quote:Originally posted by Pagan: Big difference glass, our missiles are "shootdown missiles", not first strike missiles. Thats what is pissing Russia off. Any aggression, missile wise, they make against a neighbor can be nullified.
i don't argue that, and i know we've offered to allow the Russkies to inspect the missile sites...
"shoot down" missile sites can be "upgraded" pretty fast, and targeting sytems don't differ that much...
i'm not defending Putin, he's definitely got on top ofhis dung heap and he's crowing loud, but there's more history here than the News is publishing.
for instance? the "breakaway republics" the Russians are "defending" are ethnically not Georgian or Russian.... the Georgians have been fighting with them off and on since they broke from the USSR...
mostly? i doubt Putin cares much what Dubya says, and he decided what Dubya could do about this before they acted...
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quote:Originally posted by Peaser: Might McCain(or Bushs' third term, as bdgee puts it) take on Colin Powell as a running mate to win the black vote?
That might just win the election for that bitter old man.
that might do it Pease, i'mnot sure General Powell is a GOP anymore tho...
my concern wit' Georgia is that sending our troops in on a humanitarian mission is the EXACT SAME EXCUSE the Russkies used to invade... they called it peacekeeping etc...
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February 5, 2004 Pakistan's president, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, made the announcement today. He has pardoned the father of his country's nuclear program, Abdul Qadeer Khan. Khan was accused and reportedly admitted sending nuclear and missile technology to Libya, Iran and North Korea.
Abdul Qadeer KhanWidely revered in Pakistan as a national hero, Khan confessed to the leaks on television yesterday, and later asked in writing for a pardon from President Musharraf.
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The United States appears to have let its European allies take the lead on the diplomatic efforts to stop the fighting in Georgia, Zain Verjee, CNN's State Department correspondent, said.
Good move... Save as much as we can. We already wasted many of our resources in Iraq.
"America is losing the whole region, and this is the region of eastern and central Europe," said Saakashvili
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wow, i just found some really wierd neo-con "rumors"
Randy Scheunemann, for four years a paid lobbyist for the Georgian government who ended his official lobbying connection only in March, months after he became Republican presidential candidate John McCain's senior foreign policy adviser.
Scheunemann was best known as one of the neoconservatives who engineered the war in Iraq when he was a director of the Project for a New American Century. It was Scheunemann who, after working on the McCain 2000 presidential campaign, headed the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq, which championed the U.S. invasion of Iraq.
In 2005, while registered as a paid lobbyist for Georgia, Scheunemann worked with McCain to draft a congressional resolution pushing for Georgia's membership in NATO. A year later, while still on the Georgian payroll, Scheunemann accompanied McCain on a trip to that country, where they met with Saakashvili and supported his bellicose views toward Russia's Vladimir Putin.
hmmmm.... i guess they stopped paying for the Project for a New American Century Site for a reason....
Randy Scheunemann (196?) is the President of the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq, which was created by the Project for the New American Century (PNAC), of which he is a board member. He was Trent Lott's National Security Aide and was an advisor to Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld on Iraq. He is 2008 Presidential candidate John McCain's foreign-policy aide.
Scheunemann holds a degree from the University of Minnesota, and did graduate work at Tufts University. He moved to Capitol Hill in 1986, joining the office of Senator Dave Durenberger. In 1993, he joined the staff of Senator Bob Dole as foreign policy advisor. Before joining the Mercury Group PR firm in 1998, he worked also for Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott.[1]
Scheunemann has been criticized for his close association with Ahmad Chalabi during the George W. Bush administration's campaign to generate public support for the 2003 invasion of Iraq.[2]
that is some screwball stuff..... or was it curveball? maybe they were both codenames for the guys that supplied Bush all of his intel for the Iraqi WMD...
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quote:Originally posted by Peaser: The United States appears to have let its European allies take the lead on the diplomatic efforts to stop the fighting in Georgia, Zain Verjee, CNN's State Department correspondent, said.
Good move... Save as much as we can. We already wasted many of our resources in Iraq.
Yes that is true about our resources but the Georgia conflict is the perfect example of what conflicts we should get involved with. The type where our allies are being invaded by a hostile country... so we invade Iraq who was no threat to us & wasn't being hostile to it's neighbors who are our allies.... but we do nothing military wise towards Iran, N. Korea or Russia for being threats to us and our allies.... go figure...
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remember? this started when Georgia attacked South Ossetia. Russia retaliated :
Hundreds dead in Russia-Georgia conflict
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS • August 8, 2008
DZHAVA, Georgia — Russia sent columns of tanks and reportedly bombed Georgian air bases Friday after Georgia launched a major military offensive Friday to retake the breakaway province of South Ossetia, threatening to ignite a broader conflict.
Hundreds of civilians were reported dead in the worst outbreak of hostilities since the province won defacto independence in a war against Georgia that ended in 1992. Witnesses said the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali was devastated.
“I saw bodies lying on the streets, around ruined buildings, in cars,” said Lyudmila Ostayeva, 50, who had fled with her family to Dzhava, a village near the border with Russia. “It’s impossible to count them now. There is hardly a single building left undamaged.”
The fighting broke out as much of the world’s attention was focused on the start of the Olympic Games and many leaders, including Russia’s Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and President Bush, were in Beijing.
The timing suggests Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili may have been counting on surprise to fulfill his longtime pledge to wrest back control of South Ossetia — a key to his hold on power.
what won't people do to manipulate public opinion?
Our own media is not innocent of manipulating public opinions themselves Glass. All media's in all countries do that imo. But i do tend to agree with the article below (coming from a Right Wing paper no less)about Russia manipulating Georgia into attacking Ossentia to give it a excuse for invasion and that Russia's military was prepared for this month's in advance:
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it wouldn't surprise me if Bush and Putin were not joking around in Beijing about how upset everybody will be.... and how they can both spin this to their political advantages
Georgia and Ossienta have had many confrontations since georgia broke away from the USSR...
but for this guy Randy Scheunemann to pop up again like this is just another one too many coincidences...
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When it comes to staring a war, the burden of proof must be met before hostilities begin, not left hanging for later generations to consider.
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Book says White House ordered forgery By MIKE ALLEN | 8/5/08 11:51 AM EST Updated: 8/5/08 11:51 AM EST
A new book by the author Ron Suskind claims that the White House ordered the CIA to forge a back-dated, handwritten letter from the head of Iraqi intelligence to Saddam Hussein.
Suskind writes in “The Way of the World,” to be published Tuesday, that the alleged forgery – adamantly denied by the White House – was designed to portray a false link between Hussein’s regime and al Qaeda as a justification for the Iraq war.
The author also claims that the Bush administration had information from a top Iraqi intelligence official “that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq – intelligence they received in plenty of time to stop an invasion.”
The letter’s existence has been reported before, and it had been written about as if it were genuine. It was passed in Baghdad to a reporter for The (London) Sunday Telegraph who wrote about it on the front page of Dec. 14, 2003, under the headline, “Terrorist behind September 11 strike ‘was trained by Saddam.’”
The Telegraph story by Con Coughlin (which, coincidentally, ran the day Hussein was captured in his “spider hole”) was touted in the U.S. media by supporters of the war, and he was interviewed on NBC's "Meet the Press."
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: When it comes to staring a war, the burden of proof must be met before hostilities begin, not left hanging for later generations to consider.
Close Window Bush warns Russia over disputed Georgian provinces Saturday, August 16, 2008 CRAWFORD, Texas - President George W. Bush sent a stern warning to Russia on Saturday that it cannot lay claim to two breakaway provinces in neighboring Georgia, a U.S. ally, and said there was no room for debate on that point.
Searching for signs of progress, Bush told reporters at his Texas ranch that Russian President Dmitry Medvedev's signing Saturday of a cease-fire plan was an important development - "a hopeful step."
"Now, Russia needs to honor that agreement and withdraw its forces and, of course, end military operations" from Georgia, a small former Soviet state on Russia's southwest border.
The Russian foreign minister said Thursday that Georgia could "forget about" getting back the two separatist regions, South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Medvedev also met with their leaders in Kremlin this past week, raising the prospect that Moscow could absorb the regions even though the territory is internationally recognized as being within Georgia's borders.
The U.S. says this is a monumental sticking point in resolving the more than weeklong conflict.
"A major issue is Russia's contention that the regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia may not be a part of Georgia's future," Bush said, standing alongside Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. "These regions are a part of Georgia and the international community has repeatedly made clear that they will remain so."
Bush said that because Georgia is a member of the United Nations, its borders should be respected the same as any other nation's. Moreover, the U.N. Security Council has passed numerous resolutions based on the premise that South Ossetia and Abkhazia remain within Georgia and that international negotiations seek to resolve conflict in those areas.
"Russia itself has endorsed these resolutions," Bush said. "The international community is clear that South Ossetia and Abkhazia are part of Georgia, and the United States fully recognizes this reality."
Earlier Saturday, Bush called Canada's prime minister, Stephen Harper, and Latvia's president, Valdis Zatlers, to discuss the situation in Georgia.
Bush did not take questions from media gathered in tall grass and cacti outside an office structure at the ranch. Rice arrived at the ranch around 5:30 a.m. local time after a flight from the Georgian capital of Tblisi. She participated in a meeting with Bush and his national security team, which included Vice President Dick Cheney, Defense Secretary Robert Gates and national security adviser Stephen Hadley via videoconference from Washington. Afterward, Rice chatted with reporters.
She did not specify what, if any, repercussions Russia might face for its actions.
"We'll take our time and look at further consequences for what Russia has done," she said. The U.S. and the European Union already have raised concerns "about the way Russia has done this. I think you will start to see reports come out about what Russian forces engaged in."
She said that unlike in the past, Russia cares deeply about its global reputation. "I think actually Russia will care about this talk, because it's not just talk, it's about Russia's standing in the international community," Rice said.
She said that the agreement that French President Nicolas Sarkozy negotiated and that both nations have signed is specific about future Russian troop presence in Georgia. According to Rice, the Russian president told Sarkozy, the current leader of the European Union, that the minute that Georgia signed the document that Russian forces would begin to withdraw.
"So from my point of view, and I'm in contact with the French, the Russians are perhaps already not honoring their word," she said.
The cease-fire agreement calls for both forces to pull back to positions they held before fighting erupted Aug. 8. That was when Georgia launched a massive barrage to try to take control of the Russian-backed separatist region of South Ossetia. The Russian army quickly overwhelmed the forces of its small U.S.-backed neighbor, and Moscow's troops drove deep into Georgia.
The agreement, Rice said, is specific about future Russian troop presence in Georgia.
"The world has watched with alarm as Russia invaded a sovereign neighboring state and threatened a democratic government elected by its people," Bush said in his weekly radio address. "This act is completely unacceptable to the free nations of the world."
Keeping up the diplomatic pressure, Rice planned to go to Brussels next week for meetings with the foreign ministers of NATO allies and European Union officials.
The crisis has chilled relations between the United States and Russia. The fighting comes as the U.S. is sealing the deal on a missile shield in Europe - an issue already unraveling ties between the two former Cold War foes.
Poland and the U.S. signed a deal Thursday for Poland to accept a missile interceptor base as part of a system the U.S. says is aimed at blocking attacks by adversaries such as Iran.
Moscow feels it is aimed at Russia's missile force. A Russian general was quoted by Interfax News Agency on Friday as saying that by accepting a U.S. missile defense battery, Poland was "exposing itself to a strike."
The missile deal awaits approval by Poland's parliament and signing by Rice during a future visit to Warsaw, possibly in the week ahead.
That is sure to further antagonize Russia. But the U.S. wants to be careful to alienate Moscow and drive Russian leaders away from further integration with the West.
"Russia's actions in Georgia raise serious questions about its role and its intentions in the Europe of the 21st century," Bush said. "In recent years, Russia has sought to integrate into the diplomatic, political, economic, and security structures of the West. The United States has supported those efforts. Now Russia has put its aspirations at risk by taking actions in Georgia that are inconsistent with the principles of those institutions.
"To begin to repair the damage to its relations with the United States, Europe, and other nations, and to begin restoring its place in the world, Russia must act to end this crisis."
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Haven't read the whole thread but does anybody else feel that Bush stance has a bit of Hipocracy to it?
I mean he has invaded 2 countries, which are still being occupied by the US that are a lot farther away from us than Georgia is from Russia. Also wasn't it Georgia that created this situation by attempting to recapture territories that had broken away? That in conjunction with the US getting closer to placing missiles in Poland, IMO, left little else for Russia to do.
HMM, I wonder what the US would do if Russia attempted to place missile in, say Cuba. Oh that's right they already did, it was called the Cuban Missile Crisis.
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Close Window US worries Russia returning to its past Sunday, August 17, 2008 WASHINGTON - Russia is showing signs of returning to its authoritarian past and its invasion of Georgia will require the U.S. to re-evaluate the strategic relationship between the superpowers, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Sunday.
Joining in the hard-line rhetoric, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice accused Russian President Dmitry Medvedev of failing to honoring a promise to withdrawing troops quickly from Georgia under terms of a cease-fire he signed Saturday.
"I hope this time he'll keep his word," Rice said after Medvedev announced the withdrawal would begin Monday.
Shadows of the Cold War emerged as the Bush administration struggled for the appropriate response to Russia's aggression against its smaller U.S.-backed neighbor, which Moscow ruled for most of the two centuries before the 1991 breakup of the Soviet Union.
"There's a real concern that Russia has turned a corner here and is headed back to its past rather than its future," Gates said.
"The fact is we have worked hard to bring them (the Russians) into the community of nations. ... We thought they were headed in that direction," he added. "Now we have to re-evaluate all that."
Rice said Medvedev had pledged that when Georgia's president signed the cease-fire, Russian forces would begin to withdraw. But that did not happen.
"Russia currently is not in compliance with that cease-fire," Rice said. "I don't have an explanation because I would think that when the Russian president says that a signed cease-fire accord will mean the withdrawal of Russian forces, that Russian forces would then withdraw. They did not. However, yet again, the Russian president has given his word, and this time, I hope he'll honor it."
Fighting broke out after Georgia launched a massive barrage Aug. 7 to try to take control of the separatist province of South Ossetia. The Russian army quickly overwhelmed Georgia's forces and drove deep into the country, raising fears that of a long-term Russian occupation.
Rice spoke on "Fox News Sunday" while Gates appeared on "This Week" on ABC.
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Close Window US, allies contemplating action against Russia Sunday, August 17, 2008 CRAWFORD, Texas - The United States on Sunday accused Russia of stalling its military pullback in Georgia, but the Bush administration is not rushing to repudiate Moscow for its actions.
The White House is struggling to figure out the best way to penalize Russia. It doesn't want to deeply damage existing cooperation on many fronts or discourage Moscow from further integrating itself into global economic and political institutions. At the same time, U.S. officials say Russia can't be allowed to get away with invading its neighbor.
Fighting broke out after Georgia launched a massive barrage Aug. 7 to try to take control of the separatist province of South Ossetia, which is heavily influenced by Russia. The Russian army quickly overwhelmed Georgia's forces, then drove deep into the country, bombed Georgian ports and military installations and tied up an east-west highway through the nation.
"There's no doubt there will be further consequences," said Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who briefed President George W. Bush on the fast-changing crisis over the weekend at his Texas ranch.
She returned to Washington on Sunday and is flying to Europe on Monday to talk with NATO allies about what message the West should send to Russia.
Russia can't use "disproportionate force" against its neighbor and still be welcomed into the halls of international institutions, Rice said.
"It's not going to happen that way," she said. "Russia will pay a price."
But neither Rice nor Defense Secretary Robert Gates would be specific about what punitive actions the U.S. or the international community might take.
"We're going to take our time and assess what further consequences there should be to the relationship," Rice said.
The United States wants to take a tough stance against Russia, but there is much at stake.
"The facts are that the United States has to work with Russia on Iran, on nuclear problems of proliferation, on a whole raft of trade issues at a time in which the United States has a huge domestic deficit," said Sen. Richard Lugar, the senior Republican on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
And holding open the prospect of taking steps against Russia gives the United States some leverage in pushing Russia to withdraw from Georgia. But nothing is expected to happen in a hurry, and the United States doesn't want to turn the conflict into a fight between the former Cold War rivals.
"There is no need to rush into everything," Gates said. "We don't want to do it unilaterally.
"I think there needs to be a strong, unified response to Russia to send the message that this kind of behavior, characteristic of the Soviet period, has no place in the 21st century," he said.
Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said Russian troops will begin leaving Monday, but made no mention of leaving the separatist province at the heart of the conflict between the countries.
The Bush administration is hopeful yet skeptical that Russia will honor its pledge to withdraw troops quickly from Georgia under terms of a cease-fire it signed Saturday.
"My own view is that the Russians will probably stall and perhaps take more time than anybody would like," Gates said. "I think we just need to keep the pressure and ensure that they abide by the agreement that they've signed and do so in a timely way."
Konstantin Kosachev, chairman of the Russian parliament's foreign affairs committee, said Russian forces will be out of Georgia "sooner or later."
Echoing Bush's call to withdraw U.S. troops from Iraq depending on conditions on the ground, Kosachev said: "If I would ask you ... `How fast the American forces can leave Iraq?' ... the answer would be, as soon as we have guarantees for peace and security there. The same answer would be toward this situation."
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George is hidding in Crawford now stomping his little feet. And screaming I want a third world army to fight how come my generals don't listen to me a third world army don't you understand.
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quote:The White House is struggling to figure out the best way to penalize Russia. It doesn't want to deeply damage existing cooperation on many fronts or discourage Moscow from further integrating itself into global economic and political institutions. At the same time, U.S. officials say Russia can't be allowed to get away with invading its neighbor.
Why the hell is it up to us of all nations to punish or seek their punishment? How the hell is this possible? Since 1914 or so we have been at war pretty much non-stop with any nation that never really was a threat to us.. and somehow anyone listens when we get mad about what looks like actually a pretty legitimate military action? Amazing.
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This is the door we opened when Bushy had his minister of defence say we didn't have time to find concrete proof before taking action.
This is the door we opened by going into Iraq on a false pretense.
This is the door we opened by getting our military involved in a long term occupation.
This is the door we opened...and Russia just stepped through. And they know damned well that even if we shift all our military focus to a new theatre tomorrow it'll be 6 months before a strong presence will be available.
F'N administration that doesn't know how to see beyond their own fat heads!
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that's why this would be funny if it wasn't so damn real:
"Bullying and intimidation are not acceptable ways to conduct foreign policy in the 21st century," he said. Mr Bush also said Russia had damaged its credibility with the West by invading Georgia.
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Georgia-Russia conflict a blow to Bush foreign policy The president's reliance on diplomacy based on personal relations with leaders such as Putin and his push to establish democracies from the top down has proved not so viable.
NEWS ANALYSISBy Julian E. Barnes, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer 3:52 PM PDT, August 17, 2008
WASHINGTON -- In the last week, two major pillars of President Bush's approach to foreign policy have crumbled, jeopardizing eight years of work and sending the administration scrambling for new strategies in the waning months of its term.
From the earliest days of his presidency, Bush had said spreading democracy was a centerpiece of his foreign policy. At the same time, he sought to develop a more productive relationship with Russia, seeking Moscow's cooperation on issues such as terrorism, Iran's nuclear program and expansion of global energy supplies.
And in pursuing both these major goals, Bush relied heavily on developing what he saw as strong personal relationships with foreign leaders.
The recent setbacks to the president's approach were all the more unsettling because Georgia had appeared to be one of the few success stories in the administration's effort to nurture new democracies that could advance U.S. interests.
Although U.S. officials say they repeatedly warned Georgia not to give Russia an excuse to attack, many observers believe the warm embrace that the administration gave President Mikheil Saakashvili gave him a false sense of support and a mistaken view that his friendship with the U.S. would deter a large-scale Russian invasion.
James J. Townsend Jr., a former Pentagon official now with the Atlantic Council, said emerging democracies and democratic movements often assume the U.S. can or will do more to back them. But the realities of international affairs mean American cheerleading may be simply that.
"I have seen it over and over again be misconstrued by nations not used to dealing with us," Townsend said. "I think they misunderstand our eagerness and enthusiasm and think we are going to be behind them for anything.
"That is what happened in Hungary in 1956 and in Czechoslovakia in 1968," he added, referring to Soviet invasions of those two nations to crush uprisings.
"Every president has to stand for democracy," Gelb said. "But the notion of force-feeding democracy into societies that have never practiced it is a mistake. And in most cases we pay some price for trying to do it."
Close Window Rice says NATO will defeat Russian aims in Georgia Monday, August 18, 2008 BRUSSELS, Belgium - Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Monday that Russia is playing a "very dangerous game" with the U.S. and its allies and warned that NATO would not allow Moscow to win in Georgia, destabilize Europe or draw a new Iron Curtain through it.
On her way to an emergency NATO foreign ministers meeting on the crisis, Rice said the alliance would punish Russia for its invasion of the Georgia and deny its ambitions by rebuilding and fully backing Georgia and other Eastern European democracies.
"We have to deny Russian strategic objectives, which are clearly to undermine Georgia's democracy, to use its military capability to damage and in some cases destroy Georgian infrastructure and to try and weaken the Georgian state," she said.
"We are determined to deny them their strategic objective," Rice told reporters aboard her plane, adding that any attempt to recreate the Cold War by drawing a "new line" through Europe and intimidating former Soviet republics and ex-satellite states into submission would fail.
"We are not going to allow Russia to draw a new line at those states that are not yet integrated into the trans-Atlantic structures," she said, referring to Georgia and Ukraine, which have not yet joined NATO or the European Union but would like to.
Rice could not say what NATO would eventually decide to do to make its position clear but said the alliance would speak with one voice "to clearly indicate that we are not accepting a new line."
At the same time, she said that by flexing its military muscle in Georgia as well as elsewhere, including the resumption of Cold War-era strategic bomber patrols off the coast of Alaska, Russia was engaged in high-stakes brinksmanship that could backfire.
This "is a very dangerous game and perhaps one the Russians want to reconsider," Rice said of the flights that began again with frequency about six months ago. "This is not something that is just cost-free. Nobody needs Russian strategic aviation along America's coast."
At Tuesday's meeting, the NATO ministers will consider a range of upcoming activities planned with Russia - from military exercises to ministerial meetings - and decide case-by-case at the meeting Tuesday whether to go ahead or cancel each.
They will also discuss support for a planned international monitoring mission in the region and a package of support to help Georgia rebuild infrastructure damaged in its devastating defeat at the hands of the Russian armed forces.
And, she suggested that Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, who signed an E.U.-backed cease-fire brokered by the French, may be unable to exert power behind the scenes against his powerful predecessor, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, or the Russian military.
She said she thought the French would be seeking "an explanation from the Russians for why the Russian president either won't or can't keep his word."
"It didn't take that long for the Russian forces to get in and it really shouldn't take that long for them to get out," Rice said.
Amid worsening relations with Moscow, NATO ministers were expected to review a range of military, ministerial and other upcoming activities planned with Russia - and decide on a case by case basis whether to cancel each activity.
Russian troops and tanks have controlled a wide swath of Georgia for days. They also began a campaign to disable the Georgian military, destroying or carting away large caches of military equipment.
Two senior U.S. officials said on condition of anonymity Monday that intelligence also showed the Russian military had moved several SS-21 missile launchers into South Ossetia, in range of Tbilisi.
The move Friday allows Russia to pull out of Georgia proper as promised, but punish Tbilisi at any moment with the push of a button. Experts said it is the same weapon system used in October 1999, when missiles slammed into the Chechen capital of Grozny and killed at least 140 people.
All of the missiles that were fired into Georgia during the conflict were fired from Russian territory, one of the administration officials said.
Defense Department spokesman Bryan Whitman declined to confirm the report of the missile launchers, but said such positioning would be prohibited by the cease-fire that Russia agreed to.
"Anything such as that, or any other military equipment that was moved in, would be in violation of the cease-fire and should be removed immediately," Whitman said.
Meanwhile, Dmitry Rogozin, Russia's ambassador to NATO, warned that an anti-Russian propaganda campaign could jeopardize existing security cooperation. "We hope that tomorrow's decisions by NATO will be balanced and that responsible forces in the West will give up the total cynicism that has been so evident (which) is pushing us back to the Cold War era," he told reporters Monday.
Washington has denied Rogozin's claims that it is out to wreck the NATO-Russia Council - a consultative panel set up in 2002 to improve relations between the former Cold War foes.
"We don't want to destroy the NATO-Russia Council, but Russia's actions have called into question the premise of the NATO-Russia relationship," U.S. Ambassador Kurt Volker said ahead of the NATO talks.
The SS-21 SCARAB (9K79 Tochka) single-stage, short-range, tactical-ballistic missile is transported and fired from the 9P129 6x6 wheeled transporter erector launcher. It is supported by a tactical transloader (9T218) and a 9T238 missile transporter trailer towed by a ZIL-131 truck. The 9P129 TEL crew compartment is in the forward section and the missile compartment behind. During transport the missile is enclosed with the warhead in a temperature-controlled casing.
The SS-21 SCARAB missile (9M79) has a maximum range of 70 km and a CEP of 160 meters, while the improved composite propellant 9M79-1 (Tochka-U) has a maximum range of 120 km. The basic warhead is the 9N123F HE-Frag warhead which has 120 kg of high explosives. The 9N123K submunition warhead can probably carry either bomblets or mines. The SS-21 can also carry the AA60 tactical nuclear warhead. Other warheads are believed to include chemical, terminally guided warhead, and a smart-munition bomblet warhead. In 1981, the SS-21, a guided missile (providing improvement in both range and accuracy), began replacing the FROG in forward-deployed divisions, and 140 are were deployed as of 1988. Division-level SS-21 battalions were being consolidated into brigades in Soviet armies in East Germany.
On 21 October 1999 US satellites [reportedly the Defense Support Program] tracked two Russian short-range ballistic missile launched from the Russian city of Mozdok some 60 miles northeast of Grozny. The missiles slammed into a crowded Grozny marketplace and a maternity ward, killing at least 143 persons, according to reports from the region. The missiles are believed by intelligence analysts to have been SS-21s.
The final seizure of the city was set in early February 2000, when the Russian military lured the besieged militants to a promised safe passage. Seeing that there was no build-up of forces outside, the militants agreed. One day prior to the planned evacuation, the Russian Army mined the path between the city and the village of Alkhan-Kala and concentrated most firepower on that point. As a result, both the city mayor and military commander were killed; a number of other prominent separatist leaders were also killed or wounded, including Shamil Basayev and several hundred rank-and-file militants. Afterwards, the Russians slowly entered the empty city and on February 6 raised the Russian flag in the centre. Many buildings and even whole areas of the city were systematically dynamited. A month later, it was declared safe to allow the residents to return to their homes, although demolishing continued for some time. In 2003 the United Nations called Grozny the most destroyed city on earth.[3]
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Close Window Russia claims pullback but forces move other way Monday, August 18, 2008 GORI, Georgia - Russia said Monday it had begun withdrawing from the conflict zone in Georgia, but it held fast to key positions and sent some of its troops in the opposite direction - closer to the Georgian capital.
Russian troops and vehicles roamed freely around the strategically located central city of Gori, Russian forces appeared to blow up the runway at a military base in the western town of Senaki.
There were few signs Russia was following the terms of a cease-fire to end the short war, which has driven tensions between Russia and the West to some of their highest levels since the breakup of the Soviet Union.
In Paris, the French foreign minister said it appeared "we are witnessing the start" of a Russian withdrawal, but warned France would call an emergency meeting of the European Council to talk about consequences for Russia if that was not the case.
But U.S. defense and military officials said they had seen no significant movement yet of Russian troops withdrawing from Georgia.
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, on her way to an emergency meeting of NATO foreign ministers, said Russia was playing a "very dangerous game and perhaps one the Russians want to reconsider."
She said the United States and its allies would not allow Russia to draw a "new line" through Europe and intimidate former Soviet republics and former satellite states.
The foreign ministers were set to meet Tuesday in Brussels, Belgium, to consider whether to go ahead with upcoming activities planned with Russia, from military exercises to diplomatic meetings.
The European Union-brokered peace plan signed by both Russian President Dmitry Medvedev and Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili calls for both sides to pull forces back to the positions they held before fighting broke out Aug. 7. Medvedev had told French President Nicolas Sarkozy on Sunday that Russian troops would begin pulling back on Monday, but stopped short of promising they would return to Russia.
Russia sent its tanks and troops into Georgia after Georgia cracked down on the separatist, pro-Russian province of South Ossetia. Fighting has also flared in a second breakaway region, Abkhazia.
In Moscow, the deputy chief of the Russian general staff, Col.-Gen. Anatoly Nogovitsyn, told a briefing that "today, according to the peace plan, the withdrawal of Russian peacekeepers and reinforcements has begun" and said forces were leaving Gori.
But Russian tanks and troops roamed freely around the city and made forays toward the Georgian capital of Tbilisi, 55 miles to the southeast. Russia also kept control of the critical highway that slices through Georgia's midsection.
AP reporters saw four Russian armored personnel carriers, each carrying about 15 men, rolling from Gori to Igoeti, a crossroads town even closer to Tbilisi, passing Georgian soldiers who sat by the roadside.
The Russians moved into Igoeti then turned off onto a side road. As the Russian vehicles rolled past a group of Georgian soldiers and policemen, one swerved and scraped a new Georgian police car. The Georgians looked down at their fingernails.
U.S. officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were discussing intelligence reports, said at least one Russian battalion equipped with more than a dozen SS-21 missile launchers had moved into South Ossetia, within range of Tbilisi. Nogovitsyn disputed the claim.
The RIA-Novosti news agency reported that the leader of South Ossetia, Eduard Kokoity, asked Russia on Monday to establish a permanent base there.
Nogovitsyn said the Russian troops were pulling back to South Ossetia, but the boundaries of the Russian presence remained unclear. He said "troops should not be in the territory of Georgia," but it was unclear whether that excluded patrols.
Russian troops were restricting access to Gori, where shops were shut and people milled around on the central square.
"The city is a cold place now. People are fearful," said Nona Khizanishvili, 44, who fled Gori a week ago for an outlying village and returned Monday, trying to reach her son in Tbilisi.
Georgia's Rustavi-2 television showed footage of a Russian armored vehicle smashing through a group of Georgian police cars barricading the road to Gori on Monday. One of the cars was dragged along the street by the Russian armor. Georgian police stood by without even raising their guns as the Russian vehicle crushed through the roadblock.
In Senaki, a series of explosions were heard from the military base in the afternoon. Later, three separate blasts that appeared to destroy the airport runway shook the leaves on trees more than a mile away.
Georgian Interior Ministry spokesman Shota Utiashvili said Russian forces had blown up the runway. There was no confirmation from Russian military officials.
Earlier, Russian troops had allowed displaced people to get to the base to retrieve their belongings. Cars emerged loaded with goods, including televisions and refrigerators.
A planned exchange of prisoners captured during the fighting fell through, with each sides blaming the other. It was not clear how many prisoners were to be exchanged. Georgian officials another attempt could take place Tuesday.
In Vladikavkaz, near the border with Georgia, Medvedev gave medals to 30 soldiers and servicemen involved in the conflict. He called them heroes and said they had fought "a cowardly aggression.
"I am sure that such a well conducted, effective peacemaking operation aimed at protecting our citizens and other people will be among the most glorious deeds of the Russian military," Medvedev said.
While Western leaders have called Russia's response disproportionate, Medvedev repeated Russian accusations of genocide.
"The world realized that even now there are political freaks who were ready to kill innocent people for the sake of political fashions and who compensated for their own stupidity by eliminating a whole nation," he said.
An Associated Press cameraman was slightly injured outside Gori after four men in camouflage, possibly from an Ossetian militia, pulled up in a car and told him to stop filming.
When the cameraman resisted, the driver produced a pistol and started shooting at the ground. The cameraman, who sustained light ricochet wounds to his legs, handed over the cassette.
The Pentagon said that up to five C-130 aircraft are expected to fly into Georgia Tuesday with supplies, and that three had landed Monday as part of the relief effort. In addition to food, medical aid, tents and bedding, the U.S. is sending forklifts to help unload and move the supplies.
The United Nations refugee agency said more than 158,000 people had been displaced by the conflict, most of them within Georgia.
"I think the Russians will pull out, but will damage Georgia strongly," said Givi Sikharulidze, who lives in Tbilisi. "Georgia will survive, but Russia has lost its credibility in the eyes of the world."
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