posted
lets talk more about how your sources say the Reagan team was dealing with Iran before they were even elected...
that's more interesting.. that shows people selling their own country for political power.
hmmm.... thought that might give you some problems...
see? i was a kid when Nixon got re-elected... my dad was very active in the GOP... until Nixon got smoked... it kinda changed things...
i heard rumors about how the Reagan people were not so "moral" but i always ignored 'em cuz i didn't WANT to believe it...your sources pretty much say Reagan's people were bad... lets talk about how many of the same people are in our govt today...
maybe you'd like to talk about the New American Century?...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by Johnwayne: Oh Sure your not a demeocrat Glassman. You've got stark raving republican written all over your posts. I have seen you do nothing but trash every republican you ever talked about. I know you voted for Bush Sr. Right. And I voted for Dukakis . What is it Bdgee said here last night, If it wks like a duck.....
akshully JW? i ain't lyin' i don't like being lied to...
i dundid my DD... and i found the things i SUSPECTED....
the GOP of today isn't the GOP of Eisenhower...
the "moral majority" is neither...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
your supposed "religiophobia" is really a fear in average America that their leaders aren't really telling them the truth about anything anymore...
these guys came into office trying to figure out how to invade iraq....
they figured out a way alright...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
I'm going to take a stab here Glassman You voted for Ford because you didn't like Carters religious views. You than switched back to Carter because you figured Reagan's religious views weren't much different, and because Reagan was an actor. You then voted for Mondale because of Reagan's religious views. You then voted for Dukakis because Bush was an extension of Reagan. You than had a real dilemma, Bush or Clinton, draft Dodger or religious right. I think you probably didn't vote in that one because I honestly don't see you voting for Clinton. Than you probably voted for Dole because you knew he wouldn't win, he didn't really say much about religion and because by now you believe every crack pot conspiracy theory out there about Clinton, including the "actual proof" that that Clinton was a drug smuggler.
Next you can't vote for Bush (religion) in 2000 and 204 (conspiracy theories plus religion) So two repubs in 30 years. If it walks like a duck..... you sure do a lot of wadling around here.
posted
Hey, if I wanted a whitewash, I wouldn't have posted that stuff. Reagan was bad on that one point. He did absolutely wrong. But so did Carter as the real, authentic documentation shows.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim
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quote:Originally posted by Griffon: Hey, if I wanted a whitewash, I wouldn't have posted that stuff. Reagan was bad on that one point. He did absolutely wrong. But so did Carter as the real, authentic documentation shows.
i don't care about carter...
except one thing? he was Navy ring knocker.. i went to school with a lot of them
i toldja... i care about what we are dealing with TODAY...clinton, carter? not the problem...
today's problems? hmmmm....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
But I have to ask you Glass, why it is more interesting what Reagan did wrong than what Carter did? Party preference? personal crusade? Both were products of their times, and made important decisions that affected our Middle East connections for decades. Both deserve our respect and close scrutiny.
Again I told you in correcting you that the connection began with Carter and ran through George I. Did I omit anyone in that timespan? I pointed out that we are complicit in Saddy's conduct throughout that time. Did that exclude anyone?
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim
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posted
There have been times that Glass... has posted things that met with disagreement or objection and caused him to check into more references or more historical records, which in turn, caused him to restate that thing so as to conform with credible evidence he has found contrary to his original post.
Most often, however, that doesn't happen because Glass... sincerely tries to be accurate in his post and does do the research to back them. Generally, further research almost always confirms his work is right.
Also, Glass.... is good about distinguishing between conclusions he has reached from research and conclusions he bases on preference and belief.
I trust him and I trust his research. I find disturbing any effort to discredit the work he does. I find disgusting that a person or persons would attempt to overwhelm his post with voluminous slanted and questionable sources.
Why does it seem necessary to me to point out that almost any newspaper (not only newspapers) will have columnist from directly opposing political camps and posting some claim or column one of them has published in that paper and attributing that view to the newspaper is simply a lie being told. Moreover, it IS NOT a legitimate reference for anything.
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posted
For that matter, you chose to bring up Jimmy Carter, not me. You drew the focus to him, not me. I merely want history to reflect the reality whomever is in office. I had very little to do with the fact concerning who was president when situations arose, much like President Carter was not responsible for the Iranian hostage situation as it developed. He was a person caught in a miserable moment in time, when he was being out-politicked by domestic and global opponents in a miserable, tragic situation. Noble person and idealist that he was and is, he has been remembered for things he could not do as president and his Peace Center is a major contribution to the world. And Reagan gave us the fall of Communism. I remember as I watched the Wall fall, his speech to Gorbachev, "Tear down this wall." Could Jimmy Carter have accomplished that? History will never know, but historians have offered alot of answers to that single question.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim
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No I am not, and neither are you, we disagree about the facts. We also disagree about the importance of history. Why do you cling to a matter that is documented by classified documents that have been released, from the era and from an interviewer of Fahd?
"Why does it seem necessary to me to point out that almost any newspaper (not only newspapers) will have columnist from directly opposing political camps and posting some claim or column one of them has published in that paper and attributing that view to the newspaper is simply a lie being told. Moreover, it IS NOT a legitimate reference for anything."
Then read the last Classified document marked Top Secret and ask if it says anything different from what I have asserted. It is fact! And it puts Carter in a good light.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim
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posted
For that matter, you chose to bring up Jimmy Carter, not me. WRONG; again; big shock... i basically posted a pic of rummy in iraq... i didn't bring up carter you did... go back and read ...
you quoted me right here:page3 of this topic.. "sadam was as much a product of his own culture as he was the Reagan crew..."
and then YOU responded with carter... The link goes from Carter to GB I actually.
you don't even know what you are saying...
i think i see the problem here... you guys think that i am a peacenik defending Carter...
i'm not...
i actually care about my COUNTRY MORE than any party...
i know that's a wierd concept to you since you've been roved... but that's the way it is...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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grow out of history, do they not? Is the Iran situation something that just developed? Did you not say we have been at war for a long time? Did you not post elsewhere about 1938? It seems to me that you're selective about who is allowed to refer to history. The situation in Iran today is directly related to our dealings with Iran in the 1970's right?
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim
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posted
My friend, you mentioned the situation starting with Reagan and Bush I, to which I commented it actually goes back to Carter and runs through GB I. Then you said something like Carter make me LOL. To which I gave documented proof. At the end of which you surrendered to the possibility that CArter may have communicated through an intermediary that gave Saddy the green light. In that documentation it also demonstrated that Carter did so because Reagan was dealing with the Mullahs. Now tell me, just how does that qualify as Rove-ified?
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim
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posted
Who's judging? Your quote, "You've been Rove-fied." Who's judging? Calling me a liar when presented with facts.
"i actually care about my COUNTRY MORE than any party..."
Then we are the same type of person. I care about this country enough to study its history seriously. Enough to present documentation that challenges leaders on both sides.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim
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posted
if you really care about your country? you'd be worried about the constituion right now... it is in jeapoardy, and if nobody keeps an eye on it? it'll be gone....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
"you've never run into any real good internet researchers like me before?"
I've seen your research, I need no patronizing, your research is just selective. Some is downright funny when you go to check it out. Mine is genuine because my research is not done on-line. It's done in life and in books.
Hope you have fun tonight and arrive back for debate safely.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: To leave now would just make way for all out war across the Middle East. Liberal Democrats are not advocating self-determination they are advocating getting our troops out. At this point pulling out would lead to massacre. Like I said, Bush and the Western powers should have bought him off into exile, but now to leave invites ethnic strife. Self-determination for the sake of Sunni, Shi'a and Kurd as well as Marsh Arabs needs to happen in a situation of greater stability.
you are correct about leaving too soon, i have said as much while critisizing Bush for getting US into this mess...
BUT?
the Shia and the Sunnis have a very different plan...
and they don't care one bit what you think....
sadam was as much a product of his own culture as he was the Reagan crew... you are an idealist...
the person who emerges to lead iraq, if iraq survves as a nation, is not going to be any better...
human nature...
here is where things "went off course" want to try a different tack?
that IS RUMSFELD isn't it?
you diverted the thread to Carter...
Carter told Faud to tell sadam he could do whatever he wanted to OUR ENEMY? GOOD!!!!
now? move on to these guys...
LOL
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by Griffon: "you've never run into any real good internet researchers like me before?"
I've seen your research, I need no patronizing, your research is just selective. Some is downright funny when you go to check it out. Mine is genuine because my research is not done on-line. It's done in life and in books.
Hope you have fun tonight and arrive back for debate safely.
you are the patronizing a-hole here b-52 or whatever, i just send it right back to you...
i have barely started shredding you...
i sugest you re-read at the picture of the Four Riders of the Apocolypse...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
Glass, I know we disagree, that is what fills libraries and makes class fun. If history were not subject to discussion and interpretation, then the victors would be the only voice we heard. The time has come for us to hear a more balanced view.
I do not dislike you personally for your perspective, I disagree with your conclusions. As an academic, I understand there is a place for discussion like this forum, and there is a place for research. The internet is not the place for research in specifics, as the Conspiracy Theory thread demonstrates. True research, academic research, is found in books, field reports and classrooms.
The difference between us is that I see these forums as a place to exchange ideas, to encourage vigorous discussion, to be provocative at times, and at the end of the day to be a fun diversion. I am not afraid to be proven wrong, but I can assure you internet research will rarely do that. It may give us reason to differ, but that's okay. We moderates are used to being called names from the left and the right.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim
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quote:Originally posted by Griffon: "Carter did not support the war... support in my book is funding... he may very well have whispered OK go ahead, but that is not support..."
So why does it hurt you so that he gave the okay? I notice you changed the rules there. You decided to define what support means. If it helps you accept the truth that Carter gave the okay, that's as close to agreeing as we're going to get. The quote I just posted is from the photo of the report and the green light was given. We both agree it was not material.
see? right there? you are trying to make out like i care about carter cuz you don't understand that carter means nothing to me.. i was pissed cuz you are posting links to IRANEWS... and calling them DD...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
"see? right there? you are trying to make out like i care about carter cuz you don't understand that carter means nothing to me.. i was pissed cuz you are posting links to IRANEWS... and calling them DD..."
Were they not born out in the Sec. of State's talking points? A classified document until later?
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim
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quote:Originally posted by Griffon: "see? right there? you are trying to make out like i care about carter cuz you don't understand that carter means nothing to me.. i was pissed cuz you are posting links to IRANEWS... and calling them DD..."
Were they not born out in the Sec. of State's talking points? A classified document until later?
"born out"? possibly...
you posted from unreliable sources pictures that are purported to be Haig's notes.
see? you just can't talk about YOUR BUSH president you just want to talk about carter and clinton...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
"in other words? you have no moral integrity in what you post.."
Not at all what I said, Glass get some air and calm down. Provocative is a term that in this case means "promotes discussion." I think you would have to agree I promote discussion. As to moral integrity, since none of us have reached perfection none of us have complete moral integrity. So you and I are in the same boat: we can have perfect love for God and neighbor. I don't care if you are a straight Democrat. That's fine, just note how it colors your perspective. Embrace apoliticism and take the blinders off
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim
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posted
Well, I haven't commented about Clinton here because he doesn't apply. When he does apply in threads I do. Obviously you voted for Carter as I did.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim
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