posted
I have always voted Republican, but this election is really different and here is why:
McCain and Palin support the things I do such as domestic energy production on a higher scale, not raising taxes, pro-life, and protectors of gun owners among many other things. I feel very strongly about gun ownership as a people without arms are subject to just about anything as we have seen in the past. Remember, 2nd amendment was not about keeping guns to go hunting. It was about having the weapons to resist a tryannous government.
Obama...well he is new, fresh, and lacks experience. He has affiliations with people that quite frankly sicken me.
I think McCain would run the show differently than Bush. I would like to see conservatives get nominated on the supreme court. However, many things wouldnt change such as the economy.
Obama is the only one seeking something truly different. Which makes me want to vote for him so we get out of this Bush era. He has some very liberal policies that frighten me.
So now it comes down to this. Am I willing to sacrifice gun ownership beliefs, pro-life stances, and being subject to higher taxes all over the place in order for change to come about?
Or...do I give McCain a chance to weather this out and keep the nation safe against Russia and rogue areas. Keep my guns safe, keep unborn children safe from a scalpel and vacuum, and keep govt out of my check to pay for welfare programs.
Its tough to decide because what I think is most important is the economy right now. Getting the economy back on track would fix a lot of things...just about all the major problems actually. Stronger dollar should be what we seek, and I was upset that the speeches at the Republican convention have failed to address. Of course that would mean slamming Bush and you cant do that at a Republican convention.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.
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posted
He has some very liberal policies that frighten me.
me too...
add to that that he might even have 60 dem Senators to push his agenda...
i am not eh least bit worried about Russia making our nation unsafe tho... and to be honest? we have to honor our treaties, but agreeing to defend Georgia (adding them to NATO) is friggin NUTS!
we have no right or real interest in defending a nation of 4 million that shares over half it's border with Russia...
diplomacy is all about knowing what's worth fighting for BEFORE you even consider fighting...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: He has some very liberal policies that frighten me.
me too...
add to that that he might even have 60 dem Senators to push his agenda...
i am not eh least bit worried about Russia making our nation unsafe tho... and to be honest? we have to honor our treaties, but agreeing to defend Georgia (adding them to NATO) is friggin NUTS!
we have no right or real interest in defending a nation of 4 million that shares over half it's border with Russia...
diplomacy is all about knowing what's worth fighting for BEFORE you even consider fighting...
Two points.
First, Georgia and Ukraine were being considered for NATO enrollment before this mess started.
Second, of course we should be supporting an ex-soviet satellite that has a common border with Russia.
Or should we just close our eyes and hope the bear goes back to sleep? I'm not saying poke the bear, but we can't turn a blind eye to fledgling democracies either IMO. Be them ex-soviet or not.
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
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posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by CashCowMoo: " So now it comes down to this. Am I willing to sacrifice gun ownership beliefs, pro-life stances, and being subject to higher taxes all over the place in order for change to come about?
What makes you think that an Obama Presidency would end gun onwership? I doubt there will ever be a complete ban on gun ownership or for that matter that McCain if elected will outlaw abortion. These things can only happen if the votes are there in congress. I don't see either of those things happening anytime soon. Taxes are reality of life. Many Republicans have raised taxes both nationally and locally when it was necessary. Look at George Bush I and Ronald Reagan during his tenure as Governor of California. The bill needs to get paid somehow. We cannot keep borrowing money from China to run a deficit budget. G W Bush has cut taxes and look where we are. Now I know people want to blame the Dem's but they have only had the majority in congress since Jan of 07 so the problems we face today were made by REP as well.
As far as the Supreme Court, I believe that they should respresent the whole nation and not just one faction. How would a completely conservative court represent the nearly 50% of the population that doesn't agree with the social conservatives?
According to the constitution ALL AMERICANS should have rights in this country.
It's time to bring us together find solutions that both sides can live with. I know that is very idealistic but it should be what we strive for.
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posted
There was, back during the French and Indian wars, a small contingent of extremely brave Colonials that walked hundreds of miles through the wilderness in winter to attack French outpost. They suffered terribly all along their march, then spent the entire night before reaching their goal wading through waist deep ice crusted swamps.
They were brilliantly successful, captured, without a fight, the French held fort, and were recognized as exceedingly brave and ultra-patriotic heroes for the rest of their too short lives.
Numerous studies, comparing them to the general population and to their sibling and neighbors have shown that the physical extremes to which they were subjected in order to reach that fort cut their lives to only a fraction of what was normal and left them with mental deficiencies and problems through what life they did get.
McCain suffered years of horrible torture and mental deprivation in Viet Nam and, I for only one, would be amazed if it didn't more than damaged him emotionally and cripple his mental facilities.
I don't care what his mother's genetic make up may be, genetic traits do not automatically transfer to offspring. Moreover, even if he got the "good" genes, he is a 72 year old that has suffered horribly, both mentally and physically and can be expected to show results from such experience.
A vote for McCain is probably putting a pop-tart Chaney-like loudmouth, experienced only very slightly in a politically, limited, local one party system, in control of your freedoms and security.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: First, Georgia and Ukraine were being considered for NATO enrollment before this mess started.
Second, of course we should be supporting an ex-soviet satellite that has a common border with Russia.
this mess started because we were trying to add them to NATO...
do you understand what a NATO treaty actually means?
it means we agree to defend them with our blood.
I know it exactly what it means, but apparently you don't. You said "we" as in the USA only, that is wrong. Any NATO member that is attacked is defended by ALL NATO members glass, not just us.
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: He has some very liberal policies that frighten me.
me too...
add to that that he might even have 60 dem Senators to push his agenda...
i am not eh least bit worried about Russia making our nation unsafe tho... and to be honest? we have to honor our treaties, but agreeing to defend Georgia (adding them to NATO) is friggin NUTS!
we have no right or real interest in defending a nation of 4 million that shares over half it's border with Russia...
diplomacy is all about knowing what's worth fighting for BEFORE you even consider fighting...
Two points.
First, Georgia and Ukraine were being considered for NATO enrollment before this mess started.
Second, of course we should be supporting an ex-soviet satellite that has a common border with Russia.
Or should we just close our eyes and hope the bear goes back to sleep? I'm not saying poke the bear, but we can't turn a blind eye to fledgling democracies either IMO. Be them ex-soviet or not.
The Bear got poked because our ally had a false sense of security. When Iraq attacked Kuwait we responded and they aren't on our border. I mean I can't understand why it is so hard to understand that Russia was protecting interests on their border. I'm not saying that Russia is right in all they are doing but once again it is the lack of US diplomacy that creates some of these situations.
What about how the US breached the border of Pakistan without Pakistani approval.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: true, but i haven't seen much NATO activity in the last 20 years that wasn't 75% or more US...
i'm not a Putin supporter, but it's no surprise that Putin is reacting the way he is.
And Putin needs to be "b-itch slapped". He is testing the waters to see if he will meet resistance in rebuilding the Iron Curtain. If you don't see that, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: He has some very liberal policies that frighten me.
me too...
add to that that he might even have 60 dem Senators to push his agenda...
i am not eh least bit worried about Russia making our nation unsafe tho... and to be honest? we have to honor our treaties, but agreeing to defend Georgia (adding them to NATO) is friggin NUTS!
we have no right or real interest in defending a nation of 4 million that shares over half it's border with Russia...
diplomacy is all about knowing what's worth fighting for BEFORE you even consider fighting...
Two points.
First, Georgia and Ukraine were being considered for NATO enrollment before this mess started.
Second, of course we should be supporting an ex-soviet satellite that has a common border with Russia.
Or should we just close our eyes and hope the bear goes back to sleep? I'm not saying poke the bear, but we can't turn a blind eye to fledgling democracies either IMO. Be them ex-soviet or not.
The Bear got poked because our ally had a false sense of security. When Iraq attacked Kuwait we responded and they aren't on our border. I mean I can't understand why it is so hard to understand that Russia was protecting interests on their border. I'm not saying that Russia is right in all they are doing but once again it is the lack of US diplomacy that creates some of these situations.
What about how the US breached the border of Pakistan without Pakistani approval.
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: I agree with all you say, glass. She has no notion what she is in for. I don't think she even has a glimmer of why Mcbush actually picked her and truly believes her Alaska experience might parallel what is coming. Sad......so sad....
Now, though, do you have pen I can borrow, just in case that kinky lil' sweet thnaaag does maybe have an empty slot on that card? We can get back to being political after I've had a chance at researching her private techniques....heh heh heh .....
Bdgee your nothing but a sexist pig!
-------------------- Let's Go METS!!!
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I'd completely agree with you and think strong action should be taken if Russia had simply rolled in unprovoked. That's not the case. The President of Georgia, mistakenly thought he could retake a province that had broken away and supported Russia. Also part of the provocation was what we have been negotiating in Poland with Missile defense.
Let's push a bit hard and force their hand. Especially while our military is stretched so thin. What's another couple of wars. WE are not in the position of power since we have so many troops comitted to battle in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Glass is right, they are playing chess and we are playing checkers. We don't have the pawns, rooks and bishops, we are left wide open with a king and queen.
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quote:Originally posted by Pagan: It's a clear land grab. And Russia flexing it's renewed oil/gas rich muscle.
Exactly and Putin is still KGB in mind if not body... they want all their former territories back and will look for excuses to get them back one by one... right now it's Georgia... next will be Ukraine if they join NATO... they already occupy Crimea in Ukraine... without any provocation whatsoever... I do not now why Putin does not just join NATO like they are part of the UN... no one is out to invade or attack Russia... he's either a paranoid person like Stalin and Hitler were or he is just a imperialist/dictator who wants as big an empire as possible... or both... these conflicts with Russia in that region has nothing to do with border interests...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
posted
he is just a imperialist/dictator who wants as big an empire as possible..
Cheney is over there right now meeting with oil co's...
Putin has become a capitalist in the Czarist tradition...
Putin just went and bagged himself a Tiger the other day...
tiger hunting was the sport of royalty...
Putin saves TV crew from Siberian tiger www.chinaview.cn 2008-09-01 20:31:08
Russia's Prime Minister Vladimir Putin (L) holds a five-year-old tiger's head as scientists put on a collar with a satellite tracker on the animal in the academy of sciences Ussuri reserve in Russia's Far East, August 31, 2008. Putin was feted by Russian media on Sunday for saving a television crew from an attack by a Siberian tiger in the wilds of the Far East. (Xinhua/Reuters Photo)
that's who we are dealing with...
he understands media spin just as much as any US politician
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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I'd completely agree with you and think strong action should be taken if Russia had simply rolled in unprovoked. That's not the case. The President of Georgia, mistakenly thought he could retake a province that had broken away and supported Russia.
What you don't understand is that the Russian backed Ossentia militia were ordered by Putin/Russia to cause a provocation to give Russia the excuse for their attack... they are looking for excuses left and right to get their territories back one by one.. next is Ukraine with their military in Crimea is Ukraine joins NATO and then after that Poland if they put our ineffective missiles there...
quote:Let's push a bit hard and force their hand. Especially while our military is stretched so thin. What's another couple of wars. WE are not in the position of power since we have so many troops comitted to battle in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Yes, we should push hard but we don't because we are weak now and they/Putin sensed that and took advantage of our weakness... while they are finally strong after the yo yo years the 1990's for Russia...
quote:Glass is right, they are playing chess and we are playing checkers. We don't have the pawns, rooks and bishops, we are left wide open with a king and queen.
Yes, they are playing chess and they play dirty with behind the scenes sheninagans... do not think this Georgia situation is straightforward... they manipulated Georgia to attack Ossentia so they could invade Georgia and justify it...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: I agree with all you say, glass. She has no notion what she is in for. I don't think she even has a glimmer of why Mcbush actually picked her and truly believes her Alaska experience might parallel what is coming. Sad......so sad....
Now, though, do you have pen I can borrow, just in case that kinky lil' sweet thnaaag does maybe have an empty slot on that card? We can get back to being political after I've had a chance at researching her private techniques....heh heh heh .....
Bdgee your nothing but a sexist pig!
Well, come on in the sty and enjoy the mud and the kinky chicks. A good time will be had by all!
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: he is just a imperialist/dictator who wants as big an empire as possible..
Cheney is over there right now meeting with oil co's...
Putin has become a capitalist in the Czarist tradition...
Putin just went and bagged himself a Tiger the other day...
tiger hunting was the sport of royalty...
Putin saves TV crew from Siberian tiger www.chinaview.cn 2008-09-01 20:31:08
Russia's Prime Minister Vladimir Putin (L) holds a five-year-old tiger's head as scientists put on a collar with a satellite tracker on the animal in the academy of sciences Ussuri reserve in Russia's Far East, August 31, 2008. Putin was feted by Russian media on Sunday for saving a television crew from an attack by a Siberian tiger in the wilds of the Far East. (Xinhua/Reuters Photo)
that's who we are dealing with...
he understands media spin just as much as any US politician
Yep, and, in this case, Chaney is motivated purely by jealousy.
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Putin has become a capitalist in the Czarist tradition...
He's neither... he's neither a Communist, Capitalist, Monarchist etc.. he will join whatever will give him the most power... If Buddhist were the most powerful politically, militarly etc. he would be a Buddhist...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
posted
What you don't understand is that the Russian backed Ossentia militia were ordered by Putin/Russia to cause a provocation to give Russia the excuse for their attack...
have you actually looked up the guy who wrote that article? he's a military/thriller fiction writer...
nobody else but him reported that story cuz it's fiction.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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I'd completely agree with you and think strong action should be taken if Russia had simply rolled in unprovoked. That's not the case. The President of Georgia, mistakenly thought he could retake a province that had broken away and supported Russia. Also part of the provocation was what we have been negotiating in Poland with Missile defense.
Let's push a bit hard and force their hand. Especially while our military is stretched so thin. What's another couple of wars. WE are not in the position of power since we have so many troops comitted to battle in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Glass is right, they are playing chess and we are playing checkers. We don't have the pawns, rooks and bishops, we are left wide open with a king and queen.
I guess you forget a little thing called the Civil War wallymac. What would you say if California decided they wanted to be independent of the US. And they took up arms against the federal government? Would I hear the same posts from you? Those 2 regions are part of Georgia, not Russia. Land grab.
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: i don't think we are in a position to do it Pagan.
i'm not defending Putin. i'm looking at the chess board unemotioanlly and i see his "game";
sadly? Bush has been playing checkers...
You keep saying we. You are hopefully including all of NATO. You keep giving the impression of USA only. And that NOT the case per the NATO charter. That inference is very misleading glass. Not arguing, just trying to clarify the point.
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
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posted
I'm not talking about that article Glass.... it is my own personal opinion... it makes sense... if your a Power hungry guy like Putin whose country lost alot of territories when they declared their independence years ago when your country was very weak after the system at the time (Communism) collapsed and corruption and such ran rampant for years in the 1990's... and you finally got your country strong throughout the 2000's... Don't you think that power hungry guy would want those territories back? But how do you do it without causing WW3? .... Of course you manipulate them into causing transgressions to give you the excuse to "protect our borders and interests"... it's been done for thousands of years in ancient times and it's done in the present time... though it's nothing new it is a brilliant move... a "Chess move" if you will... the same move can and is done in Chess boards... the Russians love Chess and in Chess you think your moves way ahead then the move that is before you... you think 2,3, 4 or more moves ahead to win the game...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
posted
You keep saying we. You are hopefully including all of NATO. You keep giving the impression of USA only. And that NOT the case per the NATO charter. That inference is very misleading glass. Not arguing, just trying to clarify the point.
i'm not seeing the EU contingent so ready to take on Putin...
Europe's leaders agreed to postpone "partnership and co-operation" talks with Russia after lobbying by Gordon Brown, but shied away from firm sanctions to punish the Kremlin for its invasion of Georgia.
Germany Split Over Russia May Hurt Unity at EU Summit (Update2)
By Alan Crawford and Leon Mangasarian
Sept. 1 (Bloomberg) -- German Chancellor Angela Merkel's ruling coalition is split over confronting Russia, its biggest energy supplier, for invading Georgia, threatening efforts to strike a united European response to a resurgent Kremlin.
quote:Originally posted by Machiavelli: I'm not talking about that article Glass.... it is my own personal opinion... it makes sense... if your a Power hungry guy like Putin whose country lost alot of territories when they declared their independence years ago when your country was very weak after the system at the time (Communism) collapsed and corruption and such ran rampant for years in the 1990's... and you finally got your country strong throughout the 2000's... Don't you think that power hungry guy would want those territories back? But how do you do it without causing WW3? .... Of course you manipulate them into causing transgressions to give you the excuse to "protect our borders and interests"... it's been done for thousands of years in ancient times and it's done in the present time... though it's nothing new it is a brilliant move... a "Chess move" if you will... the same move can and is done in Chess boards... the Russians love Chess and in Chess you think your moves way ahead then the move that is before you... you think 2,3, 4 or more moves ahead to win the game...
well, we agree in principle then..
thing is? i haven't had ANYBODY tell me a good reason to send our kids to die for Eastern Europeans to not have to deal with their own neighbors...
i know for fact that the Georgians and the South Ossentians have been fighting since the soivet union broke up... not our problem.
the neo-cons have made it clear they are going into the area to try to make money, and the Russinas want to go in there and make money...
it really is that simple...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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I'd completely agree with you and think strong action should be taken if Russia had simply rolled in unprovoked. That's not the case. The President of Georgia, mistakenly thought he could retake a province that had broken away and supported Russia. Also part of the provocation was what we have been negotiating in Poland with Missile defense.
Let's push a bit hard and force their hand. Especially while our military is stretched so thin. What's another couple of wars. WE are not in the position of power since we have so many troops comitted to battle in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Glass is right, they are playing chess and we are playing checkers. We don't have the pawns, rooks and bishops, we are left wide open with a king and queen.
I guess you forget a little thing called the Civil War wallymac. What would you say if California decided they wanted to be independent of the US. And they took up arms against the federal government? Would I hear the same posts from you? Those 2 regions are part of Georgia, not Russia. Land grab.
Explain please. Do you mean would I support California or the US government. Really sounds like a completely different scenario.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: the neo-cons have made it clear they are going into the area to try to make money, and the Russinas want to go in there and make money...
it really is that simple...
It goes without saying that such conflicts are about money but they are also about something else and that is Power... Power is more addicting then money sometimes and anyways with Power, money follows...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
the Russkies supply West Europe with about 80% of their energy... don't look for them to be wanting to freeze this winter
Europe has the same problem we do... energy dependence from a foreign country... they much like us have to develop new energy sources domestically so the power shifts and then countries like Russia , the Middle East etc. cannot push their weight around...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
posted
I know Obama doesnt want to ban guns all together. I just see higher taxes on guns, ammunition, etc
He also supports banning semi-auto guns. Just things like that...he is about restriction.
quote:Originally posted by wallymac: [QUOTE]Originally posted by CashCowMoo: " So now it comes down to this. Am I willing to sacrifice gun ownership beliefs, pro-life stances, and being subject to higher taxes all over the place in order for change to come about?
What makes you think that an Obama Presidency would end gun onwership? I doubt there will ever be a complete ban on gun ownership or for that matter that McCain if elected will outlaw abortion. These things can only happen if the votes are there in congress. I don't see either of those things happening anytime soon. Taxes are reality of life. Many Republicans have raised taxes both nationally and locally when it was necessary. Look at George Bush I and Ronald Reagan during his tenure as Governor of California. The bill needs to get paid somehow. We cannot keep borrowing money from China to run a deficit budget. G W Bush has cut taxes and look where we are. Now I know people want to blame the Dem's but they have only had the majority in congress since Jan of 07 so the problems we face today were made by REP as well.
As far as the Supreme Court, I believe that they should respresent the whole nation and not just one faction. How would a completely conservative court represent the nearly 50% of the population that doesn't agree with the social conservatives?
According to the constitution ALL AMERICANS should have rights in this country.
It's time to bring us together find solutions that both sides can live with. I know that is very idealistic but it should be what we strive for.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.
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I'd completely agree with you and think strong action should be taken if Russia had simply rolled in unprovoked. That's not the case. The President of Georgia, mistakenly thought he could retake a province that had broken away and supported Russia. Also part of the provocation was what we have been negotiating in Poland with Missile defense.
Let's push a bit hard and force their hand. Especially while our military is stretched so thin. What's another couple of wars. WE are not in the position of power since we have so many troops comitted to battle in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Glass is right, they are playing chess and we are playing checkers. We don't have the pawns, rooks and bishops, we are left wide open with a king and queen.
I guess you forget a little thing called the Civil War wallymac. What would you say if California decided they wanted to be independent of the US. And they took up arms against the federal government? Would I hear the same posts from you? Those 2 regions are part of Georgia, not Russia. Land grab.
Explain please. Do you mean would I support California or the US government. Really sounds like a completely different scenario.
posted
So you're saying that if 99% of the people of California voted to secede the US military would attack California. Or would California need to attack Arizona or another stae on it's border first.
Oh, by the way. I'm an American who happens to live in California.
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