posted
No kittykash, Jesus would do his work quietly. Any attention raised would not be something he would seek after. Andrew posted this thread to cause a comotion. And to engage people who do not follow his religious beliefs. He started a fire and poured petrol on it. These actions are suspect and should be disregarded.
Posts: 348 | From: Amsterdam | Registered: Oct 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: If that's so, why do I have to be "saved" by your "God" or I go to "Hell?"
Doesn't sound like free will to me.
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: Glass...my God gave us something called "free will"....
Ummm...not sure there Gordon....but I believe that they are called "rules"...societies have them, schools have them, even parents have them. What a concept eh?
Let me ask you one thing.. If you are right, (and you very well could be)there is no god, we both live our lives the way we do now (with the exception that I have aknowledged Christ as my savior and have asked to be forgiven for my sins), we both die, we are both buried, eaten by worms...the end! What have I lost? Nothing...our fate is the same...
But...if I am right....what have you got to lose? Oh that's right....only eternal life!
Looks like a no brainer to me...
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It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Interesting point, retiredat49. The problem is, you are presuming that Jesus is the correct target for your worship. For example, how do you know that we won't both end up in eternal damnation because neither of us worshipped Allah?
Also, your argument appears to state that you are only worshipping Jesus for your own personal gain.
Odd.
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: Ummm...not sure there Gordon....but I believe that they are called "rules"...societies have them, schools have them, even parents have them. What a concept eh?
Let me ask you one thing.. If you are right, (and you very well could be)there is no god, we both live our lives the way we do now (with the exception that I have aknowledged Christ as my savior and have asked to be forgiven for my sins), we both die, we are both buried, eaten by worms...the end! What have I lost? Nothing...our fate is the same...
But...if I am right....what have you got to lose? Oh that's right....only eternal life!
Looks like a no brainer to me...
-------------------- "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
- Benjamin Franklin Posts: 3898 | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Yes Glass....it does sound simple...but if you open your heart and mind to God and ask for forgiveness...you will find how truly simple it is. Sure can't hurt to try!
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It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Interesting point, retiredat49. The problem is, you are presuming that Jesus is the correct target for your worship. For example, how do you know that we won't both end up in eternal damnation because neither of us worshipped Allah?
Also, your argument appears to state that you are only worshipping Jesus for your own personal gain.
Odd.
-------------------- "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
- Benjamin Franklin Posts: 3898 | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: Interesting point, retiredat49. The problem is, you are presuming that Jesus is the correct target for your worship. For example, how do you know that we won't both end up in eternal damnation because neither of us worshipped Allah?
No...I was presuming that Jesus was the correct target when I first aknowledged him....now I am sure because of what he revealed to me...
Also, your argument appears to state that you are only worshipping Jesus for your own personal gain.
Odd.
Whose gain should I be worshipping him for? I also pray for friends & family, but that is their personal choice in the end...
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: Ummm...not sure there Gordon....but I believe that they are called "rules"...societies have them, schools have them, even parents have them. What a concept eh?
Let me ask you one thing.. If you are right, (and you very well could be)there is no god, we both live our lives the way we do now (with the exception that I have aknowledged Christ as my savior and have asked to be forgiven for my sins), we both die, we are both buried, eaten by worms...the end! What have I lost? Nothing...our fate is the same...
But...if I am right....what have you got to lose? Oh that's right....only eternal life!
Looks like a no brainer to me...
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It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
Yes Glass....it does sound simple...but if you open your heart and mind, just in general, without any thought of gain or reward and to no one in particular, but to everyone ...you will find how truly simple it is. Sure can't hurt to try!
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: Yes Glass....it does sound simple...but if you open your heart and mind to God and ask for forgiveness...you will find how truly simple it is. Sure can't hurt to try!
that sounds different to me from what you said before...
i BELIEVE i can recognise a person that has done as you say... or something similar...
i know when i see someone who hasn't...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
So retire, you are basically hedging against eternal death by following the religion that offers eternal life. That is how you relay this message is to us. Is your religion mere "immortality insurance"?
Posts: 348 | From: Amsterdam | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Yeah, I hear there is one that throws a bunch of virgins in the deal, if you are into that sort of thing.
Course, I have to wonder, in certain cases, what's in it for the virgins, though.
I mean, it would be one thing if it were me they were to attend, but it might be just you.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
LOL Well there goes the "what have you got to lose" argument. That's bad sophistry anyway.
Believe or else... Hedge your bets and believe... It's all cajoling. That ain't christ.
This is why I don't generally discuss religion over the web.
Nirvana has the right approach on this one. If folks ask...then fine, otherwise lead by example and don't tell people what to do eh?
BF
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
That is why I posted this thread. For Discussion. Otherwise we would not be talking about it. Talking about it is the first step. I am not telling anyone what to do. I am just presenting Christianity. You believe or you dont....I cant make you accept Christ. Its your option, but one thing is for sure when you stand before him you cant say "I did'nt know, no one ever told me".
Posts: 1178 | From: Mobile, AL | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
You all continue to discuss it among yourselves. My work is done here. God Bless you all.
Posts: 1178 | From: Mobile, AL | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
I find it interesting reading the arguments of the non-believers.
It's obvious that some of these posters have not yet had a religous experience yet. Weather it is having an encounter with an Angel, or actually hearing GOD to speak to them. I will pray that GOD reveals himself to everyone in this thread, the way he has to me.
I hope you have an experience similar to Pharisee, Saul Paulos of Tarsus, from the Book of Acts.
He was a Jewish Pharisee that persecuted christians. Saul was given the authority to arrest those followers of Jesus of Nazareth whom he could find living in the city of Damascus. He would arrest and murder followers of Jesus.
while on the road from Jerusalem to Damascus, near Damascus, he was hit by a bolt of light from the sky and dropped to the ground. He heard a voice: "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" "Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked. "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied. "Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do." (9:4b-6NIV) Paul's traveling companions heard the voice also, but did not see anyone and when Paul stood up, he was blind. They led him to Damascus and for three days he was blind and didn't eat or drink. A disciple in Damascus named Ananias also had a vision: "Ananias!" "Yes, Lord," he answered. The Lord told him, "Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight." "Lord," Ananias answered, "I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your saints in Jerusalem. And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name." But the Lord said to Ananias, "Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel. I will show him how much he must suffer for my name." (10:c-16NIV) Ananias performed the deed, Paul's vision was restored, after "something like scales" fell from his eyes, he was baptized, and after eating he regained his strength.
Acts 22:1-22 is a similar story, however this time Paul is recounting the episode in a speech to a "crowd in Jerusalem" in their language, most likely Aramaic (see also Aramaic of Jesus). His companions saw the light but didn't hear the voice. Ananias was said to be a "devout observer of the law and highly respected by all the Jews living there" (12bNIV). He stood over Paul and said: "Brother Saul, receive your sight!" (13bNIV) and Paul's vision was restored. He added: "Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name." (16bNIV) Paul returned to Jerusalem and was praying in Herod's Temple when he "fell into a trance" and "saw the Lord speaking." The voice told him to leave quickly because the people knew he had persecuted the Jewish Christians, including Saint Stephen. The voice also told him: "Go; I will send you far away to the Gentiles." Upon hearing this, the "crowd in Jerusalem" shouted: "Rid the earth of him! He's not fit to live!"
Acts 26:9-24 is again similar, but this time Paul is defending himself in front of the Roman client King Agrippa who is said to be very knowledgable in all things Jewish. The light enveloped the whole party and they all fell to the ground and Paul heard a voice in the Hebrew language, most likely Aramaic: "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads." "Then I asked, "Who are you, Lord?" "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," the Lord replied. "Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen of me and what I will show you. I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me." (14b-18NIV) Paul said he followed the commands of the voice and spread the word, first to Damascus, then to Jerusalem, then to all of Judea and the Gentiles, to "repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." (20cNIV) For this reason he says the "Jews" (more likely the Judeans or the Jewish Christians) tried to kill him. But he told Agrippa that he said nothing beyond what the Prophets and Moses said would happen, "that the Christ would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would proclaim light to his own people and to the Gentiles." (23NIV) At this point Porcius Festus interrupted: "You are out of your mind ... Your great learning is driving you insane." (24NIV)
Posts: 2321 | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
The ability to discriminate between self-generated and external sources of information is considered to be an important metacognitive skill.... ace? i think they have a medication for that...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Highway: Beats a 72 year old virgan too I would think...
A 72 year old virgin. Hmmm, that'd be a tough call. On the one hand she's 72 years old, on the other hand she IS a virgin. Guess it would come down to a coin toss.
Posts: 5729 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Highway: Beats a 72 year old virgan too I would think...
A 72 year old virgin. Hmmm, that'd be a tough call. On the one hand she's 72 years old, on the other hand she IS a virgin. Guess it would come down to a coin toss.
How do you know the 72 year old virgin isn't a HE? Posts: 83 | From: NJ | Registered: Oct 2006
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