THE HOLY BIBLE IS TRUE - PROOF THAT THE HOLY BIBLE COMES FROM SUPERNATURAL ORIGINS
Can we trust the Bible? Is The Holy Bible really the Word of God, as theologians and preachers say? Or is The Bible a compilation of wise, witty and intellectual sayings, recorded by scribes and holy men down through the centuries?
IS THE HOLY BIBLE INFALLIBLE - DOES GOD REALLY EXIST?
Is the Bible inerrant, authoritative and infallible? And what about God; does He really exist? Is God all wise, is God all knowing and is God everywhere present and eternal?
YES - I BELIEVE THE BIBLE IS INFALLIBLE & THE WORD OF GOD AND YES - I BELIEVE GOD DOES EXIST AND I CAN PROVE IT
I believe the answer to both these questions is Yes, and that I can prove it! The Greek philosopher, Plato, said there are three valid sources of knowledge:
1). The five senses - sight, sound, smell, touch and taste. 2). Reason - which sets men apart from the lower animals. 3). Something he called "divine madness" - referring to the spiritual world of supernatural communication.
ONLY TWO SOURCES OF SUPERNATURAL WISDOM EXIST GOD AND SATAN
The Bible is the divine rule book
There are only two sources of supernatural wisdom - God and Satan...Therefore, we need a divinely formulated rule book as a guide or measuring stick. The Bible is that rule book!
Jesus Christ endorsed the Holy Scriptures. He said, "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law until all be fulfilled".
Multitudes are looking for a reliable voice of authority. They know they cannot trust treaties between world leaders, statements by philosophers, scientists and even church leaders.
But the Bible, God's Word, is the only real authority we have. Proven trustworthy throughout the centuries, the Holy Bible sheds light on human nature, world problems and human sufferings. Beyond that, it clearly reveals the way to God!
WHO WROTE THE BIBLE? WHERE DOES THE BIBLE ORIGINATE FROM?
Who wrote the Bible? Where did it originate and why is it so important? Biblical scholar, Dr. Moshe Katz, and computer expert, Dr. Menachen Wiener, of 'The Technion', Israel's Institute of Technology have concluded that God is its author.
The conclusion that God is the author of the Bible was reached by Biblical scholars based on the notion that significant words are concealed in the Hebrew text of the first five books of the Bible, spelled by letter, separated at fixed intervals; a system alluded to in Rabbinical literature used much later.
Dr. Katz said the researchers' evidence contradicts the belief that the Pentateuch is a collection of documents written and edited by different persons at different times.
The patterns of letters repeated throughout all the text dismiss this theory, because the statistical probabilities of the pattern are information appearing at set intervals. By chance, it is extremely low - sometimes one to three million!
Katz pointed to the repetition of the Hebrew word "Torah" (law), which appears in the book of Genesis repeatedly every fifty characters, and the word "Elohim" (God), which appears in the same book, then skipping twenty six letters.
The numbers 50 and 26 have great significance in Jewish tradition. The burial site of Adam and Eve is never mentioned in the text in the Bible, but by the letter skipping method the names, "Adam & Eve" appear in the text where the burial place of Abraham and Sarah, the patriarch's tomb, is described.
OLD TESTAMENT NOT WRITTEN BY HUMAN HAND
Another extraordinary aspect to emerge from the research is the prophetic nature of many words revealed in the text, which gives ammunition to Dr. Katz' conviction that the Old Testament was not written by a human hand.
In the book of Esther which is read during the Jewish holiday of Purim, the story of Haman's treachery and execution was graphically told. Haman's ten sons were hanged and their names are listed in the same book.
After the hangings, Queen Esther was asked by the king what more could be done for her and her people, the Jews. Her reply was that she wanted "Haman's ten sons hanged upon the gallows". This puzzled scholars for centuries, since they had already been hanged.
A major hint explaining this mystery, said Katz, is the appearance of three letters. These three letters are "tas, shin and zayin" in the list of Haman's ten hanged sons (written smaller than the other letters). "TAS, SHIN, ZAYIN" spell out the number in the Jewish calendar for the year 1946 on the Gregorian calendar.
On October 16th, 1946 explained Dr. Katz, ten Nazis were hanged following their conviction and sentencing at the Nuremberg Trials. (Eleven had been convicted but Herman Goering committed suicide, by poisoning an hour before the execution.)
Julius Steicher, one of the ten hanged, seconds before the noose tightened cried out, "Purim Fest, 1946"!
Additionally said Katz, "In 1946 according to the Jewish calendar, October 16th fell exactly on the annual Jewish holiday, "Hoshana Raba", which is considered the last day of judgment in a chain of high holidays, including Hoshana, Raba and Yom Kippur, a period of judgment.
"Such a phenomenon cannot be explained rationally", commented computer expert, Dr. Weiner. "So we need a non-rational! And ours is that the Bible was written by God, through the hands of Moses."
The Bible certainly can be trusted, for it is the living Word of God!
CAN THE BIBLE BE TRUSTED?
Over the centuries, a number of very sincere doubters have set out to prove the Bible to be incorrect.
One of these was Sir William Ramsay, who determined to use historical events - especially the 'Book of Acts' - to disprove the validity of the Sacred Writings! Sir William Ramsay's strategy was to travel to every place and do all the things - recorded by Dr. Luke - which St. Paul and his party experienced.
Using similar modes of transportation and reconstructing the great Apostle's missionary journeys, Sir William Ramsay discovered Luke's accounts so accurate and convincing that he received Jesus Christ as his personal Saviour!
At the conclusion of his study, Sir William Ramsay concluded: "Luke is an historian of the first rank; not merely are his statements of fact trustworthy; he is possessed of the true historical sense, he fixed his mind on the idea and plan that rules in the evolution of history, and proportions the scale of his treatment to the importance of each incident...In short, this author should be placed along with the very greatest of historians".
THE HISTORICAL ACCURACY OF THE BIBLE OVERWHELMED SIR WILLIAM RAMSAY
Another 'notable' to be converted to Christ by the outcome of his own research is mathematician, Dr. Ivan Panin. Immigrating to the USA more than a hundred years ago from his native Russia, the famous atheist was challenged by friends to prove the Bible erroneous, using mathematics.
The results of Dr. Panin's scientific research convinced him that the Bible is indeed a 'mathematical marvel'! He discovered a miraculous numeric pattern and consistency, which ran like a thread throughout the entire Bible - Old and New Testaments! Using the same scientific approach to Greek classics, the Apochrapha and books of literature, Dr. Panin found no such divine design!
Falling upon his face he cried out for mercy and received Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Saviour! And he devoted the rest of his life speaking publicly at universities across the USA, proving that the Bible is inerrant, infallible and divine!
THE BIBLE STILL WORLD'S BEST SELLER BOOK
It is small wonder then that the Holy Bible is still the world's best seller. The American Bible Society reported in 1982, that the Bible had been translated into 1739 languages and dialects which are spoken by 97 per cent of the world's population! What does the Bible say about this?
"Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world." (Ps. 19:2-4)
And what of the noise made by 'Johnny-Come-Lately's' like the humanistic theologians who call themselves 'The Jesus Seminar'?
LIKE THE PROVERBIAL STORY OF THE DOGS WHICH RUN AFTER THE CARAVAN...THE DOGS BARK, BUT THE CARAVAN MOVES ON!
THE BIBLE IS MORE SCIENTIFIC THAN MODERN SCIENCE
Dr. T.A. Pierson says, “There is a danger in pressing the words in the Bible into a positive announcement of scientific fact, so marvelous are some of these correspondences.
But it is certainly a curious fact that Solomon should use language entirely consistent with discoveries as EVAPORATION and STORM CURRENTS (1:6,7).
Some have boldly said that Redfield’s theory of storms is here explicitly stated. Without taking such ground, we ask, who taught Solomon to use terms that readily accommodate facts that the MOVEMENT OF THE WINDS which seem to be so lawless and uncertain, ARE RULED BY LAWS AS POSITIVE AS THOSE WHICH RULE THE GROWTH OF THE PLANT: and that by EVAPORATION, the waters that fall on the earth are continually rising again, so that the sea never overflows!
“Ecclesiastes 12:6 IS A POETIC DESCRIPTION OF DEATH. How the ‘SILVER CORD’ describes the spinal marrow, the ‘GOLDEN BOWL’ the basin which holds the brain, the ‘PITCHER’ the lungs, and the ‘WHEEL’ the heart. Without claiming that Solomon was inspired to foretell the CIRCULATION OF THE BLOOD, 26 centuries before Harvey announced it, is it not remarkable that the language he uses exactly suits the facts - A WHEEL PUMPING UP THROUGH ONE PIPE TO DISCHARGE THROUGH ANOTHER.”
Note: This column was carried by the Edmonton Sun & other magazines about 14 years ago (1986).
Posted by Ace of Spades on :
I think you just opened a BIG can of worms ...But I'm with you on this.
The prophecy of Daniel predicted the rise and fall of every great nation, the time of them, and even the names of them. That's all the proof I need. Posted by jordanreed on :
biggest scam of all time...
Posted by cottonjim on :
Oh crap, I'm crawling under my desk.
Posted by glassman on :
“Ecclesiastes 12:6 IS A POETIC DESCRIPTION OF DEATH. How the ‘SILVER CORD’ describes the spinal marrow, the ‘GOLDEN BOWL’ the basin which holds the brain, the ‘PITCHER’ the lungs, and the ‘WHEEL’ the heart. Without claiming that Solomon was inspired to foretell the CIRCULATION OF THE BLOOD, 26 centuries before Harvey announced it, is it not remarkable that the language he uses exactly suits the facts - A WHEEL PUMPING UP THROUGH ONE PIPE TO DISCHARGE THROUGH ANOTHER.”
LOL... all this demonstrates is that people weren't idiots when the Bible was written...
current western civilisation lays claim to alot of discoveries that just aren't that impressive...
any butcher knew the basic workings of the circulatory system 10,000 years ago...
The prophecy of Daniel predicted the rise and fall of every great nation, the time of them, and even the names of them. That's all the proof I need. ?
rubbish...
Posted by Ace of Spades on :
Rubbish ?.....No, No my friend.
Posted by glassman on :
the United States was not prophesied in the Bible...
Posted by Ace of Spades on :
You never read the prophecy did you...The US wouldn't be in it.
Right now we're in the part of the prophecy where there will never be a single country or empire, that will rule the world, like rome, greece, Babylon, Media persia, ect.
Posted by glassman on :
The prophecy of Daniel predicted the rise and fall of every great nation, the time of them, and even the names of them. That's all the proof I need. ?
those are the words you wrote: it's rubbish...
i have read...
Posted by Ace of Spades on :
There's no way to explain how the prophecy predicted the name of every world power, the time they would rule, and the time they would fall. Years before any of them existed.
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by Ace of Spades: There's no way to explain how the prophecy predicted the name of every world power, the time they would rule, and the time they would fall. Years before any of them existed.
and of course your explanation of how the prophecy works is so complicated that it takes weeks to understand it...
i am somewhat familiar with your claim...
i've also read Nostradamus's supposed prophecies... or should i say i've read a modern interpretaion of them...
more rubbish...
Posted by Ace of Spades on :
No...the prophecy is easy to understand...
Here is a link explaining The prophecy of Daniel, just watch the first video "The Millenial Man" Watch the whole thing...It will blow your mind. I urge everyone to watch that video, "the millenial man"
All Hail Miss Cleo. She might know what she's talking about too. LMAO. Plenty of people calim to know the furure, Nostradumbass was only one of them. The bible is probably the oldest version of, telling the future, that may be out there. All that the bible is, is an interpretation of Jesus, Period, if even. Let us suppose that there was this guy walking around with 12 guys following him ( 1: today that would be considered a gang and the cops would bust everybody, 2: They might have been listening to "The Village People" CD's, in which case they better not pilgramage by a university campus)Apparently in that day and age the life expectancy was pretty short. What are the odds of all of the deciples living long enough to contribute, from begining to end, to the bible? Also, what happened to each of them after the crucifiction? John the baptist sunk into a life af drugs and loose women? Luke became a Jedi? I sure enjoyed "Dogma"
Posted by Ace of Spades on :
Watch the video I posted, CottonJim
Posted by jordanreed on :
watch the game instead and forget this no-win debate...
Posted by cottonjim on :
Which one?
Posted by Ace of Spades on :
"The Millenium Man" in the first link is the one I was talking about...But their all good. This guy is the best there is.
Also "the mystery of Israel" at this link. He just did it, because it is relevant to the situation now.
I will watch it ace. No time tonight, but I will. An open mind is they key to democracy (bdg, you can quote me on that, it's an original)and i love democracy.. or do I love repubracy?? Ah hell, pass me another beer.
Posted by glassman on :
ace. i'm not about crtisizing people's faith...
but?
i have to tell you there is no proof, that's why we call it faith...
i too, have an open mind: for instance?
the first law of thermodynamics states that energy canot be lost or gained...
maybe Jesus was trying to teach us this? maybe life does follow that law as well? but we can't see it?
my point is? you have faith.. that has to be enough.. when you start trying to tell people you have proof? your message gets lost.. or worse? it becomes subject to ridicule.
maybe you can answer me why an omnipotent being would create diseases that kill babies? i can't fathom it...
Posted by Ace of Spades on :
Disease wasn't in GOD's origianl plan, either was death or sin. The Bible answers these questions. This World we live in is not how it was created by GOD.
I said it was all the proof " I " need. You are correct, it is faith. I understand not everyone will believe, and I apprciate you politely disagreeing.
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by Ace of Spades: Disease wasn't in GOD's origianl plan, either was death or sin. The Bible answers these questions. This World we live in is not how it was created by GOD.
I said it was all the proof " I " need. You are correct, it is faith. I understand not everyone will believe, and I apprciate you politely disagreeing.
yah well? i read the Bible and i am not satisfied with the sins of the fathers explanations...
i can accept sin, but not original sin...
my interpetation of original sin is knowledge...
and if knowledge is a gift? then why is it a sin too...
i don't expect you to answer... but i do expect you to question...
Posted by Ramius on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman:
quote:Originally posted by Ace of Spades: Disease wasn't in GOD's origianl plan, either was death or sin. The Bible answers these questions. This World we live in is not how it was created by GOD.
I said it was all the proof " I " need. You are correct, it is faith. I understand not everyone will believe, and I apprciate you politely disagreeing.
yah well? i read the Bible and i am not satisfied with the sins of the fathers explanations...
i can accept sin, but not original sin...
my interpetation of original sin is knowledge...
and if knowledge is a gift? then why is it a sin too...
i don't expect you to answer... but i do expect you to question...
Hey Glass...very interesting point you're making, something I've pondered for years. Most of my own Christian friends aren't deep enough to talk about this stuff with.
The actual "sin" of original sin is disobedience, not knowledge. God commanded them not to eat of the tree, and they did. The interesting part, which you touched on, is the tree that they were commanded not to eat from...the "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil".
There's something to do with knowledge, or awareness, that God commanded them not to eat from that tree. Maybe eating from that tree would reveal something to them that God would not allow. Maybe something about Lucifer and his rise against God, who knows.
It's an interesting topic.
For the record, even as a Christian I'm not convinced that the Garden of Eden is/was a physical place.
Posted by Ace of Spades on :
The Garden of Eden was a physical place. This is a Basic teaching.
Posted by jordanreed on :
quote:Originally posted by Ace of Spades: The Garden of Eden was a physical place. This is a Basic teaching.
its in my backyard... this, is a certainty...anything else?..is hogwash
Posted by glassman on :
There's something to do with knowledge, or awareness, that God commanded them not to eat from that tree. Maybe eating from that tree would reveal something to them that God would not allow. Maybe something about Lucifer and his rise against God, who knows.
my interpretatiton of the "knowledge of good and evil" is that IT is what makes us different from animals...
animals don't seem to "know" in general... many, but not all people do and most don't seem to care...
how does the knowledge of good and evil come to us? thru the teachings of our elders? (i.e. the Bible?) or is it in our hearts?..
living in the garden of eden was idyllic? i doubt it..
it was a struggle for survival... see: a lion pride's social structure... they shred each other at the dinner table...
learning how to develop a healthy, nurturing social order... that is the "knowlege of good and evil" as far as i am concerned..
the Bible accomplishes this, as do the other good religions...
the problems arise when religious teachings become tools of evil... i don't think i need to point them out.. we see plenty of examples..
Ace... why do you insist the Bible is all facts? to be honest i think that shows that you are seeking excuses to "prop" your faith on....
"I will open my mouth in parables, I will utter what has been hidden since the foundation of the world." (Matt. 13:35)
do you also beleive that there was really a fox that took a gingerbread man onto his back to cross a river? there is deep truth in that story... a Fox is a Fox is a Fox... they will always be a Fox because that is what they are...
nobody thinks a gingerbread man got up and ran away.. but everybody knows foxes are sly..
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
I think Christianity is all a bunch of malarkey.
Its purpose is to keep the sheeple in the flock.
The sad thing is, it works!
Posted by retiredat49 on :
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett:
The sad thing is, it works!
Hmmm...I wonder why???
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Because people are scared of the truth, in general.
Posted by retiredat49 on :
Maybe...just maybe...it is the truth eh?
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Not bloody likely. Posted by retiredat49 on :
If it isn't the truth...then what is? (please provide proof)
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Order up the buffalo wings and ice down the Milwaukee’s Best--it’s almost football season! And there’s no better place to play armchair quarterback than in the Golgotha La-Z-Boy.
The plush arm cuffs will crucify you in comfort, and the retractable footrest will support your feet with more ease than a nine-inch nail. I’m not sure if this particular model has a massage feature or built-in remote caddy, though.
I thought the greatest thing to happen to the classic recliner was Todd Oldham’s sassy new La-Z-Boy designs, but alas he has been one-upped by the son of God.
Is that your answer?
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
No one knows what the truth is, (and I can prove it.)
Common sense dictates my belief that vast amounts of the Bible are hogwash, however.
Posted by retiredat49 on :
Or...maybe it's your belief that dictates your common sense...
Posted by Ramius on :
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: No one knows what the truth is, (and I can prove it.)
Common sense dictates my belief that vast amounts of the Bible are hogwash, however.
Common sense also dictates my belief that vast amounts of the bible are absolutely true. Of course, this came only after putting the tenents and principles into practice and seeing the results for myself.
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by Ramius:
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: No one knows what the truth is, (and I can prove it.)
Common sense dictates my belief that vast amounts of the Bible are hogwash, however.
Common sense also dictates my belief that vast amounts of the bible are absolutely true. Of course, this came only after putting the tenents and principles into practice and seeing the results for myself.
of course vast amounts are true... obviously there is also a lot of stuff designed to "convince" and convert new followers too...
the problem with the evangelists of today is that the most visible and outspoken of them are just palying political games and selling real estate in heaven, instead of working on improving society...
Posted by Ramius on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman:
quote:Originally posted by Ramius:
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: No one knows what the truth is, (and I can prove it.)
Common sense dictates my belief that vast amounts of the Bible are hogwash, however.
Common sense also dictates my belief that vast amounts of the bible are absolutely true. Of course, this came only after putting the tenents and principles into practice and seeing the results for myself.
of course vast amounts are true... obviously there is also a lot of stuff designed to "convince" and convert new followers too...
the problem with the evangelists of today is that the most visible and outspoken of them are just palying political games and selling real estate in heaven, instead of working on improving society...
You're exactly right about the evangelists of today. Of course there are plenty of good one's too, but the it seems like the "bad apples" are the one's that everybody remembers, and the one's that are always in the press. Think about it, Jimmy Swaggert and Jim Baker are still used as examples today of what "Christians", or "The Church", is like. They were just two guys.
We don't seem to hear much about the thousands of local and small town Pastors and churches that are truly focused on changing their communities for the better, and doing it, not just talking about it from the pulpit.
Many people think the TV Evangelist represents the Christian pulse in this country...please.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Trent Lott is my ideal Christian.
Posted by bdgee on :
Gordon, how can you choose Trent over Tommy Boy Delay?
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Your right, bdgee! It's hard to pick the best Christofascist, isn't it?
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: Gordon, how can you choose Trent over Tommy Boy Delay?
Posted by glassman on :
quote:You're exactly right about the evangelists of today. Of course there are plenty of good one's too, but the it seems like the "bad apples" are the one's that everybody remembers, and the one's that are always in the press. Think about it, Jimmy Swaggert and Jim Baker are still used as examples today of what "Christians", or "The Church", is like. They were just two guys.
We don't seem to hear much about the thousands of local and small town Pastors and churches that are truly focused on changing their communities for the better, and doing it, not just talking about it from the pulpit.
Many people think the TV Evangelist represents the Christian pulse in this country...please.
that's because most of the very high profile evangelists are using Christianity for the wrong purposes.. and Bush has "ridden" them into office...
IMO? he has done more to damage Christianity than just about anybody since the Spanish Inquisition...
all of the damage is yet to be assessed...
Evangelists beleive they have to go out and convert people... i don't question that some people have the very best of intentions in their hearts when they do this...
i would even argue that the majority of evangelists are good people trying to make a positive difference....
BUT? Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson? they are definitely working a long-term plan that involves taking over the govt... i'm not guessing about that... they are trying to do it... and they have spent a lot of money trying to re-write US history as part of that plan...
they are not simply Evangelists, they are Propagandists...
Posted by bond006 on :
THE USA IS THE SAME AS ANY OTHER NATION IN THE EYE OF GOD
Member Rated: posted 23-10-2006 16:46 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- First of all.
(1) Christ was not an American he was cocerned with the kingdom of god.
If you are a christian and a believer you would have to ask your self why would god be concerned about America over any other country.
(2) Our past is certainly not the path a real Christian would have taken.
The policy of our Government was to make sure slavery stayed as an economic institution and when we needed there land we took it from the native americans even if that method ment genocide. And we used the support of established religion to help justify this.
(3) And if that is not enough the people that stole and abused everything there turn in the barrel came when the railroads expanded, and the new industrialist need there land for natural resourses. If they could not buy it they just killed people and took it. And when they needed people to work they just brought in new slaves Chinese and the Irish. That they worked to death
I could give anybody an in depth study and paper on this but that would not be my reason here. If this sounds Christ like to you you need a check up from the neck up.
Like our loyal presidents followers a few slogans and some jargon are all they use to say I am Christian and I am right. You follow me. I long for the old days ect,ect and ect.
Our Governemnt from the begining has always represented the ruling block of capitol at the time and protected it. If you want to praise people praise all the good people in our past Christian and other that fought to give us rights,like voting womens sufferage,the abolishinist movement and the labor movment that nobody today has the guts to start again and that includes the unions who people gave there lives up so unions could be legal. Look at the milk toasts that run unions today.
Posted by andrew on :
It is really simple. Jesus Christ died for your sins. The bible is the truth. But if we know without a shadow of doubt that men's threats cannot harm us spiritually, we can stand. Our faith strengthens us. His strength becomes our strength. If we know that "For me to live is Christ, and to die is gain" (Philippians 1:21), then we can stand. If we trust Christ's promises, we can stand in the face of anything.
Why bash Christ and the Bible? Just move on.
You have to answer for yourself. I do not judge you, but I pray for you.
Posted by jordanreed on :
dont pray for me...pray for you and yours,leave me out of your superstitions please
thank you
Posted by andrew on :
Why is so appauling to you to have someone pray for you. Look man...I am by no means perfect or anywhere close to it. But, what does it hurt to let people have their say. It is not hurting you. If you dont like TV evangelist...turn the channel. If you dont like hearing about christianity.....go to another thread. I hope you are open minded and dont think everyone who believes in Jesus Christ is shallow and superstitious. And yes whether you like it or not I will pray for you. Just remember YOU have to answer for YOU.
Posted by jordanreed on :
appauling?...what the ell does that mean?..
youre funny...
most people think they have a sense of humor, but they really dont...
pray for the iraqi people...
i will wish(which is nothing more than praying) for you lost and sad souls to come out of the darkness of superstition and into the light of reality...
you should try to open YOUR mind... but i'm afraid it might be too late... it sounds as if you are over the edge...
sometimes i may watch the tv preachers, just for fun. and i may comment, then i will switch stations..
just like here..
you are a form of entertainent. so i will watch and comment and then leave. ok with you?
bye,bye andy
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Jesus Christ! Posted by Ace of Spades on :
Jordanreed,
Comparing wishing, to Praying to our Creator... just isn't right.
Either is calling our Faith in Our Creator...a superstition.
There are many different ways to express differences about sensitive toics, in a much more respectfull, and productive way.
Jordanreed, I didn't expect this level of respect to come from you. I'm a little disappointed.
Posted by bdgee on :
Ace,
Except to you, your faith is a superstition and absolutely nothing else.
Expecting others not treat it as a superstition is a bit arrogant, isn't it, particularly when that is the way you approach any other belief?
There is an enormous amount of arrogance in your demanding anything from others about your religion when you haven't the generosity to even allow any other's existance without insult.
Maybe you should try keeping your religion to yourself and keeping your ideas about other's beliefs unspoken. Certainly , until you can avoid comment about other's beliefs, you shouldn't be expecting others to not comment about yours.
"Practice what you preach" goes two ways.
Posted by jordanreed on :
sorry ace... just expressing some thoughts and opinions..no disrespect intended..
BUT...it is MY belief that faith in a religion is akin to carrying a four-leaf clover or rabbits foot or any of the other things used to "help " someone thru the day... religion assures people that there is more to this life and it gives them hope in a life-after-death scenerio...religion thrives on peoples fears and insecurities...
and i do believe that praying and wishing are synonymous, or nothing more than a "thank you" lord for me scoring that touchdown...
Posted by Upside on :
Speaking of a thank you lord for scoring a touchdown, I tried prayer last night, twice. Laid down some money on the Cowboys -3 and prayed for them to cover, they didn't. BUT, I also took the over at 43 and prayed for a lot of scoring which did happen so god was 50/50 with me last night. Actually, no he/she/it wasn't, on the losing bet I have to pay an extra 10% "grease" so in my case at least, prayer is a losing proposition.
Posted by Ramius on :
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: sorry ace... just expressing some thoughts and opinions..no disrespect intended..
BUT...it is MY belief that faith in a religion is akin to carrying a four-leaf clover or rabbits foot or any of the other things used to "help " someone thru the day... religion assures people that there is more to this life and it gives them hope in a life-after-death scenerio...religion thrives on peoples fears and insecurities...
and i do believe that praying and wishing are synonymous, or nothing more than a "thank you" lord for me scoring that touchdown...
Hey Jordan,
I get what you're saying, and think millions of people feel the same way you do. I have been a Christian my whole life, and have plenty of my own doubts, and find myself wondering some things. There are many topics I won't even discuss with my "Christian" friends because I know we're not on the same wavelength. So many of them follow blindly at what scripture says that they fail to try and understand what it really means.
In order to grasp what Christianity is really about, people have to get past what they think it is, what they've been told it is, and what the media plays it to be. It's not about the afterlife, or blowing up abortion clinics, or paying for prayer. It's about a relationship, and about how that relationship plays out in our daily lives. It's about the fact that there is a living God, and if we so choose we can interact with him("him" for lack of a better term).
People get so hung up on Faith Faith Faith. "It's a superstition, a four leaf clover, just luck, just imagined". It does start with faith, but faith turns quickly to relationship, and then the scales are removed from the eyes, and the world is seen in a completely different light.
Wishing and prayer are synonyms to you because you don't have the relationship, so for you the result is the same whether you wish or pray. When pray, I expect an answer. I'm not picking on you specifically, just referring to the millions of people who feel the same way you do.
Despite the doubts I have about some things, and the things I don't understand, I can't deny the relationship.
Just to preempt a barrage of bashing comments. No, I'm not brainwashed. No, I'm not a sheep. No, I'm not a koolaid drinker. My comments come from real life experience, that anyone else can have if the choose.
Posted by jordanreed on :
good luck with all that
Posted by bdgee on :
"Just to preempt a barrage of bashing comments. No, I'm not brainwashed. No, I'm not a sheep. No, I'm not a koolaid drinker. My comments come from real life experience, that anyone else can have if the choose."
So you say......
It is the sme god that Hitler prayed to and he felt all that too, or had you noticed.
Posted by retiredat49 on :
bdgee...your post makes zero sense...(as usual) Your closed mindedness is just as dangerous as Hitlers was. I'll ask this question once again...If Christianity is NOT the truth...then what is?
Posted by Ramius on :
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: "Just to preempt a barrage of bashing comments. No, I'm not brainwashed. No, I'm not a sheep. No, I'm not a koolaid drinker. My comments come from real life experience, that anyone else can have if the choose."
So you say......
It is the sme god that Hitler prayed to and he felt all that too, or had you noticed.
I don't know who Hitler prayed to, but his actions were contary to Biblical standards, so if he was "hearing" from someone, it wasn't God.
Posted by jordanreed on :
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: bdgee...your post makes zero sense...(as usual) Your closed mindedness is just as dangerous as Hitlers was. I'll ask this question once again...If Christianity is NOT the truth...then what is?
you are the truth, I am the truth ,bdgee,ramius,ace,nirvana,all of us, are the truth...everything you see, hear,and touch. is the truth...everything else is conjecture,superstition,and speculation...you will have to deal with it sooner or later...reality is here and now, thats it, thats all there is, you will die and be dead forever and ever...there is no rapture, no life after death. unless you mean that your body will provide food for other things and you will live on that way.... be good,kind,loving,and dont lie,cheat or steal...and try to be happy...course happiness is just an illusion. there is no hell, no heaven..so you dont have to be scared if you dont believe. it will be ok.. Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Contrary to Biblical standards? LOL!
quote:Originally posted by Ramius: I don't know who Hitler prayed to, but his actions were contary to Biblical standards, so if he was "hearing" from someone, it wasn't God.
Posted by cottonjim on :
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed:
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: bdgee...your post makes zero sense...(as usual) Your closed mindedness is just as dangerous as Hitlers was. I'll ask this question once again...If Christianity is NOT the truth...then what is?
you are the truth, I am the truth ,bdgee,ramius,ace,nirvana,all of us, are the truth...everything you see, hear,and touch. is the truth...everything else is conjecture,superstition,and speculation...you will have to deal with it sooner or later...reality is here and now, thats it, thats all there is, you will die and be dead forever and ever...there is no rapture, no life after death. unless you mean that your body will provide food for other things and you will live on that way.... be good,kind,loving,and dont lie,cheat or steal...and try to be happy...course happiness is just an illusion. there is no hell, no heaven..so you dont have to be scared if you dont believe. it will be ok..
Jordan, are you getting commision on souls or something? LOL. You teling people what is and isn't, is no different than having someone preach at you. People are going to believe what they believ and no amount of hearing otherwise is going to make them change their mind.
Posted by jordanreed on :
he asked a question...i answered what i think is the answer. thats all
Posted by andrew on :
Contrary to what you believe Jordan, Most people do not think like you do. Thank GOD!
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Which GOD is that?
Posted by bdgee on :
Hitler was a christain, according to Hitler and appropriate and credible sources.
He prayed to the same god as you.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Hitler used his "faith" to sway public opinion in his favor exactly the same way Bush does.
"You know, I could run for governor, but I'm basically a media creation. I've never done anything. I've worked for my dad. I worked in the oil business ..." -- G.W. Bush
"God told me to strike at al-Qaida and I struck them, and then He instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me, I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them." -- G.W. Bush
That's why Bush acts with such serenity and ruthlessness. Nothing he does can be challenged on moral grounds, however unethical or evil it might appear, because all of his actions are directed by God. He can twist the truth, oppress the poor, exalt the rich, despoil the Earth, ignore the law -- and murder children -- without the slightest compunction, the briefest moment of doubt or self-reflection, because he believes, he truly believes, that God squats in his brainpan and tells him what to do.
Posted by jordanreed on :
squats...lol
Posted by andrew on :
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: Hitler was a christain, according to Hitler and appropriate and credible sources.
He prayed to the same god as you.
And you see where his screwed up thinking got him.
Posted by andrew on :
Denial,,,,,,denial......denial. Say what you want......Jesus is real and thats the bottom line.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Proof, please?
Posted by andrew on :
The proof is in the Bible. Funny how I chase you from thread to thread. I will not give up on you.... Maybe on this thread, but my prayers are with you.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
The Bible is not proof. Any more than a 'Peanuts' book is proof that Snoopy is a real talking dog.
Pray all you want, it's your time.
Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by andrew:
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: Hitler was a christain, according to Hitler and appropriate and credible sources.
He prayed to the same god as you.
And you see where his screwed up thinking got him.
Yep, I sure do.
And along the way it got him feeling it was ok to kill several million people because they didn't worship the same as he did.
But you go right on telling everyone that praying to that god is good, because you and those that believe in it "feel" it is......like Adolph did.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Yep. Religion is the main cause of war.
Posted by andrew on :
His actions prove he was no christian....He would say anything to justify his actions..Just like the extreme islamic fascist. Their thinking and Hitlers thinking were very similar.
Posted by Ramius on :
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: Hitler was a christain, according to Hitler and appropriate and credible sources.
He prayed to the same god as you.
According to himself and Credible sources...who cares about own opinion his Christianity measured with his own meter. You will know a tree by it's fruit. Did he do anything or live in a way which would suggest he was a follower of Christ?
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
And Christian fascists are ruining this country right now.
That's why Bush acts with such serenity and ruthlessness. Nothing he does can be challenged on moral grounds, however unethical or evil it might appear, because all of his actions are directed by God. He can twist the truth, oppress the poor, exalt the rich, despoil the Earth, ignore the law -- and murder children -- without the slightest compunction, the briefest moment of doubt or self-reflection, because he believes, he truly believes, that God squats in his brainpan and tells him what to do.
Posted by andrew on :
Ramius........Dont give up brother. I have to go for now. I have to go back to work. Talk to you all soon. I dont hate you. Life is so short. Why waste it on so much negative thoughts and damning words.
Posted by Ramius on :
quote:Originally posted by bdgee:
quote:Originally posted by andrew:
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: Hitler was a christain, according to Hitler and appropriate and credible sources.
He prayed to the same god as you.
And you see where his screwed up thinking got him.
Yep, I sure do.
And along the way it got him feeling it was ok to kill several million people because they didn't worship the same as he did.
But you go right on telling everyone that praying to that god is good, because you and those that believe in it "feel" it is......like Adolph did.
LOL, sounds like you're blaming Hitler's twisted view of the world and the horrible things he did on Christianity. Adolf was a sick man. The argument really stops there. He dragged his twisted view of Christianity into his screwed up head.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Why waste it shivering in fear of a fascist "God?"
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Huh! Sounds like our current leader.
quote:Originally posted by Ramius: He dragged his twisted view of Christianity into his screwed up head.
Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by Ramius:
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: Hitler was a christain, according to Hitler and appropriate and credible sources.
He prayed to the same god as you.
According to himself and Credible sources...who cares about own opinion his Christianity measured with his own meter. You will know a tree by it's fruit. Did he do anything or live in a way which would suggest he was a follower of Christ?
And so, following you ideas, I weight your opinion of your religion as you rate hitler's of his.
Good advice, now, having so advised, how about not insisting that on your experience and advise, your god is THE GOD or that there is one?
Posted by Ramius on :
quote:Originally posted by bdgee:
quote:Originally posted by Ramius:
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: Hitler was a christain, according to Hitler and appropriate and credible sources.
He prayed to the same god as you.
According to himself and Credible sources...who cares about own opinion his Christianity measured with his own meter. You will know a tree by it's fruit. Did he do anything or live in a way which would suggest he was a follower of Christ?
And so, following you ideas, I weight your opinion of your religion as you rate hitler's of his.
Good advice, now, having so advised, how about not insisting that on your experience and advise, your god is THE GOD or that there is one?
No you don't...I weight Hitlers view of his religion against the fact that his actions don't align with the guide book. You weight mine against your feeling that there is no guide book.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Do you feel that Bush behaves as a Christian, Ramius? (Who would Jesus torture?)
Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by Ramius:
quote:Originally posted by bdgee:
quote:Originally posted by Ramius:
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: Hitler was a christain, according to Hitler and appropriate and credible sources.
He prayed to the same god as you.
According to himself and Credible sources...who cares about own opinion his Christianity measured with his own meter. You will know a tree by it's fruit. Did he do anything or live in a way which would suggest he was a follower of Christ?
And so, following you ideas, I weight your opinion of your religion as you rate hitler's of his.
Good advice, now, having so advised, how about not insisting that on your experience and advise, your god is THE GOD or that there is one?
No you don't...I weight Hitlers view of his religion against the fact that his actions don't align with the guide book. You weight mine against your feeling that there is no guide book.
Nonsense!
You are making unwarranted assumptions again.
Posted by andrew on :
Bdgee........What is nonsense?
Posted by andrew on :
Anyway.....The purpose I started this thread was to do just this. Discuss Christianity....otherwise we would not be talking about the subject. As long as it is discussed......someone may just be willing to turn their life over to the Lord Jesus Christ. If this thread helps one person, it was worth it.
Posted by Upside on :
Even if it alienates ten or more?
Posted by jordanreed on :
you aint no Griffon...
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by andrew: Anyway.....The purpose I started this thread was to do just this. Discuss Christianity....otherwise we would not be talking about the subject. As long as it is discussed......someone may just be willing to turn their life over to the Lord Jesus Christ. If this thread helps one person, it was worth it.
actually? i think you are more likely to chase people away with this thread...
your claims are preposterous...
J R? it's not nice to speak of the dammed, er i mean banned...
Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by andrew: Bdgee........What is nonsense?
I won't attempt to give a formal derfinition, since a word does not have a definition (or even a meaning), only usages.
However, I can site examples. Read any of the post here claiming the proof of the existance of any religious entity or the truth of any religious belief or writing.
Those things cannot be proved and so any claim that they can or have been is nonsense.
Posted by bdgee on :
Was Griffon banned?
I thought he just finally got so embarrassed of his collection of total and absolute failures he left.
I would have.
Posted by retiredat49 on :
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed:
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: bdgee...your post makes zero sense...(as usual) Your closed mindedness is just as dangerous as Hitlers was. I'll ask this question once again...If Christianity is NOT the truth...then what is?
you are the truth, I am the truth ,bdgee,ramius,ace,nirvana,all of us, are the truth...everything you see, hear,and touch. is the truth...everything else is conjecture,superstition,and speculation...you will have to deal with it sooner or later...reality is here and now, thats it, thats all there is, you will die and be dead forever and ever...there is no rapture, no life after death. unless you mean that your body will provide food for other things and you will live on that way.... be good,kind,loving,and dont lie,cheat or steal...and try to be happy...course happiness is just an illusion. there is no hell, no heaven..so you dont have to be scared if you dont believe. it will be ok..
Proof please....
Posted by retiredat49 on :
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: Why waste it shivering in fear of a fascist "God?"
Now God is a facist...I thought your belief was that he didn't exist?
Posted by Nirvana on :
Andrew why are you trying to convince people there is a God and Jesus? What is your point? There are plenty of verses in the Bible that outright say Jesus is God, but you don't even post those. Nor do you list the non religious and secular historical writings of men like Josephus that document Christ.
Regardless, there is no passage in the scripture that commands you to convert souls through argument and strife.
If these folks do not want to believe such things so be it. And if you chose to believe so be it. You can still peacefully coexist with folks who do not hold to your beliefs. Christ did this every day he walked the earth.
If Christ were walking the earth today do you really suppose he would be on the internet trying to pursuade folks to follow him? I doubt. He would most likely be serving food at a soup kitchen. Or doing relief in the hurricane disasters. Or quietly helping the poor and needy somewhere. Or helping kids who don't have parents. Agreed?
Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49:
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed:
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: bdgee...your post makes zero sense...(as usual) Your closed mindedness is just as dangerous as Hitlers was. I'll ask this question once again...If Christianity is NOT the truth...then what is?
you are the truth, I am the truth ,bdgee,ramius,ace,nirvana,all of us, are the truth...everything you see, hear,and touch. is the truth...everything else is conjecture,superstition,and speculation...you will have to deal with it sooner or later...reality is here and now, thats it, thats all there is, you will die and be dead forever and ever...there is no rapture, no life after death. unless you mean that your body will provide food for other things and you will live on that way.... be good,kind,loving,and dont lie,cheat or steal...and try to be happy...course happiness is just an illusion. there is no hell, no heaven..so you dont have to be scared if you dont believe. it will be ok.. :cool:
Proof please....
Is this some sort of play act or are you really that much of a nimwit?
Posted by retiredat49 on :
quote:Originally posted by bdgee:
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49:
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed:
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: bdgee...your post makes zero sense...(as usual) Your closed mindedness is just as dangerous as Hitlers was. I'll ask this question once again...If Christianity is NOT the truth...then what is?
you are the truth, I am the truth ,bdgee,ramius,ace,nirvana,all of us, are the truth...everything you see, hear,and touch. is the truth...everything else is conjecture,superstition,and speculation...you will have to deal with it sooner or later...reality is here and now, thats it, thats all there is, you will die and be dead forever and ever...there is no rapture, no life after death. unless you mean that your body will provide food for other things and you will live on that way.... be good,kind,loving,and dont lie,cheat or steal...and try to be happy...course happiness is just an illusion. there is no hell, no heaven..so you dont have to be scared if you dont believe. it will be ok..
Proof please....
Is this some sort of play act or are you really that much of a nimwit?
Actually "Little Hitler" the original question was directed towards you...Since you have stated that in fact Christianity is a hoax, I was just asking you oh wise one ...what is the truth? and to provide proof...not that difficult to understand. By the way it's dimwit...not nimwit...
Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49:
quote:Originally posted by bdgee:
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49:
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed:
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: bdgee...your post makes zero sense...(as usual) Your closed mindedness is just as dangerous as Hitlers was. I'll ask this question once again...If Christianity is NOT the truth...then what is?
you are the truth, I am the truth ,bdgee,ramius,ace,nirvana,all of us, are the truth...everything you see, hear,and touch. is the truth...everything else is conjecture,superstition,and speculation...you will have to deal with it sooner or later...reality is here and now, thats it, thats all there is, you will die and be dead forever and ever...there is no rapture, no life after death. unless you mean that your body will provide food for other things and you will live on that way.... be good,kind,loving,and dont lie,cheat or steal...and try to be happy...course happiness is just an illusion. there is no hell, no heaven..so you dont have to be scared if you dont believe. it will be ok.. :cool:
Proof please....
Is this some sort of play act or are you really that much of a nimwit?
Actually "Little Hitler" the original question was directed towards you...Since you have stated that in fact Christianity is a hoax, I was just asking you oh wise one ...what is the truth? and to provide proof...not that difficult to understand. By the way it's dimwit...not nimwit...
Your dictionary is inadequate...
It's a variation of "nitwit":
nit‧wit:
"nɪtˌwɪt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[nit-wit] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun a slow-witted, stupid, or foolish person."
I can't see much to gain by getting into a discussion of the logical constructs of truth and it's various definitions, characterizations, and identifications with someone that thinks truth rest on something printed and popular or endoctrinated by the stringent rote teaching of children.
Have you ever considered that your belief in the bible is little more than a notion of the logical trap of "everyone else believes it so it must be true" falacy?
Of course you haven't, or you wouldn't be so eager to confuse yourself and everyone else you can attack with it.
Now I ask (rhetorically....I neither expect nor intend to pay attention to any response that is a further attempt to insult, which is what you are up to) what if you had been born in and lived only in Iraq or Iran or Egypt, where the bible, as you know it, is hardly available. let alone popular, and the Koran is everywhere? You'd be Islamic, no doubt, as you are a only a follower of the tide.
Bye now....you have fun being a pest and a jerk.
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by Nirvana: Andrew why are you trying to convince people there is a God and Jesus? What is your point? There are plenty of verses in the Bible that outright say Jesus is God, but you don't even post those. Nor do you list the non religious and secular historical writings of men like Josephus that document Christ.
Regardless, there is no passage in the scripture that commands you to convert souls through argument and strife.
If these folks do not want to believe such things so be it. And if you chose to believe so be it. You can still peacefully coexist with folks who do not hold to your beliefs. Christ did this every day he walked the earth.
If Christ were walking the earth today do you really suppose he would be on the internet trying to pursuade folks to follow him? I doubt. He would most likely be serving food at a soup kitchen. Or doing relief in the hurricane disasters. Or quietly helping the poor and needy somewhere. Or helping kids who don't have parents. Agreed?
good post..
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
quote:Originally posted by Nirvana: Andrew why are you trying to convince people there is a God and Jesus? What is your point? There are plenty of verses in the Bible that outright say Jesus is God, but you don't even post those. Nor do you list the non religious and secular historical writings of men like Josephus that document Christ.
Regardless, there is no passage in the scripture that commands you to convert souls through argument and strife.
If these folks do not want to believe such things so be it. And if you chose to believe so be it. You can still peacefully coexist with folks who do not hold to your beliefs. Christ did this every day he walked the earth.
If Christ were walking the earth today do you really suppose he would be on the internet trying to pursuade folks to follow him? I doubt. He would most likely be serving food at a soup kitchen. Or doing relief in the hurricane disasters. Or quietly helping the poor and needy somewhere. Or helping kids who don't have parents. Agreed?
You just impressed me Nirvana. FWIW
BF
Posted by retiredat49 on :
bdgee...you ask...
Have you ever considered that your belief in the bible is little more than a notion of the logical trap of "everyone else believes it so it must be true" falacy?
Of course you haven't, or you wouldn't be so eager to confuse yourself and everyone else you can attack with it.
In fact bdgee...yes I have. I was brought up as a Catholic, and left the church because I felt it was contradictory. I am not, nor will I ever be a "blind follower" of anything or anyone...but, I have lived my life as both a non believer and a believer...have you?
By the way...I only put out insults when I recieve them....(remember calling me a nimwit)
Posted by glassman on :
if my recollection is correct? bdgee has stated in the past that he was raised by church professionals..
Posted by kittykash on :
quote:Originally posted by The Bigfoot:
quote:Originally posted by Nirvana: Andrew why are you trying to convince people there is a God and Jesus? What is your point? There are plenty of verses in the Bible that outright say Jesus is God, but you don't even post those. Nor do you list the non religious and secular historical writings of men like Josephus that document Christ.
Regardless, there is no passage in the scripture that commands you to convert souls through argument and strife.
If these folks do not want to believe such things so be it. And if you chose to believe so be it. You can still peacefully coexist with folks who do not hold to your beliefs. Christ did this every day he walked the earth.
If Christ were walking the earth today do you really suppose he would be on the internet trying to pursuade folks to follow him? I doubt. He would most likely be serving food at a soup kitchen. Or doing relief in the hurricane disasters. Or quietly helping the poor and needy somewhere. Or helping kids who don't have parents. Agreed?
You just impressed me Nirvana. FWIW
BF
I agree, except for one thing, he would not be doing this "quietly" as what he says and does would raise much controversy as it had back then. The greed he would encounter in His Name he would disprute as he did in the jewish temple. Jesus spoke loudly to many.
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
And loudest of all to those who "lorded" in his name to gain position and influence and power.
Posted by retiredat49 on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: if my recollection is correct? bdgee has stated in the past that he was raised by church professionals..
Well that explains a lot...My experience with organized religion wasn't good either, but I didn't let that experience alienate myself from God...I chose to pursue a personal relationship with God, and from that, I became a believer in him...not from the church or it's teachings.
Posted by glassman on :
and does it matter what name you give God in your personal relationship? i think not...
this is one of my major "discomforts" with the Evangels... they clearly state that you must subscribe to a specific name.
Posted by jordanreed on :
i will be playing with the golf gods one last time today...
mid 50s and sunny...thanks sun god...
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Run for your life, Bush!
quote:Originally posted by The Bigfoot: And loudest of all to those who "lorded" in his name to gain position and influence and power.
Posted by Nirvana on :
No kittykash, Jesus would do his work quietly. Any attention raised would not be something he would seek after. Andrew posted this thread to cause a comotion. And to engage people who do not follow his religious beliefs. He started a fire and poured petrol on it. These actions are suspect and should be disregarded.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
And I don't think God has a p e n i s either.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: and does it matter what name you give God in your personal relationship? i think not...
this is one of my major "discomforts" with the Evangels... they clearly state that you must subscribe to a specific name.
Posted by retiredat49 on :
Glass...my God gave us something called "free will"....
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
If that's so, why do I have to be "saved" by your "God" or I go to "Hell?"
Doesn't sound like free will to me.
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: Glass...my God gave us something called "free will"....
Posted by bdgee on :
Gave you "free will"?
With directions to obey or go to Hell?
Doesn't sound so like a gift to me.
Sounds like an order with a threat attached.
That's one way to prevent any hope of free will.
Sorry, but as an argument, it sounds a mite simple minded.
Call it free will and make it taste sweet.
Posted by glassman on :
as far as i'm concerend? God created the dinosaurs too..
and decided they were the "wrong direction" to go in R&D ....
Posted by bdgee on :
Maybe it wasn't the wrong direction, Glass....
Maybe something turned his attention to the mammals and he decided to experimant with them for a while.
Might get bored with us one day too.
Posted by retiredat49 on :
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: If that's so, why do I have to be "saved" by your "God" or I go to "Hell?"
Doesn't sound like free will to me.
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: Glass...my God gave us something called "free will"....
Ummm...not sure there Gordon....but I believe that they are called "rules"...societies have them, schools have them, even parents have them. What a concept eh?
Let me ask you one thing.. If you are right, (and you very well could be)there is no god, we both live our lives the way we do now (with the exception that I have aknowledged Christ as my savior and have asked to be forgiven for my sins), we both die, we are both buried, eaten by worms...the end! What have I lost? Nothing...our fate is the same...
But...if I am right....what have you got to lose? Oh that's right....only eternal life!
Looks like a no brainer to me...
Posted by glassman on :
retired, the problem i have with that is that (to me?) you make it sound as though you're just checking off a box on a form...
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Interesting point, retiredat49. The problem is, you are presuming that Jesus is the correct target for your worship. For example, how do you know that we won't both end up in eternal damnation because neither of us worshipped Allah?
Also, your argument appears to state that you are only worshipping Jesus for your own personal gain.
Odd.
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: Ummm...not sure there Gordon....but I believe that they are called "rules"...societies have them, schools have them, even parents have them. What a concept eh?
Let me ask you one thing.. If you are right, (and you very well could be)there is no god, we both live our lives the way we do now (with the exception that I have aknowledged Christ as my savior and have asked to be forgiven for my sins), we both die, we are both buried, eaten by worms...the end! What have I lost? Nothing...our fate is the same...
But...if I am right....what have you got to lose? Oh that's right....only eternal life!
Looks like a no brainer to me...
Posted by retiredat49 on :
Yes Glass....it does sound simple...but if you open your heart and mind to God and ask for forgiveness...you will find how truly simple it is. Sure can't hurt to try!
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Interesting point, retiredat49. The problem is, you are presuming that Jesus is the correct target for your worship. For example, how do you know that we won't both end up in eternal damnation because neither of us worshipped Allah?
Also, your argument appears to state that you are only worshipping Jesus for your own personal gain.
Odd.
Posted by retiredat49 on :
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: Interesting point, retiredat49. The problem is, you are presuming that Jesus is the correct target for your worship. For example, how do you know that we won't both end up in eternal damnation because neither of us worshipped Allah?
No...I was presuming that Jesus was the correct target when I first aknowledged him....now I am sure because of what he revealed to me...
Also, your argument appears to state that you are only worshipping Jesus for your own personal gain.
Odd.
Whose gain should I be worshipping him for? I also pray for friends & family, but that is their personal choice in the end...
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: Ummm...not sure there Gordon....but I believe that they are called "rules"...societies have them, schools have them, even parents have them. What a concept eh?
Let me ask you one thing.. If you are right, (and you very well could be)there is no god, we both live our lives the way we do now (with the exception that I have aknowledged Christ as my savior and have asked to be forgiven for my sins), we both die, we are both buried, eaten by worms...the end! What have I lost? Nothing...our fate is the same...
But...if I am right....what have you got to lose? Oh that's right....only eternal life!
Looks like a no brainer to me...
Posted by bdgee on :
Yes Glass....it does sound simple...but if you open your heart and mind, just in general, without any thought of gain or reward and to no one in particular, but to everyone ...you will find how truly simple it is. Sure can't hurt to try!
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Yes bdgee....it does sound simple...but if you open your heart and mind...
LOL
Posted by bdgee on :
snicker....
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: Yes Glass....it does sound simple...but if you open your heart and mind to God and ask for forgiveness...you will find how truly simple it is. Sure can't hurt to try!
that sounds different to me from what you said before...
i BELIEVE i can recognise a person that has done as you say... or something similar...
i know when i see someone who hasn't...
Posted by Nirvana on :
So retire, you are basically hedging against eternal death by following the religion that offers eternal life. That is how you relay this message is to us. Is your religion mere "immortality insurance"?
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
There's a lot of religions that claim to offer that insurance. I'd shop around if I were you. You might get a lower rate.
Posted by bdgee on :
Yeah, I hear there is one that throws a bunch of virgins in the deal, if you are into that sort of thing.
Course, I have to wonder, in certain cases, what's in it for the virgins, though.
I mean, it would be one thing if it were me they were to attend, but it might be just you.
Posted by Nirvana on :
Who wants a virgin anyway? I will take an experienced woman any time.
Posted by bdgee on :
Yeah, ya will, huh.
And what if she doesn't want ya to?
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
LOL Well there goes the "what have you got to lose" argument. That's bad sophistry anyway.
Believe or else... Hedge your bets and believe... It's all cajoling. That ain't christ.
This is why I don't generally discuss religion over the web.
Nirvana has the right approach on this one. If folks ask...then fine, otherwise lead by example and don't tell people what to do eh?
BF
Posted by bdgee on :
Good post, Big.....
Posted by andrew on :
That is why I posted this thread. For Discussion. Otherwise we would not be talking about it. Talking about it is the first step. I am not telling anyone what to do. I am just presenting Christianity. You believe or you dont....I cant make you accept Christ. Its your option, but one thing is for sure when you stand before him you cant say "I did'nt know, no one ever told me".
Posted by andrew on :
You all continue to discuss it among yourselves. My work is done here. God Bless you all.
Posted by glassman on :
yaayyy...
Posted by Ace of Spades on :
I find it interesting reading the arguments of the non-believers.
It's obvious that some of these posters have not yet had a religous experience yet. Weather it is having an encounter with an Angel, or actually hearing GOD to speak to them. I will pray that GOD reveals himself to everyone in this thread, the way he has to me.
I hope you have an experience similar to Pharisee, Saul Paulos of Tarsus, from the Book of Acts.
He was a Jewish Pharisee that persecuted christians. Saul was given the authority to arrest those followers of Jesus of Nazareth whom he could find living in the city of Damascus. He would arrest and murder followers of Jesus.
while on the road from Jerusalem to Damascus, near Damascus, he was hit by a bolt of light from the sky and dropped to the ground. He heard a voice: "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?" "Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked. "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied. "Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do." (9:4b-6NIV) Paul's traveling companions heard the voice also, but did not see anyone and when Paul stood up, he was blind. They led him to Damascus and for three days he was blind and didn't eat or drink. A disciple in Damascus named Ananias also had a vision: "Ananias!" "Yes, Lord," he answered. The Lord told him, "Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight." "Lord," Ananias answered, "I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your saints in Jerusalem. And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name." But the Lord said to Ananias, "Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel. I will show him how much he must suffer for my name." (10:c-16NIV) Ananias performed the deed, Paul's vision was restored, after "something like scales" fell from his eyes, he was baptized, and after eating he regained his strength.
Acts 22:1-22 is a similar story, however this time Paul is recounting the episode in a speech to a "crowd in Jerusalem" in their language, most likely Aramaic (see also Aramaic of Jesus). His companions saw the light but didn't hear the voice. Ananias was said to be a "devout observer of the law and highly respected by all the Jews living there" (12bNIV). He stood over Paul and said: "Brother Saul, receive your sight!" (13bNIV) and Paul's vision was restored. He added: "Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name." (16bNIV) Paul returned to Jerusalem and was praying in Herod's Temple when he "fell into a trance" and "saw the Lord speaking." The voice told him to leave quickly because the people knew he had persecuted the Jewish Christians, including Saint Stephen. The voice also told him: "Go; I will send you far away to the Gentiles." Upon hearing this, the "crowd in Jerusalem" shouted: "Rid the earth of him! He's not fit to live!"
Acts 26:9-24 is again similar, but this time Paul is defending himself in front of the Roman client King Agrippa who is said to be very knowledgable in all things Jewish. The light enveloped the whole party and they all fell to the ground and Paul heard a voice in the Hebrew language, most likely Aramaic: "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads." "Then I asked, "Who are you, Lord?" "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," the Lord replied. "Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen of me and what I will show you. I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me." (14b-18NIV) Paul said he followed the commands of the voice and spread the word, first to Damascus, then to Jerusalem, then to all of Judea and the Gentiles, to "repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." (20cNIV) For this reason he says the "Jews" (more likely the Judeans or the Jewish Christians) tried to kill him. But he told Agrippa that he said nothing beyond what the Prophets and Moses said would happen, "that the Christ would suffer and, as the first to rise from the dead, would proclaim light to his own people and to the Gentiles." (23NIV) At this point Porcius Festus interrupted: "You are out of your mind ... Your great learning is driving you insane." (24NIV)
Posted by Highway on :
It beats a "Big Bang"...
Posted by Highway on :
Beats a 72 year old virgan too I would think...
Posted by glassman on :
The ability to discriminate between self-generated and external sources of information is considered to be an important metacognitive skill.... ace? i think they have a medication for that...
Posted by Upside on :
quote:Originally posted by Highway: Beats a 72 year old virgan too I would think...
A 72 year old virgin. Hmmm, that'd be a tough call. On the one hand she's 72 years old, on the other hand she IS a virgin. Guess it would come down to a coin toss.
Posted by Jellz on :
quote:Originally posted by Upside:
quote:Originally posted by Highway: Beats a 72 year old virgan too I would think...
A 72 year old virgin. Hmmm, that'd be a tough call. On the one hand she's 72 years old, on the other hand she IS a virgin. Guess it would come down to a coin toss.
How do you know the 72 year old virgin isn't a HE? Posted by glassman on :
eeyyewww..
Posted by bdgee on :
Damn, I am enlightened!
I thought about a 72 year old virgin, but realizing I neither could imagine one nor had any experience with one to pass along the information, assumed the topic would die out.
You guys are strange....
Posted by Jellz on :
Not as strange as you Bdgee for actually "trying" to imagine one. LOL
Posted by glassman on :
unfortuantely? you guys caught me off guard, i imagined both? and now? i think i need thorazine to destroy my right frontal lobe Posted by Upside on :
Well, the way I see it, I'm 47 so she'd only be 25 years older than me. That'd be like a 22 year old being attracted to me, right? Could happen....if she drank enough.
Posted by Jellz on :
LMFAO! Glass, I've missed you! LOL Thanks for the laugh!
Posted by glassman on :
well? we got off topic here:( is that allowed in off-topics )
this thread is supposed to be about Jesus...
here's my only problem with Jesus...
we know from the paintings in Lascaux that we humans have been pretty much "Modern" as we are now since at least 30,000 years before Jesus came and "picked the lock" on Heavens Gates... why did he wait so long?
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
Fraid I didn't understand that one Glass. You askin why he came when he did?
And for some reason when I picture a 72yr old virgin it make much more sense to my brain that it would be male. But perhaps that is just objectification of my male viewpoint of sex.
Posted by glassman on :
You askin why he came when he did?
yep...
Posted by Jellz on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: You askin why he came when he did?
yep...
Maybe you should pray and ask him yourself. I hear he talks to people....good luck!
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
He certainly talks to Bush. That frightens me. Posted by Jellz on :
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: He certainly talks to Bush. That frightens me.
I think he spoke to Andrea Yates too....
scary, scary....
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Oh my God, that's right!
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
And when you stand before Allah, Andrew, you gonna git a whuppin!
quote:Originally posted by andrew: Its your option, but one thing is for sure when you stand before him you cant say "I did'nt know, no one ever told me".
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
Yeah, but does he play poker?
Would it even be worth getting a pick-up game with him around?
LOL
honestly...I don't know that there is anything specific that says why he came when he did. Maybe something unnoticed happened that cemented the fact that a return to Eden by man was impossible? I really don't know...but I'm not the type to memorize verses so there may be something in there somewhere.
And yeah...that whole "God spoke to me" thing is scary to me too. We have a senator running for congress up here pulling that card and I break out in sweats thinking about her representing my state in either office. Some refer to it in a non-literal sense which I can handle though I find it conceited. Those that actually literally mean it make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. (And you notice that kind of thing on a Bigfoot!)
Posted by glassman on :
a return to Eden by man
yeah yeah...by man? huh? that's old testament stuff
blame everything on the women anyway...it's all their fault...
Posted by Jellz on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: a return to Eden by man
yeah yeah...by man? huh? that's old testament stuff
blame everything on the women anyway...it's all their fault...
Watch it Glass!!!!
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
If I could get away with it I would.
Nah, my wife would make sure it wasn't worth the punishment.
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by Jellz:
quote:Originally posted by glassman: a return to Eden by man
yeah yeah...by man? huh? that's old testament stuff
blame everything on the women anyway...it's all their fault...
Watch it Glass!!!!
i guess i need an emoticon for sarcasm huh? Posted by The Bigfoot on :
Alright, I must be tired to keep on posting on this topic after repeatedly saying I don't do this.
Later guys, BF is gonna get some shuteye and hope that something I own actually moves tomorrow.
Posted by Jellz on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman:
quote:Originally posted by Jellz:
quote:Originally posted by glassman: a return to Eden by man
yeah yeah...by man? huh? that's old testament stuff
blame everything on the women anyway...it's all their fault...
Watch it Glass!!!!
i guess i need an emoticon for sarcasm huh?
Just for all the sensitive women out there, lol. I'm not one of them...well not right now. LOL
Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by Jellz:
quote:Originally posted by glassman: You askin why he came when he did?
yep...
Maybe you should pray and ask him yourself. I hear he talks to people....good luck!
Yeah, maybe.....if you're single minded enough and republican enough.....
He can't talk to anybody else or Pat Robertson and jimmy Swaggart will get him.
Posted by T e x on :
quote:Originally posted by Jellz:
quote:Originally posted by Upside:
quote:Originally posted by Highway: Beats a 72 year old virgan too I would think...
A 72 year old virgin. Hmmm, that'd be a tough call. On the one hand she's 72 years old, on the other hand she IS a virgin. Guess it would come down to a coin toss.
How do you know the 72 year old virgin isn't a HE?
or a tranny, for that matter... Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Perhaps it's actually seven 2-year-old virgins?
This is getting ugly.
Posted by bdgee on :
That's even sicker, Gordon.
But, then, I guess, as long as you are passing them to those guys as chattel, it's all just sick, sicker, and sickest.
Posted by Jellz on :
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: Perhaps it's actually seven 2-year-old virgins?
This is getting ugly.
I gotta be over and out on that one...scary man, scary!
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
Gordo...why'd you even go there ???
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
I went there and then I left. Are you still there?
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...But I'm with you on this.![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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