Just thought to add this topic for discussion. I feel we are in precarious times. The start of a new century and WW3 at the same time.
There are a n umber of threats that can destroy america or the world in this new century.
Here are some of mine. Share yours and respond mine if you like.
1) Islamic extremism - terrorism We are in ww3 and ultimately the world will be enveloped. Estreme Islam wants jihad against christinas and the infedels... Why do we not fight to win vs the limited ware we have waged? I feel fighlting limitly will threaten our survival. I also think fighting to win ..we will win. However, if we were to solve problems with a diff mentality that created this situation, then the american body politic would focus on solar energy, etc, no dependency on oil and no nee d to fight for oil...
2) North Korea - a nuclear North Korea?
3) Global warming - this is an earth problem and agian solar and alternative clean fuel would remove this threat.
4 Illegal aliens - Why do we permit so many to cross our border? this poses a thret for terrorists to enter but also for this society to foot the bill for mexico and its citizens. Why should we pay for illegals school and healthcare? This is a threat to our stability. My dad cane to this country legally and worked q6 hrs so he could give his kids education and bettter life. No welfare and no taking from sstem. Why do we allow Mexicans and others to come here illegally and bankrupt us? It is aself created problem but why doe the american politic accept it. I do not want to work for them. I work for my family.
5.Rcial tension in this country - Al lwhites do..blackcs cry discrimination and if we do not appease - riots.
that is so wrong. The europeans came to this country and worked for a better life vs demanding welfare or discrimination/. I will say there are now alot of blacks in miidddle and elite america that may soften this war. It is interesting, alot of black business i visited, have majority black employees.
6 econopmic inequality in world -
7. Keeping god out of our livrs. We need to support an america that has strong christian or god..good...values... The liberal left is harming usa....Religion should be kept out but Gd is who we are and if we let the minority rule and keep god out of schoold and our life then we lose america...Wh yare we leeting the minority shape this country? I say we americans are 95 + who beleive in god so why do we let the libeal left impose the minority view? Please remeber religion and god is not the same. Govt should not prescribe 1 religion but it should not deny our souls,,god...
Posted by bdgee on :
thinkmoney,
Some of your thoughts are good. You might want to be careful of others of them as they simply sound like bigotry to anyone not of your leaning.
Posted by Sasquatch on :
There are private schools all over the place T-money. Send your kids to one of them if you want group prayer instilled as a virtue. Individual prayer is open in public schools. Be it to God, Allah, or Ganesh. Personally I like it better that way.
Posted by bdgee on :
I could never understand why anyone wants to indoctrinate their kids before they are sophisticated enough to make a decision of their own.
Hmmmm? On second thought, maybe I do see why.
Posted by glassman on :
Ganesh, now there is a cool God...
an elephant riding a mouse... that's some real physics going on there... Posted by Relentless on :
the duplicity of Shiva is kind of catchy
Posted by glassman on :
yup DQR, Art often posted that God and the Devil were the same...
Posted by bdgee on :
Andd yet couldn't see the contradiction when he insisted liberals were not conservatives.
Posted by Johnwayne on :
I believe religion should be taught in public schools. I have in mind a quarter long course highlighting the similarities between religion This class should be taught each year from say 1st grade on up.. Junior/Senior year could emphasise dangers of extremists. And BDGEE if I remember right you are a teacher so I'm assuming you are opposed to religious "indoctrination" but not liberal "indoctrination" that currently exists in many public schools.
Posted by bdgee on :
You need to read these threads before you jump in. That helps keep yer assumer atuned.
Posted by Johnwayne on :
BDGEE- Your statement is an endorsement of indoctrination? I guess you heve me somewhat confused right now. Not unusual for me I'm afraid.
Posted by bdgee on :
Yes, you are confused. Certainly you must have misread and that leads to your faulty interpretation. No doubt, you can fix that.
After all, except for the idiocies of imagining dubya is honorable, honest, or intellectually competent, you seem not to be dim.
Posted by 10of13 on :
Send your kids to private schools??? Have you checked the cost of private schools? I sent 2 of the kids to private schools...ready...1 school...all girls...catholic...$7300 a year...1 boy..all boys catholic school...$8200 a year... I have 7 children..do the math... Why do I need to have my kids go to a private school to be able to have them speak of God..or learn the beliefs this country were started on?
I need to send my kids to a private school because they were allowing "kids of minority" that were not in the district to attend the public school that was in our neighborhood...a neighborhood that was a very high tax district that I busted my a$$ by myself to pay for and have my kids get a good education and live some where safe...and yet...kids whose parents didn't give a rats behind and care for their children...got to go just because of the color of their skin?
If I lived within my means and lived in the lower end neighborhoods...my child would not have been able to go to the better school, in the better neighborhood...why? because "we" weren't a minority!
Now, after I have paid all this $ to keep my kids in safe surroundings...we don't qualify for any government help...for college Why? because of the color of our skin?
My disappopintment and "anger" isn't towards minorities...it's towards the government and the radicals that claim "..this is owed and that is owed to me or them..."
How are things suppose to be of "equal opportunity" if there is forever the asking of distuguishing between the races? I am not a "European American", I am an American! If you feel the need to put a prefix in front of American...then you shouldn't be granted the "American" benefits!
(Stepping down off the soap box now )
Posted by Johnwayne on :
Hey BDGEE- at least you didn't call me short, or bald! Your description of me is better than my wifes! I can live with that.
Posted by Blue Marlin on :
10,I have a real problem with labels on being any type of American......When an American gives his/her life for America or un-selfishly gives their life to save another, well, they don't do it because they are saving certain types of Americans..
Hero's come from a cross cut of Americans, and thats that.
Posted by Sasquatch on :
My big question is...why isn't Sunday morning service, Sunday night service, and Wednesday night bible group enough?
Why do you feel you need it inside the classroom too.
You seem a responsible adult 10.0. I am sure you have taught your kids your morals and have taken them to church regularily. What do you expect this prayer in schools to accomplish??
(For reference, you are speaking to a former P.K.)
Sas
Posted by bdgee on :
Sasquatch,
If I didn't misread, I think you did.
I read 10s post to say it wasn't for the religious aspect of the Catholic schools she sent her kids there, but to provide them a "safe" place to learn. (I might question this need to protect kids from those she speaks of as "kids of minority", "whose parents didn't give a rats behind and care for their children...got to go just because of the color of their skin" and wonder if maybe that languaqge doesn't presuppose some character of these kids without warrant? Presuppose = prejudge = bias = bigotry?) I can well accept it is a heart felt concern if there is a serious question of safety, even if it is misplaced concern.
I certainly could have made thaat same mistake, Sasquatch, since 99 times out of a 100 the person speaking for a "need" for Government support of private schools is asking the Government to sanction the religious indoctrination of little children to his religious beliefs. They seems to be asking the Government to ignore the Constitution to me, though. (No, "seem" crap, they are without a doubt wanting the Government to ignore the Constitution.)
Somewhere, somehow, we have to get over this racial hatred. An assumption that it isn't "safe" where there are black kids (or poor kids or Mexican kids or white kids can never be corrected if generation after generation we keep them separated from us, whoever us is.
Oh, and I have no idea what a PK is, let along what it means to be a former one.
Posted by thinkmoney on :
I do send my kids to private and I cant continue because of the cost and more resources in public. Why should I as an american not have the choice? Why should I be forced to pay a high price for private or go public and have my kids be indoctrinated liberally?
Dont fool yourselves...we all have diff opinions which form a belief system..weall are indcoctrinated but our minds are powerful and flexible...you are free when you break all chains of indoctrination.
I dont understand why the liberal minority is winning in this country. Most beleive in a god...
Remember god and religion are different. We coould have religious education but a discusiin of all religions and some private silent prayer time.... Or give us credit vouchers so I can send my kids where I want. And lets see whether public would survive?? I can use them for public or private and the state doesnt sponser any particular one but I asa parent have a right to how I raise my kids.
I dont consider myself a bigot but I express my opinions.... Why is not the opposing view bigotry?
I support legal immigration where those that come have to earn therir way like our forfathers. I respect anyone who works for a living....
Life is not fair..but we have the tools to do the best.
This topic was meant to discuss all possible threats to America...and god out of our life is ONE.
Posted by glassman on :
I dont understand why the liberal minority is winning in this country. Most beleive in a god...
winning?
i'm sorry? they are winning? get your head out of the sand and look at who is in office...
i'm sorry, but you have been taken to the cleaners by the "moral" "majority" of which i can see clearly is neither moral nor a majority....
Posted by bdgee on :
"I dont consider myself a bigot but I express my opinions...."
Of course, you realize that, if you asked an honest opinion of a member of the clan, he will insist, and say honestly and sincerely, he is not a bigot, just an American patriot, wanting only to preeserve America's fundamental values and heritage.
"I respect anyone who works for a living...."
No, your incessant harangue of anything not in strict adherence with the far right wing religious extreme makes it clear you have no respect for anyone, working or not, that does not fit the mold of the far right religious extreme.
"We coould have religious education but a discusiin of all religions and some private silent prayer time...."
That already exists, except it isn't prayer time, it is private time for the kids to do with as they wish. (Some kids don't want to pray. Maybe they have studied and are prepared for the exam?)
"give us credit vouchers so I can send my kids where I want"
The State has already awarded you the cost of your kids education. You just want it to spend that money on your religious preferences, while preventing that amount to go to education that does not preach your religion. You ignore the fact that to do so is financing a religious movement, something expressly forbidden in the Constitution.
Posted by Sasquatch on :
Reread the post bdgee...think you are right. I misread.
"There is a difference between God and religion." Damn straight. And thank God for that. Otherwise I would have a big problem with God. As it is I just have a big problem with the Christian "religion" not living up to its beliefs.
My view is not considered bigotry because it is inclusive T-money. It says...this is ok if you want to do it on your own...That is ok too. But we aren't going to tell ya you have to do it like this or like that.
The view you are defending is exclusive. This is the way it is. Get with the program or get out of the way.
Get it?
former P.K. (former pastor's kid) sorry bdgee, only the indoctrinated would know...should have clarified
Posted by bdgee on :
Hey, thanks, Sasquatch. I'da never ever guessed it was pastor's kid.
Posted by thinkmoney on :
If we all contribute to public funds for education then we all should choose the school of choice.
I rather indoctriante my kids to a belief in god then indoctrinate them to a secular society where god is not present. Either way, your way is not my way so I think we should have vouchers. What are you afraid off? I bet we would see alot of influx to private schools...
You can send your kids to a secualr schiool that indoctrinates in liberalism. Why should I indoctrinate my kids to your futile ways?
I think the majority in this country should demand we get our right back how we educate our kids vs some liberals telling us their bull****.
you can choose your godless existence but i will choose god as part of mine.
And, god should be apart of who weare...how we educacte our young.
The liberals got god out of school... I think now conservatives are no longer showing tolerance for their extremist view and fighting back.
Posted by Johnwayne on :
We need more than just church services because not enough parents are taking their kids too church. Schools have taken over teaching sex ed and other health related issues because according to many schools "the parents are not teaching them at home". How many times have you heard schools say "Yes of course we feel it is best for the parents to teach children these things at home. But parents are not doing that. That is reality. So we need to teach them." Why not use the same thought process with religion? The constitution says "Congress shall make no law establishing a religion". Teaching religion in general while stressing common beliefs is in no way governemnt endorsement.
Posted by glassman on :
"Congress shall make no law establishing a religion". no that's not what the constitiution says...
this is a common misconception "put out" by the political arm of the "moral majority" it's Bull chit..
it says: Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
respecting: 1. To feel or show deferential regard for; esteem. 2. To avoid violation of or interference with: respect the speed limit. 3. To relate or refer to; concern.
Posted by Sasquatch on :
Ah...so it's not your kids John that you want to take to church. It is everyone else's? Don't cha think they should have a choice too bud?
I've been to christian "world religion" classes. Sounds very inclusive until you get there and they start pointing out all the foibles of the other religions consistantly. Which any christian will do as they come from a bias standpoint.
And T-money...if you are that concerned you would home school like so many others for whatever your reason. That ought to work out great.
My brother married a home schooler who's parents had been worried about the public school system.
Marriage didn't last two years.
They were getting along great until her parents decdied he wasn't as conservative as they thought he was when the two were dating. Used their authoritative teacher role to convince her that he was the devil. Given the amount of religious "indoctrination" authority they had over her it only took a few months.
My brother...the devil. My brother the church music director....the devil.
You can begin to see "part" of the reason why I don't have a lot of respect for the conservative movement.
Posted by glassman on :
if the Framers wanted it to read "no establishment of religion" they woulda said just that, they didn't....
they wanted the govt OUT of the religion business entirely.... nada... hence the specific use of the word RESPECTING... it's a very unusual word, with subtleties that go far and wide....
you aren't gonna teach MY kids YOUR religion...period, so get over it... move on...
Baptists call Catholics idolators for including Mary in their worship...
that's just one little problem with trying to have religion in public school...
Posted by jordanreed on :
arent public schools supposed to teach facts?
belief in a god is nothing more than that..
a belief..
I dont need schools teaching my son a belief or opinion..
He is intelligent enough to form his own
Posted by Sasquatch on :
Oh...And T. I never once said God was not a part of my life.
He and I are very much in the same boat. Just not the same boat as the conservative right.
Posted by gblnking on :
Which religious viewpoint do you want taught in public schools, T? The *ss clown Pat Robertson’s ideas? Maybe we can all petition Jim and Tammy to get back together and use theirs. Or better yet what about that televangelist who got caught diddling a prostitute and then cried to his audience that he sinned. Or best of all how about when the religious community shunned their own belief systems for “Intelligent Design” They traded in their beliefs in god for space aliens. How about if we stick to teaching our children Math, Sciences, Language skills, Geography, and History. We need to give our kids a leg up in this expanding world economy not a step back into isolationism.
Posted by Johnwayne on :
Glassman- Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
respecting: 1. To feel or show deferential regard for; esteem. 2. To avoid violation of or interference with: respect the speed limit. 3. To relate or refer to; concern.
Where does it say that religion can't be taught? Nowhere. It says no specific religion can be taught. Why would you have a problem if every conceivable religion where taught in schools? With each class mandatory.
Sasquatch -That is correct Sasquatch I would like all children to have church schooling, not just mine. Not gonna back off on that. Also I'm not sure how you can paint millions of people's movement with the same brush because of an experience you had with two people from that group.
Jordan Reed/gblnking- Have you visited your child's school? Opinions are taught everyday. Beliefs trickle into every curriculum with the probable exception of math, spelling. Teaching the basics like we grew up with is a thing of the past. Just as grading students soon will be too.
It is real easy for some of you to talk about Jim and Tammy, Pat Robertson and all the others. How about your minister? Is he like Pat Robertson? Or is your minister the exception?
My brother, a minister, is the nicest most caring person, other than my mother, that I have ever met. He would not have a bad word to say about anyone. He also happens to have an IQ of 185.
Invite all of you to come visit me sometime. I'll take you out fishing with my brother. Haven't met any nice Christians?.... here's your chance. Can't guarantee you we'll catch anything, I rarely do.
God's true words are to love everyone regardless of race, creed, color, sexual orientation, nationality. You name it we are supposed to love them and except there sins. I think this world needs to hear a little more of that. Don't shout out the message because a small minority of the messengers have screwed things up.
Posted by bdgee on :
I'm really sick of you intellectual jerkoffs preaching and teaching that the Constitution says anything other than what it says. Who granted to you the responsibility to change the wording to what you want it to say? You are all a bunch of nitwit educational failures, whose ideas about scholarship and intellectual integrity are absolutely vulgar. (Now, before you make the mistake of exclaiming on my usage of the word "vulgar", as you already have started planning to do, go look the word up in a proper reference so you can feel the real prod of my statement and get over living in the gutter.)
What you are is a clique of anit-American traitorous vermine leaching on the blood of our society. Your claims foul the purity of the most fundamental precepts of our Nation.
Isn't there some other Country that you would rather go to to live, that already ascribes to your wishes, where the teaching in schools is religious? What about some place in the Middle east? They all seem to cherish your desire to let religion dictate how and what the schools teach to children.
Posted by Johnwayne on :
Spoken with the vaunted liberal tolerance and open mindedness BDGEE! Where's the tolerance for other's opinions BDGEE? Aren't you guys the tollerant party? Or maybe you just dont fit in with the other liberals. Wait I thought it was the conservatives who stand accused of all the hate speech?
I see if we think differently than you than we have to leave the country.
Bunch of big words in there doesn't change the tone of your post BDGEE.
Religophobia in this country is getting very ugly and sadly way to acceptable.
No hard feelings BDGEE. Just think you got a little carried away there.
Posted by glassman on :
JW, how many Gods do people have?... how much time do you want to spend teaching religion to kids?
seriously? we need our kids to have high moral standards right?
there really is only one: Jesus taught it(as do others)... nobody is perfect, and you treat others as you wish to be treated yourself... you don't need religion to teach that at all...
Posted by bdgee on :
Johnwayne,
Where do you get the idea that you have any ability or right to declare what others are thinking or have done in their life?
How do you come by knowledge of the facts or the wisedom to chastise Glassman, Sasquatch, and Jordanreed, for actions for which you are clearly declaring them neglegent.
There is nothing in the Constitution that says that religion cannot be taught, but there certainly is something that says the Government cannot participate in such teaching. That means that in ANY Government "sanctioned" or Government "sponcered" school, there can be nothing taught "respecting an establishment of religion". That is, nothing respecting your religion, nothing respecting his or her religion, nothing respecting my religion, nothing respecting any religion, etc., and nothing respecting the trappings of any religion or the practice thereof.
Is that so difficult a concept? Of course not. So why are you so disrespectful of those that are not of your religion or do not choose to have their children (or any others) subjected to the indoctrination you propose?
Indoctrinate your children at home (not a Constitutionally granted right, by the way) and leave the children of the Nation free of that indoctrination.
Posted by glassman on :
Bush first annoyed me with his plans to make tax dollars available to faith based organizations...
i really thought he was just buying votes from Falwell and Roberts...
that was the first thing he said that made me question his faithfulness to the constitution...
he has since shown himself to be no respecter of the constitution... and quite disingenuous when he discusses his attitude about how to "interpret" the constitution...
Posted by Johnwayne on :
Where does it say government cannot teach religion? All forms of religion without showing preference to one in particular?
Real understanding of religion will solve every conceivable problem.
Posted by glassman on :
providing public education is required by law right?
you can't require anybody to go to religious class...
if someone chooses to go to another school? they can teach religion there...
but? it is required by law that children go to school...
if you use tax dollars to provide religious education you have written the laws that collect and distribute those taxes... that is also where Bush's faith based funding initiatives will eventually be struck down as unconstitutional...
wait till somebody sues because one Church group gets more money than some other...
Posted by rimasco on :
quote:Originally posted by Johnwayne: Where does it say government cannot teach religion? All forms of religion without showing preference to one in particular?
Real understanding of religion will solve every conceivable problem.
Sounds accurate....Democrats are so militant these days....I LOVE IT.
As for me, im swinging over to the middle even if IT IS a waste of time
Posted by bdgee on :
"Real understanding of religion will solve every conceivable problem."
You ought to try that yourself.
Posted by Ramius on :
quote:Originally posted by Sasquatch: Ah...so it's not your kids John that you want to take to church. It is everyone else's? Don't cha think they should have a choice too bud?
I've been to christian "world religion" classes. Sounds very inclusive until you get there and they start pointing out all the foibles of the other religions consistantly. Which any christian will do as they come from a bias standpoint.
That's too bad about the marriage not lasting...sounds like her parents hung on real tight even after she left their nest.
And T-money...if you are that concerned you would home school like so many others for whatever your reason. That ought to work out great.
My brother married a home schooler who's parents had been worried about the public school system.
Marriage didn't last two years.
They were getting along great until her parents decdied he wasn't as conservative as they thought he was when the two were dating. Used their authoritative teacher role to convince her that he was the devil. Given the amount of religious "indoctrination" authority they had over her it only took a few months.
My brother...the devil. My brother the church music director....the devil.
You can begin to see "part" of the reason why I don't have a lot of respect for the conservative movement.
Posted by rimasco on :
Dems should take a good look at the foundation of this country and quit skewing the constitution to their advantage. For the foundation will be all thats left when there done with their "evolving ideals"
Posted by bdgee on :
Looks to me like you cut too many English classes in Jr high and can't comprehend the language too pretty good, boy.
The Constitution has stood well on its language for a long time, in spite of those misreadings and misquotes you foster. When it says "no" that is what it means, not some wishy-washy interpretation that allows religion to be forced on the people by the Government because of some self centered self important evangelical group that won't bother to learn to read.
Posted by glassman on :
the foundation of the country looks like broken treaties and lies to some people
Posted by Johnwayne on :
BDGEE- How do you feel about some trying to ban guns?
Posted by jordanreed on :
religion is taught in church... isnt that enough??
Posted by rimasco on :
LoL as a matter of fact i did cut alot of classes in jr high and i barley graduated H.S. because of that as well. Good thing my net worth forced me into early retirement at 30yrs old. Leaves me all the time in the world to chat with DOUCHE-BAGS on message boards!
I shoulda went to college instead of trading....I coulda became a cop with all those creditsssssss!
Posted by jordanreed on :
nice,pleasant, responce
Posted by Johnwayne on :
Hey Jordan - are the walleye still biting up there? Are the weeds burnt off? I've had a heck of a year walleye fishing down here.
Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by Johnwayne: BDGEE- How do you feel about some trying to ban guns?
You are again on the verge of making assumptions and pronouncements that are unwarranted.
Posted by jordanreed on :
hey john...wish i knew... havent fished yet this year.. been golfin in my spare time, which is alot lately Posted by rimasco on :
quote:Originally posted by bdgee:
quote:Originally posted by Johnwayne: BDGEE- How do you feel about some trying to ban guns?
You are again on the verge of making assumptions and pronouncements that are unwarranted.
I believe it is you that is making the assumption of him making assumptions. He asked a simple question. Stop gettin all Dennis Miller on him and answer it!
Posted by glassman on :
i think gun control is a tight group Posted by Johnwayne on :
Thanks Rim- Couldn't figure out how a question get's turned into an assumption on my part. If I assume something I don't need to ask a question about it.
Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by rimasco:
quote:Originally posted by bdgee:
quote:Originally posted by Johnwayne: BDGEE- How do you feel about some trying to ban guns?
You are again on the verge of making assumptions and pronouncements that are unwarranted.
I believe it is you that is making the assumption of him making assumptions. He asked a simple question. Stop gettin all Dennis Miller on him and answer it!
No one needs you butting in with what you think is witicism, particulrly when you are confused about what is going on.
Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by Johnwayne: Thanks Rim- Couldn't figure out how a question get's turned into an assumption on my part. If I assume something I don't need to ask a question about it.
You may be beginning to understand after all.
Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: i think gun control is a tight group :D
Yep.....breathing easy....
Posted by rimasco on :
quote:Originally posted by bdgee:
quote:Originally posted by glassman: i think gun control is a tight group
Yep.....breathing easy....
LMAO.....Yeah and a large portion of them own them.
Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by rimasco:
quote:Originally posted by bdgee:
quote:Originally posted by glassman: i think gun control is a tight group :D
Yep.....breathing easy....
LMAO.....Yeah and a large portion of them own them.
Marksmanship may be an elusive topic to some, it seems.
Posted by glassman on :
maybe he can hit this:
Bush can't.....
Posted by Johnwayne on :
I love to fish but can't hit the broad side of a barn with a gun. If you line up 10 cans from 10 feet away I would hit 0.
Posted by glassman on :
i like rifles, low calibre high velocity....
Posted by bdgee on :
I'm a scatter gunner.....a damned good one too.
Posted by Johnwayne on :
I did shoot a tv once. Now that was something
Posted by Relentless on :
Big bore hand cannons.. the only way to go. Desert eagle .50
Posted by thinkmoney on :
yes..i can choos home school or private..Howver that is not the point.
As an american I pay tax dollars and should educate my kids how I want vs the liberal state sponsered. Whether you call it religion or another way,,liberalism..both are belief systmes and one shoud not supersede another. currently, we let liberalism in our schools.. the mionority way and i say enuff. Wh yshould I have a double burden..We all pay taxes so I feel we all have a right to chhose how we educate our children. Right now the public schools indocrinate our kids to a secular society whereas society is 90+ believes in God.
How did we let that happen??
I also am researching a topic which really is disturbing...
The constitution may say seperation of religion and state ..not gpd and state.
But even more disturbing...the constitution was written in 1787????Back then education wasmajority home schools...the state did not have ownership " to education.. the constitution was written before ownership of state sponsered education...
Seoeration of state and religion no way in original docmument menat education of young....
Back then education was not state owned so education was private. When the state took "ownership" of education for benefit of society ....later liberal defined it seperatio nof state and religion.,
Biggest falacy in history..
I am writing news media to this...
I say vouchers and let parents use those vouchers for school of choice tha supports their values.. Again..I bet an influx to private...
Posted by glassman on :
When the state took "ownership" of education for benefit of society ....later liberal defined it seperatio nof state and religion.,
sorry TM.... few actually got an education..
many had to work... farm work or factory work....
education was state sponsored for the benefit of the state..why?
more education? more income, more income? more taxes.....
believe me, you don't want to go backwards from where we are now in terms of education...
it wasn't that long ago that high school was a big accomplishment
Posted by bdgee on :
"yes..i can choos home school or private..Howver that is not the point."
That's BS! That option is the only point.
What you want is to leave poor families that have no options but the public schools with a curriculum that requires they submit to your dogma, so that their kids will become trapped in your religion like caged animals, even though that may be quite contrary to their parents wishes.
And let's get rid of any absurd claim that giving you money on the side for you to send your kids to a religious school is just or equal. It is just a scam to divert that money from the public schools so you can holler they aren't as good as private schools.
I'll tell you bluntly, from a lifetime of teaching students that went to all manner of schools beforehand, overall, those from private religious schools are the weakest and those from private non-religious schools are only marginally better.
You are not researching, you are spreading dogma, most of which is lies and all of which is hateful.
Yes, public education did not show up 'til way past the time of the Constitution. I hate to explain the facts to you, but, if it had been left to those of your ilk, it wouldn't have come about ever. As it was, the force that brought public education to the U.S., thereby setting it up to become the most powerful nation on Earth, was a force you hate and despise, the labor movement. You may want to thank Samuel Gompers, first and foremost for bringing us public education. It was liberal thinking (liberal in the academic theater, not the political)that created the idea of public schools, you see.
It iseducation, not indoctrination, which is what you advocate. It is there to teach children how to think, not what to think. Simply because it doesn't accept dictation from your religion does not make it liberal politically. Posted by glassman on :
As it was, the force that brought public education to the U.S., thereby setting it up to become the most powerful nation on Earth, was a force you hate and despise, the labor movement. You may want to thank Samuel Gompers, first and foremost for bringing us public education. It was liberal thinking (liberal in the academic theater, not the political)that created the idea of public schools, you see.
good point bdgee...
i'm always amused that people claim dem good ole ways was better...
we had this thing called a DEPRESSION.... so they started social security an a few other liberal programs to avoid having one AGAIN...
Posted by T e x on :
and dem durn Meskins dilutin the public schools with "spic Ainglish" No 'Spic inglish" no spickey both! and paying into SocSec with no hope of getting any back on fake numbers yet being available for war when we need bodies and nobody unnerstands why feds won't shut down borders and local communities beginning to bill Mexico or make Colorado laws and Savage Nation says compare to Bush? Clinton was a dang good conservative and meantime everybody rubs their faces and says "WTF Happened?"
Posted by glassman on :
had to bring up the illegals huh Tex?
i thought i was bad watching Fox news to figure out how bad it is...
but Savage? whew! that man has some bad vibes coming outa there h'aint he?
Posted by Sasquatch on :
quote:Originally posted by Ramius:
That's too bad about the marriage not lasting...sounds like her parents hung on real tight even after she left their nest.
[/QB]
Thanks Ramius.
It wasn't the first thing that made me question the motives and results of coservatitve christian thinking but it was the example that most impacted my life.
After that happened my brother didn't feel he could be an effective leader at the church with a failed marriage in front of their eyes.
He now works sixty hours a week managing a coffee store.
A waste of a good man with a good heart.
Posted by bdgee on :
Of course, this is a sham, since the guy speaks Meskin like a native, which he durn near was, but it should titalate the republicans.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: had to bring up the illegals huh Tex?
i thought i was bad watching Fox news to figure out how bad it is...
but Savage? whew! that man has some bad vibes coming outa there h'aint he?
surfin'...on the way in from the job...nearly pulled over, lol...
Posted by bdgee on :
Anytime some TV program promisses a session with Dean about this current bunch, I clear the calander so I can attend.
Posted by glassman on :
yeah, hard to believe we've gotten worse than watergate huh?
[ July 11, 2006, 23:52: Message edited by: glassman ]
Posted by bdgee on :
No, it isn't hard to believe.
I've seen dubya in action since way before he was Texas governor and known he is fundamentally a crook.
His time in the White house was going to be a collection of jerks that intended to lie and steal and try to displace the Constitution, because they are that kind of people. dubya was always a failure at any honest or honorable endevor, but excelled in collecting a cadre of crooks and cheating and stealing, then lying about it later.
Posted by glassman on :
Cheat At Online Poker Learn How to Make $750 A Day Posted by john wayne on :
Bdgee - You said to me: "Where do you get the idea that you have any ability or right to declare what others are thinking or have done in their life?"
You than proceed to do the exact thing you accuse me of. Repeatedly. See for yourself.
"What you want is to leave poor families that have no options but the public schools with a curriculum that requires they submit to your dogma, so that their kids will become trapped in your religion like caged animals, even though that may be quite contrary to their parents wishes. " - Bdgee to Think Money
"You are not researching, you are spreading dogma, most of which is lies and all of which is hateful." - Bdgee to Think Money
"Looks to me like you cut too many English classes in Jr high and can't comprehend the language too pretty good, boy. - Bdgee to Rimasco
The Constitution has stood well on its language for a long time, in spite of those misreadings and misquotes you foster. When it says "no" that is what it means, not some wishy-washy interpretation that allows religion to be forced on the people by the Government because of some self centered self important evangelical group that won't bother to learn to read." - Bdgee to Rimasco
"It iseducation, not indoctrination, which is what you advocate. It is there to teach children how to think, not what to think. Simply because it doesn't accept dictation from your religion does not make it liberal politically." - Bdgee to Think Money
"I certainly could have made thaat same mistake, Sasquatch, since 99 times out of a 100 the person speaking for a "need" for Government support of private schools is asking the Government to sanction the religious indoctrination of little children to his religious beliefs. They seems to be asking the Government to ignore the Constitution to me, though. (No, "seem" crap, they are without a doubt wanting the Government to ignore the Constitution.)" - Bdgee to Sasquatch apparently referring to 99% of those wanting religion taught in schools
"No, your incessant harangue of anything not in strict adherence with the far right wing religious extreme makes it clear you have no respect for anyone, working or not, that does not fit the mold of the far right religious extreme." - Bdgee to Think Money
"You are all a bunch of nitwit educational failures, whose ideas about scholarship and intellectual integrity are absolutely vulgar..... What you are is a clique of anit-American traitorous vermine leaching on the blood of our society...... Isn't there some other Country that you would rather go to to live, that already ascribes to your wishes, where the teaching in schools is religious? What about some place in the Middle east? They all seem to cherish your desire to let religion dictate how and what the schools teach to children." -Bdgee to....every Christian on earth?
Again you accuse me of "declaring what other's think" and than make the comments above. Don't alot of your comments sound like declaring what others are thinking?
Those who live in glass houses...... Bdgee!
Posted by glassman on :
damn JW you spent alot of time colating all those quotes....
Posted by john wayne on :
You'd think he'd have the common sense to not publically do the same thing he accuses me of. Over and over again. Everybody trips up once in a while but my God. Hell with him it's just right out there in the open. It's just blatant.
Posted by glassman on :
what the heck happened to your post count? you changed something?
Posted by john wayne on :
I have a new home computer so I now actually post from three different computers. I was at home and forgot my password, so I just re-registered and put an extra space in my screen name so I could keep John Wayne. Surprisingly that worked.
Posted by glassman on :
now wait just a minute, there is only one John Wayne !!!!
we have an imposter here.... Posted by Sasquatch on :
Get the tar and feathers!!!
Posted by Blue Marlin' on :
Get a Rope
Posted by bdgee on :
john wayne,
You are clearly not bothering to pay attention to what I said. I don't assume from absolutely nothing that someone thinks the opposite of how I do, which is what you do. I take what someone has said and extend and extrapolate that to the absurd that it is. That is a deliberate and practiced analysis.
Almost everything you have quoted is taken out of context and most is in direct response to some specific claim or announcement. Most are statements of fact, not assumptions.
You have a habit of declaring someone thinks in some way you vilify in a question that opens a discussion. Questions that you seem to begins as "Since you believe (some disgusting or by you proported to be disgusting thing) how do you........", when there is no prior evidence to justifying an assumption that the person holds such a belief.
Instead of announcing others are evil or think evilly as an introduction to a subject, then demanding they justify it, why not ask what they believe rather than assuming it to suit your bent? Understand that many times you are going to get told what you want to believe is wrong, such as you notion that you have some understanding of my political leanings.
Politically speaking, understand I am disgusted with this bunch of theives and crooks that is in Washington claiming to be repulicans and I am equally disgustewd with any that back them up in any way. This country is in serious danger of ceasing to be a democracy, due to the idiots and sheep that condone this bunch and their rape of the Constitution.
Posted by Johnwayne on :
BDGEE- Most of your statements are factual? A few are but most is a big stretch. You are factual about labor, constitution and a few others but most of your posts on this thread have just seemed angry and that anger distracts from your ideas. Take a look back at your posts and look for facts, not opinions. Feel free to paste what you feel are facts.
Also please cut and paster where I do this:"You have a habit of declaring someone thinks in some way you vilify in a question that opens a discussion. Questions that you seem to begins as "Since you believe (some disgusting or by you proported to be disgusting thing) how do you........", when there is no prior evidence to justifying an assumption that the person holds such a belief."
And please paste examples of this: "Instead of announcing others are evil or think evilly as an introduction to a subject, then demanding they justify it, why not ask what they believe rather than assuming it to suit your bent" ....I tried that when I asked your thoughts on the second ammendment. You than accused me of making assumptions. You are a teacher Bdgee.... you know the things you are wfiting are hurtful and anger filled. I'm not sure extrapolating makes it ok but I guess I can live with it now that I know that's what your doing. Rush does the same thing. Let's see if we can figure out where we're coming from than we can understand eachother a little better.
Posted by bdgee on :
JW,
You are a member of the flock of the RNC and nothing else. You play by the rules they taught you and have no concern for fact or reason, just worship of the Party. Truth isn't part of the plan by which you play.
Posted by thinkmoney on :
You should read what a person says before responding so unitelligently...
I do not care what others do. I said ... 1). all religions honored depending in student population ans silent prayer
2). more importamtly< i support credit vouchers. You use yours for public education. I use mine for private. All use the vouchers how they want. So, before you respond jibberishly..read...and dont misinterpret.
Thats why I ususally ignore your posts because you talk AT vs discuss.
I dont care to force indoctrinate anyone. I think all should should how we indoctrinate our children.
I think that if the state continues to sponser educatio nand I think it should, then ALL should have the fairness. Now, liberal indoctrination is imposed on majority. So, credit vouchers are an answer.
Posted by thinkmoney on :
That is very important. Constitution was written before state sponsered education.
So, it is an inportant point that alot of intellectuals and leaders lost.
So, why did we let state control issue before of religion in education when that was not the founding fathers intent. The constitution has been misinterpreted and it is time we modity the unfairness in its interpretation.
If we state sponser education, then we neet to be inclusive in its distribution vs the argument that exclde the god folks. We should have credit vouchers...
Posted by thinkmoney on :
Bdgee ...you are an idiot.
I refrained from saying so because that is not my style but when folks like you respond so jibberishly.. i really have to.
You have a tendency to misinterpret what others say... You put words into my mouth.. I doubt you know how I feel or think.
So shut up about about how I feel or think... and express yours and yours only and then maybe a little emotional maturity can be shown on your part.
I do not hate the labor movement nor state sponsered education ...and many other facts you distort. I choose not to respond to you because you says things I say i never say. I thnk it is called libel. Dont...is waht I say....
Dont put words in my mouth. You have no idea .. I do not hate state sponsered education, etc...how dare you misintrpret.
My point is that constitution was written before state sponsered educatio nand we include educatio nas a state function and attached seperatoion of reliion and stat education. My ppoint is that is not the law of the constitution in its original intent.
I actuall have no issue wuth state sponsered education but it should be fair. Use credit vouchers, All should be included in its distribution of payment. Now, the libers gety their indoctrination on young minds but I have to absorb burden of private or home scholl to include god in education. That is unfair and ist is a hot isssue in this country today.
I also give freechoice to all. Let all chho to use thir state dollars for education as they want.
Posted by juice on :
hey everyone, this forum caught my eye so i had a peak. i was never a believer in God, thought whatevers out there, something may exist. about a year and a half ago i had my eye opened to things i never considered before because of circumstances leading up that i wont get into...
anyway the first thing was someone handing me this book called how good is good enough by andy stanley. it rocked my thinking. Great short read: http://tinyurl.com/e7an3
originally our countries laws and every single thing we lived by were established by judo/christian beliefs, where else does law come from?
im not talking about bringing prayer or religion class into our public schools, and stuff and saying everyone must pray yatta yatta, no need for that, but the mindset of a lot of mainstream thought today is persecut christian ideals (like you cant say merry christmas or put up a manger display in front of your house or taking in God we trust off the dollar bill etc...) why are we trying to change where we're coming from?
why have God around? Socialist mindset of the new age and fidel castro is awesome! crazy if you ask me. sometimes i can't believe what im hearing and seeing what goes on in our country. Anyway, before it was "adopt" these judo/christian beliefs to give our country structure and value, that our country was founded on.
im saying all this from being someone ignorant and a persecuter of all faiths my entire life but never ever thinking i was...
no need for public prayer or agruing about that. but there is a need to examine where we are headed without a society that was once focused on Godly principles which helped shaped our nation.
the future looks pretty whacky.
anyway great discussions!
Posted by bdgee on :
"originally our countries laws and every single thing we lived by were established by judo/christian beliefs, where else does law come from?"
That is a false and extremely misleading assumption that is used to justify attempts to skate round the First Amendment of the Condtitution.
Those so called "judo/christian beliefs" on which it is claimed our laws are based were essentially the same as the beliefs that ancient China used as its legal model centuries before there was a jew or christian. That seems a better place to say law comes from....at the very least it came centuries before; assuming. of course, it is necessary to have a begining for a basis of law.
This nation was formed to be "absent" any religious basis or influence; to not provide any influence on any religious belief; and it states so in the Constitution.
Posted by glassman on :
nice to see you come over to off-topic juice....
human history did not begin in the year 01....
some things to ponder about the Framers of the Constitution before Pat Robertson and the right Reverand Falwell have you signing your kids inheritance over to them:
The Church and the Royalty of Europe were the two major political "parties" the people who settled the colonies came here to escape from... there was no election....
the Framers were trying to save US from the meddling of the churches... this is not a guess... those boys were serious... they didn't trust the organised religions... as a matter of fact? if you search thru our historical records? you will find no mention of Jesus whatsoever..... God is also not metioned ANYWHERE in the Constitiution...
my PERSONAL interpretation of Christs teachings is that he didn't trust organised religion either...
Robertson and Falwell don't like this.... these guys are dangerous... very dangerous...
IMO? they are nothing but pharisees (politicians) and money-changers
Posted by bdgee on :
"Robertson and Falwell don't like this.... these guys are dangerous... very dangerous...
IMO? they are nothing but pharisees (politicians) and money-changers"
Mostly they are interested in changing money from your pocket to theirs, a most acceptable honorable American passtime. So?
Posted by glassman on :
Falwell and Roberston? they are working hard to produce lawyers that support these new constitutional positions Bush has been taking.... check out their "universities"
Posted by juice on :
nice bdgee thanks for that info you are right when you say the nation was formed to be absent any relgious basis etc etc no arguing that
but you have to think that everyone writing the constitution was of the majority christian were they not? so therefore our society dictated laws etc from those principles and beliefs. theres really no denying that. we have tried to change all this over time, but clearly our forefathers were deeply convicted by God when establishing a future plan for our government our laws and for the people of our nation...
ok, it wasn't until the early 1960's that prayer in public school was "outlawed" by a new interpretation of the USconstitution. In fact, the history of the US includes prayer and Bible readings in all sorts of public places, including schools. in 1782 congress passed the following resolution: "The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools."
now theres this guy william h mcguffey who is the author of the "McGuffey Reader", which was used for over 100 years in U.S. public schools with over 125 million copies sold until it was stopped in 1963. pres ab lincoln called him the "Schoolmaster of the Nation." mcguffey declared: christianity is the religion of our country. From it are derived our notions on the character of God, on the great moral Governor of the universe. On its doctrines are founded the peculiarities of our free institutions. From no source has the author drawn more conspicuously than from the sacred Scriptures. From all these extracts from the Bible I make no apology."
of the first 108 universities founded in America, 106 were distinctly Christian, including the first, Harvard University, chartered in 1636. In the original Harvard Student Handbook, rule number 1 was that students seeking entrance must know Latin and Greek so that they could study the Scriptures: "Let every student be plainly instructed and earnestly pressed to consider well, the main end of his life and studies is, to know God and Jesus Christ, which is eternal life, (John 17:3); and therefore to lay Jesus Christ as the only foundation of all sound knowledge and learning. And seeing the Lord only giveth wisdom, let every one seriously set himself by prayer in secret to seek it of him (Proverbs 2:3)."
ok so this leads into the whole seperation of church/state thingy. the supremecourt in 1892 gave what is known as the "Trinity Decision." In that decision the sup court declared, "this is a Christian nation." and it was john quincy adams who said, "the highest glory of the American Revolution was, it connected in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity."
the founders were definitely Christian (for the most part.) at least 90 to 95 percentage of them were practicing, Trinitarian Christians. This and the additional supporting evidence below show conclusively that the concern that motivated the framers to include the establishment clause in the constitution was definitely not fear of the doctrinal religion of christian theism. it was understood that christian theism was the default state doctrinal religion. as opposed to being something to fear, it was something believed to be vital to the success of our government.
consequently, the framers feared a state denominational religion not a state doctrinal religion! some additional evidences that indicate christian theism was the national doctrinal religion ive listed below...
over the Speaker of the House in the US capitol are the words "In God We Trust."
the Supreme Court building built in the 1930's has carvings of Moses and the Ten Commandments.
God is mentioned in stone all over Washington D.C., on its monuments and buildings.
As a nation, we have celebrated Christmas to commemorate the Savior's birth for centuries.
Oaths in courtrooms have invoked God from the beginning.
the founding fathers often quoted the Bible in their writings.
every president that has given an inaugural address has mentioned God in that speech.
prayers have been said at the swearing in of each president.
each president was sworn in on the Bible, saying the words, "So help me God."
our national anthem mentions God.
the liberty bell has a Bible verse engraved on it.
the original constitution of all 50 states mentions God.
chaplains have been in the public payroll from the very beginning.
our nations birth certificate, the Declaration of Independence, mentions God four times.
the Bible was used as a textbook in the schools.
Posted by gblnking on :
In previous posts various individuals have promoted the teaching of “general” religious studies in public schools. Religion isn’t in any way, general. It is a very specific belief system. How would you bridge Christianity with its teachings of Jesus along with the beliefs of the Jewish faith? Where are you going to throw in Muhammad and what about Buddhism? Are you going to teach the many gods of the Native Americans? What about all of the sub factions of these various religions? How do you determine what is a religion that will be taught? Some one made a disturbing statement a few posts back about determining it by the population of the students. I wonder how many of you Jesus freaks would be waving this banner if the school decided to teach a Muslim based faith. Sorry I don’t want my daughter being fitted for a suicide belt during gym class. I think all we have to do is take a look at the Middle East and see just why it is that we need to keep religion out of the public arena.
Posted by glassman on :
GOD, not Jesus is mentioned throughout our govt....
too many people truly do not understand some of the critical, but fine distinctions between the Christian sects... much less other faiths...
Posted by gblnking on :
Somehow I'm betting it would be a short jump to go from God to a more specific belief.
Posted by glassman on :
juice, you just pulled that list right off the right Reverand Falwells desk.....
these guys ain't worried about your soul...
it's power they want...
power over you...
IMO? these guys are no better than the ayatolahs
Posted by bdgee on :
Good post, gblnking.
I don't want anyones daughters or sons fitted with the trappings of any religion while at any school, particularly a school sactioned by the Constitution, that promisses that will not be done.
Religion is fundamentally radical and extreme. That is it's nature. Too often it is those indoctrinated by that radicalism that carries the madness to the next generation or the next country or the next county or town.
Posted by juice on :
i agree gblnking definetly im not for religion in schools. but why impose evolution on everyone, after all atheism is a form of religion is it not? if ur an atheist, u pretty much have to believe in evolution of man which is taught in public schools as complete fact. yes if ur an atheist you can be a skeptic agnositc whatever you want and never think about evolution, but teaching evolution eliminates God completely. so thats pretty much teaching a belief which = a religion.
after all JC never taught a religion he taught God existed and he had his proof. our teachers teach evolution existed and they have there proof. whos right, same concept no?
i believed evolution and all that because my teachers told me it was true, textbooks said so. and i became an atheist, and that was my "religion".
so, i say take em both out. don't cover topics that deal with the creation of man. i know me saying this won't change anything but im just saying it for the fun we are having in here:)
and whoever above said my man JC aint about religion anyway, you right brotha thats why hes so chill
Posted by bdgee on :
Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: "but you have to think that everyone writing the constitution was of the majority christian were they not?"
No you don't. And if you would bother to read what those extremely well educated men thought themselves about what was and was not a god, you would cure yourself of that nonsense all together.
You probably, like so many that want to justify overstepping the Constitutional limits on religion, like to quote Eienstein's statement that "God doesn't play dice with the universe" as a claim that he was religious. He was not in any way you call religion. Consider his statement that he didn't believe in a "personal" god and remember his natural language was German. What he meant was that his belief did not accept any god that made personal choices or has wishes and makes judgements (good or bad ones...or consideration of such qualities)........that included the Christian and Jewish gods that "want" and demand adoration.
The rest of your last post is just drivel and chatter from the radical right wing extreme.
Posted by glassman on :
but why impose evolution on everyone, after all atheism is a form of religion is it not?
has it ever occurred to you that evolution is how God really works...
or?
that Creation is still happening right NOW?
Posted by Johnwayne on :
Juice or anybody- "in 1782 congress passed the following resolution: "The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools."
Any idea how many of the framers of the constitution where in congress in 1782? Would be interesting to see how they voted.
Can anybody look that up?
Posted by glassman on :
JW.... ask that again after trading hours if it hasn't been answered yet... i'll try to find something then..
Posted by juice on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: juice, you just pulled that list right off the right Reverand Falwells desk.....
lol im not a big fan of the reverand!! i was just backin up our history:)
belief is selfless humble, no need for all that cash and authority. true christianity is really concerned only with the "souls" of others and showing humility and love. no lining pockets, when your in it for selfish ambition it aint cool. im not saying that thats what hes in it for, i actually don't even know much about him or his friends. theres too many peter pop-offs out there to keep track of! anyone ever here of that guy?? mr. peter pop-off? man, talk about bad news. ugly
Posted by bdgee on :
Such a resolution is not a law, does not reach the status of a "Bill", and is not a statement that Congress approved of establishing (or even recognizing) Christianity as an acceptable religion, which I'm certain even Congress realized was contrary to the Constitution, even back then.
Congres often has passed bills, not just resolutions, that had to be stricken as unconstitutional. It happend in 1782 and does today.
And for what did Congress in 1782 recommend and approve the Holy Bible for use in what school and for what purpose? Perhaps it was as a reader or comparitive religion study (availability of any book was limited to the schools then and, often, any available book was put to use).
Posted by juice on :
quote:Originally posted by bdgee:
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: "but you have to think that everyone writing the constitution was of the majority christian were they not?"
No you don't. And if you would bother to read what those extremely well educated men thought themselves about what was and was not a god, you would cure yourself of that nonsense all together.
You probably, like so many that want to justify overstepping the Constitutional limits on religion, like to quote Eienstein's statement that "God doesn't play dice with the universe" as a claim that he was religious. He was not in any way you call religion. Consider his statement that he didn't believe in a "personal" god and remember his natural language was German. What he meant was that his belief did not accept any god that made personal choices or has wishes and makes judgements (good or bad ones...or consideration of such qualities)........that included the Christian and Jewish gods that "want" and demand adoration.
The rest of your last post is just drivel and chatter from the radical right wing extreme.
interesting, good stuff:) i just believe there is more evidence to support these dudes were actually christians, but i get what your saying with einstein and all that makes sense great point, cool man thanks:) im also not extreme im just bored at the moment.
great discussions this is much more fun then listening to people bicker about stocks and yelling at each other...
Posted by glassman on :
bdgee?
you have to acknowledge thatmost organised education, until recently, was SUPPLIED by religious groups...
that IMO is not a justification for saying it should be in the public school system...
the Bible was (and may still be) the most printed book ever.... it's been available to teach children to read when nothing was....
Posted by bdgee on :
juice,
BE WARNED!!!!
Discussion of religion (or politics or whatever) here can be an enjoyable and rewarding academic exercise, but there are those who can not or will not consider the logical consequences of their beliefs and have been known (apparantly via compute hacking)to launch viscious personal attacks on other posters away from here.
Posted by juice on :
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: And for what did Congress in 1782 recommend and approve the Holy Bible for use in what school and for what purpose? Perhaps it was as a reader or comparitive religion study (availability of any book was limited to the schools then and, often, any available book was put to use).
maybe they believed it. after all it has the most support by being the most documented source of information in history, naming persons places things and actually events that did exist. so i would say they would be really smart to include it. last i heard the new testament alone has about 25,000 ancient manuscripts discovered and archived so far. 2nd to that is Homers iliad, with 643 copies of manuscript support discovered to date. no brainer
Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: bdgee?
you have to acknowledge thatmost organised education, until recently, was SUPPLIED by religious groups...
that IMO is not a justification for saying it should be in the public school system...
the Bible was (and may still be) the most printed book ever.... it's been available to teach children to read when nothing was....
Yes, I have so considered the bible. Perhaps I faild in my attempt, but that was supposed to be the drift of my post that begins with "Such a resolution is not a law...."
Posted by juice on :
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: juice,
BE WARNED!!!!
Discussion of religion (or politics or whatever) here can be an enjoyable and rewarding academic exercise, but there are those who can not or will not consider the logical consequences of their beliefs and have been known (apparantly via compute hacking)to launch viscious personal attacks on other posters away from here.
woah thats messed up im ready i could use a good hack. once i crashed google for 40 minutes only using a mouse with no keyboard on a pentium 1 processor and only 128 mb of ram and 2ghz of power hhaha beat that
Posted by bdgee on :
Hmmmmmm????
Intending to speak of the bible, you say, ".... being the most documented source of information in history....". I understand what you are intending to say, but.....
I think that is one of those misconceptions that lives the same sort of life as does an "urban legand". Quite careful research places the geometic studies of the ancient Babolonians, Greeks, and Egyptians, who recieve reference in almost every language, everywhere, throughout written history, (absent the written efforts of New World pre-Columbian cultures) in the position of being the most referenced, I believe. Almost no people on Earth fail to include, in their common everyday vocabulary, reference to the geometric objects creted and results by those studies, even if the speakers have no notion where they come from.
But I accept your statement so long as it relates to modern popular culture.
Posted by gblnking on :
Somebody somewhere show me some factual, tangible, real evidence of God. Without using any emotion, any blind faith, or any metaphores. And for that matter anything that isn't explained by science. Maybe the bible has a lot of factual dates and places but so does a history book ,where is the petrified feathers of an angel? God and religion are personal beleifs and faith. What God means to you isn't necessarily what it means to me, so how can it possibly be taught in school without a very real bias? If you want to teach morales then champion bringing back good civics courses in schools but leave God where it should be. In the home and the heart.
Posted by Johnwayne on :
Glassman- I'll try to remember. Thanks for your help. I need to try and make some money now.
Posted by glassman on :
Somebody somewhere show me some factual, tangible, real evidence of God.
the best i can do on that is this:
Perfection....
where did we ever get the concept? Posted by thinkmoney on :
Show you proof and evidence of god?
Lif is mystical not logical.
We have science and humanity well but only a glimpse into reality of life.
proof = science and mathematics...bnoth valuable but not life. life is more than science or thinking..
life is in the spiritual realm..we live in the physcical and all disciplines are only a part of existence.
show me proof? some beleive in god..others know in heart...others deny. truth is in the heart..
we are co-creators so all we think is our creatio nand our reality. change our perception and we change reality. so what we beleive is what is color blineded reality.
show me evidence...I have on evidence nor do i have peoof but i rather die on error of believing then err on not believing.
For me ..i do not beleive ..I know god exists.. I see god in all...in my children..in all the love there is in this existential [plane..on nature..in yopur kind words..god is all and all of life and beyond life.
I may not know truth to why but iKnow truth there is. I exist .. I am and I breath and I gave life...I made a healthy womb for my children but i have not the power to bring forht life. It is thru god life is brought into this world..
Evidence? Prooof? That is scientificand a partial vey minute part of life explanation. go beyond the head and into your heart...
Truth lies in the heart..if you search for the truth..I say without doubt you will find it.
God is all around in the physical..in nature and in all goodness of life..but if you open ayour heart and go beyond the physical then yo can know god.
show me prooof god dont exist..
Bit, honestly i am beyond that. I need no proof..I have al ltruth in my heart as does anyone.
It is interesting to know lkife is as you think and create. In the end...what really matters in life>? in this physical plane? Is it your fortune or your fame or your corvette or you bein right? For me it is only LOVE that matters. God is love... If you have ever loved anyone then you have come close to the god feeling. Love is all good..
Those that say theylove and are hateful then that is not love. Love does not judge and love conquers any emotion. Love is all powerful and can win in any situation.
Give me proof of god...yOur heart is your proof... But your heat is the closest anyone can know god for you are the essence of god.
Posted by T e x on :
Proof?
lol, that's why God created mirrors...
Posted by Relentless on :
now that was nice tex
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
God is a Liberal. Discuss.
LOL
Posted by Arthur Claude Munyan Sr. on :
MODERN DAY VAMPIRES:
The other night I was watching one of my favorite movie classics on television.
Dracula.
As many times that I have seen this movie before, I always come away with a new insight or revelation I did not have before.
This time was no different.
When I saw Count Dracula cringe and back away from the crucifix, I was struck with a modern day parallel of today.
It is a parallel that can be made from virtually any other vampire story. Upon the very sight of a crucifix, the vampire cringes and recoils.
Why is this? There is only one metaphorical interpretation.
The crucifix is a symbol of righteousness. A righteousness which originates not from man, nor from the secular humanism it has wrought.
It is a holy righteousness. A righteousness that manifests from God.
The vampire, being infested and driven by the forces of darkness, cannot withstand the divine purity which emanates from a symbol of holiness.
When the forces of darkness are confronted with the forces of good, the forces of darkness recoil and are ultimately defeated.
This is a spiritual law. One which shall ultimately be consummated.
Today, our socio-political landscape is a vast battlefield where we are witnessing a great war between two ideological camps.
The liberals and the conservatives.
It is a war which is intertwined with the spiritual warfare which will be ultimately decided in our favor.
On the political front, this war is being led by the moral and spiritual leadership of our very courageous President and Commander-In-Chief, George W. Bush.
Many persons of a liberal persuasion are literally possessed with an intense and irrational hatred of President Bush. It is a possession of near demonic proportions.
To them, President Bush can do no right. They constantly impugn his motives with our war against terrorism and Iraq, falsely accusing him of plundering for oil and being driven by his father's approval.
And now, in spite of their lack of proof, they are accusing him of lying to the American people in regard to our good and noble motives for invading Iraq.
President Bush is a man of God. The righteousness that drives this man is a Godly righteousness.
For the liberals, however, it is a righteousness which they reject. As a result, they are blinded from receiving the spiritual enlightenment they so desperately need and prevented from receiving the blessings they provide.
The liberals believe it is they who are enamored with righteousness. However, it is only their self made righteousness. The righteousness of fools.
Many liberals also boast of their intellect. But it is the intellect of imbeciles.
The liberals of today are our modern day vampires in our flesh. Their very existence is driven by their need to suck the blood from the arteries of truth and corrupt the righteousness which flows therein.
As the vampire recoils from the sight of a crucifix, the liberal recoils from righteousness. They cringe from the wisdom of the conservative truths which can bring them deliverance from their delusions.
There is another parallel. Vampires are unable to see their reflections in a mirror. Accordingly, the liberals are unable to see themselves for who they truly are.
Reflection requires light. The liberals shun the light. Therefore, the liberals are denied from the very self revelations their reflections could bring.
Many liberals sound like wolves howling at the moon when ranting about the sacred value of the freedom of expression they seem to believe is the precious birthright of all mankind.
Yet, their howlings become even louder when they hear the expression of ideas they find intolerable. So much so that I am also reminded of some of the werewolf movies I have seen.
Bearing their fangs, their intolerance can become so intense that they even threaten censorship and legal action against the very expression of these ideas.
Take a look at how so many liberals are trying to make "hate speech" a crime. If such speech truly exists, then we already have enough laws on the books to handle any actual crimes which may emerge thereof.
As a Sunday School teacher, I often sum up my lessons in two words.
God Wins.
And so, it shall come to pass, the righteousness of God will also prevail.
Our glorious and victorious military campaign in Iraq is a sign of things to come.
In the meantime, let us continue to do our part. For we are all soldiers. Spiritual soldiers engaged in a spiritual war.
As conservatives, the values and beliefs we hold dear shall prevail. Go forth and carry them as your shields. For they are like armor. An armor from God.
Carry them also as your crucifixes. If your faith is pure, the liberal vampires who cross your paths will cringe and recoil.
Keep your faith. For the forces of evil and liberalism shall ultimately be defeated.
God Bless President Bush.
God Bless America.
Amen.
Arthur Claude Munyan, Sr.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
DWE lives again!
Posted by T e x on :
spiritual soldiers who condone slapping girls around?
Posted by Sasquatch on :
So...I've iggy'd this poor excuse for a persona. Does that mean I don't have to suffer his posts or does it mean he can't PM me? Never been clear on that and until now didn't care one way or the other.
Sas
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
just means he won't be able to pm you...
Posted by Sasquatch on :
Pity. Oh well. I'll just practice selective reading. Posted by Dustoff 1 on :
where is the glassmans pic of Putin scolding dumb dumb..
Posted by Dustoff 1 on :
go to------> "Israeli troops move into Gaza"
page 8 post time is 00:36 hrs. pic is there.
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
"Last time I'm going to tell you.. Seen.. NOT heard."
Posted by glassman on :
"and if i catch you holding hands with that Sheik again? we are thru, understand?"
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
"You are such an ahole.. I told you I was going to wear the blue one"
Posted by Johnwayne on :
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