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French troops under UN auspices would enter into Lebanon to be a buffer between Israel and Lebanon (Hezbollah?) after the cessation of hostilities. Is this a good idea? A former Mandate power returning to the scene of their crime to fix things.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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Why yes it is! Because it is a case of the former power expending money that they obtained stealing from this indigenous culture. Only problem is, usually once France claims something, it takes war to get rid of them.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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. The present configuration of the United Nations is still a reaction to the Cold War. A new paradigm is needed. Structures need to be re-examined and re-designed. The Security Council is one example, but the peace-keeping mandate, the genocide treaty, UNICEF, various relief agencies all need to reflect a global community, not three worlds hopelessly divided. One area of proof of its antiquated structure is the Israel/Palestine question. Clearly, this situation is too volatile for the present expressin of peace-keeping, nevertheless the terrorism on both sides needs to end. Further, the dilema of two nations having historical, social, cultural and religious ties to what is essentially the same plot of ground defies present legal conceptualization of nationhood. Similar trouble is essentially borne out in the question of China/Taiwan/Hong Kong. The international community lacks the jurisprudence to acknowledge simultaneous claims to the same land. This must come from a re-definition of nation as well as of the UN. The ties to the land are brilliantly put forth in Elias Chacour's "Blood Brothers" and "We Belong to the Land." He also is the founder of the Mar Elias School for Palestinian-Israeli Jews, Christians, Muslims and Druze. It is the first Palestinian school of its kind and it became a University under the direct support of James Baker and Shimon Perez. The notion that one can or should be dispossessed now is patently ludicrous. However, tribal claims to the land must cease too. What is my suggestion (sure to be unpopular in some sections of academia)?
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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I suggest that we should actively lobby for a new UN mandate that better reflects the needs of the world community. I also suggest that the UN and world community declare Jerusalem an open city and the new UN headquarters. In this declaration, priority needs to be given for the formation of two national governments to function in Jerusalem: one Israeli, the other Palestinian. Only by working out a jurisprudence that empowers both people to have a nation that occupies the same space can there be healthy resolution and coersed reconciliation. If sovereignty is closely observed by the UN both sides stand to lose too much to risk continuing the struggles. It will also generate the needed economic systems to empower both nations. I did say it would be unpopular but give it a moment to settle in.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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Next, somehow the US and the UN as a whole need to set standards in black and white that define genocide, mass murder and ethnic cleansing. There has got to be a clearer, less debatable and quicker evaluation of what these things are. There must also be clear delineation of the consequences are for those who engage in genocide, mass murder and ethnic cleansing. I am sure the instinct will be to say we should stay out of them all. It is an isolationist foreign policy that has consistently failed the historical, empirical test. Isolationism encouraged Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Milosovic, Panic, Hussein and others in their efforts of mass murder, ethnic cleansing and genocide. I hope you recognized that I was blaming the lessons of brutal leadership on colonialism. The colonial powers brutally repressed colonists. The Western powers’ administration of colonies taught leaders to be brutal, played upon tribal tensions, taught that might equals right, taught that power meant better culture, and exploited land and people. That is the lesson we handed down to the new leaders of fledgling nations. The legacy of colonialism is found in brutal dictators, military juntas, coups, exploitation of the masses, cultural malaise, terrorist governments and militant opposition.
Because the Western powers taught the lessons of brutality and mass murder out of economic and political expediency, they must now raise a new issue. The world community is morally, ethically responsible for removing leaders who brutalize their populations, first in the powers who caused the instability, but also as the world. The world community must stand together, even if arms must be raised. The world community must cry with one voice against these dictatorial monsters whose power is expressed in terrorizing and neglecting their culture, nation and/or tribe. Until the world stands together and in resolve against depersonalizing leaders genocide and murder will happen regardless of the party in the White House. Those brutal, evil leaders must know, absolutely know, that if they mistreat their people, they will lose power and live in a cage for the rest of their lives. They simply must not be allowed to have control of other peoples' lives. It should also be pointed out that in these cases at present, when the world community represented in the UN lacks political or ethical will to help the powerless end mass slaughter, it is still the absolute duty of all nations to take action. Genocide, ethnic cleansing and mass murder must end and where the UN fails to act, it does not relieve the world community of its moral obligation to end these atrocities.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Griffon: French troops under UN auspices would enter into Lebanon to be a buffer between Israel and Lebanon (Hezbollah?) after the cessation of hostilities. Is this a good idea? A former Mandate power returning to the scene of their crime to fix things.
It's a pointless plan simply because the hostilities are not going to end. Soon Syria will be directly involved.. and then Iran. And then us.
Posts: 2965 | Registered: Aug 2005
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"It's a pointless plan simply because the hostilities are not going to end. Soon Syria will be directly involved.. and then Iran. And then us."
There's still time. I think you will find Stira lose its nerve or the battle before Iran can react. The one I think is turning from what was said today is Jordan. If Israel answers the calls for a cease-fire, it will de-escalate for a time. If Syria comes across, a military mistake even if the US were not in the region, it will be because the IDF has gotten too close to where the ammo stores in Bekka are hiding. Iran can't get to Israel yet because a much better prepared and armed force is between Iran and Israel. But you are right it is a scary time.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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To that end, the UN needs a "Quick Reaction Force" of trained professional troops and equipment to deal with these situations in order to prevent the onset, or react immediately to events that equate with mass murder. Now the reason such need to be in place is well documented in events surrounding the Kurds in 88-89 and the Rwandans in 94. National and even international political and ethical will cannot be counted on to do the right thing. There must be a clear threshold that is easy to monitor and document, and some proverbial "lead in the pencil" to back up the promise that we will remove leaders that abuse their people. For the nations that have a process in place removal of leaders and peaceful transfer of power is becoming tradition. In our country, elections take place as they have for 200+ years. But many nations only experience transition through violence, through coup. That violence often spills over into the administration. The threat of immanent removal for malpractice might instruct would-be leaders that they better not take their aggression out on innocent people.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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The US must adopt a foreign policy that works on consistency. The Presidential preferences for certain national priorities as they perceive them provide more of a roulette game approach from the perspective of petty dictators. We too need a threshold of intervention that is clear, detailed and concise. There are too many political games played and the cost is paid in too many lives.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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The foreign policy approach we take must cease the effort to create socio-political-economic-cultures in our image, instead we must work to empower nations to built their own cultural expression of socio-political-economic structures. These structures must be an extension and expression of their communal (tribal) sense of being. We must embrace a unity in diversity understanding of international relationships, recognizing that other nations need not embrace our ideology for us to share peace.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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As we fight the War on Terror, we must also analyze what has caused this world wide struggle. This war is not only about the US but we have been struck deeply by it. The damage has been terrible, emotionally, psychologically and materially. The instability caused by colonialism and Cold War has now visited us. May I suggest this is our most complex task. We must find the root causes of terrorism, and recognize the role Western domination of the world plays in it. The cycle of hopelessness, seeing resources leave to make others powerful, seeing violence and oppression, must end. It has changed some people forever violence is simply all they know. We must find new ways of valuation that empower them for their own culturally-determined goals. And the patronizing approach must end.
We must also come to a deeper understanding of what Marc Ellis called the "Unholy Alliance" in his book of that name. Like political extremes, religious extremes are mechanisms of instability. They are invariably uncompromising in their vision of the world, hurtful and aggressive in doling out violence, intellectual, verbal, and/or physical. Some part of this war on terror is a battle of ultra orthodox theologies, but there is also the battle of political ideologies, ultra-liberal and ultra-conservative, and economic ideologies, communist and capitalist. These forces become so entangled that people and personhood is destroyed. We neglect personhood, or at the very least bury it under a bunch of descriptive but depersonalizing terms. The labels negate the person. And that prevents us from sitting down at a table of fellowship. The approach to foreign policy I advocate also includes putting away the labels of nullification and interposition and beginning to see each other as persons with rich variety of perspective. Well, I hope this is enough to chew on for awhile. It is not a complete statement but some rest beckons. Have fun all, and may we set down the labels to offer a hand of community.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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Now friends, tell me where in my foreign policy do you find a conservative? The absolute, incontrovertable truth is that I am a nice, friendly, radical centrist Christian with no political agenda. That's what frees me up to study history so effectively. That and my love of other cultures and their preservation.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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You are "conservative" because you are goose-stepping to the cadence of the facist in the Administration.
What else you are is an egtistical a$$ that prisses about preaching falsehoods of his own worth, such as,"The absolute, incontrovertable truth is that I am a nice, friendly, radical centrist Christian with no political agenda. That's what frees me up to study history so effectively. That and my love of other cultures and their preservation."
That's sick!
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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Hey Bdgee- Better get used to it, he ain't leaving. I can tell you woke up spoiling for a fight. You need some new material man. Glassman is the idea man we get that. You'r role is attack dog, shouting down anyone and everyone that disagrees with the rest of you, we get that. Now at one point do you actually post an idea? Or is it just all whining?
-------------------- Thanks Matto. Thanks Juice. Posts: 2945 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2006
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Oh brother of aragorn, we quiver at your pronouncement. Please be gentle and show kindness as the two of you remake our word to conform to your design.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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Aragorn was a true King in that he was reluctant to seize power for power's sake and saw from afar that the crown is heavy.... of course? in the story he never has to actually rule, he just gets to lead men in battle...so it's only half the story.. or less
here: see if you can find where this comes from... "Death is lighter than a feather, but Duty is heavier than a mountain."
if you enjoy reading? there are several thousand pages where this comes from.. written by a true warrior, and? excellent discourse on the nature of good and evil, how man's struggle with himself is represented in the wars he wages etc.. etc..
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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I have noticed some pecularly similar wordings by Griffon and aragorn when speaking of a claim that the Constitution specifically grants "freedom of religion" and specifically denies "freedom from religion" (with, of course, the same repugnant implication as to a lack of "freedom of religion for anyone else). Moreover, he generates almost the same "reasoning" to justify that and other religious "desires" concerning U. S. law. Has the same faulty notion that "of" and "from" are discordant or mutually exclusive and claims that to be a result of logic.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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"You are "conservative" because you are goose-stepping to the cadence of the facist in the Administration."
Given your use of racial slurs, you would know alot about goose-stepping and facism bdgee. Read the plan. No Bush fan here. But you do have a political agenda, scream down whoever disagrees with you. History saw that as the Hitler Assassination conspirators were railed against by their trial judge. Again you ally yourself with facist tactics bdgee. You then negate the...no, let's go back to the topic of the thread. I offered a plan that builds on the present American French plan which appears to be dead in the water.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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"specifically denies "freedom from religion"
Never, ever said that bdgee. Feel free to post where I said the Constitution says freedom from religion is denied. Obviously you lost track of what I actually said.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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"What you actually said is that the Constitution does not give freedom from religion."
Read the context bdgee, in response to your saying, "The Constitution grants freedom from religion, no where does it say freedom of religion." To which I replied, "The Establishment clause is not about freedom from religion." Which is patently true. The founders did not include the establishment clause to exclude religion from the public square, they included it to prevent one religion from dominating the public square and shutting others out. I know you want to re-write 175-200 years of jurisprudence in our history so your version can fit, but you are wrong.
The "instructions from Rove thing" sounds alot like whining and simply shows your desparation because you can't argue anything but hate Bush. This thread is about finding a foreign policy. This thread is not about hate Bush and if that upsets you there are lots of threads where you can do that. This thread is about balance. And to that end let's get back to talking about foreign policy:
and again she sounds like it would be business as usual. Now this is significant because she will win the nomination in '08 barring a huge charge from someone outside the pack. This will happen as an homage to former President Clinton and because the effort to hold the Liberal wing in the party. But her foreign policy stance so far is completely inadequate.
What choice would I support from both parties?
Barak Obama has the beginnings of a good foreign policy. Listen:
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The "instructions from Rove thing" sounds alot like whining and simply shows your desparation because you can't argue anything but hate Bush
actually Grifoon... this statement has much more to do with telling you your presentation sucks..totally..
try appealing to our conscience and reason instead of shame and guilt and hate...
that's if you really do want to change things... we aren't your average idiots here...we see and read lies everyday on the market, we are disriminating idiots.. ...your tactical aproach is what's wrong...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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"And get it through you bigoted head, I don't feel compelled to post beans to suit you."
First, since I do not use racially charged language and you do, the bigot thing reveals you have a hypocritical streak bdgee. Now don't feel bad about that since all human beings have back-sliding issues.
"I don't feel compelled to post beans to suit you."
I would hope not. I offer an invitation to clear the air, not compulsion. Compulsion would be leaving you with only one thread to talk on and providing rules for what the topics can be. I do neither. I gently remind people to come back to the circle and enter into the topic of discussion. However, it does SEEM you are rather obsessive about me and my opinions. Should I be flattered that for some macabre reason you strive so hard to change the topic of every thread to suit your speciality? Oops, that was a question and in all humorous-ness, I know how you feel about questions.
Come on bdgee, let's have some fun and talk about the issues as presented in threads.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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"try appealing to our conscience and reason instead of shame and guilt and hate..."
Interesting..... tell me how you propose that should be done. I do not see one post he has posted with shame, guilt or hate, but I suspect that has more to do with this boards pre conceived notions than griff's words. Never the less, there is always room for improvement.
-------------------- Thanks Matto. Thanks Juice. Posts: 2945 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2006
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Interesting..... I do not see one post he has posted with shame, guilt or hate, but I suspect that has more to do with this boards pre conceived notions than griff's words.
are you braindead?
d'oh? Why does the Democratic party support genocide!
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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The agenda here is clear.... if a poster does not agree lock step with most on this board, on every issue, run 'em off. No dissenting opinion allowed. If you don't hate Bush leave.
If you post anything political that varies from "Hate Bush" you are not welcome here and your posts are labelled irrelivant.
And God help you if you say anything positive about religion, than you are really attacked.
"Religion is not faith" "Well, all I know is the last time I went to a church I heard the republican church was the dumb one" "There is no God" Blah, Blah, Blah.......
There should be room for all opinions on this board, yours and mine
[ August 04, 2006, 13:56: Message edited by: Johnwayne ]
-------------------- Thanks Matto. Thanks Juice. Posts: 2945 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2006
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as I came from within the party, I am offering a critique of my former party leaders. Never the less, I should have said, "Why did Democratic Party Leaders support genocide?" Much more accurate and to the point. That resolved, let's come back to
"this statement has much more to do with telling you your presentation sucks..totally.."
Defend your friend all you want, that's a commendable act. But the presentation is exactly what I see on these boards all the time. So I am doing it right. What you have a problem with is the topic I choose to discuss. See, Glass, as much as loyalty is commendable, so is honesty. You don't like the topics and you don't like that I won't just speak the way you think is right.
""try appealing to our conscience and reason instead of shame and guilt and hate..."
I did and you replied with hate. Look at this thread...conscience and reason. Who took it another direction? bdgee and glassman. You are not objective enough to see this glass, but look: bdgee uses racial epithets and you defend him. Sunnyside offers me a decapitation video and you defend her. Who's attacking?
You don't address the issue because you have a simple agenda that isn't about the future, it isn't about peace, it's about Bush. You've been "Dean-ed" to the point you see only one side.
Face it Glass, you want me to be a nice, passive little mouse in the corner. That is not who I will be. Christians and centrists should be allowed to present on these boards. You all been pushing people off who you didn't like. Dustoff can articulate that when he talks about wanting to meet the "old clique." What you want is a few guys to come in so you can go "on the hunt" and drive them off. And now you figured out you can't drive me off, what an un-Democratic thing to do, so you expect me to come in sit by the fire like some old, gray dog wagging his tail at the scraps thrown to him. That dog has done come home and riled up the flock. But they will settle.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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...your tactical aproach is what's wrong...
