By Annie-Rose Strasser on Dec 14, 2012 at 11:31 am
Credit: AP Scores of people — including children — were killed on Friday morning when at least one gunman opened fire in an Sandy Hook elementary school in Newtown, CT.
Children were reportedly told to run out of the building with their eyes closed after the incident occurred Friday. Reports from the Hartford Courant suggest that the shooting took place inside of a kindergarten classroom.
A total of 28 are dead, including 20 children, according to Connecticut state police Lt. Paul Vance. One gunman was also killed. Only one person made it out injured, but alive. Every person in the kindergarten classroom of Lanza’s mother was reportedly killed in the attack.
The gunman has been identified as 24 year-old Ryan Lanza. His mother, one of those killed in the shooting, worked as a teacher at the school. A second potential gunman, identified by some news outlets as Lanza’s brother, was found in the woods near the school is custody, according to NBC. The AP also reports that Lanza’s girlfriend and friend are missing in New Jersey.
According to Hartford Courant reporter Dave Altimari, the gunman was “heavily armed” with “multiple weapons when he entered the school.” He was also reported to be wearing camouflage and a bullet proof vest. At least four guns were used, including, according to the BBC and AP a .223-caliber assault rifle:
The Sandy Hook school serves children in grades kindergarten through 4th. The entire school system in the area was on lock down earlier in the day, but parents have come forward to bring the children who survived the shooting home. ABC News points out this chilling statistic: There have been an estimated 31 school shootings since the shooting at Columbine in 1999.
Posted by raybond on :
ABC News notes that there have been an estimated 31 school shootings since the shooting at Columbine in 1999.
Posted by raybond on :
President Obama: This afternoon, I spoke with Governor Malloy and FBI Director Mueller. I offered Governor Malloy my condolences on behalf of the nation, and made it clear he will have every single resource that he needs to investigate this heinous crime, care for the victims, counsel their families.
We’ve endured too many of these tragedies in the past few years. And each time I learn the news I react not as a President, but as anybody else would — as a parent. And that was especially true today. I know there’s not a parent in America who doesn’t feel the same overwhelming grief that I do.
The majority of those who died today were children — beautiful little kids between the ages of 5 and 10 years old. They had their entire lives ahead of them — birthdays, graduations, weddings, kids of their own. Among the fallen were also teachers — men and women who devoted their lives to helping our children fulfill their dreams.
So our hearts are broken today — for the parents and grandparents, sisters and brothers of these little children, and for the families of the adults who were lost. Our hearts are broken for the parents of the survivors as well, for as blessed as they are to have their children home tonight, they know that their children’s innocence has been torn away from them too early, and there are no words that will ease their pain.
As a country, we have been through this too many times. Whether it’s an elementary school in Newtown, or a shopping mall in Oregon, or a temple in Wisconsin, or a movie theater in Aurora, or a street corner in Chicago — these neighborhoods are our neighborhoods, and these children are our children. And we’re going to have to come together and take meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like this, regardless of the politics.
This evening, Michelle and I will do what I know every parent in America will do, which is hug our children a little tighter and we’ll tell them that we love them, and we’ll remind each other how deeply we love one another. But there are families in Connecticut who cannot do that tonight. And they need all of us right now. In the hard days to come, that community needs us to be at our best as Americans. And I will do everything in my power as President to help.
Because while nothing can fill the space of a lost child or loved one, all of us can extend a hand to those in need — to remind them that we are there for them, that we are praying for them, that the love they felt for those they lost endures not just in their memories but also in ours.
May God bless the memory of the victims and, in the words of Scripture, heal the brokenhearted
Posted by a surfer on :
God bless the families of those who were lost.
Unfortunately this will be twisted into another gun control issue instead of the truth.
We'll just keep feeding them happy meals with their adult ADD medication and hope that we don't get 1 bad reaction out of 100 million.
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by a surfer: God bless the families of those who were lost.
Unfortunately this will be twisted into another gun control issue instead of the truth.
We'll just keep feeding them happy meals with their adult ADD medication and hope that we don't get 1 bad reaction out of 100 million.
oh yeah, there's several journalists that have their flaming swords already swinging overhead...
Posted by glassman on :
this shooter was alos privileged (like the orange hair shooter)
Sandeep Kapur, who lives two doors down from the Lanza family in Newtown, said he did not know them and was unaware of any disturbances at the Lanza house in the three years that he and his family have been in the neighborhood.
He described the area as a subdivision of well-tended, 15-year-old homes on lots of an acre or more, where many people work at companies like General Electric, Pepsi and IBM. Some are doctors, and his next-door neighbor is a bank CEO, said Kapur, a project manager at an information technology firm.
dad was tax director at GE, Mom was some sort of aide at the school...
the kid has been described as possibly a genius and nerdy... into goth...
i dunno what makes soemeone want to commit suicide and take other with them, it must be severe hopelessness...
and the newsfolks will grind all this into dust while they try convince everybody that all you have to do is make a new gun law and we'll be safe...
people this sick can always find a way to hurt us - we need to try to find ways to help people that are sick like this before they become so hopeless IMO...
Posted by raybond on :
On Friday morning, 27 people were reportedly shot and killed at Sandy Hook elementary school in Newtown, CT. According to sources, 18 of these casualties were children. This is the second mass shooting in the US this week, after a gunman opened fire in an Oregon shopping mall on Tuesday, killing 2. ABC News reports that there have been 31 school shootings in the US since Columbine in 1999, when 13 people were killed.
The rate of people killed by guns in the US is 19.5 times higher than similar high-income countries in the world. In the last 30 years since 1982, America has mourned at least 61 mass murders. Below is a timeline of mass shootings in the US since the Columbine High massacre:
December 11, 2012. On Tuesday, 22-year-old Jacob Tyler Roberts killed 2 people and himself with a stolen rifle in Clackamas Town Center, Oregon. His motive is unknown.
September 27, 2012. Five were shot to death by 36-year-old Andrew Engeldinger at Accent Signage Systems in Minneapolis, MN. Three others were wounded. Engeldinger went on a rampage after losing his job, ultimately killing himself.
August 5, 2012. Six Sikh temple members were killed when 40-year-old US Army veteran Wade Michael Page opened fire in a gurdwara in Oak Creek, Wisconsin. Four others were injured, and Page killed himself.
July 20, 2012. During the midnight premiere of The Dark Knight Rises in Aurora, CO, 24-year-old James Holmes killed 12 people and wounded 58. Holmes was arrested outside the theater.
May 29, 2012. Ian Stawicki opened fire on Cafe Racer Espresso in Seattle, WA, killing 5 and himself after a citywide manhunt.
April 6, 2012. Jake England, 19, and Alvin Watts, 32, shot 5 black men in Tulsa, Oklahoma, in racially motivated shooting spree. Three died.
April 2, 2012. A former student, 43-year-old One L. Goh killed 7 people at Oikos University, a Korean Christian college in Oakland, CA. The shooting was the sixth-deadliest school massacre in the US and the deadliest attack on a school since the 2007 Virginia Tech massacre.
October 14, 2011. Eight people died in a shooting at Salon Meritage hair salon in Seal Beach, CA. The gunman, 41-year-old Scott Evans Dekraai, killed six women and two men dead, while just one woman survived. It was Orange County’s deadliest mass killing.
September 6, 2011. Eduardo Sencion, 32, entered an IHOP restaurant in Carson City, NV and shot 12 people. Five died, including three National Guard members.
January 8, 2011. Former Rep. Gabby Giffords (D-AZ) was shot in the head when 22-year-old Jared Loughner opened fire on an event she was holding at a Safeway market in Tucson, AZ. Six people died, including Arizona District Court Chief Judge John Roll, one of Giffords’ staffers, and a 9-year-old girl. 19 total were shot. Loughner has been sentenced to seven life terms plus 140 years, without parole.
August 3, 2010. Omar S. Thornton, 34, gunned down Hartford Beer Distributor in Manchester, CT after getting caught stealing beer. Nine were killed, including Thornton, and two were injured.
November 5, 2009. Forty-three people were shot by Army psychiatrist Nidal Malik Hasan at the Fort Hood army base in Texas. Hasan reportedly yelled “Allahu Akbar!” before opening fire, killing 13 and wounding 29 others.
April 3, 2009. Jiverly Wong, 41, opened fire at an immigration center in Binghamton, New York before committing suicide. He killed 13 people and wounded 4.
March 29, 2009. Eight people died in a shooting at the Pinelake Health and Rehab nursing home in Carthage, NC. The gunman, 45-year-old Robert Stewart, was targeting his estranged wife who worked at the home and survived. Stewart was sentenced to life in prison.
February 14, 2008. Steven Kazmierczak, 27, opened fire in a lecture hall at Northern Illinois University, killing 6 and wounding 21. The gunman shot and killed himself before police arrived. It was the fifth-deadliest university shooting in US history.
February 7, 2008. Six people died and two were injured in a shooting spree at the City Hall in Kirkwood, Missouri. The gunman, Charles Lee Thornton, opened fire during a public meeting after being denied construction contracts he believed he deserved. Thornton was killed by police.
December 5, 2007. A 19-year-old boy, Robert Hawkins, shot up a department store in the Westroads Mall in Omaha, NE. Hawkins killed 9 people and wounded 4 before killing himself. The semi-automatic rifle he used was stolen from his stepfather’s house.
April 16, 2007. Virginia Tech became the site of the deadliest school shooting in US history when a student, Seung-Hui Choi, gunned down 56 people. Thirty-two people died in the massacre.
February 12, 2007. In Salt Lake City’s Trolley Square Mall, 5 people were shot to death and 4 others were wounded by 18-year-old gunman Sulejman Talović. One of the victims was a 16-year-old boy.
October 2, 2006. An Amish schoolhouse in Lancaster, PA was gunned down by 32-year-old Charles Carl Roberts, Roberts separated the boys from the girls, binding and shooting the girls. 5 young girls died, while 6 were injured. Roberts committed suicide afterward.
March 25, 2006. Seven died and 2 were injured by 28-year-old Kyle Aaron Huff in a shooting spree through Capitol Hill in Seattle, WA. The massacre was the worst killing in Seattle since 1983.
March 21, 2005. Teenager Jeffrey Weise killed his grandfather and his grandfather’s girlfriend before opening fire on Red Lake Senior High School, killing 9 people on campus and injuring 5. Weise killed himself.
March 12, 2005. A Living Church of God meeting was gunned down by 44-year-old church member Terry Michael Ratzmann at a Sheraton hotel in Brookfield, WI. Ratzmann was thought to have had religious motivations, and killed himself after executing the pastor, the pastor’s 16-year-old son, and 7 others. Four were wounded.
July 8, 2003. Doug Williams, a Lockheed Martin employee, shot up his plant in Meridian, MI in a racially-motivated rampage. He shot 14 people, most of them African American, and killed 7.
September 15, 1999. Larry Gene Ashbrook opened fire on a Christian rock concert and teen prayer rally at Wedgewood Baptist Church in Fort Worth, TX. He killed 7 people and wounded 7 others, almost all teenagers. Ashbrook committed suicide.
July 29, 1999. Mark Orrin Barton, 44, murdered his wife and two children with a hammer before shooting up two Atlanta day trading firms. Barton, a day trader, was believed to be motivated by huge monetary losses. He killed 12 including his family and injured 13 before killing himself.
April 20, 1999. In the deadliest high school shooting in US history, teenagers Eric Harris and Dylan Kiebold shot up Columbine High School in Littleton, CO. They killed 13 people and wounded 21 others. They killed themselves after the massacre.
Posted by glassman on :
take away the guns? and it'll be cars, or gasoline, or pesticides,or pipe bombs...
something IS wrong with people- a large part of the problem is how the media goes into 24-7 mode on this stuff... any publicty they can get?
notice that i refuse to name the shooters...
that is part of the "appeal"(?) to the shooters, to go down in the books - we should give them ridiculous names and not their real names. like the orange hair shooter etc... manson? everybody knows that name...
i notice you didn't find much on the shooters demise... they tend to kill themsleves right? isn't that illegal too?
i can relate to people who commit violence in self defense, i cannot even begin to grasp why somebody would kill themsleves and take children with them... even a parent... or especially parents...
sucide is usually a passive aggressive attack on the peoplearound the perp... suicide and murder? they seem like opposites.....seems like utter hopelessness mixed with ultimate hatred...
Posted by a surfer on :
I can't stand TV news now or even TV period cept for a sporting event or documentary. The news glamorizes this sh!t like it's a hollywood production.
I wonder if any of the above were CIA derived shootings...
Posted by raybond on :
A petition started yesterday afternoon at the White House’s official petition site has over 87,000 signatures as of this writing calling upon President Obama to “produce legislation that limits access to guns.” According to the petition, “[p]owerful lobbying groups allow the ownership of guns to reach beyond the Constitution’s intended purpose of the right to bear arms. Therefore, Congress must act on what is stated law, and face the reality that access to firearms reaches beyond what the Second Amendment intends to achieve.”
Although President Obama reacted emotionally to yesterday’s mass shooting, his record on gun regulation gives little comfort to the many Americans demanding real action to prevent similar tragedies in the future. Indeed, gun owners’ rights have increased under this president; Obama’s most significant guns legislation is a law he signed allowing loaded guns in national parks. You can add your name to the petition calling up President Obama to support gun regulation here.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
I really don't care much who says what, all the news coverage etc. just seems to glamorize these deaths.
You don't see days and days of media coverage for the person that does a good deed for many people,only when there is harm or death.
A lot of very young kids are either dead or scarred for life.
People make a lot of money off of the pain of others.
You can ban or restrict whatever you want, but if we want any type of free society these indivuals will always find a way to beat whatever ban there is, or another way to kill.
Not sure what the fix is, but less publicity would help a lot.
Doesn't make much sense to take the innocence away from so many kids at one time.
I just think the only way these indivuals get the idea for such a hellish event, is through what they have seen or heard from other similiar events.
But then again the news media is going to cover what makes them money and many people will watch days of this, if they weren't, the media would not spend the time and money covering it...catch 22.
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Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: I really don't care much who says what, all the news coverage etc. just seems to glamorize these deaths.
You don't see days and days of media coverage for the person that does a good deed for many people,only when there is harm or death.
A lot of very young kids are either dead or scarred for life.
People make a lot of money off of the pain of others.
You can ban or restrict whatever you want, but if we want any type of free society these indivuals will always find a way to beat whatever ban there is, or another way to kill.
Not sure what the fix is, but less publicity would help a lot.
Doesn't make much sense to take the innocence away from so many kids at one time.
I just think the only way these indivuals get the idea for such a hellish event, is through what they have seen or heard from other similiar events.
But then again the news media is going to cover what makes them money and many people will watch days of this, if they weren't, the media would not spend the time and money covering it...catch 22.
-
very well said iwish. there seems to be people without souls... in the mideast they strap bombs to themselves and even their kids- all that equipment is illegal too...
Posted by glassman on :
Posted by raybond on :
Really cool supress the 1st amendment to save the 2nd amendment. Where did that come from nra headquaters.
Face it you guys are going to face some flak on this one two shooting sprees back to back. 9000 gun related deaths a year in America. American society is sick. Rome is burning and the nra crowd is fanning the flames along with all the others.
At least the nra head quarters has the brains to say no comment at this time,and lets there soldiers do there mouth work.
Posted by glassman on :
seriously - follow this with your emotuions? the Dems will lose everything again. watch...
you were just claiming Obama won't go after guns, now your emotions are running your brain.
just like all these peckerhead journalists- complaining because we don;t allow our emotions to take over? sheesh...
are you really changing your position this fast? think with your head. you take away guns form law abiding people and those people you were prtoceting society form will take over, just like in Mexico.... the drug and alcohol bans have worked so well....
Posted by raybond on :
I said Obama has not gone after gun rights but I feel events are going to change that. There is a ground swell of public protest brewing and going to explode.
These were children with anywhere of 3 to 7 bullets in each body. Thank God the 1st responders were quick that is the only reason the body count was 26and no more.
The best thing you folks can do is stop blaming and justifing your postion by giving examples of other wrongs in society.
The public has a right to know the story and I am a bleiever in a non restricted press.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
What is the story?
To me the story is a lot of kids got killed and scarred for life and the families have to figure a way to cope with this.
And yes one shooter died.
Now we need to change everything,who is locked in and who is locked out?
-
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by raybond: I said Obama has not gone after gun rights but I feel events are going to change that. There is a ground swell of public protest brewing and going to explode.
These were children with anywhere of 3 to 7 bullets in each body. Thank God the 1st responders were quick that is the only reason the body count was 26and no more.
The best thing you folks can do is stop blaming and justifing your postion by giving examples of other wrongs in society.
The public has a right to know the story and I am a bleiever in a non restricted press.
ray, i'm not showing other wrongs in society.
the Constitution is plainly written. The right of the people to keep and bare arms shall not be infringed. using technical grammar? that part of the statement is the operator. shall not be infringed, we've already cocneded too much infringemnt, the writers of that were revolutionaries, they meant for US to have the same thing th emilitary did.. of course hand grenades adn nukes would be ridicluous, but the Constituion says waht it says, and i t said it to prevent Tyranny, not for "sport"
they have already violated the constituion with allot of these gun laws-
sick people are no tsick because they got hold of gun. sick people are doing this stuff because WE are not taking of the sick as they need... the media DOES feed that sickness. nobody is censuring or suggesting censure, the suggestion is to stop glorifying this crap. How much moaney did michale moore make offof his columbine movie? how many now do this to try to get that kind of attention? we can't really know can we, but it doesn't tke much common sense to know that everybody does know Charles mansons MAME if not exactly what he did.
as for killing kids? the guy could have driven thru a bus stop, the list is endless. don;t be mindless minion...
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." they who give up their freedom get Dictators. Hell most of the world is run by them, even China who calls itself communist is a dictatorship by Party (rather than family) we are Free because we pay the price. the price ain't cheap and Freedom ain't free
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
What i do see coming is more airport like security at schools.
We already have more security at some gang area schools in CA.
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Posted by glassman on :
I am cutting and pasting this whole thig cuz THIS is threal problem. it isn't a new thing either, but we try to pretned we can ignore this stuff today- give 'em a pill and get 'em to workor school.. some people are just not right and never will be, we used to take better care of them.... until Reagan in fact...( and yeah i voted for him but didn;t agree with what he did)
I Am Adam Lanza’s Mother Liza Long
Three days before 20-year-old Adam Lanza killed his mother, then opened fire on a classroom full of Connecticut kindergartners, my 13-year-old son Michael (name changed) missed his bus because he was wearing the wrong color pants.
"I can wear these pants," he said, his tone increasingly belligerent, the black-hole pupils of his eyes swallowing the blue irises.
"They are navy blue," I told him. "Your school's dress code says black or khaki pants only."
"They told me I could wear these," he insisted. "You're a stupid *****. I can wear whatever pants I want to. This is America. I have rights!"
"You can't wear whatever pants you want to," I said, my tone affable, reasonable. "And you definitely cannot call me a stupid *****. You're grounded from electronics for the rest of the day. Now get in the car, and I will take you to school."
I live with a son who is mentally ill. I love my son. But he terrifies me.
A few weeks ago, Michael pulled a knife and threatened to kill me and then himself after I asked him to return his overdue library books. His 7- and 9-year-old siblings knew the safety plan—they ran to the car and locked the doors before I even asked them to. I managed to get the knife from Michael, then methodically collected all the sharp objects in the house into a single Tupperware container that now travels with me. Through it all, he continued to scream insults at me and threaten to kill or hurt me.
That conflict ended with three burly police officers and a paramedic wrestling my son onto a gurney for an expensive ambulance ride to the local emergency room. The mental hospital didn't have any beds that day, and Michael calmed down nicely in the ER, so they sent us home with a prescription for Zyprexa and a follow-up visit with a local pediatric psychiatrist.
We still don't know what's wrong with Michael. Autism spectrum, ADHD, Oppositional Defiant or Intermittent Explosive Disorder have all been tossed around at various meetings with probation officers and social workers and counselors and teachers and school administrators. He's been on a slew of antipsychotic and mood-altering pharmaceuticals, a Russian novel of behavioral plans. Nothing seems to work.
At the start of seventh grade, Michael was accepted to an accelerated program for highly gifted math and science students. His IQ is off the charts. When he's in a good mood, he will gladly bend your ear on subjects ranging from Greek mythology to the differences between Einsteinian and Newtonian physics to Doctor Who. He's in a good mood most of the time. But when he's not, watch out. And it's impossible to predict what will set him off.
Several weeks into his new junior high school, Michael began exhibiting increasingly odd and threatening behaviors at school. We decided to transfer him to the district's most restrictive behavioral program, a contained school environment where children who can't function in normal classrooms can access their right to free public babysitting from 7:30 to 1:50 Monday through Friday until they turn 18.
The morning of the pants incident, Michael continued to argue with me on the drive. He would occasionally apologize and seem remorseful. Right before we turned into his school parking lot, he said, "Look, Mom, I'm really sorry. Can I have video games back today?"
"No way," I told him. "You cannot act the way you acted this morning and think you can get your electronic privileges back that quickly."
His face turned cold, and his eyes were full of calculated rage. "Then I'm going to kill myself," he said. "I'm going to jump out of this car right now and kill myself."
That was it. After the knife incident, I told him that if he ever said those words again, I would take him straight to the mental hospital, no ifs, ands, or buts. I did not respond, except to pull the car into the opposite lane, turning left instead of right.
"Where are you taking me?" he said, suddenly worried. "Where are we going?"
"You know where we are going," I replied.
"No! You can't do that to me! You're sending me to hell! You're sending me straight to hell!"
I pulled up in front of the hospital, frantically waving for one of the clinicians who happened to be standing outside. "Call the police," I said. "Hurry."
Michael was in a full-blown fit by then, screaming and hitting. I hugged him close so he couldn't escape from the car. He bit me several times and repeatedly jabbed his elbows into my rib cage. I'm still stronger than he is, but I won't be for much longer.
The police came quickly and carried my son screaming and kicking into the bowels of the hospital. I started to shake, and tears filled my eyes as I filled out the paperwork—"Were there any difficulties with… at what age did your child… were there any problems with.. has your child ever experienced.. does your child have…"
At least we have health insurance now. I recently accepted a position with a local college, giving up my freelance career because when you have a kid like this, you need benefits. You'll do anything for benefits. No individual insurance plan will cover this kind of thing.
For days, my son insisted that I was lying—that I made the whole thing up so that I could get rid of him. The first day, when I called to check up on him, he said, "I hate you. And I'm going to get my revenge as soon as I get out of here."
By day three, he was my calm, sweet boy again, all apologies and promises to get better. I've heard those promises for years. I don't believe them anymore.
On the intake form, under the question, "What are your expectations for treatment?" I wrote, "I need help."
And I do. This problem is too big for me to handle on my own. Sometimes there are no good options. So you just pray for grace and trust that in hindsight, it will all make sense.
I am sharing this story because I am Adam Lanza's mother. I am Dylan Klebold's and Eric Harris's mother. I am Jason Holmes's mother. I am Jared Loughner's mother. I am Seung-Hui Cho's mother. And these boys—and their mothers—need help. In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it's easy to talk about guns. But it's time to talk about mental illness.
According to Mother Jones, since 1982, 61 mass murders involving firearms have occurred throughout the country. Of these, 43 of the killers were white males, and only one was a woman. Mother Jones focused on whether the killers obtained their guns legally (most did). But this highly visible sign of mental illness should lead us to consider how many people in the U.S. live in fear, like I do.
When I asked my son's social worker about my options, he said that the only thing I could do was to get Michael charged with a crime. "If he's back in the system, they'll create a paper trail," he said. "That's the only way you're ever going to get anything done. No one will pay attention to you unless you've got charges."
I don't believe my son belongs in jail. The chaotic environment exacerbates Michael's sensitivity to sensory stimuli and doesn't deal with the underlying pathology. But it seems like the United States is using prison as the solution of choice for mentally ill people. According to Human Rights Watch, the number of mentally ill inmates in U.S. prisons quadrupled from 2000 to 2006, and it continues to rise—in fact, the rate of inmate mental illness is five times greater (56 percent) than in the non-incarcerated population.
With state-run treatment centers and hospitals shuttered, prison is now the last resort for the mentally ill—Rikers Island, the LA County Jail and Cook County Jail in Illinois housed the nation's largest treatment centers in 2011.
No one wants to send a 13-year-old genius who loves Harry Potter and his snuggle animal collection to jail. But our society, with its stigma on mental illness and its broken healthcare system, does not provide us with other options. Then another tortured soul shoots up a fast food restaurant. A mall. A kindergarten classroom. And we wring our hands and say, "Something must be done."
I agree that something must be done. It's time for a meaningful, nation-wide conversation about mental health. That's the only way our nation can ever truly heal.
God help me. God help Michael. God help us all.
liza long is an author, musician, and erstwhile classicist. she is also a single mother of four bright, loved children, one of whom has special needs.
Republished with permission from the Blue Review, a non-profit publication affiliated with Boise State University that publishes a mix of scholarly essays and journalism. The original post can be found here. http://gawker.com/5968818/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Increasingly obese children, pilled up kids, couch potatoes, genetically modified foods, fast food multiple times a week, glorified violence from hollywood, more single parent homes and on and on.
If you are an atheist I would wonder where you get your hope from, who do you turn to for healing, there is a more powerful way to help and serve others than foaming at the mouth for new gun laws.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Originally Posted By CashCowMoo:
"Increasingly obese children, pilled up kids, couch potatoes, genetically modified foods, fast food multiple times a week, glorified violence from hollywood, more single parent homes and on and on.
If you are an atheist I would wonder where you get your hope from, who do you turn to for healing, there is a more powerful way to help and serve others than foaming at the mouth for new gun laws." _________________________________________________
I coach kids at different sports, have done so off and on for 40+ years.
I believe all eat fast food that i am around, some are overweight, some are smarter than others, some faster, some slower,lots play video games, all have probably seen violence on tv or videos, hopefully not real violence.
I can go on and on and somehow would describe most generations in the last 60 years, changing a few of the facts.
But all and all the kids would give anyone hope that really listens to them, why do they need to be healed? its the parents that sometimes worry me.
Let them be kids as long as they can, and yes some will get in trouble, hopefully not bad trouble, that is part of growing and learning in many cases.
CashCowMoo you sound like what i try and avoid by working with kids.
Not get old in the mind to soon, kids will help you be younger in the mind if your willing to listen and not dictate to them what we believe.
We can all learn alot from the kids.
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Posted by glassman on :
watch this video.
this guy is asking some of the questions i was asking myself on Friday, i listened and followed several channels. I always assume that the 'fog of war" explains alot of confusion, but the confusion on this was under control in th sense that the rpeorters were very slow in providing info, the death count was only 2- or 3 for several hours... then it suddenly jumped up late itn eh day.
one other thing that was also bothering me is about the guns, Remember they reported all day that he used a Sig and a Glock. those are professioanl carry peices. cops guns, they are no particularly accurate, but they are very reliable, and they are lightwieght to save you from a bad back after 20 yrs of carrying. The M4 (or AR-15) shows up later in the day- supposedly in the car- but there's shell casings reported to be in the school? that does not compute.They seem to be saying he took the M4 back to his car after firing it in the school and then went back into the school to kill himself?
it makes more sense that somebody else (with him) killed him and got away. or even that he is a plant. i know - tin foil hat time right? yet people will beg to have their rights stripped from them over this, and that IS motive.
seems to me something friggin else happened friday besides what they are saying now, and today they announced thtat anybody sharing rumors about he case on t he internet would be investigated? hmmm.....
BTW? his facebook political views are claimed to be communist anarchist? huh? that also is an oxymoron.
Posted by glassman on :
OK, i have verified that the colorado shooters dad worked as an analyst for FICO. now this guys dadis GE Capital?
i'm sorry, but this is not something that can be ignored.
testimony on the LIBOR scandal from them would make it even worse, but even without testimony, this cuts too close toteh bone.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Originally Posted By Glassman:
"seems to me something friggin else happened friday besides what they are saying now, and today they announced thtat anybody sharing rumors about he case on t he internet would be investigated? hmmm....." _________________________________________________
That does seem weird, aren't rumors what they use when they report and don't know for sure.
That's right that's speculation.
Why are they worried about someone else, if there just rumors,unless there hurting someone?
Sounds like they might be worried about someone inside leaking something, but maybe i am just reading it wrong also, who knows,maybe someone?
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Posted by glassman on :
i have to assume that they just don;'t have the timeline right yet, but the rifle shells inside and the rifle in the car is a real problem...
i assumed at the outset that the anti-gun folks want a an "assualt rifle" involved for politcal reasons...
people on TV are always saying how we don't need AK-47's in the peoples hands, what they fail to recognise is that AK-47 can't be owned by indivduals unless they are pre-1986 made and you have a Federal permit for it... yet they lie and claim they are everywhere all the time..
For it to be legal, it must have been made and registered with the BATFE prior to May 1986. These are transferrable NFA Class III guns.
A brand newfactory Colt M16A2 (made before 86) is going to run you about $18,000+ while a used AR-15 conversion will run you about $9,500-$13,000+. this lady did not own a real assault rifle, yet they scream it out loud over and over again...
Posted by buckstalker on :
This has a real bad stench to it...
Posted by a surfer on :
quote:Originally posted by buckstalker: This has a real bad stench to it...
What...you think someone is behind this?? CIA??
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: Originally Posted By CashCowMoo:
"Increasingly obese children, pilled up kids, couch potatoes, genetically modified foods, fast food multiple times a week, glorified violence from hollywood, more single parent homes and on and on.
If you are an atheist I would wonder where you get your hope from, who do you turn to for healing, there is a more powerful way to help and serve others than foaming at the mouth for new gun laws." _________________________________________________
I coach kids at different sports, have done so off and on for 40+ years.
I believe all eat fast food that i am around, some are overweight, some are smarter than others, some faster, some slower,lots play video games, all have probably seen violence on tv or videos, hopefully not real violence.
I can go on and on and somehow would describe most generations in the last 60 years, changing a few of the facts.
But all and all the kids would give anyone hope that really listens to them, why do they need to be healed? its the parents that sometimes worry me.
Let them be kids as long as they can, and yes some will get in trouble, hopefully not bad trouble, that is part of growing and learning in many cases.
CashCowMoo you sound like what i try and avoid by working with kids.
Not get old in the mind to soon, kids will help you be younger in the mind if your willing to listen and not dictate to them what we believe.
We can all learn alot from the kids.
-
I totally agree, but look at how we have decayed as a society. What we have lowered our standards too in teaching kids. More and more single parent homes with all sorts of issues. Failing public schools...on and on.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Originally Posted By CashCowMoo:
"totally agree, but look at how we have decayed as a society. What we have lowered our standards too in teaching kids. More and more single parent homes with all sorts of issues. Failing public schools...on and on." _________________________________________________
It's a different Era, have we decayed? not sure how and from when, depends on how you would decribe decayed and from when to when.
Things have definately changed, for better in some areas and for the worse in others.
Schooling and schools differ from area to area, overall we have better ways of teaching kids then we use to.
Computors allow easy access for teaching and for other things that are also taught, but not necessarily good from a parents stand point.
Single parent families are not good, but neither is people keeping marriages together that have went bad, either one is hard on the kids and families.
All we can do is try to improve situations whether it be through our representives or at home, any way we can.
There is no easy solution to most things, especially when it comes to dealing with people.
Believe me the sixties had there home problems also, but a lot was kept pretty quiet within the house.
I am still learning of many bad situations my friends had, that were never discussed until there later years, some i knew back then.
Wasn't as rosey as many think, just because families were together.
The thing to all of this when we have events like this, we better watch out what we ask for and think about the long term consequences.
Find a simpler solution that maybe doesn't erode more of our rights, it might not be perfect, but nothing else will be either.
=
-
Posted by raybond on :
If any of you And cash this means you to had a kid in that school you would be singing a different song.
The right to bear arms is fine for hunting or self defence. These military weapons have one reason only that is to kill people.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
So you are saying ban guns?
I would probably be saying lots of things, but mostly morning right now.
Since the shooter is dead, one of my biggest thoughts would be gone.
Right now its mostly reaction, not thought.
After days, i think i would be thinking more protection for kids than anything else.
For the ones that died, why so young?
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Posted by raybond on :
.
Posted by raybond on :
3No I am saying if you are going to ban something ban assault rifles and larg capcity automatic pistols with over 10 lrounds.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Sounds fine, but does not stop this type of situation.
Hand gun does the same thing.
Rooms with 20-30 kids- 8-12 years old.
Shooter has a hand gun, disgusting makes me sick.
Just a waste of time to think that banning either is a solution, more protection and screening at the schools, like airports is the best i can think of at this time.
Now we talk more money and are people ready to pay, we would think so, but somehow many think it can only happen somewhere else.
-
-
Posted by raybond on :
Do you know that 40% of all gun sales are done in this country with no background check.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
No i did not know, but i really stay away from guns and don't really have any interest.
Maybe i should, but they scare me.
The big question is how many are sold back alley?
Maybe your percentage covers that.
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Posted by buckstalker on :
But it's ok for you to have them...right ray?
If my kid was in that school it wouldn't change my mindset in any way , shape or form, because I am 100% certain that the weapon/s used in this crime had absolutely nothing to do with WHY the crime was committed....the weapon was the tool NOT the motive
You of all people here should want law abiding citizens to have and bear arms...and your stance on this issue solidifies to me that you are no better in your ability to think for yourself than cowpie is....
You are the democratic version of CCM
Posted by buckstalker on :
quote:Originally posted by raybond: Do you know that 40% of all gun sales are done in this country with no background check.
40% of what type of guns ray?
how many of those are shotguns and muzzleloaders?
Show me the states where you can purchase a rifle or pistol without a background check
I can buy almost any weapon without a background check because I have a concealed carry license....are you including people like me in that 40%?
Provide links to back up your claims please...
Posted by buckstalker on :
quote:Originally posted by a surfer:
quote:Originally posted by buckstalker: This has a real bad stench to it...
What...you think someone is behind this?? CIA??
I don't know enough to point fingers surf but this chit doesn't add up to me....
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if this was orchestrated, or at the very least manipulated, to strengthen the anti-gun agenda...
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD:
Single parent families are not good, but neither is people keeping marriages together that have went bad, either one is hard on the kids and families.
All we can do is try to improve situations whether it be through our representives or at home, any way we can.
There is no easy solution to most things, especially when it comes to dealing with people.
Believe me the sixties had there home problems also, but a lot was kept pretty quiet within the house.
I am still learning of many bad situations my friends had, that were never discussed until there later years, some i knew back then.
Wasn't as rosey as many think, just because families were together.
The thing to all of this when we have events like this, we better watch out what we ask for and think about the long term consequences.
Find a simpler solution that maybe doesn't erode more of our rights, it might not be perfect, but nothing else will be either.
=
- [/QB]
i cut off part of your quote cuz i wanted to repsond to this part only Iwish, i hope you don't mind and 'pologise if you do:
nothing has really decayed IMO- changed, yes, and people who don't belong together are toxic. my personal experince in this is not very good. i have a successful marriage, and my wife and i have been thru everything except losing a chiold (thank you God) the rest of it we deal with. the people that i have seen who failed in theri marriages which is almost all of them, are due to people being uncompromising and unwilling to recognise and acknowledge their OWN weakness. It has always been one person who decides they are not at fault and the other is.... i screw up? i admit it to my spouse becuase that's the only way i can really improve myself anyway. it serves no purpose to deny your mistakes .. there is alot of selfishness in people, and with that goes hypocrisy.
society is no worse off today than it was when we owned slaves as business venture, or when we took the land from the Cherokee and Souix. We acted like the native Americans were savages becuase they were defending their way of life, that was dihonesty with ourselves.. no, things are not really differnt at all, women have more rights today and that is not decay, they should bne able to vote and get real jobs and careers...
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by buckstalker:
quote:Originally posted by a surfer:
quote:Originally posted by buckstalker: This has a real bad stench to it...
What...you think someone is behind this?? CIA??
I don't know enough to point fingers surf but this chit doesn't add up to me....
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if this was orchestrated, or at the very least manipulated, to strengthen the anti-gun agenda...
i read braodly in real sientific journals.
it is likely that there are peopel who have developed strong hypnotic/pschedellic drugs that can make people who are already weak-willed become puppet-like.
those people would be funded by the CIA and or any of a half-dozen other "invisble" oprations corporate or govt the line is blurred there.
pulling htis off twice would be very high risk, but it would be a requirement to shut other people up. once is an anomoly, but twice would make any whsitleblower stop. This would be as intimidating to whistlebnlowers as it gets, the message? We vcan not just kill you, we can destroy your life your future and the future of your famly in such awy that you will want to kill yourself. I'm speaking of beingth parent of killer like this. I don't know how i could deal with that. The "cosnpricay" problem here is that it would take a good bit of work to "program the shooters. There i not going to be a=one drug that makes them get the urge to do this IMO. It would take conditioning and other stuff. It is possible that the gunmen are nothe real perps, but are bieng dosed with drugs that literally destroy their memories and will, and then are put at the secen after soemeon else does the dirty deeds. Thta would be how it is being done if it is... It is very risky, but it is possible as long as you have people who can follow directions explicitly.
If i were designing ops like this? it would take only a half-dozen people with few specialised skils. the rela hard part is finding cold-blooded killers who are smart enough to think on their own in case of a problem but hard-wired to follow directions to teh absolute end. Even to knowing they are dead by their own hand if they get into a bind.
Posted by glassman on :
here's the evidence; we have a soldier who left base at night and shot civies. March 11,2012
colorado shooter- July 20 21012.
connecticut shooter: Dec. 14th...
the timeline for conducting an expiremnt looks about right. a few months in between each to set the thing up..
i watched the colorado shooter in court on his first appearnace. he looked pithed to me, as in what we do to frogs before weopen them up to watch their heart beat. the first thing that occurred tome was thorazine. that's an anti-psychotic that hospitals gave to folks who were problematic and uncooperative, it's effectsd tend to become permanet with a few high doses.. it's old-school- they have way better chit now.
the soldier? he swears no recollection and he came back to base.. the colorado kid? orange hair to make the ID's? but he gave himslef up?
none of this stuff makes sense, we shouldn't be able to understand it, but that also provides cover for 'experiments" in human behavoior contorl...
there's no way to mkae a case here, and heck if i did? you'd never hear form me again anyway.... it stinks by it's very nature without a conspricay theory.
the battefeild arena would have been the highest level of control and plausible deniabilty if it went sideways. it was first.... it's all circumstantial, but people have been executed on circumstaintial evidence plenty of tiems
Posted by raybond on :
Member Rated: posted 17-12-2012 01:06 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- But it's ok for you to have them...right ray?
If my kid was in that school it wouldn't change my mindset in any way , shape or form, because I am 100% certain that the weapon/s used in this crime had absolutely nothing to do with WHY the crime was committed....the weapon was the tool NOT the motive
You of all people here should want law abiding citizens to have and bear arms...and your stance on this issue solidifies to me that you are no better in your ability to think for yourself than cowpie is....
You are the democratic version of CCM --------------------------------------------
first of all lets get something striaght I have guns you have guns,show me in anypost I ever made that said I wanted to take your guns away!!
What I am for is 100% backgroud checks holding retail dealers to all laws ,and ammo capacity limits on all a guns. There is no reason anybody needs a 30 round clip.
If you don't like that tuff poop because within two years that will be the law. Just another one you feel you are above following.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Are you guys saying that an outside source set up this shooting, like the cia, to try and influence gun control?
-
Posted by raybond on :
I am not saying that this a cia plot. Talking about how crazy a person can get. And I post this to show everybody I don't want to be put in that box
Posted by glassman on :
There is no reason anybody needs a 30 round clip.
ray, that's a bullcrap argument and youknow it.
first off, large cap clips jam more often than short clips. it's fact.
there is design issue witht he larger springs and how they work, inorder to make a large clip that works propely you need a spring actiuon that changes it's strength as you decompress it. the qaultiy contorl on mass production of those is just not very good.. 10-15 round clips the most reliable.. after that? they tend to cause more problems than they solve.
most importantly? against unamred civilians? dropping a clip and changing it is no problem. neitehr is haveing two guns liek a glock and a sig...
the only peopl this law will serve is other people armed with 30 rounders, and that is exaclty what we do not want.
i am still waiting to hear more about how the M4 (lookalike) was used in this crime. soemthing is terribly wrong here.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Sorry Raybond, wasn't asking you.
I was asking Glassman and Buckstalker.
-
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by raybond: I am not saying that this a cia plot. Talking about how crazy a person can get. And I post this to show everybody I don't want to be put in that box
neitehr am i,
buit there is most definitley an agenda to take guns away form law abidng citizens based on a random decison about what you or i "need".
as to the CIA? it's not likely them if there is some plot.
there is banking connection between all three of the shooters i mentioned. the soldier?
he was in investing and got itno big finacial trouble. he was staying on the battle feild becuase whne you are on the comabt pay? you cannot be held to coint for fincial obligations, they can't foreclose on you- look it up he was hiding form his previous life as an investment counsleor who had screwed soeomenone out of their moeny.
the colorado kid? his dady worked as an anlyst at FICO- that's wher the intel community and the fincial community meet-
GE Capital is were the last shooters dad worked ... it's a tenuous thread, but i don't belive in coincidences.
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: Sorry Raybond, wasn't asking you.
I was asking Glassman and Buckstalker.
-
if you do not look at the FACTS and try to assmeble them in some way thatmakes sense? you not being realistic. too many times, people are written off as conspricay theorists,..
the Scintific Method is to look around and see connections, assmeble a credible theroy and they try like hell to Disprove it (NOT!Prove it)-
i gave the facts that i see, without any embellishment. i am not really wanting to find evidence to prove that there is a plott cuz my survival rate would be pretty friggin low if there were people doing htis huh?
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Originally Posted by Glassman:
neitehr am i,
buit there is most definitley an agenda to take guns away form law abidng citizens based on a random decison about what you or i "need".
as to the CIA? it's not likely them if there is some plot.
there is banking connection between all three of the shooters i mentioned. the soldier?
he was in investing and got itno big finacial trouble. he was staying on the battle feild becuase whne you are on the comabt pay? you cannot be held to coint for fincial obligations, they can't foreclose on you- look it up he was hiding form his previous life as an investment counsleor who had screwed soeomenone out of their moeny.
the colorado kid? his dady worked as an anlyst at FICO- that's wher the intel community and the fincial community meet-
GE Capital is were the last shooters dad worked ... it's a tenuous thread, but i don't belive in coincidence -------------------------------------------------
An agenda to take guns away, i can see that.
Don't have to do much, just wait for an event like this and play it whatever way one wants.
You could even not look into something you got a tip on and say it didn't seem that important, not saying that's the case here.
If your looking for a reason to push a certain agenda, an event like this is certainly the time to do so, with all the media coverage.
I am not sure where you are going on the second theory? Why kill a lot of kids?
-
Posted by glassman on :
why kill kids? becuase that get the news off the problems it's been focused on iwish.
this is why i am trying very hard to get raybonds head straight as quick as possible.
i have no idea if he's a real player or just cut's and pastes what they send him every day.
the GOP took over after the last gun bill and did stupid things witht ehir power. greedy things. they even got everyone upset about 9-11 to invade a country that we shouldn't have...
this is how the powers that be manipulate the masses...
as to the gun issue? the Democrats are going to cut their own throats on this issue. the gun woning people are millions strong, and we will not be moved. we have the Constituion on our side.
remebr when Oabmacare became "evil" and I took Obma's side? i supported it because it is the right thing to do, the crazy GOP's went after it beven tho they are theones that designed it and first got it passed in Massachussetes.
they lied to people to get them to hate it and Obama..
now even tho we have even worse problems facing our country like the economy and th edebt? and we are baout two weeks from going over th edclif, (we actually went over along time ago IMO) every one on th eliberal side is now ready to waste their "poltical capital" on this instead of taxinghte rich.
get it now?
the rich? they benefit form this new diversion...
it's all sick i know, but so is what has happened..
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
How far down the rabbit hole is our society? You want to be optimistic, but we seem to be really entering a new era of dramatic commons.
The smart are getting smarter, the dumb are getting dumber. Same thing with money. More poor with a strong rich.
We have some significant events ongoing and brewing in the middle east that will probably unfold in 2013. Dont forget the terrible drought the heartland is in and has been. Crops took a beating from last summer. I bet there is some money to be made in grain futures.
Have you seen the new Chinese attack helicopter? It looks pretty sweet actually.
Wont be long before we are outmatched in the skies and in the seas let alone land.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Got it Glassman.
And "if" he reaLLy wanted gun control all along but didn't want to rock the boat, this event would be an easy way to stay kind of neutral.
Even though i am sure he would rather not have this happened than become neutral.
He morns like others for these kids and their families.
-
Posted by glassman on :
i don't consider Obama to be any kind of evil. but yes the opportunity to do what he would already like to do will be hard to resit, and this does givea veil of credibility to "do something" even if is unCosntitutional- shall not be infringed doesnot give much freedom to restrict gun rights... in any way is not even needed to be said, it is there.
i hope that he spends his energy to try to imporve mental health care, and equal rights for all people.. rahter than spend his poltical capital on new gun laws...
and yes, cashcowmoo, i am FOR raising taxes on everyone a lilttel bit to pay for the war we have engaged in, that is the right thing to do... i don't want to do it, but we have to...
now? all of that is being forgotten just whne we need to be working th ehardest on it..
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Originally Posted By CashCowMoo:
How far down the rabbit hole is our society? You want to be optimistic, but we seem to be really entering a new era of dramatic commons.
The smart are getting smarter, the dumb are getting dumber. Same thing with money. More poor with a strong rich.
We have some significant events ongoing and brewing in the middle east that will probably unfold in 2013. Dont forget the terrible drought the heartland is in and has been. Crops took a beating from last summer. I bet there is some money to be made in grain futures.
Have you seen the new Chinese attack helicopter? It looks pretty sweet actually.
Wont be long before we are outmatched in the skies and in the seas let alone land.
_________________________________________________
CashCowMoo, you need to find some things in life you really like to do and do them as often as you can.
Enjoy what you have and don't worry so much about what bad things might happen tomorrow.
Lifes to short and your to young to have this much time to worry.
I am not telling you what to do, just hoping you enjoy things more.
You spent many years following what others told you to do, now do what you really want to do, especially if you have your health and can do those things.
-
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: How far down the rabbit hole is our society? You want to be optimistic, but we seem to be really entering a new era of dramatic commons.
The smart are getting smarter, the dumb are getting dumber. Same thing with money. More poor with a strong rich.
We have some significant events ongoing and brewing in the middle east that will probably unfold in 2013. Dont forget the terrible drought the heartland is in and has been. Crops took a beating from last summer. I bet there is some money to be made in grain futures.
Have you seen the new Chinese attack helicopter? It looks pretty sweet actually.
Wont be long before we are outmatched in the skies and in the seas let alone land.
cash, get soem persepctive in your head.
how far down the rabbit hole do you allow yourself to be?
do you know how we took the Cherokee lands? the Cherokee were not Savages. They did not live like animals, they had community and councils- they owned and worked the land. Some white politicans appointed a fake Cheif and signed a treaty with him to take all that from them.All legal like- this was the East Coast. Society is better off today than it has ever been- we are getting better, we aren't perfect, and being human is problematic.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
CashCowMoo,
We all spend a lot of time talking here on allstocks.
Sometimes it can be heated as you well know, but all and all most don't mean much by it... hopefully
I know your a Combat Vet and have paid your dues many times over, by serving several tours in Iraq, i can't imagine what's its like doing more than one or any in Iraq.
I always like that word tour, sounds like a vacation.
Combat Vets have a lot more things going on in their minds than just the everyday person, especially the earlier years after discharge and for some reason the very late years.
I think you know if you have any thing going on unusual, or know anyone that is having any PTSD symptoms, they can and should get some outpatient help at the VA.
I know we all talk and say things here that don't always mean much, but we ourselves know if they really mean anything or are real.
Take care of yourself CashCowMoo, you deserve it.
-
Posted by Pagan on :
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: CashCowMoo,
We all spend a lot of time talking here on allstocks.
Sometimes it can be heated as you well know, but all and all most don't mean much by it... hopefully
I know your a Combat Vet and have paid your dues many times over, by serving several tours in Iraq, i can't imagine what's its like doing more than one or any in Iraq.
I always like that word tour, sounds like a vacation.
Combat Vets have a lot more things going on in their minds than just the everyday person, especially the earlier years after discharge and for some reason the very late years.
I think you know if you have any thing going on unusual, or know anyone that is having any PTSD symptoms, they can and should get some outpatient help at the VA.
I know we all talk and say things here that don't always mean much, but we ourselves know if they really mean anything or are real.
Take care of yourself CashCowMoo, you deserve it.
-
Where do you get the impression that CCM served "several combat tours"?
Posted by buckstalker on :
quote:Originally posted by raybond: Member Rated: posted 17-12-2012 01:06 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What I am for is 100% backgroud checks holding retail dealers to all laws ,and ammo capacity limits on all a guns. There is no reason anybody needs a 30 round clip.
If you don't like that tuff poop because within two years that will be the law. Just another one you feel you are above following.
Again...show me which states one can you buy a rifle or pistol without a background check...provide links please
I have a semi-auto 30-06 with six 5 round clips that I can shoot damn near as fast as I can shoot a 30 round clip out of an AR-15...
Also the 30-06 is a "hunting" rifle. It is just as accurate as the AR-15 and has a much larger caliber bullet than the .223 or 5.56 which is used in the AR...and...the 30-06 caliber bullet is much deadlier than the .223
Your argument is emotionally based and has nothing to do with the logistics of the weapons in question...
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by Pagan:
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: CashCowMoo,
We all spend a lot of time talking here on allstocks.
Sometimes it can be heated as you well know, but all and all most don't mean much by it... hopefully
I know your a Combat Vet and have paid your dues many times over, by serving several tours in Iraq, i can't imagine what's its like doing more than one or any in Iraq.
I always like that word tour, sounds like a vacation.
Combat Vets have a lot more things going on in their minds than just the everyday person, especially the earlier years after discharge and for some reason the very late years.
I think you know if you have any thing going on unusual, or know anyone that is having any PTSD symptoms, they can and should get some outpatient help at the VA.
I know we all talk and say things here that don't always mean much, but we ourselves know if they really mean anything or are real.
Take care of yourself CashCowMoo, you deserve it.
-
Where do you get the impression that CCM served "several combat tours"?
Pagan, he was here in '03 and shared info with some of us that was incontrovertible. he didn't get itno political posting till he was discharged. I personally know quite a few who were stoplossed and if i recall correctly he was, and he didn;t complain about it like some.
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by buckstalker:
quote:Originally posted by raybond: Member Rated: posted 17-12-2012 01:06 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What I am for is 100% backgroud checks holding retail dealers to all laws ,and ammo capacity limits on all a guns. There is no reason anybody needs a 30 round clip.
If you don't like that tuff poop because within two years that will be the law. Just another one you feel you are above following.
Again...show me which states one can you buy a rifle or pistol without a background check...provide links please
I have a semi-auto 30-06 with six 5 round clips that I can shoot damn near as fast as I can shoot a 30 round clip out of an AR-15...
Also the 30-06 is a "hunting" rifle. It is just as accurate as the AR-15 and has a much larger caliber bullet than the .223 or 5.56 which is used in the AR...and...the 30-06 caliber bullet is much deadlier than the .223
Your argument is emotionally based and has nothing to do with the logistics of the weapons in question...
alomost oall of the anti-gun people are ignorant of the facts buck. they want to be. and when things get bad? they'd be looking to those of us that have taken the time to become proficient.
this can't happen here because we are armed:
for those who say it never would? i say that's right because some of us will make sure.
Posted by buckstalker on :
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: Originally Posted by Glassman:
Why kill a lot of kids?
-
Simple...to incite emotion in people
You can see how effective it has been right here on this thread...
Before this incident took place, raybond was pro gun...
now he wants new gun laws that will not be effective in preventing this from happening again, and will only serve the "bad guys" that don't abide by the laws anyway...
Posted by buckstalker on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman:
quote:Originally posted by buckstalker:
quote:Originally posted by raybond: Member Rated: posted 17-12-2012 01:06 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What I am for is 100% backgroud checks holding retail dealers to all laws ,and ammo capacity limits on all a guns. There is no reason anybody needs a 30 round clip.
If you don't like that tuff poop because within two years that will be the law. Just another one you feel you are above following.
Again...show me which states one can you buy a rifle or pistol without a background check...provide links please
I have a semi-auto 30-06 with six 5 round clips that I can shoot damn near as fast as I can shoot a 30 round clip out of an AR-15...
Also the 30-06 is a "hunting" rifle. It is just as accurate as the AR-15 and has a much larger caliber bullet than the .223 or 5.56 which is used in the AR...and...the 30-06 caliber bullet is much deadlier than the .223
Your argument is emotionally based and has nothing to do with the logistics of the weapons in question...
alomost oall of the anti-gun people are ignorant of the facts buck. they want to be. and when things get bad? they'd be looking to those of us that have taken the time to become proficient.
this can't happen here because we are armed:
for those who say it never would? i say that's right because some of us will make sure.
That's a fact Glass...the ONLY reason that this country hasn't been invaded is because of people like us...
Posted by glassman on :
there's alos people in this country that can't be trusted - Dick cheney and rummie? they were in Iraq helping sadam before they were invading it. they their ilk can't be trusted... forget party, people who want power and are willing to sell illegal arms to our enemies are jsut as likely to do something here. they have no moral compass.
one of my childrens friends volunteered to go to Ira, went and came back with bullet in his shoulder. he SWORE to me to my face that he had been in bunker in Iraq with US made VX, he helped take it, how could i question his honesty..
Posted by buckstalker on :
My statement above should have included foreign AND domestic
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Originally Posted By Pagan:
Where do you get the impression that CCM served "several combat tours"? _________________________________________________
I could be wrong Pagan, but i think he was on a second tour when posting on allstocks.
Not sure it matters if he did one or two or none, my point is to Veterans and non Veterans.
This time of year can be bad for many, and other times, if depression or any other thoughts takes over our lives, there is nothing wrong with seeking help!
-
-
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by buckstalker: My statement above should have included foreign AND domestic
that's the harder one to try to convince people of..
we have enjoyed a long run of "apparent" civility in this country.... the prohibition and the violence associated with that has even been glamorised to alrge extent...
prohibition in the South was very profitable for local lawenforcemnt agencuies, that's whyt he Feds had to grow so big to put the sherrifs and governors out of the business.. and it was bloody.
the drugs from the Nam and Afghanistan were NOT just few bad apples eiterh, there has been top level people working in that... the draggin on of both wars should alrm people other wars get dealt with much quicker, but throw in some black market money that is in the millions and untraceable?
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Originally Posted By Glassman:
Pagan, he was here in '03 and shared info with some of us that was incontrovertible. he didn't get itno political posting till he was discharged. I personally know quite a few who were stoplossed and if i recall correctly he was, and he didn;t complain about it like some.
_________________________________________________
Not sure what you mean by stoplossed or complaining?
-
Posted by glassman on :
stoplossed means he was not allowed to be discharged when his time was up, and he was forced to stay on even tho his EAOS had come and gone... i beleive he mentioned it once and didn't complain like many did...
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Originally Posted By Glassman:
stoplossed means he was not allowed to be discharged when his time was up, and he was forced to stay on even tho his EAOS had come and gone... i beleive he mentioned it once and didn't complain like many did...
--------------------
Nothing wrong with complaining.
We use to do it all the time in Vietnam, they use to say if we weren't complaining something must really be wrong. We never disappointed.
And if they had sent Vietnam Veterans home and then decided to send them back, probably 70%+ would be AWOL, maybe we were wimps compared to Iraq, Afghan Vets?
And i am not trying to take anything away from Pagan and his service and not complaining.
Each person has his or her way of coping with different situations.
The problem society has in general, is that there is a stigma on mental health!
-
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Originally Posted By Buckstalker:
Simple...to incite emotion in people
You can see how effective it has been right here on this thread...
Before this incident took place, raybond was pro gun...
now he wants new gun laws that will not be effective in preventing this from happening again, and will only serve the "bad guys" that don't abide by the laws anyway...
-------------------------------------------------
I really do not think this was the reason this guy killed these kids, but this is my opinion.
You are right people do get real emotionable over the kids, rightfully so.
I feel this happened for other reasons and some people are using it to push their cause.
It happens all the time.
-
Posted by Pagan on :
First off Glass..I was speaking to Iwish...not you...CCM's dad. And you say he provided you with incontrevertible evidence in 2003. Well he didn't register on AS til Apr of 2004.
You are FOS on most things. Whenever anyone mentions anything, you claim to be an expert on it. That is utter BS.
And some of us don't have or feel the need to provide info to about zip as far as our real mil service. If you believe that moron CCM...that's your problem.
You need to take off the JiffyPop hat for a little while with your insane conspiracy theories. It's becoming oldhat and ridiculous. Maybe you should concentrate on your wife's patents or something. ya know, the one's everyone is stealing? Get over yourself. Your just an anonymous schlub on an anonymous MB with a holier than thou attitude.
Yes, you are quite the googler, I'll give you that. But get over yourself. And again, take off the JiffyPop hat for a while, your brain needs some air after some of your recent posts. Btw...just my opinion.
Have fun with your responses!
Posted by glassman on :
LOL wow pagan at least you checked the dates, i didn't... i missed a couple months... lessee, april 2004 would be 4 to 5 months off out of 90 some? that's a margin of error that is not to shabby for human memory over almost ten years...
as to the rest of your post? you sound like you have a problem you should see somebody about it... i'm trying to remebr ever being rude to you... can't figger it.. not my problem, yours.and i won't make it my problem either no matter how much you try.
in order to google? you have to know what you are looking for-- think about that for awhile.. it doesn't just pop on your screen magically or with a single word, i am a damn good googler in fact, cuz i know how to work the algorythms. i know how to use unusual keywoirdds that automatically reifne my searches to what i am looking for...
as to conspiracies? there are always conspiracies and you prove my point about the way people just like to put others down for thinking...
i ddn;t put out a conspiracy theory today i put the facts about three shooters out, and leave the rest you try to comprndez... soembody asked, i gave an answer that has soem though behind it... i ain't barricading myself in and waiting for the black helicopters tho...
Posted by Pagan on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: LOL wow pagan at least you checked the dates, i didn't... i missed a couple months... lessee, april 2004 would be 4 to 5 months off out of 90 some? that's a margin of error that is not to shabby for human memory over almost ten years...
as to the rest of your post? you sound like you have a problem you should see somebody about it... i'm trying to remebr ever being rude to you... can't figger it.. not my problem, yours.and i won't make it my problem either no matter how much you try.
in order to google? you have to know what you are looking for-- think about that for awhile.. it doesn't just pop on your screen magically or with a single word, i am a damn good googler in fact, cuz i know how to work the algorythms. i know how to use unusual keywoirdds that automatically reifne my searches to what i am looking for...
as to conspiracies? there are always conspiracies and you prove my point about the way people just like to put others down for thinking...
i ddn;t put out a conspiracy theory today i put the facts about three shooters out, and leave the rest you try to comprndez... soembody asked, i gave an answer that has soem though behind it... i ain't barricading myself in and waiting for the black helicopters tho...
Well your dates were way off. And him supposedly vetting himself to some anonymous poster on a MB is even funnier.
I couldn't possibly care less about. And obviously you have to put in search terms knucklehead. Maybe you should invent and patent a websearch where you don't have to input any criteria. Oh wait..thats right...somebody would steal it.
And you only offend me, and any other person with your attitude that you know everything. And you don't...not even close. Searching the web is not intelligence...it's just looking up info to portray intelligence on your part.
Maybe you need a new exhaust fan in your glass studio. Because apparently you are breathin in too many fumes.
Posted by glassman on :
the fact that i offend you is a compliment. i know many people just like you they have to be the smartest int he room or they get ugly..
i know my limitations and work with them. i do find my limitations by trying to imporve myself. googling is learning, because i care enough to learn stuff everyday.
i challenge people to think. i accept new ideas and evaluate them...
you just condemn. have fun with thta.
Posted by glassman on :
so pagan waht's really eatin' you here? you know me well enough to know that i am here anonymously and not trying to sell people a damn thing. i quit pushing stocks when i relaised that nothing good come out o fit.
you don't like cahs cow moo, but you have to realise that when the Daimond mining company was being pumped here (CMKX)? i was on the skeptics side and we all shared emails then- so there was alotta sidechatter.. i knew cashcow from that,and dardadog too- remebr him? maybe not, i think he backed off about the time you came here...
he was in the spec forces down in south america and got screwed byt hat too...
publicly cashcow was still working on an oil rig (right cash?) but photos were shared and they were conclusive.... cash was in combat and i saw the pix.
Posted by Pagan on :
LOL!! You are so far off the mark with your "expert" evaluation Mr Freud. I'm just calling BS on you. Should I peruse back the the bast couple of months to show your comments on every thread where your an expert and C/P them for you? I have no need to be the smartest in the room, that is you glass. Name one other poster on this board that goes to the extremes that you do to try to prove how smart you think you are? Oh that's right...NO ONE else does that. just you.
Well...I'm sure you'll peck the keys a bit more tonight...but I actually have a life and will check your misfiring missives tomorrow and repudiate them. Have a busy night glassy!
Until tomorrow then!
Posted by Pagan on :
Too be honest...CCM is nothing to me. Just some misguided fool on an MB. I was here when dardadog was here, as well as keithsan, the idian chick, and when you guys had that fiasco about that one stock LOL!. But that is beside the point. Have a good night.
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by Pagan: LOL!! You are so far off the mark with your "expert" evaluation Mr Freud. I'm just calling BS on you. Should I peruse back the the bast couple of months to show your comments on every thread where your an expert and C/P them for you? I have no need to be the smartest in the room, that is you glass. Name one other poster on this board that goes to the extremes that you do to try to prove how smart you think you are? Oh that's right...NO ONE else does that. just you.
Well...I'm sure you'll peck the keys a bit more tonight...but I actually have a life and will check your misfiring missives tomorrow and repudiate them. Have a busy night glassy!
Until tomorrow then!
so you beleive that the desire to learn expressin gthat desire openly and then sharing what you learn is bad or messed up? LOL... you won't offend me this way pagan...
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by Pagan: Too be honest...CCM is nothing to me. Just some misguided fool on an MB. I was here when dardadog was here, as well as keithsan, the idian chick, and when you guys had that fiasco about that one stock LOL!. But that is beside the point. Have a good night.
actaully htere were about ten fiascos... oh wait, i better check the books it may be 9 or 11... i don't want to be wrong. good night to you too friend...
Posted by Pagan on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman:
quote:Originally posted by Pagan: LOL!! You are so far off the mark with your "expert" evaluation Mr Freud. I'm just calling BS on you. Should I peruse back the the bast couple of months to show your comments on every thread where your an expert and C/P them for you? I have no need to be the smartest in the room, that is you glass. Name one other poster on this board that goes to the extremes that you do to try to prove how smart you think you are? Oh that's right...NO ONE else does that. just you.
Well...I'm sure you'll peck the keys a bit more tonight...but I actually have a life and will check your misfiring missives tomorrow and repudiate them. Have a busy night glassy!
Until tomorrow then!
so you beleive that the desire to learn expressin gthat desire openly and then sharing what you learn is bad or messed up? LOL... you won't offend me this way pagan...
Again your little twist won't work glass. You are not claiming to be learning when you post your authoritative posts on subjects. You feel the need to act like you are the authority. And you aren't. Not even close.
Posted by Pagan on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman:
quote:Originally posted by Pagan: Too be honest...CCM is nothing to me. Just some misguided fool on an MB. I was here when dardadog was here, as well as keithsan, the idian chick, and when you guys had that fiasco about that one stock LOL!. But that is beside the point. Have a good night.
actaully htere were about ten fiascos... oh wait, i better check the books it may be 9 or 11... i don't want to be wrong. good night to you too friend...
I'm sure your life is full of many more fiasco's than that. But I was referring strictly to stocks in that post Posted by glassman on :
btw? you should not lie about your problem with CCM... that's not right. you do have a problem with him, and Iwish expressing concern for him brough tit out of you... think about that for awhile... i have never disrespectd you and i 'm not about to start now... it's not what i'm about
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by Pagan:
quote:Originally posted by glassman:
quote:Originally posted by Pagan: Too be honest...CCM is nothing to me. Just some misguided fool on an MB. I was here when dardadog was here, as well as keithsan, the idian chick, and when you guys had that fiasco about that one stock LOL!. But that is beside the point. Have a good night.
actaully htere were about ten fiascos... oh wait, i better check the books it may be 9 or 11... i don't want to be wrong. good night to you too friend...
I'm sure your life is full of many more fiasco's than that. But I was referring strictly to stocks in that post
many and i have shared many of them here like screwing my hand to a door and and other mistakes, i'm not really that hung upabout being right like youthink, i'm a learner, i like learning and sharing ideas, i challenge others and myself to learn... that's what i do here, it shouldn't bother you so much-and sure i play at being compettive about it, but it's not an unhealthy competitveness, it's just what guys do...
Posted by Pagan on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: btw? you should not lie about your problem with CCM... that's not right. you do have a problem with him, and Iwish expressing concern for him brough tit out of you... think about that for awhile... i have never disrespectd you and i 'm not about to start now... it's not what i'm about
Iwish's post had nothing to do with anything. I have just been readin your post's the last couple days and felt the need to call BS. Because that is all those posts are. You have a good night as well friend.
Posted by glassman on :
for reference? the CMKX fiasco was really bad bfore you got here in '05. we had some people doing the pumnp on it that were posting things like they SAW diamonds with their own eyes and stuff... i never bought it, and i was newbie then and just watched how the thing developed... i ended up at full scale war with that debbie "what would Jesus do" girl who was pumping the hell out of it.. she claimed to be in for six figures and was using the Christian thing to try to convince peopel to buy it at .0001....
if that is the stock you are referring to, i never did much other then teell people to stay away form it
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: Originally Posted By CashCowMoo:
How far down the rabbit hole is our society? You want to be optimistic, but we seem to be really entering a new era of dramatic commons.
The smart are getting smarter, the dumb are getting dumber. Same thing with money. More poor with a strong rich.
We have some significant events ongoing and brewing in the middle east that will probably unfold in 2013. Dont forget the terrible drought the heartland is in and has been. Crops took a beating from last summer. I bet there is some money to be made in grain futures.
Have you seen the new Chinese attack helicopter? It looks pretty sweet actually.
Wont be long before we are outmatched in the skies and in the seas let alone land.
_________________________________________________
CashCowMoo, you need to find some things in life you really like to do and do them as often as you can.
Enjoy what you have and don't worry so much about what bad things might happen tomorrow.
Lifes to short and your to young to have this much time to worry.
I am not telling you what to do, just hoping you enjoy things more.
You spent many years following what others told you to do, now do what you really want to do, especially if you have your health and can do those things.
-
Oh I have many things I enjoy doing and am pursuing great things. Its hard to not worry about it sometimes. You just cant let it consume you, but still be aware.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by Pagan: Too be honest...CCM is nothing to me. Just some misguided fool on an MB. I was here when dardadog was here, as well as keithsan, the idian chick, and when you guys had that fiasco about that one stock LOL!. But that is beside the point. Have a good night.
You are as equally worthless to me Pagan. Are you surprised? I hope you find a better side for yourself. I think you refer to CMKX? CMKX was the first stock I ever bought. Put $3K in it and what a roller coaster. People to this day still believe in it.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Originally Posted By CashCowMoo: Oct-2008
That is my old brigade, and C co was my company I Was in Baghdad with my second tour. I am not shi*ing you when I tell you I knew that kid. He was in my platoon! 2nd platoon Charlie.
He was messed up in the head, but he was never ill-willed to his fellow soldiers. ------------------------------------------------- This article was about Fort Carson where he was stationed and me, of course at a lot different time.
Thought i remembered it being said, guess i could have just asked CashCowMoo.
- -
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Yeah wow how did you find that iwish? His name was marko. He was a mortarman. 11 Charlie. Anyway, this guy had the weirdest fascination with alien raptors, as in the dinosaurs. It is a long story. It was sick what he did. Here is the thing, that was some years ago. People dont look at other people with suspicion of doing something horrendous. I think we are entering a new era of paranoia. Instead of paranoia of big government, it is against your fellow American. Is Todd's son safe to be around my child? Does Mary and David keep guns in the home with their kids who hang out with mine"?
The thing with the crazy guy marko, you know if he would have seen a psychologist before joining its a 50-50 shot if they could have picked up on something. Same for anyone out there in life who talks to a psychologist or something similar. If you go and talk to them the real crazy types who are supposedly genius, they have the ability to fool the system to get them labeled as not a threat and sound for gun ownership. They will slide through the cracks.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Only took a few minutes, got lucky i guess.
Remembered you saying several times about your second tour, then saw the article about Fort Carson.
Kinda remembered this because of me being there(Fort Carson) also and sure enough it showed up.
-
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Sorry Glassman i misread your post about 03, then responded.
After re-reading i would have answered a little different.
-
Posted by glassman on :
they have the ability to fool the system to get them labeled as not a threat and sound for gun ownership. They will slide through the cracks.
and who will grade the tests anyway? remebr Catch -22? There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one's safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn't, but if he were sane he had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn't have to; but if he didn't want to he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle.
psychologuists will be afraid to rate people unfit for fear of being attacked bythem when they are told they can't have agun, and they will also be afriad of being sued by victims who feel they didn't grade somebody harshly enough... catch -22 all over again..
and saldy, poper evaluation cannot really be done without being face to face with people the psychs can't hide adn decide.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: Only took a few minutes, got lucky i guess.
Remembered you saying several times about your second tour, then saw the article about Fort Carson.
Kinda remembered this because of me being there(Fort Carson) also and sure enough it showed up.
-
4th ID is now HQ out of Carson. 2nd ID went to Lewis. They have expanded Carson quite a bit. There were always a good amount of women around there too. Good times at Carson.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Interesting to hear they are expanding Fort Carson, but it was and probably still is one of the major alert bases.
Many bases are cutting back but a few are growing, Camp Pendleton is expanding also, a new half billion dollar hospital is being built and quite a few other new buildings.
I enjoyed Carson, spent most of my time sking and visiting bars.
Fairly nice area even back in the sixties.
The ski area and olympic rink helped the area grow and the military bases(Army,Airforce) have brought lots of income in.
I have not been back since 70, but would like to see the area again some day.
=
Posted by glassman on :
one more "cosnpiracy theory factoid", when was the last time you heard something like this threat? ever?
am i going to be detained and arrested for specualting about possible conspiracies that might exist?
It seems rather weird the way the police are worried about social networks.
But without knowing the specifics of what they are referring to, its hard to draw much of anything from it, for me.
I am assuming that the people investigating this case have to be real carefull what they say, i am sure there could be legal consequences otherwise.
They are being legally advised before releasing anything to the public.
It will be quite a while before the public knows what really went on,if ever,it has to be a real nightmare for the investigators.
-
Posted by buckstalker on :
Did i hear him correctly...we the people can now be prosecuted for posting theories on the net?
Posted by buckstalker on :
quote:Originally posted by raybond: Glass you are going nuts
Ray...you have made statements here and have not responded with any proof of those statements...you are breaking the law and could be prosecuted for posting false information on the net...
You sir are NOT above the law...and therefore a criminal like the rest of us here
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
If you think about it, pagan shows a lot of anger in his posts. Like something is cooped up inside him kicking and screaming to get out. What is really going on in your mind pagan?
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by raybond: Glass you are going nuts
the last refuge of the wrong- personal attacks.
Posted by glassman on :
as to the cops threatening people about social media? i sortof watched that press release, and when he made that statement he got my whole attention..
i dunno what he is referring to but it's just more strangeness...
all i know is that there is a non-stop barrage of gun control messaging on CNN and MSNBC. Journalists are yelling at the camera, and being very emotional- i spent a few hours posting against it and am told i'm nuts, and or delusional because i think i know stuff i don't, (or something like that)
fact is? there is something wrong and i tis widepsread... and banning guns won't fix it. people resort to violence and name calling too easily. event he liberal shwo are supposedly out to save us form ourselves.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Originally Posted By Iwishihadn't:
Sometimes it can be heated as you well know, but all and all most don't mean much by it... hopefully -------------------------------------------------
I think i will take the 5TH on this one, if it still exists.
-
Posted by raybond on :
Glass it is not a personal attack it is a simple evaluation of your state of mind. -------------------------------------------------- Gun Lobbyist: Americans Should Be ‘Prepared’ To Take On Elected Officials With Guns
By Igor Volsky on Dec 17, 2012 at 6:38 pm
While the National Rife Association has remained silent about Friday’s tragic shooting in Newtown, CT, Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America, is arguing that Americans should bear arms to protect themselves against an ever-expanding government and elected officials.
Appearing on on MSNBC’s Hardball on Monday, Pratt — who immediately after the massacre accused gun safety advocates of having blood on their hands — claimed that had teachers at Sandy Hook elementary school had firearms, the shooting could have been prevented. He added that all Americans should have guns “in order to control the government”:
CHRIS MATTHEWS (HOST): So you’re like Sharron Angle, out in Nevada, who said we need our Second Amendment rights to control when our politicians get out of hand.
PRATT: That’s our Second Amendment rights, she’s not making that up.
MATTHEWS: So how would you use your Second Amendment rights if you didn’t like the way your congressman or senator is representing you? [...]
PRATT: By being prepared. [...]
MATTHEWS: So Larry, it’s not just the right to use guns to protect your homes, it’s the right to take on your government?
PRATT: The government has been overboard.
Pratt suggested that gun owners should use their weapons when the government steals elections or “after a long trail of abuses.” He also threw his support behind fundamentalist groups Branch Davidian.
Posted by glassman on :
twist it all you want raybond you posted here that YOU would take orders from whoever for wahtever and you call me crazy?
i would say 'simple" is the operative word there. you are missing most of the nuances and ignoring about 5000 years of human history and behaviour...
you can't dsicuss the facts, all you can do is make emotianl pleas that will simply make the whole country more dangerous.
oddly most people seem to realise this. but they "feel" liek they must "do something".
as to the issue of'taking onthegovernmnt" you are in disnyland if you think anything differnt.
theGovernmetn is a large set of people all struggling against each other for power, the Founders designed it that way. If they come out of balance and one "bad" set of people takes over? the People shall be there too. I know all the people think that's unthinkable, but i often wonder what the "normal" Germnas were thinking in 1934 too....
remeber that it was illegal to sell guns to the Americna Indians for a reason... even today they are still treated badly.
the Chinese Government agrees with you by the way, they are calling ofr more gun laws here too...... maybe you'd like to try out their way of govenrmtn over there for a couple years before you actually adopt it here--
crap, Egypt had a peaceful revolution and the guy they elcted turned right around and tried to make himself the new dictator... it's just human nature..the military is still running theplace anyway.
Posted by raybond on :
You are confirmed, at this point I think paraiond is the word for you.
By the way who threaten another civil war and death it was you if you did not get your way.
Nobody has said go door to door and take you guns even though it would be easy to do. I think your bunch would be like a fart in a wind storm.
I can quote you just as many social uoheavals where people had no guns to speak of stole them and won a revolution.
If protection from the government is what you are talking about please don't peotect me I can handle things myself.
All I can say is watch out who you threaten it is not a good thing to do even though it is an inferance I got the message.
You might be better off trying to handle your side at the voting both. The way public opion is swelling against you,you have a fight on your hands.Plus the senators and conggressmen loyal to thre nra are turning to. I shall have a list of them in the near future.
Posted by buckstalker on :
Well it's pretty damn clear where good ole ray stands now...if we don't follow the orders of his handlers, no matter how blatantly those orders violate the constitution, then he will enforce those orders without question...
Heil Raybond...
Posted by raybond on :
And it is very damn clear where good old buck stands.
The public opnion tide is turning against you and the rest of your cohorts. Its up to you how you want to handle it.
You will most likely have guns but not military ones. And my job was to never enforce law it was totally different and ad to the fact I am retired you won't be seeing me. fighting with you is something I will do at the ballot box.
Posted by raybond on :
Glass your morgan freeman post is wrong he said he never made those statements. Just thought I would bring it to your attention.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by buckstalker: Well it's pretty damn clear where good ole ray stands now...if we don't follow the orders of his handlers, no matter how blatantly those orders violate the constitution, then he will enforce those orders without question...
Heil Raybond...
This is what I have been telling the board for a while now! You see what I mean? He doesnt know any better.
Posted by raybond on :
Hey cash if what you talking about is you think there should be no restrictions on assault rifles why don't you go tell the 20 parents of the victims of that type of weapon.
by the way cash how do you stand on this sittuation. You have made a lot post and said nothing.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Man I watched MSNBC last night just to see them go off about guns. Matthews and Ed schultz were really foaming at the mouth. It doesnt mean they didnt have any possible good points, but I also saw them bending things and speaking about the technical of weapons...they didnt really know about.
Nidal Hassan? Remember the guy...the MAJOR in the Army from Fort Hood? They knew something was wrong with him and he just snapped anyway. Workplace violence remember?
Fast and furious....
Here is my problem. I think there should be something done about background checks (Which is pretty much the standard except certain situations). I dont trust the government to just stick with that and not do something more down the road. A little here, a little there, and before you know it you have softened society to it.
If a gun is semi auto...big deal. So what if it is an Ar-15. Its not an M-4. It doesnt have burst or full auto on it. What are you going to say about the next problem that takes a deeper solution instead of just passing new laws. Its all about new laws to you libs. Mega bills that are thousands of pages long. Filled with surprises and nobody reads them before voting on them. They are told how to vote by their party leader.
Was this kid not a genius? If he didnt have a gun, he would have done something different. Jim Jones Kool aid maybe. He would have accomplished what he wanted. Look how nasty our society is getting. You just love the occupy wall st folks because they come off as the modern day hippy, but these groups collectively have darker and more sinister minds. Not about peace and love anymore. Its "fight back" with the fists in the air. Mob rule.
Its getting uglier by the day and you never know what the tide will bring in. We got some deep problems that most simpletons in this country can not really understand. This nation needs healing on the most local of levels.
Why is it the families of gunshot victims are more special than families of brute force, other weapons, or strangulation? There is an agenda.
I really want to see what gets proposed. I think the laws on the books now make it clear. Murder is illegal. So is going out and hurting someone. Its illegal and it happened. So...make a new law on guns and guess what? People are going to break it and there is nothing you can do about it.
You cant own a gun if you have had domestic violence charges in most states I know. Cant be a felon, certain age limits.
Here is what would make the Democrats happy....new taxes. They loooooove new taxes and to tax guns and ammo more? Oh man that would be one of their golden calves. Of course they would squander the money away and it would never make it to what it was intended for.
Democrats had the government for two years. Congress and the White House, and they couldnt even pass gun control back then. Now, after this event they come out with it.
Lets get the FACTS out there and have a debate about it and see where it goes.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Chicago, a place where gun laws are strict. Then this happens. What are you going to do if these two kick in your door randomly to rob you?
Two convicted bank robbers were on the run after using a knotted rope or bed sheets to escape from a federal prison window high above downtown Chicago early Tuesday, a week after one of them made a courtroom vow of retribution. The escape occurred sometime between 5 a.m. and 8:45 a.m. when the inmates were discovered missing, Chicago Police Sgt. Mark Lazarro said. Hours later, what appeared to be a rope, knotted at six-foot intervals, could be seen dangling from a window of the Metropolitan Correctional Center approximately 20 stories above the ground. Joseph "Jose" Banks, 37, and Kenneth Conley, 38, had been wearing prison-issue orange jumpsuits, but now might be wearing white t-shirts, gray sweat pants and white gym shoes, Lazarro said. The FBI said the men were last seen together in the Tinley Park area, about 25 miles southwest of Chicago, and that they should be considered armed and dangerous. SWAT teams stormed a Tinley Park home early Tuesday afternoon, but the escapees were not there, FBI Special Agent Frank Bochte said. He said there was evidence the two had been there earlier, and authorities were using dogs and helicopters to search various places in the Chicago area where the two had connections. Banks is described as a black man, 5-feet-8, weighing 160 pounds. Conley is described as white, 6 feet tall, weighing 185 pounds. The men apparently descended from a thin window barely half a foot wide on the flat south side of the prison into the alley below. The wall faces a parking garage and is above air conditioning or heating units. Crowds of people gathered outside the building where the ropes still blew in the breeze, shaking their heads in disbelief that someone could have escaped from a lockup in the heart of downtown Chicago, just a block or two from key federal court and office buildings. The owners of several small shops across the street from the wall said they didn't see any police activity until around 8:30 a.m., when a dozen or more police cars and SWAT teams rushed into the area. Some police officers sprinted for a nearby subway entrance. "It was clearly already too late. They were long gone," said Randy Cohen, owner of the Royal Jewelry and Loans store 10 or 20 yards from where the inmates scaled down the rope. Homeland Security and U.S. Marshal's Service agents questioned him later in the morning and asked if security cameras on his building could have captured the escape or the men fleeing, Cohen said. He said he didn't think the cameras would have been pointed in the right direction. Liquor store owner Baljit Singh has a clear view of the side of the prison where the men escaped. She said there was no indication anything was amiss when she arrived at work at 7 a.m. The facility, which houses around 700 inmates, is one of the only skyscraper prisons in the world, said Jennifer Lucente of Chicago Architecture Foundation.
Posted by raybond on :
That did not say anything or mean anything.
Very short and easy I think they will bring back the ban on assault rifles. Both sides agreed on it once and it should be easy to a 2nd time.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
When will you be happy ray?
Posted by buckstalker on :
Ray will be happy when his handlers tell him to be happy...or when his beloved democrats have stripped us of every freedom that we have left...whichever comes first
Posted by raybond on :
Buckstalker who let you out of happy land. You know a place where civilians can play with ba-zooka's fully auto assult rifles my favorite is the french fa-mass what is yours.
oh I am sorry your playing with your flame thrower. And I heard such good news we can now hunt rabbits with a bar.
Posted by glassman on :
again Ray you are ignoring the 2nd amnemdent and preteding they said something they most certaily did not.
the 2nd speak of militias which are private armies. not rabbbit hunting.
you WANT to beleive i'm crazy saying this, you want to belive that the good guys won decades ago and that only honest and caring people run the coutnry- we can all coast into Shangri'La now if we jsut think happy thoughts...... that's crazy ray. real evil is in the world- there's no explaing this, you see me even try to explain it and i know it's futile, but you and others get upset... i am upset too, but i am not letting my judgement get clouded.
The Chinese have teh model for where we'll be if they take our guns, and you cannot say that a gun that LOOKS like a militiary gun but is not, is more dangerous than other guns...
criminals tend to use chep revolvers for crimes, know why? they don't dump shell casing ont eh floor so ou don't have to police your brass to hide... the AR15 is a fine defnsive wepaon.
to be honest? i watched the news as it broke, you and i were posting here remebr? they didn't say anything about the M4 until the end of the day... all day they said it was a glcok and a sig, and those are cops guns cuz they are light. the rifkle was in his car, remebr that? then they said that shells for it were in the school... does tha not make you wonder what's really going on? now they are reportint it was the rifle... that was used to kill the kids, how did it get back in the car then? tellme how, i am interested
there already over 4 million AR15's in circulation.
thre are no real M4's in circuakltion because it is not available to the public
this is why i thnk there is alot of craziness, because people ARE LYING one hell of alot and they don't care about the truth if it gets tehm what they want...
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
This is who you do not want having an AR-15 easily available, but ray will say its racist oppression. Ray needs to open his mind in order to fix the real problems. The mentality behind this is a puzzle piece to the bigger problem. Ban the guns so we are a nation disarmed, and apologize for acts of violence by a sample of the population.
quote:Originally posted by raybond: Buckstalker who let you out of happy land. You know a place where civilians can play with ba-zooka's fully auto assult rifles my favorite is the french fa-mass what is yours.
oh I am sorry your playing with your flame thrower. And I heard such good news we can now hunt rabbits with a bar.
Again ray your ignorance blinds you...the weapon used in this crime was NOT a "military" gun, it was NOT a fully automatic assault rifle, a bazooka , an rpg, or a flame thrower...
It was an AR-15 (and we aren't even sure about that)...it was NOT fully automatic, it does NOT launch grenades and it does NOT shoot fireballs.
The weapons you speak of are almost impossible to get, require mountains of paperwork with the ATF and are EXPENSIVE as hell to own, shoot and maintain...
You have let your emotions take over your brain and we all know that that is just plain FOOLISH...
Posted by raybond on :
Happy land was fantasy and humor. but you would like that stuff. But now that your bunch is through stomping on the 1ST amendment. What you sound like was the folks that wanted automatic weapons. And said it was there right to own them.
But that is not what I am going to say society has a right to protect itself and just because nothing has happened to you and you can't feel the pain does not take away the problem. I know what your arguments are I have herd them all. The fact of life is you are a minority in your beliefe now and things will change. Wherther or not you want them to as to what degree I can't tell you. Assault rifles will have a ban of some sort. You have to start some place. The only advice I have is if you want one get one now so you can be grandfstherd in.
Like the saying goes freedom of speech does not give you the right to yell fire in a crowed theater. The right of bering arms does not give the freedom of buying the tools of mass murder to thoes that want to use it for that reason.
Posted by jordanreed on :
stop the world , I want to get off
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by raybond: Happy land was fantasy and humor. but you would like that stuff. But now that your bunch is through stomping on the 1ST amendment. What you sound like was the folks that wanted automatic weapons. And said it was there right to own them.
But that is not what I am going to say society has a right to protect itself and just because nothing has happened to you and you can't feel the pain does not take away the problem. I know what your arguments are I have herd them all. The fact of life is you are a minority in your beliefe now and things will change. Wherther or not you want them to as to what degree I can't tell you. Assault rifles will have a ban of some sort. You have to start some place. The only advice I have is if you want one get one now so you can be grandfstherd in.
Like the saying goes freedom of speech does not give you the right to yell fire in a crowed theater. The right of bering arms does not give the freedom of buying the tools of mass murder to thoes that want to use it for that reason.
ray, do you really belive that post? i have seen NO polls showing that majority of US Citizens want more gun bans- in fact, the people are buying them faster now becsuase they are afraid they won't be able to inth efuture...
nobody is stomping on 1st ammendment rights thru this.
"assault weapons" are already heavily regualted, i've told yo this a dozne times. there were no asult rifles involved in this case- AR-15 are not assault rifles, they just look like them...
when you have to change the name of something to get your legislation to be popular, soemthig is wrong with you and the legislation. call it waht it is and suddenly you sound foolish that's why the lies...
the assault weaon bans they passed before were basically geared againt bayonnets and bayonnette lugs.... the ten round magaizine rule is of no consequence, it will only affect people that are involved in serious gunfigths with multipple attackers. it takes 3 seconds to swap clips if you are slow...
i can pulla hundred articles right now with quotes where the anti-gun people are plainly sayuing that they need to pass this legsialtion right now because people will forget. what that really menas is they want to pass the legislation while people are mourning and in pain... and not beign rational.
no-one get safer from any laws i have seen proposed.
lastly it is wrong to insist that i feel no pain over this, and just another emotioanl plea from yo to "do antying" even if it is stupid adn will restrict our rights.
Posted by raybond on :
Of course I believe in what I posted. And I hope you can take the small changes in the law like an adult.
Cheer up you will always have cow pie he will talk you through it.
Posted by a surfer on :
quote:Originally posted by raybond: Of course I believe in what I posted. And I hope you can take the small changes in the law like an adult.
Cheer up you will always have cow pie he will talk you through it.
Just another small change....
Ray you have become a nuscance to freedom. You have served your entire life and this is all you have for our country...turning your back on all that you strived for.
Take the blinders off. You have been brainwashed.
You criticize others more than discuss the facts and deserve to be banned for life.
CCM is so much more of an American patriot than you'll ever come close to being.
Posted by buckstalker on :
quote:Originally posted by raybond: Happy land was fantasy and humor. but you would like that stuff. But now that your bunch is through stomping on the 1ST amendment. What you sound like was the folks that wanted automatic weapons. And said it was there right to own them.
But that is not what I am going to say society has a right to protect itself and just because nothing has happened to you and you can't feel the pain does not take away the problem. I know what your arguments are I have herd them all. The fact of life is you are a minority in your beliefe now and things will change. Wherther or not you want them to as to what degree I can't tell you. Assault rifles will have a ban of some sort. You have to start some place. The only advice I have is if you want one get one now so you can be grandfstherd in.
Like the saying goes freedom of speech does not give you the right to yell fire in a crowed theater. The right of bering arms does not give the freedom of buying the tools of mass murder to thoes that want to use it for that reason.
Ray...get this through your thick azz brainwashed skull...
I am NOT in happy land knowing that 20 innocent kids have just been murdered!!!!
To insinuate that I don't feel any pain right now, or that I don't feel any empathy towards the victims or their families is phucking INSANE, and I am NOT going to sit here quietly while you slander me with your emotional drivel...
I have 4 daughters and 3 grandkids so I know very well how I would feel if one of them were murdered. I am deeply saddened that this kind of chit happens...but GUNS AREN'T THE PHUCKING PROBLEM!!!
I DON"T GIVE A RATS AZZ HOW MANY GUN LAWS YOU PASS IT WILL NOT PREVENT THIS FROM HAPPENING AGAIN...
Nows it's time for me to execise my rights under the 1st amendment...PHUCK YOU RAY!!!!
Posted by raybond on :
Same to you
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by raybond: Of course I believe in what I posted. And I hope you can take the small changes in the law like an adult.
Cheer up you will always have cow pie he will talk you through it.
LOL... you are the one acting like a child. claiming that if we don;t think like you we have soethign worng with us and such..
you ain't even offering any facts here, i know little old ladies with more guts than you.. lots of 'em.
we will see wha the laws they propose are and then we'll see if they are small or not... but the 2nd says shall not be infringed, and they've been infringing and the gun-owners have already been reasonable...
it's you emotional knee-jerkers that are being unreasonable... you can't stop suicidal maniacs. no matter how many laws you pass, they'll still find a way
Posted by raybond on :
same to you.
Posted by Pagan on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman:
quote:Originally posted by raybond: Of course I believe in what I posted. And I hope you can take the small changes in the law like an adult.
Cheer up you will always have cow pie he will talk you through it.
LOL... you are the one acting like a child. claiming that if we don;t think like you we have soethign worng with us and such..
you ain't even offering any facts here, i know little old ladies with more guts than you.. lots of 'em.
we will see wha the laws they propose are and then we'll see if they are small or not... but the 2nd says shall not be infringed, and they've been infringing and the gun-owners have already been reasonable...
it's you emotional knee-jerkers that are being unreasonable... you can't stop suicidal maniacs. no matter how many laws you pass, they'll still find a way
Didn't you just say recently that those with a weak argument resort to personal attacks? Do you need me to look that up or do you remember that post you made?
So does that mean your argument has no merit, or you were FOS on that previous post? Just curious as to how you can have it both ways. I'm SURE you'll splain it.
Posted by buckstalker on :
quote:Originally posted by Pagan:
quote:Originally posted by glassman:
quote:Originally posted by raybond: Of course I believe in what I posted. And I hope you can take the small changes in the law like an adult.
Cheer up you will always have cow pie he will talk you through it.
LOL... you are the one acting like a child. claiming that if we don;t think like you we have soethign worng with us and such..
you ain't even offering any facts here, i know little old ladies with more guts than you.. lots of 'em.
we will see wha the laws they propose are and then we'll see if they are small or not... but the 2nd says shall not be infringed, and they've been infringing and the gun-owners have already been reasonable...
it's you emotional knee-jerkers that are being unreasonable... you can't stop suicidal maniacs. no matter how many laws you pass, they'll still find a way
Didn't you just say recently that those with a weak argument resort to personal attacks? Do you need me to look that up or do you remember that post you made?
So does that mean your argument has no merit, or you were FOS on that previous post? Just curious as to how you can have it both ways. I'm SURE you'll splain it.
Pagan...I know that you don't like Glass, but you are seeing something here that doesn't exist...
I'm not seeing any personal attacks in Glassman's post...I see facts
If they were construed to be personal attacks, I'm pretty sure that they would be in response to rayboy personally attacking him, and nothing to do with a weak argument on Glass's end...
The only "weak argument" here is rayboy who has yet to provide any type of argument (other than emotional rhetoric) and refuses to debate with any type of facts
Re-read the thread
Posted by raybond on :
As to this not happening again. I agree with the President nothing we do can promise to a 100% stop but you have to start some where. I will post my proof when the polls come in as of now all the polls the LA times has to show are the ones they took before the newtown school shoot up. and they show a yes for banning assault rifles by a 10 t0 14 point margin
Posted by raybond on :
The only argument I have thus far I have stated it. Public opinion is on the side of banning assault rifles and large capcity mags. 100% backgrund checks. and the stopping of gun show sales unless there is a background check and a waiting period.
As to what will pass I can't say and thats where I stand,if you don't like it tough I could care less.
Posted by raybond on :
Stat of the Day 62% of Americans Now Support a Ban on Semi-Automatic Assault Rifles and Clips
Reuters
Esther Zuckerman Dec 19, 2012
Obama was right. On the same day the president said at a press conference that a "majority of Americans support banning the sale of military-style assault weapons" and "high-capacity ammunition clips" a new CNN/ORC International poll finds just that. Sixty-two percent of the 620 Americans polled between Monday and Tuesday support banning semi-automatic assault guns and high-capacity clips. That said, in an ABC News-Washington Post poll released earlier this week only 52 percent of those surveyed supported a ban on semi-automatic handguns. In the earlier poll, conducted between Friday and Sunday, 59 percent supported banning high-capacity clips, a much closer figure. In 2004, when the last assault-weapons ban ran out, Sen. Dianne Feinstein cited an earlier poll claiming that 77 percent of Americans wanted to renew the ban. Feinstein now says she will propose legislation in January for a ban on assault rifles — a measure "actively" supported by President Obama, the White House says — and on high-capacity clips, which the White House says "is something certainly that he would be interested in looking at."
Though it's hard to interpret how the National Rifle Association feels about Obama's newfound position (though we can guess), the NRA tweeted for the second time since the Newtown shooting Wednesday afternoon about the president's support for banning such weapons:
Posted by raybond on :
Stat of the Day 62% of Americans Now Support a Ban on Semi-Automatic Assault Rifles and Clips
Reuters
Esther Zuckerman Dec 19, 2012
Obama was right. On the same day the president said at a press conference that a "majority of Americans support banning the sale of military-style assault weapons" and "high-capacity ammunition clips" a new CNN/ORC International poll finds just that. Sixty-two percent of the 620 Americans polled between Monday and Tuesday support banning semi-automatic assault guns and high-capacity clips. That said, in an ABC News-Washington Post poll released earlier this week only 52 percent of those surveyed supported a ban on semi-automatic handguns. In the earlier poll, conducted between Friday and Sunday, 59 percent supported banning high-capacity clips, a much closer figure. In 2004, when the last assault-weapons ban ran out, Sen. Dianne Feinstein cited an earlier poll claiming that 77 percent of Americans wanted to renew the ban. Feinstein now says she will propose legislation in January for a ban on assault rifles — a measure "actively" supported by President Obama, the White House says — and on high-capacity clips, which the White House says "is something certainly that he would be interested in looking at."
Though it's hard to interpret how the National Rifle Association feels about Obama's newfound position (though we can guess), the NRA tweeted for the second time since the Newtown shooting Wednesday afternoon about the president's support for banning such weapons:
Posted by buckstalker on :
quote:Originally posted by raybond: Of course I believe in what I posted. And I hope you can take the small changes in the law like an adult.
Cheer up you will always have cow pie he will talk you through it.
LOL... you are the one acting like a child. claiming that if we don;t think like you we have soethign worng with us and such..
you ain't even offering any facts here, i know little old ladies with more guts than you.. lots of 'em.
we will see wha the laws they propose are and then we'll see if they are small or not... but the 2nd says shall not be infringed, and they've been infringing and the gun-owners have already been reasonable...
it's you emotional knee-jerkers that are being unreasonable... you can't stop suicidal maniacs. no matter how many laws you pass, they'll still find a way
Didn't you just say recently that those with a weak argument resort to personal attacks? Do you need me to look that up or do you remember that post you made?
So does that mean your argument has no merit, or you were FOS on that previous post? Just curious as to how you can have it both ways. I'm SURE you'll splain it.
pagan. fact is? the poltical proponents of passing new anti-gun laws plainly state that they have to do something fast while people are still emotionally distraught over htis latest massacre or they'll lose intiative. so accusing him of being emotional and having knee-jerk reaction is not namecalling, it is an obeservation. and as to accusing hiom of acting like achild? he is the one who keeps making things up that are just not facs to support his argumrent, like accusing me and buck of wanting to hunt rabiits with flamethrowers and our "need' for grenades"... that is childlike behavior... and i do know little old ladies with more gut than him... i come form a long line of 'em...
i could cutandpaste ten articls starting with an interview of Rahm Emanuel wahere he specifically said that we a have narrow window of opportunity to get this legislation done before public sentiment becomes less emotianl about it...
try to find something more on point to critisize me for...
do you have any opinion on the subject other than to critize me or is that all you are good for anymore?
banning miltatry -STYLE weapons reall yi sjust fashion statemnt. a semiautomatic weapons have been legal since they were invented. a gun that LOOK like a miltary weapon is just that. agun that LOOKS military. there is huge difffernce between a real assault rifle and a semiautomatic rifle... about 700 rds per minute differnce...
and banning clps size? will not do anything to save anyone.. just another stupid law...
braybond is posting alot of proapgnda... there was a guy who worte papaer whne clinton was in office "proving" that the 2nd was not about prvate gun ownership... hisstuff was even being taught in schools until his work was found to be totally false, he calimed to have used firearms registries from the turn of the century and before (1900) - but when they went to look at his data? it didn't exist, cuz the records had ben lost int eh '09 San Fran Quake... both liberal and Dems are guilty of propagnadising -- i won;t stand for eothjer side doing it..
the 2nd ammend say shall not be infringed, reasonale people have already give up grenades adn flamethrowers and full auot for the most part, but semi-auto rifles should be legal and if they try tak ethem awy? there will be alot pewopl voted out of office.
remeber that DC had a 30 year gun ban overturned by teh SCOTUS a couple years ago--
Posted by raybond on :
Interesting but I have my own opinion from thoes facts.
By the way buck and glass you have yelled and screamed long enough finger pointed ect.ect. But you have failed so to say where you stand. It would be interesting to learn that from you on this issue. You know back ground checks, waiting periods,Gun shows a legal way for felons to purchase fire arms are yo for changing that I am.How do you feel about such things.
So far 62% of americans have shown how they feel.
Posted by raybond on :
Justice
‘Haunted’ By Newtown, Pro-Gun Senator Backs New Gun Laws
By Josh Israel posted from ThinkProgress Justice on Dec 20, 2012 at 10:00 am
Sen. Robert Casey Jr. (D-PA)
Sen. Robert Casey Jr. (D-PA) has received an “A” rating from the National Rifle Association and campaigned in his 2012 re-election race on his “record of supporting the Second Amendment and the interests of Pennsylvania sportsmen.” But after Friday’s tragedy in Connecticut, Casey has switched positions and now supports banning assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition clips.
On Monday, Casey indicated that he would be open to considering new gun laws. In his initial statement, he said, “These senseless acts of violence are unacceptable. Addressing them will require a comprehensive strategy that acknowledges all of the factors that contributed to this tragedy and takes every appropriate step to protect our citizens, especially our kids. Everything should be on the table.”
Wednesday, the Philadelphia Inquirer reports, Pennsylvania’s senior senator said he was “haunted” by the Newtown shootings and ready to back two major gun control proposals:
Furrowing his brow and casting his eyes downward, Casey expressed regret that he had not reconsidered his views as starkly after earlier massacres at Virginia Tech and in Aurora, Colo.
“The power of the weapon, the number of bullets that hit each child, that was so, to me, just so chilling, it haunts me. It should haunt every public official,” said Casey, who won a second term six weeks ago while touting his opposition to gun control.
In the days since the shooting that killed 20 children and eight adults, the debate around gun laws has shifted. Democrats have called for reinstating the assault-weapons ban and barring magazines that hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition.
“If those two bills come before the Senate, I’ll vote for both,” Casey said. He said his decision amounted to being “summoned by your conscience.”
A growing number of lawmakers on both sides of the aisle have said this week that they are reconsidering their opposition to gun control. President Obama announced Wednesday that he has has created a task force to recommend steps to prevent future tragedies like Sandy Hook and the many others the nation has endured since Columbine
Posted by glassman on :
62% of 620 people? grasping at strwas are we? call up people in NYC or San fran and you can get that numebr no problem...
i have not yelled and screamed either ray, you are the one ranting and raving and you are ont he side of people that admit they need to act quick while people are emotianlly distraught ove rhtis tragedy. you have onehellofalot of nerve accusing me of not caring too... that's just BS, but that's what you are up to here anyway and you know it...
i voted for Obama based on the fact that he ran on NOT attacking gun rights.
Posted by raybond on :
Thank you Pagan it was getting a little lonley out there.
You were spot on they have never said where they stand. I have heard a lot About China and what it does.
Posted by raybond on :
Tisk, Tisk Where and what do you stand for. calm down and quit acting like a hick in a cathose.
Love, Ray
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by raybond: Thank you Pagan it was getting a little lonley out there.
You were spot on they have never said where they stand. I have heard a lot About China and what it does.
we aren't the ones quoting polling of 620 people and calling it "The American People"... LOL... that is propaganda
Posted by raybond on :
Thats just the begining glass. by the way where do you stand larger poll several weeks ago showed a lower percentage. by the way what are yor proofs
Posted by raybond on :
I am not grasping straws on anything its just the start we have a long way to go and sounds like you are in for the long haul. Don't worry there will be a lot more polls Glass I think they will fall against you.
Posted by Upside on :
quote:Originally posted by buckstalker: Nows it's time for me to execise my rights under the 1st amendment...PHUCK YOU RAY!!!!
I realize this is a serious and emotional issue but it just goes to show you, humor can be found in everything.
The comment above by Bulkstalker had me laughing harder than any comment I've ever read here.
Posted by raybond on :
Same to you Bucky
Posted by raybond on :
see you guys in about 48 hours goig to take a little 2 day trip to celabrate
Posted by glassman on :
celabrate waht? new laws restricting our rights or that that the left got handed a chance to have politcal victory no matter the price?
Posted by buckstalker on :
quote:Originally posted by raybond: Interesting but I have my own opinion from thoes facts.
By the way buck and glass you have yelled and screamed long enough finger pointed ect.ect. But you have failed so to say where you stand. It would be interesting to learn that from you on this issue. You know back ground checks, waiting periods,Gun shows a legal way for felons to purchase fire arms are yo for changing that I am.How do you feel about such things.
So far 62% of americans have shown how they feel.
Ray...are you being serious or are you just plain STUPID?
I could learn more by talking to a log...
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
You know i am not a gun lover.
I have never owned one and never shot one except for a bb gun, before i was in the military.
I have never picked one up since.
But it is a Constitutional right to own one.
I am so sick of our rights being taken away, little by little.
We keep sending our Military to foreign lands to protect other countries rights and supposedly to protect ours.
Many losing their lives and being wounded on the battlefield, for this privledge of freedom.
This is something we have done for a long time.
We need to protect more of our own rights instead of worrying so much about others.
I know one way or the other, some amount of our rights will to be given up to achieve more protection for our children, because of these events.
But lets find a better way than is being suggested now to achieve that.
We all know that the criminals will still get what they want anyway, which has been stated many times before on this board.
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Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by buckstalker:
quote:Originally posted by raybond: Interesting but I have my own opinion from thoes facts.
By the way buck and glass you have yelled and screamed long enough finger pointed ect.ect. But you have failed so to say where you stand. It would be interesting to learn that from you on this issue. You know back ground checks, waiting periods,Gun shows a legal way for felons to purchase fire arms are yo for changing that I am.How do you feel about such things.
So far 62% of americans have shown how they feel.
Ray...are you being serious or are you just plain STUPID?
I could learn more by talking to a log...
I have been explaining that situation for some time now.
Posted by buckstalker on :
Honestly CCM...you and 007 are quite similar in a lot of ways...the big difference is that you are on opposite sides of the fence...
Both of you are party parrots and you both spread propaganda
Posted by glassman on :
we better ban tornadoes too:
both bans will be similarly effective Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Originally Posted By CashCowMoo:
I have been explaining that situation for some time now. -------------------------------------------------
Know when you have made your point, sometimes it looks like the point wasn't the issue, which starts to take away from your point.
NRA speaking now. Wants a police officer in every school.
Posted by glassman on :
his pointabout kids seeing over 10,000 people die in movies and TV before they are 18 is well made.
the same people who push all this violence for entertainemtn and PROFIT then want to make an inanimate object the probelm?
Posted by a surfer on :
How bout the elmentary killing kids game??? WTF
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Originally Posted By Glassman:
his pointabout kids seeing over 10,000 people die in movies and TV before they are 18 is well made.
the same people who push all this violence for entertainemtn and PROFIT then want to make an inanimate object the probelm? -------------------------------------------------
I have brought the issue up several times before.
They try and make the killing of people as real as possible and as grusome as possible, on tv and at the movies.
It almost seems like the more the violence the higher the ratings go.
We know in the earilier days of movies etc. we still got the point, but without all the special effects for death, i actually liked it better ealier.
But people seem to want more of real, or they would not be making the money they do on films and tv, that push this point.
I feel it increases the likely hood of these events a little, because it seems to glorify the deaths and of such events.
Not everyone is on the good guys side.
Posted by buckstalker on :
quote:Originally posted by a surfer: Wants a police officer in every school.
Why no one has come up with this solution before is what baffles me...we have armed guards for politicians, movie stars, diplomats, sports figures, etc. etc...
Yet we do not offer our kids the same protection...
Posted by raybond on :
Let me point out that armed personnel at Columbine High School and Fort Hood could not stop mass shootings.
Posted by raybond on :
celabrate waht? new laws restricting our rights or that that the left got handed a chance to have politcal victory no matter the price? as posted by glassman!!!!!
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None of your damn business why I am going out for a couple of days.
Now get back behind you 82 year old mothers skirt.
Why would you bring your dear 82 year old mother into a talk like this. She is most likely a very good women.
see you around faggot
Posted by T e x on :
quote:Originally posted by buckstalker:
quote:Originally posted by a surfer: Wants a police officer in every school.
Why no one has come up with this solution before is what baffles me...we have armed guards for politicians, movie stars, diplomats, sports figures, etc. etc...
Yet we do not offer our kids the same protection...
Well, we used to.
At least in my part of the country.
Anybody can look up literature, diaries, newspaper accounts and so forth to verify that once upon a time not so very long ago my part of the world was rife with savage behavior.
Accordingly, if kids wanted to venture much beyond the purview of the near ground, the adults would make up an excuse for a "picnic," or some such, so that armed adults would be around. Perhaps the most famous example of lax security is the kidnapping of Cynthia Ann Parker, white mother to one of the last great Chiefs.
A unique window in history has passed us by, when "no one locked their doors," and "we kids could go anywhere."
Throughout history, dealing with the savage has been a continual, chronic problem. Teach your children well and gird your loins--to paraphrase the Bible...the savage we always have with us.
Posted by glassman on :
that unique window in history isn't a window Tex, it's a TV/movie screen.
don't climb the Texas Tower was what people said when i was a teen in DC or don't go postal. people were doing it even during the relative peace of the 50's.
it's myth that we have ever lived without savagery... and even worse? allot of waht we call civilised behaviousr is actually savagery perpetuated on people we have labeled savages as an excuse to perpetrate the savagery ourselves. the whole Colonial period is rife with it
Posted by buckstalker on :
quote:Originally posted by raybond: Let me point out that armed personnel at Columbine High School and Fort Hood could not stop mass shootings.
Neither will more gun laws...
Posted by buckstalker on :
Here is a list of the 25 most dangerous cities in the U.S.
I live about 20 min east of Flint and about 45 min north of Detroit...
It is a fairly rural area with a good mix of blue/white collar people and was once one of the richest counties in the nation...
It is a relatively safe place to live considering it's proximity to the top 2 most dangerous cities in the US, and the reason that it is safe is because it's law abiding citizens are WELL ARMED and the criminals know it...
Take away our guns and theses hoodlums would have a field day up here...
Posted by raybond on :
If you look at armed security in school it would have to work if it is done right because we have a great history to profile the events.
Frist of all it should be mandatory in every school in the country and all training of officers should be handled on a federal level.School security should be its own dept. That attends to its own special needs. Local law enforce ment and school security should work hand in hand and security should be under the authority of the educators on site.
From what I have heard there is over 20,000 schools with armed security in them now all dis organized and different.What we don't know is how many shootings these guards prevented by just having there presents on duty.
Posted by glassman on :
president Clinton first introduced the idea for armed guards after Colombine. As i understand it? It got approved but never got funded.
There is something creepy about having an armed guard at an elementary school, but not as creepy as what we've been seing out of society lately....
we were runnign a thread here about odd behaviours after that guy ate somebodies face off ( can you belive we are even talikng about this seriuosly? ) and the list of incidents populated very quickly, pilots and airline crews flipping out etc.....
i heard the Mayor of newark on one of themoerning shows today, Corey Booker. I've heard alot of good things about him and i see why we've been hearing them now... he could be on the way to real greatness, he's still young b.1969, he spoke with wisdom, and he was calm..... i was impressed with him, and he is liberal but not ultra- just as im conservative but not ultra.... (even on guns bond? you'll find that if you put out rational laws that will do something and are not just a placebeo that allows people to pretnd they did something? I will listen to them...
background checks without keeping lists? i support
Corey spoke of shutting down the secondary market, as in private to private purchases- that's what alot of the gun shows have going on.the people in genral wnat to stop it and it COULD be stopped as long as private to private people are allowed to go to an FFL and have them run the checks for the parties for small fee of course.i pay 25$ now to use that service whn i order from an out of state customiser. if they don't do the checks? then jail.... there's lots of people who have given up the right to keep arms, and they should be kept away from them.... i belive the penalty is already very stiff if they get caught....
silnecers are an issue that i looked into carefully when i was raising and breeding exotic brids and animals in the great Dismal swamp we had alot of prdation attempts, most failed, but they didn;t stop just cuz i scared them. The local sharrif was willing to write up my permit application to get the stamp and pay 200$ per silencer. This will help disturb the valuble breeders less. whne i looked up the laws? it was 10 to life for owning one without the permit/tax stamp... that's serious time for a couple peices of sheet metal that doen'st really work all that great... i understand they have much better ones now, but none of them are pFFT PFFFT like on TV... they have a fairly loud bang close by just don't carry the sound very far.
anyway, i think mostreasobale gun folks are OK with that, and not being able to just buy any old full auto.... banning the large clips won't change anything...
the hardest part is going to be setting up some sort of mental health measuring system that can be applied fairly and equally....
Posted by raybond on :
The information for mental illness is already on file along with your regular medical info. If you have ever been to a doctor or have been in the military. It is called the MIB and is headquatered out of Boston . The info there needs to be updated and streamlined and organized better. There biggest customers now are insurace co's.But the MIB could be your first and only stop with a small investment, To check out an aplication for mental illness.
Most people never knew about the MIB until about 1974 then they wish they had never found out about them.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Originally Posted By Tex:
A unique window in history has passed us by, when "no one locked their doors," and "we kids could go anywhere _________________________________________________
It really was different when we were growing up.
But i also wonder how many things went on that we really never knew about, and some we did find out later, like within the churches.
Back then kids say did not mean much over what an adult said.
So how much was buried?
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Posted by glassman on :
I grew up about ten years after you iwish,
i'm the last of the baby boomers. it depends in how you want to define the end of the baby boom, 1960 to 1963... which makes Obama and me th in the same group....
it was just not that "safe" even then... i was taught how to try to meorise where i am if i were kidnapped and blindfolded in car when i was about 7... and for very good reasons i might add...
IMO th eponly things that havereally cahnged much is how much people focus on all the bad all the time now. thank cable tv...
life is hard, making it good for you and the peole you care about should be your "mission" and there are no damn garantees.
Posted by rounder1 on :
The government should not ban any weapon that they are willing to sell to mexican drug cartels....... sorry.... couldn't resist
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Originally Posted By Rounder1:
The government should not ban any weapon that they are willing to sell to mexican drug cartels....... sorry.... couldn't resist -------------------------------------------------
And how many other countries that come back to bite us later.
Sell to other countries bad guys, who sell them back to our countries bad guys.
What do they call that, cycle selling?
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Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Well we sold to Iraq, and to Afghanistan. Who knows who else. Ironically those are two countries we invaded.
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can you belive we are even talikng about this seriuosly? ) and the list of incidents populated very quickly, pilots and airline crews flipping out etc..... ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
that's serious time for a couple peices of sheet metal that doen'st really work all that great... i understand they have much better ones now, but none of them are pFFT PFFFT like on TV... they have a fairly loud bang close by just don't carry the sound very far.