quote:Originally posted by stocktrader22: Any random person can now jump in at less than $1.80 in the next two weeks and get the $15 value amount of shares. I've held for 3 months and it hasnt benefited me in any way over someone buying in tommorrow!
This sounds like whinning? Did you honestly think SEC rules were going to allow only certain shareholders to benefit. Not only that did you buy in at $1.80? I know I didn't I bought in alot cheaper. Not to mention this stock is going to be a heck of alot more valuable later this week. THIS IS NOT DILUTION SHAREHOLDERS!!!
It is not dilution when the new shares go directly into your accounts! Dilution is when new shares go directly into the "free" market. Only shareholders will recieve the new shares. If you feel like selling them back into the market you are diluting it not Rufus.
The more I think about this the better it gets.
Posts: 2717 | From: Eville,IN,USA | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by stocktrader22: Any random person can now jump in at less than $1.80 in the next two weeks and get the $15 value amount of shares. I've held for 3 months and it hasnt benefited me in any way over someone buying in tommorrow!
I agree this sucks for those of us who have been in for several months. My average share price is $1.89... maybe I can average down if we continue to drop... which I hope we don't
Posts: 942 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Jan 2006
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It is not dilution when the new shares go directly into your accounts! Dilution is when new shares go directly into the "free" market. Only shareholders will recieve the new shares. If you feel like selling them back into the market you are diluting it not Rufus.
The more I think about this the better it gets.
-------------------- Una Mas! Posts: 2717 | From: Eville,IN,USA | Registered: Feb 2004
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That is soooo true Tax!!! Thsi is what people are forgetting!!!!
It is not dilution when the new shares go directly into your accounts! Dilution is when new shares go directly into the "free" market. Only shareholders will recieve the new shares. If you feel like selling them back into the market you are diluting it not Rufus.
Hey when we get those extra shares we should all call our brokers & set our GTC sell orders * $300 & above..sounds like a plan!
-------------------- ..just remember....Family is EVERYTHING!! Posts: 3944 | From: Rochester, NY | Registered: Sep 2006
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So if I currently have 10,000 shares and on the 30th we are at $2.00 I will get an additional 65,000 shares for a total of 75,000 shares with a $150,000 value. If the price goes up to $5 a share I now have $375,000, $10pps=$750,000, $15pps=1,125,000
ANY WAY YOU PLAY IT, IT LOOKS GOOD TO ME!
Posts: 942 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by NEL: So if I currently have 10,000 shares and on the 30th we are at $2.00 I will get an additional 65,000 shares for a total of 75,000 shares with a $150,000 value. If the price goes up to $5 a share I now have $375,000, $10pps=$750,000, $15pps=1,125,000
ANY WAY YOU PLAY IT, IT LOOKS GOOD TO ME!
Exactly Guys & Gals...........Pop open that Champagne!!!
-------------------- ..just remember....Family is EVERYTHING!! Posts: 3944 | From: Rochester, NY | Registered: Sep 2006
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For argument's sake, let's just call this a forward split, because fundamentally speaking that's what it is.
By and large, forward splits are looked upon favorably on 'the big board', because it usually means that a company's PPS has gotten so huge, that it prohibits, or discourages Joe Investor from jumping in. By increasing the number of shares through a f/s, there is an increased liquidity and an ability to move more money, more quickly. However, a forward split, no matter how you cook it- is still a form of dilution.
There is a possible scenario that Rufus might be cooking up- if he believes the key to moving this stock is to give investors and MMs more ability to purchase shares on the open market, then an increased o/s makes sense. Perhaps Rufus felt his hands were still being tied by the shorters, and he needed a way to give new investors and the MMs working for him an ability to hold a position without having to wait for the shorts to settle.
If this is true, the key to doing it successfully is to do it without undermining investor confidence. He hasn't done it with his recent actions- with a late day 10-K release and a confusing interpretation of Option C.
A nice PR explaining why he chose a modified Option C, along with a realistic portrayal of the book value would go a long way in keeping people from panic selling.
Still slicing through the 10-K while trying to do my 'real' job. What a pain- both tasks.
Posts: 949 | From: Little Rock, AR | Registered: Dec 2005
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Dilution What does it Mean? A reduction in earnings per share of common stock that occurs through the issuance of additional shares or the conversion of convertible securities.
Investopedia Says... Adding to the number of shares outstanding reduces the value of holdings of existing shareholders.
Even if we don't have to pay for them there are still more shares which reduces the EPS and value. It's not the usual Dilution that we are accustomed to, meaning companies selling shares into the market. Like I said earlier let's work together. I won't bury my head in the sand and I hope no one else does.
GLTA Wally
Posts: 3255 | From: Los Angeles California | Registered: Jan 2006
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Actually, I should amend my statement...the bashers are now sick of discussing a perceived dilution and are back to complaining about the auditor....LOL...The handbook for bashers in full force.
-------------------- "I will smack you in the mouth, I'm Neil Diamond"- Will Ferrell Posts: 4190 | From: Rhode Island | Registered: Mar 2006
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So, if theyre not going to dilute, where will the extra shares come from to give to the shareholders, that one thing im having a tough time with.
Posts: 854 | From: Alpharetta, GA | Registered: Mar 2006
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The shares will come from the company treasury. THey will be issued by the company. Yes the shorts will have to cover them but unless we close at $15 or above more shares will be on the market.
GLTA Wally
Posts: 3255 | From: Los Angeles California | Registered: Jan 2006
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Hey...those were my questions...I sent him a PM before leaving work.
quote:Originally posted by Chartwalker: Jesuspower1 asnswers some questions.... ---------------------------------------------- I understand the stock split forward thing...just having a hard time understanding a couple of things.
1). How do you see the stock going to $100 per share based on the response after the 10-K. Not everyone understands what is really going on with the company. I have personally talked to three of the Executives from July, before they became a PUBLICLY TRADED company and I was at peace with their conversation and believed that they were truly being honest and had great things in store for anyone who invested in this venture.
The book value of this company is OVER $100, which puts this CONSERVATIVELY traded at $300/share.
2). What happened to the very often repeated re-set and move to Nasdaq? The Fat lady hasn't sung yet! We can't know everything or every move the company is going to make or we would have INSIDER info!
It takes 30 -45 days to get to Nasdaq when requirements start being met. The PR that was put out regarding the application to the Nasdaq and the contact with the market maker was on Sept. 13th.
Do the math, On November 30th, it will be over 45 days, so my take is that they just bought more time because they are going STRAIGHT to the Nasdaq.
3). Why was it in the shareholders best interest to wait until the last minute to release the 10-K? Because they wanted it to support the PPS of $15 / share and their facilitation to the NASDAQ, which is going to bring in Billions!
4). What happened to the "Rock Wall Street" and "you will all be happy on Monday" statements. We haven't seen it all yet. It's obvious the 10K is not the BOMB we are waiting for!
5). Why does it appear that Rufus hates the shorts more than he loves the shareholders? He seems to be playing games with them at our expense. That's your take on this! That's the SPIN that's been added! I see him as LOVING us and wanting to protect us and make us prosperous. It takes time to get things done...ROME wasn't built in a day. Most millionaires work their whole lives amassing their wealth.
A final word: This seems like we are just buying a bit more time in elementary school (OTCBB) trying to patch up some disagreements before we move on to college (Nasdaq) and not have another opportunity to make amends due to moving away.
If Oct 30th comes and we are at $16 / share, the algebra equation will be invalid. BUT BY THAT POINT, the institutions will have hit their $5.00 buy-in target and the stock will have already skyrocketed to over $100 / share. Just watch and see, it ain't over yet.
The EXECS stated that they would work quickly and efficiently to resolve the 75 million shorts, this might be one of the ways they've had to comply with the SEC.
Remember, we have to learn to read the clues and think back on the things that were said in the interviews and PR's.
How quickly we forget!
I still have my $300,000 ferrari and will not take $500 for it. I will get my $300,000. PERIOD!
Hey...those were my questions...I sent him a PM a couple of hours ago.
-------------------- "If you go the Extra Mile there will be no Traffic Jams".
St. Matthew Posts: 885 | From: Dallas, Texas | Registered: Sep 2006
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The Corporation hereby chooses option (c) to reset the Share value to an equivalent of $15.00 by issuing additional shares to each shareholder of record as of the close of business on October 30, 2006 10 business days from the filing of this form 10-KSB. The shares wont be on the market until shareholders sell. I know Im not going to sell mine for $15. JMHO
Posts: 478 | From: Palm Desert, Ca. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 2004
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posted
When companies negativly dilute a stock they authorize a crap load of shares hand them over to the TA or hedge fund and the holder sells them into the market at current share price. Companies add liquidity to their security by forward spliting a security. (Which is what is happening here.) They authorize a crap load of shares hand them out "only" to current shareholders and the new holders to sell into the market.
So what is the difference? The holder!! TA and Hedge Funds do not have a reason to try and get the "best" market price for the shares, current market price is good enough. Shareholders are just the opposite. Wanting the best price possible.
It may match up with all definitions of dilution, but it certainly is NOT the same thing.
-------------------- Una Mas! Posts: 2717 | From: Eville,IN,USA | Registered: Feb 2004
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(c) set the Average Closing Price at $15.00 and pay no additional consideration to the holders of Company Shares receiving shares of Buyer's Stock as Merger Consideration (after giving effect to the allocation procedures set forth in Section 2.4 ). In the event that the Buyer elects option (c) described above, the Company may terminate this Agreement by providing the Buyer written notice of termination no later than one (1) Business Day prior to the Closing Date.
above is the wording in the 8K and 8KA below is the wording in the 10K.
The Corporation hereby chooses option (c) to reset the Share value to an equivalent of $15.00 by issuing additional shares to each shareholder of record as of the close of business on October 30, 2006 10 business days from the filing of this form 10-KSB.
Does anyone see a difference.
GLTA Wally
Posts: 3255 | From: Los Angeles California | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by TaxBack04: When companies negativly dilute a stock they authorize a crap load of shares hand them over to the TA or hedge fund and the holder sells them into the market at current share price. Companies add liquidity to their security by forward spliting a security. (Which is what is happening here.) They authorize a crap load of shares hand them out "only" to current shareholders and the new holders to sell into the market.
So what is the difference? The holder!! TA and Hedge Funds do not have a reason to try and get the "best" market price for the shares, current market price is good enough. Shareholders are just the opposite. Wanting the best price possible.
It may match up with all definitions of dilution, but it certainly is NOT the same thing.
You are right in as much as the typical dilution which is twice as bad but it still has the affect of adding shares to the market which will in effect reduce the EPS. Not agruing with you but it isn't the same as what was originally stated.
GLTA Wally
Posts: 3255 | From: Los Angeles California | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by 10of13: I had an emergency and had to leave just moments after the filing...what the heck happened? Anyone? Yeah, yeah i know...I'll start reading...
THey will make of the difference between the PPS and $15 by issuing additional dividend shares
Posts: 3255 | From: Los Angeles California | Registered: Jan 2006
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10- Confusion of 10K caused panic selling eod imo.
Most (including me) know how this will all effect pps on 10/30..
The Corporation hereby chooses option (c) to reset the Share value to an equivalent of $15.00 by issuing additional shares to each shareholder of record as of the close of business on October 30, 2006 10 business days from the filing of this form 10-KSB.
Posts: 551 | From: FL | Registered: Apr 2006
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quote:Originally posted by 10of13: I had an emergency and had to leave just moments after the filing...what the heck happened? Anyone? Yeah, yeah i know...I'll start reading...
Do you know how ?
Posts: 395 | From: algonquin,il,usa | Registered: Sep 2004
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10, it was uber ugly this afternoon, and the worst part about it??? IT MADE NO SENSE!!!!!!
-------------------- "I will smack you in the mouth, I'm Neil Diamond"- Will Ferrell Posts: 4190 | From: Rhode Island | Registered: Mar 2006
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You are such a sweetie to be so concerned...
Thanks guys/gals...Wally...I can't listen to the SPR...if there is anything "major" would you post it here? thanks!
quote:Originally posted by tyleemary:
quote:Originally posted by 10of13: I had an emergency and had to leave just moments after the filing...what the heck happened? Anyone? Yeah, yeah i know...I'll start reading...
Do you know how ?
-------------------- #1 Rule: Protect your capital! #2 Rule: Never fall for the BS on the boards! Posts: 8890 | Registered: Jan 2006
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