posted
Yeah oil up because Libya is debating on cutting production.
"Meanwhile, the head of Libya's national oil company said the country may cut crude production because the oil market is well supplied, according to news reports."
Saudi Arabi said the same thing about demand!! I don't care what the media says this is not a supply and demand rise. Supply is fine its that refiners are not buying enough!
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quote:Originally posted by osubucks30: Yeah oil up because Libya is debating on cutting production.
"Meanwhile, the head of Libya's national oil company said the country may cut crude production because the oil market is well supplied, according to news reports."
Saudi Arabi said the same thing about demand!! I don't care what the media says this is not a supply and demand rise. Supply is fine its that refiners are not buying enough!
Good point osubucks30. But it kinda harkens back to a post by glassman a few days ago. About Exxon selling all of their company owned gas stations. What do they see to make them sell? What are they up to?
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
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posted
The government is going to save all these banks!! The CEO's of these companies will continue to rake in millions!! OUR TAX DOLLARS USED SO THE RICH WILL CONTINUE TO GET THEIR $$$!!!!!! Save the people who created the whole situation. GOT TO LOVE THE GOOD OLD USA!!
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quote:Originally posted by osubucks30: Now the only question is will it be a depression?
i think it already is...
i think the American people (in spite of the white house and congress) are actually holding it all together, we've done as asked and spent our money and keep working even tho we seem to be getting treated like crap...
how much more of this should we put up with?
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
The CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll, which surveyed more than 1,000 Americans over the weekend, cited common measures of the economic pain of the 1930s:
25% unemployment rate; widespread bank failures; and millions of Americans homeless and unable to feed their families. In response, 21% of those polled say that a depression is very likely and another 38% say it is somewhat likely.
The poll also found that 29% feel a depression is not very likely, while 13% believe it is not likely at all.
But economists, even many who feel current economic risks are dire, generally don't believe another depression is likely.
"We've been in a recession all year and it's going to get worse," said Anirvan Banerji, director of research for the Economic Cycle Research Institute. "We're going from a relatively mild recession to a more painful recession. But we're a long, long way from a depression."
A survey taken last week by the National Association of Business Economists asked members what would happen if the $700 billion bailout that passed Friday fails to fix frozen credit markets. The consensus forecast of those economists was that, even if continued problems choke off credit to businesses and consumers, unemployment would rise to just 7% in the second quarter of next year .
Other economists recently contacted by CNNMoney.com said that the unemployment rate could rise as high as 10% to 12% next year if the bailout does not work. While that could be roughly double the current 6.1% unemployment rate, it would be only half of the worst rate seen in the Great Depression of the 1930s.
What defines a depression? Banerji's worst-case scenario sees unemployment topping out at just under 10%. That's one of the key reasons that he thinks a true depression is unlikely.
"A depression rate would imply more than doubling or tripling the current unemployment rate," he said.
The Great Depression also saw the gross domestic product, the broad measure of the nation's economic activity, plunge by 13% in 1932.
The NABE survey forecast that GDP will drop 1.1% in the fourth quarter of 2008 if the bailout does not get credit flowing again, and another 0.5% in the first quarter of next year. The economists surveyed by CNNMoney.com said they could foresee a drop of 2% to 4% in a worst-case scenario.
Part of the reason for the far less severe economic pain expected this time are the social safety net programs - including Social Security, unemployment insurance and insurance on bank deposits - that were not in place at the start of the Great Depression.
And experts believe that the Federal Reserve and other officials made many policy mistakes during the Depression that are not likely to be repeated. In fact, the Fed at that time kept lending tight, while today's Fed is pumping hundreds of billions of dollars into the banking system to try to restart lending and spur economic activity.
"The fact is that central banks around the globe will move heaven and earth to avoid having a depression," said Banerji.
Still, other findings of the CNN poll were more in agreement with those of top economists.
The poll found 84% of Americans polled believe that economic conditions are somewhat or very poor, with a majority, 53%, now believing the economy is very poor. That's not far off from the two-thirds of NABE economists who believe the economy is now in a recession or will enter one by the end of this year.
The view of the economy is much bleaker than a comparable CNN/USA Today poll found during the last economic downturn at the start of the decade. During the recession of 2001, only one-third to one-half of those polled felt economic conditions were somewhat or very poor.
Unemployment continued to rise after the recession ended in late 2001, and not surprisingly the view of the economy continued to deteriorate. But at its worst, in a February 2003 poll, only two-thirds of those surveyed described the economy as somewhat or very poor. Just 25% of those surveyed at that time described the economy as very poor, or less than half the level who believe that today.
In addition, the CNN poll released Monday found that 36% believe the current crisis in the nation's financial sector will affect them immediately, while another 19% expect to be affected within the next year. Only 8% believe they will never be affected by the crisis.
Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke have frequently warned in recent weeks that the credit crisis would be felt on Main Street, not just on Wall Street.
And Banerji said that the increasingly grim view of the economy will by itself lead to cutbacks in spending by both consumers and businesses. That in turn will result in greater job losses and more economic pain.
"The fact that the majority of people believe we are going into a depression ensures that the recession will get worse," Banerji said.
First Published: October 6, 2008: 1:18 PM ET
Bailout: Will it work?
How bad will it get?
Jobs: Worst in 5 years
Dow falls below 10,000
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.
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posted
One thing that this economic mess shows. My contention that the MBA is a crime upon society and the world of scholarship seems well founded viewed with the fact that dubya has one. Any fool can get one by paying for the tuition and being beyond around 27 and it isn't a question of what school granted it. Dubya's was from Harvard and look what good it did us?
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: a few years ago, we moved to one of these big red blotches as part of a redevelopment program.
Nationally, 12.4 percent of residents are considered to be in poverty. �In Poverty� means that a given person falls below the poverty threshold assigned by the U.S. Census Bureau. Please see our chart topic on Poverty for a discussion of poverty thresholds.
Examination of the map shows, however, that this 12.4 percent is a misleading representation of poverty status across the United States. Poverty is considerably more prevalent in the southern states. In a clear majority of counties in the South, the proportion of persons in poverty is higher than the national rate. http://www.censusscope.org/us/map_poverty.html
it's hardly noticable here.... the crime rate is rising some..
i bet in 2010 the map looks quite different.
interestingly, you can see significant correlation between red state voting and poverty.
our drop out rates in high school are astronomical here too...
posted
Even if we manage to avoid a depression in the next year or two, what are the unintended consequences of spending trillions of dollars we don't have on these bailouts? What kind of bubble will that create and will we have runaway inflation due to flooding the country with dollars that were created out of thin air?
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posted
Whatever, "are the unintended consequences of spending trillions of dollars we don't have on these bailouts", it cannot be worse than what submissive adherence to the religion of the free market has already given us.
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quote:Whatever, "are the unintended consequences of spending trillions of dollars we don't have on these bailouts", it cannot be worse than what submissive adherence to the religion of the free market has already given us.
Yes, bdgee, things can get a LOT worse!
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posted
Close Window Circuit City files for bankruptcy protection Monday, November 10, 2008 RICHMOND, Va. - Circuit City Stores Inc. filed for bankruptcy protection Monday, heading into the busy holiday season hoping the move will help the nation's second-biggest electronics retailer will be able to survive.
The company said it made the filing because it was facing pressure from vendors who threatened to withhold products during the holiday period. The company also said it cut 700 more jobs at its headquarters, after announcing a week ago that it would close 20 percent of its stores and lay off thousands of workers.
Circuit City filed for Chapter 11 protection, which will allow it to keep operating while it develops a reorganization plan. Its Canadian operations also filed for similar protection.
In court documents, Chief Financial Officer Bruce H. Besanko cited three factors: erosion of vendor confidence, decreased liquidity and the global economic crisis.
"Without immediate relief, the company is concerned that it will not receive goods for Black Friday and the upcoming holiday season, which could cause irreparable harm to the company and its stakeholders," Besanko said in the filing.
Shares in Richmond, Va.-based Circuit City fell 14 cents, or about 56 percent, to 11 cents on Monday before being halted.
Circuit City, which has had only one profitable quarter in the past year, has faced significant declines in traffic and heightened competition from rival Best Buy Co. and others. The company laid off about 3,400 retail employees last year and replaced them with lower-paid workers, a move analysts said could backfire, hurting morale and driving away customers.
While the retail industry overall is facing what's expected to be the weakest holiday season in decades, Circuit City's struggles have intensified as nervous consumers spend less and credit has become tighter.
Circuit City is a well-known brand and could re-emerge from bankruptcy, Stifel Nicolaus & Co. analyst David Schick said in a note to investors. "We believe the marketplace has a slot for a higher-end chain with a commissioned sales force," he said.
But Stephen Lubben, a professor at Seton Hall Law School, said Circuit City's survival depends on whether its creditors work with the company "or whether they think they're a lost cause and cut them off permanently."
JPMorgan analyst Christopher Horvers agreed, saying it boiled down to merchandise. "If they can get inventory into the stores, I can think they'll remain competitive."
The company's biggest creditors are its vendors: Hewlett-Packard has a $118.8 million claim followed by Samsung ($115.9 million), Sony ($60 million), Zenith ($41.2 million) and Toshiba ($17.9 million). Smaller creditors include GPS navigation system maker Garmin, Nikon, Lenovo, Eastman Kodak and Mitsubishi.
Deutsche Bank analyst Mike Baker told investors that consumers learning about Circuit City's bankruptcy may go elsewhere because of a lack of confidence in the company.
At a Circuit City Warehouse Store already slated for closure in Milwaukee, Courtney Bergeron, 29, said he heard the news about the company and figured he should see if there were any deals for flat-screen TVs.
Although he saw some discounts - about 15 percent off televisions at least 32 inches wide - Bergeron figured he should wait.
"On Black Friday, they're probably going to be lower than this," he said.
Bergeron and his friend, Bertha Harris, also 29, said they hadn't shopped much at Circuit City over the years. He said Circuit City's selection was limited, so he ended up buying more electronics from Best Buy and discounter Wal-Mart Stores Inc.
Harris said she was always dissatisfied with service at Circuit City. When she asked questions the workers couldn't answer them on their own, she said.
"They knew as much as I knew about things," she said, adding it wasn't much.
Circuit City announced a week ago it planned to close 155 of its more than 700 U.S. stores by Dec. 31. It is laying off about 17 percent of its domestic work force, which could affect up to 7,300 people.
Horvers said the reorganization could help the company get out of leases for certain bad store locations. Schick said that had been one of the company's main issues.
Circuit City "had many problems in the end - but all began, in our view, with holding on to 1980s real estate too long," he wrote.
The company had said last week that it planned to work with landlords to renegotiate leases, lower rent or terminate agreements.
Horvers also found it encouraging that the company was able to secure financing. Circuit City said it had lined up $1.1 billion in loans to provide working capital while it is in bankruptcy protection. That replaces a $1.3 billion asset-backed loan it had been using.
Loans to operate while in bankruptcy are called debtor-in-possession, or DIP, loans.
"That's a big DIP in the current market," said John Penn, a partner at law firm Haynes & Boone who is not involved in the case. "To secure that size DIP now is quite a achievement. With the news of the cuts last week - and vendors wanting to know they can get paid - having a recognizable source like a DIP can calm a lot of vendor concerns."
The company said it had $3.4 billion in assets and $2.32 billion in liabilities as of Aug. 31.
Circuit City posted a wider second-quarter loss in September with a 13 percent decline in sales at stores open at least a year. The company has been under new leadership since late September when Chief Executive Philip J. Schoonover agreed to step down.
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AP Business Writer Vinnee Tong reported from New York. AP Business Writer Emily Fredrix contributed to this report from Milwaukee.
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.
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