Curious to know if anyone pays union dues and how that all works out. I also wonder, what people think about their union dues being used to pay for buses from California to Arizona to protest the illegal immigration. Why is big labor in the tank so much with the Obama administration over illegal immigration, when it is the illegals who are taking their own jobs away!
It doesnt make sense to me.
Posted by Pagan on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Curious to know if anyone pays union dues and how that all works out. I also wonder, what people think about their union dues being used to pay for buses from California to Arizona to protest the illegal immigration. Why is big labor in the tank so much with the Obama administration over illegal immigration, when it is the illegals who are taking their own jobs away!
It doesnt make sense to me.
You actually think illegals are taking Union jobs?!?!? ROFLMAO!!
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Well, I thought unions take pride in the "American Worker" and I would have thought they would be opposed to people coming into the country illegally.
Maybe they should fix the jacked up process of becoming a citizen...I hear that isnt too pretty.
I dont know a whole lot about unions. Growing up, we always saw unions picketing or on strike demanding more money on the news from the auto plants. Why hire an American worker who has their wages set high, when you get some border jumper with a trade such as welding, pipe fitting, electric, etc for cheaper? I am not saying that is what is going on, just throwing the scenario out there.
Posted by Pagan on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Well, I thought unions take pride in the "American Worker" and I would have thought they would be opposed to people coming into the country illegally.
Maybe they should fix the jacked up process of becoming a citizen...I hear that isnt too pretty.
I dont know a whole lot about unions. Growing up, we always saw unions picketing or on strike demanding more money on the news from the auto plants. Why hire an American worker who has their wages set high, when you get some border jumper with a trade such as welding, pipe fitting, electric, etc for cheaper? I am not saying that is what is going on, just throwing the scenario out there.
Well...as you said...you know zip about Unions. As Buckstalker...he'll educate you so that you don't look so foolish. I know..I know...it's a tall order but I think Buck can handle the pressure.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Check out this union story, I think its kinda funny.
"unionized marijuana growers"
OAKLAND, Calif. -- As organized labor faces declining membership, one of the country's most storied unions is looking to a new growth industry: marijuana.
The Teamsters added nearly 40 new members earlier this month by organizing the country's first group of unionized marijuana growers. Such an arrangement is likely only possible in California, which has the nation's loosest medical marijuana laws.
But it's still unclear how the Teamsters will safeguard the rights of members who do work that's considered a federal crime.
"I didn't have this planned out when I became a Teamster 34 years ago, to organize marijuana workers," said Lou Marchetti, who acted as a liaison between the growers and Oakland-based Teamsters Local 70. "This is a whole new ballgame."
The new members work as gardeners, trimmers and cloners for Marjyn Investments LLC, an Oakland business that contracts with medical marijuana patients to grow their pot for them.
Their newly negotiated two-year contract provides them with a pension, paid vacation and health insurance. Their current wages of $18 per hour will increase to $25.75 an hour within 15 months, according to the union.
Historically, the Teamsters are no strangers to entanglements with federal law enforcement, from the infiltration of the union by organized crime to the disappearance of union leader Jimmy Hoffa. If the federal government decided to crack down on Marjyn, Marchetti said the union was still figuring out how it might intervene.
Growing marijuana outdoors is not hard - the nickname "weed" is well-earned. Indoor growing operations require more know-how and more work. But the most labor-intensive part of the process comes at harvest time, when growers rely on small armies of trimmers to clip the plant's resin-rich buds.
The work can be difficult and the hours long - and trimmers cannot count on federal labor regulations to protect them while doing work banned under federal law.
Michael Leong, assistant regional director for the Oakland office of the National Labor Relations Board, said he did not know of any case in which the federal government had been asked to mediate a dispute involving a business that was blatantly illegal under federal law.
He also said it wasn't clear if the new Teamsters would count as farmworkers, which would put them outside the NLRB's domain.
Michael Lee, general counsel for the California Agricultural Labor Relations Board, said the growers probably would qualify as agricultural workers. Any conflict between workers and the union would likely fall under his board's jurisdiction, but contract disputes between workers and management would have to be decided in state court.
Even within the state, marijuana cultivation has remained in the shadows as retail dispensaries have flourished because California's medical marijuana law provides no clear rules for growing the plant.
The Oakland City Council sought to change that dynamic in July by making the city the nation's first to authorize industrial pot cultivation. More than 260 potential applicants have expressed interest in competing later this year for four permits for large-scale growing operations, said Arturo Sanchez, an assistant to the Oakland city administrator who will ultimately issue the permits.
Union membership will not be a requirement for receiving a permit, but labor standards are one of many factors that will be considered. The union organizing effort and contract negotiations went smoothly at Marjyn, which hopes to win one of the permits.
"There was no strife between employees and management at all," said a Marjyn worker who would only identify himself as Rudy L. because he worried about his personal security if it became known that he grew marijuana for a living. He said he was not worried about getting arrested because he believed Marjyn was operating in compliance with state law, though the threat of a federal crackdown is never far from anyone's mind.
About 100 workers in Oakland's retail medical marijuana dispensaries joined the United Food and Commercial Workers in May. The Teamsters have never tried to organize dispensary workers, because retail has never been an industry in which they have been traditionally involved, Marchetti said.
The Teamsters have long vied with the United Farm Workers and other unions to represent agricultural workers. So far, no other unions have competed with the Teamsters for the membership of medical marijuana growers.
Marchetti said the union would not have gotten involved with the growers if it didn't believe the business was legitimate under state law.
"The Teamsters would never organize an illegal business," Marchetti said.
I think you might be jumping on MooMoo a little early. He has a point.
How can unions support the political ideology that also supports diluting their potency?
Posted by SeekingFreedom on :
quote:Their newly negotiated two-year contract provides them with a pension, paid vacation and health insurance. Their current wages of $18 per hour will increase to $25.75 an hour within 15 months, according to the union.
And the increase in labor costs will, of course, be taken out of profits...not passed along to the consumers...right?
Thanks again, Unions!
Posted by buckstalker on :
quote:Originally posted by SeekingFreedom:
quote:Their newly negotiated two-year contract provides them with a pension, paid vacation and health insurance. Their current wages of $18 per hour will increase to $25.75 an hour within 15 months, according to the union.
And the increase in labor costs will, of course, be taken out of profits...not passed along to the consumers...right?
Thanks again, Unions!
Couple of questions for you SF... Why in the phuck would you view the union workers as the "greedy ones" in the above scenario? All they have done is organized to get themselves and their families a LIVING WAGE and some benefits... $25.00 an hour, medical benefits, and a pension is NOT GREED...
What about the company? Why aren't you pissed off at them? They are the ones passing the costs on to you, the consumer...Why shouldn't they absorb the increase in labor costs out of their already massive profits?
Massive profits and the unwillingness to share those profits with their workers is GREED...
Posted by T e x on :
Pretty funny segment in The Daily Show about some union hiring temp scabs to protest WalMart...
That's hilarious, Tex.
Posted by SeekingFreedom on :
quote:Couple of questions for you SF...
Ok, let's do it.
quote:Why in the phuck would you view the union workers as the "greedy ones" in the above scenario?
Well, let's see...they were already making $18 an hour(over twice Cali's minimum wage)...in a state with 12%+ umemployment...
And apparently that wasn't good enough.
quote:All they have done is organized to get themselves and their families a LIVING WAGE and some benefits...
By extorting the business with threats of striking if they don't get what they want.
quote:$25.00 an hour, medical benefits, and a pension is NOT GREED...
No? That's three times minimum wage...probably another multiple added in through the medical benefits and a LIFETIME of wages long after they are no longer providing any benefit to the company...
Nope, not greedy at all.
quote:What about the company? Why aren't you pissed off at them? They are the ones passing the costs on to you, the consumer...Why shouldn't they absorb the increase in labor costs out of their already massive profits?
Ignoring the fact that I'm against pot farming on priciple...Why would I be pissed off at them? Because they are making people pay for the costs associated with providing the product\service? That's simply business, Buck. If you don't do that you don't stay in business long. Competition with drive you out of business if you can't maintain a certain profit margin.
quote:Massive profits and the unwillingness to share those profits with their workers is GREED...
Why is that greed, Buck? Did the workers invest their money to build the company? Did the workers share in the financial risk? If the company goes south do they lose their life's savings? If the company gets sued, are the workers liable for the damages?
The owner's are the ones taking the risk, Buck...they have every right to the rewards.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman:
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Its always more more more, we want more money. Screw the company that pays the wage, they dont need it.
so in other words? one persons "greed" is more important than anothers?
do you have any idea what the profits are in pot?
The profits are great or else there wouldnt be smuggling glass. When is enough, enough though? Like I said I grew up in a city where the word union meant watching a bunch of people go on strike at a auto plant. Come to find out, the wages they were being paid were not that bad at all.
Friend of mine up in Detroit who works for GM told me last year how if a line worker comes to work and is sent home for smelling like booze, that the supervisor actually gets put under investigation as well. It is a real backwards system.
We dont live in the 1920s anymore, where unions were needed for factories with hazardous conditions. I dont see too many oilfield workers unions going on strike, in fact I dont ever see oilfield workers unions at all. They get out there, bust their ass, and dont cry if work gets tough. Coal mines still need unions, and I cant think of many others.
But pot farming? You really need a union/teamsters to grow plants?
Posted by glassman on :
We dont live in the 1920s anymore, where unions were needed for factories with hazardous conditions.
so workers (OR ANYBODY) has no right to form a "group" and express their desires?
as Bob pointed out the other day? that guy in Alaska at the state fair that got arrested was doing the same thing Unions are doing when they picket...
it's their right to unionise if they want..
the US is literally a Union:
The Constitution of the United States Preamble
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
dang those Founders were something else weren't they?
Posted by glassman on :
promote the general Welfare,?
my God, they were Marxists too Posted by glassman on :
and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity,
i don't want ANYTHING secured to MY posterior thank you
Posted by glassman on :
That's three times minimum wage...
LOL.. have ever even tried to rent an apt in CA? at min. wage? you cannot even afford a roof. forget food... sheeessh might as well live in cardboard box and collect cans you'd be better off.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: We dont live in the 1920s anymore, where unions were needed for factories with hazardous conditions.
so workers (OR ANYBODY) has no right to form a "group" and express their desires?
as Bob pointed out the other day? that guy in Alaska at the state fair that got arrested was doing the same thing Unions are doing when they picket...
it's their right to unionise if they want..
the US is literally a Union:
The Constitution of the United States Preamble
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
dang those Founders were something else weren't they?
Glass, comparing the union terminology in the constitution to modern day labor unions?
Posted by glassman on :
Glass, comparing the union terminology in the constitution to modern day labor unions?
The United States is a Union. Some might wish their State had more autonomy than they do now, but i garantee you that other states would gobble them up quick if we dissolved the Union.
Taxes are the same as dues, so yes, i am comparing them direclty.
Tell me why were the Westerns Sates so all fired up to join the Union?
You think maybe they were looking for some pork?
wanna tell me why some people don't have the right to form a Union, but others do? Look it up, we have the explicit Constitutional right to form Unions, and the Supreme Court even said that Unions have the right to spend as much as they want on political campaigns, just like corporations do. BTW? a Corporation is ALSO a group of people that have formed up. I don't agree that Unions or Corps have the right to spend all they want on politics since they are not voters per se, but SCOTUS says i am wrong...
just because you don't "like" them? don't mean jack, they aren't useles tot eh people in 'em or htey wouldn't make 'em, and it is thier right to do so.
Posted by glassman on :
to be honest cash? i am not a Union person, was in the IBEW for a while when i go out of the Navy, and didn't care for it... here's the "thing" tho, i'm just not an Employee or an Employer. I work on my own an di like it that way, but unions are no more or less "evil" then the Corporate stuffed shirts... they are in a competition with each other an' Competition is GOOD!
Posted by glassman on :
here's a differnt look at Unions:
The effects of China’s growing labor unions on your company By Ames Gross
China's recently revised Labor Contract law, requiring contracts for all workers, took effect on January 1, 2008. Paired with the unionization effort, some foreign firms have reported increased labor costs of 20% to 40%.
Worker unionization has dramatically increased in China since the beginning of 2007. Chinese domestic companies and foreign-invested companies operating in China are both feeling the effects, but in different ways.
Some Chinese firms turn to union mediators to help deal with a growing number of worker strikes, while many foreign-invested companies are being pressed by the Chinese government to open their doors to government unions.
Throughout 2008, as Chinese firms and union officials have begun to take innovative approaches to handle worker unrest, foreign companies now wonder if they will have to follow in lockstep.
Unionization status
A few years ago, the state-sponsored All-China Federation of Trade Unions (ACFTU), the umbrella union for the entire country of China, called for all foreign-invested companies in China to recognize its unions by the end of 2008, claiming it would ‘blacklist' and take legal action against any foreign firms refusing to allow unionization.
As of the beginning of 2009, according to official reports, 313 labor unions have been set up in 83% of multinational corporations' China headquarters. The future of those companies that have not yet complied remains uncertain.
Historically, because government officials and corporate managers had a common interest in keeping production levels high, there was little official support for dissatisfied workers. China's state-owned companies had unions under ACFTU, which as a government-affiliated body...is more interested in enforcing worker discipline.
Well, let's see...they were already making $18 an hour(over twice Cali's minimum wage)...in a state with 12%+ umemployment...
And apparently that wasn't good enough.
Correct...in a state with an extremely high cost of living like Cali, that apparently WASN'T enough...
Posted by SeekingFreedom on :
Again, Buck, I don't think you and I are ever going to see eye to eye on this issue. You see it as 'good for the worker' which, in the short term, it surely is. I see it as 'bad for the consumer', which it surely is.
With all due respect, and I mean that, I don't think anyone who feels they 'earned' their pension is going to bad mouth the system that provided it. That's the trap of entitlements. One knows who butters their bread.
Posted by buckstalker on :
quote:Originally posted by SeekingFreedom:
By extorting the business with threats of striking if they don't get what they want.
Extortion??? LMAO...It's called bargaining SF NOT extortion... Furthermore...if you are going to accuse a group of people that have organized to better their standard of living extortionists...then aren't the employers also extortionists? In a non-union shop, employees are constantly threatened with the loss of their job if they don't accept poverty scale wages or unsafe working conditions...by your definition, isn't that also considered extortion?
Both sides are trying to get what is best for themselves and in a union setting, they do that through BARGAINING...NOT EXTORTION
quote:$25.00 an hour, medical benefits, and a pension is NOT GREED...That's three times minimum wage...probably another multiple added in through the medical benefits and a LIFETIME of wages long after they are no longer providing any benefit to the company...Nope, not greedy at all.
No...$25.00 an hour, medical benefits, and a pension is NOT greedy...it is a "living wage package" and by no means will those employees ever have enough money to be considered GREEDY...
quote:Because they are making people pay for the costs associated with providing the product\service? That's simply business, Buck. If you don't do that you don't stay in business long. Competition with drive you out of business if you can't maintain a certain profit margin.
True enough...but paying your employees a "living wage" is part of the cost of doing business...Attempting to "compete" with the Chinese labor force will be our demise...NOT the unions...
quote:Did the workers share in the financial risk? If the company goes south do they lose their life's savings?
Sure they do...Most employees won't have any "life's savings" working for those wages and living in Cali...and, the vast majority will live paycheck to paycheck...so if the company goes south, they will lose it all...
quote:If the company gets sued, are the workers liable for the damages?
Again...if the company gets sued and goes under....so do the employees...
quote:The owner's are the ones taking the risk, Buck...they have every right to the rewards.
Don't tell me about risk...I risked my life every day for 30 years working in an auto factory. I saw many people over the years get seriously injured and killed...and I also have every right to bargain for my fair share of the rewards...
I can tell by your answers that you are young, have NEVER belonged to a union, and have never been an employer...
You seem like a fairly intelligent young man SF, but you really need to develop a "sense of community"
Posted by buckstalker on :
quote:Originally posted by SeekingFreedom: Again, Buck, I don't think you and I are ever going to see eye to eye on this issue. You see it as 'good for the worker' which, in the short term, it surely is. I see it as 'bad for the consumer', which it surely is.
With all due respect, and I mean that, I don't think anyone who feels they 'earned' their pension is going to bad mouth the system that provided it. That's the trap of entitlements. One knows who butters their bread.
SF...The "worker" IS the "consumer"...
As far as my pension goes...that was negotiated as part of my WAGE agreement...it is not an entitlement and who in the phuck are you to utter such nonsense...
Maybe I was wrong about your intelligence...
Posted by T e x on :
quote:Originally posted by buckstalker:
quote:Originally posted by SeekingFreedom:
Well, let's see...they were already making $18 an hour(over twice Cali's minimum wage)...in a state with 12%+ umemployment...
And apparently that wasn't good enough.
Correct...in a state with an extremely high cost of living like Cali, that apparently WASN'T enough...
Ya know, I've really changed my mind through this give and take some of us have here. Maybe not a 180, but being from Texas, in my little niche? ...it's quite a concession to say a union might have a point.
Now, I still think it's funny what I posted earlier, that link to the scabs protesting WalMart.
But, I can really see the need for employees of large, super-wide-out, no-holds-barred corporations. Those employees need to be able to match up with teams of lawyered-up C-suites, cuz you know they're gonna shave every rounded-off corner you can think of--and a bunch that a regular working stiff would never think of...
Here's where I fall short of a 180: say I've got a small shop, electrical, carpentry, publishing, trading, whatever. Let's say 5 employees are needed all year, maybe 12 in peak season. Through time, I work it out so that the 5 and 7 come and go accordingly--sometimes even switching places--and everybody's more or less happy with the arrangement.
But then one year, a union organizer shows up. Now my quick, nimble team could easily turn into a nightmare that I can't handle. See my point? When we have a problem with our bosses, we either work it out, punch it out, or gather our tools and drag up. The motto in the neighborhood I'm from is "I was looking for a job when I found this one."
Put it this way: I've seldom been screwed working with or for peeps I grew up with...or people who share similar values. I can't say that about the major corporations I've worked for; in those cases, looking back on it, a union rep would've been a great resource.
Posted by buckstalker on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
Friend of mine up in Detroit who works for GM told me last year how if a line worker comes to work and is sent home for smelling like booze, that the supervisor actually gets put under investigation as well.
Your friend is a liar...
quote:We dont live in the 1920s anymore, where unions were needed for factories with hazardous conditions.
More lies...
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
unions werent needed in the 1920s to ensure safe conditions for workers?
Posted by T e x on :
disingenuous
Posted by glassman on :
I see it as 'bad for the consumer', which it surely is.
wow! now you are a consumer advocate? LOL...
don't be a consumer, we already agreed on that (right?)...
consumers are just the economic sponge we use to soak up the Capital and then wring out right?
Abraham Lincoln said this, and he was correct:
Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. Abraham Lincoln
what he's saying is risk be damned SF, Capital is not created by risk taking. Capital is made by work. Risk taking is gambling.
Posted by SeekingFreedom on :
We've asked this before, Buck, but I'll try again. What the heck? I might get lucky...
What IS a living wage in your opinion? What constitutes a fair wage? Not in terms of dollars and cents, but in terms of what it can afford in a generic working area.
quote:Both sides are trying to get what is best for themselves and in a union setting, they do that through BARGAINING...NOT EXTORTION
Bargaining, Buck, it give and take. I offer you X for you giving me Y. Threatening to shut down your business (through striking you entire workforce) is not bargaining. That's extortion imo. Sorry we can't agree on it.
quote:I can tell by your answers that you are young, have NEVER belonged to a union, and have never been an employer...
You seem like a fairly intelligent young man SF, but you really need to develop a "sense of community"
No, I've never been part of a Union, though my brother is. I've never been an employer but I have had to lead\manage medium sized groups of people. The regular laws I have to sift through to do so is by far enough for me. To have to deal with Union rules on top of that would be insane to me.
quote:As far as my pension goes...that was negotiated as part of my WAGE agreement...it is not an entitlement and who in the phuck are you to utter such nonsense...
Who am I? I'm the guy that has to pay more for American made items because of Union contracts, Buck. That's who I am.
And your wage agreement? You think it ok to 'bargain' for a GUARANTEED income long after you no longer contribute to the company? What's the average life expectancy for you, Buck? mid 80's? If you retired at, what, 49, that means you're drawning a full pension for over 30 years! Longer than you were at the job in most cases. That wouldn't be AS bad if you weren't ALSO drawing a higher salary than non-union while you were there in the first place.
And ALL of that cost gets put back on me and everyone else that buys your product.
quote:SF...The "worker" IS the "consumer"...
Which is my point! By forcing the business to pay more in wages, you are increasing your own expenses. By expanding Unions, you will increase the price YOU pay for everything they touch.
quote:Maybe I was wrong about your intelligence...
That's up to you to decide. Posted by glassman on :
To have to deal with Union rules on top of that would be insane to me.
LOL.. there you go. the Unions are self-regulatory. Just like corporations? there are good people and bad people in them, some are very well run and others are crooks. They SHOULD make your management daily activities easier if they are well run.
that doesn't make Unions bad.
as to extortion? the people not working while on strike might get some pay from other mebers of th eunion or from the the dues they paid in, but guess what? they are out of work when they go on strike, so it's not extortion.
here is the legal definition of extortion:
The obtaining of property from another induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, or fear, or under color of official right.
wrongful being the key word. sure, there are violent strikes and violent strike breakers, but both are illegal..The First Amendment prohibits government from abridging "the right of the people peaceably to assemble."
Posted by glassman on :
Which is my point! By forcing the business to pay more in wages, you are increasing your own expenses. By expanding Unions, you will increase the price YOU pay for everything they touch.
you cannot force the business to charge more than their product is actually worth, Unions know this..
tha'st what labor negotiations are all about, it's called price discovery and is in fact one of the most important elements of FreeTrade principles..
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by SeekingFreedom: We've asked this before, Buck, but I'll try again. What the heck? I might get lucky...
What IS a living wage in your opinion? What constitutes a fair wage? Not in terms of dollars and cents, but in terms of what it can afford in a generic working area.
i answered this before very plainly. there's noway to define a living wage in generic terms.
here in MS? I can afford the same home i owned in VA for 150,000. The home in RURAL Southern VA? 700,000. In norhtern VA? 5 million. That's todays prices BTW.
Now i can do this because here in MS? We are poor. Look it up, we are last in all the "good categories and first in all the "bad" categories.
Businesses do not want to move here because the education is so bad that mid-level management and up must have extra pay to allow the kids to go to private schools, and let me tell you they send them to boarding schools out of state, not local private schools... many people do not want to send thier kids to boarding school (like me )
Posted by glassman on :
here, play with this RE listing site, adj your parameters to see what the cheapest 2 BR 2 BA home isin the Bay Area CA, i think you'll get sick.
quote:Originally posted by SeekingFreedom: We've asked this before, Buck, but I'll try again. What the heck? I might get lucky...
What IS a living wage in your opinion? What constitutes a fair wage? Not in terms of dollars and cents, but in terms of what it can afford in a generic working area.
quote:Both sides are trying to get what is best for themselves and in a union setting, they do that through BARGAINING...NOT EXTORTION
Bargaining, Buck, it give and take. I offer you X for you giving me Y. Threatening to shut down your business (through striking you entire workforce) is not bargaining. That's extortion imo. Sorry we can't agree on it.
quote:I can tell by your answers that you are young, have NEVER belonged to a union, and have never been an employer...
You seem like a fairly intelligent young man SF, but you really need to develop a "sense of community"
No, I've never been part of a Union, though my brother is. I've never been an employer but I have had to lead\manage medium sized groups of people. The regular laws I have to sift through to do so is by far enough for me. To have to deal with Union rules on top of that would be insane to me.
quote:As far as my pension goes...that was negotiated as part of my WAGE agreement...it is not an entitlement and who in the phuck are you to utter such nonsense...
Who am I? I'm the guy that has to pay more for American made items because of Union contracts, Buck. That's who I am.
And your wage agreement? You think it ok to 'bargain' for a GUARANTEED income long after you no longer contribute to the company? What's the average life expectancy for you, Buck? mid 80's? If you retired at, what, 49, that means you're drawning a full pension for over 30 years! Longer than you were at the job in most cases. That wouldn't be AS bad if you weren't ALSO drawing a higher salary than non-union while you were there in the first place.
And ALL of that cost gets put back on me and everyone else that buys your product.
quote:SF...The "worker" IS the "consumer"...
Which is my point! By forcing the business to pay more in wages, you are increasing your own expenses. By expanding Unions, you will increase the price YOU pay for everything they touch.
quote:Maybe I was wrong about your intelligence...
That's up to you to decide.
OK, I've decided...you don't have a clue, you have zero sense of community, you lack common sense, and you mirror the mantra of characters like Rush and Glen...
BTW...I guarantee you that if it were not for unions, YOUR paycheck would be MUCH smaller and YOUR working conditions would be MUCH worse...
One more thing that might be of interest to you...I am for the most part a conservative...
Posted by glassman on :
sometimes i wonder why anybody would listen to someone making 100 million $ to sit on their fat ass and talk stupid about other people.
it's hilarious that anybody would complain about Union people who actually do real work while they repeat the absurdities of the guy that's really ripping them off.
SF, you do realise that advertising costs and other overhead are in your "cost" too?
Rush limbugger and Glen Beck? What exaclty do they produce beyond mindnumbing drivel and hot air?
i am pissed off that my Electric company Entergy is running several adds every day during the local news shows telling me how they work so hard to cut my electricity cost. I pay for those G-damn adds, and i cannot shop for my Alternating Current, and i cannot hook solar to my grid either cuz they will not allow me.
Drug Co's tell us they need to charge so much for their new drugs due to high research costs?
go look at their filings statements. All of 'em spend several times what they spend in R&D (which is labor) on ADVERTISING, to patients who cannot even write prescriptions... and how much did Bush GIVE the drug co's in the way of our tax dollars thru medicare/medicaid?
SF, your complaints about working people getting paid too much are absurd.
Posted by SeekingFreedom on :
quote:OK, I've decided...you don't have a clue, you have zero sense of community, you lack common sense, and you mirror the mantra of characters like Rush and Glen...
Really? That's too bad. All that on the basis of my having an opinion different from yours?
quote:One more thing that might be of interest to you...I am for the most part a conservative...
Which is why I hate when this subject gets brought up. You and I don't differ, significantly, on most issues. This just happens to be one that you have a very strong opinion that is diametrically opposed to mine. (shrug)
That doesn't mean we can't still hate Big Government together. Posted by Relentless. on :
I see a hug in the making
Posted by SeekingFreedom on :
quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: I see a hug in the making
Posted by buckstalker on :
quote:Originally posted by SeekingFreedom:
quote:
Really? That's too bad. All that on the basis of my having an opinion different from yours?
No...my decision is based on the fact that you don't have a clue, you have zero sense of community, you lack common sense, and you mirror the mantra of characters like Rush and Glen...
quote:That doesn't mean we can't still hate Big Government together.
Now that we can do...
Although as far as the hugging thing goes...
NOT A CHANCE...at least not until hunting season is over...
Posted by Lockman on :
quote:Originally posted by Pagan:
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Curious to know if anyone pays union dues and how that all works out. I also wonder, what people think about their union dues being used to pay for buses from California to Arizona to protest the illegal immigration. Why is big labor in the tank so much with the Obama administration over illegal immigration, when it is the illegals who are taking their own jobs away!
It doesnt make sense to me.
You actually think illegals are taking Union jobs?!?!? ROFLMAO!!
I think you need to talk to some union construction workers in NYC...
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by Lockman:
quote:Originally posted by Pagan:
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Curious to know if anyone pays union dues and how that all works out. I also wonder, what people think about their union dues being used to pay for buses from California to Arizona to protest the illegal immigration. Why is big labor in the tank so much with the Obama administration over illegal immigration, when it is the illegals who are taking their own jobs away!
It doesnt make sense to me.
You actually think illegals are taking Union jobs?!?!? ROFLMAO!!
I think you need to talk to some union construction workers in NYC...
Did you all just see the video clip Fox has? They snuck up on some union workers on a lunch break getting high and drinking beer out of paper bags at a Chrysler auto plant before going back in to make cars and they ran like chickens lmao. These guys were getting F'D up. That must be the reason behind the saying "dont buy an American car made on Mondays or Fridays.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
these guys didnt even get fired! "suspended without pay" due to union rules.
funny how i just posted something about GM workers in Michigan coming to work drunk, and their supervisors get investigated for sending them home.
Posted by buckstalker on :
CCM...you have got to be the most ignorant, brainwashed stooge I have ever encountered on this board. The tactics you use to "make your argument" are shallow at best and anyone with half a brain can see right through them...
Below is an article about drinking on the job in America...read it
Among the occupations with the highest rates of workplace alcohol use cited in the university study: management, sales, arts/entertainment/sports/media, food preparation and serving and, for some odd reason, grounds maintenance.
I don't see autoworkers on that list...DO YOU?
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by buckstalker: CCM...you have got to be the most ignorant, brainwashed stooge I have ever encountered on this board. The tactics you use to "make your argument" are shallow at best and anyone with half a brain can see right through them...
Below is an article about drinking on the job in America...read it
Among the occupations with the highest rates of workplace alcohol use cited in the university study: management, sales, arts/entertainment/sports/media, food preparation and serving and, for some odd reason, grounds maintenance.
I don't see autoworkers on that list...DO YOU?
Look I am not saying I dislike autoworkers, I take pride in American things. I am just sick of the exploitation by unions of their workers, and going on strike over petty issues. Obviously there is alcholism and drug abuse among a broad range of professions. Give me a break, you think I did not know that? BTW did you see this video of the Chrysler workers? It wasnt just one day, they scoped these guys out over a long period of time. Dont get mad at me for facts.
Posted by Pagan on :
quote:Originally posted by buckstalker: CCM...you have got to be the most ignorant, brainwashed stooge I have ever encountered on this board. The tactics you use to "make your argument" are shallow at best and anyone with half a brain can see right through them...
Below is an article about drinking on the job in America...read it
Among the occupations with the highest rates of workplace alcohol use cited in the university study: management, sales, arts/entertainment/sports/media, food preparation and serving and, for some odd reason, grounds maintenance.
I don't see autoworkers on that list...DO YOU?
Buck...you called him out perfectly. I have been calling him out the same almost daily! But telling him the actual truth is like pissing on a duck's back.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by Pagan:
quote:Originally posted by buckstalker: CCM...you have got to be the most ignorant, brainwashed stooge I have ever encountered on this board. The tactics you use to "make your argument" are shallow at best and anyone with half a brain can see right through them...
Below is an article about drinking on the job in America...read it
Among the occupations with the highest rates of workplace alcohol use cited in the university study: management, sales, arts/entertainment/sports/media, food preparation and serving and, for some odd reason, grounds maintenance.
I don't see autoworkers on that list...DO YOU?
Buck...you called him out perfectly. I have been calling him out the same almost daily! But telling him the actual truth is like pissing on a duck's back.
typical avoidance of the stated issue. pagan, FYI you arent calling anything out either. the things you think are truths are so one sided they CANT be truths.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Let me guess, this is all lies and fox news conspiracy right? This has been going on forever, it just gets tight lipped. Dont the taxpayers own this company basically?
Chrysler Auto Workers Busted Jefferson North Plant in Detroit
Updated: Thursday, 23 Sep 2010, 11:05 AM EDT Published : Thursday, 23 Sep 2010, 7:13 AM EDT
myFOXDetroit.com Staff - We're all rooting for the auto industry to come back stronger than ever. It affects every one of us here in metro Detroit and across the country because it's so important to our economy.
Fox 2's Rob Wolchek got a tip about what some guys are doing at Chrysler's Jefferson North Assembly Plant in Detroit. This is the same plant that President Barack Obama visited back in July and talked about the significance of manufacturing in America.
The same place where the President remarked on the tax-payer generated government loan saying "I believed that if each of us were willing to work and sacrifice in the short term -- workers, management, creditors, shareholders, retirees, communities -- it could mark a new beginning for a great American industry. And if we could summon that sense of teamwork and common purpose, we could once again see the best cars in the world designed, engineered, forged, and built right here in Detroit, right here in the Midwest, right here in the United States of America."
Watch the video in the player to view what has the UAW and management at Chrysler so upset. Get the complete report from Rob Wolcheck and Huel Perkin's take on the matter. Add your comments in the module below.
Response from Chrysler; transcript from video interview with Scott Garberding, Senior Vice President - Manufacturing :
I'm very, very disturbed about what I just saw in the video and I want to make it clear that we at Chrysler take it very seriously. For us this behavior is totally unacceptable and will be dealt with swiftly. In fact, we've already identified a few of the people involved in this incident. Each of them has been suspended indefinitely, without pay, pending further investigation. We'll continue to pursue this in fact, until we're done.
What's difficult about this is these few people, who exhibited bad behavior, have painted a bad picture what's an outstanding assembly plant, filled with outstanding committed Chrysler employees at Jefferson North. I want to make it clear that we're proud of our plant, we're very proud of the people at Jefferson North.
Lastly I want to say that when we build a vehicle we go to a lot of detail to make sure that even a few people in a situation like this, in fact cannot effect the quality of the vehicle. We have detail systems in place to make sure that every operation is completed and we do multiple-redundants to ensure quality of the vehicles we make.
Response from the UAW:
The UAW strongly opposes the use of controlled substances or alcohol use on the job. This type of behavior jeopardizes the health and safety of all employees. We also recognize that, unfortunately, these behaviors exist in our society.
The UAW and the Chrysler Corporation work together to keep our workplaces drug and alcohol free, and to encourage employees with substance abuse problems to get the treatment they need. The employees involved in this situation do not represent the vast majority of workers at Chrysler who do a great job making high quality vehicles in some of the most productive manufacturing facilities in the United States.
" Each of them has been suspended indefinitely, without pay, pending further investigation."
you mean you catch your employees getting high and drunk on lunch break and you dont fire them? See, that is one of the problems of these unions. there always has to be some "investigation"
Posted by Pagan on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
quote:Originally posted by Pagan:
quote:Originally posted by buckstalker: CCM...you have got to be the most ignorant, brainwashed stooge I have ever encountered on this board. The tactics you use to "make your argument" are shallow at best and anyone with half a brain can see right through them...
Below is an article about drinking on the job in America...read it
Among the occupations with the highest rates of workplace alcohol use cited in the university study: management, sales, arts/entertainment/sports/media, food preparation and serving and, for some odd reason, grounds maintenance.
I don't see autoworkers on that list...DO YOU?
Buck...you called him out perfectly. I have been calling him out the same almost daily! But telling him the actual truth is like pissing on a duck's back.
typical avoidance of the stated issue. pagan, FYI you arent calling anything out either. the things you think are truths are so one sided they CANT be truths.
Calling out your ignorant misrepresentations of any/and all facts is paramount. You are too stupid to realize anything different. But...that is your lack of intelligence that makes your idiocy possible. Stay in your fantasy world...that's where you belong...not in the real world with the rest of us. Posted by Pagan on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Let me guess, this is all lies and fox news conspiracy right? This has been going on forever, it just gets tight lipped. Dont the taxpayers own this company basically?
Chrysler Auto Workers Busted Jefferson North Plant in Detroit
Updated: Thursday, 23 Sep 2010, 11:05 AM EDT Published : Thursday, 23 Sep 2010, 7:13 AM EDT
myFOXDetroit.com Staff - We're all rooting for the auto industry to come back stronger than ever. It affects every one of us here in metro Detroit and across the country because it's so important to our economy.
Fox 2's Rob Wolchek got a tip about what some guys are doing at Chrysler's Jefferson North Assembly Plant in Detroit. This is the same plant that President Barack Obama visited back in July and talked about the significance of manufacturing in America.
The same place where the President remarked on the tax-payer generated government loan saying "I believed that if each of us were willing to work and sacrifice in the short term -- workers, management, creditors, shareholders, retirees, communities -- it could mark a new beginning for a great American industry. And if we could summon that sense of teamwork and common purpose, we could once again see the best cars in the world designed, engineered, forged, and built right here in Detroit, right here in the Midwest, right here in the United States of America."
Watch the video in the player to view what has the UAW and management at Chrysler so upset. Get the complete report from Rob Wolcheck and Huel Perkin's take on the matter. Add your comments in the module below.
Response from Chrysler; transcript from video interview with Scott Garberding, Senior Vice President - Manufacturing :
I'm very, very disturbed about what I just saw in the video and I want to make it clear that we at Chrysler take it very seriously. For us this behavior is totally unacceptable and will be dealt with swiftly. In fact, we've already identified a few of the people involved in this incident. Each of them has been suspended indefinitely, without pay, pending further investigation. We'll continue to pursue this in fact, until we're done.
What's difficult about this is these few people, who exhibited bad behavior, have painted a bad picture what's an outstanding assembly plant, filled with outstanding committed Chrysler employees at Jefferson North. I want to make it clear that we're proud of our plant, we're very proud of the people at Jefferson North.
Lastly I want to say that when we build a vehicle we go to a lot of detail to make sure that even a few people in a situation like this, in fact cannot effect the quality of the vehicle. We have detail systems in place to make sure that every operation is completed and we do multiple-redundants to ensure quality of the vehicles we make.
Response from the UAW:
The UAW strongly opposes the use of controlled substances or alcohol use on the job. This type of behavior jeopardizes the health and safety of all employees. We also recognize that, unfortunately, these behaviors exist in our society.
The UAW and the Chrysler Corporation work together to keep our workplaces drug and alcohol free, and to encourage employees with substance abuse problems to get the treatment they need. The employees involved in this situation do not represent the vast majority of workers at Chrysler who do a great job making high quality vehicles in some of the most productive manufacturing facilities in the United States.
" Each of them has been suspended indefinitely, without pay, pending further investigation."
you mean you catch your employees getting high and drunk on lunch break and you dont fire them? See, that is one of the problems of these unions. there always has to be some "investigation"
Thank GOD!!! At least we now know it's only Union members who do that! Crap....I was really worried there for a minute. LMAO...you are such an idiot...it's scary!
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
I am not saying it is only union members. I was just relaying some disturbing news that came out today and apparently it struck a nerve with a few people as if I am the one who caused it. Way to represent the UAW though. Its sad to be honest, nobody will be perfect but your response to this news is what I expected from you pagan. You are very predictable.
Posted by Pagan on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: I am not saying it is only union members. I was just relaying some disturbing news that came out today and apparently it struck a nerve with a few people as if I am the one who caused it. Way to represent the UAW though. Its sad to be honest, nobody will be perfect but your response to this news is what I expected from you pagan. You are very predictable.
You mean the way I said how dumb you were? Your welcome! How about you attack the unions some more with your utter lack of knowledge...it's always a blast to read your posts! They are always entertaining!
Posted by jordanreed on :
cow..you shouldnt play in the deep end..
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
General Motors Co. has begun to once again contribute to political campaigns, lifting a self-imposed ban on political spending put in place during the auto maker's U.S.-financed bankruptcy restructuring last year.
The Detroit company gave $90,500 to candidates running in the current election cycle, Federal Election Commission records show.
The beneficiaries include Midwestern lawmakers, mostly Democrats, who have traditionally supported the industry's legislative agenda on Capitol Hill, including Sen. Debbie Stabenow (D., Mich.), Sen. Sherrod Brown (D., Ohio) and Rep. John Dingell (D., Mich.).
btw, PAGAN, you know you really do not exhibit much intelligence at all.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: cow..you shouldnt play in the deep end..
What are you talking about now
Posted by jordanreed on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: cow..you shouldnt play in the deep end..
What are you talking about now
sorry..let me try it this way..
STAY OUT OF THE DEEP END OF THE POOL!!!......better? Posted by glassman on :
Obviously there is alcholism and drug abuse among a broad range of professions.
LOL.... cash, when they study drug ADDICTION? as opposed to recreational abusers? guess who comes in number by a mile? your damn doctor.
the worst part is that doctors close ranks and hide it from the public. They treat each other to get teh drugs and hten they treat each other to get "treated" for the adiction...
if you callef the AMA the Labor Union it really is? You'd be all for health care reform because it puts a huge lid on the most powerful labor union ever seen in history...
Posted by buckstalker on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
quote:Originally posted by buckstalker: CCM...you have got to be the most ignorant, brainwashed stooge I have ever encountered on this board. The tactics you use to "make your argument" are shallow at best and anyone with half a brain can see right through them...
Below is an article about drinking on the job in America...read it
Among the occupations with the highest rates of workplace alcohol use cited in the university study: management, sales, arts/entertainment/sports/media, food preparation and serving and, for some odd reason, grounds maintenance.
I don't see autoworkers on that list...DO YOU?
Look I am not saying I dislike autoworkers, I take pride in American things. I am just sick of the exploitation by unions of their workers, and going on strike over petty issues. Obviously there is alcholism and drug abuse among a broad range of professions. Give me a break, you think I did not know that? BTW did you see this video of the Chrysler workers? It wasnt just one day, they scoped these guys out over a long period of time. Dont get mad at me for facts.
When are you going to get it through your thick azz skull that...THE WORKERS ARE THE UNION!!!!
Also...have you ever asked yourself WHY Fox news (a.k.a. GOP elitists) would spy on union workers and air the results...or better yet, WHY they do NOT spy on any of the other occupations that have a much larger problem with alcohol?
Here's a hint...they are attempting to discredit unions, but their true agenda is cheap labor...
Get your head out of the GOP's azz and get a friggin clue man...
Posted by glassman on :
they want cheap slave labor
isn't that what cash cow and SF want too? speak up if i'm wrong guys.. i hear you saying it, but maybe i'm misunderstanding?
isn't that why the country is flooded with illegals?
the GOP says they want to fix immigration issues? LOL. they are the ones hiring the labor...
Posted by T e x on :
lol, we really should charge fees...
Posted by buckstalker on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: they want cheap slave labor
isn't that what cash cow and SF want too? speak up if i'm wrong guys.. i hear you saying it, but maybe i'm misunderstanding?
That's what I keep hearing them say...and that is why I can confidently call them both idiots...talk about shooting yourself in the foot!
quote:isn't that why the country is flooded with illegals?
Yep
quote:the GOP says they want to fix immigration issues? LOL. they are the ones hiring the labor...
Bingo...we have a winner
Posted by T e x on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: they want cheap slave labor
isn't that what cash cow and SF want too? speak up if i'm wrong guys.. i hear you saying it, but maybe i'm misunderstanding?
isn't that why the country is flooded with illegals?
the GOP says they want to fix immigration issues? LOL. they are the ones hiring the labor...
70 USD billion into SSA, last I checked, that the Meskins were paying in, with no hope of recovery. Maybe you guys are more up on recent figures.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: they want cheap slave labor
isn't that what cash cow and SF want too? speak up if i'm wrong guys.. i hear you saying it, but maybe i'm misunderstanding?
isn't that why the country is flooded with illegals?
the GOP says they want to fix immigration issues? LOL. they are the ones hiring the labor...
We have known this for some time. That is why the Tea Party is doing good...they are beating up establishment Republicans. Guess what, they are pissed. Regardless of what any argument one has....this November is going to be brutal.
Posted by jordanreed on :
the tea party is a joke!,,u know it. i know it ,, we all know it...just for you to bring up tea party??..speaks volumes about your charactor,,,weak, at best.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
A joke? Who is the bigger joke, the Tea Party, or the people they beat in an election? Gee Jordan, why so nasty?
Posted by jordanreed on :
I'm on Methadone
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Well, that would explain a lot of things.
Posted by jordanreed on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: A joke? Who is the bigger joke, the Tea Party, or the people they beat in an election? Gee Jordan, why so nasty?
easy answer...you have to know that
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
So, will you be here on November 3rd? I would like to say hello that day.
Posted by jordanreed on :
jokes win alot of stuff...look at jessie
Posted by jordanreed on :
whats nov 3rd?
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Oh wow look at that, the Democrats do not want to have a vote on the tax cut issue until after the election. LMAO
Man, they are getting desperate. They arent even putting the donkey on their front yard signs. Cmon libs, run on that health care with understimated costs, get that underclass vote you need to stay elected, and make sure people know that more taxes mean a better country.
Posted by jordanreed on :
oh //elections!...lol...i lauggh...so what? ,..I have my beliefs...that all that matters to me..my beliefs are correct..and im always learning..and open to sane , logical, rational thinking.....d
Posted by Ric on :
quote:Originally posted by buckstalker:
quote:Originally posted by SeekingFreedom:
quote:Their newly negotiated two-year contract provides them with a pension, paid vacation and health insurance. Their current wages of $18 per hour will increase to $25.75 an hour within 15 months, according to the union.
And the increase in labor costs will, of course, be taken out of profits...not passed along to the consumers...right?
Thanks again, Unions!
Couple of questions for you SF... Why in the phuck would you view the union workers as the "greedy ones" in the above scenario? All they have done is organized to get themselves and their families a LIVING WAGE and some benefits... $25.00 an hour, medical benefits, and a pension is NOT GREED...
What about the company? Why aren't you pissed off at them? They are the ones passing the costs on to you, the consumer...Why shouldn't they absorb the increase in labor costs out of their already massive profits?
Massive profits and the unwillingness to share those profits with their workers is GREED...
I don't think it is greed to try and get the best you can for your family but we as americans are flawed in the fact we want all these benefits and the best wages for the products we produce, we turn around and go to Wal-mart and buy the cheapest goods we can buy. It is hard to pay $25.00 and hours and all the benefits if you can't sell the product you make because of cost.
The biggest downfall in the auto industry a few years back was because that American car manufactures have such a huge cost built in to making a car. Not only from the high salaries and benefits but the retirement benefits. And in the end we go out and buy a Toyota
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
I just wish there was a bettery luxury line for US. I like the Lincoln MKS, and although Cadillac is nice it just doesnt look and drive as smooth as a Lexus IS/GS line, or a BMW 5 series.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
WOW you should see this coverage they have of the Chrysler employees hitting up the liquor store on lunch drinking and driving and getting stoned!
The executive said it well though, this was a small group and does not represent the whole company, and I agree.
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
quote:Originally posted by glassman: they want cheap slave labor
isn't that what cash cow and SF want too? speak up if i'm wrong guys.. i hear you saying it, but maybe i'm misunderstanding?
isn't that why the country is flooded with illegals?
the GOP says they want to fix immigration issues? LOL. they are the ones hiring the labor...
We have known this for some time. That is why the Tea Party is doing good...they are beating up establishment Republicans. Guess what, they are pissed. Regardless of what any argument one has....this November is going to be brutal.
don't be so sure cash.
i know what the polls say.
there's this wierd thing about those polls tho.
they are very generic. Just because th polls say that people want the GOP by a 10 point margin? teh TParty people are beating the GOPa,d the Tparty is as far right as you can go... they won't get the Dem vote. They can win in place that are GOP who voted for Dems last time.
In most cases? the Dem voters will not vote for the Tparty no matter how mad they are.
then you have to remember that all politics are local. Just because somebody in the poll says they want Pelosi out (for instance?) doesn't mean they will vote out their OWN Dem Congressperson cuz that person has seniority and brings the pork into town...
right now? the only thing we can deduce is that the GOP is MAD as hell and willing to vote out the old guard.
Dems may be mad too, but not for the same reasons, and not mad enough at the end of the day to vote for a T-Party person...
Clinton beat Daddy Bush because of Ross Perot, and I was going to vote for Ross, but when h equit in the middle of the campaign? I decided not to. He was correct, the jobs are now gone. Buti couldn't vote for quitter, and guess who quit her job befroe it was done? Palin, th ebiggest T-bagger of the bunch.
Even tho i beleiv in many of the same principles the TParyt says they belive in? I am never going to align myself with Palin or Beck or Limbugger.
don't get your hopes too high... but i am pretty sure nobody will be leaving cuz their party lost. The ones that do that? They all left here long ago....
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
All I know is im going to be having an election night party! The last one I went to was for Bush Jr on his first term.
Posted by R1 Man on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: All I know is im going to be having an election night party! The last one I went to was for Bush Jr on his first term.
I bet that party was for idiots only. Seriously...who would want to party over some jack ass winning an election. They don't give a crap about anyone but themselves. Its a ego thing. Who seriously would spend millions of $$$ for a job that pays $174,000 a year (here is the link http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/uscongress/a/congresspay.htm )
Going back to the earlier posts about unions: I work at Chrysler in a Assembly Plant. We have roughly 2,175 workers. We make $28 a hour. We build roughly 1,000 trucks a day. So lets do the math. 2175 x 28 = $60,900 cost in pay per day. We divide that by # of trucks built, 1000. 60900 / 1000 = $609 labor cost per truck.
Do you seriously think this amount is going to break their wallet or stop a buyer from buying a vehicle? So new truck costs $54,000 LOADED...lets deduct $609 and say labor was free. $53,391 final cost...WOW...great deal...I'll buy one. NOT!!! Labor cost does not dictate the auto market and cost per vehicle. The CEO's do. Speaking of Labor...Us BIG 3 Auto workers are UAW. The UAW owns majority of Chrysler, Ford and GM. Do we get profit bonuses or bonuses period? Do we make changes in what we sell or make? Do we dictate how much everyone should be paid? We do own majority of the company...so do we??? NOT A CHANCE!!!
Elections...UAW endorses a candidate and encourages employees to vote for those candidates. They pass out fliers stating why vote for them. They have them hanging in plants, passed out in plants and mailed to our homes. I have in the past been told to vote for someone by the Union President of my plant and union officials. But those days are gone in my plant.
FOX NEWS...yeah they were comedians in regards to Jefferson North Assembly Plant's infamous drinker/pot smokers. So what happened....12 employees got fired. 2 suspended for a month. FOX2 does not care about the families of those caught on film. The ones with kids I'm sure got teased and made fun of at school because their daddy got fired....etc. So FOX hurt them. We are already living check to check...month to month. So 12 employees fired. Brilliant!! That means 12 new FORECLOSURES!!! Great Job Fox2. I love my home's value going down. Did those employees get replaced? Maybe...but if they did...they were replaced with employees starting at $14 per hour. So 12 employees at half off is like paying 6 employees but having 12...but now the 12 new ones can't afford much and barely contribute much to the economy....while the 12 fired collect unemployment.
Obama and the Dems might of saved America and my job but...they still screwed the working with lots of BS!!! Too bad we can't be illegal immigrants...get free money from the working class...free healthcare paid by the working class...and all the other BS. Then banks, FRE/FNM/AIG getting bailed out and giving out bonuses...but not one bank or home loans company will refinance a home unless you have equity. Does this make sense...Say I owe $150,000 at 7%. The company that loaned the money is selling the same loan terms at 4%. They already have the contract with you but state they can not refinance you because of risk reasons because unfortunately your 150,000 house was falsely inflated by the same crooks who screwed all of us and the house is worth $75,000 now. But they are quick to foreclose and happy to sell the house for $30,000. Makes perfect sense. 3% is worth more then $120,000. Glad they got things right. BTW...this is not my situation...just generally what I see going on.
Posted by glassman on :
wow, R1 excellemt post.
i would never have have expected an unwashed potdrinking beersmoking union shop slob to be so literate.
heck you are rich, living off the fat o'the land... you can actually afford to buy a steak to split with your family once a week
a similar story: i hear that Chines labor in the iPhone costs 4$. The iphone is what? 300$? but we could tax that 4$ cost 100% at the border, and pay off the debt to China in a couple years.
on top of that? THAT measly 4$ TAX MIGHT BE JUST ENOUGH TO MAKE IT WORHTWEHILE TO BRING PRODUCTION BACK HERE WHERE IT BELONGS! its ridiculous how we have given our jobs away for a few cents.
this country is full of pinheads and Fox news is the piedpiper of pinheads.
Posted by R1 Man on :
Going back to the earlier posts about unions: I work at Chrysler in a Assembly Plant. We have roughly 2,175 workers. We make $28 a hour. We build roughly 1,000 trucks a day. So lets do the math. 2175 x 28 = $60,900 cost in pay per day. We divide that by # of trucks built, 1000. 60900 / 1000 = $609 labor cost per truck.
Have to correct something...I forgot to add in hours worked. I was sleepy when using the calculator.
2,175 workers 8 hours per day $28 per hour 1,000 trucks built
2,175 x 28 = $60,900 per hour. $60,900 x 8 hours = $487,200 $487,200 / 1,000 trucks = $487.20 Labor Cost per truck
Now how does that inflate the cost of ANY CAR built by any American car company?
Another thing...I buy vehicles at Copart.com and I bought a 09 Kia Spectra built in Korea and saw the sticker breakdown. The shipping cost was $750. Remember...it was made in Asia...not in North America. I bought a new 08 Jeep Grand Cherokee made in Detroit where the Jeep was delivered about 35 miles from where it was built. The destination cost was $860. Hmmm....Labor cost $487...Destination cost...$860. Ummm....Kia....car transported from Assembly plant to a port. Then shipped to America. Then transported to a distribution center...then transported to a dealership. So assuming it was shipped to California...then trucked to Detroit which is about 1,600+ miles I think...$750 only for destination....are you serious!!!
Can ANYONE explain why its cheaper shipping for Kia to build cars in Asia and send cars here for less money vs the Big 3 building and selling here.
Posted by buckstalker on :
quote:Originally posted by R1 Man: Going back to the earlier posts about unions: I work at Chrysler in a Assembly Plant. We have roughly 2,175 workers. We make $28 a hour. We build roughly 1,000 trucks a day. So lets do the math. 2175 x 28 = $60,900 cost in pay per day. We divide that by # of trucks built, 1000. 60900 / 1000 = $609 labor cost per truck.
Have to correct something...I forgot to add in hours worked. I was sleepy when using the calculator.
2,175 workers 8 hours per day $28 per hour 1,000 trucks built
2,175 x 28 = $60,900 per hour. $60,900 x 8 hours = $487,200 $487,200 / 1,000 trucks = $487.20 Labor Cost per truck
Now how does that inflate the cost of ANY CAR built by any American car company?
It doesn't...that's why it pisses me off to no end when some of these anti-union clowns post here bashing unions...
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