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Author Topic: all of this talk of socialism
glassman
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let's get something right in our minds.

IF we go into a Depression? we will become Socialist immediately.

every country we compete against is Socialist. There is no way we'll come out of a Depression with out having to "beat them at their own game".

IF you want to avoid Socialism? You are going to have to accept alot of bailouts. Allowing everything to come completely apart will not result in some "new" capitalist movement that will propel US back to our old status.

for those people that want to see the Dems and Obama fail? shame on you. You are putting party before Nation. It's like hoping Tom Brady will break his leg so your team can go to the superbowl. You still didn't have the best team, and you didn't get to see teh best game.

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a surfer
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You know it starts with every one of us...

The negativity on the streets is mind-boggling.

Help your family, friends and neighbors realize that this is not the end of the world but a chance for a new beginning.

I know I was harsh on Obama before the election and have posted some controversial topics but I stand behind him 100% to lead this country through the next 4 years.

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Propertymanager
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quote:
IF we go into a Depression? we will become Socialist immediately.
We are already on the fast track to socialism. I don't at all equate a depression to socialism. In fact, it the economy were to completely collapse, we might have to face the fact that socialism does not work. At some point, people will have to learn to stand on their own - instead of relying on government entitlements.

Our country is at a tipping point and could easily collapse. This is not Obama's problem, although he could certainly speed it up. This is the result of excess borrowing and spending by both parties for the past several decades.

It's time to pay the piper!

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glassman
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I don't at all equate a depression to socialism.

tell me how many people will go "on the dole" if we don't "bail out" the car co's?

you think somebody is going to buy the factories and start building new cars?

not gonna happen.

as for already being on the fast track? i agree, we are on track, but it's because we've outsourced all the work to third world countries.

instead of elevating the US? it's bringing US into the third world with "first world" tastes and no work ethic...

how much money has our country "invested" in COMMUNIST China?

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raybond
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Look at the auto makers whinners like all big capital is when there own policies bring them down.

Begging for government money aren't these people who used to quote ronnie boy

"I am from the government and I am here to help you." Ha,Ha,Ha. Meaning the most scary words in the English language. They sure aren't acting like they are scared of the government now.

Could you picture these men having the courage to stand on there own two republican feet and do something for the country like there UAW employess's have done. Dose there board meetings start by giving respect to the flag like UAW meetings do. Did they care about there country when they invested all over the globe and drained there country of jobs and ruined there own domestic markets so the U.S. market does not exist at the moment?

IMHO they have got a lot of gall to ask for our money.

One of the best things that could happen to the manufacturers dealer network is that most of it could go under it could use a good housecleaning anyway

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Propertymanager
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quote:
instead of elevating the US? it's bringing US into the third world with "first world" tastes and no work ethic...
WELL SAID! I agree with that 100%. We certainly won't get the work ethic back with socialism. Socialism provides no incentive to work or innovate, which is the main reason that it always fails.
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raybond
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US holds lead in worker productivity
published: Tuesday | September 4, 2007

American workers stay longer in the office, at the factory or on the farm than their counterparts in Europe and most other rich nations, and they produce more per person over the year.

They also get more done per hour than everyone but the Norwegians, according to an International Labour Organisation (ILO) report released Monday, which said the United States "leads the world in labour productivity".

Each U.S. worker produces US$63,885 (€46,867) of wealth per year, more than his or her counterpart in all other countries, the ILO said in its report.

Ireland comes in second at US$55,986 (€41,073), ahead of Luxembourg, US$55,641 (€40,819); Belgium, US$55,235 (€40,522); and France, US$54,609 (€40,062).

The productivity figure is found by dividing the country's gross domestic product by the number of people employed. The U.N. report is based on 2006 figures for many countries, or the most recent available.

Productivity was up in the Latin American and Caribbean region, with each worker contributing wealth of US$18,908, or 2.9 per cent more than they did in 2005.

The region, however, fell below the world average of US$19,834.

Only part of the U.S. productivity growth, which has outpaced that of many other developed economies, can be explained by the longer hours Americans are putting in, the ILO said.

Productivity

The U.S., according to the report, also beat all 27 nations in the European Union, Japan and Switzerland in the amount of wealth created per hour of work - a second key measure of productivity.

Norway, which is not an EU member, generates the most output per working hour, US$37.99 (€27.87), a figure inflated by the country's billions of dollars (euros) in oil exports and high prices for goods at home.

The U.S. is second at US$35.63 (€26.14), about a half-dollar ahead of third-place France.

Seven years ago, French workers produced over a dollar more on average than their American counterparts. The country led the U.S. in hourly productivity from 1994 to 2003.

The U.S. employee put in an average 1,804 hours of work in 2006, the report said. That compared with 1,407.1 hours for the Norwegian worker, and 1,564.4 for the French.

It pales, however, in comparison with the annual hours worked per person in Asia, where seven economies - South Korea, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Hong Kong, China, Malaysia and Thailand - surpassed 2,200 average hours per worker. But those countries had lower productivity rates.

Competition

America's increased productivity "has to do with the ICT (information and communication technologies) revolution, with the way the U.S. organises companies, with the high level of competition in the country, with the extension of trade and investment abroad," said Jose Manuel Salazar, the ILO's head of employment.

The ILO report warned that the widening of the gap between leaders such as the U.S. and poorer nations has been even more dramatic.

Labourers from regions such as south-east Asia, Latin America and the Middle East have the potential to create more wealth, but are being held back by a lack of investment in training, equipment and technology, the agency said.

In sub-Saharan Africa, workers are only about a twelfth as productive as those in developed countries, the report said.

"The huge gap in productivity and wealth is cause for great concern," ILO Director-General Juan Somavia said, adding that it was important to raise productivity levels of the lowest-paid workers inthe world's poorest countries.

China and other East Asian countries are catching up quickest with Western countries. Productivity in the region has doubled in the past decade and is accelerating faster than anywhere else, the report said.

Long way to go

But they still have a long way to go: workers in East Asia are still only about a fifth as productive as labourers in industrialised countries.

The vast differences among China's sectors tell part of the story. Whereas a Chinese industrial worker produces US$12,642 (€9,289) worth of output - almost eight times more than in 1980 - a labourer in the farm and fisheries sector contributes a paltry US$910 (€669) to gross domestic product.

The difference is much less pronounced in the United States, where a manufacturing employee produced an unprecedented US$104,606 (€76,860) of value in 2005. An American farm labourer, meanwhile, created US$52,585 (€38,637) worth of output, down 10 per cent from seven years ago, when U.S. agricultural productivity peaked.

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by Propertymanager:
quote:
instead of elevating the US? it's bringing US into the third world with "first world" tastes and no work ethic...
WELL SAID! I agree with that 100%. We certainly won't get the work ethic back with socialism. Socialism provides no incentive to work or innovate, which is the main reason that it always fails.
that's kindof funny coming from you to me PM. i'm an artist and my wife is a research scientist.

i still return back to my main point which is this.

if our kid has a bad earache? we don't blame the genetic material and let them suffer until they get better or go deaf or even worse.

we take 'em tot he expert and get help.

plain and simple. all this "tough love" conservatism is just so much bluster.

i wish we weren't in this mess. i didn't do it. but i can't sell the goods i DO make with my own hands to people that don't have jobs.

you might think you are sitting in a good position as a landlord since, as you claim, you don't care about the property values, but you should realise by now that if you have no interest in your property values increasing? you are nothing more than a glamorised maintenance engineer.

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glassman
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interesting:


Each U.S. worker produces US$63,885 (€46,867) of wealth per year, more than his or her counterpart in all other countries, the ILO said in its report.


yet the median household income is 46,000$/yr and the saving rate is negative..

anybody know why the disparity?

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Highwaychild
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Spread the wealth around!

Being middle class used the be a GOOD thing, but now we're in dire straits all the sudden?

Now there's a war on us, when did all this happen?

How rich do people have to be?

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Propertymanager
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quote:
you might think you are sitting in a good position as a landlord since, as you claim, you don't care about the property values, but you should realise by now that if you have no interest in your property values increasing? you are nothing more than a glamorised maintenance engineer.
Glass, no, the property value has very little to do with the rental property business. I don't buy a rental because I am hoping that it will increase in value in the future so that I can cash out. I buy a rental property because it is an asset that generates money. In my view, a rental property isn't any different than buying stock in a company, except I have much more direct control of a rental than I could ever have with a stock. The current property value has nothing to do with the cash it generates.

At any rate, I am not immune from a recession or depression. I've been expecting and am beginning to see people having increasing difficulty paying the rent. This will only get worse as the economy tanks. However, the biggest risk to my business is the government. If the economy gets really bad, the socialists in the government could pass a moratorium on evictions or some type of rent control. If that happened, I could easily be put out of business in a very short period of time.

I'm not looking forward to a collapse of the economy and I won't be immune from its effects. However, this country is broke and has promised everything to everyone. I don't know how that can be changed without an economic catastrophe, which is exactly where I believe that we are headed.

In 1781, when our government wrecklessly printed money as they are doing today, the price of a pair of shoes got to $5,000 per pair in Virginia. Can we be far behind? This is going to get a LOT worse over the next few years and probably in the immediate future.

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glassman
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In 1781, when our government wrecklessly printed money as they are doing today, the price of a pair of shoes got to $5,000 per pair in Virginia.



considering how the constituion wasn't even ratified until 1787? shoes could not cost 5000$ US before there were US$

the (mis)use of [Wink] continental dollars led to a gold standard, which we never should have left IMO..

If the economy gets really bad, the socialists in the government could pass a moratorium on evictions or some type of rent control. If that happened, I could easily be put out of business in a very short period of time.

what would the "anti-socialists" do?

put up tent cities so people can live there at tax payers expense?
i've seen that before, in the third world...


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Machiavelli
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quote:
Originally posted by Propertymanager:
quote:
instead of elevating the US? it's bringing US into the third world with "first world" tastes and no work ethic...
WELL SAID! I agree with that 100%. We certainly won't get the work ethic back with socialism. Socialism provides no incentive to work or innovate, which is the main reason that it always fails.
No incentive to work? What you forget is what we are doing is not "pure" socialism... we all get paid money and still spend money... what we are doing is not a classless and moneyless society... our Gov't will not be a one party Gov't.... we will still vote for our representatives every 4 years or whatever years... our Gov't is doing 1 of 2 things... either they are being the bank much like a bank such as Bank of America let's a business , whether big or small, borrow money to keep running and keeping people employed which in the end keeps our economy afloat when they spend their paychecks on goods and services... the 2nd thing they are doing is giving big Corporations money in return for a stake in the Business... not a "full" stake... but a shareholder much like any of us buy stock in a company in return for money...

We are not turning into a one party classless society that has big business being totally state owned... the state/Gov't are part owners in some and lenders for others with money having to be paid back...

the problem with our society, and pure Capitalism in general, is that it's always about me me me me instead of our for our society as a whole for the benefit of all of us... nor does pure Socialism work because then the state becomes the me me me me part... the only thing that will work is a combination of the two such as in France and other similar countries... The so called "socialists" of France and the "conservative/capitalists" in that country coexist without all this paranoia about each other...

What you have to realize is our society has to work as a team and not as for every person out for themselves... because if not then what is happening now will collapse our society or will repeat itself in the future if we ever happen to come out of our situation we are in right now...

Think of it this way... in the NFL how do teams win? As a Team and Teamwork or as a individual and putting your ego before the good of the team? ...

Would the Cowboys, for example, win a game if only TO and Romo did all the plays individually or if they all worked as a team to get that touchdown? ...

American society I'm sorry to say is a selfish society and that is why we fail when it begins to break apart... we all say were "patriotic" and "proud to be an American" when times are good but when things go bad we all fight each other and then all of a sudden its all about me me me me instead of pulling together and working together... that is not pure Socialism... that is teamwork... that is the "incentive" in a so called "socialist" scenario that you are using loosely... that is how we get out of such messes like in the Great Depression...

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Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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T e x
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In my view, a rental property isn't any different than buying stock in a company, except I have much more direct control of a rental than I could ever have with a stock.

Holy moly...

Ignoring the diction and even the syntax (which is telling), I must say...peeps in a rental property definitely should make the rent. But to equate people in their individual homes to corporations/stock is a great leap...and kinda weird.

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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glassman
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buying on margin too....

hmmmm.......

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raybond
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And the use of section 8 funds comparing it to cash flow and rental income to dividends

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Machiavelli
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
buying on margin too....

hmmmm.......

OPM... don't the rich always advocate that?

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Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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Propertymanager
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quote:
the (mis)use of continental dollars led to a gold standard, which we never should have left IMO..
I agree!

quote:
We are not turning into a one party classless society that has big business being totally state owned... the state/Gov't are part owners in some and lenders for others with money having to be paid back...
You really didn't think that socialism would happen all at once - did you?

quote:
But to equate people in their individual homes to corporations/stock is a great leap...and kinda weird.
It's a BUSINESS! The rental property is an income generating asset - nothing more, nothing less. The tenants are customers - nothing more, nothing less. I don't have an emotional attachment to my property or my tenants.

quote:
And the use of section 8 funds comparing it to cash flow and rental income to dividends
Cash flow is rents - expenses - debt. Section 8 is nothing more than rents that are paid by YOU. Rental income is just more gross income, whether paid by the tenant or by you.

quote:
buying on margin too....

hmmmm.......OPM... don't the rich always advocate that?

That's the way to make money.
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glassman
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using OPM is socialism too... by your loose definition

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Propertymanager
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quote:
using OPM is socialism too... by your loose definition
Using OPM is absolutely capitalistic. The lender is providing a service and making money from that service. Once again, the problem with the lending industry is government involvement, starting with the Federal Reserve.
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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by Propertymanager:
quote:
using OPM is socialism too... by your loose definition
Using OPM is absolutely capitalistic. The lender is providing a service and making money from that service. Once again, the problem with the lending industry is government involvement, starting with the Federal Reserve.
i agree that the FED is most of the problem, but they are not socialists in any stretch of the word.

i started this thread to explore what socialism really means.

if you want to blame somebody for our current economic problems?
you have to look at the most basic reason for our problem.

it is very simple. we as a nation produce more per person than any other.

BUT?
we (as a nation) spend even more than we produce.

this has been going on for too long.

the govt gave away several tax rebates ove rht last five years, they had to do that to compensate for stagnation in wages.

people were buying bigger better houses and cars because they WRONGLY believed they were going to get more pay as a result of their better performance. fact is pay went down while prices went up. why did pay go down? increased compettition?

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glassman
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the govt gave away several tax rebates over the last five years, they had to do that to compensate for stagnation in wages.


i've been in third world countries.

i've spent time with the wealthy and the poor there.

what makes a third world country a third world country?

unequal distribution of wealth.

having a few wealthy people that work hard to maintain their socio-economic status remain exactly the same is what makes those countries third world.

the people with wealth there work actively to keep their poor in the same state. it's the easiest way to remain wealthy.

even Mexico does this. that's why so many Mexicans come here to work.

the notion that the US middle class makes too much money is just crazy.

sure the middle class has borrowed too much here, but they have watched the wealthy do it even more.

it is not socialism to "envision" a strong middle class that has money to spend.

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Peaser
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if our kid has a bad earache? we don't blame the genetic material and let them suffer until they get better or go deaf or even worse.

The earache isn't your kids fault...

Comparing people to pinecones...

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Buy Low. Sell High.

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Machiavelli
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
the govt gave away several tax rebates over the last five years, they had to do that to compensate for stagnation in wages.


i've been in third world countries.

i've spent time with the wealthy and the poor there.

what makes a third world country a third world country?

unequal distribution of wealth.

having a few wealthy people that work hard to maintain their socio-economic status remain exactly the same is what makes those countries third world.

the people with wealth there work actively to keep their poor in the same state. it's the easiest way to remain wealthy.

even Mexico does this. that's why so many Mexicans come here to work.

the notion that the US middle class makes too much money is just crazy.

sure the middle class has borrowed too much here, but they have watched the wealthy do it even more.

it is not socialism to "envision" a strong middle class that has money to spend.

Whatever you say about Socialism falls on deaf ears Glass because of people's fears and paranoia about it... they fear the unknown...

what we are seeing now about these fears is NeoMcCarthyism... especially from the GOP who wants to strike fear and hatred for the Dems...

You are correct that the rich in Latin America prefer to keep the poor in poverty so that they may remain rich... I have seen it myself in Nicaragua when I visited there a few years back... I will be going to Nicaragua in December to see it again myself to visit my brother who is one of the poor of that country... there is a big divide of rich and poor in Nicaragua... there is no middle class.. about 2/3rd's of Nicaragua's population lives in poverty... also if you read Che Guevara's book The Motorcycle Diaries - Notes on a Latin American Journey, you'll see the divide from poverty and rich through his eyes before he became a Marxist radical... it was when he was a young medical student traveling through Latin American countries and it is what changed his political views about the world... if you prefer not to read it then watch the movie of the same title... But anyways the rich of those 3rd World Countries should embrace making the poor into middle class because these people would in turn spread the wealth up the ladder by buying goods and services... which in turn would make these 3rd world countries economic powers along the lines of U.S., Germany, Japan etc..

anyways Glass,people on this board and this country do not care about these 3rd world countries because Americans are self centered and selfish... it is what makes us be disliked by the rest of the world... Americans think that if we ignore poverty problems of the world it will go away and not affect us but in reality is that it does affect us directly or indirectly... I said it before and I'll say it again... we need to pressure 3rd world Gov't's to try to solve their poverty problems and not keep it the way it is with just rich and poor... by pressuring them to do so, it would create a middle class in those countries and drastically eliminate illegal immigration to our own country by wages increasing... and if that is not motivation enough then you use what is clear and dear to the American heart: Greed. Solving poverty in other countries and creating middle classes in those countries would create new customers for American goods and services which in turn would enrich the American economy.

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Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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Propertymanager
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quote:
anyways Glass,people on this board and this country do not care about these 3rd world countries because Americans are self centered and selfish... it is what makes us be disliked by the rest of the world...
That is factually incorrect and a blatant lie being spread by the left. Americans are the most generous people on the planet and put their money where their mouthes are (except leftists like Biden who are all for giving provided he doesn't have to do it). Here's a quote and link to an article about giving:

"...Americans give twice as much as the next most charitable country, according to a November 2006 comparison done by the Charities Aid Foundation. In philanthropic giving as a percentage of gross domestic product, the U.S. ranked first at 1.7 percent. No. 2 Britain gave 0.73 percent, while France, with a 0.14 percent rate, trailed such countries as South Africa, Singapore, Turkey and Germany."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19409188/

And you'll note that this article was on the most socialist "news" outlet in the country!

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glassman
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we need to pressure 3rd world Gov't's to try to solve their poverty problems and not keep it the way it is with just rich and poor...

the way to do that is to create real schools there and teach the kids to read and write.

give them more OPPORTUNITIES to earn leisure activities and time.

that's what makes the American middle class work.

it's not the acumulation of wealth that drives the majority of people to work. it's the possibility of owning season tix to the NFL or going Nascar or MLB... (to name a few)

the wealthy that become wealthy on their own have a special drive that few others do.

what "free traders" don't tell people while they stand up and spout off about how free trade is so good is that it will cause major rifts and discrepancies in the "traditional" flow of cash while major portions of the world are brought up above poverty status.

what American goods and service are we selling overseas? financial services? d'oh..

ag products? ag products from the US are not only heavily subsidized by US taxpayers and then sold overseas, but i also see other countries not allowing them in while we import cars from them (for instance)

we have TV and Movies to sell.. they don't create that many jobs tho...
and other countires will want their own programming once they are able to produce it..

i am all for creating a worldwide middle class, but i am not convinced that that the uber-rich are interested in a world wide middle class as much as i that they are busy creating a larger group of working poor.

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Lockman
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quote:
Originally posted by Machiavelli:
quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
the govt gave away several tax rebates over the last five years, they had to do that to compensate for stagnation in wages.


i've been in third world countries.

i've spent time with the wealthy and the poor there.

what makes a third world country a third world country?

unequal distribution of wealth.

having a few wealthy people that work hard to maintain their socio-economic status remain exactly the same is what makes those countries third world.

the people with wealth there work actively to keep their poor in the same state. it's the easiest way to remain wealthy.

even Mexico does this. that's why so many Mexicans come here to work.

the notion that the US middle class makes too much money is just crazy.

sure the middle class has borrowed too much here, but they have watched the wealthy do it even more.

it is not socialism to "envision" a strong middle class that has money to spend.

Whatever you say about Socialism falls on deaf ears Glass because of people's fears and paranoia about it... they fear the unknown...

what we are seeing now about these fears is NeoMcCarthyism... especially from the GOP who wants to strike fear and hatred for the Dems...

You are correct that the rich in Latin America prefer to keep the poor in poverty so that they may remain rich... I have seen it myself in Nicaragua when I visited there a few years back... I will be going to Nicaragua in December to see it again myself to visit my brother who is one of the poor of that country... there is a big divide of rich and poor in Nicaragua... there is no middle class.. about 2/3rd's of Nicaragua's population lives in poverty... also if you read Che Guevara's book The Motorcycle Diaries - Notes on a Latin American Journey, you'll see the divide from poverty and rich through his eyes before he became a Marxist radical... it was when he was a young medical student traveling through Latin American countries and it is what changed his political views about the world... if you prefer not to read it then watch the movie of the same title... But anyways the rich of those 3rd World Countries should embrace making the poor into middle class because these people would in turn spread the wealth up the ladder by buying goods and services... which in turn would make these 3rd world countries economic powers along the lines of U.S., Germany, Japan etc..

anyways Glass,people on this board and this country do not care about these 3rd world countries because Americans are self centered and selfish... it is what makes us be disliked by the rest of the world... Americans think that if we ignore poverty problems of the world it will go away and not affect us but in reality is that it does affect us directly or indirectly... I said it before and I'll say it again... we need to pressure 3rd world Gov't's to try to solve their poverty problems and not keep it the way it is with just rich and poor... by pressuring them to do so, it would create a middle class in those countries and drastically eliminate illegal immigration to our own country by wages increasing... and if that is not motivation enough then you use what is clear and dear to the American heart: Greed. Solving poverty in other countries and creating middle classes in those countries would create new customers for American goods and services which in turn would enrich the American economy.

Why is your brother living in poverty? Couldn't you help him or are you one of those selfish americans you refur to?

--------------------
Let's Go METS!!!

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Propertymanager
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quote:
Why is your brother living in poverty? Couldn't you help him or are you one of those selfish americans you refur to?
Because he wants YOU to help him. It takes a village to help a brother. SHARE THE WEALTH! It's patriotic to pay more taxes Lockman!
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jordanreed
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stop being an azz!

--------------------
jordan

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by jordanreed:
stop being an azz!

he can't help it. he doesn't have anybody else left to abuse

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Propertymanager
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Gosh, I'm sorry guys. As it turns out, the lefties are BIG givers. Just look at the numbers for our new vice-president:

Adjusted
Gross Income Charity

1998 $215,432 $195

1999 $210,797 $120

2000 $219,953 $360

2001 $220,712 $360

2002 $227,811 $260

2003 $231,375 $260

2004 $234,271 $380

2005 $321,379 $380

2006 $248,459 $380

2007 $319,853 $995

Total $2,450,042 $3,690

Yes, that's right, out of a total income of $2,450,042, Biden gave $3,690!!! That's a whopping one tenth of one percent!!! A lot of us mean conservatives give over 100 times more than that!

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jordanreed
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But you're still an azz!

--------------------
jordan

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glassman
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That's a whopping one tenth of one percent!!! A lot of us mean conservatives give over 100 times more than that!

you have no clue what giving means. it's obvious in everything you post.

the election is over, go lick your wounds in private, it's really disgusting to hear your pitiful bleating

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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wallymac
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quote:
Originally posted by Propertymanager:
Gosh, I'm sorry guys. As it turns out, the lefties are BIG givers. Just look at the numbers for our new vice-president:

Adjusted
Gross Income Charity

1998 $215,432 $195

1999 $210,797 $120

2000 $219,953 $360

2001 $220,712 $360

2002 $227,811 $260

2003 $231,375 $260

2004 $234,271 $380

2005 $321,379 $380

2006 $248,459 $380

2007 $319,853 $995

Total $2,450,042 $3,690

Yes, that's right, out of a total income of $2,450,042, Biden gave $3,690!!! That's a whopping one tenth of one percent!!! A lot of us mean conservatives give over 100 times more than that!

You left this part out.

"A spokesman for Biden, David Wade, tells York that says "the figures on Biden’s tax return do not reflect the true extent of his giving."

Wade: “The charitable contributions claimed by the Bidens on their tax returns are not the sum of their annual contributions to charity,” Wade said in a statement to NRO. “Like most regular churchgoers, they contribute to their church, and they also contribute to their favorite causes with their time as well as their checkbooks, whether it’s [Jill] Biden’s volunteer work with military families or the Biden breast-health initiative, or the way in which the family pitched in driving supplies to the Gulf Coast after Hurricane Katrina, or the ways Sen. Biden has supported charities that help women, police, and veterans.”

More from Wade: “Like a lot of families that put three kids through college and have an aging parent move in with them, the Bidens aren’t divorced from the realities of everyday life,” Wade says. Still, Wade continues, “finding ways to give back is important to them.”


http://hotline****.nationaljournal.com/archives/2008/09/bidens_charitab.html

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bdgee
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PM constantly preaches free market uber alles, claiming he wants it because it gives freedom. But when you look into his nonsense, the freedom he wishes for is only the freedom to be totally irresponsible.

His is a philosophy of pure selfishness and ego. He is too arrogant to learn even enough to reach out of blind ignorance and recognize the fact of that ignorance and accept that neither capitalism nor conservatism is directed or even suggested for the Nation within the Constitution and therefore, his incessant hammering for strict adherence to what he thinks are principles of the free market, capitalism, and conservatism, is NOT, as he seems to believe, some sort of patriotic duty of Americans.

There are both good and bad elements in all economic systems, including those that are socialistic and those that are capitalistic. It is the failures of the leaders of a Nation that causes whatever economic system it recognizes to fail the people, not the particular economic type. PM needs to recognize that the free market he worships so religiously has failed the United States of America, not because it is all bad, but because it is not all good. And reinventing the United States of America, so that its government cannot restrict the free market would only begin a wait for its next economic failure. The free market cannot guarantee economic stability. Indeed, it guarantees periodic financial collapse.


Any Nation's most fundamental duty is the general welfare of its people, not the protection of its well to do, their fortunes, or some arbitrary financial idealized system.

(Jordan is right, we have an azzhole about.)

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