quote:Originally posted by glassman: I could care less about consensus. That is not reality.
And I don't hate America per say but I won't overrate it based on perception.
actaully you attack most everything about America if i post it,
and the funny part is that you tend to contradict yourself.
an' yeah i have begun to ignore most of your rants and will continue to do so because you keep trying to personalise everything.
i can go to othe boards to share personal crapola.
If I attack anything about America is because it has faults that need to be fixed. Even you can agree with that. I am not going to praise it when there is bad with the good but it's ignored and only the good is praised.
As for me personalize anything, I tried to debate you on Thailand and such. And you call that being personal? lol That was not being personal but you made it so. The only thing I agree with you about Asia is the environmental issues in general and human rights issues in China but nothing else. And I try to point out to you errors about Thailand based on your visit there millions of years ago and how it has and is progressing and you choose to ignore it and say im "FOS" << this isn't personal?
I even laid out economic facts about it that were not my own opinions but cold hard facts and you ignore it... So you better evaluate who is taking it personal and who isn't.
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Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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yawn, it isn't a question of choosing between Thialnd and the US:
Is the Party Just Getting Started for Thailand's Yellow Shirt Protesters?
By Robert Horn / Bangkok Wednesday, May. 27, 2009 Protestors from the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) cheer near the end of their siege at Suvarnabhumi international airport in Bangkok,
Thailand, on Dec. 2, 2008
Having helped to bring down two Thai governments through street protests, invading airports and seizing the offices of the prime minister, members of a controversial Thai protest movement want to lay claim to those same offices again — through the ballot box.
the yellowshirts are upset about something.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: yawn, it isn't a question choosing between Thialnd and the US:
Is the Party Just Getting Started for Thailand's Yellow Shirt Protesters? By Robert Horn / Bangkok Wednesday, May. 27, 2009 Protestors from the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) cheer near the end of their siege at Suvarnabhumi international airport in Bangkok, Thailand, on Dec. 2, 2008
Is the Party Just Getting Started for Thailand's Yellow Shirt Protesters? By Robert Horn / Bangkok Wednesday, May. 27, 2009 Protestors from the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) cheer near the end of their siege at Suvarnabhumi international airport in Bangkok, Thailand, on Dec. 2, 2008 Having helped to bring down two Thai governments through street protests, invading airports and seizing the offices of the prime minister, members of a controversial Thai protest movement want to lay claim to those same offices again — through the ballot box.
Yes, I knew about that when it started. In fact they started wearing red shirts and switched to Yellow. I called my friends to make sure they were ok when it started.
But anyways if you read my posts about Thailand entirely you would of read me saying that it's growth has been stumped due to their "present political instability". Politically they are a mess right now because of their current PM and their ousted PM.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: so they have a better way of life?
cuz i thought that was waht we discissing?
and my issue with you is specifically about changing the topic midtopic in some attempt to "prove me wrong" and then caliming you did. it's wierd.
I said economically they were getting there til the asian financial crisis of the 90's and their current political problems... the stats indicate they are getting there if they can clear up this political mess..
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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Mach, when i discussed my opinions about the Chines economy? you made the same sorts of claims, you even said that the media protrayal of the way Chinese live is wrong and that i don't know anything about how they live too. yet i know for fact how they live. I even have Chinese Natioanls bugging me to move there to teach glass and make lots of dough. i don't wanna.
this is the same argument with a different country name now.
fact is? i know alotof people here in th eStates from all over asia. i grew up studyiong Judo from a half Japanese half American US citizen. i actually speak just enough Japanese to be polite over there. you've accused me of being racist when i'm not, you accused me of being US biased toady when i am not, but if you polled the wolrd on where they would choose to live? you would definitley get the the US as a top pick if not the top pick.
it's getting old and i'm done with these ridiculous conversations.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: but if you polled the wolrd on where they would choose to live? you would definitley get the the US as a top pick if not the top pick.
it's getting old and i'm done with these ridiculous conversations.
The difference between China (of which i speak to people who currently live there, while you speak to nationals here who for all i know are from HK and not Beijing or Shanghai) and Thailand is I been to Thailand recently and seen it with my own eyes and still speak to people who live there both thai nationals and an american. You haven't been there since the 80's it sounds. My bad if I'm wrong if not the 80's but that is what it sounds.
As for your poll on people coming here as their #1 choice. That is probably true now as it was in the late 1800's to early 1900's. But I will tell you why and that is because of the perception that our streets are paved with gold. Ever hear of that expression as one used back in the late 19th century and early 20th century by immigrants in your history books in high school?. Alot of immigrants think that they move here and whatever job they get they will automatically be rich or very well off. We all know that is not true.
Anyways why don't we approach this a different way excluding the insults. Why don't you tell me and the board which aspects of American life you considered a higher standard of living then other countries (all including asian, european etc.) and which aspects you do not. You can't tell me all are the highest then around the world. But anyways tell us your thoughts and we can take it from there.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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we have better plumbing and transportation than much of the world.
in China? according to the world bank 300 million of their population still lives as peasant farmers. they make about 300$ per year at most, many make half that. that's severeal hundred million people- about the same as the whole US
so add economic disparity to the list for China.
also add the schools that all fell down in the quake due to lax building codes and prolly bribed govt officials they were new buildings.
then take the Tibet issue too.
as it is i'm not that interested in rating standards of living .
i live in one of the most poverty stricken areas of the US and i don't HAVE to. i am an agent of change myself.
my point to robot was that Asians do in fact get higher average scores on aptitude tests (not IQ tests) and this is primarily due to the fact that they are "conformist" societies. they are very rigid and demanding of the people to follow rules. their kids are well trained to follow the rules and they do... i think i was agreeing on that point with Robot.
as for the US and it's play? name me one other country that can support so many professional athletes and artists.
that's always a good measure of society..
we have thriving pro football, baseball, hockey, car racing and COULD have thriving soccer if people cared enough.
no other country can boast that at the level we do. that is why i claim we work hard and play hard. as for economics? the US worker is the most productive worker in the world as measured by GDP U.S. workers most productive; Average American produces $63,885 of wealth; Irish come in 2nd
Article from: Chicago Sun-Times Article date: September 3, 2007
American workers stay longer in the office, at the factory or on the farm than their counterparts in Europe and most other rich nations, and they produce more per person over the year.
They also get more done per hour than everyone but the Norwegians, according to a U.N. report released today, which said the United States "leads the world in labor productivity."
The average U.S. worker produces $63,885 of wealth per year, more than their counterparts in all other countries, the International Labor Organization said in its report. Ireland comes in second at $55,986, followed by Luxembourg at $55,641, Belgium at $55,235 and France at $54,609.
so as you can see? i am not just blowing smoke when i say we work hardest and play hard too...
China could not compete with US workers IF the govt of China was not manipulating their currency and subsidizing their businesses.
it is crime for the US to not impose import duties on a nation that does what the Chinese govt does.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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oh yeah i forgot pro basssetball too.. then there's all the college sports... these are just some of the reasons people consider the US to have the highest standard of living.
as for my personal tastes? there are places i would rather be, but then i'm not normal Iceland would be nice if they didn't just go bankrupt last year.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: no other country can boast that at the level we do. that is why i claim we work hard and play hard. as for economics? the US worker is the most productive worker in the world as measured by GDP [b] U.S. workers most productive; Average American produces $63,885 of wealth; Irish come in 2nd
Exactly my point... everything in this country is about money... and that to me at least does not always measure a higher standard of living when all we do is work work work work etc. Yes we are highly productive in the workplace but at what price?
We neglect our kids/family more because of no time (and I don't mean you in particular but just in general), our health due to stress/bad eating habits-diets/no exercise etc.
If you look at the stats for various issues such as health, education, crime,environment, taxes etc. we are not even close to the top in alot of them though not all of them... so how do you measure that we have the highest standard of living? With Money? Who makes the most? Again that is not the be all end all of measuring a countrys' standard of living though certainly it is a important factor but not the only factor. And let's not forget alot of our wealth is false wealth because this is a debtor nation. We buy alot on credit and live way above our means. The country as a whole owes alot of debt to China. So false wealth like I said.
Imo Europe is very much up there in alot of categories and collected as a whole I think they have better standards of living then us.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: oh yeah i forgot pro basssetball too.. then there's all the college sports... these are just some of the reasons people consider the US to have the highest standard of living.
as for my personal tastes? there are places i would rather be, but then i'm not normal Iceland would be nice if they didn't just go bankrupt last year.
Sports is in alot of countries not just ours and not just soccer...
As for Iceland... only good for the gorgeous blondes that live there... and i plan to visit there someday...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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We neglect our kids/family more because of no time (and I don't mean you in particular but just in general), our health due to stress/bad eating habits-diets/no exercise etc.
i agree. for instance? i am often asked why i am not famous (yet) it's purely because i am staying close to home for another couple of years till the kids are all growed up. it really pisses some people off, but i'm pretty happy with it and the kids would definitley prefer i was on the road alot more so i must be doing my job keeping an eye on them - i still remeber what i was up to as a teenager and it wasn't good and i am using the time to myself to refine my designs and techniques. it's not wasted at all....
while our standard of living is CONSIDERED the highest it is based on money and when a person tells me greed is good, i take issue with them go figure that
we have traded something for this "prosperity".
i hate it when i see (for instance) a South American tribe in ratty t-shirts swim trunks instead of their own cultures clothes. it does make them seem poor.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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As for Iceland... only good for the gorgeous blondes that live there... and i plan to visit there someday...
Icelandics are the most literate people in the world. they are (as awhole) very smart and very quirky, i've enjoyed knowing several. they also have geothermal energy which would be good for my business.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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i agree. for instance? i am often asked why i am not famous (yet) it's purely because i am staying close to home for another couple of years till the kids are all growed up. it really pisses some people off, but i'm pretty happy with it and the kids would definitley prefer i was on the road alot more so i must be doing my job keeping an eye on them - i still remeber what i was up to as a teenager and it wasn't good and i am using the time to myself to refine my designs and techniques. it's not wasted at all....
Your one of the exceptions but for the most part we do not have time in our lives due to our careers/jobs... while other cultures such as Europeans/Asians do have more time, less stress, better health (their diets are better then ours that is for sure), a closer knit family etc. They may not be richer then us or make more money on average then us but I would say they are more happy and healthier then us.
quote:while our standard of living is CONSIDERED the highest it is based on money and when a person tells me greed is good, i take issue with them go figure that
Greed isn't always money neither
quote:we have traded something for this "prosperity".
i hate it when i see (for instance) a South American tribe in ratty t-shirts swim trunks instead of their own cultures clothes. it does make them seem poor.
Ya, I'm not too fond when a culture is or is starting to get wiped out due to outside influences.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: As for Iceland... only good for the gorgeous blondes that live there... and i plan to visit there someday...
Icelandics are the most literate people in the world. they are (as awhole) very smart and very quirky, i've enjoyed knowing several. they also have geothermal energy which would be good for my business.
I admire their culture, language etc. from what I read but i admire their blonde women the most
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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I must be frank on this. If you don't on a gun you're a fool.
The reason for me saying that is this.....the guy that may break into your house....or assault your family....or go ape **** crazy due to a mental breakdown....or etc. etc. etc.....Probably has a gun.
Governments overstep bounds,Accidents happen, Stupid people exist. It is for these reasons responsible citizens not only own guns, but teach their children about gun ownership and respect.
-------------------- "The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC) Posts: 386 | From: Georgia | Registered: May 2009
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quote:Originally posted by rounder1: I must be frank on this. If you don't on a gun you're a fool.
The reason for me saying that is this.....the guy that may break into your house....or assault your family....or go ape **** crazy due to a mental breakdown....or etc. etc. etc.....Probably has a gun.
Governments overstep bounds,Accidents happen, Stupid people exist. It is for these reasons responsible citizens not only own guns, but teach their children about gun ownership and respect.
Ever used yours on another person?
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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No...and hopefully I never will, but it is nice to know that I am afforded an effective means to deal with an imposing threat; if need be. I am from south Georgia and I gave up hunting years ago......(yeah I am a sissy)....not really still love to eat deer; I just like to watch them also.
In a perfect world the ability make guns would not exist....but since it does; I want the same chance as the person that has bad intentions.
If guns were outlawed; criminals would be the only persons with them.
-------------------- "The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC) Posts: 386 | From: Georgia | Registered: May 2009
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quote: If guns were outlawed; criminals would be the only persons with them.
Sigh...I get so tired of that phrase. If beef were outlawed only criminals would have cows. If water were outlawed Nevada would become the most populous state in the nation. If Elmers glue were outlawed young children would burn themselves with hot glue guns a lot more often. If I were outlawed, you'd all be accomplices!!!
The phrase is overdone and meaningless.
Anywho...back to my original point...what was that???
Oh yes, I was trying to figure out why you were calling me a fool for not owning a gun to protect myself from all the big baddies in the world. I figured you must have a great story about how your gun saved you wife, property, and little Fido too since you are so ready to pronounce me, a non-gun owner, as a...
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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Thanks for the definitions, Webster, but I am not in the habit of using words that I don't know the meanings of (oh my....if you are an English teacher too; you will realize that I just used a preposition at the end of a sentence!)
Sorry for using a phrase that has been overdone. Wonder why you have heard it so many times????
Just because I have never shot the bad the guy does not mean that others have not. It would have been just easy to lie and say that I held off a hoard of sodomites heck bent on having there way with my grandmother, but that is not the case.
I did not mean any disrespect to any person that chooses not to own a gun, but I do feel that it is not just a right but a duty of responsible persons to know how to resposibly own and use a gun. However, I can acknowlede that "fool" may have been a poor word choice.
I have used my gun many times (killed a Rattle Snake yesterday)....but you are correct....never to deter hostile behaviour from another person. As I previously stated; I hope that I never have to.
-------------------- "The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC) Posts: 386 | From: Georgia | Registered: May 2009
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Upon re-reading your post; I have to say that you are exactly right.....It is identical to insurance.....
I hope that you never have to rely on the "duck" due to your failure to rely on yourself.
-------------------- "The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC) Posts: 386 | From: Georgia | Registered: May 2009
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LOL (My mother was the english teacher, not ...I.)
I do respect your desire to protect your poor grandmother from all those raging sodomites and I think you will find that very few in this thread would support a ban on guns, but there are some like myself who don't believe it is acceptable to chalk up those who are hurt and killed by guns in the hands of criminals and youth as the necessary casualties of the right to bear arms.
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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funny thing about cliches, they tend to be axiomatic.
it has much deeper implications than you give credit for.
the criminals with the guns will have much more power over you.
they will be much less concerned with worrying about who might be armed and who isn't...
much like the Mexican Govt that likes to blame US for their violence problems? it's not looking squarely a the issue.
In Mexico guns are basically banned, they are available legally to a select few...
Mexico went thru a terrible period recently when they had 100's of truck hijacking each year. Millions upon millions of dollars were just taken by road bandits. No guns makes the job easier. When Mexico blames US for the levels of violence their own people are willing to sink to? They are atttmpting to abrogate most of the responsibility that they have.
the police who will of course have them will also becom emuch more "assertive" in their manner....
as the police become more and ore assertive they will eventually just be well, criminals too...
there is absolutely no doubt that the Revolutionaries who founded our country were thinking about balance of power when they wrote the 2nd. It is found in their writings outside of the Constitution, several of us here have posted them numerous times.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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Hey man (i think)....I know that I am doing the quote thing wrong.....still learning.....sorry. I will figure it out eventually.
"I do respect your desire to protect your poor grandmother from all those raging sodomites and I think you will find that very few in this thread would support a ban on guns, but there are some like myself who don't believe it is acceptable to chalk up those who are hurt and killed by guns in the hands of criminals and youth as the necessary casualties of the right to bear arms."
Now that is a position that I can respect. In truth, even agree with. I just fail to see the alternative as being viable. Everything has trade-offs....and I know how crummy it is to call such a thing a trade-off.....but like I said in my first post.....stupid people exist (the dumbasses that shot him....not the kid). Guns have emabled a tremendous amount of evil, but they have hindered just as much.
I am just of the opinion that I don't won't to be the one without the means. If I knew that all of them could be done away with tomorrow and noone would ever have another gun; I would probably vote for it......but that just ain't (south Georgia) so.
-------------------- "The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC) Posts: 386 | From: Georgia | Registered: May 2009
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I hope that you never have to rely on the "duck" due to your failure to rely on yourself.
No no ...that's just it. I do rely on myself and have never found myself less than equal to the task. You rely on two guys named Smith and Wesson.
P.S. Welcome to the board. Good to get new blood in here from time to time. Otherwise it just ends up being a few of us oldies endlessly dancing around the same subjects.
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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use these [ ] in combination with i or b to begin a bold or italisized statement, and use /i or /b in between those [] to end the bold or italisze command ...
i tend to bold people that i am quoting cuz italics look feminine to me and most guys don't want to have their wors made "girly"
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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I look forward to the challenge of trying to keep up!
Thanks for the help on the quote thing too....I will have to play around with it. Have to say that I have no artistic capability whatsoever, but glass working does sound fun. Perhaps one day I can afford to have a piece commissioned!!!!
-------------------- "The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC) Posts: 386 | From: Georgia | Registered: May 2009
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quote:Originally posted by rounder1: Thanks B.F. and Glass,
I think I am going to enjoy this.
I look forward to the challenge of trying to keep up!
Thanks for the help on the quote thing too....I will have to play around with it. Have to say that I have no artistic capability whatsoever, but glass working does sound fun. Perhaps one day I can afford to have a piece commissioned!!!!
oooooooo fresh meat...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote: If guns were outlawed; criminals would be the only persons with them.
Sigh...I get so tired of that phrase.
I also get tired when people keep using the word "ban" when we mean "control"... in the perfect world I would love guns to be banned outright, not exist at all. in the perfect world. But a perfect world we do not live in so i at least want it controlled properly which imo it is not... and before you jump in Glass... don't bother... because all of BF's posts/opinions in this thread is what I believe in... he says it best and reasonable...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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I think I can handle a dead Italian Philospher!!!!
....Okay....so I had to Google it. Sue me.
-------------------- "The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC) Posts: 386 | From: Georgia | Registered: May 2009
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using the word "ban" when we mean "control"..
you know Mach? you basically say you want them banned in the same post.
at least be honest.
in the end you really mean "control people" no matter how much you want to make it about "controlling machines".
free people do not give up control. we will die first. and people will die trying to make us, now why would people want to die trying to enslave others?
ever hear of a domesticated Zebra? they don't exist. there's a reason for that too
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: using the word "ban" when we mean "control"..
you know Mach? you basically say you want them banned in the same post.
at least be honest.
in the end you really mean "control people" no matter how much you want to make it about "controlling machines".
free people do not give up control. we will die first. and people will die trying to make us, now why would people want to die trying to enslave others?
ever hear of a domesticated Zebra? they don't exist. there's a reason for that too
Oh ok, so basically you are saying humans are animals that can't or shouldn't be controlled...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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