posted
Does anybody know how the share structure is affected if/when we move up to the OTC? I'm just asking because if we're really naked shorted this badly and the insiders have more shares than the outstanding, then where does that leave us? I'm in this, but am worried at the same time as I'm not sure if this has happened before. I apologize if this has been answered already. I haven't had a chance to read the whole board. Thanks for any info.
Posts: 26 | From: Madison, WI | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Is it possible for the MMs to cover their naked position if the insiders hold more shares than the O/S? The insiders would have to sell enough shares to the MMs to allow for the float, right? It's either that, or the float has to be bought out entirely, which is probably not possible...hmmm...but at $10/share... yeah right.
Thanks for the reply. I'm just trying to understand how this is going to work. Has anybody seen this before? Also, it seems like with the naked position and moving to the new board (assuming it's all true), there's very little downside to our positions here. Good luck to all!
Posts: 26 | From: Madison, WI | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Since the insiders hold a great deal it only helps us because the only way the MMs can cover is by pushing up the price. When the MMs have to cover short positions it is one of the rare times they really get caught with their pants down and they are the ones chasing a run. But as the price increases more people will drop off as they make their 33%, 100%, 200%, etc.. whatever they are looking for.
-------------------- Money often costs too much. - Emerson
**ALL POSTS ARE IMHO, DO YOUR OWN REASEARCH.** Posts: 458 | From: CT | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
bellwetherreport.com: The Bellwether Report Issues a Mid-Day Alert for LoftWerks, Inc
By M2 Last Update: 5/19/2006 1:04:01 PM Data provided by
May 19, 2006 (M2 PRESSWIRE via COMTEX) -- LoftWerks, Inc (OTCPK:LFWK), is a company that our research team will be tracking over the ensuing weeks. They recently came out with a significant corporate development, causing a market stir. The BWR Research Team will continue to bring its subscriber's cutting edge research tools, and second to none customer service.
LoftWerks, Inc engages in the development, rental, and sale of lofts primarily in Detroit, Michigan., announced on Friday morning that it will file its Form 10 registration for the NASD OTC bulletin board with the Securities and Exchange Commission within the next 14 business days.
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LoftWerks (LFWK) intends to respond to all comments from the SEC in a timely manner in order to become a fully reporting Company. The Company's Attorneys and Certified Public Accountants are experienced in the exchange move process and are ready to expedite it. LoftWerks (LFWK) management feels that the filing will provide the investing public with current information on its business activities and performance.
CEO Steve Sulja commented: "Months of hard work are finally yielding the filing for Loftwerks first exchange registration filing. The process has been challenging and rewarding for all involved. The document filing will be our best work yet in achieving the shareholder value and recognition for the projects we have acquired." LoftWerks, Inc has enjoyed a nice steady run since the day of this announcement as investors see the value in this micro-cap company. Currently, however this company is trading down 14.00% on decent volume as the company experience significant loss this morning as investors sentiment seems to have changed.
Currently trading at $0.024 on volume of 1.9 million, it will be interesting to see how this company is able to increase shareholder value and growth to make for a brighter future. The BWR Research Team will continue to follow the market sentiment on this company and numerous others.
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The Bellwether Report will continue to research all of the markets to bring you exciting opportunities!! If you are interested in receiving more information on these small or large cap opportunities as well as other features of our site, feel free to sign up for a complimentary subscription to the #1 online investment tool www.bellwetherreport.com.Posts: 23 | From: Wichita,Kansas | Registered: May 2006
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posted
LFWK, NDOL and EGSR are my only plays right now. Most in LFWK and NDOL. Let's go for a ride.
Posts: 2309 | From: Minnesota | Registered: Feb 2006
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In regards again to the naked short selling, I understand people will sell out while the MMs are covering and pushing the price up. BUT, what if, hypothetically, the public float gets totally bought out and covered by the MMs. The insiders supposedly still have more shares than the O/S remaining. Does that mean the MMs would have to raise the price high enough to convince the insiders to sell? Just curious as it's an interesting situation that the insiders have by doing what they did. I agree it's good for us if all of this is true. I'm just curious as to what's going to actually happen with the share structure.
Posts: 26 | From: Madison, WI | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by kdb83182: Since the insiders hold a great deal it only helps us because the only way the MMs can cover is by pushing up the price. When the MMs have to cover short positions it is one of the rare times they really get caught with their pants down and they are the ones chasing a run. But as the price increases more people will drop off as they make their 33%, 100%, 200%, etc.. whatever they are looking for.
but if the company own entire free float as they wrote in some older PR, how can that be solved? What we own then? I have accumulated over 1 milion of shares in this week and i hope i really own them in reality Posts: 287 | From: prague | Registered: Jan 2006
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The savvy long-term investors never chase stocks up. For the most part that is momentum players and daytraders where most of it or what follows is dumb money. Instead the long-term investors use a couple of simple strategies in order to position themselves. One is to find a stock no one immediately sees has huge potential and accumulate. Long-term investors are not interested in trading against the public mind or the dumb money. That's where the majority of the money can be made but even more can be made if the base of a stock is held extremely strong by investors. However the second is not to doubt the research which is the underlying basis for going long and holding.
More and more investors are winning the game nowadays despite all bashers that float through the Internet that has become part of the game. Floor traders of market makers often watch CNBC, news wires and bulletin boards in order to follow the market during trading session. OTC BB market makers (MMs) don't use fundamental and technical analysis. However, what they do realize is a lot of dumb money does use this newest nitch charting or TA (Technical Analysis) to run a stock either up or down. To the MMs this is like taking candy from a baby. Simply they will paint the tape and use whatever tactic to affect the charting bands. Thus the public and dumb money they will have eating out of their hands. Effectively the MMs can show a strong stock growing weak by manipulating the close price in order to generate selling volume, delaying trading time to manipulate trading activities, or even stalling the ask without honoring orders to hold a stock price.
MMs follow a simple code of business when making a market in a stock especially an OTC BB. That is the level that stocks will seek that yields the most volume. Now this is very important because they make money on the volume buying at the bid and selling at the ask. In other words, by making the market they are buying low and selling high. Now smart money adheres to that rule, so do all the market makers. They could careless whether the stock is at $83 or at $0.23. All they care about is the action thus being able to sell stock at the offer (The high) and buy stock at the bid (The low). To increase their profitability, they make the spread as great as possible on as many shares as they can especially if the volume falls off.
When they have mostly all "buy" orders, that's not the price that's going to yield the most volume. They need both buy and sells to get the maximum action. Remember, MMs play the volume. If the volume decreases and there are mostly Buys that become a one way volume, Buy volume. So what they do is let the stock run up to a price where it runs out of steam. They fill all the buy orders there that they can and then comes the pullback one way or another naturally or induced. During the pull back they can buy tons of shares and flip them to those averaging down or trying to catch the bounce. At some price, the stock will be relatively stable and yield the most volume. Now that is the average price you will see
The average price is the point where a stock seeks a level where MMs can profit on the most volume. So during the day that is the price that MMs and momentum/day traders want to see the stock at. Why? Because they know the public and dumb money was chasing the price thing up. Most of the time, the MMs love a flurry of Market Orders which is a dead sign of an artificial run or momentum. Merely it is money in the bank for them. Most get hung in a momentum or day trade or by the tactics of Market makers, who are in the business to screw the public every chance they get and the NASD is not going to do anything about it. They are merely making the market liquid is there reasoning.
The market makers have created an added complication to the OTCBB's chaos of the already volatile intra-day price movements created by dumb money, momentum and day-traders. MMs can not relate to long-term holders in the OTC BB. That makes absolutely no sense what so ever. They feel a large percentage of trades in the OTC BB market consist of short-term or day-trades, MMs merely view the barrage of buy and sell orders as relatively neutral to the market. How they figure it is when the average dumb money buys shares in a company, the MMs feel or rather know with some certainty it is very likely that dumb money will want to sell back those shares relatively quick on the slightest drop.
Now somewhat comfortable with this logic the MMs merely short sells into the buying and attempts to take the stock down in an effort to "shake out" the weak. Since it is tough to know for sure whether a move is the beginning of a trend, or a routine shake out, this type of deception works quite well for the MMs. What the long-termers do to a stock is surprise the MMs because instead of falling the shorting has no effect and the price goes up. Now that puts the MM at selling low through shorting and thus having to buy high in order to cover.
Boy, when this happens, the MMs are not very happy campers. The investors and traders are supposed to be doing that no them. Now it becomes time to pull out every trick and tactic in the book in order to attempt to get a Bear Raid at every dollar mark or percent from where the stock started. Could be a penny in smaller priced securities? What MMs do is give you a chance to make a small amount of money for your momentum and day trading style by shorting it at these levels and trying to get a bear raid each time. Each failure is compounding the MMs short position so they let it go to the next level. Now come more deliberate tactics MMs use to coerce Bear Raid or panic selling.
Once the MM is caught short and the strength of the buy is overpowering the MM will want to cover his short position. So the MMs call up one of his friendly MMs and says some like "the weather is sure rough today." The MM along with the other "friendly MM initiates a down tick about the same time. Now this can also be done with a certain amount of shares such as an infamous 100 shares flag. This down tick gives the illusion of weakness designed to hopefully begin the bear raid of selling. The fickle, fearful, day trader, momentum and short term begin to sell out allowing the MM to cover his short position at lower prices. They will move it down quickly to get it to a price of least financial damage. Problem they have is long-term investors in the OTC BB. They start accumulating and buying comes flying in when they take it too far thus the MMs took it to the point of volume again and not only investors the other MMs step in the make money on the spread.
Alas the poor MM does not get to cover. Now comes various tactics like stalling, boxing, or even locking the Bid and Ask for a while.
Of course, MMs aggressively deny any sort of collusion designed to fix quotes or spreads, but a recent SEC investigation tells another story.
MMs have a vast resource of tactics and it would take probably more than my lifetime to figure them all out.
So how do investors somehow manage to overcome the obvious deception in OTCBB arena? One answer is indirection trading style by going long which the MMs do not expect. In the war between investors and public companies on the OTC BB vs the MMs, if the MMs have all the advantages due to position or other factors, direct confrontation such as momentum or day trading hitting the stock is a definite death sentence.
However, an indirect approach tends to weaken the path of least resistance before slowly overcoming it. The most effective way is long-term investors slowly accumulating and holding thus drawing the MMs out of its defenses making them as naked as their short position. This is war so this slow accumulation and holding for the long term easily achieves the desired effect to force MMs to cover and knock off the tactics or bury themselves deeper.
The MMs when caught will especially use every trick and tactic in the book to get a Bear Raid thus playing on the individual fear of most people. The MMs feel they have information and position advantages over the investors as long as the holding of the stock is in weak hands or short term holders. Since they are OTC BB MMs who believe all OTCBB companies are not worth investing and management is ineffective regardless what is happening within the company. Furthermore, MMs know they are in the position to impose a great deal of influence in OTC BB stocks trading when it suits their needs.
This inherent power of position enables the MMs to move the markets at any time up or down. As a result, the only way to draw them out of their favorable position is going long. Now this does not mean just any company but to effectively nail the MMs, Longs must find the great company on the floor and accumulate long before the MM tactics and games begin.
Posts: 122 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by mabwas: what is the possibility of reverse split and if it happens that which ratio?
Won't happen, that was a technique used to get flippers out of the stock long ago. With the insiders owning more than the float, we will not need a reverse split at all. That is the best thing about this. Look for .10-.20 on the next run and if dividends are announced....it can go to .75 or so easy.
posted
Auburn you ask questions that are on the PR's. I am not trying to be negative, but you need to do your own DD. Its on the PRs it would be best if you look it up. Best to you in your investing.
quote:Originally posted by mabwas: what is the possibility of reverse split and if it happens that which ratio?
Won't happen, that was a technique used to get flippers out of the stock long ago. With the insiders owning more than the float
if they own more then float, what we own then? naked stocks? let say they will be giving dividends and decided to sell their free float(which they claim to have all) only for 1 buck per stock and more...will MM have to buy stocks for such price from them?
Posts: 287 | From: prague | Registered: Jan 2006
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Since the company owns more than the float, we are holding naked short stock. They are phantom shares. If you were to call and ask your broker for certs, chances are pretty good that you WOULD NOT GET THEM.
If they go with the dividends, the MM's would be forced to pay us dividends. Since no one really knows how many shares are shorted we have no idea what this will cost the MMs. They would rather buy the shares back than to pay dividends. In reality the price has no limit until the MMs are done covering.
The answer to your question is YES and NO. Its a matter of MM's covering. They are not going to agree to buy shares at $1, when we are talking about over 100,000,000 shares. They can buy them cheaper from the public. I am sure many people would be happy with .30 a share BUT if you look at the true potential you will see that this stock can go to the $2+ range this year.
That may sound unbelievable but check the PR's and you will see how large the company is. There will be very rich people created from this stock.
posted
okay, did i miss something..ive been checking up on this stock and ive been in for abt 3 weeks, been reading the PRs over and over, and looking for lots of other info on the company...then im reading on another message board and there talking abt this stock opening up at $1+ 2mrrw ...did i miss something.??? i dont see anything that would push this up that high w.o out anything coming out..i knw there have been many and many of stocks go from the $.03-$.10 range up to the $1-4 dollar range and etc, and especially with such a low amt of shares out plus going to the OTC....so whats ppls thought on this..??? I knw this is a great Long hold, but im tring to find out where they are getting there info.?
-------------------- Dont take my advice, due your own DD Posts: 711 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Apr 2006
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Read the posts above yours...and you will find some answers...nothing happened...people are just talking "what if's" and wishful thinking...about the shorting of the stock...you're not rich ...YET...sorry
-------------------- #1 Rule: Protect your capital! #2 Rule: Never fall for the BS on the boards! Posts: 8890 | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
lol...yea ive read most all of the post on here..but the other board i was on..there talking abt the scramble from shares tomorrow etc, as if someone knew something was going to happen 2mrrw...well ill read them again...lol..but hey i will NOT complain if it opens at a $1+ 2mrrw..haha...
-------------------- Dont take my advice, due your own DD Posts: 711 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
I'm loaded up in this one. Thanks to Ohio Trader. I'm watching your posts last days and I see good work on your dd. The stock is ready to jump up. Some crazy moves last couple days. In at .026 out 0.95 Time to fly!
Posts: 130 | From: Dallas | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
no doubt....if this thing goes to $1 more, then im out of debt..woo hoo...so im gonna have to take ohio trader out to steak dinner next time in in Ohio and maybe catch a buckeyes Game.. GO LFWK GO BUCKS..!!!!!!! haha
-------------------- Dont take my advice, due your own DD Posts: 711 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
Yeah, but for some reason ameritrade many time adds an extra "0" when dealing with pinks. I don't know why but I have noticed that on many. Whats up with the spread?
-------------------- Money often costs too much. - Emerson
**ALL POSTS ARE IMHO, DO YOUR OWN REASEARCH.** Posts: 458 | From: CT | Registered: Jan 2006
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