As school began a few weeks ago, I began my practice of baking a dessert once a week for seminary. Now in the midst of my hectic life, this may seem to be a waste of time. Several people have expressed that concern. But that dessert is an embodied covenant I made with God when this journey first began. I asked God in prayer for a spiritual discipline I could cultivate while at seminary hoping God would lead me into deeper relationship not only with God, but with those around me as well.
The answer to that prayer led me into the practice of the discipline of service to others. It is not always convenient: this week I missed most of a football game and last week I got up at 4 a.m. to finish a special tart.
well, i was reading this and something just clicked... something about pastry baking, and the passive aggressive part, and the martyr complex all add up to one thing griffo....
when did you fall in love with your first boy? was it in 2nd grade or even earlier? it's OK.... i know a church that will welcome you and encourage you to follow your true path... it's the Unitarian Universalists... and? they tend to be intellectual as well.... so they will tolerate your verbosity and aspirations....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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In the complete inability to take a hint (not just "a" hint, but many many hintS...and not just hint, but HINT), this pest certainly does resemble the dweeb.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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I agree that the Unitarian Universalists do put up with about anything. But to expect them to accept that much self centered verbosity might be a stretch.
In actuallity, the United Methodist accept about as much. They are a very toleerant bunch. One thing that they generally shun (I won't suggest they accept that self centered verbosity, but that's not a question of religion or the activities of their church, just his manners) is "recriuting"......these are Methodist, after all. But maybe "in person" rather than in the anonimity of the internet, he shows better taste and respects the opinions of others.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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I love a lunch of grilled pineapple and home-made vanilla bean-lavender honey ice cream.
Christocentric Universalist is not connected with the movement and church you describe. It is an understanding of how God will give everyone an opportunity to choose S/he (this is the non-gender specific, unpronouncable name some feminist theologians use for a pronoun to refer to God. It draws comparison to the Hebrew tetragrammation "YHWH."
Christocentric Universalism merely says Christ is the savior of everyone in this specific way: In Christ, God restored free will and choice lost in the Fall. Once again, we can choose totally self-less acts of "chesed" which is inadequately translated as "loving kindness" and "shalom" which again is inadequately translated as "peace." So now, you are free to choose God or not, before Christ you simply would not choose Christ. This is manifest within the Ordo Salutis, Order of Salvation, as prevenient grace. It is on the basis of prevenient grace that God promises to judge humanity on the basis of the grace they have received.
But what does that mean for those 1) who never have the opportunity to be introduced to Christ? and 2) who reject Christ? On the basis of the grace you have received, you will face God. This is true because when God gives grace as embodied in Christ, God gives God's self. So for those who never hear the name of Jesus like the Waodani people who were killing themselves off prior to Christian mission, God judges on the basis of them not knowing killing was wrong.
Now prevenient grace, sometimes called preventing grace, also works in another way, to convict us, make us regret our actions so we will change from destructive patterns of life and community. But what about the second question, about those who use the freedom given to them to reject God's grace? BRB
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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So in Christocentric Universalism what happens to those who, when in this life or beyond, they are called upon to accept or reject the God who created them? They are given a place, a refuge, to prevent them from having to be in God's presence. As it was said in the 17th Century by a converted believer of atheism on his death-bed, "Is there a God? Hell would be a refuge if it saved me from your frown."
For those who reject God, God's love has created a place for them where God's holiness will not be a pain to them. No one is the arbiter of another save Christ who said, "No one comes to the Father except through me." Now the religious right uses this and combines it with our independent streak to say, "You have to make a decision, a bold statement of faith, to be saved." The religious center and the Religious Left say, "Christ has done the work, Christ chose you." Christocentric Universalism is a statement about the freedom God gave us in Christ, not about denominational ideologies.
Our freedom proceeds from God is embodied in Jesus and communicated to us through the Holy Spirit. Political freedom has cost us much, true, full freedom cost us much, we should not give them away so cheaply to politicians' whims. The way the two political sides play this out is that the righties say "help those who are saved" or "help them as a bribe to get them saved." The Lefties and Centrists say, "Help them because they are sacred."
The tragedy is one side of the political aisle has a gift sitting on their doorstep, elections in '06 and '08, but they refuse to pick it up because the gift comes via the Religious Left and Center.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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There is no "Religious Left and Center" except as it lives in your weird imagination.
In case you have failed to do your homework, every part of the "churches'" membership in the U.S., that isn't of the far rightwing extreme, has been declining for 35 years.
That isn't the fault of the democratic party, as you want to lay the blame (as it's described in RNC "talking points"), but due to the eagerness of the leadership of the "churches" to constantly preach against civil liberty and play politics.
Get off the attack mode BS that is nothing but a disguised diatribe from the RNC.
It's old, fella....and worse than just dishonest.....IT'S BORING!
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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Now let's get to the support for what I am saying:
Cornel West, hardly an advocate for the church, wrote an excellent book in 2004 called, Democracy Matters, in which he tasks both parties for their un-Democratic behavior. In his discussion of the nihilism in the religious right and in the Democratic Party (pp. 30-36), West describes Bush and the Republican elite as "evangelical nihilists, drunk with power and driven by grand delusions of American domination of the world." I think this is a fairly good representation of the Bush administration's application of power.
Equally incisive and scathing though, is West's estimation of the Democratic Party, "The elites in the Democratic Party...are paternalistic nihilists who have become ineffectual by having bought into the corruptions of the power-hungry system."
Now Cornel West is a great writer, scholar, speaker and challenging interviewee, but one thing West is not, he could never be called a conservative. His chapter on nihilism in America is absolutely brilliant and should be a wake up call to all people who follow politics: Democracy Matters
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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Not according to the data I have seen, though it does seem to be more pronounced in "red" areas.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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Cornel West, another Democrat, also says this of my former party:
"Democratic Party elites are too often unwilling to tell the American people just how connected they and their Republican colleagues are to powerful corporations and influencial lobbyists."
In effect he calls the Democrats the hope of wresting power out of the Rovite hands and then says, they are too ineffectual to accomplish it because powerful forces own them. "...the vast majority of Democratic Party elites are rendered impotent by their timidity and paralysed by their cupidity (their courting of corporate donors)." p. 35
And if that sounds indicting of the Democrats you ought to see how he speaks of the Republicans and especially the religious right.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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As God was gracious enough to inspire my words today, we just added 8 new members by commitment of faith today with renewal commitments from 35 people one church nears 500 members. Funny how God works ain't it? Here we are with two politically liberal preachers and we are growing. Praise God!
"It's old, fella....and worse than just dishonest.....IT'S BORING!"
No dishonesty in my words, do the research, but if bored Bdgee, feel free to go to another thread. There are more exciting ones around, as you would define exciting. As I've said before, given that we absolutely don't agree, why not start a nice "hate Bush" thread and if this one dies for lack of interest that's fine with me. There are many other issues to discuss.
But this is my pledge to all of you. I am staying to my topics, anyone is welcome to discuss with me, say anything they want, I simply will not respond to everything that comes down the chute. On the other hand, you will not find me invading your threads with my agenda. I understand we are at an impasse and it's over worldviews. Those are unlikely to change and I am not trying to change your opinions. I am presenting an alternative to the "hate Bush," "hate Hillary" mantra of contemporary politics.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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Here's Stephen L Carter's take on the Religion and Politics relationship. He wrote "The Dissent of the Governed: a meditation on Law, Religion and Loyalty" in 1998. "Our most famous progressive examples of this subversive aspect of the religions are the abolitionist movement and the civil rights movement, both of which were largely inspired by the shared meanings of religious communities that they were sharply different from the meanings that the larger society in those days proposed; both of which changed the nation radically for the better; and both of which give the lie to the constitutional canard that there is something wrong, or even something suspicious, about religious argument in American public life."
He drives this point home in the next sentence: "Had the nation tried to enforce in the 1860s or the 1960s the depressing rules for public dialogue that liberals too often endorse today, our history - certainly my history, as an African American - would have been radically different...for the worse."
Why would that be unimportant? Why would that be "dweeby?" Because its religion in the public square? These above two contemporary authors, from preceeding and present posts, point to the need for the growing Religious Left to be heard and the adversarial position Democratic leadership has taken toward religion. Both from a minority perspective that Democrats used to be able to take for granted. No longer and part of that key is religion. It seems rather obvious that some, not all, in my former party prefer to see the party lose, than to seek dialog with religious people that would tip the balance back to the Democrats. That's not a winning strategy.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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So now, having demonstrated a strategy for the Dems to re-take Congress and the White House; having demonstrated why the Democrats will not choose that option because the leadership is afraid of it and finally having demonstrated the great and positive impact religion in the political landscape can be, since there has been no serious challenge to this observation, if there are no other comments or questions, I may move on to another thread.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Griffon: But wit is not the soul
whatever preacher boy.. You are boring people to death.. Try making a point... Try making that point with less than a hundred words..
Posts: 2965 | Registered: Aug 2005
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"...if bored Bdgee, feel free to go to another thread."
In yet another way, you intrude on reason.
You are intentionally ignoring the fact that you are not in charge and have no place telling people what they should do.....so much so, that you feign ignorance of the actual question:
If you don't like how folks here don't like the way you treat them and their concerns, then you are free to........
Now don't get me wrong. I do not say that to afford you another point of contention to go off on for ever and ever, assailing me with aspersions, as is your wont.
So, hoping to assure you I speak without ill feeling, I'll admit that I really don't mean to suggest that you act that way with ill intent or in any planned or construed scheme on your part. I have come to believe you really are dumb and ignorant enough to not know better.
You see, I haven't forgotten that you admitted you came here, specifically, to cause problems.
We don't feel any need of your approval and even less need for the trouble you came here to cause.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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"You see, I haven't forgotten that you admitted you came here, specifically, to cause problems."
So you now reveal you never really understood my intent, but the hints are scattered in 691 posts. Just a suggestion, don't want to give you the impression I'm telling you what to do but, keep searching, put down the insulting gig, it just amuses me.
"whatever preacher boy..You are boring people to death.."
Yet you choose to enter in. So much for boredom.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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"grifoon? you still haven't addressed my direct question about why the Islamic clerics chose to take Jerusalem for themselves..."
Sorry Glass, I must have missed that one. Was that in this thread or the Jerusalem one? That was not a dodge, just an over-sight because of all the fam mail.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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i gave a short presentation on page three about Laylat-ul Mi'raj so people would get an idea about what kind of 1000+ long year war we have been and are up against
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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No such thing as intrusion into an open board. Country club yes, social club, yes, rotarian club, yes, service association,yes, nobiliary institution, yes, but open forum means I did not and cannot intrude. I do understand the stress it put on the system though. The invitation is in the opportunity to enter. Close the door if you don't want strangers coming to dinner. Speaking of which skewers on the barbeque are great.
Problem ain't that I'm here, it's that we don't agree.
-------------------- God's peace be with you A salaam a lakum Shalom Chevarim Posts: 896 | From: Iowa | Registered: Jul 2006
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