posted
Good to see the religious people of this land beginning to dialog. I think I feel the wind of revival coming! Course the question is will Howard Dean be able to let them in given his stance on religion as the whipping child for his defeat.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
Yippee skippy, go religious zealots, blah blah blah!!!
Maybe we'll see a religious house divided, that would be nice. The sooner people who can't live without a deity take the 'Organized' out of Organized Religion the better. Especially the people who call themselves Christ-like (christian). As I recall, Jesus started fighting organized religion as a child and met his fate fighting it. Why, therefore, would anybody who wants to truly be 'like' Christ belong to Organized Religion? It seems oxymoronish to me...
Posts: 1235 | From: Anacortes, WA | Registered: Apr 2005
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There was an article in the Boston Globe that _________ emailed me the other day.
It seems Willy the Cat was stealing garden gloves in this Pelham NY neighborhood. He’s been labeled the feline felon.
And when a glove or set of gloves turns up missing, neighbors make the journey over to pick the gloves up from the Pifer family.
Last Thursday, 9 pairs and 5 single gloves were hanging from the clothes line. Everyone knew the culprit was Willy the feline felon.
But we’re not here today to just talk about clepto cats or feline felons. I want to talk to you about those things that steal something far more important than gloves.
I want to ask: where has the joy gone? I said it before God is in this house! Amen?
Again I said it before Jesus Christ is in this place! Amen?
And anyone that ever read the Pentecost story of Acts 2 knows the Holy Spirit of God, the very presence of God IS…IN…THIS…PLACE!!! Amen?
But sometimes, I get t-i-r-e-d. How bout you?
Sometimes, I f-e-e-l (pause) a wearinesssss aching down in my bones. How bout you? And when I feel that wearinesssss aching, there ain’t no joy…no joy at all, it is the Valley of the dry bones.
But then God says, Preach-errrrr, these bones with live! Now let me tell you, THAT is the promise of God and in that we know we can find joy.
So how do we confront the things that steal joy? How do we confront our glove stealing cats?
Let’s begin by confessing the world can really wear us out. Can I get a hearty AMEN to that? You ever feel beat up by the world? Then you’re in good company, let’s tell it out.
Know What Philippians is often referred to as Paul’s ¬epistle of joy.
God breathes joy and life out upon tired, hurting and discouraged people in the vision of Ezekiel 37.
Ezekiel 37 is a vision God gave to the prophet Ezekiel when they were in the Babylonian Captivity.
Some of the things that steal my joy that put me in the captivity:
27 items in the 20 item lane Being tired Being hungry Being lonely Driving in Chicago Friends in Israel/Palestine/Lebanon and the world in harm’s way Sometimes heat; other times cold Paperwork
You know though, even when the Israelites were in that captivity, that valley of bones Ezekiel says, the breath of God entered them and they still had the witness!
Even when we feel like we are in that “Exile” or “Captivity” God has an eternal plan for us that includes new, whole life in Jesus Christ, and in Christ we got the witness cause God’s got a plan.
So What And Because God has a plan, and not just any plan, AMEN, but God’s got an eternal plan for us, and the cares of this world, those things that threaten to steal our joy cannot overcome or defeat us.
God breathed new life into us and we are set free to live and love.
Folks things might steal our joy sometimes, but remember as Ezekiel tells us, we got the breath of God as witness! And in that witness is life.
Now What
Lots of things steal our joy to be sure
The church down the road might try stealing our joy but… we got the witness!!!!
The church on TV, that looks so big and strong, might try stealing our joy but…we got the witness!!!!!
Bills, work, news, weather, health; they might all try to steal our joy but…we got the witness!!!!!!!!
We need not surrender to the fears, the time clocks, the hates, the hopelessness and the violence of this world because…we got the witness!
And something else you should know: we got the witness because…we got God’s “Mojo.” God’s mojo isn’t magic, it just plain pure power!
Now that word might sound a bit strange coming from a preacher, but you know what, the world’s been stealing our words and giving them new meanings: conviction holiness, justice, and more.
I like the way this word sounds so I’m stealing it away from the world’s meaning. God’s mojo is this:
You have been saved from the cruelty of a world drunk with the wine of its sin. If you have faith in Christ, God has eternity in mind for you! You are royalty! Your freedom bought and paid for at a high price revealed at the cross, at the empty tomb. Oh sisters and brothers …
What care of this world can overcome that, what can steal our joy in the face of God’s saving grace?
Don’t let the “joy killers” steal your joy by focusing on things that grow joy in you:
Jesus Christ Friends Family Scripture Prayer
Now before I wrap up I do want to mention the other side of joy: temporary happiness, quick fixes to real sorrows.
It’s also possible that you are like a friend I met the other day as he flung the store door open in my face…tell about the young man seeking joy and easing of pain from beer, getting aggressive at Casey’s.
Many things give us the appearance of joy. They seem to help us feel better, but in reality they fail us. Some of them wreck our health, some jeopardize our lives, some dull or mask pain that is in reality still there.
As Ezekiel said, the breath of God gives life to dry bones.
We find in Christ the strength to stand in new ways as we meet the circumstances of the world with grace and love.
When we do that we share the Holy Spirit, the presence of God, to change this world by breathing the breath of life upon them!
It’s a great mission to be a part of!
Finally, consider how God has raised you to new life out of situations where it seemed joy was never coming back. And if you feel led by the life-providing, joy-giving God, then I ask you to talk to me about sharing that witness in an up-coming worship service about the joy God has given you! Let’s Pray about that!
Witness is a 10 week study I want to offer to lay speakers and lay leaders beginning September 17th at 7pm at Oakville. If others are interested, please contact me or Grace at the office.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
"would anybody who wants to truly be 'like' Christ belong to Organized Religion?"
Mark 1: "They went to Capernaum; and when the sabbath came, he entered the synagogue and taught."
Luke 4 When he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, he went to the synagogue on the sabbath day, as was his custom. He stood up to read, and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was given to him. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it was written: “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim release to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.” And he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant, and sat down. The eyes of all in the synagogue were fixed on him. Then he began to say to them, “Today this scripture has been fulfilled in your hearing.” All spoke well of him and were amazed at the gracious words that came from his mouth."
Where is Jesus? Teaching in the synagogue. What relationship did Jesus have with organized Judaism? an examining and challenging one. But he was part of the organized people of God. He also obeyed every custom and was buried according to Jewish custom. His unorthodox resurrection did pose problems for the hierarchy of orthodox Judaism, but he was a Jew and we should remember that.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
You may also recall he "worked" on the Sabbath day, and was harrassed for it by the Jewish religious leaders of his time. Jesus taught in the synagogues because that's where the people were, but eventually met his demise at the hands of the leaders of organised religion because his message threatened the very power that organized religion craves, the power to control how people live. Yes, Jesus was a Jew, but his message (life)of real faith, real love thy brother, and real freedom from religious oppression falls on deaf ears even today. Most Christians don't even worship on the same day as Jesus did (same day His Jews still do) as commanded in the Fourth Commandment. Go figure...
Posts: 1235 | From: Anacortes, WA | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
What do you all substitute then for burger? In my book, hamburger is meat, the most cholesterol laden type you can eat. It's as meat as meat can get Leo.
But you know, I am just happy to see a Liberal Christian response to far Right religion. I been waiting for the religious left to have good leadership. Moderates have no place to go yet, but we can work on it. I can't be a poster boy, good preacher, good pastoral care, good missions, good evangelism, but a face that could launch a thousand ships in whatever direction gets 'em away the fastest and a voice that could break glass in pain not beauty.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
"What do you all substitute then for burger?"
Uhhhhhhh....Hamburger Helper...hint:(key words are 'hamburger' and 'helper'). A lot of poor people who can't afford, or otherwise get their hungry hands on, beef eat it...
Posts: 1235 | From: Anacortes, WA | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
LOL, in other words, the hamburger helper comment meant, in essence, Where's the damned BEEF?
Posts: 1235 | From: Anacortes, WA | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
cheap protein from animal flesh? lol, *lottsa* ways to accomplish that...
BUT let's limit the discussion to means available in the grocery store...
Budget, yes? forget the "middle" of the grocery store--unless they happen to have pasta in the middle--buy mostly from the outer edges at the big ol' grocery. For "meat," get the cheapest available on the bone...not tripe, organs, etc. Get wings on sale, turkey "parts" on sale...even fish. Sure, *sometimes* boneless is cheaper, when they're running a loss-leader... anyway--point made, eh?
then buy good pasta, by itself--sometimes the veggie pasta is cheaper. Then get good, whole-fat (not skim) milk, in whatever's the cheapest per ounce (bigger not always cheaper)
That way? no cheese needed... iow, if you buy low-fat milk, THEN also buy cheese? redundant...not cost effective...
posted
Folks, why can't we all get excited about a religious voice that rises in challenge to the fundamentalist religious right? Seriously, a good debate on issues will ensue. It will force the public square to discuss issues like poverty, homelessness, war, militarism, exporting democracy, addiction, hunger and others. Would that not be more helpful than "hate Bush" and "hate Clinton?" We could debate issues that hit lives directly instead of who has the most photogenic face or the highest bank account? We could get past the cosmetic issues and to the real stuff, because that is what we as Christians and I am sure other faiths discuss.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
Why must I restrict a voice to oppose the religious right to a religious voice.
What the rightwing religious fanatics prropose is unamericaan. So why can't you argue against them without it being based on religion. The Constitutioon guarantees us a Government free of religious involvememt.
I don't have any problem arguing against their absurd selfish attitudes and claims without envoking religion of any sort.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
doesn't matter boys. You may be right about Rove because he has just won again, as has Bush and the religous right. Democrats are forced to give the religous left a voice now, forced to concede that religion has a voice in their party. This Just means that religion will have more of a voice in policies of both parties. Rove is smooth indeed.
quote:Originally posted by Griffon: Folks, why can't we all get excited about a religious voice that rises in challenge to the fundamentalist religious right? Seriously, a good debate on issues will ensue. It will force the public square to discuss issues like poverty, homelessness, war, militarism, exporting democracy, addiction, hunger and others. Would that not be more helpful than "hate Bush" and "hate Clinton?" We could debate issues that hit lives directly instead of who has the most photogenic face or the highest bank account? We could get past the cosmetic issues and to the real stuff, because that is what we as Christians and I am sure other faiths discuss.
Back to my point, as soon as deity followers 'get' unorganized, don't have the mask of the organization to parade behind, the sooner the humanitarian within can truly emerge and thus can begin a real debate. Until than, it's Rove vs. Rove. Big deal...rah rah!
Posts: 1235 | From: Anacortes, WA | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
If it gets the focus off of conspiracy theories and personalities I'm for it. I like that religion has a voice in both parties Tex. I believe their voice needs to be heard, and the dems now having to listen to religon, rather than ignore it, makes me very happy.
posted
I'm actually hoping that the democratic left is more the voice of Reverand Dr. Martin Luther King resonating. It is not Rove vs Rove. It is the left being forced to concede that in order to win elections, they must give the religous left a voice. That is how Rove won, he forced that concession. Yes I agree we definitely do not need two Roves.
posted
"I am basically "Christian" in that I understand the *message* as it pertains to me... good to see you challenge the "fundamental religious right" yet, must say...almost to a T, anytime in my life someone has entered espousing "Christian gospels"? Somehow I get hurt.. In my own, anecdotally-based life, the "church" has no more idea/grasp on Jesus than a homeless person has on high-finance."
Tex, For your experience I am sincerely sorry. The more so because I know it to be too often the case. Let me take a different approach that I believe to be consistent with what Jesus taught. This is how I see myself:
I am a sinner. I will fail at times to love God and love my neighbor. I do not have full understanding of how to deal with ethical dilemas our world is confronted with. Without the grace of God and God's mercy, I will always fail to do justice. My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus' blood and righteousness.
Were you and I to meet Tex, there would be times we were the best of friends and other times I would disappoint you. As Paul said, I am chief among sinners. The very things I want to do, those I do not do. The very things I don't want to do, those things I do. You know, we haven't always agreed. And I have at times frustrated you. I am a flawed creature in God's creation and you are too. My prayer is that armed with God's grace, this sinner will treat you better than you have experienced in the past. And know, through our discussions on this site, this deeply broken person (me) idealist that I am, you help me to grow in grace; meaning our conversations challenge me to love my neighbor even when we mightily disagree.
I do not believe the church is necessary for salvation, nor is listening to me, only Christ and Him crucified. I believe every person's theology to be inadequate, for the only perfect understanding of God is the mind of Christ.
I hope you see I am low on the totem pole and hoping to grow. I haven't arrived, but I'm on the journey. And though we do at times disagree, you are welcome to walk beside me, maybe even a little ahead of me on the journey we all take.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
"Why must I restrict a voice to oppose the religious right to a religious voice. What the rightwing religious fanatics prropose is unamericaan. So why can't you argue against them without it being based on religion. I don't have any problem arguing against their absurd selfish attitudes and claims without envoking religion of any sort."
Your religion/belief system is atheism bdgee. Feel free to argue against our self-less attitudes. The Constitution guarantees however our access to the public square as assuredly as it does yours. Freedom of Religion, non-establishment clause, is not proscription or prohibition of religion.
"The Constitutioon guarantees us a Government free of religious involvememt."
No it does not. It guarantees us the freedom to allow our religious views to be expressed publicly. The Establishment clause is a proscription against state religion, not freedom from religion. That is just a new gloss of the court system. Violation of our Civil Rights. Amazing, the Civil Rights movement came from the church movement, now the courts try to legislate it out.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by john wayne: If it gets the focus off of conspiracy theories and personalities I'm for it. I like that religion has a voice in both parties Tex. I believe their voice needs to be heard, and the dems now having to listen to religon, rather than ignore it, makes me very happy.
"their voice needs to be heard"
frankly speaking? "their voice[s]" got us in this mess...
if you'll notice? the "hot-spots" in the world are NOT about organic vegetables, not about cholesterol, not about mercury-poisoning, not about energy-audit-deficits, not about global-warming, not about "bad movies/poor TV," not about sketchy-satellite-reception, not about the national electric code, not about domes vs pyramids....
posted
"if you'll notice? the "hot-spots" in the world are NOT about organic vegetables, not about cholesterol, not about mercury-poisoning, not about energy-audit-deficits, not about global-warming, not about "bad movies/poor TV," not about sketchy-satellite-reception, not about the national electric code, not about domes vs pyramids...."
you're right, hot-spots today are about politics, land and power. Secular basis couched in religious terms Tex. The fights are over property, real and intellectual, and who gets the big chair. Always the same struggle. Who has the most toys?
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Griffon: "if you'll notice? the "hot-spots" in the world are NOT about organic vegetables, not about cholesterol, not about mercury-poisoning, not about energy-audit-deficits, not about global-warming, not about "bad movies/poor TV," not about sketchy-satellite-reception, not about the national electric code, not about domes vs pyramids...."
you're right, hot-spots today are about politics, land and power. Secular basis couched in religious terms Tex. The fights are over property, real and intellectual, and who gets the big chair. Always the same struggle. Who has the most toys?
deception-alert:
plenty of "no-toy" areas are seemingly quite willing to endeavor to persevere, without pressing a terrorist agenda.
posted
"Your religion/belief system is atheism bdgee."
No, it just isn't something you can lock into you personal definition or preferences. Were you so good a Methodist as you believe you are, you not only would be true to your own beliefs, but would respect others being true to theirs.
Mostly you are 180 degrees from knowning anything about me. I'll give you a hint.......Read the Constitution.
"No it does not. It guarantees us the freedom to allow our religious views to be expressed publicly. The Establishment clause is a proscription against state religion, not freedom from religion. That is just a new gloss of the court system. Violation of our Civil Rights. Amazing, the Civil Rights movement came from the church movement, now the courts try to legislate it out."
That's BS. There is NO PART of the constitution guaranteeing you the right to be religious, only that the Government will not allow ANY law concerning religion, pro or con, directly or by construction......no law opposing it, no law supporting it. NO LAW! No law however seemingly innocent. And any law baased on religion or its practice would be one respecting religion.
There is quite specifically no place in the Constitution granting anyone the right to express any religion publicly.
What it says is that Congress shall make no law respecting religion.
There is no statement in the Constitution that grants to anyone freedom of religion. Indeed, the phrase "freedom of religion" is absent from the Constitution.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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