That's too bad about the marriage not lasting...sounds like her parents hung on real tight even after she left their nest.
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Thanks Ramius.
It wasn't the first thing that made me question the motives and results of coservatitve christian thinking but it was the example that most impacted my life.
After that happened my brother didn't feel he could be an effective leader at the church with a failed marriage in front of their eyes.
He now works sixty hours a week managing a coffee store.
A waste of a good man with a good heart.
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues.
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I've seen dubya in action since way before he was Texas governor and known he is fundamentally a crook.
His time in the White house was going to be a collection of jerks that intended to lie and steal and try to displace the Constitution, because they are that kind of people. dubya was always a failure at any honest or honorable endevor, but excelled in collecting a cadre of crooks and cheating and stealing, then lying about it later.
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Bdgee - You said to me: "Where do you get the idea that you have any ability or right to declare what others are thinking or have done in their life?"
You than proceed to do the exact thing you accuse me of. Repeatedly. See for yourself.
"What you want is to leave poor families that have no options but the public schools with a curriculum that requires they submit to your dogma, so that their kids will become trapped in your religion like caged animals, even though that may be quite contrary to their parents wishes. " - Bdgee to Think Money
"You are not researching, you are spreading dogma, most of which is lies and all of which is hateful." - Bdgee to Think Money
"Looks to me like you cut too many English classes in Jr high and can't comprehend the language too pretty good, boy. - Bdgee to Rimasco
The Constitution has stood well on its language for a long time, in spite of those misreadings and misquotes you foster. When it says "no" that is what it means, not some wishy-washy interpretation that allows religion to be forced on the people by the Government because of some self centered self important evangelical group that won't bother to learn to read." - Bdgee to Rimasco
"It iseducation, not indoctrination, which is what you advocate. It is there to teach children how to think, not what to think. Simply because it doesn't accept dictation from your religion does not make it liberal politically." - Bdgee to Think Money
"I certainly could have made thaat same mistake, Sasquatch, since 99 times out of a 100 the person speaking for a "need" for Government support of private schools is asking the Government to sanction the religious indoctrination of little children to his religious beliefs. They seems to be asking the Government to ignore the Constitution to me, though. (No, "seem" crap, they are without a doubt wanting the Government to ignore the Constitution.)" - Bdgee to Sasquatch apparently referring to 99% of those wanting religion taught in schools
"No, your incessant harangue of anything not in strict adherence with the far right wing religious extreme makes it clear you have no respect for anyone, working or not, that does not fit the mold of the far right religious extreme." - Bdgee to Think Money
"You are all a bunch of nitwit educational failures, whose ideas about scholarship and intellectual integrity are absolutely vulgar..... What you are is a clique of anit-American traitorous vermine leaching on the blood of our society...... Isn't there some other Country that you would rather go to to live, that already ascribes to your wishes, where the teaching in schools is religious? What about some place in the Middle east? They all seem to cherish your desire to let religion dictate how and what the schools teach to children." -Bdgee to....every Christian on earth?
Again you accuse me of "declaring what other's think" and than make the comments above. Don't alot of your comments sound like declaring what others are thinking?
posted
You'd think he'd have the common sense to not publically do the same thing he accuses me of. Over and over again. Everybody trips up once in a while but my God. Hell with him it's just right out there in the open. It's just blatant.
posted
I have a new home computer so I now actually post from three different computers. I was at home and forgot my password, so I just re-registered and put an extra space in my screen name so I could keep John Wayne. Surprisingly that worked.
You are clearly not bothering to pay attention to what I said. I don't assume from absolutely nothing that someone thinks the opposite of how I do, which is what you do. I take what someone has said and extend and extrapolate that to the absurd that it is. That is a deliberate and practiced analysis.
Almost everything you have quoted is taken out of context and most is in direct response to some specific claim or announcement. Most are statements of fact, not assumptions.
You have a habit of declaring someone thinks in some way you vilify in a question that opens a discussion. Questions that you seem to begins as "Since you believe (some disgusting or by you proported to be disgusting thing) how do you........", when there is no prior evidence to justifying an assumption that the person holds such a belief.
Instead of announcing others are evil or think evilly as an introduction to a subject, then demanding they justify it, why not ask what they believe rather than assuming it to suit your bent? Understand that many times you are going to get told what you want to believe is wrong, such as you notion that you have some understanding of my political leanings.
Politically speaking, understand I am disgusted with this bunch of theives and crooks that is in Washington claiming to be repulicans and I am equally disgustewd with any that back them up in any way. This country is in serious danger of ceasing to be a democracy, due to the idiots and sheep that condone this bunch and their rape of the Constitution.
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BDGEE- Most of your statements are factual? A few are but most is a big stretch. You are factual about labor, constitution and a few others but most of your posts on this thread have just seemed angry and that anger distracts from your ideas. Take a look back at your posts and look for facts, not opinions. Feel free to paste what you feel are facts.
Also please cut and paster where I do this:"You have a habit of declaring someone thinks in some way you vilify in a question that opens a discussion. Questions that you seem to begins as "Since you believe (some disgusting or by you proported to be disgusting thing) how do you........", when there is no prior evidence to justifying an assumption that the person holds such a belief."
And please paste examples of this: "Instead of announcing others are evil or think evilly as an introduction to a subject, then demanding they justify it, why not ask what they believe rather than assuming it to suit your bent" ....I tried that when I asked your thoughts on the second ammendment. You than accused me of making assumptions. You are a teacher Bdgee.... you know the things you are wfiting are hurtful and anger filled. I'm not sure extrapolating makes it ok but I guess I can live with it now that I know that's what your doing. Rush does the same thing. Let's see if we can figure out where we're coming from than we can understand eachother a little better.
You are a member of the flock of the RNC and nothing else. You play by the rules they taught you and have no concern for fact or reason, just worship of the Party. Truth isn't part of the plan by which you play.
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You should read what a person says before responding so unitelligently...
I do not care what others do. I said ... 1). all religions honored depending in student population ans silent prayer
2). more importamtly< i support credit vouchers. You use yours for public education. I use mine for private. All use the vouchers how they want. So, before you respond jibberishly..read...and dont misinterpret.
Thats why I ususally ignore your posts because you talk AT vs discuss.
I dont care to force indoctrinate anyone. I think all should should how we indoctrinate our children.
I think that if the state continues to sponser educatio nand I think it should, then ALL should have the fairness. Now, liberal indoctrination is imposed on majority. So, credit vouchers are an answer.
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That is very important. Constitution was written before state sponsered education.
So, it is an inportant point that alot of intellectuals and leaders lost.
So, why did we let state control issue before of religion in education when that was not the founding fathers intent. The constitution has been misinterpreted and it is time we modity the unfairness in its interpretation.
If we state sponser education, then we neet to be inclusive in its distribution vs the argument that exclde the god folks. We should have credit vouchers...
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I refrained from saying so because that is not my style but when folks like you respond so jibberishly.. i really have to.
You have a tendency to misinterpret what others say... You put words into my mouth.. I doubt you know how I feel or think.
So shut up about about how I feel or think... and express yours and yours only and then maybe a little emotional maturity can be shown on your part.
I do not hate the labor movement nor state sponsered education ...and many other facts you distort. I choose not to respond to you because you says things I say i never say. I thnk it is called libel. Dont...is waht I say....
Dont put words in my mouth. You have no idea .. I do not hate state sponsered education, etc...how dare you misintrpret.
My point is that constitution was written before state sponsered educatio nand we include educatio nas a state function and attached seperatoion of reliion and stat education. My ppoint is that is not the law of the constitution in its original intent.
I actuall have no issue wuth state sponsered education but it should be fair. Use credit vouchers, All should be included in its distribution of payment. Now, the libers gety their indoctrination on young minds but I have to absorb burden of private or home scholl to include god in education. That is unfair and ist is a hot isssue in this country today.
I also give freechoice to all. Let all chho to use thir state dollars for education as they want.
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hey everyone, this forum caught my eye so i had a peak. i was never a believer in God, thought whatevers out there, something may exist. about a year and a half ago i had my eye opened to things i never considered before because of circumstances leading up that i wont get into...
anyway the first thing was someone handing me this book called how good is good enough by andy stanley. it rocked my thinking. Great short read: http://tinyurl.com/e7an3
originally our countries laws and every single thing we lived by were established by judo/christian beliefs, where else does law come from?
im not talking about bringing prayer or religion class into our public schools, and stuff and saying everyone must pray yatta yatta, no need for that, but the mindset of a lot of mainstream thought today is persecut christian ideals (like you cant say merry christmas or put up a manger display in front of your house or taking in God we trust off the dollar bill etc...) why are we trying to change where we're coming from?
why have God around? Socialist mindset of the new age and fidel castro is awesome! crazy if you ask me. sometimes i can't believe what im hearing and seeing what goes on in our country. Anyway, before it was "adopt" these judo/christian beliefs to give our country structure and value, that our country was founded on.
im saying all this from being someone ignorant and a persecuter of all faiths my entire life but never ever thinking i was...
no need for public prayer or agruing about that. but there is a need to examine where we are headed without a society that was once focused on Godly principles which helped shaped our nation.
posted
"originally our countries laws and every single thing we lived by were established by judo/christian beliefs, where else does law come from?"
That is a false and extremely misleading assumption that is used to justify attempts to skate round the First Amendment of the Condtitution.
Those so called "judo/christian beliefs" on which it is claimed our laws are based were essentially the same as the beliefs that ancient China used as its legal model centuries before there was a jew or christian. That seems a better place to say law comes from....at the very least it came centuries before; assuming. of course, it is necessary to have a begining for a basis of law.
This nation was formed to be "absent" any religious basis or influence; to not provide any influence on any religious belief; and it states so in the Constitution.
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nice to see you come over to off-topic juice....
human history did not begin in the year 01....
some things to ponder about the Framers of the Constitution before Pat Robertson and the right Reverand Falwell have you signing your kids inheritance over to them:
The Church and the Royalty of Europe were the two major political "parties" the people who settled the colonies came here to escape from... there was no election....
the Framers were trying to save US from the meddling of the churches... this is not a guess... those boys were serious... they didn't trust the organised religions... as a matter of fact? if you search thru our historical records? you will find no mention of Jesus whatsoever..... God is also not metioned ANYWHERE in the Constitiution...
my PERSONAL interpretation of Christs teachings is that he didn't trust organised religion either...
Robertson and Falwell don't like this.... these guys are dangerous... very dangerous...
IMO? they are nothing but pharisees (politicians) and money-changers
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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Falwell and Roberston? they are working hard to produce lawyers that support these new constitutional positions Bush has been taking.... check out their "universities"
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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nice bdgee thanks for that info you are right when you say the nation was formed to be absent any relgious basis etc etc no arguing that
but you have to think that everyone writing the constitution was of the majority christian were they not? so therefore our society dictated laws etc from those principles and beliefs. theres really no denying that. we have tried to change all this over time, but clearly our forefathers were deeply convicted by God when establishing a future plan for our government our laws and for the people of our nation...
ok, it wasn't until the early 1960's that prayer in public school was "outlawed" by a new interpretation of the USconstitution. In fact, the history of the US includes prayer and Bible readings in all sorts of public places, including schools. in 1782 congress passed the following resolution: "The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools."
now theres this guy william h mcguffey who is the author of the "McGuffey Reader", which was used for over 100 years in U.S. public schools with over 125 million copies sold until it was stopped in 1963. pres ab lincoln called him the "Schoolmaster of the Nation." mcguffey declared: christianity is the religion of our country. From it are derived our notions on the character of God, on the great moral Governor of the universe. On its doctrines are founded the peculiarities of our free institutions. From no source has the author drawn more conspicuously than from the sacred Scriptures. From all these extracts from the Bible I make no apology."
of the first 108 universities founded in America, 106 were distinctly Christian, including the first, Harvard University, chartered in 1636. In the original Harvard Student Handbook, rule number 1 was that students seeking entrance must know Latin and Greek so that they could study the Scriptures: "Let every student be plainly instructed and earnestly pressed to consider well, the main end of his life and studies is, to know God and Jesus Christ, which is eternal life, (John 17:3); and therefore to lay Jesus Christ as the only foundation of all sound knowledge and learning. And seeing the Lord only giveth wisdom, let every one seriously set himself by prayer in secret to seek it of him (Proverbs 2:3)."
ok so this leads into the whole seperation of church/state thingy. the supremecourt in 1892 gave what is known as the "Trinity Decision." In that decision the sup court declared, "this is a Christian nation." and it was john quincy adams who said, "the highest glory of the American Revolution was, it connected in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity."
the founders were definitely Christian (for the most part.) at least 90 to 95 percentage of them were practicing, Trinitarian Christians. This and the additional supporting evidence below show conclusively that the concern that motivated the framers to include the establishment clause in the constitution was definitely not fear of the doctrinal religion of christian theism. it was understood that christian theism was the default state doctrinal religion. as opposed to being something to fear, it was something believed to be vital to the success of our government.
consequently, the framers feared a state denominational religion not a state doctrinal religion! some additional evidences that indicate christian theism was the national doctrinal religion ive listed below...
over the Speaker of the House in the US capitol are the words "In God We Trust."
the Supreme Court building built in the 1930's has carvings of Moses and the Ten Commandments.
God is mentioned in stone all over Washington D.C., on its monuments and buildings.
As a nation, we have celebrated Christmas to commemorate the Savior's birth for centuries.
Oaths in courtrooms have invoked God from the beginning.
the founding fathers often quoted the Bible in their writings.
every president that has given an inaugural address has mentioned God in that speech.
prayers have been said at the swearing in of each president.
each president was sworn in on the Bible, saying the words, "So help me God."
our national anthem mentions God.
the liberty bell has a Bible verse engraved on it.
the original constitution of all 50 states mentions God.
chaplains have been in the public payroll from the very beginning.
our nations birth certificate, the Declaration of Independence, mentions God four times.
the Bible was used as a textbook in the schools.
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In previous posts various individuals have promoted the teaching of “general” religious studies in public schools. Religion isn’t in any way, general. It is a very specific belief system. How would you bridge Christianity with its teachings of Jesus along with the beliefs of the Jewish faith? Where are you going to throw in Muhammad and what about Buddhism? Are you going to teach the many gods of the Native Americans? What about all of the sub factions of these various religions? How do you determine what is a religion that will be taught? Some one made a disturbing statement a few posts back about determining it by the population of the students. I wonder how many of you Jesus freaks would be waving this banner if the school decided to teach a Muslim based faith. Sorry I don’t want my daughter being fitted for a suicide belt during gym class. I think all we have to do is take a look at the Middle East and see just why it is that we need to keep religion out of the public arena.
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I don't want anyones daughters or sons fitted with the trappings of any religion while at any school, particularly a school sactioned by the Constitution, that promisses that will not be done.
Religion is fundamentally radical and extreme. That is it's nature. Too often it is those indoctrinated by that radicalism that carries the madness to the next generation or the next country or the next county or town.
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i agree gblnking definetly im not for religion in schools. but why impose evolution on everyone, after all atheism is a form of religion is it not? if ur an atheist, u pretty much have to believe in evolution of man which is taught in public schools as complete fact. yes if ur an atheist you can be a skeptic agnositc whatever you want and never think about evolution, but teaching evolution eliminates God completely. so thats pretty much teaching a belief which = a religion.
after all JC never taught a religion he taught God existed and he had his proof. our teachers teach evolution existed and they have there proof. whos right, same concept no?
i believed evolution and all that because my teachers told me it was true, textbooks said so. and i became an atheist, and that was my "religion".
so, i say take em both out. don't cover topics that deal with the creation of man. i know me saying this won't change anything but im just saying it for the fun we are having in here:)
and whoever above said my man JC aint about religion anyway, you right brotha thats why hes so chill
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