Allstocks.com's Bulletin Board Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Allstocks.com's Bulletin Board » Off-Topic Post, Non Stock Talk » Health care bill getting disected...... (Page 9)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!   This topic comprises 16 pages: 1  2  3  ...  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  14  15  16   
Author Topic: Health care bill getting disected......
glassman
Member


Icon 1 posted      Profile for glassman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
She says he had Medicare. (Ironic, huh?)

i've now watched hundreds of pix from townhall meetings.


my eye tells me that only one in ten persons "protesting" are not obviously retirees.

the ones that are not obviously retirees are not obviously young people either, they are simply indeterminate.

i am personally not for a single-payer system.

however, as i posted last year and the year before? US companies NEED a cheaper alternative in order to increase their competitiveness

the fact is? US health insurance co's have not done anything to cut medical costs because (as inmost businesses) the profits are simply based on a percentage of revenues. the higher the revenues? the higher the profits.

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
raybond
Member


Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for raybond     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Real-life ‘Norma Rae’ dies of cancer after her health insurance refused to cover her medications.
Crystal Lee Sutton, whose courageous efforts organizing Southern textile mills inspired the award-winning 1979 film “Norma Rae,” passed away on Friday after a long battle with brain cancer. Sutton’s story is particularly tragic because after fighting her whole life for rights of working Americans, her health insurance wouldn’t cover the medications she needed:

She went two months without possible life-saving medications because her insurance wouldn’t cover it, another example of abusing the working poor, she said.

“How in the world can it take so long to find out (whether they would cover the medicine or not) when it could be a matter of life or death,” she said. “It is almost like, in a way, committing murder.”

Although Sutton eventually received the medication, the cancer had already taken a toll on her.

--------------------
Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.

Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Relentless.
Member


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Relentless.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Government of the people for the ... bla bla bla

quote:
Ensign receives handwritten confirmation

This doesn't happen often enough.

Sen. John Ensign (R-Nev.) received a handwritten note Thursday from Joint Committee on Taxation Chief of Staff Tom Barthold confirming the penalty for failing to pay the up to $1,900 fee for not buying health insurance.

Violators could be charged with a misdemeanor and could face up to a year in jail or a $25,000 penalty, Barthold wrote on JCT letterhead. He signed it "Sincerely, Thomas A. Barthold."

The note was a follow-up to Ensign's questioning at the markup.


Posts: 2965 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
T e x
Member


Icon 1 posted      Profile for T e x     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
not following, sounds like gibberish...sorry

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

Posts: 21062 | From: Fort Worth | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Relentless.
Member


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Relentless.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Define gibberish
Posts: 2965 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
The Bigfoot
Member


Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for The Bigfoot     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If I am following this right here is the logic.

Healthcare reform is passed requiring all adults to get some form of healthcare coverage.

Man does not get coverage as required by law and is fined $1,900 for not getting coverage (supposedly this fine is meant to offset costs of uninsured emergency medical treatment in ER's)

Man continues to disregard the law and does not pay his fine so a warrant is put out on him in the same manner as unpaid speeding tickets...man goes to court and is sentenced to a year in jail or a $25,000 dollar fine.


What I don't get is Relentless's objections to it. There has to be accountability somewhere in there. Step three seems a logical place to put it at.

--------------------
No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues.

Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
T e x
Member


Icon 1 posted      Profile for T e x     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Relentless.:
Define gibberish

chit that don't make sense, surrounded by nonsense.

In other words, no context.

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

Posts: 21062 | From: Fort Worth | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Relentless.
Member


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Relentless.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Going to jail for not getting health insurance?
My problem with that?
What ****ing country is this?

Posts: 2965 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
raybond
Member


Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for raybond     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
not a bad idea always room for one more

--------------------
Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.

Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
raybond
Member


Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for raybond     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Bet on health care reform passing
By: Paul Begala
September 28, 2009 03:37 AM EST

Hey, fellow progressives, I have a secret for you: We’re winning on health care.

As a battle-scarred veteran of President Bill Clinton’s health care fight, I know there are many dangers, toils and snares ahead. But I am optimistic that President Barack Obama will be able to sign into law a bill any fair-minded observer would call far-reaching, progressive health reform. Here’s why.

The right-wing shouting didn’t work

The conservative strategy of blowing up town hall meetings was must-see TV — as when conservatives shouted down a woman in a wheelchair. But the histrionics didn’t change any minds (Gallup shows support essentially unchanged before and after the August recess), and they didn’t change any votes. I can’t think of a single Democrat who has switched from supporting health reform to opposing it because of the right-wing primal scream strategy. It was, _-as Macbeth said, “a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”

The train keeps a-rollin’

All five committees involved have, for the first time in history, reported out bills to fundamentally reform our health care system. Previous House committee chairpersons in prior Congresses wouldn’t speak to one another, much less collaborate on three very similar bills, as the Energy and Commerce, Ways and Means and Health, Education, Labor and Pensions committees have. Very impressive and very encouraging.

On the Senate side, even the absence of the irreplaceable Ted Kennedy has not stopped the cause of his life. His health committee produced a first-class bill. And the Finance Committee, where every progressive feared health care would die, is in the process of producing a bill that covers 95 percent of Americans, cracks down on insurance company abuses like the pre-existing condition rule, subsidizes coverage for the poor, wallops insurance companies with taxes and fees and actually reduces the deficit.

Sure, most liberals think we can do more and we can do better. But it’s most likely the Finance Committee bill will be the floor, not the ceiling. Even one year ago, a bill as progressive as Sen. Max Baucus’s would have been unimaginable in George W. Bush’s Washington.

Democrats can go it alone

Democrats must accept that bipartisanship is dead. It’s not sleeping, it’s not comatose, it’s not hiding. It is dead, dead, dead. Republicans clearly have no desire to work constructively for a bipartisan bill.


Why should they? They’re shaping the bill without giving up any votes. Even before Baucus’s proposal was publicized, the Democrats on the other four committees had adopted 181 Republican amendments. And what did the Democrats get in return for those amendments? Nada. Zip. Zilch. Not even one vote in one committee.

How can I be optimistic that Democrats alone can reform health care? Because these aren’t your parents’ Democrats. The single biggest reason, I believe, that the Democrats lost in a landslide in 1994 was because they failed on health care. More important, congressional Democrats believe it. They know it is their rear ends on the line in 2010, not Obama’s. The press will play a defeat as a disaster for the president, but the voters will visit their wrath on Democrats. That alone may explain the remarkable progress Congress has made in the face of unified and intransigent GOP opposition.

Still, even with the proverbial gun at their heads, Senate Democrats may find it nearly impossible to herd 60 cats — especially when one of them is Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.), the longtime opponent of progressive health care reform. But they have a Plan B: passing health care with 50 votes through reconciliation. Sure it’s a crapshoot. Sure it will annoy the GOP. But what are they going to do: Vote against it? The truth is, reconciliation is an unusual vehicle but not unprecedented. The GOP used it to pass welfare reform and the Bush tax cuts. It was used to pass other health care bills, namely, the State Children’s Health Insurance Program and COBRA (Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act). And if faced with the choice between reconciliation or failure, it’s an easy call.

President Obama says we’re 80 percent of the way there. I know this: When my beloved Texas Longhorns have the ball on the opposing team’s 20-yard line, don’t bet against them. And don’t bet against the Democrats passing major health care reform legislation this year.

Paul Begala is a Democratic strategist and CNN political commentator. He served as counselor to the president in the Clinton White House and currently advises the Service Employees International Union. The views expressed are his alone.

© 2009 Capitol News Company, LLC

--------------------
Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.

Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
T e x
Member


Icon 1 posted      Profile for T e x     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Relentless.:
Going to jail for not getting health insurance?
My problem with that?
What ****ing country is this?

I would think it would be discussed here:

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/twenty-six-lies-about-hr-3200/

but I don't see it. I see "a fine" or "a tax," but nothing about jail.

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

Posts: 21062 | From: Fort Worth | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
T e x
Member


Icon 1 posted      Profile for T e x     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
this cat makes some good points, but he did a poor job modding the debate shown in the embedded clip:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/32954426/?site=14081545

In his column, where he writes. . . : "They called the figures "hearsay" and "made-up." But it turns out the figures come from Congress's own non-partisan Congressional Research Service. Take a look at how Rep. Andrews responded (in the video); suffice it to say he refused to apologize."

. . .what he should have written is: "I lost when I myself was unable to back up my figures, but as it turns out the figures come from..."

This, too, is a pretty good (although trash-talkin') take on the Moore film, from what I've read about it:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/33020319/

This is the best part of that column:

quote:
It takes a full hour and a half before he stumbles upon the topic he should have started skewering from the moment his film began: Bear-Lehman-AIG-Merrill Lynch-Goldman Sachs et al, and all the short-seller raids and bank runs and trillions of dollars in MBS's, CDS's, CDO's and CLO's that this entails.

Moore fails to make any serious attempt to show how and why Wall Street failed so dismally at managing risk. Instead we get silly stunts akin to what he was doing 20 years ago, in his far superior debut, "Roger & Me."



--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

Posts: 21062 | From: Fort Worth | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
glassman
Member


Icon 1 posted      Profile for glassman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
i hear prisoners get excellent health care. and they don't pay a penny [Roll Eyes]

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Relentless.
Member


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Relentless.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by T e x:
quote:
Originally posted by Relentless.:
Going to jail for not getting health insurance?
My problem with that?
What ****ing country is this?

I would think it would be discussed here:

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/twenty-six-lies-about-hr-3200/

but I don't see it. I see "a fine" or "a tax," but nothing about jail.

What happens when you don't pay a fine?
Posts: 2965 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
T e x
Member


Icon 1 posted      Profile for T e x     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Relentless.:
quote:
Originally posted by T e x:
quote:
Originally posted by Relentless.:
Going to jail for not getting health insurance?
My problem with that?
What ****ing country is this?

I would think it would be discussed here:

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/twenty-six-lies-about-hr-3200/

but I don't see it. I see "a fine" or "a tax," but nothing about jail.

What happens when you don't pay a fine?
depends.

traffic tickets? even for goofy chit, you can easily wind up in a jail situation. Around here? There's been times when I would surrender myself and work off $400+ fines in a dayandahalf. The worst part? I read all their books, except romances--a man's gotta draw line, somewhere.

Zoning/code compliance? Depends where you live. In my old 'hood, we had a nutball-sourpuss that would study the code and call in on anybody that didn't have regulation kickstands on bicycles. Plus, the dept. "mailed" out tickets. Totally without due process. Consequently, I totally wadded 'em up and ignored 'em. That chit simply *goes away.*

Seriously, this would be federal, I guess, (or some combo of state/federal) so you're talking IRS and somewhere in the neighborhood of student loans. At the income levels we're talking about, I can't think of a single case of poor folks slammed into jail time over an IRS bill. And there's certainly no jail time over student loans. In fact, some of the student-loan originators could stand a lil' scrutiny themselves. What would happen--most likely--is sumpin like this: Instead of getting, say, $1,000 refund with Earned Income Credit factored in, you'd only get an $80 refund.

Now, that's totally offa the top of my head as far as figures go. But the principle's sound--our problem is the principals.

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

Posts: 21062 | From: Fort Worth | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
The Bigfoot
Member


Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for The Bigfoot     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Relentless.:
Going to jail for not getting health insurance?
My problem with that?
What ****ing country is this?

What happens if you don't have auto insurance and you get into an accident Rent?

--------------------
No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues.

Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
raybond
Member


Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for raybond     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
_-as Macbeth said, “a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”

--------------------
Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.

Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Relentless.
Member


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Relentless.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Please then show me exactly where the FEDERAL government is given the right to mandate that I pay a friggen fine for not getting health insurance...
It will take you until the next amendment I think so I won't hold my breath.
Auto insurance is mandated by local or state governments BF... Yes there is a difference.

Posts: 2965 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Relentless.
Member


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Relentless.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Oh.. and for anyone that thinks the FEDS of all worthless organizations will simply forgive any unpaid fines?
Yeah...
Holding merely delusional as a lofty goal...

Posts: 2965 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
raybond
Member


Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for raybond     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I liked the prison term better

--------------------
Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.

Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Relentless.
Member


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Relentless.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Is there any hope at all that you might focus long enough to actually reply coherently?
Posts: 2965 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
T e x
Member


Icon 1 posted      Profile for T e x     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Relentless.:
Oh.. and for anyone that thinks the FEDS of all worthless organizations will simply forgive any unpaid fines?
Yeah...
Holding merely delusional as a lofty goal...

Truly, I've lost track of where the prison idea got started on this thread. I don't see it mentioned anywhere else in the health-care "cloud."

Anyway, for peeps who truly can't afford health-care, it shouldn't be "required" as much as it is "offered." That would be like jailing peeps who qualify for food stamps but don't go get 'em...

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

Posts: 21062 | From: Fort Worth | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
raybond
Member


Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for raybond     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Grayson’s Right: Under The Republican Plan, ‘Don’t Get Sick’ (Or You Might Have To ‘Die Quickly’)

Last night, in a controversial speech on the House floor, Rep. Alan Grayson (D-FL) announced that the Republican alternative health care proposals would force sick Americans to “die quickly”:

It’s my duty and pride tonight to be able to announce exactly what the Republicans plan to do for health care in America… It’s a very simple plan. Here it is. The Republican health care plan for America: “don’t get sick.” If you have insurance don’t get sick, if you don’t have insurance, don’t get sick; if you’re sick, don’t get sick. Just don’t get sick. … If you do get sick America, the Republican health care plan is this: “die quickly.”
No Republican wants Americans to die, but the party’s efforts to stonewall meaningful health care reform perpetuate a status quo in which 45,000 Americans die every year because they lack health care coverage and thousands more see their policies canceled or denied by private insurers that are beholden to Wall Street’s profit expectations and not patient health.

Grayson intentionally over-stated his case. It’s not that Republicans want to kill people; it’s that their opposition to meaningful health care reform and their “free market” alternatives would further deregulate insurers and allow companies to continue pushing individuals into high deductible policies that don’t provide adequate coverage and actually harm Americans who can’t afford their medical bills:

“Don’t get sick.” Under the Republican alternatives, private insurers will deny coverage to Americans who suffer from chronic illnesses like cancers or asthma and lure healthier applicants into high deductible policies that provide limited coverage once they become sick.

“Die quickly.” If Americans in these policies do fall ill, they will go bankrupt paying off their medical bills and join the 78 percent of bankruptcy filers burdened by health care expenses who had health insurance but “still were overwhelmed by their medical debt.” Grayson is facetiously suggesting that Americans would be urged to skip the “bankruptcy” part, avoid being a financial burden on their family, and simply pass away.

In other words, the Republican alternatives harm Americans by placing our fate in the hands of the very same private for-profit corporations that have created the health care crisis in the first place.

--------------------
Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.

Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lockman
Member


Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Lockman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by raybond:
Grayson’s Right: Under The Republican Plan, ‘Don’t Get Sick’ (Or You Might Have To ‘Die Quickly’)

Last night, in a controversial speech on the House floor, Rep. Alan Grayson (D-FL) announced that the Republican alternative health care proposals would force sick Americans to “die quickly”:

It’s my duty and pride tonight to be able to announce exactly what the Republicans plan to do for health care in America… It’s a very simple plan. Here it is. The Republican health care plan for America: “don’t get sick.” If you have insurance don’t get sick, if you don’t have insurance, don’t get sick; if you’re sick, don’t get sick. Just don’t get sick. … If you do get sick America, the Republican health care plan is this: “die quickly.”
No Republican wants Americans to die, but the party’s efforts to stonewall meaningful health care reform perpetuate a status quo in which 45,000 Americans die every year because they lack health care coverage and thousands more see their policies canceled or denied by private insurers that are beholden to Wall Street’s profit expectations and not patient health.

Grayson intentionally over-stated his case. It’s not that Republicans want to kill people; it’s that their opposition to meaningful health care reform and their “free market” alternatives would further deregulate insurers and allow companies to continue pushing individuals into high deductible policies that don’t provide adequate coverage and actually harm Americans who can’t afford their medical bills:

“Don’t get sick.” Under the Republican alternatives, private insurers will deny coverage to Americans who suffer from chronic illnesses like cancers or asthma and lure healthier applicants into high deductible policies that provide limited coverage once they become sick.

“Die quickly.” If Americans in these policies do fall ill, they will go bankrupt paying off their medical bills and join the 78 percent of bankruptcy filers burdened by health care expenses who had health insurance but “still were overwhelmed by their medical debt.” Grayson is facetiously suggesting that Americans would be urged to skip the “bankruptcy” part, avoid being a financial burden on their family, and simply pass away.

In other words, the Republican alternatives harm Americans by placing our fate in the hands of the very same private for-profit corporations that have created the health care crisis in the first place.

This is really helpful in the debate, what a jacka$$.

--------------------
Let's Go METS!!!

Posts: 3317 | From: CT | Registered: Dec 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pagan
Member


Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Pagan     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Lockman:
quote:
Originally posted by raybond:
Grayson’s Right: Under The Republican Plan, ‘Don’t Get Sick’ (Or You Might Have To ‘Die Quickly’)

Last night, in a controversial speech on the House floor, Rep. Alan Grayson (D-FL) announced that the Republican alternative health care proposals would force sick Americans to “die quickly”:

It’s my duty and pride tonight to be able to announce exactly what the Republicans plan to do for health care in America… It’s a very simple plan. Here it is. The Republican health care plan for America: “don’t get sick.” If you have insurance don’t get sick, if you don’t have insurance, don’t get sick; if you’re sick, don’t get sick. Just don’t get sick. … If you do get sick America, the Republican health care plan is this: “die quickly.”
No Republican wants Americans to die, but the party’s efforts to stonewall meaningful health care reform perpetuate a status quo in which 45,000 Americans die every year because they lack health care coverage and thousands more see their policies canceled or denied by private insurers that are beholden to Wall Street’s profit expectations and not patient health.

Grayson intentionally over-stated his case. It’s not that Republicans want to kill people; it’s that their opposition to meaningful health care reform and their “free market” alternatives would further deregulate insurers and allow companies to continue pushing individuals into high deductible policies that don’t provide adequate coverage and actually harm Americans who can’t afford their medical bills:

“Don’t get sick.” Under the Republican alternatives, private insurers will deny coverage to Americans who suffer from chronic illnesses like cancers or asthma and lure healthier applicants into high deductible policies that provide limited coverage once they become sick.

“Die quickly.” If Americans in these policies do fall ill, they will go bankrupt paying off their medical bills and join the 78 percent of bankruptcy filers burdened by health care expenses who had health insurance but “still were overwhelmed by their medical debt.” Grayson is facetiously suggesting that Americans would be urged to skip the “bankruptcy” part, avoid being a financial burden on their family, and simply pass away.

In other words, the Republican alternatives harm Americans by placing our fate in the hands of the very same private for-profit corporations that have created the health care crisis in the first place.

This is really helpful in the debate, what a jacka$$.
Ya mean kinda like the GOP talking about Death panels? [BadOne]

--------------------
It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.

Posts: 3311 | From: St. Louis | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
glassman
Member


Icon 1 posted      Profile for glassman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
i simply yelling out you lie?

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
raybond
Member


Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for raybond     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Pelosi: ‘There’s no reason for Mr. Grayson to apologize. If anyone should apologize, everyone should apologize.’

Republican lawmakers have been pressing Rep. Alan Grayson (D-FL) to apologize for saying that the Republican alternative health care proposals would force sick Americans to “die quickly” (even though their own members have been making absurdly false claims about Democratic plans). Rep. Tom Price (R-GA) said that Grayson should “do the right thing and recognize the comments that he made were disrespectful to the House and to the decorum.” Today in her weekly press conference, however, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) said that there’s no reason for Grayson to apologize:

Apparently Republicans hold Democrats to a higher standard than they hold members of their own party. … There’s no reason for Mr. Grayson to apologize. If anyone should apologize, everyone should apologize.

Yesterday, Grayson did say he was sorry — to all the people who have lost their lives because they didn’t have health insurance (almost 45,000 Americans each year).

* Comments
* 52

--------------------
Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.

Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
glassman
Member


Icon 1 posted      Profile for glassman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
[BadOne] are these people even really sick?

Placebos Are Getting More Effective. Drugmakers Are Desperate to Know Why.
By Steve Silberman 08.24.09

From 2001 to 2006, the percentage of new products cut from development after Phase II clinical trials, when drugs are first tested against placebo, rose by 20 percent. The failure rate in more extensive Phase III trials increased by 11 percent, mainly due to surprisingly poor showings against placebo. Despite historic levels of industry investment in R&D, the US Food and Drug Administration approved only 19 first-of-their-kind remedies in 2007—the fewest since 1983—and just 24 in 2008. Half of all drugs that fail in late-stage trials drop out of the pipeline due to their inability to beat sugar pills.

The upshot is fewer new medicines available to ailing patients and more financial woes for the beleaguered pharmaceutical industry. Last November, a new type of gene therapy for Parkinson's disease, championed by the Michael J. Fox Foundation, was abruptly withdrawn from Phase II trials after unexpectedly tanking against placebo. A stem-cell startup called Osiris Therapeutics got a drubbing on Wall Street in March, when it suspended trials of its pill for Crohn's disease, an intestinal ailment, citing an "unusually high" response to placebo. Two days later, Eli Lilly broke off testing of a much-touted new drug for schizophrenia when volunteers showed double the expected level of placebo response.

Some products that have been on the market for decades, like Prozac, are faltering in more recent follow-up tests. In many cases, these are the compounds that, in the late '90s, made Big Pharma more profitable than Big Oil. But if these same drugs were vetted now, the FDA might not approve some of them. Two comprehensive analyses of antidepressant trials have uncovered a dramatic increase in placebo response since the 1980s. One estimated that the so-called effect size (a measure of statistical significance) in placebo groups had nearly doubled over that time.



http://www.wired.com/medtech/drugs/magazine/17-09/ff_placebo_effect?currentPage= all


who cares if it works better than a sugar pill as long as it's profitable? [Roll Eyes]

this may seem like a "disconnect" but we need to ban advertising of all prescription drugs immediately, because of the power of suggestion.

besides i'm tried of hearing about side effects of prostate pills during the news...

we could prolly cut health care costs alot by simply presrcibing sugar pills.. [Wink]

Why are inert pills suddenly overwhelming promising new drugs and established medicines alike? The reasons are only just beginning to be understood. A network of independent researchers is doggedly uncovering the inner workings—and potential therapeutic applications—of the placebo effect.

how long before the drug co's patent placebos too? [More Crap]

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
glassman
Member


Icon 1 posted      Profile for glassman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
want to cut health care costs? tell people they aren't sick when they aren't. [Big Grin]

Nearly half of the doctors polled in a 2007 survey in Chicago admitted to prescribing medications they knew were ineffective for a patient's condition—or prescribing effective drugs in doses too low to produce actual benefit—in order to provoke a placebo response.


http://www.wired.com/medtech/drugs/magazine/17-09/ff_placebo_effect?currentPage= all

hmmmmmmm....

"The quality of care that placebo patients get in trials is far superior to the best insurance you get in America," says psychiatrist Arif Khan, principal investigator in hundreds of trials for companies like Pfizer and Bristol-Myers Squibb. "It's basically luxury care."

Big Pharma faces additional problems in beating placebo when it comes to psychiatric drugs. One is to accurately define the nature of mental illness. The litmus test of drug efficacy in antidepressant trials is a questionnaire called the Hamilton Depression Rating Scale. The HAM-D was created nearly 50 years ago based on a study of major depressive disorder in patients confined to asylums. Few trial volunteers now suffer from that level of illness. In fact, many experts are starting to wonder if what drug companies now call depression is even the same disease that the HAM-D was designed to diagnose.


LOL:

The pharma crisis has also finally brought together the two parallel streams of placebo research—academic and industrial. Pfizer has asked Fabrizio Benedetti to help the company figure out why two of its pain drugs keep failing.

cuz they don't work?

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lockman
Member


Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Lockman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by raybond:
Pelosi: ‘There’s no reason for Mr. Grayson to apologize. If anyone should apologize, everyone should apologize.’

Republican lawmakers have been pressing Rep. Alan Grayson (D-FL) to apologize for saying that the Republican alternative health care proposals would force sick Americans to “die quickly” (even though their own members have been making absurdly false claims about Democratic plans). Rep. Tom Price (R-GA) said that Grayson should “do the right thing and recognize the comments that he made were disrespectful to the House and to the decorum.” Today in her weekly press conference, however, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) said that there’s no reason for Grayson to apologize:

Apparently Republicans hold Democrats to a higher standard than they hold members of their own party. … There’s no reason for Mr. Grayson to apologize. If anyone should apologize, everyone should apologize.

Yesterday, Grayson did say he was sorry — to all the people who have lost their lives because they didn’t have health insurance (almost 45,000 Americans each year).

* Comments
* 52

45,000 Americans lose their lives each year because they didn't have health insurance? Was there a study? A poll? Where does this figure and validity come from? Nancy Polosi?

--------------------
Let's Go METS!!!

Posts: 3317 | From: CT | Registered: Dec 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
glassman
Member


Icon 1 posted      Profile for glassman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
i heard Rush limbaugh say it and cackle, and i heard Glen Beck say it and cry, so it must be true [Big Grin]

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
jordanreed
Member


Icon 1 posted      Profile for jordanreed     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
limbaugh DENIED! or soon will be for nfl ownership

--------------------
jordan

Posts: 5812 | From: st paul,mn | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
raybond
Member


Rate Member
Icon 1 posted      Profile for raybond     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Study finds 45,000 people in U.S. die each year because they lack health insurance

Reuters

Friday, September 18th 2009, 12:49 PM
Related News

* Articles
* Women dies after catching fire during surgery
* Obama offers plan to control medical malpractice suits
* Spanking in early childhood leads to violent behavior - new study
* Union: Teachers deserve day off if they get swine flu

WASHINGTON - Nearly 45,000 people die in the United States each year -- one every 12 minutes -- in large part because they lack health insurance and can not get good care, Harvard Medical School researchers found in an analysis released on Thursday.

"We're losing more Americans every day because of inaction ... than drunk driving and homicide combined," Dr. David Himmelstein, a co-author of the study and an associate professor of medicine at Harvard, said in an interview with Reuters.

Overall, researchers said American adults age 64 and younger who lack health insurance have a 40 percent higher risk of death than those who have coverage.

The findings come amid a fierce debate over Democrats' efforts to reform the nation's $2.5 trillion U.S. healthcare industry by expanding coverage and reducing healthcare costs.

President Barack Obama's has made the overhaul a top domestic policy priority, but his plan has been besieged by critics and slowed by intense political battles in Congress, with the insurance and healthcare industries fighting some parts of the plan.

The Harvard study, funded by a federal research grant, was published in the online edition of the American Journal of Public Health. It was released by Physicians for a National Health Program, which favors government-backed or "single-payer" health insurance.

An similar study in 1993 found those without insurance had a 25 percent greater risk of death, according to the Harvard group. The Institute of Medicine later used that data in its 2002 estimate showing about 18,000 people a year died because they lacked coverage.

Part of the increased risk now is due to the growing ranks of the uninsured, Himmelstein said. Roughly 46.3 million people in the United States lacked coverage in 2008, the U.S. Census Bureau reported last week, up from 45.7 million in 2007.

Another factor is that there are fewer places for the uninsured to get good care. Public hospitals and clinics are shuttering or scaling back across the country in cities like New Orleans, Detroit and others, he said.

Study co-author Dr. Steffie Woolhandler said the findings show that without proper care, uninsured people are more likely to die from complications associated with preventable diseases such as diabetes and heart disease.

Some critics called the study flawed.

The National Center for Policy Analysis, a Washington think tank that backs a free-market approach to health care, said researchers overstated the death risk and did not track how long subjects were uninsured.

Woolhandler said that while Physicians for a National Health Program supports government-backed coverage, the Harvard study's six researchers closely followed the methodology used in the 1993 study conducted by researchers in the federal government as well as the University of Rochester in New York.

The Harvard researchers analyzed data on about 9,000 patients tracked by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's National Center for Health Statistics through the year 2000. They excluded older Americans because those aged 65 or older are covered by the U.S. Medicare insurance program.

"For any doctor ... it's completely a no-brainer that people who can't get health care are going to die more from the kinds of things that health care is supposed to prevent," said Woolhandler, a professor of medicine at Harvard and a primary care physician in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

--------------------
Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.

Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Relentless.
Member


Icon 1 posted      Profile for Relentless.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
People do not run a higher risk of death because they don't have insurance.
The probability of death .. is 100% each and every friggen time.. For everyone.
That's right...
Everyone dies.
Health insurance just means you die poor.

Posts: 2965 | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lockman
Member


Member Rated:
4
Icon 1 posted      Profile for Lockman     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
How many people die because they have Health care, that's the study we need.

--------------------
Let's Go METS!!!

Posts: 3317 | From: CT | Registered: Dec 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
  This topic comprises 16 pages: 1  2  3  ...  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  14  15  16   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Allstocks.com Message Board Home

© 1997 - 2021 Allstocks.com. All rights reserved.

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2

Share