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Normal practice by this pair. When you get lost, can't figure out what is being said, or cannot convince someone to kiss your feet, insult and denigrate.
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here's the arrogance of Bdgee If you disagree with Bdgee, you must, you absolutely have to be a right winger. Absolutely no exceptions. If you deny it you have either been Roved or are lieing. As if every person that did not vote for Bush, or even did not vote at all, agrees lock step with every single thing Bdgee says about politics.
Now that is a pretty ha' falutin' way uv thenkin'.
Well really he says very little, only time he expands beyond screeeching is when Glassman feeds him lines.
"Normal practice by this pair. When you get lost, can't figure out what is being said, or cannot convince someone to kiss your feet, insult and denigrate.
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Here is some high intellectual standards coming from you Bdgee "WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"
"Those nasty boys are asking me questions again!!!! And look at how they word it!!!!!! What should I do now Glassman??????"
I offered to tone things down yesterday if you agreed to do the same. You did not respond. Why is that Bdgee??? We could have both started over with just a little good faith effort on both sides and an agreement that we both get a little carried away once in a while. You did not respond. And I'm the smug one? Can't even admit you may go about things the wrong way, even once in a while? Even when the person you are arguing with offers to admit it?
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"Normal practice by this pair. When you get lost, can't figure out what is being said, or cannot convince someone to kiss your feet, insult and denigrate."
No insults or denigration at all. What you mean to say is this, "Bdgee uses racial and religio-phobic slurs. Bdgee employs a double-standard. Bdgee doesn't like being confronted with ideas that differ from his own so he says things like:"
“I guess they are all illegals and the census guy couldn't find all those wetbacks, huh?” posted July 23, 2006 19:18 Clinton Vietnam
"Egocentric nut"......posted July 23, 2006 21:41 Clinton Vietnam
See bdgee, those are insults directed from you to 1: an ethnic group, and 2: me.
Here you are confronted with your own hypocricy, suggesting I use insults when in fact Bdgee is the one who is insulting.
It also appears given Bdgee's statement on Latino ethnicity that Bdgee calling me a bigot is hypocritical on your part.
This is a blast guys, hate to step out for a sec, but I'll BRB
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim
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I am about as worried of you as I am of a slug on the sidewalk.
I haven't seen anything from you that hints of intellectual ability or intellectual integrity and instead of displaying any, you lean on insult, slander, and vile expression.
Sooooooooooooo.....I play youR silly childish game, to make you feel at home.
Then you get mad and start the whole insulting game again.
Why don't you try some responsible discussion, if you are capable. Are you?
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No, Glass, it is whether or not the possibility of declaring all of politics genocide outweighe any and everything any democrat ever said or did, so that the only recourse is to vote for dubya.
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Guys, with every post you prove every theory I ever put on here about your behavior. Feel free to keep going.
"debate? were we debating something? LOL.... whether there is a possible existence of a so-called radical middle..."
Yes we were, until you lost, debating why a Democratic Administration let 2,000,000 Africans die.
Since you got beat on that one you wanted to change the subject so you came to Religious Left being the hope for this country. Afraid to talk religion, you ran over to the Radical Center where you were embarassed again
"Then you get mad and start the whole insulting game again."
This is transference bdgee, you do this. Case in point calling an ethnic group a derogatory name. See, the getting mad thing, that's all you which leads to the name calling coming out. But you feel good about yourself, thats that self-righteous thing you do so well.
"No, Glass, it is whether or not the possibility of declaring all of politics genocide outweighe any and everything any democrat ever said or did, so that the only recourse is to vote for dubya."
See here's bdgee's justification of genocide.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim
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Oh I gotta say, Texas and Wisconsin may have the steak and Iowa may have the corn, but ain't much better than Tennessee Tea to finish a meal right. In terms of our hope, which is built on nothing less than Jesus' blood and righteousness, the Religious Left is the voice to counter the religious right (please not the change in capitalization is not accidental).
Why, one might ask? Because the Democratic Party has failed to counter them since 1976 and even then the erosion away from the Democrats was evident. And it was wrong because by all the issue, Christians should be socialist in bent with few minor objections. But no one in the Democratic Party was able to articulate that message well enough because there was no evangelical-doxological paricipation in their lives.
The presidency could not and should not be entrusted to a preacher be that preacher: Jessie Jackson, Pat Robertson, Al Sharpton or Jerry Falwell. But to mobilize Christian voters one should be able to articulate a clear message that resonates with Christian voters in the same way candidates seek other voter demographics.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim
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The presidency could not and should not be entrusted to a preacher be that preacher: Jessie Jackson, Pat Robertson, Al Sharpton or Jerry Falwell. But to mobilize Christian voters one should be able to articulate a clear message that resonates with Christian voters in the same way candidates seek other voter demographics.
so? get hopping.... first thing you guys need to do if'n you're serious is to get studying how these guys operate and cut'em off att the knees.... Liberty U and Regent's..... they need to be gone over carefully for any signs of political weakness..
next? you have to take rove's tactic and make the media report on them...get the story out..it's there, but very few realise how low this guy hits...
"normal" people are offended by hypocrisy and lying... don't even need to go to church for that...
Valerie Plame filed a law suit... fund it.... fund it well...
talk about how many experienced US Govt employees have left because of the bad atmosphere set by the tone of the current adamin...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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No Democratic voice came up with the support to seriously challenge the religious right. Personally I suspect there were some ethnicity under-currents that hampered those efforts of Revs. Jesse and Al, but even within the Democratic leadership it was more hands off than a helping hand.
Even now, the Democratic Party struggles to express a voice to challenge the religious right. Why? Because they look at them as a political opponent and it is instead a religio-social movement. These people have a vision that is reinforced every time LaHaye puts out another book or movie. A whole industry has grown up teaching the wrong view of Revelation but doing so with alot of special effects. More on that next
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim
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The problem is that two distinct visions of the eschaton. In one case, which pervades the religious right, God will Rapture the "good guys" away before destroying the world in judgment, fire and ashes. In the second case God will literally "pitch S/he's tent" among us in transforming this world. This is the more Religious Liberal view, though surely there is cross-pollination of ideas.
Here's the difference:
In the former, the basis in scripture is found in 1 Thessalonians 4 and Revelation 4-20. Now LaHaye and the others base this pessimistic view of the world on the wrong question for 1 Thessalonians. They see Paul answering what will physically happen at the end. That is not the question Paul is answering. He is answering: what happens to our loved ones if they die before the eschaton? The answer? God will bring them to be with God pending the outcome of a cataclysmic event. That leads to predictions of when events in Revelations will happen.
Problem is Revelation, as with all apocalypse isn't written that way. Revelation is written in with events order of magnitude regarding how Rome will fall. No timeline, no prediction of events. The question of Revelation is found in Revelation 6:9-10, in effect, "How long Lord before you avenge our suffering? or How long must we suffer?" And from there God gives a vision of how Rome will eventually fall and the battle will be over before it began (Revelation 19). It should be noted, Rome did indeed fall in the early 4th Century without an arrow being shot or a sword being drawn, but on the basis of the good witness of Christians. Constantine was "converted" (many would argue his conversion was a real one) and Rome with him.
The other perspective in a bit
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim
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yawn.....imminentization of the eschaton is boring speculation....
how about talking about how you "centrists" plan to deal with the oil companies that are raking it in right now instead... they are gonna be in charge no matter who you elect...
the Iraqis have been trying to find one excuse or another to have a war... if we had sold off oil rights to private co's? they were going to war... we gave them to the state, so they can have a welfare nation? and they are still gonna have a war... face it, they just wanna kill something...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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Now contra the religious right and Timothy LaHaye, another vision of the eschaton appears and its best presentation is either in Isaiah 11:1-9 where the child will put his hand in the adder's nest, and lions and lambs will lie down together, they will not hurt or destroy on God's Holy Mountain. This is the final view of Revelation too although the imagery is that of "the New Heaven and the New earth" where earth is recreated or renewed and God dwells with creation again.
The difference is can we work to make the world better or do we have to wait for Christ's return. Another way of putting it is this: Can we redeem creation, environmentally and socially or should we just let things take their course. The Religious Left would argue the former, and so they tend to be interested in justice and social salvation issues. The religious right tends to argue the latter and focuses on personal salvation issues. So from the right you hear: are you saved? or some such question first, where for lefties you hear: how can we serve you?
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim
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Some people will not want to hear this so they will skip over it, but that is the way to neutralize the religious right. Pure teaching would turn the balance. So I encourage you to share this message with your liberal and centrist Christian friends. John Wesley said it well in talking about the need for tension and balance between personal and social salvation: "There is no salvation but social salvation." That message would resonate with Religious righties and Lefties and it would get rid of the conservative voting bloc in the Republican Party.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim
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"There is no salvation but social salvation." That message would resonate with Religious righties and Lefties and it would get rid of the conservative voting bloc in the Republican Party.
that's your magic bullet? so? where do we start? prohibition again? tear down the casinoes? get rid of the lotteries and the bingo? oh yeah Bingo died becasue of them didn't it?
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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to tear down the political hegemony of the religious right, yes.
"so? where do we start? prohibition again? tear down the casinoes? get rid of the lotteries and the bingo? oh yeah Bingo died becasue of them didn't it?"
all of that is less important than helping addicts of gambling and alcahol. This is hard to picture glass, because the religious right has held the arena for so long we are conditioned to think in their terms. Let me draw an example from John Wesley and the early Methodists.
Their first ministry was to coal miners, many of whom were addicted to gin because company shops paid wages part in gin and that was the drink available to them. Wesley did not go after the prohibition of gin, he went after helping miners escape the conditions that played to their addiction. He convinced the owners to pay all the salary in money. He convinced owners to find alternative and non alcaholic drinks for the miners while in the mines. He organized classes and bands to help families that had been abandoned because of the addiction and hazardous working conditions.
His point was it is no good to simply go in and say the right words to be personally, spiritually saved. He said the gospel calls us to love one another in a way that builds the other up.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim
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Let me look at a major controvercial issue the religious right appropriates: abortion. Please bear with me as I offer two events that surround this issue.
A few years ago there was a conference of 100 "experts" Christian and non-Christian on the issue of abortion, 50 for choice and 50 for no choice. Now there were the usual arguments, but one point came out that they could all agree on: there are too many abortions. 1.2 million every year is too many.
Now in the 2004 election the political genius of Bill Clinton came into play and almost changed the election. After his heart surgery, he campaigned in Arkansas and Missouri. On the issue of abortion, which he stands on the pro-choice side, he did not make that the central issue of his conversation. He said there are too many abortions.
Now that seems like a no-brainer for the religious right but you get beyond that to the left and it may seem surprising. But here's a Religious Left position, not the only one obviously, but one: can we reduce the need for abortions by addressing the systemic conditions that cause many abortions to occur?
It's not about eliminating choice, it's about working with people in systemic nightmares: abusive relationships, addictive situations, abject poverty and other events that cause some people to feel their choice is really no choice at all. It is really about improving social conditions so people can really are free to make a choice unencumbered by their situation.
Also, for some people it's a choice determined by economic factors. Children are expensive. For those who do choose to keep the baby and and those who give him/her up for adoption, the church/mosque/synagogue should be prepared to work for an end to poverty and debt relief in that person's life and in the system that surrounds her. Systemic poverty is a huge cause of abortions, in part because the only recreation some couples have is procreation.
It comes down to this: is the religious right that is so concerned about the unborn child also concerned about that child after he/she is born? Concerned enough to change the conditions of all children in this country into a life of real opportunity, safety, and growth? That's the question of the Religious Left: How do we make that happen? And honestly "No Child Left Behind" sounds good as a slogan, but the program fails.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim
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What you are neglecting to emphasize is that what the right wing religious extreme is actually saying to those poor and sick women is, you have no choice but to remaimn poor or sick because god made you that way. As proof thereof, they merely point to the conditions the woman is in, as it is clear that had they been one of god's favored, they would not be poor or sick.
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rescue takes place when you have the material basis for it i think we need to work on shelter food ,and colthing . Saftey and security for all children ,education, and activities afert school and in the summer,prison reform and that is by no means prvatizing them,health care and health care public works for the unemployed, A very smart energy policy in the hands of the Government not the energy related companies this is only fair any more since the ecology of the earth is at stake and gas is as much of a necessity as electricity and can't be trusted to the profit motive and is left to the democracy of the vote. Relegion goes back to a persons choice not into the law of the land.
The next time we go to war nobody that is sitting it out at home,the entire nation cannot net from income from any means any more than the lowest paid soldier in the front line all monies over that amount go to the war effort. And most important before we go to war declared or not a special election to be held the only people that could vote in this election are the people that have to fight the war they would make that decision
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"The next time we go to war nobody that is sitting it out at home,the entire nation cannot net from income from any means any more than the lowest paid soldier in the front line all monies over that amount go to the war effort."
This I do not:
"And most important before we go to war declared or not a special election to be held the only people that could vote in this election are the people that have to fight the war they would make that decision"
Are you saying some guy with only one leg or arm can't have a voice? You are then accepting that circumstances a person has no control over gives him or denies him some right.
Next, we can make that law say that lefties can't vote because everyone (specially baseball players that have to put up with them all the time) knows they are naturally screwy and can be expected to have strange ideas. Hey, and yeah, redheads too!
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