quote:Originally posted by T e x: re: the 25 or even 10--I was referring to rank n' file membership. Their up-top moggedy-mogs no doubt realize that the subprime mortgages in and of themselves are not the problem.
My larger point remains: all this discussion of unions is meaningless if the point is to discuss the possibility of socialism somehow springing forth from this credit crisis.
quote:Originally posted by T e x: re: the 25 or even 10--I was referring to rank n' file membership. Their up-top moggedy-mogs no doubt realize that the subprime mortgages in and of themselves are not the problem.
My larger point remains: all this discussion of unions is meaningless if the point is to discuss the possibility of socialism somehow springing forth from this credit crisis.
But that's not what you said!
You said, "I'd be real surprised if there's 25--or even 10--[b]union members[b] in the U.S. who understand the problem well enough to articulate reasonable solutions."
Union leaders ARE union members.
However, I WAS speaking of rank and file members when I said "High school physics courses are a common item on the resume of union members in this day and time. So are classes in civics and history".
Was there supposed to be in the the apparently intended implication that those "up-top moggedy-mogs" of the unions are not qualified or interested enough in the current situation to understand the problem of "the subprime mortgages" and the results of that problem brings to our economy? There certianly is that conclusion. Those "up-top moggedy-mogs" of the unions ARE rank and file members., That's where they come from. And it is not at all abnormal for such to be quite well qualified in economic theories and more than capable of participating in discussion and consideration of such subject matter.
However, if it is assumed that "the point is to discuss the possibility of socialism somehow springing forth from this credit crisis" and nothing more, then I would say you are right in concluding that, "all this discussion of unions is meaningless".
BUT, I wasn't so restricting my considerations. My considerations were pointed at the obvious use of irresponsible fear tactics and untrue assertions from the far right-wing anti-union political extreme in using this crises as a political weapon in an attack designed to provide no relief or repair to the damages of the financial facilities of the Nation, but instead, to further a religion like political campaign to destroy unions, with no intent to ever provide any suitable jobs for the workers whose lives will be destroyed, nor any jobs for anyone anywhere, nor any other relief of the problems stemming from the subprime mortgage mess, should their right-wing political attack succeed or fail.
What we need are attempts at solutions of the problem, NOT attempts to use the problem to swing the Nation to an attack on one part of what the Constitution describes as "the people".
In order to have much hope of successfully fending off destruction of the Nation, we need the ability to make use of the strengths and ideas (and ideals) of all of us, not just the ones left standing after their political equivalent of racial cleansing is done.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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It's also futile to ask "the union" for its thoughts on how to get out of this mess: I'd be real surprised if there's 25--or even 10--union members in the U.S. who understand the problem well enough to articulate reasonable solutions.
That may be, but I think they can recognize that their jobs are going to disappear if they don't work with the company to trim the fat.
Government jobs are the next to suffer, maybe not on the federal level but at state and local levels the economies just can't support the deals made with union workers.
Well Lockman...I have been a union member for over 30 years so I guess that I am qualified as an EXPERT on unions. I can tell you that all of your "beliefs" about unions , their leadership, and their membership is blatantly UNTRUE...
You want the unions to work with the "company" to trim the fat eh...
Well in 2007 the UAW negotiated a NEW pay scale for union workers...and we agreed to a FIFTY PERCENT reduction in pay for new hires, zero pension benefits, and the UAW now manages and funds health care...I would say that would be considered working with the company to trim the fat....when in reality the unions nor their wages ARE THE FAT...
If you are a blue collar worker, union or not, your pay cut will be coming very soon, and you can thank whoever (elitist republicans)that have been feeding you these lines of sh!t about the evil unions, for YOUR reduction in pay and benefits...
Oh and BTW...I vote for whoever the phuck I want to vote for...
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It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
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quote:Originally posted by osubucks30: I thought this country was built with hard working people!!! Capitalism is DEAD!!!
people here were, are and will be hard workers... they just want good pay with safe conditions.. hence the existence of Unions... lest not forget about the past and how workers were poorly treated in American History especially during the Industrial age... China is now where we were back then in terms of Labor conditions...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:If you are a blue collar worker, union or not, your pay cut will be coming very soon, and you can thank whoever (elitist republicans)that have been feeding you these lines of sh!t about the evil unions, for YOUR reduction in pay and benefits...
Retired is right about one thing - pay cuts are on the way. However, the unions and companies that allowed those ridiculous pay scales are to blame. In a global economy, workers will either compete or be out of a job.
Posts: 1577 | From: Ohio | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
In a global economy, workers will either compete or be out of a job.
and when competing means living on 300$/week?
how come all the "free market" people can't calculate the simple math on that....
in 2006? the avg yearly income in china was 2025$, if it went up it's going down now..
so tell me oh "free market" genius? how many Americans can live on that?
my dog can't.
urabn workers in China averaged 25,000 yuan last year... that's 3,662 US$ for CITYfolk in China...
BTW? that includes white collar workers too..
better start figuring out how to get more people into your rentals and charge by the room.
the highest average salary of employees in Beijing's securities companies exceeded one million yuan (142,450 U.S. dollars) while the lowest was less than 40,000 yuan (5,698 U.S. dollars).
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: In a global economy, workers will either compete or be out of a job.
and when competing means living on 300$/week?
how come all the "free market" people can't calculate the simple math on that....
in 2006? the avg yearly income in china was 2025$, if it went up it's going down now..
so tell me oh "free market" genius? how many Americans can live on that?
my dog can't.
urabn workers in China averaged 25,000 yuan last year... that's 3,662 US$ for CITYfolk in China...
BTW? that includes white collar workers too..
better start figuring out how to get more people into your rentals and charge by the room.
the highest average salary of employees in Beijing's securities companies exceeded one million yuan (142,450 U.S. dollars) while the lowest was less than 40,000 yuan (5,698 U.S. dollars).
I understand what you are saying Glass but what is the standard or cost of living in China compared to us? ... Perhaps what they make is good for where they live... so those numbers are not comparable...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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Perhaps what they make is good for where they live... so those numbers are not comparable...
they are comparable when you consider that the exchange rate of the currencies is NOT "free-market"...
i've been beating this drum for years, and everybody is hypnotised by the idea of cheap cargo...
i've been telling people right her since i began posting that we would end up right where we are are and worse if we continued to allow the Government of China to manipulate the value of their currency...
it's been good for Wal-Mart and now it seem you can buy anything from China, and the quality is much better too...
but the only way we are going to avoid a serious depression in the US is if the Yuan is revalued to EQUAL (1 for 1) the dollar and soon.
the Govt of China is not Free-Market and has no intention of participating in a free market. they subsidise all energy over there. I can't melt a pound of glass for what they sell and ship finished products for.
and no i am not competing with them. the point is that anybody who is competing with them can't as long as their currency is not free-floating...
i don't buy anything Chinese unless i have no choice. and it's got nothing to do with racism or xenophobia. it's becuase i don't wan to live in a third world country.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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i don't buy anything Chinese unless i have no choice. and it's got nothing to do with racism or xenophobia. it's becuase i don't wan to live in a third world country.
I'm with you Glass...if I can buy American...I do
otherwise it's like biting the hand that feeds ya...
people in this country had better wake up real soon and start supporting their own kind, or it WILL come back and bite em in the azz sooner or later...
oh wait, it already has!
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It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
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quote:In a global economy, workers will either compete or be out of a job.
and when competing means living on 300$/week?
how come all the "free market" people can't calculate the simple math on that....
in 2006? the avg yearly income in china was 2025$, if it went up it's going down now..
so tell me oh "free market" genius? how many Americans can live on that?
I agree with you Glass. So, what is the answer? How do we get the genie back in the bottle?
If US workers (especially union workers) continue to receive pay that is non-competitive, the companies will go bankrupt. On the other hand, if we did away with foreign imports (or charged a high tariff on them), our standard of living would decrease also. Just look at what Walmart has done for the standard of living in this country. You can buy a pair of jeans at Walmart for $8! How much more would they cost if produced in the US? That is true of thousands of products that they offer.
Posts: 1577 | From: Ohio | Registered: Oct 2007
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second off? tariffs are not a problem if they are executed properly.
you think WalMart has made your life better?
you are only looking at half the equation. what's in your pocket when you leave the store.
how about we charge an import tax based on the value of the exchange rate of the currency.
Wal-Mart’s Chinese Purchases Hold at $9 billion
Though the cost of Chinese goods have increased as a result of the yuan’s rise against the U.S. dollar, U.S. mega-retailer Wal-Mart said its purchases of Chinese-made shoes, toys, and other goods would hold steady this year at $9 billion. The AP report, hosted at CNNMoney.com, also says the retailer is expanding its operations within China - it opened 30 stores last year, bringing its mainland total to 102.
Wal-Mart’s president for China, Ed Chan, declined to give sales forecasts or the number of new stores that will open in 2008. But they said China sales were growing faster than the 18% rate for the rest of Wal-Mart’s non-U.S. operations.
Wal-Mart officials say they are maintaining good relations with the Chinese government,
despite the company’s efforts to quell unionizing efforts by the government-sanctioned All-China Federation of Trade Unions in 2006.
Chinese workers are going to UNIONIZE WalMart when America couldn't, watch and learn.
My bet is that China will try to take over WalMart in the next decade...
say you can force the Yuan to equal th edollar? (a nightmare for the Chinese govt) if a chinese worker is making 25,000 Yuan? that's still half the US$ median household income of 46,000$.
so? we enforce across the board import tariffs on all Chinese products that revalue the Yuan to the dollar.
the current exchange rate is .14 cents to the Yuan. that's a HUGE tax right? if we charged 100% import tax? who would lose? the IMPORTER would.
i'm not going to spend a year trying to come up with an average profit margin for the importers of Chinese goods, but that's where most of th eprofit from Chinese trade goes:
March 2008 Why Profit Zero Works in China by Paul Midler
Profit zero scenarios are a product of Chinese business history. Back when state-owned factories acted in place of a social welfare program, manufacturing’s primary goal was not profitability, but job creation. Throughout the 1980s and into the 1990s, when the planned economy failed to stimulate enough job growth to approach full employment, the Communist Party looked to private industry, and entrepreneurs who could put people to work garnered a degree of political clout with government officials. Profitability was important, but it took a back seat to the achievement of political aims. Manufacturers consequently found themselves motivated to sign cross-border agreements with foreign companies. The factory that manufactured a shirt for $5 willingly sold it to the importer at cost, even knowing that the importer was selling it for as much as $25 or $35. Manufacturers understood the game. There was an element of risk in trying to squeeze a margin out of a large importer, and it was an especially unwise thing to do from an economic standpoint if that customer had a product that was unique.
the Chinese are trying to build a job base. they are not looking at Capitalism like we do.
why are they doing this? to build a Communist Nation with real power.
and the American businesses that are "cooperating" with them for that 500% markup are the ones that are destroying our country.
people say that's how capitalism is supposed to work. a few hit the lotto, become fabulously wealthy and hire all the serfs to work for them? sorry, that's not Capitalism, it's Feudalism. a feudal Lord rules his/her Feifdom.
if we cahrged 100% tarriffs on all Chinese imports? the only people hurt would be the middle men. middle men are important, i'm not against them, i'm just saying that they have been taking too much "cut"...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: I'm with you Glass...if I can buy American...I do
otherwise it's like biting the hand that feeds ya...
people in this country had better wake up real soon and start supporting their own kind, or it WILL come back and bite em in the azz sooner or later...
oh wait, it already has!
When American quality is as good or better then Japanese quality for example.... then I'll buy American... till then I will buy whoever has the better quality... be it American, Japanese, Mars or Venus...
I refuse to buy inferior quality in the name of "supporting my kind"...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: Perhaps what they make is good for where they live... so those numbers are not comparable...
they are comparable when you consider that the exchange rate of the currencies is NOT "free-market"...
i've been beating this drum for years, and everybody is hypnotised by the idea of cheap cargo...
i've been telling people right her since i began posting that we would end up right where we are are and worse if we continued to allow the Government of China to manipulate the value of their currency...
it's been good for Wal-Mart and now it seem you can buy anything from China, and the quality is much better too...
but the only way we are going to avoid a serious depression in the US is if the Yuan is revalued to EQUAL (1 for 1) the dollar and soon.
the Govt of China is not Free-Market and has no intention of participating in a free market. they subsidise all energy over there. I can't melt a pound of glass for what they sell and ship finished products for.
and no i am not competing with them. the point is that anybody who is competing with them can't as long as their currency is not free-floating...
i don't buy anything Chinese unless i have no choice. and it's got nothing to do with racism or xenophobia. it's becuase i don't wan to live in a third world country.
No offense Glass,but you and others are under the illusion that other countries should play by our rules... and the reality is no they don't have to. They are their own country and they play by their own rules much like we do all the time.
They are in competition with us like every country is with each other. Whether you admit it or not America is arrogant in that it thinks everyone in this world should conform to our ways. It's what makes us be disliked around the world. You do not hear Japan, Germany and other countries say or demand that America must conform to their ways do you? Of course not and so it is with China. China never said they were Capitalist so tell me why should they float their currency when it's not their way? Because it is hurting us? Not a good enough excuse, especially in their eyes. It's working for them so why should they?
Anyways floating currency notwithstanding the salaries/wages they make most likely a good living for them. They can pay rent, buy food, clothes etc.. the Necessities.. and in the end in the Chinese mind (not the American mind) that is what is most important. Our country is materialistic so when we can't buy the latest TV or whatever we tend to call trade/currency competition unfair...
I can't speak for all Chinese but I can speak for one Chinese friend i have in China who works for a Medical clinic of some sort. Her and her husband are living better then before in a new apartment etc. and were able to send for their daughter from their hometown because now they can afford to. They are now raising her and not the grandparents. So again like i said $3,000 or whatever is no living here but in China it probably is if all you need is the necessities of life like food, shelter, clothing etc. & the cost of living is way lower over there...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
So again like i said $3,000 or whatever is no living here but in China it probably is if all you need is the necessities of life like food, shelter, clothing etc. & the cost of living is way lower over there...
it's only cheaper over there because the currency is manipulated. it's not that hard to comprehend.
trade 1$ for 1 Yuan? and it's becomes eqaulised.
as for having to send for their child? do you know why? because they were living in sex-segregated dormitories until they got their new apartment.
dormitories provided by the company as apart of their pay. which is subsidised by the state.
they may be "happy" but you cannot equate how they live to our lifestyle in any way shape or form.
and i for one don't want to live like that, i don't think anybody in America wants to.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Lockman: Why would you say Latin America has been in poverty for so long?
The inequalities between rich and poor. The rich in those countries really do believe that by keeping the majority of the population poor they will stay rich or become richer plus keep the political power. Glass has already stated this. Remember pretty much every single Latin American country has no middle class, just rich or poor. Especially in Central America imo. Someday imo this will all burst when the poor will not take it anymore. It has in the past. What the Rich in those countries do not get is that if they solve the poverty problems or minimize them and work to make the poor middle class it would only enrich the rich people even more because this new middle class will be able to afford even more goods and services of which the Rich will reap the awards because they own the goods and services. It is how America became very rich because of the creation of the Middle Class.
quote:As far as you personal problems with your brother I still wish him well, if you don't accept those wishes that's totally up to you.
Accepted. TY.
quote:Is the government where your brother lives offering any relief?
Political unrest, corruption, ecomonic meltdown (worst then ours) etc.. etc.. does not offer any relief to anyone in that country... you can read about the situation in that country in this english newspaper that is distributed in Costa Rica to avoid censorship, attacks etc.:
quote:Originally posted by glassman: it's only cheaper over there because the currency is manipulated. it's not that hard to comprehend.
trade 1$ for 1 Yuan? and it's becomes eqaulised.
Equalized for whom? for us? Again that is no reason for them to do so... it is no benefit to them only for us... again you think they should conform to us... they are their own country and not ours...
quote:as for having to send for their child? do you know why? because they were living in sex-segregated dormitories until they got their new apartment.
dormitories provided by the company as apart of their pay. which is subsidised by the state.
they may be "happy" but you cannot equate how they live to our lifestyle in any way shape or form.
and i for one don't want to live like that, i don't think anybody in America wants to.
Wow my friend. No offense but you truely just show your ignorance and sounded like PMS in that statement. You think you know about China when you don't. You read sources that are probably biased or propaganda. I do not say that those things do not happen in China but to say that you know what my friends' situation is, is a very IGNORANT statement.
They lived in a village away from Shanghai poor. So they moved to Shanghai to look for better jobs and left the care of their daughter to her parents. The little girls' grandparents. The Chinese Gov't did not move my friend to Shanghai and for your information they did not live in a sex-segregated apartment in Shanghai. They are a married couple.
Oh by the way the company/medical clinic she works for is Western owned and not Chinese Gov't/state owned. There are no "sex-segregated" apartments.You really are believing everything you are reading and that is sad because not everything you read in any source in this world is true.
The reason for the new apartment is because her salary increased and they can afford a better apartment. So they moved to a new one. Simple as that.The apartment is not company owned nor is it a "dormitory". It is a privately owned apartment building.
As for their daughter, they sent for her because when they first moved to Shanghai they could not afford to bring her with them. Much like here in America when someone from the Midwest leaves the care of their children to the grandparents while they seek work in the big cities. Then they send for their children when they can afford to. Simple as that. Nothing else about it. You read too much into it.
Oh by the way her husband works for a Web Design business and not for the medical clinic. And what constitutes happy? To be materialistic? Again you do not know my friends and are making assumptions. They are no longer poor and I would say they are Middle Class by Chinese standards and ours probably. For some reason you have this image that they live in a overcrowded shack with no TV's, telephones or other materialistic things we obsess over lol I have seen their apartment in webcam and trust me it is equalivent to a good apartment here in the U.S.
They are happy because their family is together (husband, wife, daughter and grandparents), living a better life then they did in their village.With all the necessities of life (food, shelter, clothing etc.) and some luxuries. They are where we were when Middle Class America started here just after WW2. Anyways that is happiness Glass. To have the family together, not be poor anymore and live a good, decent life. Happiness is not measured by how many HD/plasma TV's you own.
And that is HAPPY in any country including our own.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Equalized for whom? for us? Again that is no reason for them to do so... it is no benefit to them only for us... again you think they should conform to us... they are their own country and not ours...
uh, what do you mean for US? China doesn't allow it's currency to trade freely.
simply put? they sell their goods cheaper to US because they fix the rate of exchange.
they do this because they do not have enough customers out of their 1.2 BILLION people to pay what we do for things.
they cannot develop their middle class without US dollars.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Machiavelli: [QUOTE]Wow my friend. No offense but you truely just show your ignorance and sounded like PMS in that statement. You think you know about China when you don't. You read sources that are probably biased or propaganda. I do not say that those things do not happen in China but to say that you know what my friends' situation is, is a very IGNORANT statement.
They lived in a village away from Shanghai poor. So they moved to Shanghai to look for better jobs and left the care of their daughter to her parents. The little girls' grandparents. The Chinese Gov't did not move my friend to Shanghai and for your information they did not live in a sex-segregated apartment in Shanghai. They are a married couple.
Oh by the way the company/medical clinic she works for is Western owned and not Chinese Gov't/state owned. There are no "sex-segregated" apartments.You really are believing everything you are reading and that is sad because not everything you read in any source in this world is true.
The reason for the new apartment is because her salary increased and they can afford a better apartment. So they moved to a new one. Simple as that.The apartment is not company owned nor is it a "dormitory". It is a privately owned apartment building.
As for their daughter, they sent for her because when they first moved to Shanghai they could not afford to bring her with them. Much like here in America when someone from the Midwest leaves the care of their children to the grandparents while they seek work in the big cities. Then they send for their children when they can afford to. Simple as that. Nothing else about it. You read too much into it.
Oh by the way her husband works for a Web Design business and not for the medical clinic. And what constitutes happy? To be materialistic? Again you do not know my friends and are making assumptions. They are no longer poor and I would say they are Middle Class by Chinese standards and ours probably. For some reason you have this image that they live in a overcrowded shack with no TV's, telephones or other materialistic things we obsess over lol I have seen their apartment in webcam and trust me it is equalivent to a good apartment here in the U.S.
They are happy because their family is together (husband, wife, daughter and grandparents), living a better life then they did in their village.With all the necessities of life (food, shelter, clothing etc.) and some luxuries. They are where we were when Middle Class America started here just after WW2. Anyways that is happiness Glass. To have the family together, not be poor anymore and live a good, decent life. Happiness is not measured by how many HD/plasma TV's you own.
And that is HAPPY in any country including our own.
LOL. so i am wrong in one case out of 100 million? 99.9% of chinese peasants that come to the city live in company owned dorms. you think i don't have Chinese friends?
furthermore? i do not get my info from any one source, i actually know and have known quite a few very well educated Chinese Natioanls living in and working in America legally.
your friends may be happy, but they won't be coming to visit the US any time soon on a vacation because of the exchange rate. it's all relative, forcing the Yuan to trade freely would not destroy their way of life, but not forcing it is going to destroy everybody in the US's way of life.
my point is very specific. US labor cannot compete with the Chinese govt, and all of these people screeching about how bad unions are and wanting free trade with third world countries are cutting off their own noses to spite our faces.
There are no "sex-segregated" apartments.
sorry, but you are very very wrong,
When Wal-Mart and the Chinese dormitory labour regime meet: a study of three toy factories in China
Authors: Ngai Pun a; Xiaomin Yu b Affiliations: a Department of Applied Social Sciences at The Hong Kong Polytechnic University, b Institute of Social Development & Public Policy at Beijing Normal University, China
Abstract This paper analyses the characteristics of the dormitory labour regime in China's post-socialist period and the collusion of this regime in the process of the 'Wal-Martization' of global toy production. This collusion has shaped labour relations and CSR labour practices in China. This paper focuses on three factories, located in the industrial zone of Shenzhen, South China, that supply toys to Wal-Mart. It begins with an examination of the dormitory labour regime supporting China's exports and then investigates the 'Wal-Martization' of the global toy industry. The effect of Wal-Mart's bargain-driven business model on the dormitory labour regime has reshaped China as 'the world's workshop' and changed its position in the international division of labour. An analysis of the nature and characteristics of Wal-Mart's corporate social responsibility (CSR) model, which is based on providing only the 'legal minimum,' and its impact on factory labour relations in China will follow.
notice this written by and for Chinese?
not propaganda at all...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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China to crack down on illegal labor (Xinhua) Updated: 2007-06-28 09:07
China will launch a nationwide crackdown on illegal labor practices from July to August, focusing on small brick kilns, coal mines and workshops, the Ministry of Labor and Social Security said on Wednesday.
The two-month crackdown comes as the issue of forced labor in brick kilns in the country's northern Shanxi Province shocked the country.
Investigations into slavery and forced labor will be another focus of the campaign.
Necessary medical care and compensation should be given to the rescued slave laborers, the notice said, noting that government officials involving in forced labor scandals would be punished severely.
A total of 359 people, including 12 children, have been rescued from illegal brick kilns in Shanxi province, the joint investigation group announced last Friday.
China Cracks Down on Child Labor Eight ministries, including the Ministry of Public Security and Ministry of Labor and Social Security, sent out a notice recently calling to carry out the Regulation on Banning Child Labor and to establish an employee registration and verification system. The notice also demands the crack down on employers who hire child labor.
The newly-made Regulation on Banning Child Labor has been in force since December 1, 2002. The regulation is of great importance for the rectification of the market economy, protection of teenager’s mental and physical health and protection of children’s legal rights.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: Equalized for whom? for us? Again that is no reason for them to do so... it is no benefit to them only for us... again you think they should conform to us... they are their own country and not ours...
uh, what do you mean for US? China doesn't allow it's currency to trade freely.
simply put? they sell their goods cheaper to US because they fix the rate of exchange.
they do this because they do not have enough customers out of their 1.2 BILLION people to pay what we do for things.
they cannot develop their middle class without US dollars.
again why should they trade it freely? Products are cheaper for their citizens as well as other countries by their method...
They have enough customers that are becoming more and more middle class as their cities become bigger and bigger like Shanghai...
they can develop their middle class without U.S. dollars... by Euro's instead lol anyways over time they will not need foreign currency.. they are in the beginning stages of developing classes and the middle class is leading the way:
"Like a phoenix rising from the ashes of Communism, the last few years have seen the stunning growth of a flourishing Chinese middle class. Ten years ago, this group did not even exist. Today its core of independent businessmen has been joined by a growing number of private-sector lawyers, artists and employees of joint-venture companies."http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9502E3D81F3DF93AA25755C0A96E95826 0
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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Grinding poverty defies China's boom Published: January 13, 2008
YANGMIAO, China: When she gets sick, Li Enlan, 78, picks herbs from the woods that grow nearby instead of buying modern medicines.
This is not the result of some philosophical choice, though. She has never seen a doctor and, like many residents of this area, lives in a meager barter economy, seldom coming into contact with cash.
"We eat somehow, but it's never enough," Li said. "At least we're not starving."
Here in Henan's rural Gushi County, only 73,000 of 1.4 million farmers fall below the official poverty level of $94 a year, which is supposed to be enough to cover basic needs, including maintaining a daily diet of 2,000 calories.
Many more people in this part of Henan subsist between the official poverty line and the $1 a day standard long used by the World Bank.
Last month, the World Bank's estimate of the number of poor people in China was tripled to 300 million from 100 million, after a new survey of prices altered the picture of what a dollar could buy.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: LOL. so i am wrong in one case out of 100 million? 99.9% of chinese peasants that come to the city live in company owned dorms. you think i don't have Chinese friends?
And what is wrong with a company providing shelther for their employees? Wish my company did lol
quote:furthermore? i do not get my info from any one source, i actually know and have known quite a few very well educated Chinese Natioanls living in and working in America legally.
Thats weird... whenever we discuss China I always ask you to make friends with Chinese and you always say to me you do not need to be friends with them and do not have any... now all of a sudden you have Chinese friends surrounding you... which one is it? I have Chinese friends here and abroad and have always said I had.
quote:your friends may be happy, but they won't be coming to visit the US any time soon on a vacation because of the exchange rate. it's all relative, forcing the Yuan to trade freely would not destroy their way of life, but not forcing it is going to destroy everybody in the US's way of life.
Again, I am not disputing it is hurtful to the U.S. What I am disputing is that China does not have to conform to our wants when it comes to the exchange rate. As for my friends, we'll they plan to visit me sometime in the future so don't worry about them.They are doing just fine. Oh and btw even though they are difficult to sell to because they are used to bargaining a price down to almost nothing in their culture but where i work we get alot of visiting Chinese nationals with cash coming out of their azzes. So trust me the exchange rate is not hurting them.
quote:my point is very specific. US labor cannot compete with the Chinese govt, and all of these people screeching about how bad unions are and wanting free trade with third world countries are cutting off their own noses to spite our faces.
I never disagreed with you except to say it is not in the Chinese best interest to do things our way as much as you would like them to do. There is no reason for them to.
quote: There are no "sex-segregated" apartments.
sorry, but you are very very wrong,
When Wal-Mart and the Chinese dormitory labour regime meet: a study of three toy factories in China
Authors: Ngai Pun a; Xiaomin Yu b Affiliations: a Department of Applied Social Sciences at The Hong Kong Polytechnic University, b Institute of Social Development & Public Policy at Beijing Normal University, China
Abstract This paper analyses the characteristics of the dormitory labour regime in China's post-socialist period and the collusion of this regime in the process of the 'Wal-Martization' of global toy production. This collusion has shaped labour relations and CSR labour practices in China. This paper focuses on three factories, located in the industrial zone of Shenzhen, South China, that supply toys to Wal-Mart. It begins with an examination of the dormitory labour regime supporting China's exports and then investigates the 'Wal-Martization' of the global toy industry. The effect of Wal-Mart's bargain-driven business model on the dormitory labour regime has reshaped China as 'the world's workshop' and changed its position in the international division of labour. An analysis of the nature and characteristics of Wal-Mart's corporate social responsibility (CSR) model, which is based on providing only the 'legal minimum,' and its impact on factory labour relations in China will follow. notice this written by and for Chinese?
not propaganda at all...
Correct me if I am wrong but I do not see anything in that statement that suggests that the dormitories are separated by sex. But even if it is what you forget is their culture is different then ours. In their culture you do not live together til you are married. Many many differences in culture that again you seem to think they should follow our own culture. They do not have public affections between couples, dressing provocatively in public, sexually suggested ads etc.. etc.. I hope you get the picture now... but anyways my original statement is in your particular statement you posted there is no indication of sex-segregation.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: Grinding poverty defies China's boom Published: January 13, 2008
YANGMIAO, China: When she gets sick, Li Enlan, 78, picks herbs from the woods that grow nearby instead of buying modern medicines.
This is not the result of some philosophical choice, though. She has never seen a doctor and, like many residents of this area, lives in a meager barter economy, seldom coming into contact with cash.
"We eat somehow, but it's never enough," Li said. "At least we're not starving."
Here in Henan's rural Gushi County, only 73,000 of 1.4 million farmers fall below the official poverty level of $94 a year, which is supposed to be enough to cover basic needs, including maintaining a daily diet of 2,000 calories.
Many more people in this part of Henan subsist between the official poverty line and the $1 a day standard long used by the World Bank.
Last month, the World Bank's estimate of the number of poor people in China was tripled to 300 million from 100 million, after a new survey of prices altered the picture of what a dollar could buy.
She just said they are not starving and $94 a year in that region provides for the basic needs. Excuse them if they do not need HDTV but much like us they can better their lives like my friends did... it's all a choice...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Thats weird... whenever we discuss China I always ask you to make friends with Chinese and you always say to me you do not need to be friends with them and do not have any... now all of a sudden you have Chinese friends surrounding you... which one is it? I have Chinese friends here and abroad and have always said I had.
uhh? i think you have the wrong glassman.
i never would have said anything like that.
i specifically told you i have refused to go there and have my work mass-produced, how would i refuse that if didn't know them? my wife is a research scientist, and we have quite a few Chinese researchers here as well...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: again why should they trade it freely?
we have no business doing business with them if they don't. that's our choice. and that's my point.
yes a choice. It's good for them and bad for us but do not think for a second China would not react if we forced their hand. We have to stop thinking in terms that were the only Superpower that can force others to our will because that is not so anymore. China is a Superpower themselves. We need them as much as they need us.
quote:anybody who tries to tell you that communism is dying in China is either self-deluded or lying.
there is no free-market anything in China.
ask Tibetans what they think?
your article is ten years old and wishful thinking...
I never said Communism is dying but what China is today is certainly not Communism anymore in the classical sense. And my prediction is it will die out in time. When that will be who knows. Could be 1 year or could be 100 years but it will happen like it did the USSR.
Btw you are correct the article is 10 years old but it does not make it any more incorrect then or now. But since your a stickler for more current information here's a more current one (i can post half a dozen similar ones if you wish?):
posted
yes a choice. It's good for them and bad for us but do not think for a second China would not react if we forced their hand. We have to stop thinking in terms that were the only Superpower that can force others to our will because that is not so anymore. China is a Superpower themselves. We need them as much as they need us.
bull. we do not need them for anything, except profits. and that's no excuse to sell out your neighbors.
bad for US, just like i've been saying.
you made my case, thank you.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: Thats weird... whenever we discuss China I always ask you to make friends with Chinese and you always say to me you do not need to be friends with them and do not have any... now all of a sudden you have Chinese friends surrounding you... which one is it? I have Chinese friends here and abroad and have always said I had.
uhh? i think you have the wrong glassman.
i never would have said anything like that.
i specifically told you i have refused to go there and have my work mass-produced, how would i refuse that if didn't know them? my wife is a research scientist, and we have quite a few Chinese researchers here as well...
Nope was you. It is only now that you are saying to me you have chinese friends.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Nope was you. It is only now that you are saying to me you have chinese friends.
find it. it ain't there. i've spent more than half my life living on or next to University campuses. i couldn't avoid them if i wanted to.
furhtermore? when people (anybody) start trying to convince me or anybody else to do things that they admit are not in my own best interest? i begin to wonder what is wrong with them.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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bull. we do not need them for anything, except profits. and that's no excuse to sell out your neighbors.
bad for US, just like i've been saying.
you made my case, thank you.
I didn't make your case because i never denied your case that it is bad for us. If i did say it was good for us then please quote me.
and yes you are correct. We need them for profits. Isn't that the American way? You didn't think we lived in a Democracy did you? lol Were first and foremost a Capitalist nation. Democracy is just a afterthought. Just like in China Communism is becoming an afterthought. But anyways we are about Greed and so they have become so. We taught them well in that regards.
So like I said we need them and they need us. We use each other in whatever way for the one thing that matters to both us more then anything: The almighty Dollar (we'll when it was almighty). And that is the bottom line. All else is just conversation.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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Oh and btw even though they are difficult to sell to because they are used to bargaining a price down to almost nothing in their culture but where i work we get alot of visiting Chinese nationals with cash coming out of their azzes. So trust me the exchange rate is not hurting them. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
but much like us they can better their lives like my friends did... it's all a choice...
