posted
Gunman Opens Fire in Virginia Tech Dorm, Classroom, Killing at Least 30 People; Gunman Killed 04-16-2007 2:48 PM By SUE LINDSEY, Associated Press Writer
BLACKSBURG, Va. (Associated Press) -- A gunman opened fire in a Virginia Tech dorm and then, two hours later, in a classroom across campus Monday, killing at least 30 people in the deadliest shooting rampage in U.S. history, government officials told The Associated Press. The gunman was killed, bringing the death toll to 31.
"Today the university was struck with a tragedy that we consider of monumental proportions," said Virginia Tech president Charles Steger. "The university is shocked and indeed horrified."
It was not immediately clear whether the gunman was shot by police or took his own life. His name was not released, investigators offered no motive for the attack. It was not known if the gunman was a student.
The shootings spread panic and confusion on campus, with witnesses reporting students jumping out the windows of a classroom building to escape the gunfire. SWAT team members with helmets, flak jackets and assault rifles swarmed over the campus. Students and faculty members carried out some of the wounded themselves, without waiting for ambulances to arrive.
The massacre took place at opposite sides of the 2,600-acre campus, beginning at about 7:15 a.m. at West Ambler Johnston, a coed dormitory that houses 895 people, and continuing at least two hours later at Norris Hall, an engineering building about a half-mile away, authorities said.
Police said they were still investigating the shooting at the dorm when they got word of gunfire at the classroom building.
After the first shots were fired, students were warned to stay indoors and away from the windows. But some students said they thought the precautions had been lifted by the time the second burst of gunfire was heard, and some bitterly questioned why the gunman was able to strike a second time, two hours after the bloodshed began.
"What happened today this was ridiculous. And I don't know what happened or what was going through this guy's mind," student Jason Piatt told CNN. "But I'm pretty outraged and I'll say on the record I'm pretty outraged that someone died in a shooting in a dorm at 7 o'clock in the morning and the first e-mail about it _ no mention of locking down campus, no mention of canceling classes _ they just mention that they're investigating a shooting two hours later at 9:22."
He added: "That's pretty ridiculous and meanwhile, while they're sending out that e-mail, 22 more people got killed."
FBI spokesman Richard Kolko in Washington said there was no evidence to suggest it was a terrorist attack, "but all avenues will be explored."
Up until Monday, the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history was in Killeen, Texas, in 1991, when George Hennard drove his pickup into a Luby's Cafeteria and shot 23 people to death, then himself.
-------------------- All post are my opinion. Do your own DD. Who's clicking your buy/sell button!?
IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: Years ago, in a tavern in west Fort Worth, a drunk got into a fight and was ejected. He tried but couldn't find a gun to retaliate against the guy with whom he was angree. He went across the street and bought a gallon of gasoline and poured most of it in a glass jug, inserted a wad of shirt tail for a wick, lit the thing, and heaved it into the tavern from the front door.
The intended victim was in the restroom at the time and escaped unscratched through a small window into the alley way. Those inside the main tavern that didn't die were horribly disfigured for life.
The moral of this story is to ban glass bottles or any substitute that will shatter on empact. That's the reason all the soft dring and beer companies use plastic bottles or aluminum cans now. So stop riding them for being unconcerned with the environment and your safety.
Seems to me a thin plastic bottle or can is a heck of a lot cheaper than glass.
I'm not surprized. Even most high school drop outs know that. Most of them would have also noticed the shot of irony.
Ok, for those that can't on their own, I'll state the real intent of the post.
I would expect that the "eventual" death toll from the shootings today to continue to grow through years, as has been the case in other incidents of this kind.
(And I appologize for including notions that confuse some.)
posted
Major U.S. school shootings in the last 10 years:
Greenville, Texas. March 7, 2007. A 16-year-old male high school student fatally shot himself while in the band hallway area of the school around 7:15 a.m. No other students were injured. More than 100 parents rushed to the school to remove their students.
Tacoma, Wash. Jan. 3, 2007. An 18-year-old male high school student was arrested for shooting and killing a 17-year-old male student at their school. The suspect allegedly shot the victim in the face and then stood over him, firing twice more.
Springfield Township, Pa. Dec. 12, 2006. A 16-year-old male high school shot and killed himself with an AK-47 assault rifle in the hallway of his high school. The student, reportedly despondent over his grades, had the gun concealed in a camouflage duffle bag and fired one round in the ceiling to warn other students to get out of the way before committing suicide.
Katy, Texas. Oct. 17, 2006. A 16-year-old male high school sophomore committed suicide by shooting himself with a handgun in the school's cafeteria courtyard.
Cazenovia, Wis., Sept. 29, 2006. A student walked into a rural school with a pistol and a rifle and shot the principal several times, critically injuring him.
Bailey, Colo. Sept. 27, 2006. A lone gunman enters a high school and holds six female students hostage, sexually assaults them, kills one of them, and then himself after a four-hour standoff.
Pittsburgh, Pa. Sept. 17, 2006. Five Duquesne University basketball players are wounded after a shooting on campus after a dance. One of the two shooters was allegedly upset that his date had talked to one of the athletes.
Hillsborough, N.C. Aug. 30, 2006. After shooting his father to death, a student open fires at his high school, injuring two students. Deputies found guns, ammunition, and homemade pipe bombs in the student's car. The student had emailed Columbine High's principal, telling him that it was "time the world remembered" the shootings at Columbine.
Essex, Vt. Aug. 24, 2006. A gunman shoots five people, killing two of them, in a rampage through two houses and an elementary school, before wounding himself.
Red Lake Indian Reservation, Minn. March 21, 2005. The worst school-related shooting incident since the Columbine shootings in April of 1999. Ten killed (shooter killed nine and then himself) and seven injured in rampage by high school student.
Cumberland City, Tenn. March 2, 2005. School bus driver shot and killed while driving a school bus carrying approximately 20 students by a 14-year-old student who had been reported to administrators by the driver for chewing tobacco on the bus.
Nine Mile Falls, Wash. Dec. 10, 2004. A 16-year-old high school junior committed suicide at the high school's entryway. A canister holding fireworks, shotgun shells, and rifle cartridges was found in a backpack belonging to the student.
Joyce, Wash. March 17, 2004. A 13-year-old student shot and killed himself in a school classroom where about 20 other students were present. The boy reportedly brought a .22-caliber rifle hidden in a guitar case and pulled it out during the 10 a.m. class.
Philadelphia, Pa. Feb. 11, 2004. A 10-year-old student was shot in the face and died after being shot outside a Philadelphia elementary school. A 56-year-old female school crossing guard was also shot in the foot as she tried to scurry children across the street as bullets were flying and children were on the playground.
Washington, D.C. Feb. 2, 2004. A 17-year-old male high school student died after being shot several times and another student was injured after shots were fired near the school's cafeteria.
Henderson, Nev. Jan. 21, 2004. Gunman shoots and kills a hostage in his car on school campus. The gunman was allegedly looking for his ex-girlfriend as he searched the school full of children in an after-school program.
Cold Spring, Minn. Sept. 24, 2003. Two students shot and killed by a 15-year-old boy at Rocori High School.
Red Lion, Pa. April 24, 2003. Principal of Red Lion Area Junior High is fatally shot in the chest by a 14-year-old student, who then committed suicide, as students gather in the cafeteria for breakfast.
New Orleans, La. April 14, 2003. One 15-year-old killed and three students wounded at John McDonough High School by gunfire from four teenagers in a gang-related shooting.
October 7, 2002. Bowie, Md. A 13-year-old by was shot and critically wounded by the DC-area sniper outside Benjamin Tasker Middle School.
New York, N.Y. Jan. 15, 2002. Two students at Martin Luther King Junior High School in Manhattan were seriously wounded when an 18-year-old opened fire in the school.
Caro, Mich.. Nov. 12, 2001. A 17-year-old student took two hostages and the Caro Learning Center before killing himself.
Ennis, Texas. May 15, 2001. A 16-year-old sophomore upset over his relationship with a girl, took 17 hostages in English class, and shot and killed himself and the girl.
Gary, Ind. March 30, 2001. 17-year-old expelled from Lew Wallace High School kills classmate.
Granite Hills, Calif. March 22, 2001. One teacher and three students wounded by a student at Granite Hills school.
Willamsport, Pa. March 7, 2001. Classmate wounded by a 14-year-old girl, in the cafeteria of Bishop Newuman High School.
Santee, Calif. March 5, 2001. A 15-year-old student killed two fellow students and wounded 13 others, while firing from a bathroom at Santana High School in San Diego County.
Baltimore, Md. Jan. 17, 2001. 17-year-old student shot and killed in front of Lake Clifton-Eastern High School.
New Orleans, La. Sept. 26, 2000. Two students wounded in a gun fight at Woodson Middle School.
Lake Worth, Fla. May 26, 2000. A 13-year-old honor killed his English teacher, Barry Grunow, on the last day of classes after the teacher refused to let him talk to two girls in his classroom.
Mount Morris Township, Mich. Feb. 29, 2000. A 6-year-old boy shot and killed a 6-year-old girl at Buell Elementary School with a .32 caliber handgun.
Fort Gibson, Okla. Dec. 6, 2000. A 13-year-old boy, armed with a handgun, opened fire outside Fort Gibson Middle school, wounding four classmates.
Deming, N.M. Nov. 19, 1999. 12-year-old boy came to school dressed in camouflage and shoots 13-year-old girl with a .22 caliber as students were returning from lunch.
Conyers, Georgia. May 20, 1999. 15-year-old sophomore opens fire with a rifle and a handgun on Heritage High School students arriving for classes, injuring six.
Littleton, Colo. April 20, 1999. Students Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, killed 12 students and a teacher and wounded 23 before killing themselves at Columbine High School.
Springfield, Ore. May 21, 1998. Two teenagers were killed and more than 20 people hurt when a teenage boy opened fire at a high school after killing his parents. Kip Kinkel, 17, was sentenced to nearly 112 years in prison.
Fayetteville, Tenn. May 19, 1998. Three days before his graduation, an honor student opened fire at a high school, killing a classmate who was dating his ex-girlfriend. Jacob Davis, 18, was sentenced to life in prison.
Jonesboro, Ark. March 24, 1998. Two boys, ages 11 and 13, fired on their middle school from nearby woods, killing four girls and a teacher and wounding 10 others. Both boys were later convicted of murder and can be held until age 21.
West Paducah, Ky. Dec. 1, 1997. Three students were killed and five wounded at a high school. Michael Carneal, then 14, later pleaded guilty but mentally ill to murder and is serving life in prison.
Pearl, Miss. Oct. 1, 1997. Sixteen-year-old Luke Woodham of fatally shot two students and wounded seven others after stabbing his mother to death. He was sentenced the following year to three life sentences.
IP: Logged |
The only reason I eat it now is because my parents never let me eat that crap when I was young either. Didn't get my first cavity until I was like 21.
My son is almost 2 years old and he had some mcdonalds for the first time a couple of weeks ago and now he wants it all the time. I say no and he cries and cries and cries...
IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by glassman: 2 9-milli semi-auto's...
i predict we'll find this guy had extensive experience maybe even "pro" training....
Well as it might turn out.... he had thosands of hours in on shooting games....
I know some of the peeps on this board are a little older but if your interested in doing an experiment try this out. 1 get your hands on a video game like say "Vice City" 2 put in like 4 hours on the game(which is really really easy once you get into it) 3 Jump in your car and take a 15 minute ride, Preferably where theyll be some traffic.
Im telling you the end result will be some sort of a slight discombobulation. And you have just become addicted to a video game
P.S. dont knock it till you tryed it
-------------------- "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"
IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: Years ago, in a tavern in west Fort Worth, a drunk got into a fight and was ejected. He tried but couldn't find a gun to retaliate against the guy with whom he was angree. He went across the street and bought a gallon of gasoline and poured most of it in a glass jug, inserted a wad of shirt tail for a wick, lit the thing, and heaved it into the tavern from the front door.
The intended victim was in the restroom at the time and escaped unscratched through a small window into the alley way. Those inside the main tavern that didn't die were horribly disfigured for life.
The moral of this story is to ban glass bottles or any substitute that will shatter on empact. That's the reason all the soft dring and beer companies use plastic bottles or aluminum cans now. So stop riding them for being unconcerned with the environment and your safety.
I went to a Leon Russell concert once, and decided to bring my own "recreational" beverages, instead of paying outrageous amounts for liquor once I was inside the gate. When I reached the front of the line, I noticed bags, jackets and coolers were being searched at the gate for weapons, and in addition, anything in a glass container was being confiscated.
After asking the uniformed guards why drinks were being confiscated, I was told that glass containers could be broken and used as weapons, and therefore were not allowed inside. I was also told my items would be returned to me after the concert was over, so I begrudgingly agreed, and handed over the goods.
Once I was inside, I ended up having to pay 9$ for one 32oz. can of Fosters, the only alcohol available. After holding one in my hand, I realized the story at the gate was either BS or not well thought out.
Long story short, my liquor was never returned to me or anyone else, the guards were mysteriously MIA, probably off enjoying their pillaged goods, but I did enjoy watching a guy who looks like Santa Claus rock out... LOL.
The moral of this story is, anything can be used as a weapon.... A tool is a tool. The problem is the person using the tool and what their intent is, not the tool itself.
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example.
IP: Logged |
posted
rim, i was a beta tester for Need for Speed high stakes online. i spent a good bit of time on it. i got ranked at 80th of over 100,000 peeps... (most of the people ahead of me were employees at EA and cheated LOL)
since i already had a propensity to drive too fast? i won't comment beyond saying that i still never got any speeding tickets after playing..
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
IP: Logged |
posted
Chief Flinchum said the gunmen took his own life. He said at a televised news briefing this evening that the police had a preliminary identification of the suspected gunman but they were not yet ready to release it. He said the gunman was not a student.
According to a federal law enforcement official, the gunman did not have identification and could not be easily identified visually because of the severity of an apparently self-inflicted wound to the head. He said investigators were trying to trace purchase records for two handguns found near the body.
-------------------- Bill Gates, Donald Trump and James Dean, Willie Nelson, John Lennon and Neil McCoy
IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by dinner42: So how do they know he was not a student?
there's a lot of stuff not adding up yet... the guy had agirlfriend break up with him. they aren't sure if she is a victim yet or not.. they thought she was killed in the early morning scene, but then reports come in that he was searching for her at he classrooms and executing people when they told him they didn't know where she was... if he did kill her in the early action? then he had mental breakdown as he went on to the classroom building... (not unlikely i suppose)
one thing i REALLY didn't like hearing was all the questions about why the Universtiy wasn't put on lockdown sooner... these journalists would be the first ones to report that everybody's rights were violated if the University over-reacted to a simple domestic assault/shooting... the early morning attack APPEARED to be a "domestic" dispute gone terribly wrong, not the first stage of a rampage... sometimes i wonder if the journalists have any common sense or even souls for that matter.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
IP: Logged |
posted
and places where they don't have the Constitutional rights we do.
It is a bit easy to blame people that had no reason ever to suspect such an event. I say that as one that was on the South Mall of the University of Texas while Whitman was using us as targets. I knew Whitman and I know a lot of other people that did and never heard any of them so much as suggest they had any inkling that he might someday do what he did.
You cannot design a world about the assumption of the actions of a screwball.
IP: Logged |
posted
You cannot design a world about the assumption of the actions of a screwball.
after 9-11? everybody seems to expect just that...
i have heard halfadozen or more stuffed shirt/talking heads ask why the Universtiy didn't behave as if the world was ending after the first killings in the morning.. i bet the lawyers will be suing over it too... sheesh..
on msnbc right now... the bozo's are asking students if they feel like they got enogh warning that this guy was about to go a shooting spree... leesee waht would the world be like if we go to lockdown a city every time somebody shoots someone? (i live in a city with a smaller population than VaTech)
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
IP: Logged |
posted
By definition, anyone that would commit such an act is a crackpot.
By definition, what a crackpot might do isn't predictable.
That's why he's called a crackpot
Often, it is the crackpot among us that make our lives more enjoyable.
Red Skelton was a crackpot.
So was Ben Franklin. Imagine what you, in that day, might have thought of a damned fool out in the rain flying a kite and telling you he was about to catch lightening?
I can name a lot of others, but those two samples should be enough to illustrate that any notion of trying to predict the activities of a crackpot are futile.
Anyway, who would want to have changed those men?
IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by cactus33: i meant shut down classes, just cancel classes at that point.
only question was WTF? how did this happen.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: well cactus? i'm not sure if you are asking a question or not...
majority of college students (99.99%) are adults over 18 and eligible to serve in the US military...
they aren't children anymore... in other words? you can't detain adult people legally... lockdowns are for prisons and elementary thru high school...
the police had no reason to believe the guy was still around... the usual assumption is thie killer would leave for another state, or even country.. how could they possibly know the guy would go "silent" for two hours and then start it up again?
it doesn't make sense... (and, no,i don't expect it to) we can't just shut down life when soemthing happens... i don't understand how people can expect the police to know this guy was gonna go do something this crazy...
my problem is that journalistas are now second guessing the professionals and doing it rather harshly IMO...
i heard this interview (below) on the air today.. listen to the interviewee... he sounds like most of my neighbors
i lived in the Great Dismal Swamp (eastern VA) for about ten years, and he sounds like a few of my neighbors when i lived there too..
you have to click on the red listen tab just under the word Campus
posted
MSNBC and NBC News Updated: 57 minutes ago BLACKSBURG, Va. - Local, state and federal investigators scoured a university campus in Virginia for clues to what set off the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history after a gunman shot two people to death in a dormitory Monday morning before making his way to a classroom building where, silently and coolly, he killed 30 more people before turning his weapon on himself, authorities said.
At least 15 other people were wounded in the shootings, which took place over 2½ hours at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University. Some of them were injured as they leapt to safety from the windows of their classrooms.
The shootings, which came just four days before the eighth anniversary of the Columbine High School bloodbath, in which two students killed 13 people and themselves near Littleton, Colo., created panic and confusion at the university, which was already on edge after two weeks of bomb threats.
After the scope of the carnage was clear, angry students and employees demanded to know why the first e-mail warning from police and administrators did not go out to them for more than two hours, even though the killer of two people was at large. By then, the gunman had struck a second time.
Nearly 50 victims In all, 33 people died Monday at Virginia Tech, including the gunman. The 15 who were wounded were treated for gunshots or other injuries, authorities said. Their conditions were not reported.
Campus Police Chief Wendell Flinchum would not officially confirm that the two incidents were related, pending the results of the investigation, but he referred to only one gunman and said no other suspect was being sought. Numerous federal and local law enforcement officials told NBC News that the events were the work of a lone gunman.
Federal investigators told NBC News Pete Williams that they believed the man was a Virginia Tech student in his early 20s. Their identification was delayed for several hours, they said, because the mans face was disfigured when he shot himself, he carried no ID and an initial check on his fingerprints came up empty.
The mans two guns, which were bought in Virginia and whose serial numbers had been obliterated, were to be examined at a laboratory of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, Williams reported, citing federal law enforcement officials. That examination was also delayed because authorities had to drive the guns to the lab in the suburbs of Washington after high winds precluded them from using an airplane.
Early reports in the initial confusion said police had a suspect in custody, but Flinchum said later that the person was only being questioned for information because he knew one of the dormitory victims. Officers were interviewing him off-campus when reports of the second round of shooting came in, Flinchum said, and the man was not in custody.
Warnings came too late Charles Steger, the universitys president, and law enforcement authorities gave this account of the days events in public statements and comments to NBC News:
The rampage began about 7:15 a.m. ET at West Ambler Johnston, a coeducational residence hall that houses 895 people. The gunman, armed with a 9-mm pistol and a .22-caliber handgun, killed a man and a woman there.
About 2½ hours later, police responded to a 911 call reporting that shots had been fired at Norris Hall, an engineering classroom building about a half-mile away on the opposite end of the 2,600-acre campus. They discovered that the front doors had been chained from the inside, apparently so victims could not escape and police could not enter.
Officers forced their way in and followed the sound of gunshots to the second floor, where they found the gunman, who had shot himself in the face. As they canvassed the building, they found dozens of gunshot victims. Eventually, they announced that 31, including the gunman, were dead in the classroom building.
Its probably one of the worst things Ive seen in my life, Flinchum said.
Shaken students said they believed many of the victims might have been spared if campus officials had taken more immediate steps to secure the campus after the first shootings at the dormitory.
The first e-mail warning to students and employees did not go out to students, faculty and staff until 9:26 a.m., more than two hours after the shooting at the dormitory, according to the time stamps on copies obtained by NBC News. By then, the classroom shooting was under way. The message warned students to be cautious but did not warn them not to go to class.
I really thought they should have canceled classes sooner, Sam Leake, a junior who lives in West Ambler Johnston, told the campus newspaper, The Collegiate Times. If they had, maybe some of these deaths could have been prevented.
Steger said administrators and police initially believed the first shooting was an isolated incident and did not see a need to close the university. He said they believed the gunman had fled the campus.
We can only make decisions based on the information you had on the time. You dont have hours to reflect on it, he said.
-------------------- Bill Gates, Donald Trump and James Dean, Willie Nelson, John Lennon and Neil McCoy
IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by dinner42: Chief Flinchum said the gunmen took his own life. He said at a televised news briefing this evening that the police had a preliminary identification of the suspected gunman but they were not yet ready to release it. He said the gunman was not a student.
According to a federal law enforcement official, the gunman did not have identification and could not be easily identified visually because of the severity of an apparently self-inflicted wound to the head. He said investigators were trying to trace purchase records for two handguns found near the body.
says here that he was not a student....
-------------------- Bill Gates, Donald Trump and James Dean, Willie Nelson, John Lennon and Neil McCoy
IP: Logged |
posted
Once, at UTA many years ago, I learned second-hand that the campus equivalent of an "all-points bulletin" had been issued...for me!
I had driven in to the campus, nearly late for class, straight from the deer lease. I parked in a hurry, maybe in some faculty spot? don't recall...but when they were going through the truck, they "found" my "hidden" stash of weapons. Admittedly, was a formidable "stash." But hardly hidden, in the espionage sense...back then, was commonplace for pickups to have gun racks mounted inside the rear window of the cab. I always thought that was ignorant, and my seat folded out, so I mounted mine behind the seat. Out of view? sure (duh...thieves!) Hidden? not hardly...had I evil intent, the damage could have been easily thrice-fold any reported to date: *students* were telling me the campus police were looking for me, so I beat feet to the campus newspaper--the easiest place to find me--and worked it out over the phone....
Point being, these concerns are nothing new. I'm sure Charles Whitman has been menioned today... Yet, seems no lessons learned.
If I were on any kind of campus nowadays, I'd *at least* have the security emergency number in my cellphone speed-dial dealie... It's a savage, savage world, virtually unchanged since "days of yore."
-------------------- Nashoba Holba Chepulechi Adventures in microcapitalism...
IP: Logged |
unfortunately? it takes things like this to make people take security seriously...
my child was thinking of becoming an RA at the dorm they live in next year...this may change that attitude...
I hope it doesn't. We should not live in fear. We should go on with life and pursue our dreams and when you're in school you are in a great place. This incident should not detour us from moving forward otherwise we have lost our nation as a free country and the terrorist have won !
Come to my house and try to burn my flag and see what happens.
Best to you GM and your college student...lol just wanted to say that because mine are in elementry school still.. That make you older than me...lol
you're the best sir! lol
-------------------- Bill Gates, Donald Trump and James Dean, Willie Nelson, John Lennon and Neil McCoy
IP: Logged |
posted
You know what scares me the most....there will be a copy cat..
The media will play this over and over for weeks......giving ideas to the unstable and suicidal people.
Someone that is so miserable, depressed, and screwed up drugs, and was already thinking about killing himself....will try to break the record and kill more people, to die with people remembering his name.
IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
