quote:Originally posted by glassman: please elaborate. this is one of those jokes right?
cuz the hardest labor jobs always pay the least.
of course this is changing but only because most people seem to be getting pretty soft...
Hard work doesn't have to mean physically difficult, Glass. It just means giving it the extra effort. No matter what you do for a living. All of those listed in Mach link didn't get where they were by doing the 9 to 5 and going home to spend the night drinking beer and watching the Simpsons reruns.
They worked their tails off.
It doesn't matter if it's taking a second job, investing in real estate or stocks or whatever. It's hard work to make those things pay out and increase your financial value\abilities.
Everyone on this board has taken the first step toward where these individuals are now. They WANT more and are willing to dedicate the time\energy to make it happen. They read up on stocks and how the market works then put their hard earned money on the line to get more out of it.
That's what I mean by hard work...and it pays off more times than not.
Maybe you are the one that can explain to me , specifically, what hard work dubya ever was involved with? Damed sure wasn't pocketing the tax money he collected from the good people (and bad) of Arlington that he bought that ranch in Crawford with and it sure wasn't the stock scams he was about to get sent to the many-bar for prior to that. It sure seems to be that what paid off for him was being a two faced lying crook and the son of a billionaire (who inherited all that money from one of Adolph Hitler's biggest financial and political backers).
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quote:Originally posted by bdgee: Maybe you are the one that can explain to me , specifically, what hard work dubya ever was involved with? Damed sure wasn't pocketing the tax money he collected from the good people (and bad) of Arlington that he bought that ranch in Crawford with and it sure wasn't the stock scams he was about to get sent to the many-bar for prior to that. It sure seems to be that what paid off for him was being a two faced lying crook and the son of a billionaire (who inherited all that money from one of Adolph Hitler's biggest financial and political backers).
Without having done any research on his life or family tree, I probably couldn't give you any answer resembling something authoritative. That being the case (as well as my lack of interest in him or his family tree), I can only assume that your trite description of his geneology is accurate.
Even so, I would dare to say that somewhere up in the branches there was one individual that wasn't born with a silver spoon in his mouth and had to make the cash from the sweat of his brow. As I've mentioned to Mach in another thread, I don't feel we have the right to tell someone who has earned their money that they can't give it to their children when they die. The fact that Bush Jr. still has money is a testament to the idea that each generation hasn't acted too irresponsibly with what they were given.
The fact that some in our world have money handed them at birth doesn't mean that if you weren't you can't achieve it on your own.
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quote:Originally posted by bdgee: Maybe you are the one that can explain to me , specifically, what hard work dubya ever was involved with? Damed sure wasn't pocketing the tax money he collected from the good people (and bad) of Arlington that he bought that ranch in Crawford with and it sure wasn't the stock scams he was about to get sent to the many-bar for prior to that. It sure seems to be that what paid off for him was being a two faced lying crook and the son of a billionaire (who inherited all that money from one of Adolph Hitler's biggest financial and political backers).
Without having done any research on his life or family tree, I probably couldn't give you any answer resembling something authoritative. That being the case (as well as my lack of interest in him or his family tree), I can only assume that your trite description of his geneology is accurate.
Even so, I would dare to say that somewhere up in the branches there was one individual that wasn't born with a silver spoon in his mouth and had to make the cash from the sweat of his brow. As I've mentioned to Mach in another thread, I don't feel we have the right to tell someone who has earned their money that they can't give it to their children when they die. The fact that Bush Jr. still has money is a testament to the idea that each generation hasn't acted too irresponsibly with what they were given.
The fact that some in our world have money handed them at birth doesn't mean that if you weren't you can't achieve it on your own.
Oh.
I see.
In other words, there is no substance behind your blurb and all you have to offer is BS.
It doesn't matter if it's taking a second job, investing in real estate or stocks or whatever. It's hard work to make those things pay out and increase your financial value\abilities.
Everyone on this board has taken the first step toward where these individuals are now. They WANT more and are willing to dedicate the time\energy to make it happen. They read up on stocks and how the market works then put their hard earned money on the line to get more out of it.
SF - I haven't seen any evidence of that. Some of the people on this board seem to spend 24/7 posting. Others seem to work 9-5 and then sit home drinking while they post on the forum. Your description of what it takes to make it is correct, I'm just not sure than many on this forum are willing to pay the price. In addition, with the entitlement philosophy they have, it sounds to me like they want a handout more than they want to work. Osama will be the perfect president for them!
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In other words, there is no substance behind your blurb and all you have to offer is BS.
Why didn't you say so to begin with?
Bdgee, may I ask a personal quesion?
Have I done something to offend you or are you just naturally an ass?
You asked me a question regarding Bush in response to a post of mine that had nothing to do with him. As I have no interest in him nor having done any research on him I am in no position to either counter your obvious opinion of him or jump on your 'Bush sucks' bandwagon.
My previous post was nothing more than an affirmation of my previously stated opinion that men like those mentioned in Mach's link about Blue Collar Billionaires exist and that America would be better served by holding such men up as examples rather than punish them through lop sided income tax laws.
My opinion is nothing more than that, my opinion. It needs no supporting evidence as I'm not asking you to take it as fact.
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posted
"Some of the people on this board seem to spend 24/7 posting"
If you look in the mirror and can't see yourself, does that mean you are a vampire or a werewolf or you have bad eyesight or what? Maybe you simply don't recognize yourself and think that ugly guy is someone else.
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quote:Originally posted by Propertymanager: SF - I haven't seen any evidence of that. Some of the people on this board seem to spend 24/7 posting. Others seem to work 9-5 and then sit home drinking while they post on the forum. Your description of what it takes to make it is correct, I'm just not sure than many on this forum are willing to pay the price. In addition, with the entitlement philosophy they have, it sounds to me like they want a handout more than they want to work. Osama will be the perfect president for them!
I don't know anyone on this board well enough to even begin to make assumptions about their lifestyles\habits. The one thing I know is that simply by being here they are either looking to share what they know about stocks or learn from those who know more (sometimes both). Either way, they are seeking to do more than burn their life away in front of the television. And for that at least they deserve some credit.
There are literally thousands of message boards, ****s and other outlets they could have chosen had they only wanted to 'troll' or cause annoyance. That being the case, the fact they chose this one where knowledge, opinion, and speculation center mainly around improving ones financial situation speaks to their characters.
I know next to nothing about stocks in comparison with say, Mach, with whom I disagree on a range of issues. Our differences don't mean I can't respect him for the knowledge he's gained in this area and apparently is willing to share.
Judging people by their opinions expressed in this section of the board is hardly a complete snapshot of the individuals, imo. This is an outlet area. I will differ in opinion with many, I'm ok with that. That doesn't mean that they don't have anything to offer in other areas, specifically related to stocks.
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: I do know quite confidently that English is... not formally practiced in Louisiana. With that being said;
Is it just me or did that "Doctor" not answer the question?
Also:
What was this dead guy's crime?
Obviously he wasn't charged yet.. just not enough time before he was killed. But what was he going to be charged with?
Lemmmeeee guess... Resisting arrest.
Sorry, but I was re-reading the responses in this thread and saw yours and it struck me as funny, in a morbid kinda way. You asked, "what was he going to be charged with?". Well, he was "charged" with the Taser 9 times, twice after death, guess that's all he needed to be charged with. Scary huh?
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
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Hard work pays off. So why aren't we touting it instead of punishing those that do make it?
I see no one has really even attempted to answer your question. I can think of no one more "up to the task" than me... sooo here goes:
The reason the rich are demonized whether through asymmetric taxation policy or through media of any form is because it is yet another creation of a "them". Quite simply the quote "United we stand, divided we fall" is absolutely spot on. This is something the powers that be know and are doing to us all. They have managed, through their complete control of media, to isolate each and every one of us into groups. By doing this they can more easily infringe on each group's rights increasingly without all that pain in the ass whining. Because:
"What do I care?.. that's them getting hosed... not me."
Gays Ethnic Groups Wealth Classes Religions Motorcycle Riders Suv Owners Gun Owners Criminals Druggies Rapists Murderers Theives Rednecks Mormons
You name it and there is a group named and stereotyped for everything. And each one is under attack individually... And none of us care. It's them Not us
So when you wonder why the rich are unfairly taxed.. you are but hinting at 1% of the actual problem.
The problem is that we are falling... FAST Because we have allowed ourselves to be divided.
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posted
Everyone on this board has taken the first step toward where these individuals are now.
some of us have gone way beyond the first step.
I haven't seen any evidence of that. Some of the people on this board seem to spend 24/7 posting.
LOL... some of us are multitaskers... i have 4 monitors on this computer.
this goes to the heart of your basic problem. basicaly you have an inferiority complex and feel the need to categorise everyone either above or below you to justify your existence. not that it matters, but making a single simple glass bead, which is, one of the least of my "glass abilities" is making something that will, for all intents and purpose, most likely outlast all of humanity and most of our other accomplishments. it has little monetary value in an of itself, but a million years from now? it will probably still exist.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: I see no one has really even attempted to answer your question. I can think of no one more "up to the task" than me... sooo here goes:
The reason the rich are demonized whether through asymmetric taxation policy or through media of any form is because it is yet another creation of a "them". Quite simply the quote "United we stand, divided we fall" is absolutely spot on. This is something the powers that be know and are doing to us all. They have managed, through their complete control of media, to isolate each and every one of us into groups. By doing this they can more easily infringe on each group's rights increasingly without all that pain in the ass whining. Because:
"What do I care?.. that's them getting hosed... not me."
Gays Ethnic Groups Wealth Classes Religions Motorcycle Riders Suv Owners Gun Owners Criminals Druggies Rapists Murderers Theives Rednecks Mormons
You name it and there is a group named and stereotyped for everything. And each one is under attack individually... And none of us care. It's them Not us
So when you wonder why the rich are unfairly taxed.. you are but hinting at 1% of the actual problem.
The problem is that we are falling... FAST Because we have allowed ourselves to be divided.
You've hit it on the head, Relentless, but here's the rub that gets me. If you took a poll of the members of this board and asked them if they were anti gay what percentage do you think would say yes? How about racist (insert whatever race you want)? How many would say that yes, they were? I am willing to bet that even here in this anonymous media form few would do so.
Then why is it politically acceptable here (and elsewhere) to be anti-rich? Anti-success?
It's class envy and the intellectually honest need to come out and call it what it is.
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posted
i guess i just have a thing about what "hard work" is...
i mean we've been justifying illegal immigration by saying they do work nobody else will do and i'm one of those people that doesn't like other people doing my work...
seriously? my wife and i compete over who will mow the lawn... she'll get mad if i decide to go ahead and do it...
my personal observations in life are that "Hard work" really just means jobs nobody wants to do..
i don't like painting the house, but it's not "hard" to do.... it's just not fun...
IMO? life is too short to take a career that you don't like just for money...
i have known quite a few people that retired very wealthy, and very angry at everything and everybody even tho they had/have plenty of money... as a matter of fact, in some cases it was the having of the money that destroyed their family relationships, which really are the source of the most important (IMO) pleasure in life...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
i guess i just have a thing about what "hard work" is...
Then maybe we just have a semantics issue. What term would you use to describe those who exert themselves beyond the complacency of mere survival?
IMO? life is too short to take a career that you don't like just for money...
A worthy ideal, Glass; but not everyone gets to follow their passion and support their family...unless they do the 'hard work' first.
i have known quite a few people that retired very wealthy, and very angry at everything and everybody even tho they had/have plenty of money... as a matter of fact, in some cases it was the having of the money that destroyed their family relationships, which really are the source of the most important (IMO) pleasure in life...
Quite true in many cases. Merely an excuse not to exert ones natural abilities in others.
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quote: i guess i just have a thing about what "hard work" is..
What you do IS hard work. It is taxing both mentally and physically. What I do IS hard work though it is only taxing mentally. What I used to do was hard work as it was merely physically taxing. If you apply yourself intensely towards any work.. it IS hard work and working hard.
The moral is that if you wish to prosper.. apply yourself in whatever field you have in front of you. I am currently in a field that I would have never dreamed of.. But it was in front of me and I decided to apply myself in its direction.. bamm.. to the top I rose.
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: The moral is that if you wish to prosper.. apply yourself in whatever field you have in front of you. I am currently in a field that I would have never dreamed of.. But it was in front of me and I decided to apply myself in its direction.. bamm.. to the top I rose.
posted
It isn't about being anti-rich for me. I plan on being rich one day and I think being anti-yourself could be rather depressing.
Rather it is percentage of disposable income.
You know the saying it takes money to make money? Everyone here knows that this is true.
Those who have large incomes have more disposable income and thereby have more money to use to make money.
Do I then think they should be writing blank checks to the government to satisfy every whim? No. (And bridges to nowhere piss me off) But I do believe that making sure the American infrastructure is sound and that every American has some sort of shelter, food, and access to health and mental care is more important than the indulgences that are human nature to allow when financial constraints are released.
Do I think they should pay more than their fair share? Yeah. It is an acceptable price, to my mind, to take on a larger burden in keeping this country great in exchange for living a first class life in a first class society.
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues.
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posted
sure the rich should be taxed more.. you don't get rich on your own, nobody does...
you get rich within the workings of the system, and? nobody can keep what they do earn without protection from the system... people who have nothing economic to lose don't have much need for the government.
nobody is interested in stealing stuff from people that isn't worth having
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
Do I think they should pay more than their fair share? Yeah. It is an acceptable price, to my mind, to take on a larger burden in keeping this country great in exchange for living a first class life in a first class society.
I don't think you fully realize the danger in that statement, Big.
You're not making the society better by taking from those who have succeeded and giving it to those who haven't. You're not offering incentive to raise the level of society, you're simply pulling everyone down to the same level.
The 10 Cannots that we talked about a few weeks ago were at one point common sense. What happened to that?
You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich. You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred. You cannot build character and courage by taking away man's initiative and independence. You cannot help small men by tearing down big men. You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer. You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income. You cannot establish security on borrowed money. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they will not do for themselves.
Tell me which of these are wrong. Tell me which are 'no longer applicable' in our society. These represent common sense themes that should be the basis for our economic system. Things like thrift, staying within your income, and self reliance should be things we teach from grade school on up.
But we're not.
The concept that the rich should pay for the lifestyles of the poor does nothing to motivate the poor to become rich. Why work hard to make money when that money is being handed to you already for no effort at all? Why strive to become successful when that hard earned wealth will be taken to pay for those who didn't?
The idea that people are inherently owed a certain lifestyle just for being alive is insane. The constitution allows for the pursuit of happiness...it doesn't guarantee it. If you don't purue it with all your might, what right do you have to demand that others give it to you?
You say that you intend to be rich some day. Good on you. I wish you the best and hope the Good Lord blesses your efforts. When you get there which would you like to see, the chance to help others how you see fit or the government simply taking your money to do with it what they please?
If the rich want to donate to the poor and needy, GREAT! That should be their choice. As Mach pointed out, Carnegie unloaded his money when he died to various charities. They should enjoy the right to the use of their property as much as anyone else.
But they don't.
And many of us excuse the government's theft of their wealth because it isn't us. Relentless was absolutely right about that one. Income brakets aside...theft is theft no matter if it's done by criminal in the night or by the government under cover of law.
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posted
you get rich within the workings of the system, and? nobody can keep what they do earn without protection from the system...
That same system exists for anyone to take advantage of, Glass. The fact that one person learned the rules of the system and worked to advance in it does not make them less worthy to enjoy the fruits of their labors. By the same token, one who does nothing within the same system to better their situation shouldn't expect to take from the one that did.
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posted
okay, so basically you are saying that this is the system, it's good simply because it exists and because "we" created it? we have the right to deny existance to people who don't want to utilise it?
i don't think you'll find any Christian based thinking that agrees with that...
there were Christians who followed that premise, they did stuff like give small pox laden blankets to indigenous people..
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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"That same system exists for anyone to take advantage of, Glass."
I do not doubt your sincerity nor do I doubt that you actually believe that line, but it's one of the great lies of all time.
Try taking advantage if you are the third daughter of an unmarried prostitute black mother who tossed you out into the world, at the age of 13, the morning after you refused to 'service' two of her 'customers', who showed up while mama was "servicing" another. The "rules of the system" were made clear and quickly learned from the pimp that eagerly corralled up the helpless child the week after.
No doubt, you would have overcome that start in life with hard work and quickly advanced, making enough money to pay for the medical treatments that can't cure the syphilis and AIDS the child had contracted before her next birthday. But then, you are clearly a better and stronger person that all the rest of us and the limits of biological reality are easily overcome for you.
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posted
One thing I don't think SF realizes or will admit is that since the beginning of modern human time the rich have always built their wealth from the backs of the poor... therefor it is fair to tax them proportionally higher and used the $$ for good causes to ones who do not abuse it...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: okay, so basically you are saying that this is the system, it's good simply because it exists and because "we" created it? we have the right to deny existance to people who don't want to utilise it?
i don't think you'll find any Christian based thinking that agrees with that...
there were Christians who followed that premise, they did stuff like give small pox laden blankets to indigenous people..
And here we go again...(sigh)
If one doesn't support CHIP expansion, Universal Healthcare, Minimum wage hikes, etc...they can't possibly be a good Christian...right?
Of all the approaches to this arguement, that has got to be the most cowardly, Glass. Though you do get bonus points for the Indian killing reference. I'm sure if you had added a couple more like the Inquisition and Crusades you would have won me over to anything you wanted to 'prove' my christian-hood.
In your own words Glass...
"You've got to do better than that."
Other than quick blurbs used as barbs, have you even read the Bible? From Genesis to Revelation it is about teaching one to become more. It is about personal change and improvement. Charity is part of that, yes. But as I've mentioned before, charity cannot exist if it isn't voluntary. There is no virtue, no growth if the government doesn't afford you the choice. I would like to hope that most rich people would feel the need to help those less fortunate then themselves, but I don't think it's the right of the government to force it.
So, next time you choose to make a childish insinuation about my (or anyone elses) faith because we disagree with your position, kindly do us all the favor of taking a more respectable approach.
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quote:sure the rich should be taxed more.. you don't get rich on your own, nobody does...
RIDICULOUS! Everyone in the United States has the FREEDOM to choose what they want to do.
MILLIONS have chosen to do absolutely nothing but sit on their butts; drink beer; and watch TV because they are LAZY. They are only able to do this because the government enables them by giving them handouts. Without the government handouts, these losers would be forced to get out there and work - or starve.
Millions more have chosen to put in a minimal effort and work a 9-5. This is perfectly respectable and these people are self-sufficient, but they have no reason to complain that the rich were built on their backs. They chose their path (and can change it at any time)!
A few million of the wealthiest people have chosen to go beyond the minimum required to survive. They have worked very long hours and taken risks to achieve more than the average. They create the jobs that allow the middle class to work that 9-5 and allow the lazy to have a standard of living that would be considered rich in many countries! To tax them more because they are successful is idiotic! EVERYONE SHOULD BE TAXED AT THE SAME RATE and there should be no exceptions for any class of people.
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