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Author Topic: Recession! How bad will it be?
The Bigfoot
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Find out soon enough I guess. Honestly...I am begining to think all the craziness and flux going on right now might just help us pull out of it sooner once the panic has worn off.

Oh...and in case you are interested...

Total cost for the WAR to date (This is everything put together) 3.2 Trillion. And here's the doozey...that ain't including tax.

I heard this one from a reliable source though I don't have documentation to back it up.

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No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues.

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rimasco
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quote:
Originally posted by The Bigfoot:
Find out soon enough I guess. Honestly...I am begining to think all the craziness and flux going on right now might just help us pull out of it sooner once the panic has worn off.

Oh...and in case you are interested...

Total cost for the WAR to date (This is everything put together) 3.2 Trillion. And here's the doozey...that ain't including tax.

I heard this one from a reliable source though I don't have documentation to back it up.

I heard the same figure... But do we really get taxed on that as well?

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"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"

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bond006
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even the german bordello's are closeing down now you know it's getting bad
Posts: 6008 | From: phoenix az | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
PCola77
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What do you mean by that doesn't include tax? What tax?

quote:
Originally posted by The Bigfoot:
Find out soon enough I guess. Honestly...I am begining to think all the craziness and flux going on right now might just help us pull out of it sooner once the panic has worn off.

Oh...and in case you are interested...

Total cost for the WAR to date (This is everything put together) 3.2 Trillion. And here's the doozey...that ain't including tax.

I heard this one from a reliable source though I don't have documentation to back it up.


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Oddmanout
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It want get too bad.

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Jesus died for your sins and the Soldier for your freedom...enough said.

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T e x
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It want pretty bad, already...

gasoline? ^

electricity ^

gas? ^

copper? ^

wages? flat(line)

*********************

Glass: nice ideas on the cacti, sorghum, and medians--particularly like the idea of "landscaping" roadways with pre-fuel...

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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buckstalker
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It's gonna want worse...

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It's all in the timing...

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T e x
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIeZJyvlYA8&feature=related

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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The Bigfoot
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The 3.2 Trillion dollar figure is based off of testimony to congress from Nobel-winner economist Joseph Stigiitz.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/03/20/2195029.htm

Read this article...it is enlightening as to how that money is being spent.

http://salem-news.com/articles/march062008/hank_oped_3-6-08.php

Still looking for tax related info.

Like I said...didn't have documentation at the time.

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No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues.

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bond006
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It looks bad now only an idiot could look at the figures and come out with an answer that don't look pretty bad.

The old saying it is a slight ression when your neighbor is unemployed but when you loose your job its a depression.

What I judge the economy on is my neighbors. I happen to live in a neighborhood that is upper middle class lots of high income business people when the economy is good they make fantasic money.

Now lots have sold there homes and closed there doors on there business and there is something I have never seen forclousers all over the place. One right next store the family claimed to be millionaire status two years ago.Lots of liquid assetts cash and gone now.

I think this has yet a bottom to find

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Ace of Spades
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This is a silly thread...what a waste

We are not in a recession and the US economy is the best it's every been....

mark this post...things are gonna be great this year!!!

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bond006
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If it so great why are we getting a tax rebate that our government has to barrow
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classified
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quote:
Originally posted by Ace of Spades:
This is a silly thread...what a waste

We are not in a recession and the US economy is the best it's every been....

mark this post...things are gonna be great this year!!!

"the US economy is the best it's every been...."

Your joking right? [Eek!] [Eek!] [Eek!]

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by Ace of Spades:
This is a silly thread...what a waste

We are not in a recession and the US economy is the best it's every been....

mark this post...things are gonna be great this year!!!

LOL..

"things" have already been about as bad as they can be without a crash. the only reason we haven't had a total meltDOWn is that the FED is buying all the "bad" paper offa anybody and everybody.

the other shoe is being juggled instead of dropped, but it IS already in the air....

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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classified
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Glassman I will also point this out:

 -

In my town business is terrible...lots of people want to sell there houses...no buyers.

Lots of investors have there money in propertys...but the real-estate market is NOT liquid!!!

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glassman
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Cramer is going off on UBS right now. he's put pix of the CEO of UBS on the wall and throwing eggs at it...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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BooDog
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LMAO!! Glass.

Good chart Weazel. Even with (or especially with) the feds dilution I doubt we've seen the end of it. Nice little hiccup this week though.

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All post are my opinion. Do your own DD. Who's clicking your buy/sell button!?

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glassman
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apparently Cramer picked UBS as a buy back in Oct.

i guess he assumed UBS was not going to take the level three accounting write-downs, because they had been keeping better books than alot of the others...


there are two separate issues at play now, one is the sub-prime mortgage issue which everybody talks about, but there was also an accounting rules change that is hurting the financials even worse, and everybody just "talks around" it and pretends it's all sub-prime..

many if these big write-downs are nothing more than an old accounting trick being phased out of the books.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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IWISHIHAD
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"High oil prices paining U.S. consumers is a key topic of Vice President Dick Cheney's talks Friday with Saudi King Abdullah, yet it's unclear whether Cheney will ask the Saudis to increase production to bring down prices at the pump".


They never thought about this before? [Roll Eyes]

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by IWISHIHAD:
"High oil prices paining U.S. consumers is a key topic of Vice President Dick Cheney's talks Friday with Saudi King Abdullah, yet it's unclear whether Cheney will ask the Saudis to increase production to bring down prices at the pump".


They never thought about this before? [Roll Eyes]

there has been no oil shortage.

the "forces" that drove oil from 60$ to 110$ are basically traders (playing on security issues), the fall of the US dollar, and (oddly enough?) gasoline supply disruptions...

from 50$ on up? the price of gasoline has LED the price of oil and not vice versa.... refinery explosions/fires, maintenance shutdowns and seasonal blending "problems" have runup the price of gasoline over and over. oil just followed it.


if commoditites traders had been held to stricter margin standards? and the refiners were more compettitive with each other? we would probably be paying 60 to 70$ per barrel of oil...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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IWISHIHAD
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Agree.

But the statement is rather a stupid one considering Cheney's title. If there was or is a problem with production from the Saudis wouldn't most people that have a little business sense think of this possible easy solution before thinking of war etc.

Actually maybe it isn't such a stupid statement considering the source.

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IWISHIHAD
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Even better yet how about Cheney asking the American oil giants to help the economy by lowering prices since we all know they are part of this monopoly that helps control the price of oil.
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glassman
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It's pretty complicated, but for some reason? Former Shell and Flour executive Phillip Carrol was assigned the job of determining how to deal with Iraq's oil in '03...

he came in with the invasion.

his public decision was to nationalise the oil feilds.

however? it hasn't been working out that way. there's alot of opinions available on what happened, but Greenspan came right out and said "I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil."


IMO? Cheney was trying to make HAL into the next big oil giant, competing right alongside of EXX and Shell and BP....

they decided not to allow that... and everything went to chit from there on out....

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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classified
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T/A of the banking sector:

 -

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Oddmanout
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The economy is much better than when Carter was in office. [BadOne]

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Jesus died for your sins and the Soldier for your freedom...enough said.

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glassman
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at least Carter wasn't responsible for how bad it was tho.
you can place the blame for most of the problems right on Bush and Cheney's doorstep.

the worst part is that they are both profiting offa this mess.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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bond006
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When Carter was in office the country was much better off and we had the means to recover.

Now the job that breathe life into an economy have been outsourced and this idiot Bush gave them tax breaks to go do it.

maybe we will recover if we all eat more hamburgers every day fast food seems to be the up and coming center of economic developement any more

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bond006
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When Carter was in office the country was much better off and we had the means to recover.

Now the job that breathe life into an economy have been outsourced and this idiot Bush gave them tax breaks to go do it.

maybe we will recover if we all eat more hamburgers every day fast food seems to be the up and coming center of economic developement any more

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glassman
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we need to build brand new state of the art steel mills here.

January Steel Shipments Up 7.3 Percent From Last Year
03/17/2008- WASHINGTON, D.C. – The American Iron and Steel Institute (AISI) reported today that for the month of January 2008, U.S. steel mills shipped 9,246,000 net tons, a 7.3 percent increase from the 8,614,000 net tons shipped in January 2007 and an 8.8 percent increase from the 8,495,000 net tons shipped in the previous month, December 2007.


http://www.steel.org//AM/Template.cfm?Section=Home

March 20, 2008, 12:13PM
Sector Snap: US Steel Companies Gain NEW YORK — Shares of several U.S. steel producers rose Thursday as key non-U.S. rivals retreated following an analyst upgrade of United Steel Corp.

United States Steel Corp. led the sector with a gain of $4.39, or 4 percent, to $114.25 in afternoon trading. The stock was upgraded to "Buy" from "Neutral" by Goldman Sachs analyst Aldo Mazzaferro.

The analyst cited higher-than-expected U.S. steel prices. "Global markets appear to reflect a physical steel shortage, in our view," he wrote in a note to clients.

"Strong global demand trends are trumping U.S. weakness, and the net-short U.S. market needs to raise imports, being already very low on supply," the analyst wrote.

Non U.S. producers, however, were struggling. ArcelorMittal, the world's largest steel maker, fell 94 cents to $74, BHP Billiton Ltd. sank $2.01, or 3.1 percent, to $61.98, and Rio Tinto PLC gave up $13.50, or 3.4 percent, to $382.


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/fn/5635673.html

China and India are both in need of steel...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Pagan
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
we need to build brand new state of the art steel mills here.

January Steel Shipments Up 7.3 Percent From Last Year
03/17/2008- WASHINGTON, D.C. – The American Iron and Steel Institute (AISI) reported today that for the month of January 2008, U.S. steel mills shipped 9,246,000 net tons, a 7.3 percent increase from the 8,614,000 net tons shipped in January 2007 and an 8.8 percent increase from the 8,495,000 net tons shipped in the previous month, December 2007.


http://www.steel.org//AM/Template.cfm?Section=Home

March 20, 2008, 12:13PM
Sector Snap: US Steel Companies Gain NEW YORK — Shares of several U.S. steel producers rose Thursday as key non-U.S. rivals retreated following an analyst upgrade of United Steel Corp.

United States Steel Corp. led the sector with a gain of $4.39, or 4 percent, to $114.25 in afternoon trading. The stock was upgraded to "Buy" from "Neutral" by Goldman Sachs analyst Aldo Mazzaferro.

The analyst cited higher-than-expected U.S. steel prices. "Global markets appear to reflect a physical steel shortage, in our view," he wrote in a note to clients.

"Strong global demand trends are trumping U.S. weakness, and the net-short U.S. market needs to raise imports, being already very low on supply," the analyst wrote.

Non U.S. producers, however, were struggling. ArcelorMittal, the world's largest steel maker, fell 94 cents to $74, BHP Billiton Ltd. sank $2.01, or 3.1 percent, to $61.98, and Rio Tinto PLC gave up $13.50, or 3.4 percent, to $382.


http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/fn/5635673.html

China and India are both in need of steel...

I wholeheartedly disagree. We need to invest in technology. Steel, like fossil fuels, is a finite asset. The US needs to invest in the future, not the stodgy pidgeon holes of the past.

JMO

Ps: China and India can fend for themselves.

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bond006
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We need heavy industry as much as we need Hi tech.

The country still builds buildings and bridges and

as matter of fact there is 20 years of work rebuilding our infrastrcture. We need both and we need jobs here that pay a living wage.

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by bond006:
We need heavy industry as much as we need Hi tech.

The country still builds buildings and bridges and

as matter of fact there is 20 years of work rebuilding our infrastrcture. We need both and we need jobs here that pay a living wage.

at least 20 years...

that bridge collapse in Minnesota was just a warning sign...

is "hi-tech" a euphemism for sitting at a desk?

i am talking about hi-tech steel mills, not re-opening the same ones that went out of business because it was more "profitable" to raid the co's assets and pension funds than it was to re-fit them...

China and India need to be OUR CUSTOMERS not our cheap labor pool.

there are many Americans that LOVE working hard and sweating, they do not want to be relegated to "customer service" at Lowes and Home Depot.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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warning signs:

Officials Close Steel Bridge in Minnesota After Bent Plates Are Found

By SUSAN SAULNY
Published: March 22, 2008

CHICAGO — A 51-year-old steel truss bridge over the Mississippi River in St. Cloud, Minn., was abruptly shut down on Thursday after inspectors found that its gusset places were bending — a problem similar to the one believed to have critically weakened the Interstate 35W bridge that collapsed in Minneapolis in August.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/22/us/22bridge.html?ref=us


Oregon:
In making the case for replacing the Sellwood Bridge, Multnomah County commissioners have cited one number time and again: 2.

That's the cracked bridge's "sufficiency rating," on a 100-point scale. The 2 makes it tied with two other bridges for the lowest score in the state. The 2 also is such an apparently flunking grade that some county commissioners say the bridge should be shut down.



March 18, 2008, 12:03 pm
Trying to Head Off a Highway Disaster

By John Holusha
There were cracks in the bridge carrying Interstate 35 across the Mississippi River in Minneapolis, but nobody paid much attention to them until the bridge fell into the river last August, killing seven people.

Possibly as a result, a busy two-mile stretch of the elevated Interstate 95 in Philadelphia was closed today to repair a crack in a reinforced concrete support pillar that had grown ominously large in recent months. The highway, which ordinarily carries 190,000 vehicles a day, will be closed for at least two days, snarling traffic on other routes in the city.
The jagged crack had grown from about a half-inch wide and four feet long last October to two inches wide and eight feet long.


it's everywhere... there are thousands of small bridges all over the country that are in desperate need of replacement

we are in a state of decay.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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Bridge repair to begin Monday
March 21, 2008
StoryChat Post Comment
Star-Gazette

Advertisement
The City of Elmira plans to complete its repairs to the Walnut Street bridge beginning Monday, officials announced this afternoon.

The bridge will be open to traffic, however, motorists will be restricted to one lane while workers attach plates and bolts in areas where the cross-section has been diminished, as well as some structural welding.

http://www.star-gazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080321/UPDATE/303210045

Bridge repair set back

Harsh winter has pushed McCleary work into the summer

By Brian Reisinger
Wausau Daily Herald

The Wisconsin Department of Transportation does not expect to open all four lanes of the McCleary Bridge until late June, despite promoting the bridge as part of an alternate route during upcoming work on Highway 51/29.

http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080315/WDH0101/803 150536/1981

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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jordanreed
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I would not use that bridge until it was completely finished!

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jordan

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