quote:Originally posted by glassman: fully automatic firearm and similar type of weapons.
they require a special tax tranfer stamp and a special permit. they are not being used in crimes. they are in fact fully historically documented and their owners are on lists.
you know nothing
As someone already pointed out... tell that to Chicago and their gangs that use such weapons...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
the weapon used in a murder by a gangbanger is not spreading propaganda.. he'll they even have video footage of these thugs shooting these weapons into the sky or carrying them... go watch Gangland on history channel.. the episodes on the Chicago gangs... any gun can be trafficked illegally including those...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: Mach...you remind me of the little dweeb back in high school that thought they "knew it all"...
you know...the guy that no one liked because he always had an "answer" for everything...yet you could clearly see that he was merely attempting to prove himself as intelligent by spewing bull$hit...
In this thread, you have proven that you don't know a damn thing about guns or gun laws nor do you have any viable solutions to the problems you complain about...yet you act like you're an expert...and claim to have all the answers...
I don't recall calling myself an expert or a know it all. I thought we were having a debate and we post each others' opinions.
Before you start being a d*ckhead as usual when I didn't start sh*t with you then perhaps point out where I was ignorant of gun laws (i posted a link of state by state gun laws), guns (i made myself clear which guns I meant), viable solutions (i suggested solutions that can be tweeked by the board or politicians or your mother)...
I really don't give a f*cking rat's azz if you like me or not Retired... you also have me confused with someone who gives a damn what you have to say... as usual if you do not like what i have to say then ignore my posts... if not then contribute to them intelligently and not as an azzhole... otherwise go back to your retirement to rest in pasture...
I can see why someone pulled a gun on you...you are an annoying little jerk...
and...you know nothing
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It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
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one mention of an "assault rifle" by a witness was mentioned in the first half-dozen articles.
there is no mention of fully automatic fire but there is mention of several people involved int e assault and one of them had an undefined assualt weapon.
my point is that the media likes to call anything an assault weapon.
real assault weapons are available with a tax stamp, a special permit, and about 15 grand.
Suspect in teens' slayings was acquitted in '05 fatal shooting February 25, 2009 10:22 AM | 12 Comments A 20-year-old reputed gang member who is in custody in connection with last Friday's assault rifle slayings of three teens on the city's Southeast Side was acquitted in a fatal 2005 shooting that occurred in the same area. The man, who has been arrested but not yet charged in the teen slayings, was acquitted in August in the March 2005 slaying of 19-year-old Danny Urbieta, according to court records. That slaying occurred in the 8700 block of South Escanaba Avenue.
Killed in the Friday shooting less than a block away near East 87th Street and South Exchange Avenue were two Bowen High School students--Kendrick Pitts, 17, and Raheem Washington 15--and a student from Mireles Academy elementary school, 13-year-old Johnny Edwards.
So far this school year, 25 Chicago public school students have been slain, compared to 26 for the entire previous school year.
The young man in the photo has been arrested and charged with three counts of murder. Here is what we know about Martin Ybarra. He is 20 years old and was acquitted six months ago for the shooting death of Danny Urbieta in 2005. Fine; perhaps he really didn’t kill Danny, and until his next trail is over, we cannot say for sure that he slaughtered Kendrick Pitts, Raheem Washington, and Johnny Edwards last week either. And, given the absolute certainty of police science in Illinois in general and Chicago in particular, Marty may be innocent of all charges and guilty only of a goofy nickname: Cartoon.
All that notwithstanding, there is a significant under-reported descriptor in this case. The Chicago Sun-Times did identify Marty as a former Special Education student at the time he was arrested, at age 16, for killing Urbieta. Special Education, special ed as it is affectionately known, is a deep, dark crevice in the brick wall that is the public school system. If parents are ever going to get stonewalled by educators, this is where it will happen.
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: I can see why someone pulled a gun on you...you are an annoying little jerk...
and...you know nothing
Nice reply considering you started the sh*t with me as usual... hope someone pulls a gun on you and retires you permantly... for trespassing of course... wouldn't want them to break the law
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: i ran a search for
East 87th Street shootings
that's the Chicago gang shooting of three teens.
one mention of an "assault rifle" by a witness was mentioned in the first half-dozen articles.
there is no mention of fully automatic fire but there is mention of several people involved int e assault and one of them had an undefined assualt weapon.
my point is that the media likes to call anything an assault weapon.
real assault weapons are available with a tax stamp, a special permit, and about 15 grand.
Wouldn't ballistics say what kind of weapon it was or police statements? ... but like i said it was video footage that I watched and not words in the Gangland Chicago episodes.. can probably find them on Youtube...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: I can see why someone pulled a gun on you...you are an annoying little jerk...
and...you know nothing
Nice reply considering you started the sh*t with me as usual... hope someone pulls a gun on you and retires you permantly... for trespassing of course... wouldn't want them to break the law
So you do advocate the use of guns on humans...as long as it serves your wants...
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It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Assault rifle recovered Ybarra was arrested Tuesday after witnesses and residents came forward, police said in a statement. Police said shells from the shooting indicated an assault rifle was the murder weapon and that an assault rifle had been recovered.
this is the phantom assult rifle.
first off? you cannot ID an assault rifle bythe shells. the shells mean NOTHING unless maybe you know that 50 shells were fired in one minute. then you have a clue.
the fact is this case is being sensationalised to get he ball rolling on an assault weapons ban again..
this was predictable as the sun rising.
Jeff Soyer on 26 Apr 2009 07:02 am
How the AP Defines “Assault Rifle”
In essence, they blame the ATF:
The pro-gun people say that an “assault weapon” is a term that applies only to a fully automatic weapon (one that keeps firing as long as you hold the trigger back). They say it’s inaccurate to use the term for a semi-automatic weapon (one that fires a single round each time you pull the trigger). They say the only difference between a semi-automatic hunting rifle and an “assault rifle” is cosmetic: Take an ordinary hunting rifle, switch out the stock, slap on a banana clip, put a flash suppressor over the barrel, give it a camouflage paint job, and presto — it’s an assault weapon.
Well . . . yes, says the ATF, which defines it like this: “In general, assault weapons are semi-automatic firearms with a large magazine of ammunition that were designed and configured for rapid fire and combat use.”
Taking its cue from that, the Associated Press Stylebook defines assault weapons as “firearms that feature two or more accessories such as a detachable magazine, folding or telescopic stock, silencer, pistol grip, bayonet mount or a device to suppress the flash emitted while shooting in the dark.”
Still seems rather cosmetic to me. With all of the above, it’s still just a semi-automatic rifle regardless of what the ATF or the AP chooses to call it. Actually, though, the AP isn’t using the ATF definition, they’re using the one dreamed up by politicians for the original 1994 Clinton ban on so called “assault weapons.”
quote:Originally posted by glassman: i ran a search for
East 87th Street shootings
that's the Chicago gang shooting of three teens.
one mention of an "assault rifle" by a witness was mentioned in the first half-dozen articles.
there is no mention of fully automatic fire but there is mention of several people involved int e assault and one of them had an undefined assualt weapon.
my point is that the media likes to call anything an assault weapon.
real assault weapons are available with a tax stamp, a special permit, and about 15 grand.
Wouldn't ballistics say what kind of weapon it was or police statements? ... but like i said it was video footage that I watched and not words in the Gangland Chicago episodes.. can probably find them on Youtube...
find me a link. i'll look.
ballistics can ID the gun from a slug.
some shells can be ID'd by their markings from different moving parts that scratch or dent the shells. shells from single shot guns and full auto guns can be interchanged if they are chambered for the same rounds.
i have a single shot .223 rifle which can shoot M-16 ammo... i also have a single shot pistol that can shoot the same rounds. it's called a Contender (if you don't beleive me)
the media is working on the gun issue to make people afraid.
we have 100 million gun owners in this country and relatively few of them should not have them
all honest gun owners want hem not to have them too, but we are not interested in giving up our guns because .0001% of the gun owners are animals
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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I would have to look at hours of episode on Youtube to find the actual clips they showed if they even have them on youtube... but if you wish to look through them just put in keywords: chicago gangland episode . But look at the black gangbanger ones and not the Latin Kings and such..
quote:all honest gun owners want hem not to have them too, but we are not interested in giving up our guns because .0001% of the gun owners are animals
Again, no one is saying to give up your guns or take away your guns. You keep saying that while me and BF keep telling you on the contrary. I suggest you reread BF's long post.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: I find it sad that people shoot other people and wouldn't wish it on anyone...not even you Mach...
I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger if someone was threatening me or my family though...
I would never use a gun out of anger or for revenge...only for personnal protection and gathering food
That is about the only reasonable statement I have heard a gun owner say... I just didn't like what you said before with my gun incident and i replied in kind out of anger...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: I find it sad that people shoot other people and wouldn't wish it on anyone...not even you Mach...
I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger if someone was threatening me or my family though...
I would never use a gun out of anger or for revenge...only for personnal protection and gathering food
That is about the only reasonable statement I have heard a gun owner say... I just didn't like what you said before with my gun incident and i replied in kind out of anger...
Every statement that Glassman has made on this topic has been reasonable...and true
Also...if you are that easily angered...I'm glad you don't own any guns...
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It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
i had a family member that lost his hand to a shotgun. the story was that it was leaned on the porch and fell over due to some unspecified act. the story was never questioned and my uncle never got a prosthetic. he did work his whole life anyway.
he lived thru the depression to give an age to him.
nobody in the family swore off guns any more than they swore of cars cuz somebody died in an accident.
motorcycles were no-no in my family cuz somebody was lost on a foggy Christmas morning. He died on an Indian.
my dad wouldn't let me have a BB guncuz a friend of his lost an eye to one in elementary school.
i was allowed to have a real gun at 12, and it was never ever played with.
i bought my son a BB gun and took it away from him when i saw him playing with it.
guns are just a basic part of non-city life the US.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I guess I did not ask this before or clearly to everyone who is pro-gun...
but what would you say to that kids mother knowing your actions and gun killed him? Would it make you think differently about the whole gun issue?
Or would you think differently about the gun issue if it was your child killed in that fashion, by accident (kid playing with gun and it went off), you shot him by accident thinking he was a intruder in the night, he committed suicide etc.. etc..
What would make you think differently about the gun issue if not these things i named or which of these things i named?
Have you ever changed your mind about an issue due to a personal tragedy or do you think you ever would if it happened to you?
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Have you ever changed your mind about an issue due to a personal tragedy or do you think you ever would if it happened to you?
Mach, it still comes down to taking responsibilty for your actions.
i and i am sure others understand your problem with them, but your problem is sorta like DDT. DDT is basically non-toxic to mammals. we can shake the pure powder on our bodies to remove lice and fleas (yes people get fleas, and did much more often just 75 years ago)
there are old (depression era) films of people being deloused enmasse with DDT like it was baby powder. thing is? it kills alot of other stuff..
some people don't care, but they SHOULD.
most all pesticides are toxic to more than just the target pests, but we use them based on the cost risk analysis.
in the end? it is people, not the pesticides that destroy the environment with the pesticides. we increase our crop yeilds an more people can live more beter lives.
i've been in several countries where people are not allowed to own guns and they are much worse off for it in most of them. like Mexico for starters.
Britain and a few other eurocountries are no better or worse for having htem or not, but several of those eurocountries owned several dozens of colonies by using guns on people that didn't have them didn't they?
and don't try to tell me you know that humanity is evolved tot eh point where they are superfluous... there's more criminals in suits and ties than there are on the streets. the suit and tie types are much more dangerous too.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Machiavelli: I guess I did not ask this before or clearly to everyone who is pro-gun...
but what would you say to that kids mother knowing your actions and gun killed him? Would it make you think differently about the whole gun issue?
Or would you think differently about the gun issue if it was your child killed in that fashion, by accident (kid playing with gun and it went off), you shot him by accident thinking he was a intruder in the night, he committed suicide etc.. etc..
What would make you think differently about the gun issue if not these things i named or which of these things i named?
Have you ever changed your mind about an issue due to a personal tragedy or do you think you ever would if it happened to you?
can not imagine my actions paralleling ANYBODY's actions as described... is kinda like asking, "What if you molested children?"
feeling me, here?
My child? Doubt I would go into an area that had a posted sign such as they posted. Well, unless I somehow had a job that was at least somewhat legally defensible to neutralize the threat that they obviously posed.
Personal tragedy/change your mind:
As far as firearms go, had an accident once that STRONGLY reinforced my father's (and elders') very emphatic instructions to always be safe with a firearm you *think* might be unloaded.
So, the way I changed my mind was to change myself and live up to what I had been taught.
On a different track, I was happy to be informed that my favorite kissin' cousin fended off a carjacking and a possible/probable rape by emerging from her pickup and quickly looking down the barrel of a 12-gauge shotgun. They left, and she drove on home, molested no further.
She kept the shotgun handy, though...
As far as personal tragedy goes, I learned the hard way about "the cobbler's kids." That is, I never had smoke detectors in my house that burned, even though a woodburning stove was our main heat for more than 20 years.
You can bet my new home has some damn, fine smoke detectors.
posted
Personally I don't think anyone here can answer those questions at least pertaining to the gun issue unless it has personally happened to them... their child i mean... i know of stories where a child accidentally shot himself or a family member (usually another child) and it broke up the family/marriage... and more times then none the gun owner thought differently about owning a gun in a house.. some of then tragedly became alcoholics or killed themselves...
But til something like that happens to us directly I don't think we can really answer how we would react. We can say on this board all we want how we would react but when and if it happens the reality is you can react differently...
Anyways you guys still haven't answered what you would say to that kids' mother if you had shot him dead... the one in the story...
Also I don't think they saw that sign that was posted on that property... and to make it clear again they were not on those two rednecks' property... in other words they were not trespassing... they were just shot down in cold blood...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by T e x: As far as personal tragedy goes, I learned the hard way about "the cobbler's kids." That is, I never had smoke detectors in my house that burned, even though a woodburning stove was our main heat for more than 20 years.
You can bet my new home has some damn, fine smoke detectors.
I guess it takes a personal tragedy before we are moved to do something. I was never interested in the breast cancer cause til i lost a loved one and now I'm a breast cancer advocate. Email letters to my senators to vote for certain laws, donate to komen.org, wear a pink ribbon everyday at work to remind customers of breast cancer awareness etc. etc.
It is sad that it takes a personal tragedy to do so whether breast cancer, fire, death by a gun etc.
I was almost shot 2 times in my life and I guess that has affected me subconciously and most on this board imo have not experienced such a thing....
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
i did repo work for years- had more than one gun pointed at me in that work. it is illegal in most states for a repoman to be armed off his own premises. so no, i wasn't carrying, and even a permit would not allow a weapon to be carried in repo work in the states i worked in.
didn't change my mind.
if people didn't have guns in thier homes? their would be alot more theft. cops can't prevent crimes they are there to catch people that commit them after they do it.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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"I was almost shot 2 times in my life and I guess that has affected me subconciously and most on this board imo have not experienced such a thing...."
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Depending on the situation, you might wish you were armed if they are shooting at you.
I don't personally want a gun, but i think there would be a lot more crime if crooks and others knew nobody but police and military had them.
This is one of the reasons i feel that gun availability to citizens is necessary.
Of course that's been brought up many times in the past.
I always worry about though accidental shootings though and that's always a potential reality of owning a gun.
Getting shot at isn't that much fun unless your superman.
But i think there might be some on this board that wish they had only been shot at twice in their lifetime.
If i got shot at much, i might change my mind about owning a gun.
But then again i would probably end up shooting myself accidently, so it would not be a good idea for me.
Posts: 3875 | From: ca. | Registered: Jul 2005
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-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: cops can't prevent crimes they are there to catch people that commit them after they do it.
This last line is a very true statement that I wish more people understood. Crime prevention is environmental, the police force is tactical response only.
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
S..S...S...Sorry for th...th..the double P.Post guys!
The first one was comments that were rendered irrelevant by other posts in the discussion that I had not gotten to yet.
Here's a question for you rural folks. We are a land of equality an all so this probably would never work but could you see as acceptable stricter gun control rules if they only affected the largest metropolises of our nation? Or would that, in its own way, be even worse? (Playing Devils Questionaire here)
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: The way I see it....you can create as many laws as you want or even BAN guns in this country...
the bad guys would still get guns...
Thats why I have been trying to get through their heads. It just doesnt make sense to them for some reason. Lawless will always remain lawless no matter how much you use crime as an excuse to ban firearms. People just want a good scapegoat to their fears and blaming guns for crime is a good way to make them feel better.
Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
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if people didn't have guns in thier homes? their would be alot more theft. cops can't prevent crimes they are there to catch people that commit them after they do it.
The presence of police as well as less poverty in my area is what deters and prevents crime not gun ownership. IMO versus certain parts of the country like Miss where you live, relatively few people own guns in Long Island and we have a low crime rate imo...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: The way I see it....you can create as many laws as you want or even BAN guns in this country...
the bad guys would still get guns...
And they can still commit rape, get drugs, rob banks, kidnap etc.. etc.. but we don't abolish those laws or stop creating new stricter laws to violent crime just because criminals will do it anyway...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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