posted
glad to see you are back wallymac... your posts are right on target as usual...
that's the way i read the issuing of shares rules too... the SEC should determine if any shareholder has been hurt by the issue, to determine if any action would be needed....
the carbon credit issue is a NON-issue at this time..
funny how Rufus has been quoted as being the new owner of ecowood... he isn't...
i find it amusing that there are still so many negative posts with just plain false information...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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Can't be done CB- MM's have too much information, you can't galvanize 100's of people to do the work of even one MM- it'd be a logistical nightmare.
On an ethical basis, it just shouldn't be done. You just have to believe that, in time, the market, supply and demand and the will of the company will take care of everything. And if you don't then, this might not be the place for you.
quote:Originally posted by cbbush: Read my earlier post Tex. If the MMs can manipulate, why can't we. If this stock and its management is truly what we believe in, then let's put our money where our mouths are and manipulate the stock in our favor. I don't know how the MMs manipulate, but there seems to be a lot of people on this board that does. So let's come up with a plan of action. Let's do something other than sit back on our laurels.
Posts: 949 | From: Little Rock, AR | Registered: Dec 2005
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Bilgert -- what do you mean "this might not be the place for me?" Because I want to take action, fight fire with fire, fight for my financial well-being? Is what the MMs are doing illegal or just unethical?
Okay, let's say that ethically it shouldn't be done. But why wouldn't all of us who have a financial stake in this company and believe in its leadership and believe it will be $7 or even much higher be buying and accumulating stock in between $1 and $3 which would create an uptick? The higher the price on COB 10/30 the better, right?
Posts: 106 | Registered: Oct 2006
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Yeah Wally- as you point out, there are any number of scenarios in which Rufus could get around or satisfy Rule 10-17B.
If he even plans to request an exemption, you gotta imagine that the issue of increased valuation (book value) and the naked shorting issue would constitute a big part of any argument he presents. How the SEC views and subsequently rules on his argument- who knows. To me at least, this is uncharted water.
Since we are privy to neither Rufus' or the SEC's point of view at this time, we can only surmise. But as you point out my man, there are so many hoops- and so much we don't know. The story is just starting, I suppose.
Posts: 949 | From: Little Rock, AR | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by cbbush: Read my earlier post Tex. If the MMs can manipulate, why can't we. If this stock and its management is truly what we believe in, then let's put our money where our mouths are and manipulate the stock in our favor. I don't know how the MMs manipulate, but there seems to be a lot of people on this board that does. So let's come up with a plan of action. Let's do something other than sit back on our laurels.
so basically, you don't know...right?
You're a fan of the stock, and willing to play..
nutting wrong widdat...lol--lottsa folks in your shoes...
But if you wanna do it, find somebody with a few million bucks. Don't do it through here. This is a board intended for DD and used to discuss and interpret the market, not group plays.
quote:Originally posted by cbbush: Bilgert -- what do you mean "this might not be the place for me?" Because I want to take action, fight fire with fire, fight for my financial well-being? Is what the MMs are doing illegal or just unethical?
Okay, let's say that ethically it shouldn't be done. But why wouldn't all of us who have a financial stake in this company and believe in its leadership and believe it will be $7 or even much higher be buying and accumulating stock in between $1 and $3 which would create an uptick? The higher the price on COB 10/30 the better, right?
Posts: 949 | From: Little Rock, AR | Registered: Dec 2005
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Tex -- A wise man doesn't have to have all the answers, he should just know where to find them. I thought this might be the place. I'm a fan of making money, and I am not a pacifist willing to concede. But, no one can do it alone and no I don't have the knowledge in this arena to lead, but I have the capital to be a part of the team.
Posts: 106 | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by cbbush: Read my earlier post Tex. If the MMs can manipulate, why can't we. If this stock and its management is truly what we believe in, then let's put our money where our mouths are and manipulate the stock in our favor. I don't know how the MMs manipulate, but there seems to be a lot of people on this board that does. So let's come up with a plan of action. Let's do something other than sit back on our laurels.
Cbbush our best manipulation tactic is not to sell or flip our shares. Its as simple as that.
In previous threads we have had list upon list of who to send letters to concerning naked shorting of stock. Collectively we sent thousands of letters to be sure.
I am open to any plan of action that helps a corrupt market. Fire away.
This is why I believe strongly in CSHD! Rufus wants the corruption and manipulation to end too and is doing things seasoned traders have never seen before to suppoert traders
Perhaps just being a long in CSHD and not giving them your shares helps this cause.
Posts: 6410 | Registered: Jul 2006
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Naked shorts, IMO, when there is low volume stock involved would leave an evident paper trail to a restricted activity when it comes to a penny stock.
Restrictions "There are many restrictions on the size, price and types of stocks you are able to short sell. For example, you can't short sell penny stocks and most short sales need to be done in round lots.
In addition, the SEC, NYSE and NASD have rules preventing short selling unless the last trade of the stock is at the same or higher price (known as an uptick or zero plus tick). These rules exist so that investors can't sell short in a declining market. Continuous short selling on a falling stock will keep forcing it down, damaging the market further."
So has anyone done DD in discovering what brokers have an inventory of CSHD and allowing shorts? This should be all over the SEC radar screen. And I will not buy into the excuse that this is one of thousands or the stock is to small to monitor.
Posts: 106 | Registered: Oct 2006
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Short Selling: Ethics and the Role of Short Selling
It's safe to say that short sellers aren't the most popular people on Wall Street. Many investors see short selling as "un-American" and "betting against the home team." Some hold short sales as a major cause of market downturns, such as the crash in 1987. There isn't a whole lot of evidence to support this, as other factors such as derivatives and program trading also played a massive role. Still, regulators have introduced rules that make it more difficult for short sales to push a market downward. We already mentioned one of these regulations, the uptick rule, where a short is prevented unless a stock is trading up.
On the other hand, it's tough to deny that short selling makes an important contribution to the market. It provides liquidity, drives down overpriced securities, and generally increases the efficiency of the markets. Short sellers are often the first line of defense against financial fraud. While the conflicts of interest from investment banking keeps some analysts from giving completely unbiased research, work from short sellers is often regarded as being some of the most detailed and highest quality research in the market. Its been said that short sellers actually prevent crashes because they provide a voice of reason during raging bull markets.
However, short selling also has a dark side, courtesy of a small number of traders who are not above using unethical tactics to make a profit. Sometimes referred to as the "short and distort," this technique takes place when traders manipulate stock prices in a bear market by taking short positions and then using a smear campaign to drive down the target stocks. This is the mirror version of the "pump and dump," where crooks buy stock (take a long position) and issue false information that causes the target stock's price to increase. Short selling abuse like this has grown with the advent of the Internet and the growing trend of small investors and online trading. For more information on this, check out our article entitled: "The Short and Distort, Stock Manipulation in a Bear Market."
Aren't we in a bull market?
Posts: 106 | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by rburnout: Amazing that you guys are still talking about this coming share issuance...which cannot happen in the expected time frame, for two reasons......No A/S change notification has occurred, and it must, as has been posted before, referencing the SEC rules. Look it up.
And, SEC Rule 10b-17 DOES apply, with no 10 day notice given, as this share issuance is NOT exempted from that rule.
Regardless, you all can say it isn't dilution or a forward split, but the market will determine the share price, The notice that Rufus has given is irrlevant as to share value....same as has been the case all along.
I find more of where they can do it..than where they can't...
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by rburnout: Seems no one has conclusively shown that it isn't applicable. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Conclusively shown it? No..can you conclusively show that they can't?
2.3 Merger consideration (c) In the event the Buyer changes the number of shares of the Buyer's Stock issued and outstanding prior to the Effective Time as a result of a stock split, stock dividend or other distribution payable in Buyer's Stock or securities convertible into Buyer's Stock or similar recapitalization with respect to such stock or effects a reclassification, combination or other change with respect to Buyer's Stock (each a "Stock Adjustment" ) and the record date therefore (in the case of a stock dividend) or the effective date thereof (in the case of a stock split or similar recapitalization, reclassification or combination for which a record date is not established) shall be prior to the Effective Time.
5.3 Buyers stock
a) The authorized capital stock of the Buyer consists of 200,000,000 shares of common stock, $.001 par value per share, of which 62,157,721 shares are issued and outstanding as of the date of this Agreement, and except for such shares, there are no shares of capital stock of the Buyer outstanding. There are options see Exhibit D (" FHAL Financials" ). In addition, there are 10,000,000 shares of capital stock reserved under the Fronthaul Group Inc. Compensation Plan for Outside Direct
Doesn't this sentence here... The Surviving Holdings Company shall use its reasonable best efforts to obtain any regulatory approvals referred to in the first sentence of this Section 6.2(b)(i) prior to the Closing Date and the directors will be as follows
And the first sentence that they are tallking about is... (a) Reservation of Shares of the Buyer's Stock . The Buyer shall reserve for issuance a sufficient number of shares of the Buyer's Stock to cover the issuances of such stock required hereby and shall file such forms as may be required to notify Over the Counter NASDAQ Bulletin Board of Buyer's intent to list on the NASDAQ National Market System the additional shares of Surviving Holdings Company stock to be issued as part of the Merger Consideration.
What I "get" out of those statements is that as far as the merger goes they can do what they decide to do with the share structure...
"reasonable best efforts" NOBO list? And it was incorrect in the begining...but they did try...couldn't get the info they needed and then made the decision to increase shares?
(d) Shareholder Approval . Subject to Section 6.1(c) , the Company shall, at the earliest practicable date following the effective date of the Registration Statement covering the Buyer's Stock to be issued in the Merger, (i) promptly and duly call, give notice of, convene and hold a meeting of its shareholders for the purpose of voting to approve this Agreement and the transactions contemplated hereby, including the Merger, (ii) take all reasonable action to solicit and obtain such approval
(a) Reservation of Shares of the Buyer's Stock . The Buyer shall reserve for issuance a sufficient number of shares of the Buyer's Stock to cover the issuances of such stock required hereby and shall file such forms as may be required to notify Over the Counter NASDAQ Bulletin Board of Buyer's intent to list on the NASDAQ National Market System the additional shares of Surviving Holdings Company stock to be issued as part of the Merger Consideration
-------------------- ..just remember....Family is EVERYTHING!! Posts: 3944 | From: Rochester, NY | Registered: Sep 2006
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Rburnout = Rstreet ....It's so obvious, man, come on!!!! I find it peculiar how you only show up here in the wee hours of the night - Is that because where you are it's day time. Why don't you come to our side of the pond I hear some feds hear have a nice orange jumpsuit for you (it used to belong to Martha Stewart!)
Hey, I got another quote from Rufus for you:
"If they want to dance, we can dance!"
BOO YAH!!!
quote:Originally posted by rburnout: Well, I see you folks choose to quote Rufus, but are incapable of discussing the actual SEC rules. Rufus does not make the rules.
Also, this latest thread is entitled DD....well, folks, do some.
How about this one: show us why the FHAL financials were not included in the 10-k, when it is required that they be, as it is supposedly a merger document, among other things.
There's more questions that don't seem to be discussed here, though I must admit that you folks are not the airheads like most at HSM....
How about those carbon credits? apparantly Brazil wants no part of them, AND the entire world market was only about $450mm as recently as 2004, not $4 trillion as MA claims just for Ecowood.
The below is excerpted from a post elsewhere from an illustrious but banned poster:
"Currently, the world carbon credit market is a $450 million marketplace, but it is expected to grow to a $23 billion one by 2010."
- Mongabay dot com, April 2006
"The world carbon credit market registered deals worth $11.3 billion euros last year, up sharply from $452 million in 2004 according to Econergy, New York-based clean energy investment, management and consulting group."
- Mongabay dot com, April 2006
--
Preservation of Amazon rainforest does NOT qualify for carbon credits:
posted
Cbush- You are right about taking action but we are doing that as we speak, we are holding our shares & not selling, in time this should cause a short squeeze, we believe they are starting to feel it now because it seems as though most of the volume is the MM's trading amongst themselves....
quote:Originally posted by cbbush: This has been very interesting reading in the new thread, and it sounds like there are several other chat sites about the company and what has transpired.
I would assume there is a lot of interest and money at stake.
Assuming that we take a positive attitude w/o the negativity and truly believe in Rufus and that MMs are manipulating the PPS because they can, then let's form an alliance and manipulate the stock in a positive fashion for our benefit.
If we truly believe in this, then let's put more of our money where our mouths are. Sitting back and taking no action doesn't make sense.
"There are costs and risks associated with any plan of action, but the costs and risks of comfortable inaction far outweigh those of action," John F. Kennedy
-------------------- ..just remember....Family is EVERYTHING!! Posts: 3944 | From: Rochester, NY | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by cbbush: Any takers? Most of the DD here says this is the real deal, so let's do it. If one group can manipulate the stock w/o getting into trouble, then why can't we?
-------------------- ..just remember....Family is EVERYTHING!! Posts: 3944 | From: Rochester, NY | Registered: Sep 2006
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Jenna -- Then why is not accumulating more stock a better idea. Tap into home equity, take out a loan, borrow from family. How can we lose?
Posts: 106 | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by rburnout: Well, I see you folks choose to quote Rufus, but are incapable of discussing the actual SEC rules. Rufus does not make the rules.
Also, this latest thread is entitled DD....well, folks, do some.
How about this one: show us why the FHAL financials were not included in the 10-k, when it is required that they be, as it is supposedly a merger document, among other things.
There's more questions that don't seem to be discussed here, though I must admit that you folks are not the airheads like most at HSM....
How about those carbon credits? apparantly Brazil wants no part of them, AND the entire world market was only about $450mm as recently as 2004, not $4 trillion as MA claims just for Ecowood.
The below is excerpted from a post elsewhere from an illustrious but banned poster:
"Currently, the world carbon credit market is a $450 million marketplace, but it is expected to grow to a $23 billion one by 2010."
- Mongabay dot com, April 2006
"The world carbon credit market registered deals worth $11.3 billion euros last year, up sharply from $452 million in 2004 according to Econergy, New York-based clean energy investment, management and consulting group."
- Mongabay dot com, April 2006
--
Preservation of Amazon rainforest does NOT qualify for carbon credits:
wow you r burnout, for reals huh? take your prozac like your doctor told you too!
You nailed it bank man! How do people wake up in the morning being so negative?
-------------------- The safest way to double your money is to fold it over and put it in your pocket. Posts: 40 | From: California | Registered: Oct 2006
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Time the run. Not Monday, but next Monday. If we believe -- through the roof baby -- let's do it.
Posts: 106 | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by thedoctor: All I want to say is ....Rufus said he is going to do something that has never been done before. I choose to believe him. Can it hurt to wait till at least the 30th ? For two days Rburnout, you have argued that it can't and won't happen. Quite frankly, I think they got tired of you at HSM also. Please stop. People here have tried to explain to you what we have found. If it is not enough info for you......GO. You obviously are way to smart for us. I have tried to be polite with you as have all of the others here .... but after a while this is getting stale. If you people want this to continue, I'll just go to bed or watch a movie. I am tired of him.
I think you hit the nail squarely here Doc...The one thing I am not sure of is what RPH means by "never been done before".
I do not think this is in relation to "how" or "what" they are doing. I think it is in realtion to identifying the degree of the maniplulation. I could be wrong...but I don't think so.
-------------------- - "Pay it Forward" Posts: 1524 | Registered: Jun 2006
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I have never seen anything like this stock in my life! Anyone else going to buy a boat load of it come Monday morning? I have only had enough time to do limited DD but what I have seen is pretty sweet. This one is going for a ride.
-------------------- The safest way to double your money is to fold it over and put it in your pocket. Posts: 40 | From: California | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by cbbush: Jenna -- Then why is not accumulating more stock a better idea. Tap into home equity, take out a loan, borrow from family. How can we lose?
DON'T DO IT! These are all things that every experienced investor and consultant tell you not to do. The classic mantra: Don't invest more than you can afford to lose.
How can you lose? Easy the market is a fickle lass. The best of companies don't make it for reasons we don't know, and as has been demonstrated here, we definitely don't know everything. We know what's in the filings, what Rufus has told us and we have surmised, as logically as possible, the rest.
I am an optimist, have bought shares on dips and hope for the best, but in one fell swoop it could all go "bye bye" and if it happens, I'll be bummed- but no hard feelings. That's just how things are.
An internet organized group will never work as well as an MM or an investor-backed organized consortium (like those you see in leveraged buyout).
Look at the PBLS boards. They tried to rally a "buy/sell" protest to try and rally the stock last week. The volume was still strong and it went up a mere .0005. The next day it retraced.
Again, I encourage you to stay away from this sort of practice- don't borrow to get into this thing; I imagine Rufus would tell you the same thing.
Posts: 949 | From: Little Rock, AR | Registered: Dec 2005
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Scary Thought CBBUSH. I support CSHD as much as anyone else here, and I have all my "INVESTING CASH" in it. However, I never trade any money I can't afford to lose. Don't do it buddy. In the Risk vs Reward department there is just too much risk.
-------------------- "I will smack you in the mouth, I'm Neil Diamond"- Will Ferrell Posts: 4190 | From: Rhode Island | Registered: Mar 2006
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Thanks bilgert. That's what I wanted to hear -- cautious optimism, because what I copied from investopedia (I believe that's right) could be true here. We can't be too careful, can we? I own shares and have made a decision to hold because I can afford the loss, but I will not bash anyone who says I have a substantial risk. I do, you do and we all do, but we will cheer for our team regardless. Those who bash are not as confident in their positions as we are or can afford to lose the money. Opinions on DD will differ, and we can agree to disagree in a civil manner. I haven't jumped on the front car but I'm on the roller coaster for the ride.
"On the other hand, it's tough to deny that short selling makes an important contribution to the market. It provides liquidity, drives down overpriced securities, and generally increases the efficiency of the markets. Short sellers are often the first line of defense against financial fraud. While the conflicts of interest from investment banking keeps some analysts from giving completely unbiased research, work from short sellers is often regarded as being some of the most detailed and highest quality research in the market. Its been said that short sellers actually prevent crashes because they provide a voice of reason during raging bull markets...
This is the mirror version of the "pump and dump," where crooks buy stock (take a long position) and issue false information that causes the target stock's price to increase."
Posts: 106 | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by cbbush: Jenna -- Then why is not accumulating more stock a better idea. Tap into home equity, take out a loan, borrow from family. How can we lose?
DON'T DO IT! These are all things that every experienced investor and consultant tell you not to do. The classic mantra: Don't invest more than you can afford to lose.
How can you lose? Easy the market is a fickle lass. The best of companies don't make it for reasons we don't know, and as has been demonstrated here, we definitely don't know everything. We know what's in the filings, what Rufus has told us and we have surmised, as logically as possible, the rest.
I am an optimist, have bought shares on dips and hope for the best, but in one fell swoop it could all go "bye bye" and if it happens, I'll be bummed- but no hard feelings. That's just how things are.
An internet organized group will never work as well as an MM or an investor-backed organized consortium (like those you see in leveraged buyout).
Look at the PBLS boards. They tried to rally a "buy/sell" protest to try and rally the stock last week. The volume was still strong and it went up a mere .0005. The next day it retraced.
Again, I encourage you to stay away from this sort of practice- don't borrow to get into this thing; I imagine Rufus would tell you the same thing.
Great advice and I have to agree. Dont do it if you are not ready to loose it. This type of advice is very hard to give because hind sight is usually not so kind. Nothing worse than beating yourself up because you let an opportunity slip by.
-------------------- The safest way to double your money is to fold it over and put it in your pocket. Posts: 40 | From: California | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Tencentmint: I have never seen anything like this stock in my life! Anyone else going to buy a boat load of it come Monday morning? I have only had enough time to do limited DD but what I have seen is pretty sweet. This one is going for a ride.
I am going to add to my 7 shares each on monday, just waiting for the E to drop, funds cleared last week, going to pick up 2000 more, and maybe more after that, hopefully. at these prices I will keep adding as funds become available up to 5 dollars per share. Posts: 572 | From: usa | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Tencentmint: I have never seen anything like this stock in my life! Anyone else going to buy a boat load of it come Monday morning? I have only had enough time to do limited DD but what I have seen is pretty sweet. This one is going for a ride.
I am going to add to my 7 shares each on monday, just waiting for the E to drop, funds cleared last week, going to pick up 2000 more, and maybe more after that, hopefully. at these prices I will keep adding as funds become available up to 5 dollars per share.
Buy before that E drops. Im thinking that when the E is gone so is the sale! I like your thinking of buying up to 5 per share. Good strategy.
-------------------- The safest way to double your money is to fold it over and put it in your pocket. Posts: 40 | From: California | Registered: Oct 2006
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tencentmint, the E should be off in the morning, so I will definatly be right here at the computer in the when the bell rings, just dont want to cross the wires at my brokers, however, I had a boatload of shares from .089 then last week, rufus gave us 6 more boatloads, a very nice gift, just going to ad 1 or 2 more boatloads, if I have time,i'll try the strategy.. Posts: 572 | From: usa | Registered: Aug 2006
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