posted
I already said they do have a say so imo... in no way have I seen Bush or any American saying Ossetia does not have the right to breakaway... the issue is Georgia being invaded and not Ossetia's right to breakaway for us...
you didn't look then, he's been saying it since this stuff started..
furthermore? Georgia and Ossentia agreed to Russia brokering a peace settelment right before Georgi started this recent set of battle...
-------------------- Of the People, by the People and For the People. Posts: 27931 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Right now AK's but watch over time what else will creep it's way into Chavez land from Russia & were not doing anything about it but your defending Russia's right to do something about Poland etc.
LOL... AK's V ballistic missile interceptors? that's laughable.
when it get's worse? we'll put a stop to it and fast, just like Russia is trying to do now...
-------------------- Of the People, by the People and For the People. Posts: 27931 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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you didn't look then, he's been saying it since this stuff started..
furthermore? Georgia and Ossentia agreed to Russia brokering a peace settelment right before Georgi started this recent set of battle...
I haven't seen him say that Ossetia should belong to Georgia.. not once... I'm not saying he didn't say it but i am saying I didn't see him say it in any media outlet... guess I missed that but feel free to show me his words...
As for the Georgia/Ossetia/Russian brokering deal before the conflict... Haven't heard that neither and for some reason I do not think that Georgia would agree to Russia brokering such an agreement since they don't trust the Russkies... if anything they probably would agree to a neutral country doing it or the UN...
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posted
Bush says South Ossetia, Abkhazia belong to Georgia Xinhua, China - 6 hours ago 20 (Xinhua) -- US President George W. Bush said on Wednesday that the breakaway regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia belong to Georgia, pledging to ensure ... Bush Warnes Russia: Breakaway South Ossetia, Abkhazia Are Part of ... Voice of America Bush Calls Georgia ‘Under Siege’ New York Times Bush says breakaway provinces are part of Georgia The Associated Press The Canadian Press - ABC Online all 1,264 news articles »
-------------------- Of the People, by the People and For the People. Posts: 27931 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: LOL... AK's V ballistic missile interceptors? that's laughable.
when it get's worse? we'll put a stop to it and fast, just like Russia is trying to do now...
I didn't say what Chavez has now is a threat I just said that watch will happen over time... Russia is not only courting Venezuela but also is in talks with Cuba again... and don't be surprised if they will do same with Bolivia, Ecuador and Nicaragua with Daniel Ortega in power...
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posted
Haven't heard that neither and for some reason I do not think that Georgia would agree to Russia brokering such an agreement since they don't trust the Russkies...
run a date specific news search for Russia, Georgia and Aug 7 that's the day before Russia invaded...
i already posted BBC link here earlier...
BTW? i am not 'defending" Russia inany way. what i am trying to tell you is that "the tail is trying to wag the dog" AGAIN!
-------------------- Of the People, by the People and For the People. Posts: 27931 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: Bush says South Ossetia, Abkhazia belong to Georgia Xinhua, China - 6 hours ago 20 (Xinhua) -- US President George W. Bush said on Wednesday that the breakaway regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia belong to Georgia, pledging to ensure ... Bush Warnes Russia: Breakaway South Ossetia, Abkhazia Are Part of ... Voice of America Bush Calls Georgia ‘Under Siege’ New York Times Bush says breakaway provinces are part of Georgia The Associated Press The Canadian Press - ABC Online all 1,264 news articles »
One article from one unbiased media outlet...
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: Bush says South Ossetia, Abkhazia belong to Georgia Xinhua, China - 6 hours ago 20 (Xinhua) -- US President George W. Bush said on Wednesday that the breakaway regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia belong to Georgia, pledging to ensure ... Bush Warnes Russia: Breakaway South Ossetia, Abkhazia Are Part of ... Voice of America Bush Calls Georgia ‘Under Siege’ New York Times Bush says breakaway provinces are part of Georgia The Associated Press The Canadian Press - ABC Online all 1,264 news articles »
One article from one unbiased media outlet...
there's no such thing as an ubiased media outlet...
VOA is the US govt tho..
i heard him say it on TV several times...
-------------------- Of the People, by the People and For the People. Posts: 27931 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Next you'll ask for two... Ok ok.. just one article written by an unbiased plutonian who frequents Jupiter on only wednessdays. Just one.. then I'll believe.
Posts: 1612 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: US President George W Bush reiterated on Wednesday that South Ossetia and another breakaway region, Abkhazia, remained part of Georgia http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7573585.stm
"the Moscow-backed separatist region of South Ossetia, triggering a counter-offensive by Russian troops who advanced beyond South Ossetia into Georgia's heartland."
"Georgia says its action was in response to continuous provocation."
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: Next you'll ask for two... Ok ok.. just one article written by an unbiased plutonian who frequents Jupiter on only wednessdays. Just one.. then I'll believe.
You really should read my posts more carefully... I never said I didn't believe Bush said such a thing... I said I never seen him say it and that it wasn't to say he didn't say it... now that you and Glass showed me and made your point... go have a double scotch on the rocks and cool down... your starting to resemble PMS...
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Yes, hearing Bush more then 10 seconds is torture... but anyways again I never said he didn't say it just that i never saw him myself say it... till now... regardless of what he is saying my stance is still that Ossetia has the right to breakaway as did Kosovo... but that Moscow did manipulate Georgia into attacking in order to have a excuse to get involved militarily and go into Georgia to flex it's muscles... much like they occupy Crimea region in the Ukraine for intimidation purposes waiting for the Ukraine to agree to join NATO...
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posted
Who is manipulating who? The US planting weapon systems and training armies in any bordering state isn't manipulating?
Posts: 1612 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
I should clarify a bit in that I'm not necessarily taking Russia's side in this... I'm not claiming they are without guilt... But I am saying at this point.. the US is the bigger instigator.
Posts: 1612 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
and if Mexico tried to make a new "Warsaw Pact" with Putin? we'd be in Mexico City in 24 hours...
i'm not excusing Russia, what i'm doing is pointing out that the Russkie response is simply predictable, the chess game is not playing out any differently than anybody should expect, except the East Europeans who might have thought we could actually go and help them stop the Russkies from attacking with a few dozen F22's; we can't... ...
-------------------- Of the People, by the People and For the People. Posts: 27931 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: Next you'll ask for two... Ok ok.. just one article written by an unbiased plutonian who frequents Jupiter on only wednessdays. Just one.. then I'll believe.
You really should read my posts more carefully... I never said I didn't believe Bush said such a thing... I said I never seen him say it and that it wasn't to say he didn't say it... now that you and Glass showed me and made your point... go have a double scotch on the rocks and cool down... your starting to resemble PMS...
Mach, just cause you're not doing so hot on this one is no reason for calling me a knuckle dragging mouth breathing government parrot... Just low Posts: 1612 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: Who is manipulating who? The US planting weapon systems and training armies in any bordering state isn't manipulating?
That's not behind the scenes manipulation.... that is direct and publicly participation...
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Greed, for the lack of a better word is GOOD. Posts: 3883 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: I should clarify a bit in that I'm not necessarily taking Russia's side in this... I'm not claiming they are without guilt... But I am saying at this point.. the US is the bigger instigator.
you not taking Russia's side could of fooled me... as for the US being the bigger instigator... sorry don't see it... it's Russia's flexing it's muscles in that region and i don't mean just now but in the past few years starting with it's occupation of Crimea as well as it's assassination attempt of the Ukraine's Presidentional candidate (and now current President)...
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: and if Mexico tried to make a new "Warsaw Pact" with Putin? we'd be in Mexico City in 24 hours...
I doubt it... if anything under Bush were chickens to take on Superpowers and near superpowers... we'll attack weak nations like Iraq but not obvious threats like Russia, N. Korea, Iran etc.. so the Mexico City scenario would leave us with our military at our border and that's about it... Bush is a chicken in that regards...
quote:i'm not excusing Russia, what i'm doing is pointing out that the Russkie response is simply predictable, the chess game is not playing out any differently than anybody should expect, except the East Europeans who might have thought we could actually go and help them stop the Russkies from attacking with a few dozen F22's; we can't... ...
Yah, your excusing them from the get go...
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Greed, for the lack of a better word is GOOD. Posts: 3883 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: Mach, just cause you're not doing so hot on this one is no reason for calling me a knuckle dragging mouth breathing government parrot... Just low
On the contrary I am doing just fine on this issue.... I showed Russia is a coming threat on our own hemisphere, used your own article to show Ossetia's militia is "Moscow-backed" , Georgia was being provoked, the pipelines would run through Georgia bypassing Russia etc. etc.
As for your description of PMS, funny thing is he calls you the same thing in not so many words... pop that Johnny Walker Gold from your cabinet and pass it around with some ice... it's on you....
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posted
I never said Ossetia's military wasn't Russia backed.. of course they are.. THEY WANT TO BE RUSSIAN. My point is and has been that we would act exactly the same if Russia was doing this to us.. I do have just a smidgen of proof for that statement. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis
The funny thing is that your current attitude is just as smug as that article you posted... And just as wrong.
Posts: 1612 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
Back to Story - Help US, Poland OK missile defense base, riling Moscow By VANESSA GERA and MONIKA SCISLOWSKA, Associated Press Writers Wed Aug 20, 6:09 PM ET
The United States and Poland signed a deal Wednesday to place a U.S. missile defense base just 115 miles from Russia — a move followed swiftly by a new warning from Moscow of a possible military response.
For many Poles — whose country has been a staunch U.S. ally — the accord represented what they believed would be a guarantee of safety for themselves in the face of a newly assertive Russia.
Negotiators sealed the deal last week against a backdrop of Russian military action in Georgia, a former Soviet republic turned U.S. ally, that has worried former Soviet satellites across eastern Europe. It prompted Moscow's sharpest rhetoric yet over the system, which it contends is aimed at Russia despite Washington's insistence the site is purely defensive.
After Wednesday's signing, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice dismissed any suggestion the 10 missile defense interceptors — which Washington says are intended to defend Europe and the U.S. from the possible threat of long-distance missiles from Iran — represent a threat to Russia.
"Missile defense, of course, is aimed at no one," Rice said. "It is in our defense that we do this."
She denounced an earlier threat from a Russian general to target NATO member Poland, possibly even with nuclear weapons, for accepting the facility.
Such comments "border on the bizarre, frankly," Rice told reporters in Warsaw. "The Russians are losing their credibility," she said, adding that Moscow would pay a price for its actions in Georgia, though she did not specify how.
"It's also the case that when you threaten Poland, you perhaps forget that it is not 1988," Rice said. "It's 2008 and the United States has a ... firm treaty guarantee to defend Poland's territory as if it was the territory of the United States. So it's probably not wise to throw these threats around."
Poland has been a staunch U.S. ally in both Iraq and Afghanistan. It sent combat troops into Iraq as part of the U.S.-led coalition and had 2,300 troops deployed there at its peak. That has been reduced to about 900, who will be pulled out in October. At the same time, Poland has been building up its military presence in Afghanistan, where it currently has some 1,600 troops.
Hours after the signing, Russia's Foreign Ministry warned that Moscow's response would go beyond diplomacy. The system to be based in Poland lacks "any target other than Russian intercontinental ballistic missiles," it said in a statement, contending the U.S. system "will be broadened and modernized."
"In this case Russia will be forced to react, and not only through diplomatic" channels, it said without elaborating.
Democratic Rep. Ellen Tauscher, who leads a key appropriations panel for missile defense, praised the deal. But she said that Democratic lawmakers intend to withhold funding for the interceptors planned for Poland until they are properly tested, a move that could delay the deployment for years.
The deal follows an earlier agreement to place the second component of the missile defense shield — a radar tracking system — in the neighboring Czech Republic, another formerly communist country now in NATO.
"We have achieved our main goals, which means that our country and the United States will be more secure," Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk told Rice after the signing.
Many Poles agreed. "After what happened in Georgia, I believe that this is good protection for us," said Kazimierz Dziuba, 49, a hospital worker in Warsaw.
The Georgian conflict "made the Americans agree to this deal sooner because the Russians are getting too bossy," Dziuba said.
Not all Poles were happy, however.
Alina Kesek, an 82-year-old retired office clerk who lived through World War II, when Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union divided Poland between them, and then experienced four decades of Moscow-dominated communist rule, said the Patriot missiles were a "kind of provocation" toward Russia.
"This means a threat from the Russian side," said Kesek. "I am not very pleased with this deal."
Some residents in the northern Polish town of Redzikowo, where the missile defense facility will be located, fear it may expose them to retaliatory attacks or other dangers.
Along with the main deal, the two nations signed a so-called "declaration on strategic cooperation," which is to deepen their military and political partnership.
It includes a mutual commitment to come to each other's assistance immediately if one is under attack — enhancing existing obligations both have as NATO members.
The declaration also was accompanied by a promise from the U.S. to help modernize Poland's armed forces and to place a battery of Patriot missiles there by 2012.
Rice said the deal "will help both the alliance and Poland and the United States respond to the coming threats."
Poland and the United States spent a year and a half in formal talks, which snagged in the final phase on Poland's demands for the Patriot missiles and other points.
However, the deepening U.S.-Polish friendship dominated Wednesday's proceedings.
"In troubled times the most important thing is to have friends," Rice said. "But it is more important to have friends who share your values and your aspirations and your dreams. And Poland and the United States are those kind of friends."
Approval for the missile defense sites is still needed from the Czech and Polish parliaments. No date has been set for lawmakers in Warsaw to vote, but the deal enjoys the support of the largest opposition party as well as of the government.
____
Associated Press writers Matthew Lee, traveling with Rice, and Desmond Butler in Washington contributed to this report.
Posts: 6008 | From: phoenix az | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: I never said Ossetia's military wasn't Russia backed.. of course they are.. THEY WANT TO BE RUSSIAN. My point is and has been that we would act exactly the same if Russia was doing this to us.. I do have just a smidgen of proof for that statement. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis
The funny thing is that your current attitude is just as smug as that article you posted... And just as wrong.
Again the difference is that the Poland situation is not Nuclear missiles like the Cuban Missile crisis was... so i doubt we would react like that over non-nuclear weapons... we haven't still with Russia supplying Chavez... so as they say in Family Feud : XXX
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should expect, except the East Europeans who might have thought we could actually go and help them stop the Russkies from attacking with a few dozen F22's; we can't...![[Smile]](smile.gif)
