"I would do everything legal to target the criminals and gang bangers. That would include conducting traffic stops (complete with drug dog) on the identified criminals for every minor infraction. I would also add security lighting; install surveillance cameras in the worst areas; and arrest the criminals for EVERY minor infraction. In addition, aggressive prosecution with no plea deals would be the order of the day. The point is to make the point of least resistance elsewhere for the criminals. That's my plan."
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This quote pretty much said it all.
The problem Propertymanager is that perfect world is only perfect if you are standing on the right side of what going on.
To me the whole point of the discussions that have been going on for a long time is not that we don't want REAL criminals to pay for their crimes.
We just don't want to give up all our freedoms and rights that are forefathers have fought and died for to catch all the criminals. This might be a scary thought for some.
Yes there is always some risk in this.
What I expect from agencies that have authority to enforce laws are people that do not use their authority for their own self purpose which could include many things.
If these indivuals abuse their power as the constitution states then i feel and hope that their will be another power that would correct the situation.
This does not seem to be happenning.
Your quote above was a very good example of what other posters have been trying to explain to you on several different topics that are similiar in nature and what they do not want.
It all starts with an idea very similiar to the one suggested in your quote.
Lets get all the drug dealers, gang bangers etc. Like i said it starts with a person in charge deciding what description most fullfills what they are looking for.
As time moves on these parameters always seem to get wider and wider allowing agencies to take more and more rights away in the word of protecting us.
I am not talking about the bad apples, i am talking about the polices that are put in affect by agencies on and off the books
We go from a turned hat to a jacket color, tatoos, on and on it goes.
Many of these agencies have gotten to the point where many parts the Constitution has become a thing of the past!
The one thing you seem to want to forget is that even the bad guys are suppose to have rights.
As we follow this path we just don't know who is next to be targeted as the BAD guy.
As far as your statement about crime in your neighborhood... come on Propertymanager.
I have coached kids for a lot of years and some of those years of coaching were probably in a very similiar neighborhood as you decribed.
All you had to do as a coach was to listen to the kids and help when possible and beleive me there is plenty of crime in these neighborhoods on and off the records.
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quote:It all starts with an idea very similiar to the one suggested in your quote.
Lets get all the drug dealers, gang bangers etc. Like i said it starts with a person in charge deciding what description most fullfills what they are looking for.
Iwishihad,
Good Post and I agree with almost everything you said.
quote:As time moves on these parameters always seem to get wider and wider allowing agencies to take more and more rights away in the word of protecting us.
I am not talking about the bad apples, i am talking about the polices that are put in affect by agencies on and off the books
We go from a turned hat to a jacket color, tatoos, on and on it goes.
I am not talking about targeting people with a turned hat; certain jacket color; or tatoos unless they are known gang colors. That's why I discussed putting police in the neighborhoods on foot patrols. It is not difficult to learn who the criminals are. For example, in the neighborhood where a couple of my apartment buildings are located, I know exactly who the drug dealers (by name) are and what they sell; who the petty thieves are and what they typically steal and sell; which criminals are carrying guns; etc. This isn't brain surgery and just spending a little time on the street will allow you to know who the criminals are. I would target those criminals.
quote:As far as your statement about crime in your neighborhood... come on Propertymanager.
I have coached kids for a lot of years and some of those years of coaching were probably in a very similiar neighborhood as you decribed.
All you had to do as a coach was to listen to the kids and help when possible and beleive me there is plenty of crime in these neighborhoods on and off the records.
I'm talking about crimes that are on the record, such as theft, breaking and entering, drug activity, etc. Nothing (that I know of) has ever been stolen from the neighborhood; there has never been a break-in; there has never been anyone arrested for drugs and no drug dealers stand on the corners; etc. The point was that crime doesn't have to be rampant in any neighborhood. There is virtually no crime here (absolutely none that I'm aware of in my neighborhood) and crime is rampant in the low income areas of the city.
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I think my brain is working overtime or not working at all because when i read about that neighborhood all i picture are some of the movies they have made over the last 30-40 years about that perfect neighborhood.
One of those movies was The Truman Show, i believe they had another one when some creature had entered all the peoples brains in one neighborhood and then my favorite RAMBO.
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quote:Originally posted by Propertymanager: Do you ever have a good day Jordan? Or do you feel that you've been oppressed every day? A perpetual victim? Get over it!
me?..oppressed??a victim?..of what?..is that what you think?...my god..your comprehension leval is kinda slim, huh?....now as for a good day or not..my days are usually very fun and laid back. Play alot of golf,,( shot a 68 yesterday)..play sax,, work,,fix my house,, practice,, fish,, work in my garden..its a pretty good life!..I used to work and live in the heart of the ghetto, would hear gunshots everyday, was shot at from 1 foot away, dealt with crackheads all day, (part owner in a corner grocery store and lived upstairs), so I understand how you have developed your hatred and bias. I dont feel sorry for all the adults in the ghetto..its their kids . the adults have opprtunity to better themselves but many times dont want to work that hard. I understand that. They go with what they know. 3 hots and a cot dont scare them. what has to be done (imo) is take the incentive for criminal activity away. putting more cops and 24 hour watches only moves the problem, doesnt stop it. Kinda like Iraq.
quote:what has to be done (imo) is take the incentive for criminal activity away. putting more cops and 24 hour watches only moves the problem, doesnt stop it.
I agree, but how would you take away the incentive for criminal activity? That sounds great in theory, but not very realistic.
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posted
Terrible pain and brutality never stopped crime if it did the Romans could have stopped it a long time ago.
I believe that there is a partial answer but it would take a minimum of 2 generations maybe a lot more.
Security,education,health care and a real choice of a different life other than what they have. A choice that is possible for everyone that wants it no matter what skills they have or don't have.
Volunteers of people who made it coming back to act as role modles.
I believe this works but not instantly be we did not make slums instantly either.
Lots of problems in society did and lack of regulation hurt as much as helped.
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LADY COPS ARRESTED IN BRONX BEAT By DAN MANGAN Michelle Anglin Last updated: 8:17 am August 19, 2008 Posted: 3:50 am August 19, 2008
Two female cops were busted for punching, kicking and pistol-whipping a Bronx driver until his head cracked open - just beacuse he refused to close a car door blocking their path, authorities said yesterday.
Michelle Anglin 37, and Koleen Robinson, 24, were stripped of their shields and service weapons, and slapped with a laundry list of charges topped by gang assault, authorities said.
"I'm not feeling so well right now," said driver Marlon Smith, 35, a father of three who needed 25 staples to close three gashes in his head.
Smith's brutal encounter with the cops - who both work out of Bronx Transit District 12 - took place Saturday, authorities said.
Robinson, driving her black Chevy Suburban with Anglin, pulled alongside Smith's parked car on White Plains Road at East 218th Street in the Williamsbridge section.
Apparently angry over Smith's open driver-side door blocking their way, one of the women yelled, "Close the door you f- -ing a- -hole!" according to a criminal complaint.
"What?" a stunned Smith asked.
The cop repeated the profanity, and Smith shot back, "You are a f- - -ing *****!"
The cops then walked up to Smith and Anglin sprayed him with Mace. He got out and grabbed the cop, but Robinson started pummeling him, the complaint charges.
"Do you know who you are f---ing with? We are the police!" one of the officers shouted.
After a good Samaritan intervened, Robinson started belting Smith with a baton, according to the court papers.
Smith grabbed the baton before Anglin hit him with a gun, the papers say.
When one of the women pointed her gun at his face, uniformed officers arrived and arrested the duo.
When later asked by Internal Affairs investigators about the incident, Robinson would say only, "I was there. I was with Officer Anglin," the papers say.
Robinson's father, Lascelles Robinson, said his daughter, who is engaged, and Anglin, who lives with her young son, "are best friends."
"She enjoyed police work as far as I know," he said.
When reached on her cellphone, Anglin said, "I cannot talk. Sorry."
The beating victim, who has headaches, blurred vision and swelling on his face, said he was warned by Internal Affairs cops to keep his mouth shut.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:Michelle Anglin 37, and Koleen Robinson, 24, were stripped of their shields and service weapons, and slapped with a laundry list of charges topped by gang assault, authorities said.
quote:Michelle Anglin 37, and Koleen Robinson, 24, were stripped of their shields and service weapons, and slapped with a laundry list of charges topped by gang assault, authorities said.
So...the system worked again!
I wouldn't say the system worked, more like they were caught by chance.Had they not been caught by chance this case would of been his word against theirs. They probably have done other criminal acts before this incident.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:Michelle Anglin 37, and Koleen Robinson, 24, were stripped of their shields and service weapons, and slapped with a laundry list of charges topped by gang assault, authorities said.
So...the system worked again!
I wouldn't say the system worked, more like they were caught by chance.Had they not been caught by chance this case would of been his word against theirs. They probably have done other criminal acts before this incident.
I guess some could say your never satisfied.
-------------------- Let's Go METS!!!
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I must be making progress here. If you socialist wackos "don't like" me, that's great. You leftists usually hate anyone on the right!!! With that success, some of you may actually come to your senses and move to the RIGHT!
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quote:Originally posted by Propertymanager: I must be making progress here. If you socialist wackos "don't like" me, that's great. You leftists usually hate anyone on the right!!! With that success, some of you may actually come to your senses and move to the RIGHT!
"If you socialist wackos "don't like" me, that's great."
Well, you certainly may consider yourself successful, then. But for reasons quite different from those you champion. (I can't explain them to you, for if you were capable of understanding, you wouldn't be such sick rude jerk.)
Though I am far from a "socialist", I can assure you that "leftist" do no "usually hate anyone on the right!!!". Indeed, naturally, they are so overcome with feelings of wanting to "include and encompass" everyone in th good of society, including even the mentally demented and deficient who hate out of political habit, they allow your kind more room and liberty than is deserved.
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quote:Originally posted by Propertymanager: I must be making progress here. If you socialist wackos "don't like" me, that's great. You leftists usually hate anyone on the right!!! With that success, some of you may actually come to your senses and move to the RIGHT!
Hard to hate someone who is clearly pittied.
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posted
if we want to get rush limbuggers schtick? we can turn on the radio PM, have you ever had an original thought?
SF recently asked why nobody on the right ever takes on "tr"Annie Coulter...
maybe it's cuz plenty do, but they tire of having well thought out opinions get drowned out by the chanting of "pep rally" right wingers?
for instance? what does "moving to the right" mean? it seems to me that "moving to the right" means i have to agree with rush limbugger or "tr"Annie Coulter all the time...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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Police used Tasers more on black suspects, city finds Of 1,417 Taser deployments by police, 67 percent were used on black suspects Police say their use of Tasers was not tied to race, but to a person's behavior Houston spent $4.7 million on Tasers in 2004
HOUSTON (AP) -- Houston police officers have used Tasers more on black suspects than any other group of individuals, according to a city study released Monday.
Of 1,417 Taser deployments by officers between December 2004 and June 2007, nearly 67 percent were used on black suspects, according to an audit conducted for the city by a team of criminology, statistics and mathematics experts. About 25 percent of Houston's population is black.
The audit was requested by Houston Mayor Bill White in 2006, after several high-profile incidents. That year, Houston Texans offensive lineman Fred Weary was shocked during a traffic stop, and an officer called to quiet a noisy music club shocked musicians and concertgoers. The latter incident was videotaped and widely viewed on YouTube.
Minister Robert Muhammad, with the southwest regional headquarters for The Nation of Islam, said the study shows that police are more apt to use the weapons on black suspects than suspects of other races.
"Can we say it's racism? Yes, and some people would argue no," said Muhammad. "The greater argument is abuse of authority. We give them authority to protect us. But instead of using that authority to protect us, they abuse us with it."
Houston police said their use of Tasers was not tied to race, but to a person's behavior.
"It's not a racial issue. A Taser device is no different from a radar gun. It's race neutral," Executive Assistant Police Chief Charles McClelland said after the Houston City Council meeting during which the report was released.
The study found that black officers were less likely than white or Hispanic officers to use Tasers on a black suspect.
"We have to spend more time in determining why these racial and ethnic differences exist," said City Controller Annise Parker, whose office oversaw the audit. "Simply ignoring them or saying they are not significant is not going to make them go away."
McClelland said Houston police arrest more than 100,000 people each year, and less than one-half of 1 percent of those individuals are ever involved in a Taser event.
"It is so rare," he said.
The report did not give a breakdown of arrests by minorities.
The city spent $4.7 million on Tasers in 2004. The Tasers were introduced a year after the shootings of two unarmed teens. But the audit found that Tasers, which were touted as an alternative to the use of deadly force, did not reduce the number of officer-involved shootings.
The audit also found that no policy exists as to how many times a Taser may be used on an individual.
About 11,500 law enforcement agencies across the country use Tasers, according to the National Institute of Justice.
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
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Brooklyn Man Dies After Police Use a Taser Gun
By TRYMAINE LEE and CHRISTINE HAUSER A naked and apparently emotionally disturbed man fell to his death from a building ledge in Brooklyn on Wednesday after an officer shot him with a Taser stun gun, the police said. The police and witnesses said he had been yelling at passers-by and swinging a long light bulb tube at officers before he fell.
The man, identified by the police as Inman Morales, 35, was taken to Kings County Hospital Center with serious head trauma after falling about 10 feet to the ground, witnesses said. He was later pronounced dead, officials said.
Mr. Morales’s death on Wednesday afternoon was another episode in the controversial history of Taser use in the city. While Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly has looked cautiously on the use of stun gun technology by the Police Department, he recently said he was open to broadening the use of the weapons after a city-commissioned study on police shooting habits urged the department to consider using Tasers more frequently instead of deadly force when applicable.
A video taken by a witness and posted on the Web site of The New York Post shows Mr. Morales naked on the ledge, waving the filament tube over the heads of officers as onlookers screamed, an eerie soundtrack to what soon followed.
“It was a dead man’s fall,” said a witness, Charlene Gordon, the property manager for the four-story brown-brick building at 489 Tompkins Avenue in Bedford-Stuyvesant, where Mr. Morales rented a third-floor apartment.
Ms. Gordon said that another tenant in the building told her that she had heard Mr. Morales screaming in his apartment, and then saw him in the hall acting strangely. Ms. Gordon talked to his mother during the standoff, and she told Ms. Gordon that she had not seen her son in a couple of days. She also said he had stopped taking his medication, Ms. Gordon said.
Mr. Morales’s mother went to the building, where she found her son out of control, witnesses said. About 3 p.m., she called 911.
Officers with the Emergency Service Unit who arrived at the building were soon chasing Mr. Morales through his apartment, out a window and onto a fire escape. By then he had ripped a long light bulb from a ceiling fixture and was jabbing it at the pursuing officers, the police said.
He then jumped from the fire escape onto the narrow housing of a rolled-up security gate over the storefront on the ground floor of the building, the police said. Mr. Morales again swung the long tube, hitting an officer on the head, the police said.
“He was naked and he kept screaming,” said Joseph Adrien, who works at a nearby dry cleaners. Another witness said Mr. Morales’s mother was kept off to the side, pleading with the police to let her calm her son’s nerves, but being told repeatedly that it was now a police matter.
For about 30 minutes, Mr. Morales yelled that he did not want anyone touching him, and the police yelled back that they wanted him to come down, witnesses said. Then, an officer approached the man on his perch and fired the Taser at him.
Ms. Gordon said that Mr. Morales had lived in the building for about three years. She described him as quiet and neat. He had previously worked in the financial industry, but had been receiving rent subsidies, she said.
Community activists held a news conference after Mr. Morales’s death, urging neighbors not to prejudge the police and urging the authorities to fully investigate.
City Councilman Peter F. Vallone Jr., chairman of the Public Safety Committee, said in a telephone interview that the situation could have been handled better by the police.
“My first take is that while I’m sure there are no experts out there on how to handle a crazy naked man with a weapon on top of a ledge, I’m also sure this wasn’t the right way, ” Mr. Vallone said on Wednesday evening.
“A situation like that is never going to end in a good way,” Mr. Vallone said after watching the video. “The most important thing is that no innocent bystanders or police got hurt. But clearly, it could have been handled better.”
Mr. Vallone said a public hearing on the department’s use of Tasers might be needed to fine-tune its policy on using them.
The use of Tasers in New York has a troubled history. In the early 1980s, the police were condemned for using them to force drug suspects to confess. Mr. Kelly, then a deputy inspector, was assigned to reform the police practices.
The study on police shootings, which urged the department to consider expanding its use of Tasers, was conducted by the RAND Corporation and commissioned seven weeks after the shooting of Sean Bell, who died in a hail of 50 police bullets in Queens on his wedding day in November 2006.
The chief spokesman for the Police Department, Paul J. Browne, said Mr. Morales’s death was under investigation. Department guidelines say an officer may use a Taser if an emotionally disturbed person is a danger to himself or to others. Emergency service units may use it in an emergency without direction, or, as on Wednesday, at the direction of an emergency unit supervisor on the scene, Mr. Browne said.
Currently, emergency service unit officers use the Taser about 300 times a year, mainly when responding to some of the 80,000 calls regarding emotionally disturbed people, officials said.
The handgun-shaped device, which incapacitates a target with a pulsating electrical current and is meant to be an alternative to deadly force, got a higher profile in the department in June when Mr. Kelly announced that Tasers would also be used by sergeants on patrol, who would carry them on their belts instead of keeping them in the trunk of their cars.
Mr. Browne said that officers responding to a situation in which someone is threatening to jump from a building or other high structure will routinely request an inflatable bag to help break the jumper’s fall. But he said that Mr. Morales was only about 10 feet from the sidewalk, and that it was unclear whether a bag had been requested but had not made it to the scene on time, or whether it had not been requested at all. Mr. Browne said the matter would be explored as part of the investigation.
“His mother called 911,” said Sharonnie Perry, a community advocate who lives down the street. “She called for assistance and the assistance she got was her son being killed.”
Karen Zraick contributed reporting.
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
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clearly,in my eyes, this innocent man, whose only crime was failing to take his meds,was murdered by the cops. So, an easily breakable flourescant light is a weapon?..Pure B.S. spin!! the mother tried to talk to her son to calm him, but the jack-booted thugs wouldnt let her?!! why not? Seems that would be a very smart thing to do...Police are out of control and must use better judgement. Years ago, my bro wanted to become policeman and took the prelim screening...they deemed him too intelligent. They want sheep, to follow strict guidelines, not people to think for themselves, who can use intelligence to find a solution. PROCEDURES MUST BE FOLLOWED WITHOUT QUESTION!...
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: clearly,in my eyes, this innocent man, whose only crime was failing to take his meds,was murdered by the cops. So, an easily breakable flourescant light is a weapon?..Pure B.S. spin!! the mother tried to talk to her son to calm him, but the jack-booted thugs wouldnt let her?!! why not? Seems that would be a very smart thing to do...Police are out of control and must use better judgement. Years ago, my bro wanted to become policeman and took the prelim screening...they deemed him too intelligent. They want sheep, to follow strict guidelines, not people to think for themselves, who can use intelligence to find a solution. PROCEDURES MUST BE FOLLOWED WITHOUT QUESTION!...
I must agree with you, there are police officers that seem to take pleasure inforcing the law in a very violent manner. Even watching the T.V. show cops you can see how agressive these guys are, and they know their on camera. Makes you wonder exactly what kind of training these guys go thru.
-------------------- Let's Go METS!!!
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posted
Police operate, by choice, in an ever present attitude that assumes they are both smarter and more right than us, those they call "the civilians".
Moreover, their training goes to great length to assure that they believe that they are more capable than you at making decisions under pressure and in emergencies.
The environment they live in is one where, as an old friend that I've known since childhood and who went into police work bragged to me, "all you have to do is kick ass and take names and that tells "the civilians" they better do what they are told or the ass kicking is gonna get worse. And no one will dare complain because they know that cops take care of cops and they don't want to have to be looking over their shoulder all the time to see what kind of cop is following them today (I edited out the off color and racial adjectives and such). He was explaining to me why not long after he became a cop he stopped associating with "the civies" and "from then on, all my friends were cops ".
They exist within a private fraternity or sort of closed clique, where their only social communication other than issuing orders to "the civilians" is with others within the ranks of law enforcement.
It isn't difficult to see how they become convinced that they are the only reason society can function, or, as one put it to me, "If we stopped telling them what they were allowed to do and how to do it, "the civilians" would wipe themselves out overnight.
I've known many dozens of them and have yet to find any that actually respect what they call "the civilians" and not more than a hand full that understand that the law they are charged with enforcing is civil law and they too are civilians.
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quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: clearly,in my eyes, this innocent man, whose only crime was failing to take his meds,was murdered by the cops. So, an easily breakable flourescant light is a weapon?..Pure B.S. spin!! the mother tried to talk to her son to calm him, but the jack-booted thugs wouldnt let her?!! why not? Seems that would be a very smart thing to do...Police are out of control and must use better judgement. Years ago, my bro wanted to become policeman and took the prelim screening...they deemed him too intelligent. They want sheep, to follow strict guidelines, not people to think for themselves, who can use intelligence to find a solution. PROCEDURES MUST BE FOLLOWED WITHOUT QUESTION!...
There's pictures for you of his tasering and death... you would think that cops would put a mattress or something below him... but then again cops are not known for their brains just their brawn...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
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