posted
Even if, as Glass very well-researched and presented. No doubt on-line? Thanks for that point Glass and I hope I actually answered what you were aski
you mean we are like elephants because they pick up old bones? i disagree...
some people just have to take each others toys...
people are mean...
some people just need killin'....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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You despise me, and yet you follow me around like little sheep. You are free to leave this thread and yet you remain; free to start other threads, but you persist in following me around, quaint but utterly unnecessary. You must struggle with OCD, but the thread calls for a different topic than amateurish psychological efforts on your parts.
He is a three time Nobel Peace Prize nominee and recipient of the Niwano and World Methodist Peace Awards. But he grew out of less auspicious experiences. Elias Chacour was born in 1940 in Biram, Lower Galilee of the British Mandate of Palestine. It was a pastoral life in Lower Galilee and until 1947 Elias remembers climbing the olive tree in the front yard, tracing the shapes of bark with tiny fingers. But events were erupting around the world that would turn pastoral Galilee into turmoil. It was turmoil so severe that little Elias would not escape it. Exciting news came in 1947 when Michael Chacour, Elias’ father, came home and called the family together. They would soon have special company. They would celebrate with a lamb! A lamb! Michael and his family grew up in the Melkite, or Greek Catholic, Church, and were deeply spiritual Christians. They planned to kill the lamb to celebrate new neighbors, called Zionists, who would arrive shortly. In an interview Abuna Elias Chacour credited his father’s Christian resolve to forgive with shaping his personal work for peace. Michael explains to his family that the Zionists need a safe place to heal after the horrible tragedy visited upon the Jewish people during World War II. And so soldiers came, they celebrated, and a year passed. May 15, 1948, saw the transition from Palestine to Israel and hundreds of thousands of Palestinians became refugees. It was not until the summer of 1949 that Michael Chacour’s belief in the fellowship Arab and Jew should share would be shaken. The residents of Biram were told to leave; the Chacours became refugees. But perhaps the most traumatic occurrence in Elias Chacour’s early childhood happened after the residents of Biram were forced out of their homes. They settled in the abandoned town of Gish, a town of Palestinian Christians that was strangely empty. No one knew where the inhabitants went until the Biram boys were playing soccer one day and they found a hand sticking up from what was to be called a mass grave. The residents of Gish had been found. Sadly, this would not be Elias Chacour’s last brush with atrocity and/or war crimes. In fact within the same summer, the Israeli Defense Force gathered the men and older boys up and dropped them unceremoniously over the border with Jordan. They would be reunited but not before Michael, with Elias’ three brothers, Rusah, Musah and Chacour, journeyed through Jordan and Syria to get back home. It was a trip in which Michael learned what Arab brothers and sisters thought of “dirty Palestinians.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
You despise me, and yet you follow me around like little sheep. You are free to leave this thread and yet you remain; free to start other threads, but you persist in following me around, quaint but utterly unnecessary. You must struggle with OCD, but the thread calls for a different topic than amateurish psychological efforts on your parts.
but we are here to help you groffon... and i most definitely don't despise you...
i am concerned that you are allowed to vote tho
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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Following several other trials the Biram villagers win a victory in the Israeli Supreme Court in December of 1951. The troops are ordered to give the town back to the citizens. They are invited to return to Biram on December 25. As the villagers drawn near, reaching the hilltops around the village, Israeli soldiers open fire with tanks and cannons, leveling Biram. To this day, Abuna Chacour seems most relaxed when he visits the ruins of Biram. Elias must hear this news in Haifa where the Bishop has placed him in school. Michael’s prayer in the situation was: “Forgive them.” More than ever Elias longs for the solitary time with God. Elias and Faraj meet when school resumes in fall, 1952 and they become lifelong friends. He describes this time in a chapter called “The Narrowing Way.” Both boys would be sent to a “minor” seminary in Nazareth, called St. Joseph’s, after all they were 13 or 14 at the time. Unfortunately, Elias and Faraj did not see any opportunity to go to the university which did not take “their kind.” Nazareth marked a renewal of spirituality for Elias as opportunities for solitude presented themselves. God shaped him through his time at the minor seminary, increasing his awareness of a wider world in need of help. He would later write, “Being a servant of God meant more than drifting above the Earth’s struggles in an other-worldly realm like some pale figure in an icon.” Faraj and Elias would spend their high school years at St. Joseph’s and while it was a good experience, they received disappointing news: the Melkite seminary in the Jordanian section of Jerusalem would not accept “dirty Palestinians.” How can one serve God when the world closes doors? But the Bishop arranged for them to enter seminary at St. Sulpice in Paris. This would be a time of discernment and growth for Elias and Faraj. Neither had been outside the Galilee before. Once in Paris, they learned a great deal, while contending with unfortunate stereotypes. It should come as no surprise that dispossessed people in the Middle East would be de-humanized through stereotypes in much the same way minorities throughout the world have been. The dispossessed fare no better in the United States. The sentiments expressed by Abuna were followed up with a comment about Western Christianity. “We Palestinians may be materially poor but we are spiritually rich. The Western Church is materially prosperous but spiritually bankrupt.”
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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Nothin better than good grilled peppers and steak. To continue with who now Archbishop Elias Chacour is:
The theology that Elias learned would be put to the test in 1965 as he and Faraj graduated. By this time, Elias Chacour came to see the Beatitudes in light of Isaiah’s joining of righteousness and justice. These thoughts were echoing in his mind as he arrived at the Melkite Church in Ibillin. On his arrival, “The Responsible” met him at the door, greeting him with, “Go away! We don’t want you here!” Thus began what is now 40 years of ministry in this village.
Truly Abuna’s first opportunity to work for reconciliation began in his church. Brothers would not speak to each other, threatened each others’ lives. The church was broken down, the Christian community shattered between Melkite, Orthodox and Catholic. Then an idea formed for one very important Palm Sunday. He locked the door of the sanctuary and refused to let the congregation leave until they were reconciled. The same year Abuna Chacour begins more education, this time at Hebrew University, where he finds support and nurture.
The ploy of the locked doors worked and ignited such passion that the church was transformed. That transformation spread throughout the town. His ministry grows and thrives with the arrival and support of Bishop Raya. Bishop Raya also nurtures a seed that has been growing in Abuna Chacour’s heart for a long time: education for Arab/Palestinian children, youth and adults. In 1968 the Mariam Bawardi Kindergarten starts using Abuna’s bedroom and kitchen. Where does Elias sleep? In his yellow Volkswagon!
On August 13, 1972, Abuna Chacour coordinates a march into Jerusalem using the same path as the 1967 Victory parade. Persons from Hebrew University, Muslim, Druze, Christian and Jewish supporters participate meeting and they meet at the Knesset with other supporters. It took months to plan and led to Abuna taking a vacation in Europe. While there he met with the Pax Christi and Princess Beatrix.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
All right, all right , all right already I give.
I told Griff there was no way he could get you guys to go an entire weekend without creating a new Bush Bashing topic, and that he could not get you distracted enough to not comment on the Current Bush threads less than 3 times throughout the weekend. I could not post because it would be too easy for me to bait you. Well I'm throwing in the towel.
You guys dived off the cliff head first.
-------------------- Thanks Matto. Thanks Juice. Posts: 2945 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2006
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I know, wasn't that pretty much letter perfect predictability, bro Could have called that from 150 miles away, which I guess I did. Course it means I'm a whole bunch of obnoxious names to these folks, but you know, Bush and Clinton, neither of them found their way into a new thread. Is that cool or what? I told you: peace-building sometimes begins with getting them to hate something else more, shifting the focus of their rage.
You know, bro' I been laughing all weekend about this. I was starting to break down a few times nearly telling them, but in the end had to see if I still had it. Boy howdy, and I thought I should have "guppy" stamped on MY forehead. LOL, LOL, oh just a good gut ole laugh inserted here folks.
First the bait: I'm looking forward to having the next two days, just as innocent as could be.
Then the distraction: political thread, religious thread and the throw away "Peace-building" topic.
Now the fun: all the insults, the amateur psychology. This was a blast y'all. We must do this again sometime. Thanks for being such good sports.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Johnwayne: All right, all right , all right already I give.
I told Griff there was no way he could get you guys to go an entire weekend without creating a new Bush Bashing topic, and that he could not get you distracted enough to not comment on the Current Bush threads less than 3 times throughout the weekend. I could not post because it would be too easy for me to bait you. Well I'm throwing in the towel.
You guys dived off the cliff head first.
really? you must a be worse judge of character than your brother then, quite an accomplishment....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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Is that cool or what? I told you: peace-building sometimes begins with getting them to hate something else more, shifting the focus of their rage
egocentrism... we've been observing your ravings and wondering how long before the men in white suits arrive....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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Now the fun: all the insults, the amateur psychology. This was a blast y'all. We must do this again sometime. Thanks for being such good sports. your chuckles sound hollow coming from that closet griffo...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
All in good clean fun! You all were so determined, you walked past every hint, into every minefield. And what was the harm, except a few spilled beers if I remember one of your posts.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Griffon: All in good clean fun! You all were so determined, you walked past every hint, into every minefield. And what was the harm, except a few spilled beers if I remember one of your posts.
posted
"somebody feigning high principles: somebody who pretends to have admirable principles, beliefs, or feelings but behaves otherwise"
Oh the principles are there, and the behavior's there, but a good ole fashioned practical joke was what we all needed to lighten up. Coulda cut the air in these boards with a knife. Now it's all fun. and no one got hurt, all the taunts you directed at me are par for the course, given the prank. No harm no foul.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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oh i could care less about your childish bets...
i read your posts cuz because i am lookin' for something specific...
too bad it isn't there...
i did challenge you early on griffo, and you do remeber cusz you referenced it...
never let on that you don't know what they so desparately want you to know... yuo'lllet tehm down and they'll do bad things to you...
gordon bennett took the weekend off so the bet is kindof lame anyway... he's the real force behind the Bush posts...
the bet just demonstrates why the church is screwed up anyway... politics and religion?you think what we want you to think..cuz we don't friggin know any more than you do....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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"you are having fun at other peoples expense,well, thats not at all a noble practice."
What expense? What are you out? You take this way too seriously Jordan, if you're not going to see the humor in this. I'm tense? I'm tense? You guys were ready to jump down my throat like you'd been unleashed to have at me.
I mean take a look, you argued with me on two threads all weekend long, cursed me, labelled me, everything else and here I was saying: "You are welcome to start other threads. You are welcome to post elsewhere. Oh this is some fun. Oh you'll find out what I'm up to soon." Did I not give you adequate opportunities to exit those two threads? You could have proved bro' right, but you just couldn't pull the trigger.
Not my fault you hung around. I predicted you would but you made the decision. If nothing else gang, you all got to vent for a whole weekend on "the preacher." I think we're pretty much even and what are you out? I presented truth as I understand it, you called me names. All in all a pretty normal weekend for us. What was so new about any of that?
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Johnwayne: All right, all right , all right already I give.
I told Griff there was no way he could get you guys to go an entire weekend without creating a new Bush Bashing topic, and that he could not get you distracted enough to not comment on the Current Bush threads less than 3 times throughout the weekend. I could not post because it would be too easy for me to bait you. Well I'm throwing in the towel.
You guys dived off the cliff head first.
Grifon, by his lonesome, is about as good a "thread" on the evils of the shrubbery as exists.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Griffon: "the bet just demonstrates why the church is screwed up anyway..."
since there was no bet, this is just plain funny
quote:Originally posted by Johnwayne: All right, all right , all right already I give.
I told Griff there was no way he could get you guys to go an entire weekend without creating a new Bush Bashing topic, and that he could not get you distracted enough to not comment on the Current Bush threads less than 3 times throughout the weekend. I could not post because it would be too easy for me to bait you. Well I'm throwing in the towel.
You guys dived off the cliff head first.
then why did JW "throw in the towel"?
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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"i did challenge you early on griffo, and you do remeber cusz you referenced it..."
yes and I commended you for that.
"you have no business "tending souls""
This from someone who wants to kill some of them. You're mad cause you fell for it Glass. It didn't change the way we related, in no way was anyone hurt, though you all were a bit more insulting to me than usual, it all rolls off the marble head. So come on, back to business as usual.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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Could have called that from 150 miles away, which I guess I did. Course it means I'm a whole bunch of obnoxious names to these folks, but you know, Bush and Clinton, neither of them found their way into a new thread. Is that cool or what? I told you: peace-building sometimes begins with getting them to hate something else more, shifting the focus of their rage. 
