quote:Originally posted by state780: stock, do you have a fix on how much VFIN marketed today?
Rough approximation of 70 to 80% or close to 30 million. These guys really know their business. When volume looked light and few buyers this morning they put in a bid to prevent it from dropping. The public(and MMs) felt comfortable bidding with the power and a big inventory of bids built up. Of course, on the close VFIN took out all the accumulated bids for some real size. If they tried to sell all that stock by lowering their offer some panic selling would likely have sent this thing tanking. Smart.
WDCO did the same thing (last sept.)when the stock looked weak. They joined in on the bid, others felt safe and entered bids. On the close he swoops down, cleans out those bids and says 'thank you very much'.
This is an old specialists trick. I used to trade a very thin $140 stock. Every time the specialist made the market 138B 142A 1000X1 it meant he was long and needed to sell. Invariably, someone would try to front run the 1000 share order and buy from the specialist. The 1000 shares would never trade or be seen again and real sell orders would only find a one lot on the bid. Heed the old axiom "markets move to size".
Today you could almost hear the eternal optimists thinking "look at all those .0044 bids including VFIN, this must be real support, time to buy more". Congratulations, you just bought part of a Toyo machine.
-------------------- Logic can protect you from the hazards of faith, hope and trust. Posts: 382 | From: California | Registered: May 2005
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posted
I sure hope this company doesn't have a tight deadline to meet its financing needs. The lower the stock goes, the more shares they have to sell to raise the same dollars. A tight deadline could turn this into a flood of shares and a death spiral. Its encouraging that they stopped selling for a month and that VFIN is trying to stem the rate of decline.
Another positive is the possibility (probability in my opinion) that SEMCO owners are getting some equity participation for thier company. If the terms are already set, they will exert pressure on JT not to over dilute their stake. Of course they could also have clauses that protect their stake in the event of dilution.
Not knowing what's going on really sucks.
-------------------- Logic can protect you from the hazards of faith, hope and trust. Posts: 382 | From: California | Registered: May 2005
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posted
Did vFinance Investments, Inc. manage your investments?
vFinance Investments, Inc. (CRD #44962, Boca Raton, Florida) submitted a Letter of Acceptance, Waiver, and Consent in which the firm was censured and fined $17,500. Without admitting or denying the allegations, the firm consented to the described sanctions and to the entry of findings that it executed short-sale transactions in a NNM security and failed to report each of these transactions to the Automated Confirmation Transaction Service (ACTSM) with a short-sale modifier. The findings stated that the firm executed short-sale orders in NNM securities and failed to make an affirmative determination prior to executing such transactions. NASD also found that the firm executed short-sale transactions in NNM securities at or below the current inside bid when the current inside bid was below the preceding inside bid in the security. In addition, NASD determined that the firm's supervisory system did not provide for supervision reasonably designed to achieve compliance with applicable securities laws and regulations concerning short sales. (NASD Case #CMS030177)
-------------------- All IMHO. Do not rely upon anything I post to base your financial decisions upon. Posts: 970 | From: Montana | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Don't read too much into that censure. This is not about the type of naked shorting schemes that prey on pinks that can't survive without financing. In other words, its not a MM shorting a pink for their own account as many on these boards suspect here in PLNI.
This is a MM being sloppy with thier bookkeeping by not properly marking some of the short sales they execute on the NNM. It could also be intentional negligence in policing thier order flow in order to get more orders from certain sources.
In the NNM market, unlike in pinks, it is legal for non-market makers to short these stocks. 15 years ago everyone shorted on downticks and it was almost never enforced. They cracked down in the 1990s as many were abusing the system. While its legal to short these stocks, the trades must be marked as such. They also can not short on a downtick(lower inside bid than previous inside bid). VFINs negligence in compliance allowed the possibility that some clients could get away with shorting stock illegally. While its clearly wrong, it is not that uncommon and usually involves an occassional trade here and there. Of course the lawyer you got that blurb from is hoping someone lost money in one of those stocks and can sue VFIN for aiding that effort.
An example I have seen happen many a time as an options MM. When a flood of call sell orders comes into the options pit, MMs want to sell stock so they can buy the calls. They often jump the gun and sell before buying the calls. If they don't buy enough calls to hedge all the stock they sold, the short sales are technically illegal. In my day, they rarely got caught. The MMs knew that some firms looked the other way and that's where their orders would go. VFIN is a wholesaler taking institutional business, like orders from options MMs, hedge funds, mutual funds, banks, etc...
Bottom line: VFIN failed to mark some orders as shorts and shorted some orders on downticks. Are they doing it here in PLNI for a client. Very unlikely. The occassional order slipping through the cracks gets a $17,500 fine, but allowing hundreds of millions of shares to be sold short every day over several months could cost you your franchise. I'd bet my left you-know-what the VFIN sales come from the Plasticon treasury and are legal to sell on downticks. Hense the increase in o/s and float reported recently.
Tip in looking for short sales(on regulated stocks): If you assume the order is being handled in compliance with the regs, then watch to see if they ever sell on an inside bid below the previous inside bid. If they do, then it has to be long stock.
-------------------- Logic can protect you from the hazards of faith, hope and trust. Posts: 382 | From: California | Registered: May 2005
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posted
The company has successfully completed the privately financed and definitive agreement for the acquisition of Pro Mold, Inc., pending SEC approval.
I believe it should state,'Pending our SEC investigation'. I wonder out of the 5000 investor how many have contacted the SEC & filed complaints?? I imagine it's probably quite a few.
Sarbanes-Oxley Audit- I really don't see it now. Not after the mess the company has created. Too many unresolved issues & loose ends. That's the whole reason for Sarbanes-Oxley, to weed out the bad apples! Bawhahahahahahaha!!!!
Posts: 225 | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by cold_up_here: The company has successfully completed the privately financed and definitive agreement for the acquisition of Pro Mold, Inc., pending SEC approval.
I believe it should state,'Pending our SEC investigation'. I wonder out of the 5000 investor how many have contacted the SEC & filed complaints?? I imagine it's probably quite a few.
Sarbanes-Oxley Audit- I really don't see it now. Not after the mess the company has created. Too many unresolved issues & loose ends. That's the whole reason for Sarbanes-Oxley, to weed out the bad apples! Bawhahahahahahaha!!!!
This is cold's way of saying "Merry Christmas!" Posts: 610 | From: DC Metro area | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by state780: This is cold's way of saying "Merry Christmas!"
Plasticon investors celebrate Festivus for the "Airing of the Grievances".
-------------------- Logic can protect you from the hazards of faith, hope and trust. Posts: 382 | From: California | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Originally posted by state780: This is cold's way of saying "Merry Christmas!"
Plasticon investors celebrate Festivus for the "Airing of the Grievances".
Love it!
Lots of cryptic messages at rb about new paper. rrm got tos'd for some reason (there were much crazier posters than him, and even as an optimist he posted some really good questions); apparently shad got through to rodney but they're working off private email lists now and not posting much for public view.
Posts: 610 | From: DC Metro area | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Reading the posts on these other boards has been eye opening. Maybe even life changing. The misperceptions I've been under all these years.
I now realize the root cause of my financial problems.
Its the mailman!
Because of the mailman I have to pay for electricity, two phones, an internet connection, garbage collection, magazines, health insurance, and even the roof over my head. He takes blank paper and makes up bills every day. And I have to pay them. Damn the mailman!
From now on when my internet goes down, or the garbage man doesn't come, or lights go out, or my prescription is double billed I'll file a complaint with the post office. Working together with the utility companies that want to make me rich we'll beat back this postal mennace.
-------------------- Logic can protect you from the hazards of faith, hope and trust. Posts: 382 | From: California | Registered: May 2005
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-------------------- Logic can protect you from the hazards of faith, hope and trust. Posts: 382 | From: California | Registered: May 2005
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posted
Stock... Come on...Death Spiral...Geeezzzzz
quote:Originally posted by StockHunter: I sure hope this company doesn't have a tight deadline to meet its financing needs. The lower the stock goes, the more shares they have to sell to raise the same dollars. A tight deadline could turn this into a flood of shares and a death spiral. Its encouraging that they stopped selling for a month and that VFIN is trying to stem the rate of decline.
Another positive is the possibility (probability in my opinion) that SEMCO owners are getting some equity participation for thier company. If the terms are already set, they will exert pressure on JT not to over dilute their stake. Of course they could also have clauses that protect their stake in the event of dilution.
Not knowing what's going on really sucks.
Posts: 2660 | From: Pennyland USA | Registered: Jun 2004
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I was referring to the pps and the effect on our p&l, not whether the company will survive. As I'm sure any logical and realistic investor knows by now, JT and BH are willing to sell shares and dilute our stake for their benefit and with a willingness to deceive investors to achieve their financing needs. In theory they can authorize and issue an infinite number of shares and maintain their own personal stake in the company. But for us, our stake goes down proportionally with the pps. If the pps is driven down dramatically by their treasury stock sales(if they are under a time deadline to raise the money) then you have a 'death spiral'. Our p&l is dead. They can restructure for a higher pps (r/s, r/m, spinoff division in a ratio, etc...) then issue more shares for you to buy, but w/o averaging our chance to profit are all but dead.
The key is whether or not they have to raise a given amount in a tight time frame, and they sure as hell aren't sharing that information with us. The action does not look that way now. VFIN backs off the offer and even supports the bid when buying dries up. That could change, but who knows. We saw a mini 'death spiral' in late Oct/early Nov as the selling urgency increased. They may have been under a deadline with the Toyo purchase or with the aquisitions then.
WTVN is an example of what I'm talking about. Notice the volume increases exponentially as the price falls. The company did a r/s and repeated the process. The company did not die, but the shareholders sure experienced a 'death spiral' in their value.
Lets assume there is a fairly constant stream of new dollars(new investors and those averaging down) coming into the market each day(fruits of their marketing efforts). The company(through VFIN) can sell stock worth the value of those dollars (less the value of shares sold by longs liquidating) each day and still maintain the same pps. Now if the company has to raise more money than the pps break even level in order to meet a deadline, the pps will decline. Each day the pps falls at an ever increasing rate with an increasing number of shares sold -- "death spiral".
In the interest of avoiding the impression of hyperbole, we can call this phenomenon an "exponential volume increase leading to an asymptotic price decline". Since that's way too long to type, we can use the acronym EVILTAAPD.
Therefore, if the company is under a time deadline to raise funds we could see EVILTAAPD.
-------------------- Logic can protect you from the hazards of faith, hope and trust. Posts: 382 | From: California | Registered: May 2005
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posted
As some of you know, I exited a while back in order to maintain profit; however, I still have hopes for a recovery and so check in here from to time.
And, boy, am I glad...great, informative posts and useful dialog. Keep it up...one of the top threads on the board, imho
Just a quick update on PLNI. I have just completed SEMCO's workshop in Las Vegas, very detailed and informative. The SEMCO people are very polite and nice to work with. I also went on a tour visiting some of the locations where SEMCO product is installed.
I feel PLNI is on track and the audit is in the works and will be completed soon. No, I don't know when, but what is important the company is progressing nicely.
JT will get the job done and I feel good about the direction of the company. I know things don't happen as quickly as many of us would like but the foundation is there with PLNI.
I am not going to post anymore on the blogs because of liability reasons and don't want to give misinformation and would like to wish all the best in PLNI.
posted
Good Luck Downdraft. Semco looks like a real company and may provide some hope for investors as well. I've always felt Semco was too good a company to accept a privately financed non-dilutive takeover as JT has stated in PRs. I'm assuming that was just spin to sell shares.
If the Sems actually were given equity in PLNI(maybe warrants, preferred shares or options) they could put pressure on JT to limit dilution to takeovers and such and not to issuing himself more shares. With the stock down here or lower there could be a reasonable profit potential if they don't issue most of the remaining 2.8 billion available(as of 11/21/05 at least). That may be wishful thinking on my part but its the season for New Years wishes.
-------------------- Logic can protect you from the hazards of faith, hope and trust. Posts: 382 | From: California | Registered: May 2005
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posted
With all the talk of complaints to the SEC, where does that leave us? please advise honestly..gettin fed up with this stock and worrying about my investment..thinking it was all a big scam! promising the world and returning nothing. it does look a fantastic company when you read up about it, but when you look closer nobody seems to know anything, ie financials etc. audit news and all that jazz..whats goin on? does anyone know what the SEC will say?
Posts: 14 | From: UK | Registered: May 2005
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posted
Tempest... We are all waiting. The Pro's and Con's have been posted on this and other blogs...over and over and over again...No one really knows although some will try to convince folks they do...Until we get some concrete information from the company most of what you read is speculation...IMO Do your own DD and pull up a chair and wait with the rest of us...Good luck.
quote:Originally posted by TEMPEST: With all the talk of complaints to the SEC, where does that leave us? please advise honestly..gettin fed up with this stock and worrying about my investment..thinking it was all a big scam! promising the world and returning nothing. it does look a fantastic company when you read up about it, but when you look closer nobody seems to know anything, ie financials etc. audit news and all that jazz..whats goin on? does anyone know what the SEC will say?
Posts: 2660 | From: Pennyland USA | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by TEMPEST: With all the talk of complaints to the SEC, where does that leave us? please advise honestly..gettin fed up with this stock and worrying about my investment..thinking it was all a big scam! promising the world and returning nothing. it does look a fantastic company when you read up about it, but when you look closer nobody seems to know anything, ie financials etc. audit news and all that jazz..whats goin on? does anyone know what the SEC will say?
The lack of information makes this a difficult stock to handicap. It does not appear to be a total sham, i.e. there is a company there selling products and making deals. The problem is we are dealing with dishonest and crafty executives who are using shareholders to finance their needs through the sale of shares.
They crafted an elaborate stratagem that succeeding in convincing many shareholders that their authorized and outstanding shares were much less than the reality, and that they were retiring shares. Many believed there was a share buyback in the works that would reduce shares down toward 1 billion. The reality turns out to be a significant dilution that appears to be accelerating today.
Since we don't know their financing needs or timeline, it is a very difficult guessing game judging value. Some people have filed complaints with the SEC but its hard to tell if enough noise is being made to move a pink high enough in priority to get anything done soon.
My discussions with the SEC were not too encouraging. Ideally, they would ask the company to clear the air and press releases would soon flow, but that is not how the process works. If they decide the company's actions constitute a sufficient violation of shareholder trust or violation of law they can halt trading. Problem is, the halt would be for 10 trading days. It does not sound like there is a middle ground.
The best we can do as investors is to not only file complaints with the SEC, but make sure to contact the company and let them know we are doing this. They did relent and give out some updated share information, but only when pressure was applied.
Companies that aggressively market their shares and refuse to give out up to date share information can have their quotes blocked(no L2s, just delayed bid/ask) and a message posted stating the reason. That risk spurred them to give us information, the same thing can happen if they fear the SEC may halt trading. The company must be made aware when people file complaints. That could get them to voluntarily go for the lesser of evils, telling us the truth now.
Wish I could be more helpful, but we're all in this same boat.
BTW, there is talk on other boards that this selling is tax loss related. Most people do not wait until the last moment to take tax losses and its not likely many pink investors have big gains to offset since most pink stocks go down over time.
GLTA
-------------------- Logic can protect you from the hazards of faith, hope and trust. Posts: 382 | From: California | Registered: May 2005
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posted
Tempest... Stock has posted the same post over and over again...He's called Turek a liar thief in a hundred different ways...This is the speculation I mentioned from one side...
I'm sure if you look over the prior pages of this site you'll find the speculation from the other side....claiming Turek and his pals are the second coming...
No one really knows...do your own DD and make your own decision IMO...I'm averaged at .00682 and all are now free shares from swing trading since the spring...so I'm happy in that this stock moved in a way that I was able to do that...
Posts: 2660 | From: Pennyland USA | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Bearclaw: Tempest... Stock has posted the same post over and over again...He's called Turek a liar thief in a hundred different ways...This is the speculation I mentioned from one side...
I'm sure if you look over the prior pages of this site you'll find the speculation from the other side....claiming Turek and his pals are the second coming...
No one really knows...do your own DD and make your own decision IMO...I'm averaged at .00682 and all are now free shares from swing trading since the spring...so I'm happy in that this stock moved in a way that I was able to do that...
Bear, please refrain from slandering me.
What would be an example of a post where I said Turek was a liar? I don't believe I've said that, though I've been at a loss to explain his behavior.
Matt Maguire of Big Appple, yes. He lied when he told me the a/s had been 5 billion for at least five months, this about a week after the secret a/s in Wyoming that increased the a/s to 5 billion.
Indeed I have posted some speculation,but most of what I posted is independently verifiable. That includes the broken promises about audits, the lack of confirmation about promised semco and promold closings, a promised video tour that never materialized, the most recent PR whose content directly contradicts the misleading headline (about the ProMold acquisition being completed) etc. This is what I mean by "evidence." The above list is not speculation, it's corporate history, a record that can be accessed by everyone, and which accounts for the rational pps decline.
On the other, optimistic side, there is much more speculation,as there must be; the rosy scenarios, which as a bagholder I would welcome, depend on positive outcomes that have not yet materialized.
If you want to see me repeat the long list of PLNI's failings, a good way to produce it is to misrepresent what I have actually said.
Posts: 610 | From: DC Metro area | Registered: Jun 2005
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Hey Lil...Jelly... Welcome to the rollar coaster...I hope you folks timed it right...That was the second hit above the ask...same amount of shares at .0044 as 11:02 this morning...
Posts: 2660 | From: Pennyland USA | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
I think you asking that is a little out of line Lil. LOL If I had 10K to spend on one stock, I think it'd be somewhere else lol
Posts: 1632 | From: NJ | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Bearclaw: State... I don't see you mentioned in my post...Interesting you would incorporate yourself and your views from that???
Unless you are both Stockhunter and State780...now that would be misleading...
Yikes, my apologies. Read too fast.
That being said, stock has provided the most original DD on this board, and truth be told has been less repetitious than me.
Posts: 610 | From: DC Metro area | Registered: Jun 2005
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Apology accepted... Stock has provided the most posts of the same slant of PLNI...that being that Turek is a liar and a thief...and...interestingly that agrees with your point of view...
All I was telling Tempest is that NO ONE KNOWS WHAT IS GOING ON...NO ONE!!! and told him to do his own DD and make his decision to... Buy...Sell...or Hold
Posts: 2660 | From: Pennyland USA | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Of course no one knows, because the company hasn't benn forthright and forthcoming with facts. However, the preponderance of evidence would lead a reasonable person to believe that the PPS is suffering from dilution.
-------------------- A million seconds is 13 days. A billion seconds is 31 years. Posts: 4893 | From: Burbank IL USA | Registered: Feb 2004
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