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thinkmoney: Expresssing emotion is healthy, best anyone can do for themselves. Repressed emotion leads to anger, etc. onto oneself or others.
Art: Your experience only about 1 % of the unconscious emotion-motivation that underleis all feeling experience. Emotion-motivation is constantly active and changing in a stream of tremendous activity.
thinkmoney: Expressing emotion is fine but not all behavior is approppriate. when, i am angry, i say so. I feel angry ..that is expression but to harm another is behavior and not appropriate. But it seems you dont get it so please continue to intrpret your world scientifically and repress your emotion, but i grant you you will not have peace.
Art: I am totally in touch with my depth of emotion because I understand myself completly. This enables me to divorce subjective emotion from objective intellect - something others are not able to do. This is also a source of peace, embracing reality no matter how harsh or punitive it may be.
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thinkmoney: And apparently, you are totally unaware. You know it all and have all the answers. There are 2 schools regarding discipline..one where we think it is punishment and the other we view discipline as guidance.
Art: The second school is distorting reality in trying to be politically correct - guidance to correct undesirable behavior necessarily involvbes some punishment (however subtle and mild)
thinkmoney: When my kid picks her nose, ill say...hey you got gold in there?? please dont because that is not a nice manners. I am providing discipline but you will NEVER see that..
Art:
You are communicating to her that she is doing something wrong which she should not do. You are softening this with a joke to countercondition the sting of your criticism of her behavior (to make this criticism more easily accepted). This discipline of yours will work only if your daughter "gets" the message of criticism of her behavior, and any criticism is punitive (hate motivated), to some degree. You can deny that any criticism is involved, but in doing so you deny reality. Your discipline is based on love, your daughter likely realizes this if you have a good love bond with her, and thus she will easily accept the hate (underneath your loving disciplne) implied by your criticism, as based in moral-hate.
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quote:Originally posted by thinkmoney: a survivor need is not hate.. it is a biologiical need.
hate is a learned response.
[B]Hate or aggression is a motivation expressed primarily in exclusion (rejection), domination and/or destruction. All needs are instinctively based as elaborated by intelect in the process of conditioning. You can not separate instinctive needs from learned needs. Even one cell organisms, without a nervous system or brain, exhibit learning. To seek, control and devour food is a basic survival mechanism that involves a basic hate-aggresion motivation and is found in all living things. Even the Sunflower in turning to the sun to obtain fuel for photosynthesis could be described as aggressively seeking and taking in food at a very basic level. The Sunflower robs photons from the grass with which it competes, while the grass robs moisture from the soil to deny it to the Sunflower - a deadly life or death struggle. Countless life and death struggles are aggresively played out each second - some with more learning than others, all innately based. [B]
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: my wife HATES it when she folds my clothes nice and neatly in my drawer, and i always need the socks on the bottom, so i mess them up
So in getting your socks and messing up the folding you are loving your self (fulfilling your own needs) while hating yur wife (causing her failure in her need fulfillment). Show love for your wife and cut your feet off - problem solved. See how logical thinking, without emotion, solves problems?
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posted
I can see why! Art, you say I don't care about you, because I don't agree with you! Duh? Do you always agree with your wife? Does that cause you to not care for her? As for virgins being in heaven, since you don't believe in it anyway, what good would it do you? The Bible says we won't know each other in that way in heaven. That means no sex! We won't need it anymore! The human mind, can't comprehend that! They would much rather go against God's Word, and commit adultery, for earthly pleasure, meanwhile, causing hurt to their spouse and childen, catching all kinds of diseases, and messing up peoples minds! I'm sorry Art, I will keep praying for you! And, oh yes, I do believe in discipline, because I believe in God's Word, and he says that it is right to discipline our children, so they won't end up in hell! No, that doesn't mean beat them to death, but discipline them. I was disciplined, and it did'nt hurt me! Of course, I know you would disagree! Someday, if all of the people who have claimed to be true Christians, disappear off the face of the earth, in what is called the rapture, I pray that you will remember what I've told you!
-------------------- As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord!
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Kate: Art, you say I don't care about you, because I don't agree with you! Duh? Do you always agree with your wife? Does that cause you to not care for her?
Art: I don't mean "care" for me or "love" me on a continuing basis, but only in the instance of a action. If you criticize me, in that instance you express hate toward me since your criticism hurts me, however slightly. If you are trying to help me by criticizing me, then your hate is motivated by love, and your criticism is an example of moral hate. We are talking only about an instance - you may neither love nor hate me on a continuing basis. I love my wife but she sometimes irks me and in that one instance I might get miffed at her - a mild hatred that I may not even feel or know is there.
Kate: As for virgins being in heaven, since you don't believe in it anyway, what good would it do you?
Art: Doesn't matter if I believe it or not - there is no heaven either way, and there are no virgins for me when I die, except as I create in my imagination as I surf on the cosmic waves in disincarnate form.
Kate: The Bible says we won't know each other in that way in heaven. That means no sex!
Art: What good is heaven without sex? What good is happiness - it won't buy money!
Kate: I'm sorry Art, I will keep praying for you!
Art: Actually I believe in the power of prayer based on empirical evidence. Thoughts can participate in the quantum computation of the future, and have an influence on the material present. I would prefer that you send me money instead of prayers - if you keep praying I might end up a Christian! I outgrew religion when I was 12 - discovered sex - and would hate to have to give up sex for religion.
Kate: I believe in God's Word, and he says that it is right to discipline our children, so they won't end up in hell!
Art: Yes, God is a master at hate and punishment.
Kate: Of course, I know you would disagree!
Art: Discipline is good - valuable in learning. Events (so called acts of God), as well as people, discipline us all the time.
My prayers go out to you - I pray that someday you will see the light of true knowledge and participate fully with all-that-is (God).
Any particle, no matter how small, and thus anything, no matter how large, is at once confined in its small area of space while simultaneously occupying the whole universe. In death we only withdraw from the tiny space we occupied in life while retaining our existence in the whole of the universe, eternally.
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You see, your mind can't comprehend what it would be like, to not even NEED sex, to be joyful and happy! I can't either, but I think I'm a bit closer to understanding it, than you are, and I DO believe there is a heaven, and that hell is in the center of the earth! Why take a chance, that there isn't either one? I'd rather believe the scriptures, and all of the evidence that backs up what is in it, and go from there, not from my emotions, or intellect! It is called being drawn to the Holy Spirit, or God, and having the wisdom to understand what He is trying to say to you, and accepting it! I will keep praying for you! As for criticizing you, I try not to ever do that, but I am human, and I'm sorry if I hit the wrong words sometimes, but I do care about you all, as people, and want the best for you!
-------------------- As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord!
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Kate: You see, your mind can't comprehend what it would be like, to not even NEED sex, to be joyful and happy!
Art: I was joking about sex in heaven - you have to be aware of my weird sense of humor and its interjection in a serious exposition. I actualy do appreciate the finer non-physical pleasures - symphonic music by the Russian masters, top rated movies, etc. In fact I haven't had sex for 15 years - I'm so afraid of getting A.I.D.S. that I'm afraid of sex (even with myself).
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Kate: I DO believe there is a heaven, and that hell is in the center of the earth! Why take a chance, that there isn't either one?
Art: What kind of God sends you to Hell to suffer eternal suffering, because you rejected an idea? Screw that God and his sadistic nature!
Kate: As for criticizing you, I try not to ever do that, but I am human, and I'm sorry if I hit the wrong words sometimes, but I do care about you all, as people, and want the best for you!
Art: Then criticize me if you do care as you say you do. As I said, your criticism of me, as well as mine of you, is moral hate - an attack (very, very mild one) that is hurtful, but motivated by love, and for an eventual good. There is criticism more directed at hurting than helping a person, such as calling a person derogatory names without logical debate. This is not moral hate but is simply hate.
If you say, "You are stupid for thinking that way and here is why....and then give reasons, that is helpfully motivated moral hate based in love. If you say, "You are stupid!", and don't say why, that is hateful criticism, not based in love.
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posted
Yep Glass, that is exactly what I'm talking about! Fire, and brimstone! And Art, God wouldn't send you to hell, for rejecting and idea, but you would go there, because you rejected HIM! It's your choice,it's all up to you where you go! It is called Free will! YOU choose to go to hell, or not to go to hell! Don't put the blame on God because you reject Him!
Down to the pit, Job 33:24 Depth of the earth, Psalm 63:9 Broad road to Hell, Matthew 7:13 Fiery furnace, Matthew 13:37-42 Excluded from God's presence 2 Thessalonians 1:9 Lake of Fire, Revelation 20:7 to 15 Those not in the book of Life Revelation 20:7 to 15 Hell hath enlarged herself, Isiah 5:14 to 15
Luke 16: 19 to 31 Description of hell. (New Testament Glass )
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i have to tell you Kate, i think hell is right here with us all the time... it up to us to decide whether we are going to participate in facilitating it's presence and growth, or work on facilitating heaven instead...
that's what CHOICE really is....
unfortunately, it seems to me that the Creator's intent only seems to be to give us an occasional nudge, or hint at our own capability...
i can't agree with Art's "non-secular humanism?" and i can't agree with you that the Bible is to be taken literally in it's DIRECT context.....
if you give 100 people the Joy Of Cooking, 50 of them will be able to prepare a "good" meal by following the instrctions EXACTLY, 10 of them will make a "good" meal by reading it and making their own little changes
and one or two of them will be able to cook GREAT meals for the rest of their lives simply because they understand the underlying principles outlined in the cook book.......
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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when she folds my clothes nice and neatly in my drawer, and i always need the socks on the bottom, so i mess them up ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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if i don't give her something irrelevant to get mad about once in a while, she'll find something real to get mad about on her own....![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Art, you say I don't care about you, because I don't agree with you! Duh? Do you always agree with your wife? Does that cause you to not care for her? As for virgins being in heaven, since you don't believe in it anyway, what good would it do you? The Bible says we won't know each other in that way in heaven. That means no sex! We won't need it anymore! The human mind, can't comprehend that! They would much rather go against God's Word, and commit adultery, for earthly pleasure, meanwhile, causing hurt to their spouse and childen, catching all kinds of diseases, and messing up peoples minds! I'm sorry Art, I will keep praying for you! And, oh yes, I do believe in discipline, because I believe in God's Word, and he says that it is right to discipline our children, so they won't end up in hell! No, that doesn't mean beat them to death, but discipline them. I was disciplined, and it did'nt hurt me! Of course, I know you would disagree! 
