Close Window Russian soldiers take prisoners in Georgia port Tuesday, August 19, 2008 POTI, Georgia - Russian soldiers took about 20 Georgian troops prisoner at a key Black Sea port in western Georgia on Tuesday, blindfolding them and holding them at gunpoint, and commandeered American Humvees awaiting shipment back to the United States.
The move came as a small column of Russian tanks and armored vehicles left the strategic Georgian city of Gori in the first sign of a Russian pullback of troops from Georgia after a cease-fire intended to end fighting that reignited Cold War tensions. The two countries on Tuesday also exchanged prisoners captured during their brief war.
However, Russian soldiers took Georgian servicemen prisoner in Poti and commandeered the U.S. Humvees. An Associated Press photographer saw Russian trucks and armored personnel carriers leaving the port with about 20 blindfolded and handcuffed men riding on them.
Port spokesman Eduard Mashevoriani said the men were Georgian soldiers.
Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said officials were looking into the reported theft of the Humvees.
The deputy head of Russia's general staff, Col. Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn, said Russian forces plan to remain in Poti until a local administration is formed, but did not give further details. He also justified previous seizures of Georgian soldiers as necessary to crack down on soldiers who were "out of any kind of control ... acting without command."
An AP television crew has seen Russian troops in and around Poti all week, with local port officials saying the Russians had destroyed radar, boats and other Coast Guard equipment there.
Russian troops last week drove Georgian forces out of South Ossetia, where Georgia on Aug. 7 launched a heavy artillery barrage in the separatist Georgian province with close ties to Russia. Fighting also has flared in a second Russian-backed separatist region, Abkhazia.
The short war has driven tensions between Russia and the West to some of their highest levels since the breakup of the Soviet Union, but Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has icily defended Russia's actions.
"Anyone who tries anything like that will face a crushing response," he said Monday. Later Medvedev handed out military medals to Russian soldiers involved in the fighting.
The cease-fire requires both sides to return to positions held before the fighting began, but Whitman said Tuesday morning in Washington that it didn't appear Russia had made any significant withdrawal of forces.
"So far we have not seen any significant movement out of Georgia," he said.
A small column of Russian tanks and armored vehicles left Gori on Tuesday, and a Russian officer said they were heading back to South Ossetia and then Russia. Col. Igor Konoshenkov, a Russian military officer at the scene, gave no timetable for when the unit would reach Russia.
Also Tuesday, Russia and Georgia exchanged 20 prisoners of war in an effort to reduce tensions. Two Russian military helicopters landed in the village of Igoeti, the closest that Russian forces have advanced to the Georgian capital of Tbilisi. Soldiers and men in unmarked clothing got off and two people in stretchers were taken to Georgian officials.
Georgian ambulances later brought two other people to the Russian choppers. One was on a gurney.
Georgian Security Council head Alexander Lomaia told reporters in Igoeti that 15 Georgians and five Russians were exchanged. "It went smoothly," he said. The operation also witnessed by Russian Maj. Gen. Vyacheslav Borisov, who commands troops in the area.
Lomaia said the exchange removed any pretext for Russians to keep holding positions in Igoeti, 30 miles west of Tbilisi, or anywhere else on Georgia's only significant east-west highway.
In Brussels, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice was backing the setting up of a permanent NATO-Georgia Commission to solidify ties between the Western alliance and Georgia. Diplomats said Washington also supports increasing training for the Georgian military.
At the same time, NATO foreign ministers were discussing possibly scaling back high-level meetings and military cooperation with Russia if it does not abandon crucial positions across Georgia. But there were differences within the alliance over how far to go in punishing Moscow.
At a separate meeting, the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe said Russia agreed to allow 20 more international military monitors in and around South Ossetia.
Finnish Foreign Minister Alexander Stubb says the plan calls for the observers to be sent immediately to Tbilisi. The group already has nine observers based in South Ossetia.
The United Nations has estimated that the fighting displaced more than 158,000 people. U.N. refugee chief Antonio Guterres arrived in Tbilisi on Tuesday to meet with government representatives to discuss the plight of tens of thousands of South Ossetians uprooted by Georgia's conflict with Russia.
Guterres then will travel to Moscow to meet with Russian officials, U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees spokesman Andrej Mahecic said.
Mahecic told journalists in Geneva that UNHCR, like other aid agencies, has not been able to reach the civilian population in much of South Ossetia because of security issues there. The area is now controlled by Russia.
"We have seen media reports indicating that people are being shot at while trying to leave the area," he said.
In Gori, most shops were shut and people milled around on the central square with its statue of the Soviet dictator and native son Josef Stalin.
"The city is a cold place now. People are fearful," said Nona Khizanishvili, 44, who fled Gori a week ago for an outlying village and returned Monday, trying to reach her son in Tbilisi.
---
Associated Press writers David Nowak, Jim Heintz and Steve Gutterman in Moscow, and Christopher Torchia in Igoeti, Georgia, contributed to this report.
posted
You know what....we told NATO and everyones else to screw themselves....OWNED Afganastan then Iraq....why they singling out Russia??? I think Russia should launch a nuke on the meeting and make that their answer to the "Be my little ***** game". I'm sick of how the USA wants to make a fit over everything the world does. Worry about the crap here. Is Bush really trying his best to make a REAL Reccession?
quote:Originally posted by R1 Man: You know what....we told NATO and everyones else to screw themselves....OWNED Afganastan then Iraq....why they singling out Russia???
No one is singling out Russia, they do that themselves. It is one thing for Russia to defend Ossentia and the other breakaway province. It is a totally different picture for them to use that as a excuse to invade Georgia.
We make agreements with allies and if we do not keep our word with those allies then what is the point of them (agreements) & they ever helping us when we need the help. That includes economically via trading products which would help our recession now and in the future.
The other point is that Russia does not respect their neighbors at all. Putin/Russia without a doubt wants their former provinces and satellites from the USSR days back and will use any excuse to invade them one by one such as Georgia attacking Ossentia, Ukraine/Georgia possibly joining NATO, Poland putting U.S. made defense missiles in their country etc.
Why do we single out Russia? Let's see:
1. They helped put a plan in place to poison the current Ukraine President when he first ran for the Presidency.
2. They are occupying Ukraine territory in Crimea with their military waiting for the excuse of the Ukraine to join NATO so they can then invade the Ukraine.
3. They murdered a Russian Ex-KGB agent in London with radioactive material & have targeted others.
4. They are threatening to nuke Poland if the defense missiles are put in place. Not attack them regularly nor impose economic sanctions but NUKE them starting in effect WW3 if that happens.Not even the U.S. threatens to nuke anyone nowadays.
Should I or other board members continue with more examples? I guess you have not thought out the consequences of Russia's actions in that region. Today Georgia, tomorrow Poland, then the Ukraine and on and on. They need to respect their neighbors and leave them to decide their own destinies. And not intimidate and threaten and attack. The USSR is gone and they just want to be left alone by Putin/Moscow. No one is out to attack or invade Russia with defense missiles or radars being put in Poland, Czech or other countries. They are strictly for Defensive purposes. If Russia does not intend to invade these countries then they have nothing to fear from such missiles/radars.
Putin is just a megolmaniac who wants Russia's former empire back.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
posted
Ok, first off the USA has troops in Germany, France, Turkey, Iraq, Korea, several African countries, Cuba and many more. So Russia puts troops in another country....so what. Can't have a double standard. Hmmmm.....what happened when we Russia put missles in Cuba??? The Cuban Missle Crisis. I think if we put missles in Poland which is next to Russia....then they have a right to attack.
Think....if a person walks up to a police station with a loaded gun with 10 shots. There are 100 Police officers. Should they assume the guy can only fire 10 shots and maybe he is only protecting himself? Hell no....They gonna shoot his butt.
Needless to say....let Russia do what they want. They are 30 miles away from Alaska or how ever far it is. They could drop bombs on us fairly easy. I just wish the USA would worry about USA and our problems at home.
BTW....we murder our troops also with these phoney wars. Send them to slaughter for what??? Nothing. I strongly believe that the President, Congress should be FORCED to make their children serve in ACTIVE Duty on the FRONT LINE. Then lets see how many wars we start.
IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by R1 Man: Ok, first off the USA has troops in Germany, France, Turkey, Iraq, Korea, several African countries, Cuba and many more. So Russia puts troops in another country....so what. Can't have a double standard.
With the exception of Cuba and Iraq, our troops are there by invitation after what happened with WW1 and WW2. We are not in those countries by force.
quote:Hmmmm.....what happened when we Russia put missles in Cuba??? The Cuban Missle Crisis. I think if we put missles in Poland which is next to Russia....then they have a right to attack.
Correct me if I am wrong, but the missiles being put in Poland are non-nuclear. There is a whole difference between the two situations. Russia is basically saying that any neighbor of theirs is not allowed to defend themselves or have a strong military. Do we do that to Mexico or Canada? I think not. And Russia has no right to attack if not being attacked themselves.
quote:Think....if a person walks up to a police station with a loaded gun with 10 shots. There are 100 Police officers. Should they assume the guy can only fire 10 shots and maybe he is only protecting himself? Hell no....They gonna shoot his butt.
Poland is not walking into Russia. They are staying within their own territory and doing what is rightful to any country. To have a stronger military and defense weapons to defend against an invasion which is exactly what Russia is threatening to do. Do you see the irony? If Russia is no threat to anyone around them and do not intend to ever invade anyone then they have nothing to fear from their neighbors who do not intend to do that to Russia. Is Russia that paranoid or that stupid?
quote:Needless to say....let Russia do what they want. They are 30 miles away from Alaska or how ever far it is. They could drop bombs on us fairly easy. I just wish the USA would worry about USA and our problems at home.
You don't think too much about this issue do you. We once let a country do what they wanted. That country was called Nazi Germany in the 1930's. Isolationism is definetly not the answer because eventually it will reach our shores like it did in Pearl Harbor. They can drop bombs on us and we can on them fairly easily. That is called a stalemate or checks/balances. Georgia, Poland, Ukraine etc. do not have such a luxury so they depend on countries like us and in Europe to keep the balance. When one country has the only one sided balance in a region the surrounding countries fall one by one and eventually can reach our shores. Do you not understand that? The USA is worrying about the USA for the same reasons I just explained and for economic reasons as well. We are not a domestic economy only.
quote:BTW....we murder our troops also with these phoney wars.
Some are phony and some are not.But when they join the military they know exactly what they are getting into. They can't claim ignorance when a world crisis that involves us occurs.
quote: Send them to slaughter for what??? Nothing.
Certain conflicts have good reasons like Afghanistan and others do not like Iraq.
quote: I strongly believe that the President, Congress should be FORCED to make their children serve in ACTIVE Duty on the FRONT LINE. Then lets see how many wars we start.
I do agree they should send their sons and daughters but not because I think it will change their minds about such things but because of the hyprocrisy of only sending the poor to such things and not the elite rich.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
posted
has anybody actually been able to find what missile system we are putting in Poland?
the missiles have an 1800 mile range is about all i can find...
we call it missile defense, but 10 missiles is not a viable defense system, and is nothing like a "shield".
everybody overlooks the guidance systems behind the bombs.... the Russians are not being irrational... these systems will probably be much more able to look into Russia and track their air forces...
next question is what are we giving Poland in return for this?
remember back before 9-11 happened? Bush was already working on this plan then...
the missiles are ostensibly to defend against attacks from Iran but Iran has not got anywhere near the capability to make these necessary right now, and won't ever have it if the Russians stop helping them...
Russia's next logical move will be to restrict Nat Gas flow to countries that "displease" it... how long will Bush's policies hold in the face of that?
Russia supplies Western Europe with 80% of it's Nat Gas...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by glassman: we call it missile defense, but 10 missiles is not a viable defense system, and is nothing like a "shield".
I am sure with 10 missiles they will be able to replicate them on their own... and produce more...
quote:everybody overlooks the guidance systems behind the bombs.... the Russians are not being irrational... these systems will probably be much more able to look into Russia and track their air forces...
they are being irrational because these systems are not being used for offense but defensively... Russia can use such systems for both offense and defense but not their neighbors? That is the irrationality... Poland is not a hostile country while Russia is...
quote:next question is what are we giving Poland in return for this?
Do you mean what are they giving us no?
quote:remember back before 9-11 happened? Bush was already working on this plan then...
I don't remember that...
quote:the missiles are ostensibly to defend against attacks from Iran but Iran has not got anywhere near the capability to make these necessary right now, and won't ever have it if the Russians stop helping them...
let's not kid ourselves.. we know this isn't about Iran...
quote:Russia's next logical move will be to restrict Nat Gas flow to countries that "displease" it... how long will Bush's policies hold in the face of that?
Russia supplies Western Europe with 80% of it's Nat Gas...
I rather Russia be more civilized and use economic warfare instead of military warfare.. but what they do not get is what is used against us economically we can do the same to them...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
posted
this was what Bush was working on before 9-11 instead of "swatting flies": Bush missile plan sparks Europe fears
May 2, 2001 Web posted at: 7:33 AM EST (1233 GMT)
By Robin Oakley, CNN.com European Political Editor
LONDON, England (CNN) -- George W. Bush’s announcement that he will push ahead with his National Missile Defence programme, dubbed “Son of Star Wars” in Europe, has met with mixed reactions and is likely to increase disengagement between Europe and the US. Bush’s move came as no surprise , having been well-trailed in his election campaign. Allies like Britain have long acknowledged that the world cannot expect American leaders to fail to make use of increased protection against “rogue states” if the missile shield technology can be made to work.
they are being irrational because these systems are not being used for offense but defensively... Russia can use such systems for both offense and defense but not their neighbors? That is the irrationality... Poland is not a hostile country while Russia is...
forget the missiles for a minute. forget ideaologies too. in order to win at war? one must actually wage it first. Bush is in fact initiating this confrontation.
giving US an other eye into Russia is offensive.
I don't like Putin, i'm not a Russkie supporter, i'm just looking at the "game" without emotional attachments here...
i'm not even sure if it's a "good thing" or a "bad thing" for US to do...
what i DO KNOW is that Europe is who will suffer in this "game" and we are most definitely "serving" in this game..
even the lowly rat will fight it's way out of a corner if it has to...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
IP: Logged |
posted
quote: next question is what are we giving Poland in return for this? Do you mean what are they giving us no?
there's no way in hell we'll allow them to reverse engineer this technology..
they'll still get hit with only 10 missiles..
they are giving US alot... this defense sheild is not geared to protect Europe as much as it US...
you have to look at this from both sides...
you are assuming we are "the good guys" and they are "the bad guys"...
forget that stuff, it's for movies and novels...
if Russia beleives that we could "preemptively" strike them and actually succeed without taking more than couple of hits? they will do what they (in their opinion) have to, and can, to stop this before we have that capability.
it doesn't matter who the good guys are or the bad guys are in that scenario...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
IP: Logged |
posted
This whole thing just seems too stupid to be real. All that BS about winning the cold war.. and our friends the Russians... Why the hell would we give up a realistic chance at peace with the Russians? And who on this wretched ball of iron believes a missile shield that surrounds ONLY RUSSIA is aimed at protecting us from two or three oil rich middle east "Terrorist" nations?... NOT A ONE OF WHICH CAN REACH THIS NATION WITH ANYTHING BUT AN AIRLINE TICKET. I swear I know how stupid people are.. then BAMM they go and surprise me.
IP: Logged |
posted
what i cannot get over is how many people think Russia invaded and Georgia is the "victim" ...
on Aug 7th? the headlines, while not big, were clear. Georgia attacked South Ossietta...
THURSDAY 7 AUGUST
Georgian forces and separatists in South Ossetia agree to observe a ceasefire and hold Russian-mediated talks to end their long-simmering conflict.
Hours later, Georgian forces launch a surprise attack, sending a large force against the breakaway province and reaching the capital Tskhinvali.
South Ossetian rebel leader Eduard Kokoity accuses Georgia of a "perfidious and base step".
The head of Georgian forces in South Ossetia says the operation is intended to "restore constitutional order" to the region, while the government says the troops are "neutralising separatist fighters attacking civilians".
Russia's special envoy in South Ossetia, Yuri Popov, says Georgia's military operation shows that it cannot be trusted and he calls on Nato to reconsider plans to offer it membership.
posted
Georgia is nothing but a political toy for Putin and the Neo-cons. They have nothing of value to US but a close proximity to Russia:
Georgia's economy has sustained robust GDP growth of close to 10% in 2006 and 12% in 2007, based on strong inflows of foreign investment and robust government spending. However, a widening trade deficit and higher inflation are emerging risks to the economy. Areas of recent improvement include increasing foreign direct investment as well as growth in the construction, banking services and mining sectors. Georgia's main economic activities include the cultivation of agricultural products such as grapes, citrus fruits, and hazelnuts; mining of manganese and copper; and output of a small industrial sector producing alcoholic and nonalcoholic beverages, metals, machinery, aircraft and chemicals. The country imports nearly all its needed supplies of natural gas and oil products. It has sizeable hydropower capacity, a growing component of its energy supplies. Despite the severe damage the economy suffered due to civil strife in the 1990s, Georgia, with the help of the IMF and World Bank, has made substantial economic gains since 2000, achieving positive GDP growth and curtailing inflation. Georgia's GDP growth neared 10% in 2006 and 2007 despite restrictions on commerce with Russia.
posted
This whole thing is just amazing. Honestly this whole thing is heartbreaking. This nation of "The Free" is not just acting like... But IS making a real attempt at taking over the world... all while confining.. if not imprisoning it's own citizens. Citizens who were once ballsy to say the least are now inept parrots for the very government that robs and tortures them. This is just disgusting... and it's about to get worse I fear.
IP: Logged |
posted
How can the Russians back down at this point? How can we back out at this point? I'm not sure I can see how either can. And... I'm not entirely sure I want them to... I'm so ****ing tired of this idiocy that flushing it away so that a few may survive... just might be worth it.
IP: Logged |
# John McCain 2008 Presidential Campaign: Senior Foreign Policy Advisor # Project for the New American Century: Former Director # Committee for the Liberation of Iraq: Former Head
A well-connected lobbyist and political insider who serves as an advisor to Sen. John McCain’s (R-AZ) presidential campaign, Randy Scheunemann is the founder and president of the public relations firm Orion Strategies 1 and was an active supporter of advocacy groups aimed at building support for the invasion of Iraq. His firms have represented various military contractor and oil interests. Along with neoconservative figures like Robert Kagan and William Kristol, Scheunemann served as a director of the now-defunct Project for the New American Century (PNAC), a letterhead group that played an important role in building support for the Iraq War and an expansive “war on terror.” 2 He also headed the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq (CLI), a post-9/11 advocacy outfit that pushed for war in Iraq. Like PNAC, CLI played a key role forging a coalition of Beltway figures who supported a Middle East agenda that had at its core toppling Saddam Hussein. 3 CLI members included McCain and Sen. Joe Lieberman “Over the past several years, Mr. Scheunemann met several times with Mr. McCain to discuss his clients’ interests. He introduced the senator to the foreign ministers of Albania, Croatia, and Macedonia as they tried to win admission to NATO, and a representative of Taiwan as it lobbied for free trade, records show. Mr. Scheunemann also accompanied Mr. McCain to Latvia in 2001 and Georgia in 2006,” the Times reported. 6 In March 2008, Scheunemann ended his registrations with several countries, according to the Times. http://www.rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1347.html
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
IP: Logged |
posted
Oh I think this is the other half of that key right here:
quote:The man who many are tipping to become Barack Obama’s running mate is a pro-war, pro-patriot act, Bilderberg member who was an honorary co-chair of the neocon Committee for the Liberation of Iraq, a group that aggressively propagandized for the invasion of Iraq in 2003. Ladies and gentlemen - meet Senator Evan Bayh.
“Top Democratic Party officials are expecting Sen. Barack Obama to select Indiana Sen. Evan Bayh as his running mate as early as midweek,” according to US News and World Report.
So exactly where do the sympathies of the Indiana Senator lie and do they jive with Barack Obama’s proclaimed platitude to be offering “change” in the upcoming presidential election?
The deck is being stacked right before our eyes... And it's being stacked for War.
IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: Oh I think this is the other half of that key right here:
quote:The man who many are tipping to become Barack Obama’s running mate is a pro-war, pro-patriot act, Bilderberg member who was an honorary co-chair of the neocon Committee for the Liberation of Iraq, a group that aggressively propagandized for the invasion of Iraq in 2003. Ladies and gentlemen - meet Senator Evan Bayh.
“Top Democratic Party officials are expecting Sen. Barack Obama to select Indiana Sen. Evan Bayh as his running mate as early as midweek,” according to US News and World Report.
So exactly where do the sympathies of the Indiana Senator lie and do they jive with Barack Obama’s proclaimed platitude to be offering “change” in the upcoming presidential election?
The deck is being stacked right before our eyes... And it's being stacked for War.
Cheney had no influence with Bush. Or did he?
Do we qualify a President by the selection of the VP?
posted
We sure as hell should qualify a president on all of his/her selections. That includes his/her running mate. Not to mention that the reason for bringing it up had nothing to do with that, but to show quite clearly that he is not in charge of his own presidency. The powers that be want war... they want it now and it sure looks they are about to get it.
IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by glassman: forget the missiles for a minute. forget ideaologies too. in order to win at war? one must actually wage it first. Bush is in fact initiating this confrontation.
giving US an other eye into Russia is offensive.
I don't like Putin, i'm not a Russkie supporter, i'm just looking at the "game" without emotional attachments here...
i'm not even sure if it's a "good thing" or a "bad thing" for US to do...
what i DO KNOW is that Europe is who will suffer in this "game" and we are most definitely "serving" in this game..
even the lowly rat will fight it's way out of a corner if it has to...
Russia is looking for a confrontation where there is none... basically Russia wants to have the only military or strong military in the Eastern European region is what it boils down to... Weaker nations like Poland, Georgia, Ukraine etc. have the right to build up their military and be strong against unwanted agression from their neighbors...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: there's no way in hell we'll allow them to reverse engineer this technology..
Very easy to reverse engineer something in secret and then modify it and voila they do not need us anymore...
quote:you are assuming we are "the good guys" and they are "the bad guys"...
forget that stuff, it's for movies and novels...
That is the problem.. the good/bad guy mentality on both sides... and also the Russian mentality that their former satellites still belong to them... they need to learn to "let go" of those satellites forever and perhaps even join NATO like they joined the UN... then perhaps they will not see every NATO member as a enemy out to destroy them... but Putin still has that KGB mentality...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
posted
Weaker nations like Poland, Georgia, Ukraine etc. have the right to build up their military and be strong against unwanted agression from their neighbors...
LOL... we are building THEIR military...
if Mexico or Canada or any other country in this hemisphere agreed to set up Russian missile sites/ we'd have something to say about it too...
as for Georgia and Russia? where do you stand on Kosovo?
the Ossentians want to be Russian? do they have say-so or not?
some commentators have said that the US should have understood when Kosovo declared independence six months ago that the issue of forming an international precedent is not as simple as declaring it as such or not.
"[The US] tried very hard and assertively to support Kosovo's independence, but [to not make it] a precedent," Saunders said. "What the administration doesn't understand is that what's a precedent is in the eyes of the beholder."
South Ossetia and Abkhazia, lacking independence, do not have internationally recognized de jure governments. However, both regions do have de facto independently operating governments with leaders.
Moreover, with the US constantly citing Georgia's status as a democracy as a strong reason to back it, many are left curious by the absence of talk of a 2006 referendum in South Ossetia when residents unanimously voted for independence. Whether the leaders of the breakaway region were democratically elected by international standards or not, their leaders certainly and legitimately represent this view.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
IP: Logged |
posted
Dunno... seems we saw Cuba as an enemy pretty quickly. It's more than somewhat difficult to take any argument seriously if it doesn't understand we acted the same way when the shoe was on the other foot. Not only that, but it is the US pressing the world to submit... Russia has been silent these last couple decades... Silently watching us conquer... Now we are going to install a shield that supposedly is a defense from the Middle East??? In FRIGGEN POLAND???? My map says that's pretty damned stupid. The Russians have every right to be pissed and I expect them to act no less so than we did when they employed Cuba's position to better their advantage.
IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by glassman: what i cannot get over is how many people think Russia invaded and Georgia is the "victim" ...
on Aug 7th? the headlines, while not big, were clear. Georgia attacked South Ossietta...
No one is disputing that Georgia attacked Ossetia... that was wrong but Ossetia's militia is backed by and takes orders from Russia and were told to provoke Georgia in order for Russia to have it's excuse for "keeping the peace" by entering Georgia... Georgia is a victim because they were duped into attacking Ossetia for Putin's military plans to take over Georgia... Russia didn't just out of the blue attack Georgia without any plans.. they were prepared months in advance for this... yes Georgia attacked Ossetia... but Russia only had to take Ossetia back... there was no reason to continue into Georgia... except to claim it once again as it's own... I suggest you read the article below Glass... You'll probably call it propaganda but to me it makes sense and this coming from a Right wing paper (NY Post), please read the whole article.. it's about 2 pages:
posted
Very easy to reverse engineer something in secret and then modify it and voila they do not need us anymore...
i'm sorry, but this is not a valid response... these missiles represent the very highest level of our most recent technology. NOBODY will be going anywhere near them W/O a TS clearance...
we have only tested a couple of these missiles ourselves...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
IP: Logged |
posted
Ossetia's militia is backed by and takes orders from Russia and were told to provoke Georgia in order for Russia to have it's excuse for "keeping the peace" by entering Georgia
what's your source for this?
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by glassman: Georgia is nothing but a political toy for Putin and the Neo-cons. They have nothing of value to US but a close proximity to Russia:
We have been pushing to run a Natural gas pipeline from the Caspian Basin through Georgia to bypass Russia and loosen their grip in supplying Europe etc.. So yes Georgia has/had value to us:
quote:Originally posted by glassman: Ossetia's militia is backed by and takes orders from Russia and were told to provoke Georgia in order for Russia to have it's excuse for "keeping the peace" by entering Georgia
what's your source for this?
Told you to read the article... I posted 2 times in this thread... scroll up a couple of posts... Plus it makes sense that Ossetia's milita took their orders from Moscow much like Poland, East Germany, Yugoslavia etc. took their orders back in the day from Moscow when they were communists... Ossetia is majority Russian... why wouldn't they take their orders from Moscow? ...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:Calculating that the media and world leaders would be partying in Beijing, the Russians ordered North Ossetian militiamen, backed by Russian "peacekeepers" and mercenaries, to provoke the Georgians earlier this month.
Come on Mach.. this is about the dumbest thing I've heard in an hour... and yes it's been a race.
IP: Logged |
quote:Calculating that the media and world leaders would be partying in Beijing, the Russians ordered North Ossetian militiamen, backed by Russian "peacekeepers" and mercenaries, to provoke the Georgians earlier this month.
Come on Mach.. this is about the dumbest thing I've heard in an hour... and yes it's been a race.
Care to prove it is not true... Ossetia does need money and arms for their militia etc... and Russia along with the U.S. are the biggest arms dealers and suppliers in the world... let's just say Ossetia does not see the U.S. as it's friend nor their weapons supplier... connect the dots...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: Georgia is nothing but a political toy for Putin and the Neo-cons. They have nothing of value to US but a close proximity to Russia:
We have been pushing to run a Natural gas pipeline from the Caspian Basin through Georgia to bypass Russia and loosen their grip in supplying Europe etc.. So yes Georgia has/had value to us:
Was it ever possible for a non-Russian natural gas pipeline route from the Caspian basin to supply enough gas to free Europe from Russia's grip? Not likely given E
look at a map and see how Georgia is mosly landlocked by Rusia....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
IP: Logged |
posted
I don't think I have to prove how idiotic that quote is.. just reading it is enough. No one in this day and age thinks anyone can invade anywhere ... even during the Olympics.. and have it go unnoticed.. That whole article just stinks of rank bias and just smugness.
IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by glassman: Ossetia's militia is backed by and takes orders from Russia and were told to provoke Georgia in order for Russia to have it's excuse for "keeping the peace" by entering Georgia
what's your source for this?
Told you to read the article... I posted 2 times in this thread... scroll up a couple of posts... Plus it makes sense that Ossetia's milita took their orders from Moscow much like Poland, East Germany, Yugoslavia etc. took their orders back in the day from Moscow when they were communists... Ossetia is majority Russian... why wouldn't they take their orders from Moscow? ...
since Ossetia is mostly Russian then why are we backing Georgia's claim to them? they don't wan to be Georgian... yet we backed Kosovo's separation..
like i said, something here stinks, and it smells like neo-cons Mach.. and the neo-cons worked the Press (very effectively) to get the Iraq war too...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
IP: Logged |
Right now AK's but watch over time what else will creep it's way into Chavez land from Russia & were not doing anything about it but your defending Russia's right to do something about Poland etc.
quote:as for Georgia and Russia? where do you stand on Kosovo?
I believe in Kosovo breakaway as I believe in Ossetia's breakaway... it's the Russians that are being hyprocrites... they don't believe in Kosovo's breakaway but do believe in Ossetia's... go figure...
quote:the Ossentians want to be Russian? do they have say-so or not?
I already said they do have a say so imo... in no way have I seen Bush or any American saying Ossetia does not have the right to breakaway... the issue is Georgia being invaded and not Ossetia's right to breakaway for us...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[BadOne]](graemlins/headbash.gif)
connect the dots...
