posted
if you see movies as art? then you have to ask yourself if this move towards prequels and sequels is a good sign.
they show a lack of ability to come up with new characters and dilemmas. On the other hand? they show an active participatory interest by the patrons of the Art. why dow we try to keep Captian Kirk alive insrtead of allowing his "figmentary existence" just remain what it is?
they are kinda like the comic books. it was "big news" today that Archie finally proposed to Veronica (?) after 67 years...
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quote:Originally posted by jgrecoconstr: Tex, that was a pretty sucky ending to 24 wasn't it........ I sat there and said That's it!!! That's the ending??? A great season but I thought a sh---y ending.
yes...whole household of disappointed folks here...
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: movies are not SUPPOSED to portray reality.
they are Art.
Clints' movies were no more realistic than JW's.
Clint's founding western movies were low budget spaghetti westerns.
JW was owned by the studios he and all other actors at the time pretty much did what the studio told them to do. they had some bargaining power as they became more famous, but not much.
i liked JW in the Quiet Man. he killed somebody in the ring and it emacsculated him, he had to find a good fight to get his doodads back. just another message of dealing with post-war trauma. Hemingway made his living offa writing about this stuff too.
the real question is can a big high budget movie studio make Art better than low budget "starving artist" independant studio.
i totally agree with Iwish, the 50's were a very idealistic time. the Lone Ranger, Zorro, all that "hero" stuff.
that was America's way of dealing with PTSD from the WW2. it was an Homage to the sacrifices that our troops made in W2. it was a clear message that there is a proper "human" way to go about killing.
Clints' ruff edge was a statement against war if you think about it.
he was saying there's no rules, and he was putting it right in your face. but his characters had no social value whatsoever, they merely survived. just like animals do.
odd...was just re-reading The Sun Also Rises this morning
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: if you see movies as art? then you have to ask yourself if this move towards prequels and sequels is a good sign.
they show a lack of ability to come up with new characters and dilemmas. On the other hand? they show an active participatory interest by the patrons of the Art. why dow we try to keep Captian Kirk alive insrtead of allowing his "figmentary existence" just remain what it is?
they are kinda like the comic books. it was "big news" today that Archie finally proposed to Veronica (?) after 67 years...
I'd like to see a really "pre" prequel...as in the first voyages of "real" starships, not just gliders floating around in near space.
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posted
Hemmingway was one twisted old fart IMO. haven't read him awhile, but i've watched of couple of his novels on TCM the last few years.
to be honest? i have done less and less pleasure reading since my eyes started getting "old". The glasses correct enough to see, but it really does get to be painful reading a book at comfortable distnace..
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posted
first voyages? we had a couple on Mars, but they've been more about the computer AI going wrong than the travel... Val Kilmer and his machine?
the ones about asteroids? same thing, more about the asteroids thna pure travel.
what i find interesting is how realistically Tom Clancy has portrayed the current times and very near future only to be ignored as a Prescient. In 94? he planned out the 9-11 attack for all to see and then when it happened people in the govt. pretended to be surprised.
i understand that the pentagon got wise and began hiring "hollywood types" like him as consultants; but only after 9-11..
Clancy has been known for years by many people to have his details down to a "T". He lived right near fort meade growing up and was an extremely diligent researcher for developing his plots in "true" format. The naval academy is just down th eroad from where he grew up too.
when clear and present danger (the book) came out? i was working and living around navy seals. some of them said he nailed the story dead on, and to beleive that almost everything in it had in fact happened in real life, but not as one single story.
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posted
true enough, true enough. i've never been a big fan of "American Lit" other than Sam Clemens.
the cool thing about him was the lack of heroism where everybody else seems to be trying to build or tear down some sort of Great American Hero out of our hybrid mismatches.
it's like hating john Wayne. he was just playing heroes, he wasn't a hero, and from what i read thru interviews of him late in life? he wasn't delusional about the fact that he was just an actor. heck he got lung cancer and did cigarrette ads.
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quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: I also think that John Wayne Westerns portrayed what many people still wanted to feel. They wanted fairness and morality and cheating was not the thing to do. Fair gun fight, fair fights, no shooting in the back etc.
That fine and all but that was now how the real Wild West was... you can read the exploits about Billy the Kid and other outlaws to know that...
quote:Actually one of my favorite Clint movies besides Space Cowboys was Heartbreak Ridge.
i liked HR too but I think Mario Van Peeples should of been shot, figuretivly speaking. What a awful actor lol
quote:As far as the movie Green Berets, are you sure that was totally unrealistic, what do you base your opinion on?
I would have to watch it again to point out what is since I haven't seen it in years... but i do remember minor things like there is no pine trees in Vietnam lol
But seriously other then minor mistakes like that you only have to put GB side by side by other Nam movies like Full Metal Jacket/Platoon/Apocalypse Now etc. and see which is more realistic...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: movies are not SUPPOSED to portray reality.
That is so untrue... many movies do portray reality... for example the realities of war ala Saving Private Ryan... and some movies try to portray what realities might be in the future ala Terminator movies
quote:i liked JW in the Quiet Man. he killed somebody in the ring and it emacsculated him, he had to find a good fight to get his doodads back. just another message of dealing with post-war trauma. Hemingway made his living offa writing about this stuff too.
i don't think these types of movies had anything to do with war... just has to do with someone dealing with tragic events regardless of where it took place...
quote:the real question is can a big high budget movie studio make Art better than low budget "starving artist" independant studio.
i tend to like indies better because they tend to have more artistic freedom without caring if it will be a blockbuster..
quote:that was America's way of dealing with PTSD from the WW2. it was an Homage to the sacrifices that our troops made in W2. it was a clear message that there is a proper "human" way to go about killing.
Clints' ruff edge was a statement against war if you think about it.
he was saying there's no rules, and he was putting it right in your face. but his characters had no social value whatsoever, they merely survived. just like animals do.
Again i don't think it has anything to do with War.... anything can be compared and construed with War experiences but it doesn't make it so... and there is no "proper" human way to killing... it's kill or be killed... to survive like the animals we are...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:Originally posted by T e x: odd...was just re-reading The Sun Also Rises this morning
i'm currently reading For Whom the Bell Tolls... long ass book and difficult to find time to read it and also the weird language they use doesn't help... recently finished Old Man and the Sea... my favorite Hemingway book due to fact I'm a fishing buff and also Swordfish is one of my faves to eat...
But anyways Hemingway and other American lits were brilliant writers like Fitzgerald, Steinbeck, Poe etc.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
posted
GB was made in 68 tho, it was not as polished as movies made ten years later, but then most movies weren't... . JW was definiteley making a political statement in support of th ewar, but i think the movie was fairly realistic and blunt. it portrayed alot of loss and very little "win"
it was JW being supportive of the cause and the troops, which might annoy some people, but i don't think it was unrealistic or untruthful
i saw it when it was released, when i was in elem school, and it made me think about how ugly war really is with the kids getting hurt and losing people? i identified with it pretty directly.
as for pine tree in the Nam? you obviously have never been there. there are plenty
as for "realistic" war movies? i don't like Mel Gibson much but We Were Soldiers Once, and Young is very realistic too.
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posted
Originally posted by glassman: movies are not SUPPOSED to portray reality.
That is so untrue..
LOL... and you call yourself a movie buff?
Again i don't think it has anything to do with War.... anything can be compared and construed with War experiences but it doesn't make it so... and there is no "proper" human way to killing... it's kill or be killed... to survive like the animals we are...
in other words? you don't think much do you.
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posted
i don't think these types of movies had anything to do with war... just has to do with someone dealing with tragic events regardless of where it took place...
you seriously mean this? have you ever taken any college level lit courses? cuz there's mountains of papers written by scholars on the subject. enough to bore the crap outa me.
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"That fine and all but that was now how the real Wild West was... you can read the exploits about Billy the Kid and other outlaws to know that...
But seriously other then minor mistakes like that you only have to put GB side by side by other Nam movies like Full Metal Jacket/Platoon/Apocalypse Now etc. and see which is more realistic..."
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As far as the real west that is probably true.
But i don't think most people go or went to the movies to see the real west in movies. Most want their hero's all good and the bad guys all bad, black and white, always a bit of fantasy, but if we want the real world every day, why go see a movie.
We have changed a ton since the 40's, 50's etc. But i still think we need some of that fantasy in our lives.
Look at the different wrestling federations and how they have grown over the years, they have built their audiances on the good guys versus the bad guys and sometimes they even flip flop, but they want them clear cut in most instances and i think we still do also.
People still want a part of that fantasy world, can't really blame them, the real one gets pretty ugly at times.
Comparing Vietnam War movies to reality is a tough one. Each seems to draw some realism, but then uses it to expand the movie to where each director wants it to go, i am not sure i have a clue at times.
I would guess the most unrealistic one might be Apocalypse Now, more of the Twilight Zone idea, although not a bad movie and a couple of big names in there.
I watch a movie hopefully to get entertained. The movies are not cheap anymore if you buy the popcorn and a drink, so i want a lot for my money... good luck
The question i have for you Machiavelli, is why would you want realistic gun scenes, if you hate what guns represent?
It just seems like you would be the last to want that.
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posted
Watched the movie "Taken" today...Tons of action...Liam Neeson played a good azz kicker...Plot is pretty disturbing, in the end you find yourself hoping the bad guys get everything they have coming...Definately worth a rental imo...
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posted
The question i have for you Machiavelli, is why would you want realistic gun scenes, if you hate what guns represent?
It just seems like you would be the last to want that.
too many people make the assumption what they see about guns in particular in the movies is real...
it's not, they shoot blanks which don't make the guns jump like a real round. a real gun like an M-16 is so loud it hurts your ears you never get that on a movie either...
then there's the biggest fools who see movies and want to "become" the action hero.. so they go on shooting rampages.. even if it's villainous? they get the fame and glory, the News then obliges them by talking non-stop about them...
directors aren't trying to re-create reality. they are trying to make it more interesting than reality is.
a case in point is the recent claim here that the north hollywood robbers weren't weighed down by their 50 pounds of body armour.
i was urged to watch a movie about it to find out how unburdened they "really" were, but the movie was just that, a movie, a re-enactment by actors..
if you want reality? you watch a Documentary and even they are not "real" because the subjects become actors in their movie...they begin to make themselves act to "improve" the movie... it's just how people are.
we don't read fiction for "reality" we don't watch movies for reality...
i'm watching (sortof) The Devils Tomb right now- it's awful, save your money its mostly cherry pie being splattered all or people...
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: JW was definiteley making a political statement in support of th ewar, but i think the movie was fairly realistic and blunt. it portrayed alot of loss and very little "win"
Others have said it best so i will just paste their statements:
"The film is criticized for glorifying the Vietnam War, and, in 2005, Chicago newspaper movie critic Roger Ebert enumerated it in his list of most-hated films for being a "heavy-handed, remarkably old-fashioned film."
quote:it was JW being supportive of the cause and the troops, which might annoy some people, but i don't think it was unrealistic or untruthful
He glorified it, there is nothing to glorify.
quote:i saw it when it was released, when i was in elem school, and it made me think about how ugly war really is with the kids getting hurt and losing people? i identified with it pretty directly.
How so? you and your family didn't get napalmed.
quote:as for pine tree in the Nam? you obviously have never been there. there are plenty
"The story occurs in southern Vietnam, which does not have pine trees, though numerous scenes in the film are shot around stands of pine trees."
Google: Green Berets film wiki
quote:as for "realistic" war movies? i don't like Mel Gibson much but We Were Soldiers Once, and Young is very realistic too.
Yes I agree We Were Soldiers was very realistic.... but how come you don't like Mel other then his Anti-semitism and incredibly gorgeous russian gf?
Young?
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: Originally posted by glassman: movies are not SUPPOSED to portray reality.
That is so untrue..
LOL... and you call yourself a movie buff?
Care to show us why movies are not supposed to portray reality oh Wise one? And to make it clear I don't mean all movies just the ones based on fact...
quote:in other words? you don't think much do you.
ahhh the insult without the provocation where you will now say i did provoke you or insulted you first.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
you seriously mean this? have you ever taken any college level lit courses? cuz there's mountains of papers written by scholars on the subject. enough to bore the crap outa me.
Show us oh Wise one... if anything I would say it had to do with the Cold War then WW2...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
posted
"The story occurs in southern Vietnam, which does not have pine trees, though numerous scenes in the film are shot around stands of pine trees."
sorry dude, whoever told you that is just wrong.
besides? even if it did? you can hardly blame them for not shooting on location.
i've watched the Green Berets again since childhood, it did not glorify war. it showed friends losing friends it showed children getting punji sticks. it showed people dying on both sides of very inglorious deaths...
what it glorified was the sacrifices soldiers go thru in war. it glorified honor, which you, by your own words, seem to have no sense of, in fact you say over and over again that honor is foolish.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: and there is no "proper" human way to killing... it's kill or be killed... to survive like the animals we are...
speak for yourself. i am not an animal and i know many humans.
you are a human which is an animal on this earth whether you like to admit it or not and other then those perfect killing machines sharks.... i would say we are the perfect killing machine...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: "The story occurs in southern Vietnam, which does not have pine trees, though numerous scenes in the film are shot around stands of pine trees."
sorry dude, whoever told you that is just wrong.
besides? even if it did? you can hardly blame them for not shooting on location.
i've watched the Green Berets agan since childhood, it did not glorify war. it showed friends losing friends it showed children getting punji sticks. it showed people dying on both sides of ingorious deaths...
what it glorified was the sacrifices soldiers go thru in war. it glorified honor, which you, by your own words, seem to have no sense of, in fact you say over and over again that honor is foolish.
Location was in Ft. Benning I believe but it does show you know about as much about Vietnam as I do...
There was no honor in Vietnam and that is why that war was wrong as Iraq was... honor is a fantasy the military feeds us to justify what they do sometimes that is not honorable ala My Lai...
i made a thread to talk about what was our last movie watched and if we recommended it or not and as always you have to turn it into a political only discussion...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: the differences between humans and animals, it's not something you can teach someone in a few sentences.
Nope it can't be said in a few sentences but other then reasoning we are animals but with more brains then the rest of the animals... that is why we are the perfect killing machine almost with the exception of emotions and that is why sharks really are better killers... but anyways who cares i say we are and u say we aren't... toematoe and tomahtoe
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:Originally posted by Happy Valley: Watched the movie "Taken" today...Tons of action...Liam Neeson played a good azz kicker...Plot is pretty disturbing, in the end you find yourself hoping the bad guys get everything they have coming...Definately worth a rental imo...
I was at CVS developing my digital camera pics while I was waiting i saw the DVD box for this... almost bought it but i saw bad reviews for this one so i didn't get it... might rent it instead...
my manager recommended Vantage Point to me... he watched it 2 times and said it was great... might rent that one as well...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: too many people make the assumption what they see about guns in particular in the movies is real...
it's not, they shoot blanks which don't make the guns jump like a real round. a real gun like an M-16 is so loud it hurts your ears you never get that on a movie either...
then there's the biggest fools who see movies and want to "become" the action hero.. so they go on shooting rampages.. even if it's villainous? they get the fame and glory, the News then obliges them by talking non-stop about them...
directors aren't trying to re-create reality. they are trying to make it more interesting than reality is.
a case in point is the recent claim here that the north hollywood robbers weren't weighed down by their 50 pounds of body armour.
i was urged to watch a movie about it to find out how unburdened they "really" were, but the movie was just that, a movie, a re-enactment by actors..
if you want reality? you watch a Documentary and even they are not "real" because the subjects become actors in their movie...they begin to make themselves act to "improve" the movie... it's just how people are.
we don't read fiction for "reality" we don't watch movies for reality...
i'm watching (sortof) The Devils Tomb right now- it's awful, save your money its mostly cherry pie being splattered all or people...
Speak for yourself bud... some movies we watch to be as close to reality of such a situation as possible... I think Saving Private Ryan exemplified that... and who says a movie can't PORTRAY reality? If so then you have no vision... why do they hire technical advisors for movies including military ones for War movies? To get it as close to reality as possible... not all movies of course but ones like We Were Soldiers, Full Metal Jacket, Platoon (stone was his own advisor imo since he served in Nam) etc. 95% or more are just fantasy but there are a few that are a PORTRAYAL of reality....
Btw the North Hollywood incident I sent you clips of the real robbers because you mentioned the re-enactment one... the real robbers weren't acting...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
posted
just to prove what i have seen with my own eyes?
Pine forests Location: Dalat, Vietnam
Pine forest, Da Lat, Lam Dong
If you travel by road from Nha Trang and Phan Rang to Da Lat, after crossing over the Ngoan Muc Pass, or if you start from Ho Chi Minh City, after you pass the Finom junction, you will be amazed at the abundant pine forests.
The trees grow on hills, along passes, in valleys and by waterfalls. Although pine trees grow mainly in cold countries, Viet Nam is fortunate enough to have them in several regions. Of the
100 species of pine trees in the world, Viet Nam has five:
* The five-leaf (pinus exce/sa wall), which can withstand a very cold climate, concentrates in Lam Dong-Da Lat and the southwest of Thua Thien-Hue. * The flat-leaf (pinus ducampo Krempfii) concentrates in Khanh Hoa and Ninh Thuan. * The three-leaf (pinus Khasya rogle) is abundant in Lam Dong, Daklak, Lai Chau, Lao Cai, Yen Bai, Ha Giang and Son La. This pine tree grows well in temperature ranges between 15 and 24 degrees Celsius. * The twin-leaf grows mainly in Lam Dong-Da Lat, Kon Turn, Daklak, Gia Lai, Thua Thien - Hue, Ha Bac and Ha Tay. The best temperature for its growth is 24 to 27 degrees Celsius. * The horse tail concentrates in Lang Son, Lai Chau, Vinh Phuc, Quang Ninh, and Cao Bang. It grows well in temperature ranges from 21 to 22 degrees Celsius. Of the above pine species, Da Lat's main ones are the five-leaf, the flat-leaf and the twin-leaf. Pines here are grown for two main purposes: the wood and resin. Pine wood is used for making musical instruments, ships and boats, household objects, and paper pulp. More recently, the local pine wood is also used for making plywood for exports Pine resin is used for making paper, textile fibers, and insulators, cosmetics and medicines.
Local growers use the same techniques for cultivating the pines as elsewhere. They let the pine seeds sprout, which takes about five days. Then they plant the seedlings in nylon bags and nurture them for 12 months before transplanting them in the forest. When the pine reaches 44 years of age, growers start to exploit its resin for the next 40 years. They cut the tree down for wood when it reaches 80 years of age. As you wander through the pine forest, you will have a sense of serenity. Look at the straight rows of tall, slender young pines covering a vast area. Lean against an old pine enveloped by the silence of an early afternoon. Listen to the songs of the pines and enjoy the cool breeze. Perhaps, you will become inspired to create a poem or sing to yourself.
posted
Btw the North Hollywood incident I sent you clips of the real robbers because you mentioned the re-enactment one... the real robbers weren't acting...
LOL.. they weren't running either but you had an excuse for that too... the clips that showed them moving briskly were re-enactments from th e history channel movie... sheesh
give up you can't win
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: I believe but it does show you know about as much about Vietnam as I do...
uh, once again you are FOS. waht's new?
and your turning into an azz again without provocation so what else is new...
it's called reciprocity. you know DaLat is in the south right? LOL...
i'm not here to be popular, never was. ask anybody, they'll agree.. why does that bother you so much? if i was looking to be popular i'd be somewhere else.
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