posted
First time ever in Scotland in 1996 and in Germany in 2002. Since then and before that nothing here in Europe.
It's a joke! In the US everybody can buy guns everywhere. But if you're 16, 17 or 18 and in possession of beer or marijuana...well, you know it better than me.
posted
You guys seem to be suggesting that, in order to protect ourselves from the nut cases whose possible future anti-social actions we can't predict, we should eagerly treat us all like prospective criminals after the trial.
Hey, lets all get together and pass a passel of new law to give the cops the power to stop this! NOW!!!
Before we reach that conclusion, couldn't we please be quite specific in exactly what we mean by such things as to whom and what is to be protected against?
I'm afraid, in the excited aura of fear and revenge, for things we can't fathom anyone doing, we are getting a bit close to moving for provisions that stiffle the rights and freedoms that make us a worthwhile society.
Locally, there has recently been a case where a couple's home was invaded, via a search warrant, and the couple cited for keeping and tending to several dozen animals in violation of city regulations (a criminal violation). The animals were "confiscated", though it was clear that none had been mistreated, abused, stolen, or in anyway illegally or improperly obtained or treated. Indeed, these animals were kept in immaculate and loving circumstances and in a way that posed no harm to or danger to anyone or anything (treated like much loved children). Most are now to be "put down", which no doubt each would prefer to their prior conditions.
There is no doubt that, in composing the ordinances that permitted the police power to invade that home, the city's attorneys provided a legally proper wording to the city fathers, who, in turn, passed it into law with the best of intentions, in order to make it illegal to fail to provide appropriate and healthy upkeep to pets and other animals. But following a law, which is a power granted to any law enforcement official, failed hopelessly to serve its intended purpose and, in this case, has done quite the opposite. Those animals now will NOT recieve loving healty upkeep.
My point is that you cannot assure me or us that the enforcers of any law won't be (perhaps even unwittingly) among the dangerous crackpots that society needs to be wary of and to whom deny the chance to destroy lives. Laws should be scarce on the ground.
Given a statute, there is among those that are authorized to enforce it, those that shouldn't be granted that power and WILL ABUSE IT (whether it be from innocent ignorance or malicious intent). Consider the Duke rape case.
IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Persia: First time ever in Scotland in 1996 and in Germany in 2002. Since then and before that nothing here in Europe.
It's a joke! In the US everybody can buy guns everywhere. But if you're 16, 17 or 18 and in possession of beer or marijuana...well, you know it better than me.
Other way around here in Europe.
it happened in Australia and several times in Cananda too Persia... they both have stricter gun laws too.. when you outlaw guns? only outlaws have guns.
sadly? there is a pattern of young males from other countries going on rampages like this...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
IP: Logged |
posted
Quite simply, there are too many people in the world.
Studies of over population (with or without hunger) in any and all varieties of animals show this trend to violent irrational anti-social acts by individuals and small groups.
IP: Logged |
posted
Some reports saying gunman was South Korean, others saying he was Chinese... All are saying he arrived at university recently on a student visa.
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example.
IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by rimasco: Its starting to look like somewhat of a columbine copycat...
A friend of the shooter said he plyed the game "DOOM" alot which Klepold and the other azz-clown played as well.
They also said that the largest school shooting previos to this one was in Germany, where 16 were left dead. They said in that case as well they found 50 shoot'em up games in the murderers home.
I love shoot 'em up games and listen to metal music, I would never hurt an innocent person. I am convinced these things have nothing to do with why he did this.
IP: Logged |
posted
C'mon Hannibull, it is pretty clear that the shooters were merely psychological victims of America's violent pop-culture....... These people are victims of a society obsessed with violence, guns and video games. They cannot be blamed for their actions. YOU AND SOCIETY ARE TO BLAME for not taking action to BAN GUNS and VIOLENT VIDEO GAMES. YOU ARE TO BLAME for making them do what they did. I suggest you use your anger and emotion regarding this incident to motivate you to take action and stop this kind of thing from ever happening again. DONT THINK, ACT.
[/Sarcasm]
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example.
IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by glassman: comeon bdgee, you and i both know for a fact that students on visa are under double or even triple the strain of the avg American student...
i'm surprised he was not a grad student...
grad students stress levels are doubled again becaase their visa's are usually held by their principal professor....
i saw grad students work 100 plus hours a week for years on end at UCR, even tho the state law specifically forbids it...
i can't tell you how many Profs have made off-hand comments about hiring "cheap foreign labor"
Yes!!!
It is down right sinful and evil. I can speak with some actual knowledge, not as an observer, but both as a grad student (not foreigh, though) and as the professor.
I worked those 100+ hour weeks as a student, trying to reach the level of achievement that would mean sucess. I did it again and again as a professor. It isn't abnormal in that environment. However, no one required me to do that much work or any ....... it was by choice.
My vote on the faculty was always to not allow the "use" of graduate students and their efforts to be permissible, either by statement or by fact of "other" requirements, particularly with rspect to foreign students. My side was uniformly out voted on that concern, with the most common reason stated being that foreign students had to follow orders or chance loosing their fellowships or their visas (in other words, they approved of slavery if it was a foreign student....or more correctly, whenever they could get away with it).
It constitutes a terribly bad attitude that, in the long run, destroys any hope or semblance of an "environment conducive to research" that is actually the foundation of graduate study. It creates automatons, who go on to destroy yet another generation of schollars.
IP: Logged |
posted
when google first got REALLY powerful? one of the fisrt things i used it for was it to determine which Professors (in the field we were concerned about) were actually graduating students and getting them promoted into positions with meaning and impact...
it wasn't hard to refine searches once you developed the names (dataset) from older papers... what i found was astounding... some of the biggest names in the field (we were concerned about) were in fact using people up as fast as they could recruit them... i am talking about people who regularly get 6 and 7 figure grants from NIH...
we also noticed that some Profs were in fact on EVERY paper their "friends" were on.... since we were intimately aware of who was actually doing what work? we knew they were simply putting hte names on to increase references... Crichton addresses some of this in his latest book Next which is apparently not the same Next as the movie coming out with Nick Cage at the end of this month...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
IP: Logged |
Suddenly, the door swung open and the shooter, described as an Asian man wearing a jacket and a maroon baseball cap, mechanically opened fire, reloaded his handgun and then started shooting again, O’Dell said.
"He was very quick in reloading, so it looked like he’d been trained," said the 20-year-old biological sciences student.
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example.
IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by glassman: when google first got REALLY powerful? one of the fisrt things i used it for was it to determine which Professors (in the field we were concerned about) were actually graduating students and getting them promoted into positions with meaning and impact...
it wasn't hard to refine searches once you developed the names (dataset) from older papers... what i found was astounding... some of the biggest names in the field (we were concerned about) were in fact using people up as fast as they could recruit them... i am talking about people who regularly get 6 and 7 figure grants from NIH...
we also noticed that some Profs were in fact on EVERY paper their "friends" were on.... since we were intimately aware of who was actually doing what work? we knew they were simply putting hte names on to increase references... Crichton addresses some of this in his latest book Next which is apparently not the same Next as the movie coming out with Nick Cage at the end of this month...
I studied and still work in a "school of schollarchip and research" in which having multiple authors on a paper is not in fashion. I do have a couple of joint authorships, but more that are not. I once worked in scientific areas wherein it was customary for the "boss" to affix his name to any publication that went out. I remember resigning my position and destroying all my notes after returning to town from a research conference and learning that some of my work had been sent to publication under the names of a collection of the people in the lab, but not with mine.
I do not accept any excuse for plagerism! It is theft.
IP: Logged |
posted
It isn't so new as the media wants (maybe believes) it to be.
I recall a day of high school long ago when we were marched out to the football practice field while the cops searched for a non-existant bomb they were told about over the phone.
Eventually, it was discovered that a student trying to delay a promised major exam in a history class had made the call.
I also remember the way too frequent "atomic bomb drills" we were forced to practice to keep us in fear of the dreaded and assured attacks that WOULD come from communist.
I seem to recall constant loud calls back then to attack first, because it would be better to fight there than here in our own back yard..
quote:Originally posted by glassman: rim, i was a beta tester for Need for Speed high stakes online. i spent a good bit of time on it. i got ranked at 80th of over 100,000 peeps... (most of the people ahead of me were employees at EA and cheated LOL)
since i already had a propensity to drive too fast? i won't comment beyond saying that i still never got any speeding tickets after playing..
Hey, did you see the movie Grandma's Boy?... Grey-Bush.
Its an Adam Sandler production...I think you'll like it....
-------------------- "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
IP: Logged |
posted
Sources told ABC News that after Cho killed the one female and one male at West Ambler Johnston Monday morning, he returned to his own dorm room where he re-armed and left a "disturbing note" before entering Norris Hall on the other side of campus to continue his rampage and kill 30 more before shooting himself.
The Chicago Tribune reported that the note included a rambling list of grievances that railed against "rich kids," "debauchery" and "deceitful charlatans" on campus. The paper also reported that Cho died with the words "Ismail Ax" in red ink on the inside of one of his arms.
Quoting an "investigative source," the newspaper said Cho had shown recent signs of violent, aberrant behavior, including setting a fire in a dorm room and allegedly stalking some women, and that he was taking medication for depression. The Tribune also reported that Cho's family runs a dry cleaning business and he has a sister who atatended Princeton University. Cho and his family came to the United States in 1992, when he was 8 years old.
Law enforcement officials told ABCNews.com that Cho bought his first gun, a Glock 9mm handgun, on March 13; they say he bought his second weapon, a 22-caliber handgun, within the last week. The serial number
IP: Logged |
posted
Campus Threats Force Lockdowns at 3 Universities, 2 Public Schools Tuesday, April 17, 2007
E-MAIL STORY PRINTER FRIENDLY VERSION AUSTIN, Texas — Campus threats forced lock-downs and evacuations at universities in Texas, Oklahoma and Tennessee and two public schools in Louisiana on Tuesday, a day after a Virginia Tech student's shooting rampage killed 33 people.
In Louisiana, parents picked up hundreds of students from Bogalusa's high school and middle school amid reports that a man had been arrested Tuesday morning for threatening a mass killing in a note that alluded to the murders at Virginia Tech.
Schools Superintendent Jerry Payne said both schools were locked down and police arrested a 53-year-old man who allegedly made the threat in a note he gave to a student headed to the private Bowling Green School in Franklinton, in southwestern Louisiana.
"The note referred to what happened at Virginia Tech," Payne said. "It said something like, 'If you think that was bad, then you haven't seen anything yet."
In Austin, authorities evacuated buildings at St. Edward's University after a threatening note was found, a school official said.
Police secured the campus perimeter and were searching the buildings, St. Edward's University spokeswoman Mischelle Amador said. She declined to say where the note was found and said its contents were "nonspecific."
IP: Logged |
posted
Posted from a user on another forum. This post also was out before the media knew the make of both pistols which later came out to be true according to this post.
A little background; apparently the Korean destroyed both serial numbers on both guns, but was not smart enough to destroy the reciept for both.
"Holy **** guys, I thought the guy was lying.. I knew this guys first name and about the receipt and **** from a message board I read yesterday.
The website is currently down, but the guy posted this:
"Well, I'm screwed. They found a receipt in the gunman's pocket indicating that he bought the gun from me in March. ATF is at my shop right now. See you later, I'm on my way to the shop right now."
"Call BS all you like, but I just spent the last several hours with 3 ATF agents. I saw the shooter's picture. I know his name and home address. I also know that he used a Glock 19 and a Walther P-22. The serial number was ground off the Glock. Why would he do that and still keep the receipt in his pocket from when he bought the gun? ATF told me that they are going to keep this low-key and not report this to the tv news. However, they cautioned that it will leak out eventually, and that I should be ready to deal with CNN, FOX, etc. My 32 camera surveillance system recorded the event 35 days ago. This is a digital system that only keeps the video for 35 days. We got lucky. By the way, the paperwork for Mr. Cho was perfect, thank God."
Mr. Cho had proof of Virginia residency, checkbook (for a second ID), and his green card(which is, of course, not green). That is all he needed to purchase a handgun.
posted
This guy had been here almost his whole life. Certainly he has been here so long that it is probable he had no attachment to the culture of his early childhood (and little memory of it).
We need to drop all reference to his "blood lines" or race. He was an American and nothing else, by habit and routine, if no other way. We won't get to any rational or usable conclusions about this tragedy by allowing it to rest on his life before coming to the U.S. All that cedes is a pile of bigotry.
(I never liked the idea of any racial or cultural designations to modify aqmerican anyway. Let's be proud of what we are and forget what we could have been had we not been here.)
IP: Logged |
posted
It was becoming a political toy before Rosey chimed in. Get your devils in line.
Hell, this is already just another bit of foder for the rightwingers talk shows, as is almost anything they can blame on someone that isn't a Party loyalist.
IP: Logged |
Gunman in Virginia Tech massacre had raised concerns with his disturbing writings
By: ADAM GELLER - Associated Press
BLACKSBURG, Va. -- The gunman suspected of carrying out the Virginia Tech massacre that left 33 people dead was identified Tuesday as an English major whose creative writing was so disturbing that he was referred to the school's counseling service.
News reports also said that he may have been taking medication for depression, that he was becoming increasingly violent and erratic, and that he left a note in his dorm in which he railed against "rich kids," "debauchery" and "deceitful charlatans" on campus.
Cho Seung-Hui, a 23-year-old senior, arrived in the United States as boy from South Korea in 1992 and was raised in suburban Washington, D.C., officials said. He was living on campus in a different dorm from the one where Monday's bloodbath began.
Police and university officials offered no clues as to exactly what set him off on the deadliest shooting rampage in modern U.S. history.
"He was a loner, and we're having difficulty finding information about him," school spokesman Larry Hincker said.
Professor Carolyn Rude, chairwoman of the university's English department, said she did not personally know the gunman. But she said she spoke with Lucinda Roy, the department's director of creative writing, who had Cho in one of her classes and described him as "troubled."
"There was some concern about him," Rude said. "Sometimes, in creative writing, people reveal things and you never know if it's creative or if they're describing things, if they're imagining things or just how real it might be. But we're all alert to not ignore things like this."
She said Cho was referred to the counseling service, but she said she did not know when, or what the outcome was. Rude refused to release any of his writings or his grades, citing privacy laws.
The Chicago Tribune reported on its Web site that he left a note in his dorm room that included a rambling list of grievances. Citing unidentified sources, the Tribune said he had recently shown troubling signs, including setting a fire in a dorm room and stalking some women.
ABC, citing law enforcement sources, reported that the note, several pages long, explains Cho's actions and says, "You caused me to do this."
Investigators believe Cho at some point had been taking medication for depression, the Tribune reported.
The rampage consisted of two attacks, more than two hours apart -- first at a dormitory, where two people were killed, then inside a classroom building, where 31 people, including Cho, died after being locked inside, Virginia State Police said. Cho committed suicide; two guns were found in the classroom building.
One law enforcement official said Cho's backpack contained a receipt for a March purchase of a Glock 9 mm pistol. Cho held a green card, meaning he was a legal, permanent resident, federal officials said. That meant he was eligible to buy a handgun unless he had been convicted of a felony.
Investigators stopped short of saying Cho carried out both attacks. But ballistics tests show one gun was used in both, Virginia State Police said.
And two law enforcement officials, speaking on condition of anonymity because the information had not been announced, said Cho's fingerprints were found on both guns. The serial numbers on the two weapons had been filed off, the officials said.
Col. Steve Flaherty, superintendent of the Virginia State Police, said it was reasonable to assume that Cho was the shooter in both attacks but that the link was not yet definitive. "There's no evidence of any accomplice at either event, but we're exploring the possibility," he said.
Officials said Cho graduated from a public high school in Chantilly, Va., in 2003. His family lived in an off-white, two-story townhouse in Centreville, Va.
"He was very quiet, always by himself," neighbor Abdul Shash said. Shash said Cho spent a lot of his free time playing basketball and would not respond if someone greeted him. He described the family as quiet.
Virginia Tech Police issued a speeding ticket to Cho on April 7 for going 44 mph in a 25 mph zone, and he had a court date set for May 23.
South Korea expressed its condolences, and said it hoped that the tragedy would not "stir up racial prejudice or confrontation."
"We are in shock beyond description," said Cho Byung-se, a Foreign Ministry official handling North American affairs.
A memorial service was planned for the victims Tuesday afternoon at the university, and President Bush planned to attend. Gov. Tim Kaine was flying back to Virginia from Tokyo for the gathering.
Classes were canceled for the rest of the week.
Many students were leaving town quickly, lugging pillows, sleeping bags and backpacks down the sidewalks.
Jessie Ferguson, 19, a freshman from Arlington, left Newman Hall and headed for her car with tears streaming down her red cheeks.
"I'm still kind of shaky," she said. "I had to pump myself up just to kind of come out of the building. I was going to come out, but it took a little bit of 'OK, it's going to be all right. There's lots of cops around."'
Although she wanted to be with friends, she wanted her family more. "I just don't want to be on campus," she said.
The first deadly attack was at the dormitory around 7:15 a.m., but some students said they didn't get their first warning about a danger on campus until two hours later, in an e-mail at 9:26 a.m., around the time the second attack began.
Two students told NBC's "Today" show they were unaware of the dorm shooting when they walked into Norris Hall for a German class where the gunman later opened fire.
The victims in Norris Hall were found in four classrooms and a stairwell, Flaherty said. Cho was found dead in one of those classrooms, he said.
Derek O'Dell, his arm in a cast after being shot, described a shooter who fired away in "eerily silence" with "no specific target -- just taking out anybody he could."
After the gunman left the room, students could hear him shooting other people down the hall. O'Dell said he and other students barricaded the door so the shooter couldn't get back in -- though he later tried.
"After he couldn't get the door open he tried shooting it open ... but the gunshots were blunted by the door," O'Dell said.
Virginia Tech President Charles Steger emphasized that the university closed off the dorm after the first attack. He said that before the e-mail was sent, the university began telephoning resident advisers in the dorms and sent people to knock on doors to warn them.
"We can only make decisions based on the information you had at the time. You don't have hours to reflect on it," Steger said.
Until Monday, the deadliest shooting in modern U.S. history was in Killeen, Texas, in 1991, when George Hennard plowed his pickup truck into a Luby's Cafeteria and shot 23 people to death, then himself.
Previously, the deadliest campus shooting in U.S. history was a rampage that took place in 1966 at the University of Texas at Austin, where Charles Whitman climbed the clock tower and opened fire with a rifle from the 28th-floor observation deck. He killed 16 people before he was shot to death by police.
-- Associated Press writers Stephen Manning in Centreville, Va.; Matt Barakat in Richmond, Va.; and Vicki Smith, Sue Lindsey and Justin Pope in Blacksburg contributed to this report.
The Victims:
A list of some of the victims of the shootings at Virginia Tech:
Killed:
Ross Abdallah Alameddine, 20, of Saugus, Mass., according to his mother, Lynnette Alameddine.
Ryan Clark, 22, of Martinez, Ga., biology and English major, according to Columbia County Coroner Vernon Collins.
Daniel Perez Cueva, 21, killed in his French class, according to his mother, Betty Cueva, of Peru.
Kevin Granata, age unknown, engineering science and mechanics professor, according to Ishwar K. Puri, the head of the engineering science and mechanics department.
Caitlin Hammaren, 19, of Westtown, N.Y., a sophomore majoring in international studies and French, according to Minisink Valley, N.Y., school officials who spoke with Hammaren's family.
Jeremy Herbstritt, 27, of Bellefonte, Pa., according to Penn State University, his alma mater and his father's employer.
Emily Jane Hilscher, a 19-year-old freshman from Woodville, according to Rappahannock County Administrator John W. McCarthy, a family friend.
Jarrett L. Lane, according to Riffe's Funeral Service Inc. in Narrows, Va.
Liviu Librescu, 76, engineering science and mathematics lecturer, according to Puri.
G.V. Loganathan, 51, civil and environmental engineering professor, according to his brother G.V. Palanivel.
Juan Ramon Ortiz, a 26-year-old graduate student in engineering from Bayamon, Puerto Rico, according to his wife, Liselle Vega Cortes.
Mary Karen Read, 19, of Annandale, Va. according to her aunt, Karen Kuppinger, of Rochester, N.Y.
-------------------- The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits
IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
