quote:Originally posted by Bearclaw: Apology accepted... Stock has provided the most posts of the same slant of PLNI...that being that Turek is a liar and a thief...and...interestingly that agrees with your point of view...
All I was telling Tempest is that NO ONE KNOWS WHAT IS GOING ON...NO ONE!!! and told him to do his own DD and make his decision to... Buy...Sell...or Hold
thanks for accepting the apology.
Stock and I have a similar attitude as far as comparing pledges to performance, so no surprise there.
Anyway that post of mine ranks as my most stupid of 2005, and just in time before the end of the year!
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Lil... You have any method to back VFIN off? I've been looking at his butt too long...He's been sitting on the ask like a lump on a log...A concrete PR is needed from PLNI..Oh.. I backed off PBLS...playing GXFX instead...How about you?
quote:Originally posted by lilpennypincher: BID UT folks........! lets play!
quote: For what it's worth, I just got off the phone with Rodney and he told me the PR's concerning the acquisitions, audit & app. and the share restructure are "imminent". He has seen the drafts and is still expecting them to be released prior to the end of 2005. I know this means nothing until they are released and the info made publicly available.
posted
State... I've heard imminent, soon, pending, in the near future...hahahahahaha
I'll believe it when I see it...I'd like to see it today before 2:00 PM...Wonder if that's imminent enough?
quote:Originally posted by state780: FWIW from Ihub:
quote: For what it's worth, I just got off the phone with Rodney and he told me the PR's concerning the acquisitions, audit & app. and the share restructure are "imminent". He has seen the drafts and is still expecting them to be released prior to the end of 2005. I know this means nothing until they are released and the info made publicly available.
posted
Yeah, me too, 99.9% of the PRs come out at 8:30 a.m. or sometimes 9 a.m. I think I recall one PR that came out mid-day, but if I'm not mistaken that was after another had already come out before the market opened.
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posted
There are a number of PLNI boards where emotional vents and personal attacks are the norm. Lets preserve one board for an informed discussion of the facts.
Facts:
August PR stated they were retiring shares, but failed to say what the share structure was. They said this was the biggining of a program to reduce shares and add shareholder value. PRs and BAC have alluded to share buybacks.
Company updated(on pinksheets) the # of shareholders, o/s and float shortly afterword, but failed to update the a/s leaving it at 2.0 billion when in reality it was 3.0 billion. o/s was changed to 1.8 billion, exactly 200 million less than the inaccurate 2.0 billion a/s listed on pinksheets. 200 million is the exact number of shares they claimed to retire in PR(coincidence?). BAC told investors a/s was 2.0 billion, and after the increase to 5.0 billion was discovered, BAC changed reps and the new rep continued to tell callers the a/s was 2.0 billion. Turek had been informed of this and did not stop them from giving out this false information or fire them. In fact, some are reporting JT and BH actually met with BAC recently.
Company stonewalled pinksheets on updating share structure and when they did finally give out new numbers, they left out the increase in a/s. That info had to be retrieved from WY SOS.
During this time we now know the company issued hundreds of millions of shares and a single seller is agressively selling tens of millions of shares daily.
I said they were dishonest and crafty. I'm amazed there are still some who question this assessment. How was this selective manipulation of information honest? Was this not crafty?
-------------------- Logic can protect you from the hazards of faith, hope and trust.
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Stock... That was not a personal attack on you. I simply stated to another investor that you call Turek a liar and a thief in a variety of ways. I then said there are others who see Turek as the second coming. I then said no one knows what management is doing. NO ONE!! I further advised him to do his own DD and decide. This statement is pretty darn accurate.
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Politicians often released bad news on fridays to get the minimum amount of exposure. People were busy enjoying their weekend, not reading/watching the saturday news. I'm not so sure a flood of PRs at year end bodes well. I'd rather see them Jan 3rd when everyone is watching.
If they expect pushback on what they have to tell us, look for the PRs on December 23rd.
-------------------- Logic can protect you from the hazards of faith, hope and trust.
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posted
I keep adding and adding...I can't believe it's this cheap. The company's fundamentals have not changed. This is so much more of a company than it was when the price was .0175. I truly believe we're in for a HUGE knockout punch here.
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quote: Jimbo is selling, and that came from Rodney.
Zoro again at Ihub:
quote: Last time I spoke with Rodney he waffled on whether or not the share restructure plan would be announced before the end of the year and indicated they were still working on its details. Today when I asked if all three of the pending issues would be addressed he hesitated and said he had seen drafts on several issues and when asked confirmed that "several" meant more than two. He also said he had probably said too much at this point. My take is that the share restructure plan has been or still is a work in progress and that the other matters already setled have not been announced for reasons related to the restructure.
Speculation alert: I can imagine a scenario where Turek has been selling for whatever reason, with PRs held up until his sell was completed. It could be a situation where selling/dilution would be bad news, but with countervailing good news in semco/promold closings and, I dare not dream, an actual audit completion. Even if this scenario is close to reality, the unknown factor is how big the current dilution is and how good the good news really is.
Anyway it would help explain why we haven't heard anything official (other than the odd promold non-announcement) for a month or more.
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quote:Originally posted by mbmaid: I keep adding and adding...I can't believe it's this cheap. The company's fundamentals have not changed. This is so much more of a company than it was when the price was .0175. I truly believe we're in for a HUGE knockout punch here.
When the stock was .0175 there were a lot fewer shares representing the value of the company. While the fundamentals of the company may not have changed much since then, the percentage of ownership each share represents continues to shrink. VFIN has sold at least 40 million shares today and who knows how many more to come.
As long as this company remains on the pinks there is no limit to how many shares they can print, and therefore no real protection to our share of the company. Its an added risk to averaging down that investors in transparent companies don't have to worry about.
-------------------- Logic can protect you from the hazards of faith, hope and trust.
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Clearly, they can't give us all the info we want until they're done selling shares. They more than likely have to raise a given amount of money, not sell a given number of shares.
If they don't have a hard wired year end deadline to complete the sales and issue all PRs, the timing will depend on how long the sell program takes. It would be foolish and irresponsible to accelerate the sales and force the stock lower just to meet a self imposed time line.
If they had a really great story to tell that would propel the stock higher even with the disclosure of all their financing needs(through stock sales), they probably would have released these PRs before selling the shares. It would be foolish to do otherwise. That's why I'm concerned about the magnitude of the good news offset.
-------------------- Logic can protect you from the hazards of faith, hope and trust.
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quote:Originally posted by Bearclaw: How did you calculate approximately 80% of todays volume (40 million shares) are sells by VFIN? I don't see that at all...
I missed the early trading so maybe some big blocks went elsewhere, but since Dcc 13th the vast majority of the trading was on their offer. Since 10am ET over 15 million traded on thier offer or when they whacked the bid making it their offer. Most of the sales the hour before were on their offer, but I don't have the count available anymore since my t&s is a drop off scroll, not a day long history. Most of the days volume occurred before that. If the big blocks on the close were by them (my guess), that's another 11 plus million. Whether they did 40 million or 65 million for the day its still a ton of dilution and there is no signs they are backing off.
-------------------- Logic can protect you from the hazards of faith, hope and trust.
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quote:Originally posted by StockHunter: [QUOTE] Since 10am ET over 15 million traded on thier offer or when they whacked the bid making it their offer.
That should read "since 1 PM ET". Gets confusing living on the left coast some times.
-------------------- Logic can protect you from the hazards of faith, hope and trust.
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posted
Do you need much more evidence than 80M traded with new 65 day low of .0039. with a given MM sitting the ask MOST of the day to make a reasonable case for dilution continuing ?
-------------------- A million seconds is 13 days. A billion seconds is 31 years.
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Posted on another board...The opposing view...
"JT isn't selling according to my information. You don't think he would have gone through 18 months of SOX audits, and get near the submission and intentionally corrupt them with insider sales do you? I can't believe people would be spreading such garbage."
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quote:Originally posted by Bearclaw: Posted on another board...The opposing view...
"JT isn't selling according to my information. You don't think he would have gone through 18 months of SOX audits, and get near the submission and intentionally corrupt them with insider sales do you? I can't believe people would be spreading such garbage."
Thanks for the info, Bear. Does the poster note where his information is coming from? Kempoma at rb, whom I admit I don't have an opinion on, says he got his Jim-is-selling info from Rodney, PLNI's IR at Big Apple. This is admittedly third hand but seems easy enough to check.
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posted
I doubt JT is selling his personal shares unless to meet his bankruptcy obligations. In that case he could just issue himself replacement shares.
I believe JT is trying to get rich by growing his company and wants to maintain equity control and as high a stake as he can manage.
The shares being sold are almost certainly coming from the Plasticon treasury, whether directly or indirectly. What the reasons for the sales are - buying machinery, making acquisitions, meeting obligations of the bankruptcy court, bringing in new management, other expenses, whatever -- doesn't change the fact that its killing the pps and is being done in a less than straightforward manner.
-------------------- Logic can protect you from the hazards of faith, hope and trust.
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He does not say...he just speculates..No one knows what is going on. I just posted it because folks aren't posting the opposing view here anymore. Private e-mails and other sites carry that information. To assume and then post as fact is just as irresponsible as folks claim Turek is...thus statements like my sources or third party..
No one knows that the shares carried by VFIN are "almost certainly" from the Plasticon Treasury...These statements are without fact also. My concern today is that folks buy into Stockhunters speculation as fact. Calling the SEC encouraging folks to file complaints makes me wonder about the agenda..."JT is trying to get rich" and the 40 million shares diluted statement at 2:30 ET are without fact.
These statements are a smoother way of calling Turek a liar and thief...a consistant position stated on this thread but without fact. Some days, like today, I just get sick of listening to it...
posted
Glad to get the additional info, Bear; the "agenda" comments I would take issue with. You're right that we can't know with judicial precision exactly what VFIN has been up to in recent days--e.g., the source of their shares--but Stock has a good track record. I believe he was the first one here to note VFIN's earlier massive marketing of PLNI shares, at which time he surmised dilution was under way. Some commenters derided those observations as bashing or short-inspired, but events proved him right when PLNI admitted to the dilution (the recent release of higher o/s and float numbers).
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State... I think Stock has useful information. It is however one sided...Remember that he called a rep at VFIN who told him that MM's don't short 99%+ of the time...Now I've got real estate in the Everglades if you buy that. I don't think anyone who trades in pennyland believes that.
Agenda pertains to motive. It would seem making a point a few times is good work. But posting the same personal comments about Turek daily with the same theme prompts the agenda question.
The below was posted at 7:15 on another site. The bashers are out in force and here's a reply...to the Turek is a liar and thief crowd..
"You know the buttheads, ..Any port in a storm. ..Clearly Uncle Jim is selling to support his nose-candy habit. TelcoBlue will be merged with MLON then R/M'd with CMKX, and we will all get gold bars and a secondary dividend in UNQT shares. Bubba Willy is taking a job with the U.N. peacekeepers in Mogadeeshu as a HumVee driver. 747s and the Space Station are going to crash into the HQ in Lexington, KY. Semco is a front for the CIA's secret jet fleet. And, "..sly&pizzed.." is going to make a hostile take-over Bid for PLNI financed by NITE using QBID stock as collateral."
"...And, a parrrr-triii-iiidge innnnnnnnaaaa pear treeeeeeeeeeeee...............
posted
Bear, that's courtesy of jhollen, aka best by design, aka yellow submarine. First became attuned to his value in October when he derided posters for being concerned about the secret 5 billion a/s filing and assured everyone an explanation from PLNI would be forthcoming the very next Monday or Tuesday. There's no worse signal-to-noise ratio on the boards.
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I don't want to drag this board down to the level of RB or SI by being egged on with my words being twisted and amplified, but some things need clarification.
First, no one is claiming MMs don't short stock 99% of the time. They can and do short to make a two sided market every day. Otherwise, a stock with consistant buying pressure would eventually be many bids with no ask. My contact at VFIN used 99.9% to make his point about illegal naked shorting. Certainly anyone who reads a BB is familiar with exaggeration. Maybe its 98.3%, who knows, but its close.
The shorting I was referring to is the organized, illegal naked sales of many shares, building a position and swamping the normal volume and driving the sales south. The intent supposedly is to force a company with no intrinsic value, and no other way to remain afloat but to finance with shares, out of business. Do a search on naked shorting on the BBs and check out the stocks. Almost every crappy stock on its way to zero is filled with angry investors blaming it on MMs naked shorting because their company is too good and too honest for it to be anything else. The management loves to play into the excuse.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
Those inclined to raid a company's value by naked shorting it into the ground have a world of crappy stocks to pick from. Logic would indicate they'd avoid taking on any company with intrinsic value or a method of fighting back. If 1/4 of what this company says about itself is true the naked shorters would be playing with fire. A news announcement(audit, OTCBB, for example) could blow them out of the water. A white knight could take them over in one fell swoop.
Anyone who believes in logic and the possibility that VFIN and WDCO are naked shorting this stock must also believe the company has no prospects.
-------------------- Logic can protect you from the hazards of faith, hope and trust.
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The few regulars left on this board do a very good job of DD and contribute valuable debating points. Yes, points do get repeated, but both side do this. For the most part we have avoided the crazed hyperbole copied over from the RB board. Over there it seem you either have to be 100% in love with the company, its prospects and executives or the exact opposite. Attempts at reasonable argument are requoted, misquoted and amplified turning it into a "you're either with us or the enemy" attitude. That might apply in the war on terror, but this is just a penny stock investment.
Lets perserve this board for those who speak with an indoor voice. We all want to make an honest buck. No one is paid by the company to pump the stock, and no one is paid by naked shorting MMs to bad mouth the stock. No hidden agendas. We just don't always see things the same way. Now lets continue the debate...
-------------------- Logic can protect you from the hazards of faith, hope and trust.
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SH, as I've posted, this is a great thread; good reading even for those not following PLNI.
Do peeps gets testy sometimes? sure--lotta dough in play...
Also there's the feeling of watching something "get spoiled." I know my hackles raised the first time I talked to "the new guy" at Apple, even though he was supposed to be the next big thing, hot on the heels of running HISC.
Anyway, you contribute a lot, as do some of my pals here. Remember, lottsa folks read without comment, and all you good posters have valuable insights to share...
my two cents, fwiw...
-------------------- Nashoba Holba Chepulechi Adventures in microcapitalism...
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Tomorrow is my last day posting/reading for a while. Going to visit family and they don't even have internet access. It'll be frustrating, but nice at the same time. We all need a break once in a while. Of course, they may release all sorts of crap while people are busy with the holidays. Better leave a .0015 bid and a .015 offer in GTC just in case.
Ironically, I'll be just a few miles from BACs offices. Wonder if I should pop in and say hello? On the other hand, ...maybe not. Would not expect the red carpet treatment given our previous conversations ;-)
-------------------- Logic can protect you from the hazards of faith, hope and trust.
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Stock... If that's what you really want than why not consider not calling Turek a liar and a thief? Can you make your arguments without the personal attacks on Turek? You have stated clearly and repeatedly your thoughts and feelings about JT and others.
You want this thread civil than knock it off. Buy Tex is right... folks have a lot invested in PLNI and Turek and those personal comments cloaked in assumpions about him raise a wild hair...Your words and intent was never twisted by me...You want to claim the high road then walk the walk and talk the talk...
"I don't want to drag this board down to the level of RB or SI by being egged on with my words being twisted and amplified, but some things need clarification."
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You would have to be posting on SI to know that...I didn't know Jhollands other names buy the way... I post there as Bearclaw...what name do you use?
quote:Originally posted by state780: Bear, that's courtesy of jhollen, aka best by design, aka yellow submarine. First became attuned to his value in October when he derided posters for being concerned about the secret 5 billion a/s filing and assured everyone an explanation from PLNI would be forthcoming the very next Monday or Tuesday. There's no worse signal-to-noise ratio on the boards.
posted
Stockhunter, Thanx for all the hard work and DD. Your information and opinion are very much appreciated by me and I'm sure many others on this board.
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