posted
first off strder? i would very much like to see the data that says the earth has been steadily warming since, well, whenever.... cuz most research i've seen says there have been several cycles of heating and cooling even since 10,000 BC....
believe it or not? what you are calling the end of the ice age isn't....
the Wurm glacial period of the current ice age has had several phases...
many scientists believe we are overdue for ANOTHER glacial period.....
there are even near-earth-orbit-object watchers that are fearful that a periodic comet may in fact influence the weather over a long cycle as well....
i am of the firm belief that we cannot continue to use the excuse of "convenience" and "profit" to ignore what we are doing to the environment simply because sooner or later? the BILL always come due....
the "funny" thing about the total jerks that claim it's going to hurt the economy to go "green"? they are just afraid somebody else will make money off the new technology instead of them.....
sorta like telephone co's being afraid of cable companies....
it amazes me that you think catalytic converters and other things we have done are a "fix"....
mosey on down to the west side of the Cajon Pass and look down into the LA basin someday....
yes it's better than it was in say 1970 when all the trees on the hills there died from the pollution, but? we only put off the inevitable...
i am terribly amused at Bush's oil addiction statement.... i wonder if he's had an intern reading here at allstocks for the last year or so
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
Bush is so smart about the oil industry and is so knowlegable about the industry that he formed, sold stock in, and managed, several oil companies. None ever had a successful well, none ever even drilled a well, dry or not, none ever leased or bought any drilling equipment, none ever dealt in the oil industry at all or has any record of any business dealings, and soon after he sold his holdings in each of the companies, he declared them bankrupt and cancelled all the stock.
Are we sure he is a good person to be advising us on any sort of business, particularly the oil industry?
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According to the scriptures, a truly miserable afterlife awaits the wealthy.
But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation. -- Luke 6:24
Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. -- James 5:1
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. -- Matthew 19:23-24, Mark 10:23-25
quote:Originally posted by The Bigfoot: One thing I have learned fom many boards...don't talk religon over the internet. It just causes frustration.
I'll impart two things though just to confuse things a little more.
Gordan, you seem to enjoy Matthem 19:24
quote:And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
The first thing I would say is that this discussion took place shortly after Jesus his disciples and a crowd who wished to hear Jesus's teachings left the city of Capernaum in Galilee.
It has been told to me (I claim no first hand knowledge) that in Capernaum there was a small gate in the city wall. A suitable exit point for one or two people but by no means a main gateway. It has been told to me that the name of that gate translates into "Needle's eye." If Jesus was speaking of this gate, getting a camel through would have been difficult but not impossible as a literal translation suggests.
Secondly I would like to add the next two verses to give further context.
quote: When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
That will likely be the last time anyone hears specifics about religion from me on this board.
Enjoy,
The Bigfoot
-------------------- "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
You thought what? Everyone should just rush around pointing out your errors all the time?
You seem to enjoy picking out isolated scriptures and making them appear to mean what they don't by isolating them from the context they have as part of the whole. A common error and one easily proven.
Luke 6:24 is a point counterpoint that has nothing to do with material wealth but the wealth of the spirit. Those who do things on their own and do not expect or demand anything for it are the meek. Those that are proud of their accomplishments and EXPECT reward because of it are the rich. You would find this if you simply compared the same sermon with Matthew's version of that sermon. This sermon is "The Beatitudes".
James 5:1 is specifically directed at NON CHRISTIANS who were oppressing the people under their control and taking advantage of them. Not paying their wages and using the money instead to fatten their own wealth.
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Of course, your interpretation of scriptures is, like all interpretations, just a matter of opinion.
No one "knows" who wrote those verses or what the mores and superstitions of their cultural beliefs were, not to mention things like their superstitions and tribal taboos. We have no actual knowledge of them or the way they communicated their literature. About the best we can say for sure of them is that they were primarilly a "tribal" society, much as many of the people of that land are today, with many of the same racial and tribal biases and and simplifications that come to them via inherirted traditions and tribal hatred, which still colors and influences their thinking and their writings today.
Now, try to imagine whatever person that was from back then trying, through the added biases and misunderstandings of half a dozen or more successive translations by persons and groups that have little interest or knowledge of the idioms of our language, what possibly must have been meant by the modern American "scripture", "Gimmy two hotdogs to go and supersize an order of fries with each". I doubt he'd even come close, even if he could imagine a MacDonalds or Wendys or Whataburger. He'd stand about a "snowballs chance in Hell" (remember the notion of hell being hot didn't show up 'til centuries later than he lived) of comming even close to what that request was!
Any interpretation of biblical scriptures....ANY is only guess work and belief. I don't care if it is often called "faith" to appear to make it more valuable than others. It remains only a belief, not a fact and certainly carries no weight beyond that.
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posted
Why do you hate the Bible and anyone who believes the Bible?
Were you religiously abused as a child? That's the only conclusion I can come to.
Even if a person wasn't a Christian, there are so many practical things in the Bible, and practical advice for life issues given, it could be viewed as a decent piece of literature and writing.
I just don't get the disdain and hatred. There's more hatred for the Bible than there is for the Koran. Ever read the Koran? It's so blatantly racist, vile, sexist, hate filled, and violent. Yet nobody dare say a thing against it... why is that?
-------------------- Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring forth -- Proverbs 27:1
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posted
Why are you so restricted of intellect that you declare anyone not believing exactly as you do hates?
There is no disdain and hatred from me.
But look at the vile coming out of you.
Indeed, I have read both books and find them on a par with a great many other books.
There is no reason for you to spew such hatred toward me just because I don't second your endorsement of the bible as an absolute, particularly since I'd bet your knowledge of it is limited to the latest English translations.
I have never and will never interfere with your beliefs, as you are trying to do with mine, even though you have no idea what mine are (hint: I was raised reading the seminary notebooks of three generations of preachers (10) and bishops (3) from my family, so don't be too damned certain you know what you are talking about).
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posted
Release yourself from the victim mentality for a moment, and show me and explain how I've been hateful towards you or have voiced hatred?
Is questioning considered hatred now? I question hypocrisy. Like why is it OK for a crucifix to be displayed in a mason jar of urine or smeared with feces, and it's not OK for there to be a cartoon of Muhammad with a bomb on his turbin?
Why is is not OK for the Koran to be flushed down the toilet, but it's OK for the Bible to be defecated on? Why the hyporcisy in our world?
And I don't care what your beliefs are. If I did, I would ask you what they are, but I haven't thus far and I don't plan on it in the future.
-------------------- Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring forth -- Proverbs 27:1
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quote:Originally posted by Team Sleep: Release yourself from the victim mentality for a moment, and show me and explain how I've been hateful towards you or have voiced hatred?
Is questioning considered hatred now? I question hypocrisy. Like why is it OK for a crucifix to be displayed in a mason jar of urine or smeared with feces, and it's not OK for there to be a cartoon of Muhammad with a bomb on his turbin?
Why is is not OK for the Koran to be flushed down the toilet, but it's OK for the Bible to be defecated on? Why the hyporcisy in our world?
And I don't care what your beliefs are. If I did, I would ask you what they are, but I haven't thus far and I don't plan on it in the future.
"Release yourself from the victim mentality..."
How dare you declare me to be mentally askew? Are you so sure it isn't you that can't see straight because of your restricted point of view? Get off your "hollier than thou" perch and have a clean look at what you are. Just where do you imagine the bible gives you the duty or right to judge others?
"...show me and explain how I've been hateful towards you or have voiced hatred. "
Is crude and presumtive behavior or speach the norm where you come from? I am not obligated to show you anything. Learn to ask politely and if that is rejected, understand you have no right to make demands of others in the first plece! You display hatred merely by assuming you have some assumed right to quesion my beliefs. Then demand responses to insulting questions.
"Why is is not OK for the Koran to be flushed down the toilet, but it's OK for the Bible to be defecated on? Why the hyporcisy in our world? "
Why do you aim this sickness at me? I never said any such thing and seriously resent you posting the assumption that I did and, thereby, the slander that goes with it. That is hateful behavior and you are fostering hatred! Your religious beliefs do not grant you a free pass around respect for and common courtesy toward others (which seems to be a fact of life the bible thumping evangelicals never bothered to learn).
"And I don't care what your beliefs are."
Then why do you make assumptions and claims that you do?
You need to heed your own words and stop insulting others with claims of them being limited to the way you are by your beliefs.
The bible is a book. And your crude accusations are beyond the line. If the bible constitutes something else to you....fine. But have the courtesy to stop declaring what I think or don't....i.e., show some class and manners!
posted
I'm beginning to think this is a joke. You can't be serious, are you? If you are, in your opunion, I'm really going to go out on the deep end here by telling you to get over yourself.
Crude and presumptive behaviour? Is this for real? Aiming sickness, fostering hate?
This exchange and these replies are reminding me of a book I read a long time ago. I can't remember the title, but it was about a man who lived in New Orleans with his mother and they were poor. He was a college professor but ended up working in factory on the wharf. He was a self-proclaimed tortured soul who found problems with everything and everyone and created drama.
The author actually killed himself and his mother got the book published after his death. It's a very famous book, I just can't recall the name.
Anyway, this exchange his reminding me of that book. You are like an alligator. You like to twist people and words around until the person either submits or just dies.
-------------------- Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring forth -- Proverbs 27:1
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posted
It isn't me that is twisting words and misquoting others, it is you, Team Sleep.
I don't remember the name of that book either, but it sounds like you, awarding your own imagery to others thoughts.
Go read some Faulkner. It will teach you a lot more about poor people and about rich people too. On top of that, it will keep your ego busy so you won't be insulting people with your bigotry.
"Is crude and presumtive behavior or speach the norm where you come from? I am not obligated to show you anything. Learn to ask politely and if that is rejected, understand you have no right to make demands of others in the first plece! You display hatred merely by assuming you have some assumed right to quesion my beliefs. Then demand responses to insulting questions."
Actually since you want polite conversation (LOL) you are obligated to show evidence when you accuse people of doing what only you are doing.
Team Sheep,
He is serious, but few take him seriously.
Gordon Bennett,
You weren't speaking to me? I seem to recall that I was the first individual you posed those questions to.
It doesn't take "superior intellect and utter infallibility", all you have to do is pick up the Bible and read it rather than cutting and pasting individual quotes of scriptures you picked up somewhere on the net. The James 5:1 scripture is very clear who it is intended for if you read the entire paragraph, not one line of the paragraph. The Luke 6:24 requires a little more work, you actually have to cross reference with another Gospel but again, it's very clear.
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Ignorance is a condition that cannot be corrected by restricting reading to the bible or the koran. Look what such foolishness and religious perfection does for the moslems. It works the same way with christians.
THIS IS NO JOKE!
You are very rude and insulting. Do you get that way from depending on the bible or is it independently learned? From what source?
Footnote to Gordon Bennett:
No, he doesn't realize any such thing or even your right to address another. He is, after all, all mighty and supreme and right and correctness are defined by his whim.
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posted
I didn't know God posted at Allstocks. I'm truly humbled by His greatness.
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: Footnote to Gordon Bennett:
No, he doesn't realize any such thing or even your right to address another. He is, after all, all mighty and supreme and right and correctness are defined by his whim.
-------------------- "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
posted
The book I was thinking of is The Confederacy of Dunces and the character's name was Ignatius. That's exactly who you remind me of, a real life Ignatius.
If you can get insulted by some idiot like myself on in internet message board, may God help you.
-------------------- Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring forth -- Proverbs 27:1
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quote:Originally posted by Team Sleep: The book I was thinking of is The Confederacy of Dunces and the character's name was Ignatius. That's exactly who you remind me of, a real life Ignatius.
If you can get insulted by some idiot like myself on in internet message board, may God help you.
Yep, that's the name of the book. It's Ignatius (is that the correct spelling?) you sound like and act like, refusing to consider any opinions other than your own and speaking demeaningly of anyone that doesn't adhere to your particulat viewpoint. (Are you a bit pudgy too? Is that the root of this psycholigical need to be rude? Do you have a hotdog cart?)
Like ignatius, you make unwarranted assumptions about others thoughts and views.
For example, why do you assume you have the ability to read minds then conclude the intent of others. Then you stretch that assumption with such statements as "Why do you hate the Bible and anyone who believes the Bible?".
Sould I ask you when you stopped abusing the 10 year old girl that lives down the street? It involves exactly the same stretch and logical fallacy and provided exactly the same sort of implications of wrong doing. It was intended as a smear!
Here is an obvious confession you make: "Were you religiously abused as a child? That's the only conclusion I can come to."
YES! The limit of your ability is to assume some disfunction in anyone not agreeing with you! There is no disfunction with others, Ignatius, it is your skewed viewpoint that causes the problem. Surely you don't believe you are th only one that can be right?
Actually, the problem you have is exemplified in this statement of yours:
"I just don't get the disdain and hatred. There's more hatred for the Bible than there is for the Koran."
Who hates the bible and why are you accosting me with your fears and accusations with this silly notion? Stop accusing me and go deal with your sickness among your own kind.
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It seems I was called out when I was absent. I'm afraid I don't spend time every day looking at the off topic post Gordan so I didn't see your post.
To repond to you...I have already told you I am not interested in debating religion on these boards. Especially with someone who doesn't believe in the source they are using to refute religion. Sorry.
Back to Global Warming for a minute (oh wait...that's what this thread is about isn't it?) Check out this article I found in Minnesota.
Seems the Moose population is having a lot of problems and DNR people are thinking that Global Warming is the biggest factor.
posted
How do you know what I believe? It's interesting how arrogant people can get here...
quote:Originally posted by The Bigfoot: have already told you I am not interested in debating religion on these boards. Especially with someone who doesn't believe in the source they are using to refute religion.
-------------------- "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
posted
So I'm a fat child molestor? Who's making arrogant assumptions now? I just have to ask, but have you ever been diagnosed with Dissociative Identity Disorder? I'm seeing a pattern here...
"(Are you a bit pudgy too? Is that the root of this psycholigical need to be rude? Do you have a hotdog cart?)"
And to make a connection to people being rude because their fat is rather bigoted, don't you think?
Nevermind, this whole conversation is beyond pointless.
-------------------- Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring forth -- Proverbs 27:1
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quote:Originally posted by Team Sleep: So I'm a fat child molestor? Who's making arrogant assumptions now? I just have to ask, but have you ever been diagnosed with Dissociative Identity Disorder? I'm seeing a pattern here...
"(Are you a bit pudgy too? Is that the root of this psycholigical need to be rude? Do you have a hotdog cart?)"
And to make a connection to people being rude because their fat is rather bigoted, don't you think?
Nevermind, this whole conversation is beyond pointless.
Just about anything you say is pointless, since clearly, either you can't or won't bother to correctly read the English language. I did not call you any of those things (or anything else), but pointed out that what you do, routinely, to others is logically and socially equivalent to saying such things.
You are either not a very astute or a very honorable person. If you don't intend the disgusting things you say of people, why do you do it? Must you insult others?
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posted
"Sould I ask you when you stopped abusing the 10 year old girl that lives down the street?"
Those are your words. Are you not trying to imply something with that statement?
This is the last time I'll ask -- show me where I've personally attacked you. Show me how I've insulted others.
I may not be "honorable" according to whatever your definition of honorable is, but I'm honorable enough to ask forgiveness when a person feels they have been truly offended by me.
-------------------- Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring forth -- Proverbs 27:1
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quote:Originally posted by Team Sleep: "Sould I ask you when you stopped abusing the 10 year old girl that lives down the street?"
Those are your words. Are you not trying to imply something with that statement?
This is the last time I'll ask -- show me where I've personally attacked you. Show me how I've insulted others.
I may not be "honorable" according to whatever your definition of honorable is, but I'm honorable enough to ask forgiveness when a person feels they have been truly offended by me.
You've taken that out of context. Was it done intentionally to again misreepresent what I have said? Or are you really that poor at the use of the English language? Put the whole thing there:
"For example, why do you assume you have the ability to read minds then conclude the intent of others. Then you stretch that assumption with such statements as "Why do you hate the Bible and anyone who believes the Bible?".
Sould I ask you when you stopped abusing the 10 year old girl that lives down the street? It involves exactly the same stretch and logical fallacy and provided exactly the same sort of implications of wrong doing. It was intended as a smear!
I presented you with a hypothetical example to illustrate the vileness of your insinuations. Unlike you, I posed it as a question, so as to make it obvious it was only a logical parallel, NOT as a blunt accusation of what you do or how you think, as you do to me!
You really have no respect for truth or any honor, do you?
It's good you aren't going to ask again what insulting and hateful things you have said, because I have provided you with several examples and they all seem to strike beyond your sophistication with the language.
Now you say, "I'm honorable enough to ask forgiveness when a person feels they have been truly offended by me." Strange, instead of appologies or request of forgiveness, as you claim, I find another attempt to attack my character with the claim I haven't explained how you attacked.
How about you just stopping any and all attempts to interpret, quote, or declare, what I have said or what I think. You aren't any good at either and I do take offense at your sick attempts to make out that I amd as crude and simplistic as you.
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posted
You're right. I guess it would best to stop this game of running in circles for pure amusement. That's not a very mature thing to do (and I'm speaking about myself).
-------------------- Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring forth -- Proverbs 27:1
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I went searching for a post that you had made on a different topic list that I had thought a rather straightforward denunciation of christianity.
While searching I saw posts of a contrary nature and when I found the post I had wanted I found I had read it incompletely.
So... you have my apologies.
Regardless I do not wish to cloud this topic with secondary debate on other issues as has happened for the last page. I am sure you can understand that.
So we have seen that in Northern Minnesota Moose are dying because of brain worms and liver flukes(which had not previously been fatal in Moose.) Department of Natural Resources personel are citing weather changes (warmer/ more humid summers, milder winters) as the largest factor for this change.
There are also reports of frog and salamander species along the equator that are vanishing at an astonishing rate because of a skin rash. Odd as it sounds this skin rash is devistating the populations of these amphbians (who breath through their skin and require a controled environment.)
How many other unknown consequences are going to be the result of global warming? Can we really afford not to do everything in our power to equalize the situation? Even if, as Aragorn suggests, we are not the "only" cause?
The Bigfoot
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues.
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Now can you and all the other rabid Christian do gooders get it through you heads that I am NOT going to debate religion here or anywhere else. Just because I abhor illogical arguments does NOT constitute reason for you to declare I am anti-christian or anti anything but lack of rationality and bad reasoning.
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