posted
Just thought to add this topic for discussion. I feel we are in precarious times. The start of a new century and WW3 at the same time.
There are a n umber of threats that can destroy america or the world in this new century.
Here are some of mine. Share yours and respond mine if you like.
1) Islamic extremism - terrorism We are in ww3 and ultimately the world will be enveloped. Estreme Islam wants jihad against christinas and the infedels... Why do we not fight to win vs the limited ware we have waged? I feel fighlting limitly will threaten our survival. I also think fighting to win ..we will win. However, if we were to solve problems with a diff mentality that created this situation, then the american body politic would focus on solar energy, etc, no dependency on oil and no nee d to fight for oil...
2) North Korea - a nuclear North Korea?
3) Global warming - this is an earth problem and agian solar and alternative clean fuel would remove this threat.
4 Illegal aliens - Why do we permit so many to cross our border? this poses a thret for terrorists to enter but also for this society to foot the bill for mexico and its citizens. Why should we pay for illegals school and healthcare? This is a threat to our stability. My dad cane to this country legally and worked q6 hrs so he could give his kids education and bettter life. No welfare and no taking from sstem. Why do we allow Mexicans and others to come here illegally and bankrupt us? It is aself created problem but why doe the american politic accept it. I do not want to work for them. I work for my family.
5.Rcial tension in this country - Al lwhites do..blackcs cry discrimination and if we do not appease - riots.
that is so wrong. The europeans came to this country and worked for a better life vs demanding welfare or discrimination/. I will say there are now alot of blacks in miidddle and elite america that may soften this war. It is interesting, alot of black business i visited, have majority black employees.
6 econopmic inequality in world -
7. Keeping god out of our livrs. We need to support an america that has strong christian or god..good...values... The liberal left is harming usa....Religion should be kept out but Gd is who we are and if we let the minority rule and keep god out of schoold and our life then we lose america...Wh yare we leeting the minority shape this country? I say we americans are 95 + who beleive in god so why do we let the libeal left impose the minority view? Please remeber religion and god is not the same. Govt should not prescribe 1 religion but it should not deny our souls,,god...
Posts: 864 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Some of your thoughts are good. You might want to be careful of others of them as they simply sound like bigotry to anyone not of your leaning.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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There are private schools all over the place T-money. Send your kids to one of them if you want group prayer instilled as a virtue. Individual prayer is open in public schools. Be it to God, Allah, or Ganesh. Personally I like it better that way.
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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Andd yet couldn't see the contradiction when he insisted liberals were not conservatives.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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I believe religion should be taught in public schools. I have in mind a quarter long course highlighting the similarities between religion This class should be taught each year from say 1st grade on up.. Junior/Senior year could emphasise dangers of extremists. And BDGEE if I remember right you are a teacher so I'm assuming you are opposed to religious "indoctrination" but not liberal "indoctrination" that currently exists in many public schools.
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You need to read these threads before you jump in. That helps keep yer assumer atuned.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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Yes, you are confused. Certainly you must have misread and that leads to your faulty interpretation. No doubt, you can fix that.
After all, except for the idiocies of imagining dubya is honorable, honest, or intellectually competent, you seem not to be dim.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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Send your kids to private schools??? Have you checked the cost of private schools? I sent 2 of the kids to private schools...ready...1 school...all girls...catholic...$7300 a year...1 boy..all boys catholic school...$8200 a year... I have 7 children..do the math... Why do I need to have my kids go to a private school to be able to have them speak of God..or learn the beliefs this country were started on?
I need to send my kids to a private school because they were allowing "kids of minority" that were not in the district to attend the public school that was in our neighborhood...a neighborhood that was a very high tax district that I busted my a$$ by myself to pay for and have my kids get a good education and live some where safe...and yet...kids whose parents didn't give a rats behind and care for their children...got to go just because of the color of their skin?
If I lived within my means and lived in the lower end neighborhoods...my child would not have been able to go to the better school, in the better neighborhood...why? because "we" weren't a minority!
Now, after I have paid all this $ to keep my kids in safe surroundings...we don't qualify for any government help...for college Why? because of the color of our skin?
My disappopintment and "anger" isn't towards minorities...it's towards the government and the radicals that claim "..this is owed and that is owed to me or them..."
How are things suppose to be of "equal opportunity" if there is forever the asking of distuguishing between the races? I am not a "European American", I am an American! If you feel the need to put a prefix in front of American...then you shouldn't be granted the "American" benefits!
(Stepping down off the soap box now )
-------------------- #1 Rule: Protect your capital! #2 Rule: Never fall for the BS on the boards! Posts: 8890 | Registered: Jan 2006
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10,I have a real problem with labels on being any type of American......When an American gives his/her life for America or un-selfishly gives their life to save another, well, they don't do it because they are saving certain types of Americans..
Hero's come from a cross cut of Americans, and thats that.
Posts: 10729 | From: oregon | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
My big question is...why isn't Sunday morning service, Sunday night service, and Wednesday night bible group enough?
Why do you feel you need it inside the classroom too.
You seem a responsible adult 10.0. I am sure you have taught your kids your morals and have taken them to church regularily. What do you expect this prayer in schools to accomplish??
(For reference, you are speaking to a former P.K.)
Sas
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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I read 10s post to say it wasn't for the religious aspect of the Catholic schools she sent her kids there, but to provide them a "safe" place to learn. (I might question this need to protect kids from those she speaks of as "kids of minority", "whose parents didn't give a rats behind and care for their children...got to go just because of the color of their skin" and wonder if maybe that languaqge doesn't presuppose some character of these kids without warrant? Presuppose = prejudge = bias = bigotry?) I can well accept it is a heart felt concern if there is a serious question of safety, even if it is misplaced concern.
I certainly could have made thaat same mistake, Sasquatch, since 99 times out of a 100 the person speaking for a "need" for Government support of private schools is asking the Government to sanction the religious indoctrination of little children to his religious beliefs. They seems to be asking the Government to ignore the Constitution to me, though. (No, "seem" crap, they are without a doubt wanting the Government to ignore the Constitution.)
Somewhere, somehow, we have to get over this racial hatred. An assumption that it isn't "safe" where there are black kids (or poor kids or Mexican kids or white kids can never be corrected if generation after generation we keep them separated from us, whoever us is.
Oh, and I have no idea what a PK is, let along what it means to be a former one.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
I do send my kids to private and I cant continue because of the cost and more resources in public. Why should I as an american not have the choice? Why should I be forced to pay a high price for private or go public and have my kids be indoctrinated liberally?
Dont fool yourselves...we all have diff opinions which form a belief system..weall are indcoctrinated but our minds are powerful and flexible...you are free when you break all chains of indoctrination.
I dont understand why the liberal minority is winning in this country. Most beleive in a god...
Remember god and religion are different. We coould have religious education but a discusiin of all religions and some private silent prayer time.... Or give us credit vouchers so I can send my kids where I want. And lets see whether public would survive?? I can use them for public or private and the state doesnt sponser any particular one but I asa parent have a right to how I raise my kids.
I dont consider myself a bigot but I express my opinions.... Why is not the opposing view bigotry?
I support legal immigration where those that come have to earn therir way like our forfathers. I respect anyone who works for a living....
Life is not fair..but we have the tools to do the best.
This topic was meant to discuss all possible threats to America...and god out of our life is ONE.
Posts: 864 | Registered: Jun 2004
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"I dont consider myself a bigot but I express my opinions...."
Of course, you realize that, if you asked an honest opinion of a member of the clan, he will insist, and say honestly and sincerely, he is not a bigot, just an American patriot, wanting only to preeserve America's fundamental values and heritage.
"I respect anyone who works for a living...."
No, your incessant harangue of anything not in strict adherence with the far right wing religious extreme makes it clear you have no respect for anyone, working or not, that does not fit the mold of the far right religious extreme.
"We coould have religious education but a discusiin of all religions and some private silent prayer time...."
That already exists, except it isn't prayer time, it is private time for the kids to do with as they wish. (Some kids don't want to pray. Maybe they have studied and are prepared for the exam?)
"give us credit vouchers so I can send my kids where I want"
The State has already awarded you the cost of your kids education. You just want it to spend that money on your religious preferences, while preventing that amount to go to education that does not preach your religion. You ignore the fact that to do so is financing a religious movement, something expressly forbidden in the Constitution.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Reread the post bdgee...think you are right. I misread.
"There is a difference between God and religion." Damn straight. And thank God for that. Otherwise I would have a big problem with God. As it is I just have a big problem with the Christian "religion" not living up to its beliefs.
My view is not considered bigotry because it is inclusive T-money. It says...this is ok if you want to do it on your own...That is ok too. But we aren't going to tell ya you have to do it like this or like that.
The view you are defending is exclusive. This is the way it is. Get with the program or get out of the way.
Get it?
former P.K. (former pastor's kid) sorry bdgee, only the indoctrinated would know...should have clarified
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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If we all contribute to public funds for education then we all should choose the school of choice.
I rather indoctriante my kids to a belief in god then indoctrinate them to a secular society where god is not present. Either way, your way is not my way so I think we should have vouchers. What are you afraid off? I bet we would see alot of influx to private schools...
You can send your kids to a secualr schiool that indoctrinates in liberalism. Why should I indoctrinate my kids to your futile ways?
I think the majority in this country should demand we get our right back how we educate our kids vs some liberals telling us their bull****.
you can choose your godless existence but i will choose god as part of mine.
And, god should be apart of who weare...how we educacte our young.
The liberals got god out of school... I think now conservatives are no longer showing tolerance for their extremist view and fighting back.
Posts: 864 | Registered: Jun 2004
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We need more than just church services because not enough parents are taking their kids too church. Schools have taken over teaching sex ed and other health related issues because according to many schools "the parents are not teaching them at home". How many times have you heard schools say "Yes of course we feel it is best for the parents to teach children these things at home. But parents are not doing that. That is reality. So we need to teach them." Why not use the same thought process with religion? The constitution says "Congress shall make no law establishing a religion". Teaching religion in general while stressing common beliefs is in no way governemnt endorsement.
-------------------- Thanks Matto. Thanks Juice. Posts: 2945 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2006
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"Congress shall make no law establishing a religion". no that's not what the constitiution says...
this is a common misconception "put out" by the political arm of the "moral majority" it's Bull chit..
it says: Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
respecting: 1. To feel or show deferential regard for; esteem. 2. To avoid violation of or interference with: respect the speed limit. 3. To relate or refer to; concern.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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Ah...so it's not your kids John that you want to take to church. It is everyone else's? Don't cha think they should have a choice too bud?
I've been to christian "world religion" classes. Sounds very inclusive until you get there and they start pointing out all the foibles of the other religions consistantly. Which any christian will do as they come from a bias standpoint.
And T-money...if you are that concerned you would home school like so many others for whatever your reason. That ought to work out great.
My brother married a home schooler who's parents had been worried about the public school system.
Marriage didn't last two years.
They were getting along great until her parents decdied he wasn't as conservative as they thought he was when the two were dating. Used their authoritative teacher role to convince her that he was the devil. Given the amount of religious "indoctrination" authority they had over her it only took a few months.
My brother...the devil. My brother the church music director....the devil.
You can begin to see "part" of the reason why I don't have a lot of respect for the conservative movement.
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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if the Framers wanted it to read "no establishment of religion" they woulda said just that, they didn't....
they wanted the govt OUT of the religion business entirely.... nada... hence the specific use of the word RESPECTING... it's a very unusual word, with subtleties that go far and wide....
you aren't gonna teach MY kids YOUR religion...period, so get over it... move on...
Baptists call Catholics idolators for including Mary in their worship...
that's just one little problem with trying to have religion in public school...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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Oh...And T. I never once said God was not a part of my life.
He and I are very much in the same boat. Just not the same boat as the conservative right.
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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Which religious viewpoint do you want taught in public schools, T? The *ss clown Pat Robertson’s ideas? Maybe we can all petition Jim and Tammy to get back together and use theirs. Or better yet what about that televangelist who got caught diddling a prostitute and then cried to his audience that he sinned. Or best of all how about when the religious community shunned their own belief systems for “Intelligent Design” They traded in their beliefs in god for space aliens. How about if we stick to teaching our children Math, Sciences, Language skills, Geography, and History. We need to give our kids a leg up in this expanding world economy not a step back into isolationism.
Posts: 12 | From: Minnesota | Registered: Jun 2006
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Glassman- Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
respecting: 1. To feel or show deferential regard for; esteem. 2. To avoid violation of or interference with: respect the speed limit. 3. To relate or refer to; concern.
Where does it say that religion can't be taught? Nowhere. It says no specific religion can be taught. Why would you have a problem if every conceivable religion where taught in schools? With each class mandatory.
Sasquatch -That is correct Sasquatch I would like all children to have church schooling, not just mine. Not gonna back off on that. Also I'm not sure how you can paint millions of people's movement with the same brush because of an experience you had with two people from that group.
Jordan Reed/gblnking- Have you visited your child's school? Opinions are taught everyday. Beliefs trickle into every curriculum with the probable exception of math, spelling. Teaching the basics like we grew up with is a thing of the past. Just as grading students soon will be too.
It is real easy for some of you to talk about Jim and Tammy, Pat Robertson and all the others. How about your minister? Is he like Pat Robertson? Or is your minister the exception?
My brother, a minister, is the nicest most caring person, other than my mother, that I have ever met. He would not have a bad word to say about anyone. He also happens to have an IQ of 185.
Invite all of you to come visit me sometime. I'll take you out fishing with my brother. Haven't met any nice Christians?.... here's your chance. Can't guarantee you we'll catch anything, I rarely do.
God's true words are to love everyone regardless of race, creed, color, sexual orientation, nationality. You name it we are supposed to love them and except there sins. I think this world needs to hear a little more of that. Don't shout out the message because a small minority of the messengers have screwed things up.
-------------------- Thanks Matto. Thanks Juice. Posts: 2945 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2006
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I'm really sick of you intellectual jerkoffs preaching and teaching that the Constitution says anything other than what it says. Who granted to you the responsibility to change the wording to what you want it to say? You are all a bunch of nitwit educational failures, whose ideas about scholarship and intellectual integrity are absolutely vulgar. (Now, before you make the mistake of exclaiming on my usage of the word "vulgar", as you already have started planning to do, go look the word up in a proper reference so you can feel the real prod of my statement and get over living in the gutter.)
What you are is a clique of anit-American traitorous vermine leaching on the blood of our society. Your claims foul the purity of the most fundamental precepts of our Nation.
Isn't there some other Country that you would rather go to to live, that already ascribes to your wishes, where the teaching in schools is religious? What about some place in the Middle east? They all seem to cherish your desire to let religion dictate how and what the schools teach to children.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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Spoken with the vaunted liberal tolerance and open mindedness BDGEE! Where's the tolerance for other's opinions BDGEE? Aren't you guys the tollerant party? Or maybe you just dont fit in with the other liberals. Wait I thought it was the conservatives who stand accused of all the hate speech?
I see if we think differently than you than we have to leave the country.
Bunch of big words in there doesn't change the tone of your post BDGEE.
Religophobia in this country is getting very ugly and sadly way to acceptable.
No hard feelings BDGEE. Just think you got a little carried away there.
-------------------- Thanks Matto. Thanks Juice. Posts: 2945 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2006
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JW, how many Gods do people have?... how much time do you want to spend teaching religion to kids?
seriously? we need our kids to have high moral standards right?
there really is only one: Jesus taught it(as do others)... nobody is perfect, and you treat others as you wish to be treated yourself... you don't need religion to teach that at all...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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Where do you get the idea that you have any ability or right to declare what others are thinking or have done in their life?
How do you come by knowledge of the facts or the wisedom to chastise Glassman, Sasquatch, and Jordanreed, for actions for which you are clearly declaring them neglegent.
There is nothing in the Constitution that says that religion cannot be taught, but there certainly is something that says the Government cannot participate in such teaching. That means that in ANY Government "sanctioned" or Government "sponcered" school, there can be nothing taught "respecting an establishment of religion". That is, nothing respecting your religion, nothing respecting his or her religion, nothing respecting my religion, nothing respecting any religion, etc., and nothing respecting the trappings of any religion or the practice thereof.
Is that so difficult a concept? Of course not. So why are you so disrespectful of those that are not of your religion or do not choose to have their children (or any others) subjected to the indoctrination you propose?
Indoctrinate your children at home (not a Constitutionally granted right, by the way) and leave the children of the Nation free of that indoctrination.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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