posted
Do you know that 40% of all gun sales are done in this country with no background check.
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise. Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008
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posted
But it's ok for you to have them...right ray?
If my kid was in that school it wouldn't change my mindset in any way , shape or form, because I am 100% certain that the weapon/s used in this crime had absolutely nothing to do with WHY the crime was committed....the weapon was the tool NOT the motive
You of all people here should want law abiding citizens to have and bear arms...and your stance on this issue solidifies to me that you are no better in your ability to think for yourself than cowpie is....
You are the democratic version of CCM
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It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
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Single parent families are not good, but neither is people keeping marriages together that have went bad, either one is hard on the kids and families.
All we can do is try to improve situations whether it be through our representives or at home, any way we can.
There is no easy solution to most things, especially when it comes to dealing with people.
Believe me the sixties had there home problems also, but a lot was kept pretty quiet within the house.
I am still learning of many bad situations my friends had, that were never discussed until there later years, some i knew back then.
Wasn't as rosey as many think, just because families were together.
The thing to all of this when we have events like this, we better watch out what we ask for and think about the long term consequences.
Find a simpler solution that maybe doesn't erode more of our rights, it might not be perfect, but nothing else will be either.
=
- [/QB]
i cut off part of your quote cuz i wanted to repsond to this part only Iwish, i hope you don't mind and 'pologise if you do:
nothing has really decayed IMO- changed, yes, and people who don't belong together are toxic. my personal experince in this is not very good. i have a successful marriage, and my wife and i have been thru everything except losing a chiold (thank you God) the rest of it we deal with. the people that i have seen who failed in theri marriages which is almost all of them, are due to people being uncompromising and unwilling to recognise and acknowledge their OWN weakness. It has always been one person who decides they are not at fault and the other is.... i screw up? i admit it to my spouse becuase that's the only way i can really improve myself anyway. it serves no purpose to deny your mistakes .. there is alot of selfishness in people, and with that goes hypocrisy.
society is no worse off today than it was when we owned slaves as business venture, or when we took the land from the Cherokee and Souix. We acted like the native Americans were savages becuase they were defending their way of life, that was dihonesty with ourselves.. no, things are not really differnt at all, women have more rights today and that is not decay, they should bne able to vote and get real jobs and careers...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by buckstalker: This has a real bad stench to it...
What...you think someone is behind this?? CIA??
I don't know enough to point fingers surf but this chit doesn't add up to me....
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if this was orchestrated, or at the very least manipulated, to strengthen the anti-gun agenda...
i read braodly in real sientific journals.
it is likely that there are peopel who have developed strong hypnotic/pschedellic drugs that can make people who are already weak-willed become puppet-like.
those people would be funded by the CIA and or any of a half-dozen other "invisble" oprations corporate or govt the line is blurred there.
pulling htis off twice would be very high risk, but it would be a requirement to shut other people up. once is an anomoly, but twice would make any whsitleblower stop. This would be as intimidating to whistlebnlowers as it gets, the message? We vcan not just kill you, we can destroy your life your future and the future of your famly in such awy that you will want to kill yourself. I'm speaking of beingth parent of killer like this. I don't know how i could deal with that. The "cosnpricay" problem here is that it would take a good bit of work to "program the shooters. There i not going to be a=one drug that makes them get the urge to do this IMO. It would take conditioning and other stuff. It is possible that the gunmen are nothe real perps, but are bieng dosed with drugs that literally destroy their memories and will, and then are put at the secen after soemeon else does the dirty deeds. Thta would be how it is being done if it is... It is very risky, but it is possible as long as you have people who can follow directions explicitly.
If i were designing ops like this? it would take only a half-dozen people with few specialised skils. the rela hard part is finding cold-blooded killers who are smart enough to think on their own in case of a problem but hard-wired to follow directions to teh absolute end. Even to knowing they are dead by their own hand if they get into a bind.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
here's the evidence; we have a soldier who left base at night and shot civies. March 11,2012
colorado shooter- July 20 21012.
connecticut shooter: Dec. 14th...
the timeline for conducting an expiremnt looks about right. a few months in between each to set the thing up..
i watched the colorado shooter in court on his first appearnace. he looked pithed to me, as in what we do to frogs before weopen them up to watch their heart beat. the first thing that occurred tome was thorazine. that's an anti-psychotic that hospitals gave to folks who were problematic and uncooperative, it's effectsd tend to become permanet with a few high doses.. it's old-school- they have way better chit now.
the soldier? he swears no recollection and he came back to base.. the colorado kid? orange hair to make the ID's? but he gave himslef up?
none of this stuff makes sense, we shouldn't be able to understand it, but that also provides cover for 'experiments" in human behavoior contorl...
there's no way to mkae a case here, and heck if i did? you'd never hear form me again anyway.... it stinks by it's very nature without a conspricay theory.
the battefeild arena would have been the highest level of control and plausible deniabilty if it went sideways. it was first.... it's all circumstantial, but people have been executed on circumstaintial evidence plenty of tiems
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Member Rated: posted 17-12-2012 01:06 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- But it's ok for you to have them...right ray?
If my kid was in that school it wouldn't change my mindset in any way , shape or form, because I am 100% certain that the weapon/s used in this crime had absolutely nothing to do with WHY the crime was committed....the weapon was the tool NOT the motive
You of all people here should want law abiding citizens to have and bear arms...and your stance on this issue solidifies to me that you are no better in your ability to think for yourself than cowpie is....
You are the democratic version of CCM --------------------------------------------
first of all lets get something striaght I have guns you have guns,show me in anypost I ever made that said I wanted to take your guns away!!
What I am for is 100% backgroud checks holding retail dealers to all laws ,and ammo capacity limits on all a guns. There is no reason anybody needs a 30 round clip.
If you don't like that tuff poop because within two years that will be the law. Just another one you feel you are above following.
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise. Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008
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posted
I am not saying that this a cia plot. Talking about how crazy a person can get. And I post this to show everybody I don't want to be put in that box
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise. Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008
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posted
There is no reason anybody needs a 30 round clip.
ray, that's a bullcrap argument and youknow it.
first off, large cap clips jam more often than short clips. it's fact.
there is design issue witht he larger springs and how they work, inorder to make a large clip that works propely you need a spring actiuon that changes it's strength as you decompress it. the qaultiy contorl on mass production of those is just not very good.. 10-15 round clips the most reliable.. after that? they tend to cause more problems than they solve.
most importantly? against unamred civilians? dropping a clip and changing it is no problem. neitehr is haveing two guns liek a glock and a sig...
the only peopl this law will serve is other people armed with 30 rounders, and that is exaclty what we do not want.
i am still waiting to hear more about how the M4 (lookalike) was used in this crime. soemthing is terribly wrong here.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by raybond: I am not saying that this a cia plot. Talking about how crazy a person can get. And I post this to show everybody I don't want to be put in that box
neitehr am i,
buit there is most definitley an agenda to take guns away form law abidng citizens based on a random decison about what you or i "need".
as to the CIA? it's not likely them if there is some plot.
there is banking connection between all three of the shooters i mentioned. the soldier?
he was in investing and got itno big finacial trouble. he was staying on the battle feild becuase whne you are on the comabt pay? you cannot be held to coint for fincial obligations, they can't foreclose on you- look it up he was hiding form his previous life as an investment counsleor who had screwed soeomenone out of their moeny.
the colorado kid? his dady worked as an anlyst at FICO- that's wher the intel community and the fincial community meet-
GE Capital is were the last shooters dad worked ... it's a tenuous thread, but i don't belive in coincidences.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: Sorry Raybond, wasn't asking you.
I was asking Glassman and Buckstalker.
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if you do not look at the FACTS and try to assmeble them in some way thatmakes sense? you not being realistic. too many times, people are written off as conspricay theorists,..
the Scintific Method is to look around and see connections, assmeble a credible theroy and they try like hell to Disprove it (NOT!Prove it)-
i gave the facts that i see, without any embellishment. i am not really wanting to find evidence to prove that there is a plott cuz my survival rate would be pretty friggin low if there were people doing htis huh?
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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buit there is most definitley an agenda to take guns away form law abidng citizens based on a random decison about what you or i "need".
as to the CIA? it's not likely them if there is some plot.
there is banking connection between all three of the shooters i mentioned. the soldier?
he was in investing and got itno big finacial trouble. he was staying on the battle feild becuase whne you are on the comabt pay? you cannot be held to coint for fincial obligations, they can't foreclose on you- look it up he was hiding form his previous life as an investment counsleor who had screwed soeomenone out of their moeny.
the colorado kid? his dady worked as an anlyst at FICO- that's wher the intel community and the fincial community meet-
GE Capital is were the last shooters dad worked ... it's a tenuous thread, but i don't belive in coincidence -------------------------------------------------
An agenda to take guns away, i can see that.
Don't have to do much, just wait for an event like this and play it whatever way one wants.
You could even not look into something you got a tip on and say it didn't seem that important, not saying that's the case here.
If your looking for a reason to push a certain agenda, an event like this is certainly the time to do so, with all the media coverage.
I am not sure where you are going on the second theory? Why kill a lot of kids?
posted
why kill kids? becuase that get the news off the problems it's been focused on iwish.
this is why i am trying very hard to get raybonds head straight as quick as possible.
i have no idea if he's a real player or just cut's and pastes what they send him every day.
the GOP took over after the last gun bill and did stupid things witht ehir power. greedy things. they even got everyone upset about 9-11 to invade a country that we shouldn't have...
this is how the powers that be manipulate the masses...
as to the gun issue? the Democrats are going to cut their own throats on this issue. the gun woning people are millions strong, and we will not be moved. we have the Constituion on our side.
remebr when Oabmacare became "evil" and I took Obma's side? i supported it because it is the right thing to do, the crazy GOP's went after it beven tho they are theones that designed it and first got it passed in Massachussetes.
they lied to people to get them to hate it and Obama..
now even tho we have even worse problems facing our country like the economy and th edebt? and we are baout two weeks from going over th edclif, (we actually went over along time ago IMO) every one on th eliberal side is now ready to waste their "poltical capital" on this instead of taxinghte rich.
get it now?
the rich? they benefit form this new diversion...
it's all sick i know, but so is what has happened..
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
How far down the rabbit hole is our society? You want to be optimistic, but we seem to be really entering a new era of dramatic commons.
The smart are getting smarter, the dumb are getting dumber. Same thing with money. More poor with a strong rich.
We have some significant events ongoing and brewing in the middle east that will probably unfold in 2013. Dont forget the terrible drought the heartland is in and has been. Crops took a beating from last summer. I bet there is some money to be made in grain futures.
Have you seen the new Chinese attack helicopter? It looks pretty sweet actually.
Wont be long before we are outmatched in the skies and in the seas let alone land.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
i don't consider Obama to be any kind of evil. but yes the opportunity to do what he would already like to do will be hard to resit, and this does givea veil of credibility to "do something" even if is unCosntitutional- shall not be infringed doesnot give much freedom to restrict gun rights... in any way is not even needed to be said, it is there.
i hope that he spends his energy to try to imporve mental health care, and equal rights for all people.. rahter than spend his poltical capital on new gun laws...
and yes, cashcowmoo, i am FOR raising taxes on everyone a lilttel bit to pay for the war we have engaged in, that is the right thing to do... i don't want to do it, but we have to...
now? all of that is being forgotten just whne we need to be working th ehardest on it..
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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How far down the rabbit hole is our society? You want to be optimistic, but we seem to be really entering a new era of dramatic commons.
The smart are getting smarter, the dumb are getting dumber. Same thing with money. More poor with a strong rich.
We have some significant events ongoing and brewing in the middle east that will probably unfold in 2013. Dont forget the terrible drought the heartland is in and has been. Crops took a beating from last summer. I bet there is some money to be made in grain futures.
Have you seen the new Chinese attack helicopter? It looks pretty sweet actually.
Wont be long before we are outmatched in the skies and in the seas let alone land.
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CashCowMoo, you need to find some things in life you really like to do and do them as often as you can.
Enjoy what you have and don't worry so much about what bad things might happen tomorrow.
Lifes to short and your to young to have this much time to worry.
I am not telling you what to do, just hoping you enjoy things more.
You spent many years following what others told you to do, now do what you really want to do, especially if you have your health and can do those things.
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: How far down the rabbit hole is our society? You want to be optimistic, but we seem to be really entering a new era of dramatic commons.
The smart are getting smarter, the dumb are getting dumber. Same thing with money. More poor with a strong rich.
We have some significant events ongoing and brewing in the middle east that will probably unfold in 2013. Dont forget the terrible drought the heartland is in and has been. Crops took a beating from last summer. I bet there is some money to be made in grain futures.
Have you seen the new Chinese attack helicopter? It looks pretty sweet actually.
Wont be long before we are outmatched in the skies and in the seas let alone land.
cash, get soem persepctive in your head.
how far down the rabbit hole do you allow yourself to be?
do you know how we took the Cherokee lands? the Cherokee were not Savages. They did not live like animals, they had community and councils- they owned and worked the land. Some white politicans appointed a fake Cheif and signed a treaty with him to take all that from them.All legal like- this was the East Coast. Society is better off today than it has ever been- we are getting better, we aren't perfect, and being human is problematic.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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We all spend a lot of time talking here on allstocks.
Sometimes it can be heated as you well know, but all and all most don't mean much by it... hopefully
I know your a Combat Vet and have paid your dues many times over, by serving several tours in Iraq, i can't imagine what's its like doing more than one or any in Iraq.
I always like that word tour, sounds like a vacation.
Combat Vets have a lot more things going on in their minds than just the everyday person, especially the earlier years after discharge and for some reason the very late years.
I think you know if you have any thing going on unusual, or know anyone that is having any PTSD symptoms, they can and should get some outpatient help at the VA.
I know we all talk and say things here that don't always mean much, but we ourselves know if they really mean anything or are real.
We all spend a lot of time talking here on allstocks.
Sometimes it can be heated as you well know, but all and all most don't mean much by it... hopefully
I know your a Combat Vet and have paid your dues many times over, by serving several tours in Iraq, i can't imagine what's its like doing more than one or any in Iraq.
I always like that word tour, sounds like a vacation.
Combat Vets have a lot more things going on in their minds than just the everyday person, especially the earlier years after discharge and for some reason the very late years.
I think you know if you have any thing going on unusual, or know anyone that is having any PTSD symptoms, they can and should get some outpatient help at the VA.
I know we all talk and say things here that don't always mean much, but we ourselves know if they really mean anything or are real.
Take care of yourself CashCowMoo, you deserve it.
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Where do you get the impression that CCM served "several combat tours"?
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious. Posts: 3311 | From: St. Louis | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by raybond: Member Rated: posted 17-12-2012 01:06 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What I am for is 100% backgroud checks holding retail dealers to all laws ,and ammo capacity limits on all a guns. There is no reason anybody needs a 30 round clip.
If you don't like that tuff poop because within two years that will be the law. Just another one you feel you are above following.
Again...show me which states one can you buy a rifle or pistol without a background check...provide links please
I have a semi-auto 30-06 with six 5 round clips that I can shoot damn near as fast as I can shoot a 30 round clip out of an AR-15...
Also the 30-06 is a "hunting" rifle. It is just as accurate as the AR-15 and has a much larger caliber bullet than the .223 or 5.56 which is used in the AR...and...the 30-06 caliber bullet is much deadlier than the .223
Your argument is emotionally based and has nothing to do with the logistics of the weapons in question...
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It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
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We all spend a lot of time talking here on allstocks.
Sometimes it can be heated as you well know, but all and all most don't mean much by it... hopefully
I know your a Combat Vet and have paid your dues many times over, by serving several tours in Iraq, i can't imagine what's its like doing more than one or any in Iraq.
I always like that word tour, sounds like a vacation.
Combat Vets have a lot more things going on in their minds than just the everyday person, especially the earlier years after discharge and for some reason the very late years.
I think you know if you have any thing going on unusual, or know anyone that is having any PTSD symptoms, they can and should get some outpatient help at the VA.
I know we all talk and say things here that don't always mean much, but we ourselves know if they really mean anything or are real.
Take care of yourself CashCowMoo, you deserve it.
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Where do you get the impression that CCM served "several combat tours"?
Pagan, he was here in '03 and shared info with some of us that was incontrovertible. he didn't get itno political posting till he was discharged. I personally know quite a few who were stoplossed and if i recall correctly he was, and he didn;t complain about it like some.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by raybond: Member Rated: posted 17-12-2012 01:06 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What I am for is 100% backgroud checks holding retail dealers to all laws ,and ammo capacity limits on all a guns. There is no reason anybody needs a 30 round clip.
If you don't like that tuff poop because within two years that will be the law. Just another one you feel you are above following.
Again...show me which states one can you buy a rifle or pistol without a background check...provide links please
I have a semi-auto 30-06 with six 5 round clips that I can shoot damn near as fast as I can shoot a 30 round clip out of an AR-15...
Also the 30-06 is a "hunting" rifle. It is just as accurate as the AR-15 and has a much larger caliber bullet than the .223 or 5.56 which is used in the AR...and...the 30-06 caliber bullet is much deadlier than the .223
Your argument is emotionally based and has nothing to do with the logistics of the weapons in question...
alomost oall of the anti-gun people are ignorant of the facts buck. they want to be. and when things get bad? they'd be looking to those of us that have taken the time to become proficient.
this can't happen here because we are armed:
for those who say it never would? i say that's right because some of us will make sure.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: Originally Posted by Glassman:
Why kill a lot of kids?
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Simple...to incite emotion in people
You can see how effective it has been right here on this thread...
Before this incident took place, raybond was pro gun...
now he wants new gun laws that will not be effective in preventing this from happening again, and will only serve the "bad guys" that don't abide by the laws anyway...
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It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
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quote:Originally posted by raybond: Member Rated: posted 17-12-2012 01:06 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What I am for is 100% backgroud checks holding retail dealers to all laws ,and ammo capacity limits on all a guns. There is no reason anybody needs a 30 round clip.
If you don't like that tuff poop because within two years that will be the law. Just another one you feel you are above following.
Again...show me which states one can you buy a rifle or pistol without a background check...provide links please
I have a semi-auto 30-06 with six 5 round clips that I can shoot damn near as fast as I can shoot a 30 round clip out of an AR-15...
Also the 30-06 is a "hunting" rifle. It is just as accurate as the AR-15 and has a much larger caliber bullet than the .223 or 5.56 which is used in the AR...and...the 30-06 caliber bullet is much deadlier than the .223
Your argument is emotionally based and has nothing to do with the logistics of the weapons in question...
alomost oall of the anti-gun people are ignorant of the facts buck. they want to be. and when things get bad? they'd be looking to those of us that have taken the time to become proficient.
this can't happen here because we are armed:
for those who say it never would? i say that's right because some of us will make sure.
That's a fact Glass...the ONLY reason that this country hasn't been invaded is because of people like us...
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It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
there's alos people in this country that can't be trusted - Dick cheney and rummie? they were in Iraq helping sadam before they were invading it. they their ilk can't be trusted... forget party, people who want power and are willing to sell illegal arms to our enemies are jsut as likely to do something here. they have no moral compass.
one of my childrens friends volunteered to go to Ira, went and came back with bullet in his shoulder. he SWORE to me to my face that he had been in bunker in Iraq with US made VX, he helped take it, how could i question his honesty..
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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Where do you get the impression that CCM served "several combat tours"? _________________________________________________
I could be wrong Pagan, but i think he was on a second tour when posting on allstocks.
Not sure it matters if he did one or two or none, my point is to Veterans and non Veterans.
This time of year can be bad for many, and other times, if depression or any other thoughts takes over our lives, there is nothing wrong with seeking help!
quote:Originally posted by buckstalker: My statement above should have included foreign AND domestic
that's the harder one to try to convince people of..
we have enjoyed a long run of "apparent" civility in this country.... the prohibition and the violence associated with that has even been glamorised to alrge extent...
prohibition in the South was very profitable for local lawenforcemnt agencuies, that's whyt he Feds had to grow so big to put the sherrifs and governors out of the business.. and it was bloody.
the drugs from the Nam and Afghanistan were NOT just few bad apples eiterh, there has been top level people working in that... the draggin on of both wars should alrm people other wars get dealt with much quicker, but throw in some black market money that is in the millions and untraceable?
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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Pagan, he was here in '03 and shared info with some of us that was incontrovertible. he didn't get itno political posting till he was discharged. I personally know quite a few who were stoplossed and if i recall correctly he was, and he didn;t complain about it like some.
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Not sure what you mean by stoplossed or complaining?
posted
stoplossed means he was not allowed to be discharged when his time was up, and he was forced to stay on even tho his EAOS had come and gone... i beleive he mentioned it once and didn't complain like many did...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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