Why not just admit that you're a socialist? It will make you feel better. After decades of handouts, the poor are enslaved by laziness and the African American community has been decimated by the failed policies of the left.
All of these handouts have taken the dignity away from the lower class and destroyed their will to achieve anything. If that is your goal - you have succeeded.
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quote:Originally posted by Propertymanager: Glass,
Why not just admit that you're a socialist? It will make you feel better. After decades of handouts, the poor are enslaved by laziness and the African American community has been decimated by the failed policies of the left.
All of these handouts have taken the dignity away from the lower class and destroyed their will to achieve anything. If that is your goal - you have succeeded.
i see, you like this game...
the African American community was already decimated prior to the handouts beginning...
furthermore? even into the 60's they were still being systemically abused by labor contracts between jailors and employers...
to say that welfare did this to them is like saying that you won't get surgery for cancer cuz most people die soon after cancer surgery...
as for me being a socialist? you base this on what exactly? i'm curious how you get so confused.. i must not be communicating very well... i do have a hard time explaining some things to the kndergartners once inawhile
show me some quotes that i put up here in context or out and we can discuss this communication problem you er i mean we have
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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I haven't read through the all the posts yet but SF you should have told me you were trying to build a case for a flat tax. I don't have many objections to a flat tax. My reservation is that I would want amenities taxed at a higher rate than necessities.
I can think of other functional issues but I think those could be ironed out with time.
Back to reading.
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I haven't read through the all the posts yet but SF you should have told me you were trying to build a case for a flat tax. I don't have many objections to a flat tax. My reservation is that I would want amenities taxed at a higher rate than necessities.
I can think of other functional issues but I think those could be ironed out with time.
Back to reading.
There you go again. Amenities taxed more than necessities? Yet again a desire to control people. It is none of Government's ****ing business what I spend my money on. It is none of their business if I'm living life right by their design or not. A flat tax is fine with me. Set it at 7.5% and leave it alone. And no I don't want to hear anything about why it should be higher. 7.5% is more than enough.
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posted
OK, i usually assume flat taxes to be based on a sales tax... sales taxes are regressive, and they would drive people trade off the grid..
i assume you are talking about dumping SS and payroll tax?
what about corporations? i see quite a few of the fortune 100 that pay less than 7.5% percent over 1 year periods by different deferment strategies... then in years like this? they mange to make those deferments of profits vanish entirely...
i notice that the uS is actually 17 in the world ranking of taxation as a % of GDP,
China isn't on the list, so i looked them up: Income Tax Rates in China
* The tax on an individual's income is progressive. As at 2008, an individual's income is taxed progressively at 5% - 45%. * The 2008 corporate tax rate for domestic and foreign companies is 25%. * Companies which started operating before 2008 can enjoy the previous 15% tax rate or tax holidays for a period defined. * Small companies pay 20% corporate tax in certain cases.
Capital Gains
* An individual's capital gains are taxable in China at the rate of 20%. * Capital gains tax for a Chinese company is added to the regular tax. * A 10% deduction at source is made from the capital gains of a foreign company in China. * On taxing capital gains from the sale of real estate, when calculating the capital gain the purchase cost is deducted from the sale price at the 20% rate. When the capital gains are in excess of 50% of the purchase price, the rate of capital gains tax fluctuates between 30% - 60%. (It is 60% when the capital gain is over 200% when compared to the cost).
# Passive income such as interest and royalties is taxable at a standard rate of 20%.
if we were to implement a flat tax? lower valued employees would have to be paid more by their employers, but employers would probably have more to pay
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
hahahah no wonder Wall St loves China so much:
China exempts enterprises from income tax on securities trading www.chinaview.cn 2008-03-20 19:12:16
BEIJING, March 20 (Xinhua) -- Chinese has decided not to levy tax on corporate earnings from securities trading at the moment, seen as a move to boost the current gloomy stock market.
Income from stock and bonds trading by securities investment funds will be free from enterprise income tax for the time being, said a statement released by the Ministry of Finance and the Administration of Taxation on Wednesday.
Meanwhile, institutional investors and funds managers do not need to pay such tax for income from funds management, said the statement.
"This policy will help promote the development of the funds sector and fund subscription among investors," said He Qiang, professor with the Central University of Finance and Economics. "It's good news for the stock market."
It wouldn't matter. You'd get the same rate on groceries and other necessities as the 'poor' so it would be a wash. The only reason the 'poor' wouldn't be paying in as much tax as you would be is because you have more discretionary income to spend on luxuries than they do. Same as if the rates were straight across the board. But this way a 'poor' man is more likely to be able to afford the necessities he needs to live.
As to your response SF...
quote: Would you accept a job where you would have to work twice as many hours as you do now for the same pay? ...This is what you are asking of the gentleman in your example. If he makes $150,000, he is getting the same net income at the gentleman in your example that works his tail off to make $500,000 (taxes being figured into both incomes). What is his motivation...if he is already making the same amount of 'take home' money at his current position?...You are literally deincentivizing him to excel.
I understand your point SF but I am still telling you that your math is wrong. With a scaled income tax bracket there is no point in which a lower bracket nets the same as a higher bracket even given the scaled percentage tax (Unless, perhaps, after deductions are taken one man falls right above a bracket line while the next who makes just a little bit less falls just below. Any competent tax professional should be able to see that you are near a lower bracket line and tell you what to do to get yourself underneath it.) The difference in income may be smaller than the Gross pay would make you think it is but there will still be an increase. (Plus, when the guy is at the bar pickin up chicks he can impress them with his gross pay amount. Cha Ching! Incentive!!! )
Now you can add to that the deductions within the tax code which are geared to reduce tax expenses of the wealthy just as much as the brackets are geared to reduce tax on the poor. The middle class are the ones who lose out because they are the ones who do not qualify for the lower brackets but do not have the resources to jump through the hoops of the various deductions allowed by the government.
Now you can add to that the non-pay incentives your company pays out to high wage earners. I know you said there were no extra bonuses for the man who makes $500,000 gross but I gotta tell you SF...That just doesnt exist.
It is less expensive for the company as well as more profitable for the individual for the company to reward their top employees with non-cash gifts or with cash with qualifications. My father gets a housing allowance that gets recorded differently from gross pay. (And he doesn't come close to a $500,000 gross.) My computer whiz friend gets bonuses in the form of stock. Another I know gets a company car and has not paid for gas/insurance/vehicle maintenance for years. A bonus my company likes to use is free parking. They own the ramp so it hardly costs them anything but it has the effect of reducing the cost of living for their managers by $1200 a year.
These types of bonuses don't get counted as payroll or income and are taxed differently. They are aimed at reducing the cost of living or tying the wealth of the individual to the success of the company. So please don't try and tell me the wealthy man gets the short end of the stick. It just isn't true. It is the middle class that has always and will always gets pants'd by the system.
quote: As you've already mentioned the Bridge to Nowhere debacle... So saying that the things you mentioned are good ways of using the money taken is a little naive; because while they are, we can't make sure that's where it will go.
I have already agreed with you that the government spends too much. But this is not the fault of the small-collars who receive welfare or unemployment. Place your anger with whom the responsibility belongs and yell at your congressman and senator about the 8% of the budget being used currently to pay the interest on their inability to "color within the lines".
quote: Those 'tools' Big, they are paid for by taking money away from the Rich. How are the rich 'strengthened' by removing their resources?
Three ways. The first way is for those who find themselves at the point where they want to makes something of themselves. The rich have given them a ladder to self reliance and every man who climbs that ladder helps share the cost of the ladder and reduces the amount needed to keep the ladder in place. Second, as Glass has mentioned before desperate men do desperate things. It is a form of security. And third, do you really want homeless and diseased folks dying in the streets? Do you really think there isn't a cost that will come with that too? Closing your eyes to a problem doesn't make it go away.
quote: As with the scaled income tax, Big, you're punishing success. You're removing the incentive to excel by reducing the net benefit vs effort expended. That would simply drive even more jobs overseas as companies would have no reason to invest here.
Effort is rewarded in many ways, gross pay is only the most obvious one.
I am assuming by the driving jobs overseas reference we are speaking of business taxes now. Corp. taxes can drive jobs overseas but that is only because our government hasn't yet closed the tax loopholes that make it easy for them to do so and still remain American businesses. Call your congressman. Health care costs, the Clean Air and Water acts, and wage disparity also drive jobs overseas. Does that mean we should lower our standard of health care, let businesses choke our air and dirty our waters as much as they want (increasing our need for health care), and pay 12 yr old kids a buck an hour to create Martha Stewart's new line of dishes?
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quote: There are times however when borrowing what you do not have in order to take advantage of an opportunity is worth the cost
quote: [QB] LOL, big screen tv's aren't an opportunity. Netheir are homes you can't afford or new cars. {/QB]
LOL no they are not. But taking out a loan to start a restaurant? You are borrowing money you do not own. Further you (and the lender) are taking a big risk as eight out of ten restaurants die within 3 years. And yet...gee, that happens all the time!
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posted
7% tax on profit income. Meaning that you first take off your costs of existence. Now I know what you're going to say; You and a few others are going to explain that the government just won't get enough in revenue. It is indeed sad. I've spent the better part of today weeping for their possible loss. Really sad stuff. I am expected to do more with less everyday... I say it is about ****ING time government did the same! Fair and honest tax policy is something this nation has eluded for years. More importantly government has proven BEYOND the doubt of the most sensory deprived moron's perception that they cannot be trusted with maintaining fair tax policy, nor what they do with the proceeds of that inevitably unfair and overburdening policy. This is how it works: You get paid. You then pay for stuff that you need to exist. Food is a deduction. Shelter is a deduction. Transportation is a deduction. Fuel Electricity water. All these expenses can be proven by retaining monthly bills. What's left over is profit. You pay 7% of that amount to maintain the ever important federal government. So you see that it will inherently not be exactly a flat tax since the lowly paid among us will not have any profit and therefore will not pay the income tax. And sure the very rich will wiggle out of paying the full 7% as well. But I am not interested in maintaining the morality of common people. I'm interested in instilling it in government.
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posted
in other words? all those politicians would need to get real jobs to get rich instead of finding ways to funnel our tax dollars to all their friends who in turn hire them to give motivational speeches at awards banquets for 100$/word?
gee, i dunno how they'll manage to keep adding to their tax free hedge funds in Shanghai...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: Flat income tax. I'm not sure I'm a fan of a national sales tax.
How about no sales tax in any state period... or what they have in NYC... no sales tax on clothing etc. purchases under $110... that would save people alot of money and they will spend more which would benefit the economy etc...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:How about no sales tax in any state period...
How about stopping most of the entitlements, so the government won't need so much money?
The gov't will always need so much money or claim to need it so say something intelligent for once... I gave a viable solution and as always you contributed nothing... i proposed a actual tax cut/elimination that drains our wallets... to me a extortion on our purchases and this coming from a Left wing socialist/capitalist... who woulda thunk?
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:How about no sales tax in any state period...
How about stopping most of the entitlements, so the government won't need so much money?
Define "entitlements", carefully, specifically, and unambiguously (which eliminates your declaring what you don't like to be an entitlement and what you do like to not be an entitlement). Otherwise, you're just whistling past the grave yard and declaring yourself brave when you get home.
It's damned easy to declare that you are against evil, but it isn't really much of a position. It's deciding what evil is that is the problem. Being against evil (or waste or corruption or whatever) is so much hot air if you haven't specified what evil is.
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posted
"Everyone pays the same % no matter what they make."
No, because there you have to define, AHEAD of time, what constitutes income.
The devil is in the details, and you can bet the very rich will be buying off those that decide what income is and define income so that it won't include much of theirs.
"Everyone is taxed on what they consume...not on what they earn."
Nonsense. When they get through with exceptions, we'd learn that what the very rich "consume" isn't included as things "consumed".
posted
Yep, and whatever system we would use, as long as we allow the free market is perfect crowd to dictate how taxing is done, as they do now, it will remain a system that amounts to nothing more than a method of transferring wealth from the masses to the very rich (who DO NOT reinvest their profits within our economy, but hide it in various tax dodges they have manage to lobby to their advantage or take it offshore where it never again is subject to contribution to our treasury.
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quote:Define "entitlements", carefully, specifically, and unambiguously
Welfare, food stamps, Section 8, Medicaid (except for children), government paid utility bills through various programs, all unemployment contributions by employers, social security for FUTURE employees, all government bailouts of private industry (not technically an entitlement), etc.
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You ignored the requirement to not simply list what you don't like. Doing that is nothing but a simple minded declaration that it is all up to your individual position, which is a cheap egotistical selfish violation of logic, leaving any and all future (and present) consideration of what an entitlement is to your fancy and entirely without definition.
I said to give a "DIFINITION" and specifically said that IS NOT a listing of your prejudices and selfish whims.
You have made it clear that you have no idea what constitutes a definition.
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which is a pretty interesting form of civil disobedience and really does get right into the core of the issues of civil protest and PEACEFUL civil diobedience
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
No doubt, by now, that biker is mired in legal bills to pay for attorneys to defend himself from resisting arrest charges stemming from his attempt to run down that innocent policeman, who was clearly minding his own business.
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posted
July 31 2008 - A raid on the house of the Mayor of the town of Berwyn Heights has resulted in the shooting deaths of the family's two Black Labrador dogs by police.
They launched their assault on the house after a 32lb package of marijuana was delivered to the Mayor's house, addressed to his wife.
The package had originally been identified as containing drugs, when a drug dog detected the scent while it was at a shipping facility.
Police officers posed as delivery men, and when the package was accepted, they launched their raid on the home.
The dogs were shot by police officers who stated that they felt threatened by their presence.
"We're not in the habit of going to homes and shooting peoples' dogs," said Sgt. Mario Ellis. "If we were, there would be a lot more dead dogs around the county." Cheye Calvo, was not arrested during the raid, but he and his wife are currently being investigated by police following the discovery of the drug delivery was made.
In his defense, Mayor Calvo is pleading the fifth, stating that he is not sure how and why the drugs ended up on their doorstep.
"My government blew through my doors and killed my dogs," Calvo said. "They thought we were drug dealers, and we were treated as such."
Calvo has been the Mayor of the little town, home to 3000 residents since 2004.
posted
The all-white jury found Sgt. Joseph Chavalia not guilty on misdemeanor charges of negligent homicide and negligent assault. He had faced up to eight months in jail if convicted of both counts.
Chavalia shot 26-year-old Tarika Wilson and her young son she was holding, killing her and hitting him in the shoulder and hand, during a Jan. 4 SWAT raid on her house. One of the child’s fingers had to be amputated.
Officers had been looking for Wilson’s boyfriend, a suspected drug dealer.
Prosecutors said Chavalia recklessly fired into a bedroom where Wilson and her six children were gathered.
He fired three times at her even though he could not clearly see her or whether she had a weapon, Prosecutor Jeffrey Strausbaugh said.
“He couldn’t tell Tarika had a child in her arms,” he said during closing arguments Monday.
Chavalia, an officer for 32 years, had testified that he thought his life was in danger when he fired the shots. He said he saw a shadow coming from behind a partially open bedroom door and heard gunshots that he thought were aimed at him. It turned out that gunfire he heard was coming from downstairs, where officers shot two charging pit bulls.
Ricker, like Chavalia, said he preferred to keep his gun set on an automatic mode that fired multiple shots instead of single shots with each trigger compression. Police policy allows officer to set their guns as they prefer.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Officers had been looking for Wilson’s boyfriend, a suspected drug dealer.
Maybe she wouldn't have been shot if she wasn't shacking up with a drug dealer! DUH!
quote:The all-white jury found Sgt. Joseph Chavalia not guilty on misdemeanor charges of negligent homicide and negligent assault. He had faced up to eight months in jail if convicted of both counts.
You see, the justice system worked again! YEAH!
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posted
As recognized in your memorandum, the Fourth Amendment imposes restrictions on the authority of federal law enforcement officers to enter a residence even when they have a valid search warrant based upon probable cause. As the Fourth Amendment states:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
U.S. Const. amend. IV. In applying the Fourth Amendment, the Supreme Court has held that, even when they are conducting a search lawfully authorized by a warrant, officers must generally knock and announce their identity and purpose before entering a private residence to execute the warrant. See Wilson v. Arkansas, 514 U.S. 927 (1995). The Court has stressed, however, that this general principle "was never stated as an inflexible rule requiring announcement under all circumstances." Id. at 934. On the contrary, there are well-established exceptions to the "knock-and-announce" requirement, primarily in situations where exigent circumstances make it necessary for officers to enter the premises without prior announcement for reasons of physical safety or in order to prevent the imminent destruction of evidence or contraband. See id. at 936.
quote:you means she wouldn't have been killed by full auto fire if a no-knock warrant had not been issued right?
No, I mean that maybe she wouldn't have been killed if she wasn't shacking up with a drug dealer!
quote:basically she died so they could collect evidence...
No, basically she died because she was shacking up with a drug dealer. Having pit bulls for protection from the police was a big mistake also.
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quote:you means she wouldn't have been killed by full auto fire if a no-knock warrant had not been issued right?
No, I mean that maybe she wouldn't have been killed if she wasn't shacking up with a drug dealer!
quote:basically she died so they could collect evidence...
No, basically she died because she was shacking up with a drug dealer. Having pit bulls for protection from the police was a big mistake also.
actually, you'll find there's alot more on this story... for instance this followed a several month investigation, and the dude could have been picked up on the street...
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