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Author Topic: Any union people here?
glassman
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here, play with this RE listing site, adj your parameters to see what the cheapest 2 BR 2 BA home isin the Bay Area CA, i think you'll get sick.

http://www.ziprealty.com/buy_a_home/search/form/map.jsp?updatedMap=true

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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buckstalker
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quote:
Originally posted by SeekingFreedom:
We've asked this before, Buck, but I'll try again. What the heck? I might get lucky...

What IS a living wage in your opinion? What constitutes a fair wage? Not in terms of dollars and cents, but in terms of what it can afford in a generic working area.

quote:
Both sides are trying to get what is best for themselves and in a union setting, they do that through BARGAINING...NOT EXTORTION
Bargaining, Buck, it give and take. I offer you X for you giving me Y. Threatening to shut down your business (through striking you entire workforce) is not bargaining. That's extortion imo. Sorry we can't agree on it.

quote:
I can tell by your answers that you are young, have NEVER belonged to a union, and have never been an employer...

You seem like a fairly intelligent young man SF, but you really need to develop a "sense of community"

No, I've never been part of a Union, though my brother is. I've never been an employer but I have had to lead\manage medium sized groups of people. The regular laws I have to sift through to do so is by far enough for me. To have to deal with Union rules on top of that would be insane to me.

quote:
As far as my pension goes...that was negotiated as part of my WAGE agreement...it is not an entitlement and who in the phuck are you to utter such nonsense...
Who am I? I'm the guy that has to pay more for American made items because of Union contracts, Buck. That's who I am.

And your wage agreement? You think it ok to 'bargain' for a GUARANTEED income long after you no longer contribute to the company? What's the average life expectancy for you, Buck? mid 80's? If you retired at, what, 49, that means you're drawning a full pension for over 30 years! Longer than you were at the job in most cases. That wouldn't be AS bad if you weren't ALSO drawing a higher salary than non-union while you were there in the first place.

And ALL of that cost gets put back on me and everyone else that buys your product.

quote:
SF...The "worker" IS the "consumer"...

Which is my point! By forcing the business to pay more in wages, you are increasing your own expenses. By expanding Unions, you will increase the price YOU pay for everything they touch.

quote:
Maybe I was wrong about your intelligence...
That's up to you to decide. [Razz]

OK, I've decided...you don't have a clue, you have zero sense of community, you lack common sense, and you mirror the mantra of characters like Rush and Glen...

BTW...I guarantee you that if it were not for unions, YOUR paycheck would be MUCH smaller and YOUR working conditions would be MUCH worse...

One more thing that might be of interest to you...I am for the most part a conservative...

--------------------
***********************

It's all in the timing...

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glassman
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sometimes i wonder why anybody would listen to someone making 100 million $ to sit on their fat ass and talk stupid about other people.

it's hilarious that anybody would complain about Union people who actually do real work while they repeat the absurdities of the guy that's really ripping them off.

SF, you do realise that advertising costs and other overhead are in your "cost" too?


Rush limbugger and Glen Beck? What exaclty do they produce beyond mindnumbing drivel and hot air?

i am pissed off that my Electric company Entergy is running several adds every day during the local news shows telling me how they work so hard to cut my electricity cost. I pay for those G-damn adds, and i cannot shop for my Alternating Current, and i cannot hook solar to my grid either cuz they will not allow me.

Drug Co's tell us they need to charge so much for their new drugs due to high research costs?

go look at their filings statements. All of 'em spend several times what they spend in R&D (which is labor) on ADVERTISING, to patients who cannot even write prescriptions... and how much did Bush GIVE the drug co's in the way of our tax dollars thru medicare/medicaid?

SF, your complaints about working people getting paid too much are absurd.

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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SeekingFreedom
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quote:
OK, I've decided...you don't have a clue, you have zero sense of community, you lack common sense, and you mirror the mantra of characters like Rush and Glen...

Really? That's too bad. All that on the basis of my having an opinion different from yours?

quote:
One more thing that might be of interest to you...I am for the most part a conservative...
Which is why I hate when this subject gets brought up. You and I don't differ, significantly, on most issues. This just happens to be one that you have a very strong opinion that is diametrically opposed to mine. (shrug)

That doesn't mean we can't still hate Big Government together. [Razz]

--------------------
/weepforthenation

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Relentless.
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I see a hug in the making
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SeekingFreedom
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quote:
Originally posted by Relentless.:
I see a hug in the making

 -

--------------------
/weepforthenation

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buckstalker
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quote:
Originally posted by SeekingFreedom:
quote:


Really? That's too bad. All that on the basis of my having an opinion different from yours?


No...my decision is based on the fact that you don't have a clue, you have zero sense of community, you lack common sense, and you mirror the mantra of characters like Rush and Glen...

quote:
That doesn't mean we can't still hate Big Government together. [Razz]


Now that we can do...

Although as far as the hugging thing goes...

NOT A CHANCE...at least not until hunting season is over...

--------------------
***********************

It's all in the timing...

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Lockman
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quote:
Originally posted by Pagan:
quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
Curious to know if anyone pays union dues and how that all works out. I also wonder, what people think about their union dues being used to pay for buses from California to Arizona to protest the illegal immigration. Why is big labor in the tank so much with the Obama administration over illegal immigration, when it is the illegals who are taking their own jobs away!

It doesnt make sense to me.

You actually think illegals are taking Union jobs?!?!? ROFLMAO!!

[More Crap]

I think you need to talk to some union construction workers in NYC...

--------------------
Let's Go METS!!!

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CashCowMoo
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quote:
Originally posted by Lockman:
quote:
Originally posted by Pagan:
quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
Curious to know if anyone pays union dues and how that all works out. I also wonder, what people think about their union dues being used to pay for buses from California to Arizona to protest the illegal immigration. Why is big labor in the tank so much with the Obama administration over illegal immigration, when it is the illegals who are taking their own jobs away!

It doesnt make sense to me.

You actually think illegals are taking Union jobs?!?!? ROFLMAO!!

[More Crap]

I think you need to talk to some union construction workers in NYC...
Did you all just see the video clip Fox has? They snuck up on some union workers on a lunch break getting high and drinking beer out of paper bags at a Chrysler auto plant before going back in to make cars and they ran like chickens lmao.
These guys were getting F'D up. That must be the reason behind the saying "dont buy an American car made on Mondays or Fridays.

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CashCowMoo
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these guys didnt even get fired! "suspended without pay" due to union rules.


funny how i just posted something about GM workers in Michigan coming to work drunk, and their supervisors get investigated for sending them home.

--------------------
It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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buckstalker
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CCM...you have got to be the most ignorant, brainwashed stooge I have ever encountered on this board. The tactics you use to "make your argument" are shallow at best and anyone with half a brain can see right through them...

Below is an article about drinking on the job in America...read it

http://www.theledger.com/article/20081005/NEWS/809300439?p=2&tc=pg

Note the paragraph on page 3

Among the occupations with the highest rates of workplace alcohol use cited in the university study: management, sales, arts/entertainment/sports/media, food preparation and serving and, for some odd reason, grounds maintenance.

I don't see autoworkers on that list...DO YOU?

--------------------
***********************

It's all in the timing...

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CashCowMoo
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quote:
Originally posted by buckstalker:
CCM...you have got to be the most ignorant, brainwashed stooge I have ever encountered on this board. The tactics you use to "make your argument" are shallow at best and anyone with half a brain can see right through them...

Below is an article about drinking on the job in America...read it

http://www.theledger.com/article/20081005/NEWS/809300439?p=2&tc=pg

Note the paragraph on page 3

Among the occupations with the highest rates of workplace alcohol use cited in the university study: management, sales, arts/entertainment/sports/media, food preparation and serving and, for some odd reason, grounds maintenance.

I don't see autoworkers on that list...DO YOU?

Look I am not saying I dislike autoworkers, I take pride in American things. I am just sick of the exploitation by unions of their workers, and going on strike over petty issues. Obviously there is alcholism and drug abuse among a broad range of professions. Give me a break, you think I did not know that? BTW did you see this video of the Chrysler workers? It wasnt just one day, they scoped these guys out over a long period of time. Dont get mad at me for facts.
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Pagan
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quote:
Originally posted by buckstalker:
CCM...you have got to be the most ignorant, brainwashed stooge I have ever encountered on this board. The tactics you use to "make your argument" are shallow at best and anyone with half a brain can see right through them...

Below is an article about drinking on the job in America...read it

http://www.theledger.com/article/20081005/NEWS/809300439?p=2&tc=pg

Note the paragraph on page 3

Among the occupations with the highest rates of workplace alcohol use cited in the university study: management, sales, arts/entertainment/sports/media, food preparation and serving and, for some odd reason, grounds maintenance.

I don't see autoworkers on that list...DO YOU?

Buck...you called him out perfectly. I have been calling him out the same almost daily! But telling him the actual truth is like pissing on a duck's back.

--------------------
It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.

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CashCowMoo
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quote:
Originally posted by Pagan:
quote:
Originally posted by buckstalker:
CCM...you have got to be the most ignorant, brainwashed stooge I have ever encountered on this board. The tactics you use to "make your argument" are shallow at best and anyone with half a brain can see right through them...

Below is an article about drinking on the job in America...read it

http://www.theledger.com/article/20081005/NEWS/809300439?p=2&tc=pg

Note the paragraph on page 3

Among the occupations with the highest rates of workplace alcohol use cited in the university study: management, sales, arts/entertainment/sports/media, food preparation and serving and, for some odd reason, grounds maintenance.

I don't see autoworkers on that list...DO YOU?

Buck...you called him out perfectly. I have been calling him out the same almost daily! But telling him the actual truth is like pissing on a duck's back.
typical avoidance of the stated issue. pagan, FYI you arent calling anything out either. the things you think are truths are so one sided they CANT be truths.
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CashCowMoo
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Let me guess, this is all lies and fox news conspiracy right? This has been going on forever, it just gets tight lipped. Dont the taxpayers own this company basically?


http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/chrysler-auto-workers-busted_20100923_dk


Chrysler Auto Workers Busted
Jefferson North Plant in Detroit

Updated: Thursday, 23 Sep 2010, 11:05 AM EDT
Published : Thursday, 23 Sep 2010, 7:13 AM EDT

myFOXDetroit.com Staff - We're all rooting for the auto industry to come back stronger than ever. It affects every one of us here in metro Detroit and across the country because it's so important to our economy.

Fox 2's Rob Wolchek got a tip about what some guys are doing at Chrysler's Jefferson North Assembly Plant in Detroit. This is the same plant that President Barack Obama visited back in July and talked about the significance of manufacturing in America.

The same place where the President remarked on the tax-payer generated government loan saying "I believed that if each of us were willing to work and sacrifice in the short term -- workers, management, creditors, shareholders, retirees, communities -- it could mark a new beginning for a great American industry. And if we could summon that sense of teamwork and common purpose, we could once again see the best cars in the world designed, engineered, forged, and built right here in Detroit, right here in the Midwest, right here in the United States of America."

Watch the video in the player to view what has the UAW and management at Chrysler so upset. Get the complete report from Rob Wolcheck and Huel Perkin's take on the matter. Add your comments in the module below.

Response from Chrysler; transcript from video interview with Scott Garberding, Senior Vice President - Manufacturing :

I'm very, very disturbed about what I just saw in the video and I want to make it clear that we at Chrysler take it very seriously. For us this behavior is totally unacceptable and will be dealt with swiftly. In fact, we've already identified a few of the people involved in this incident. Each of them has been suspended indefinitely, without pay, pending further investigation. We'll continue to pursue this in fact, until we're done.

What's difficult about this is these few people, who exhibited bad behavior, have painted a bad picture what's an outstanding assembly plant, filled with outstanding committed Chrysler employees at Jefferson North. I want to make it clear that we're proud of our plant, we're very proud of the people at Jefferson North.

Lastly I want to say that when we build a vehicle we go to a lot of detail to make sure that even a few people in a situation like this, in fact cannot effect the quality of the vehicle. We have detail systems in place to make sure that every operation is completed and we do multiple-redundants to ensure quality of the vehicles we make.

Response from the UAW:

The UAW strongly opposes the use of controlled substances or alcohol use on the job. This type of behavior jeopardizes the health and safety of all employees. We also recognize that, unfortunately, these behaviors exist in our society.

The UAW and the Chrysler Corporation work together to keep our workplaces drug and alcohol free, and to encourage employees with substance abuse problems to get the treatment they need. The employees involved in this situation do not represent the vast majority of workers at Chrysler who do a great job making high quality vehicles in some of the most productive manufacturing facilities in the United States.


" Each of them has been suspended indefinitely, without pay, pending further investigation."


you mean you catch your employees getting high and drunk on lunch break and you dont fire them? See, that is one of the problems of these unions. there always has to be some "investigation"

--------------------
It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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Pagan
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quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
quote:
Originally posted by Pagan:
quote:
Originally posted by buckstalker:
CCM...you have got to be the most ignorant, brainwashed stooge I have ever encountered on this board. The tactics you use to "make your argument" are shallow at best and anyone with half a brain can see right through them...

Below is an article about drinking on the job in America...read it

http://www.theledger.com/article/20081005/NEWS/809300439?p=2&tc=pg

Note the paragraph on page 3

Among the occupations with the highest rates of workplace alcohol use cited in the university study: management, sales, arts/entertainment/sports/media, food preparation and serving and, for some odd reason, grounds maintenance.

I don't see autoworkers on that list...DO YOU?

Buck...you called him out perfectly. I have been calling him out the same almost daily! But telling him the actual truth is like pissing on a duck's back.
typical avoidance of the stated issue. pagan, FYI you arent calling anything out either. the things you think are truths are so one sided they CANT be truths.
Calling out your ignorant misrepresentations of any/and all facts is paramount. You are too stupid to realize anything different. But...that is your lack of intelligence that makes your idiocy possible. Stay in your fantasy world...that's where you belong...not in the real world with the rest of us. [Good Luck]

--------------------
It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.

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Pagan
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quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
Let me guess, this is all lies and fox news conspiracy right? This has been going on forever, it just gets tight lipped. Dont the taxpayers own this company basically?


http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/chrysler-auto-workers-busted_20100923_dk


Chrysler Auto Workers Busted
Jefferson North Plant in Detroit

Updated: Thursday, 23 Sep 2010, 11:05 AM EDT
Published : Thursday, 23 Sep 2010, 7:13 AM EDT

myFOXDetroit.com Staff - We're all rooting for the auto industry to come back stronger than ever. It affects every one of us here in metro Detroit and across the country because it's so important to our economy.

Fox 2's Rob Wolchek got a tip about what some guys are doing at Chrysler's Jefferson North Assembly Plant in Detroit. This is the same plant that President Barack Obama visited back in July and talked about the significance of manufacturing in America.

The same place where the President remarked on the tax-payer generated government loan saying "I believed that if each of us were willing to work and sacrifice in the short term -- workers, management, creditors, shareholders, retirees, communities -- it could mark a new beginning for a great American industry. And if we could summon that sense of teamwork and common purpose, we could once again see the best cars in the world designed, engineered, forged, and built right here in Detroit, right here in the Midwest, right here in the United States of America."

Watch the video in the player to view what has the UAW and management at Chrysler so upset. Get the complete report from Rob Wolcheck and Huel Perkin's take on the matter. Add your comments in the module below.

Response from Chrysler; transcript from video interview with Scott Garberding, Senior Vice President - Manufacturing :

I'm very, very disturbed about what I just saw in the video and I want to make it clear that we at Chrysler take it very seriously. For us this behavior is totally unacceptable and will be dealt with swiftly. In fact, we've already identified a few of the people involved in this incident. Each of them has been suspended indefinitely, without pay, pending further investigation. We'll continue to pursue this in fact, until we're done.

What's difficult about this is these few people, who exhibited bad behavior, have painted a bad picture what's an outstanding assembly plant, filled with outstanding committed Chrysler employees at Jefferson North. I want to make it clear that we're proud of our plant, we're very proud of the people at Jefferson North.

Lastly I want to say that when we build a vehicle we go to a lot of detail to make sure that even a few people in a situation like this, in fact cannot effect the quality of the vehicle. We have detail systems in place to make sure that every operation is completed and we do multiple-redundants to ensure quality of the vehicles we make.

Response from the UAW:

The UAW strongly opposes the use of controlled substances or alcohol use on the job. This type of behavior jeopardizes the health and safety of all employees. We also recognize that, unfortunately, these behaviors exist in our society.

The UAW and the Chrysler Corporation work together to keep our workplaces drug and alcohol free, and to encourage employees with substance abuse problems to get the treatment they need. The employees involved in this situation do not represent the vast majority of workers at Chrysler who do a great job making high quality vehicles in some of the most productive manufacturing facilities in the United States.


" Each of them has been suspended indefinitely, without pay, pending further investigation."


you mean you catch your employees getting high and drunk on lunch break and you dont fire them? See, that is one of the problems of these unions. there always has to be some "investigation"

Thank GOD!!! At least we now know it's only Union members who do that! Crap....I was really worried there for a minute. LMAO...you are such an idiot...it's scary!

--------------------
It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.

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CashCowMoo
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I am not saying it is only union members. I was just relaying some disturbing news that came out today and apparently it struck a nerve with a few people as if I am the one who caused it. Way to represent the UAW though. Its sad to be honest, nobody will be perfect but your response to this news is what I expected from you pagan. You are very predictable.

--------------------
It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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Pagan
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quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
I am not saying it is only union members. I was just relaying some disturbing news that came out today and apparently it struck a nerve with a few people as if I am the one who caused it. Way to represent the UAW though. Its sad to be honest, nobody will be perfect but your response to this news is what I expected from you pagan. You are very predictable.

You mean the way I said how dumb you were? Your welcome! How about you attack the unions some more with your utter lack of knowledge...it's always a blast to read your posts! They are always entertaining!

--------------------
It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.

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jordanreed
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cow..you shouldnt play in the deep end..

--------------------
jordan

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CashCowMoo
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General Motors Co. has begun to once again contribute to political campaigns, lifting a self-imposed ban on political spending put in place during the auto maker's U.S.-financed bankruptcy restructuring last year.

The Detroit company gave $90,500 to candidates running in the current election cycle, Federal Election Commission records show.


The beneficiaries include Midwestern lawmakers, mostly Democrats, who have traditionally supported the industry's legislative agenda on Capitol Hill, including Sen. Debbie Stabenow (D., Mich.), Sen. Sherrod Brown (D., Ohio) and Rep. John Dingell (D., Mich.).


You can read the rest here:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704129204575506352139305206.html


btw, PAGAN, you know you really do not exhibit much intelligence at all.

--------------------
It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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CashCowMoo
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quote:
Originally posted by jordanreed:
cow..you shouldnt play in the deep end..

What are you talking about now

--------------------
It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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jordanreed
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quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
quote:
Originally posted by jordanreed:
cow..you shouldnt play in the deep end..

What are you talking about now
sorry..let me try it this way..

STAY OUT OF THE DEEP END OF THE POOL!!!......better? [BadOne]

--------------------
jordan

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glassman
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Obviously there is alcholism and drug abuse among a broad range of professions.

LOL.... cash, when they study drug ADDICTION? as opposed to recreational abusers? guess who comes in number by a mile? your damn doctor.

the worst part is that doctors close ranks and hide it from the public. They treat each other to get teh drugs and hten they treat each other to get "treated" for the adiction...

if you callef the AMA the Labor Union it really is? You'd be all for health care reform because it puts a huge lid on the most powerful labor union ever seen in history...

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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buckstalker
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quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
quote:
Originally posted by buckstalker:
CCM...you have got to be the most ignorant, brainwashed stooge I have ever encountered on this board. The tactics you use to "make your argument" are shallow at best and anyone with half a brain can see right through them...

Below is an article about drinking on the job in America...read it

http://www.theledger.com/article/20081005/NEWS/809300439?p=2&tc=pg

Note the paragraph on page 3

Among the occupations with the highest rates of workplace alcohol use cited in the university study: management, sales, arts/entertainment/sports/media, food preparation and serving and, for some odd reason, grounds maintenance.

I don't see autoworkers on that list...DO YOU?

Look I am not saying I dislike autoworkers, I take pride in American things. I am just sick of the exploitation by unions of their workers, and going on strike over petty issues. Obviously there is alcholism and drug abuse among a broad range of professions. Give me a break, you think I did not know that? BTW did you see this video of the Chrysler workers? It wasnt just one day, they scoped these guys out over a long period of time. Dont get mad at me for facts.
When are you going to get it through your thick azz skull that...THE WORKERS ARE THE UNION!!!!

Also...have you ever asked yourself WHY Fox news (a.k.a. GOP elitists) would spy on union workers and air the results...or better yet, WHY they do NOT spy on any of the other occupations that have a much larger problem with alcohol?

Here's a hint...they are attempting to discredit unions, but their true agenda is cheap labor...

Get your head out of the GOP's azz and get a friggin clue man...

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***********************

It's all in the timing...

Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
glassman
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they want cheap slave labor

isn't that what cash cow and SF want too? speak up if i'm wrong guys.. i hear you saying it, but maybe i'm misunderstanding?

isn't that why the country is flooded with illegals?

the GOP says they want to fix immigration issues? LOL. they are the ones hiring the labor...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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T e x
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lol, we really should charge fees...

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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buckstalker
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
they want cheap slave labor

isn't that what cash cow and SF want too? speak up if i'm wrong guys.. i hear you saying it, but maybe i'm misunderstanding?



That's what I keep hearing them say...and that is why I can confidently call them both idiots...talk about shooting yourself in the foot!

quote:
isn't that why the country is flooded with illegals?


Yep

quote:
the GOP says they want to fix immigration issues? LOL. they are the ones hiring the labor...


Bingo...we have a winner

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***********************

It's all in the timing...

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T e x
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
they want cheap slave labor

isn't that what cash cow and SF want too? speak up if i'm wrong guys.. i hear you saying it, but maybe i'm misunderstanding?

isn't that why the country is flooded with illegals?

the GOP says they want to fix immigration issues? LOL. they are the ones hiring the labor...

70 USD billion into SSA, last I checked, that the Meskins were paying in, with no hope of recovery. Maybe you guys are more up on recent figures.

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

Posts: 21062 | From: Fort Worth | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
CashCowMoo
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
they want cheap slave labor

isn't that what cash cow and SF want too? speak up if i'm wrong guys.. i hear you saying it, but maybe i'm misunderstanding?

isn't that why the country is flooded with illegals?

the GOP says they want to fix immigration issues? LOL. they are the ones hiring the labor...

We have known this for some time. That is why the Tea Party is doing good...they are beating up establishment Republicans. Guess what, they are pissed. Regardless of what any argument one has....this November is going to be brutal.

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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jordanreed
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the tea party is a joke!,,u know it. i know it ,, we all know it...just for you to bring up tea party??..speaks volumes about your charactor,,,weak, at best.

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jordan

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CashCowMoo
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A joke? Who is the bigger joke, the Tea Party, or the people they beat in an election? Gee Jordan, why so nasty?

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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jordanreed
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I'm on Methadone

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jordan

Posts: 5812 | From: st paul,mn | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
CashCowMoo
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Well, that would explain a lot of things.

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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jordanreed
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quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
A joke? Who is the bigger joke, the Tea Party, or the people they beat in an election? Gee Jordan, why so nasty?

easy answer...you have to know that

--------------------
jordan

Posts: 5812 | From: st paul,mn | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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