was not up. Sorry bout that Gordon. I think it's a conspiracy theory much like the suggestion Clinton had Vince Foster killed. Political opportunism gone mad. I think it's taking an alleged lesson from WWII history and transfering it to the present. But that is my opinion. History will catch up with the truth.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim
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Sure ya do Glassman....... just keep the links and sources coming. That is what, I agree, you are good at. Yu can link and source like none other and that is something to take great pride in. Presenting the true you, well ya got a ways to go on that, But none of us are perfect.
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That's right, glassman. The media-opiated masses are getting used to being told what to think. Present them with opposing quotes, facts, or pictures and they scatter like roaches.
-------------------- "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
posted
Questioning the Government's roll in 9/11 is political opportunism gone mad?
No, a better description of 'political opportunism gone mad' would be allowing a terrorist attack to happen in order to set the climate for war.
quote:Originally posted by Griffon: "Griffon: Any response to this? I posted it last night..."
Missed that because I was not up. Sorry bout that Gordon. I think it's a conspiracy theory much like the suggestion Clinton had Vince Foster killed. Political opportunism gone mad. I think it's taking an alleged lesson from WWII history and transfering it to the present. But that is my opinion. History will catch up with the truth.
-------------------- "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
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