quote:Originally posted by Kate: What delusion are you guys under? Do you have moles? Warts? All of your hair? too fat? too thin? illness? getting older? Since when are these things, "perfect?" Only God is perfect, and we are NOT God! I'm glad you guys have a lot of fun, with your scientific terms, I personally have other things more important to think about! My son looks at some of what you say, and shakes his head, and he is only 24!
This is the best of all possible worlds, when you understand our existence's purpose and the role we play in the eternal scheme of things.
Your perfect world of no pain, no suffering or illness, and nothing but loving relationships would be a hell, if it could be actualized.
You will never understand what I am talking about.
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I think hell would be, no love at all, no light only darkness, constant agonizing pain, from burning flesh, and being totally alone!
Posts: 622 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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Kate, i don't think you are reading closely enough... Art and i are debating....
i see an elegance to creation that inspires me to be better, but i also acknowledge the cruelty of creation...as you once told me, God commands wars.....why is a tsunami any different from a war?
Art, i haven't had time to read the threads, but i apreciate the link and i will...
quote:Originally posted by Kate: I think hell would be, no love at all, no light only darkness, constant agonizing pain, from burning flesh, and being totally alone!
True. Either pure pleasure or pure pain is hell. Pain is necessary for pleasure, evil for good. The shifts from one end of a dimension to the other, and back, is what makes for development, initiative, interest, complexity, etc. - as we have in this world.
This is the best of all possible worlds - a perfect school of experience for developing souls who didp in and out of incarnate existence to increase their wisdom of causality.
Souls reproduce in spliting off while remaining interconnected (entangled). At a basic level of existence all souls are in unity as One, or God.
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Maybe for THIS body, but not for the next! And I don't know who in their "right" mind, enjoys pain and suffering! It is to help us learn, not as an enjoyment, unless we are like Ted Bundy or someone like him!
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quote:Originally posted by Kate: Maybe for THIS body, but not for the next! And I don't know who in their "right" mind, enjoys pain and suffering! It is to help us learn, not as an enjoyment, unless we are like Ted Bundy or someone like him!
Right! Pain and suffering, as well as pleasure, help us to learn.
We strive to eliminate pain and increase pleasure, in our selves and in those we love, and in doing so we learn - gain wisdom in understanding causal relations. We will never eliminate pain and suffering - it will always exist in parity to pleasure and joy, both showing fluctuation around a mean value.
This is perfection in the material world - a parity of good and evil where both are good in the big picture. Hitler is as necessary to this process as Jesus Christ - both are equal and both are good.
What's the point of this? There is none other than the continual thought (quantum computation) of God to eternally produce ever changing non-material and material manifestations. Each soul, including the soul of the smallest sub-atomic particle, participates in this cosmic unfolding, as a part of God. Human personality is more complex and participates more fully than other things.
As we learn, we participate more intimately with the cosmic flow - become closer to God - and this is our individual purpose.
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maybe before the big bang, all was one and unity was there, then big bang came so god could experience again. We all are here to learn love (god) and when we get there we come back to teach others. We all may have many incarnations before we are in unity with god but jesus was god in one incarnation.
God love is a matter of degree. hopefully humanith can raise its consciousness and be closer to god. I think that ultimately there is no evil , only god. pain and evil are an illusion and only god is real.
when all is god then maybe we will have a big ban again and god experience begins agains rising to higher levels. We all cocreate our reality. Those at higher levels can create cause material manifestations with more actualization.
and of course creation is unending....... we have earht and tons of galaxies that all is linked.
so much to add on, but shared some thoughts.
I agree with art on some levels but disagree that you have to have pain.
Pain is there to help us learn but sufferin is unnecessary.
I know i reached a higher level of consciousness from who i was 10 + years ago and it is amazing at the different awareness i obtained.
I want to become more aware... I am not bothered by as much and realize we all are conditioned. When we become aware, we begin to create our lives and see its manifestation. The closer to god we are the caus effect is more apparent.
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thinkmoney: maybe before the big bang, all was one and unity was there, then big bang came so god could experience again.
Art: The ancient Greeks had opposing camps - one side thought the world was descrete and composed of atoms as separate units of existence. The other side said the universe was one single unified entity and that the universe was therefore continuous.
Zeno noted that if the universe were continuous, then a race runner would never reach the finish line since at any point in the race we could always measure half the distance to the finish (which would extend to infinity) - half of .00000004 of a millimeter, then half of that, then half of that, etc., would go on forever.
The classical world of Newton and Einstein is obviously descrete - things are separate with individual characteristics.
As we get into the quantum realm we see a unity among separate particles that are entangled - with instant communication across vast space, either forward or backward in time - we see a continuous universe that is one unit (God).
thinkmoney: We all are here to learn love (god) and when we get there we come back to teach others.
Art: Morality is based in love, and love is an instinctively based need to promote survival. Love of self promotes individual survival, love of kin promotes offspring survival, and love of neighbor promotes one's in-group survival. We are here to fulfill all needs, not just the need to love. It is just as important for us to kill each other as to care for each other, and we do both in abundance.
thinkmoney: We all may have many incarnations before we are in unity with god but jesus was god in one incarnation.
Art: Jesus was a man with a terribly flawed moral philosophy. His followers promoted him in order to gain power in an expanding religious movement. His virgin birth and reports of his miracles were popular ideas that people believed of many others - a way to give Jesus prestige and sell his religion, again to gain power on the part of his adherents - there is money and prestige in religion leadership positions, if the religion is popular. Other admired people of the BC and early AD era were said to be from a virgin birth, such as Alexander the great. There were other messiahs at the time - Pointus Pilate killed one after he killed Jesus, along with thousands of his followers, and Rome finally got fed up with his cruel tendency to crucify and kill Jews and Summarians (and others) and stripped him of power (he then committed suicide). The bible falsely paints a sympathetic picture of Pilate, to blame Jesus' death on the Jews. Pilate was in fact a cuel leader with a compulsion to kill. He wanted to kill Jesus, and would have killed all Christians if he was not bothered about the poilitical fallout from this.
thinkmoney: God love is a matter of degree. hopefully humanity can raise its consciousness and be closer to god.
Art: God has nothing to do with love or morality - such ideas are delusional projections based in our dependency need for a parent to guide and care for us, to love us, and even punish us when we go against their wishes. As adults we long for the childhood where we had a God (in the form of our parents), and reinstate that in religious beliefs.
thinkmoney:... but I disagree that you have to have pain. Pain is there to help us learn but suffering is unnecessary.
Art: You can't eliminate suffering unless you eliminate pain. A world without pain and its state of suffering would be hell for any intelligent life in it. You would be in unchanging euphoria, and would satiate and live in a boredom of no change. All intelligent life would cease to exist - in fact it would never had evolved beyond a plant stage.
Your perfect world is no world at all - void of any intelligent life - containing only plants and some microbes.
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well...art..i disagree with your contentions.
suffering can be eliminated but pain i think is here for us to learn to grow until we reach a god consciousness and for me that is love. Yes, In my heart i know we are here to learn love or whatever you call positive energy. We choose whether we are negative or positive and that is the energy we enamate. But, so many give off negative energy without awareness ...due to conditioned evolution. sufferin is uneccessary...Example...a child thatis abuse..give alot of negative energy..told child is ugly, stupid ,and etc...no good... this child who grows up suffers due to a conditioned image of oneself..I talked to many abused children..the pain is real and so is the suffering. However, if the child can grown and learn that the abus it was given is not because the child is no good, etc.. but because of the emotional anguish of the perpetrator, then the child can learn and be conditioned that it is a child of god. Summed up child learns love and is aware why abused. Learns to forgive because the abuser was not aware and mentally sick. This child can eliminate suffering and use pain as a gauge to cocreate the word. Pain tell s us we are away from positive energy..god..love..hatever we call it...when we move closer to god we can avoid pain.
Now, I realize that your mentality does not have this perception but I dont share yours and I see cocreation in my life and know of first hand experiences how changing our thoughts can change our experiences...
Apparently, there are different views and truth is in the heart. If we seek truth, i feel we will find it.
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thinkmoney: suffering can be eliminated but pain i think is here for us to learn to grow until we reach a god consciousness and for me that is love.
Art: How do you distinguish pain and suffering?
thinkmoney: In my heart i know we are here to learn love or whatever you call positive energy.
Art: You are thinking with emotion - delusional productions. Positive energy is that accompanying pleasure, and pleasure comes from need fulfillment, whether loving or killing or what ever. You just want to get off - we all do. Call it love or hate or whatever - it reduces to need fulfillment either of our selves or of those we care for (kin, neighbors, nation or world). Those who love unconditionally are fools - a wise love is based on reciprocation. We should help those in our nation only when this enbles them to contribute to the nation in the future - otherwise ignore or kill them when they are parasites who take from others without returning (criminals, incompetents, etc.).
thinkmoney: We choose whether we are negative or positive and that is the energy we enamate.
Art: Nothing occurs in the physical universe without some prior causal communication - nothing can emerge from nothing - everything is determined and free will is an illusion.
thinkmoney: But, so many give off negative energy without awareness ...due to conditioned evolution. sufferin is uneccessary...Example...a child that is abused..gives off alot of negative energy..told child is ugly, stupid ,and etc...no good...this child who grows up suffers due to a conditioned image of oneself..I talked to many abused children..the pain is real and so is the suffering. However, if the child can grown and learn that the abus it was given is not because the child is no good, etc.. but because of the emotional anguish of the perpetrator, then the child can learn and be conditioned that it is a child of god. Summed up child learns love and is aware why abused. Learns to forgive because the abuser was not aware and mentally sick. This child can eliminate suffering and use pain as a gauge to cocreate the word. Pain tell s us we are away from positive energy..god..love..hatever we call it...when we move closer to god we can avoid pain.
Art: Good point. What you describe is the power of cognitive change to realign deep emotion/motivation to achieve a more positive structuring of emotional/motivational processes. If we were truly wise, we would understand all, and would accept the pain we experienced as a necessary and ultimately good part of the cosmic flow (God). We would stil experience the pain, and try to eliminate it, but we would not wallow in self pity and would understand and accept it. If we are injured by an earthquake, we would adapt and move on and not dwell on the injustice.
thinkmoney: Apparently, there are different views and truth is in the heart. If we seek truth, i feel we will find it.
Art: Truth is in existence and approached through inferential and inductive understanding causal relations. It is a matter of computation and not feeling.
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I definitely am in a different realm. I tried to distinguish pain and suffering by the child example. And, later you also tied to my explanation. Pain tells us something is wrong and needs fixing. Physical pain tells us something needs to be addressed physical and emotional pain tells us our thinking is screwed or away from god. And, the emotional pain ends up being physical if not addressed.
I look at the world as a collective creation..god..and on this plane earth. what we see is what we perceive and our illusion and creation...sometimes hard to seperate. All is created out of nothing.. In stillneess is ONE where we all can reach god and create. It is in nothing that all is created and manifested into our various realities that in the end maybe illusional.
Computations, science, thinking all serve to explain parts of reality but life is not scientific. It is created, an art....we can try to explain by reason, science and that serves some benefit but ultimately an infinite posssibilities cannot be computed. It is in the heart because that is where all creation stems.
By knowing something true in our heart can we create. Thinking is illusional but the heart is where we find truth.
A good example...if someone I love is in immediate danger, i will not compute. i will know instantly what to do. But maybe you will compute and reason.
Best way I explain is that the reason aspect serves its purpose but life is a mystery and can not be explained..
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Also, i know there are angels but angels cant be explained scientifucally. angels or some good force. Literallly speaking, I witness my once then 2 yr step rollin on the steps at the 2 step. I think an angel stopped her. That my contribution for the day or whatever.
Have a great day all.. time for me to go home soon.......
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thinkmoney:...I tried to distinguish pain and suffering by the child example. And, later you also tied to my explanation.
Art: Yes, I saw your ecxample and then understood your distinction between pain and suffering. You seem to think pain is a physically (sensory) based feeling, while suffering is the result of perception (interpretation of stimuli and personality products, where this interpretation is greatly influenced by cognition).
thinkmoney: I look at the world as a collective creation..god..and on this plane earth. what we see is what we perceive and our illusion and creation...sometimes hard to seperate. All is created out of nothing..
Art: Something from nothing? Impossible fantasy.
Something material from something non-material? Absolutely true.
What is this something non-material?
It has two components - a non-material energy, perhaps from vibrating strings, and thought or intelligence from computation at a quantum level of entanglement (timeless, spaceless, everything is continuous in a unity). This quantum computation is God, and it regulates non-material energy to manifest as physical particles and physical energy.
thinkmoney: In stillneess is ONE where we all can reach god and create. It is in nothing that all is created and manifested into our various realities that in the end maybe illusional.
Art: True, if interpreted in my terms of quantum computation, in which we can particiapte in our individual thought.
thinkmoney: Computations, science, thinking all serve to explain parts of reality but life is not scientific.
Art: Yes, science and math (and logical deductive thought) can deal with the material, and only induce aspects of the non-material. The non-material is the true reality while the material is an illusionary facade.
thinkmoney:...we can try to explain by reason, science and that serves some benefit but ultimately an infinite posssibilities cannot be computed. It is in the heart because that is where all creation stems.
Art: Emotional/motivational impulses in the unconscious are the source of creative thinking, but this is psychotic production unless molded properly by non-verbal (perceptual) and verbal (conceptual). The analogue in the universe is non-material energy that must be molded by quantum computation that conforms to laws of causality to manifest matter.
thinkmoney: By knowing something true in our heart can we create. Thinking is illusional but the heart is where we find truth.
Art: But psychotic (delusional) truth.
thinkmoney: A good example...if someone I love is in immediate danger, i will not compute. i will know instantly what to do. But maybe you will compute and reason.
Art: No, you are computing, but unconsciously. We are only conscious of the outputs of unconscious computation - the major thought processes are outside of awareness. Sometimes a solution comes into our awareness as if from nowhere, even though we may have been unconsciously thinking on it for long periods. It seems to us that we thought of it instantly though. Sometimes we become aware of the steps to a solution in a step-by-step manner, while remaining unaware of the unconscious processes involved in producing each step toward a solution. This procesing in unawareness can be in terms of microseconds - we only become aware of the fruits of it and not the process in its entireity.
quote:Originally posted by thinkmoney: Also, i know there are angels but angels cant be explained scientifucally. angels or some good force........
Art: Yes, apparations do exist and can influence matter via quantum computation (thought). This sometimes can be good influences (angels) as well as bad (demons). Apparitions have been observed to assist people as well as attack people, physically, but normally just appear without acknowledging living people at all. This can be demonstrated in the lab by a phenomena called a quantum mirage, as well as by demonstrations of psychokinesis (mind over matter).
quote:Originally posted by Kate: I'm sorry, but I don't believe in reincarnation! If it were true, we would be perfect by now, and have no problems, instead of everything continuing to get worse! We have only one life to live, according to God's Word!
Ian Stevenson, a psychiatrist who does research at the Univ. of Virginia, has written several books about his research into reincarnation.
For instance, the case of Shanti Devi was investigated many years ago. Shanti Devi was born in Delhi in 1926. When she was four years old she made a startling declaration to her family: "This is not my real home! I have a husband and a son in Mathura! I must return to them!"
The young girl was able to provide many details of her past life, including descriptions of her previous home and family in Mathura.
At the prompting of Mahatma Gandhi, a team of researchers was put together to examine her claims. According to reincarnation expert Dr. Ian Stevenson, Shanti Devi's past life memories matched the facts uncovered by the panel's investigation.
Swedish journalist, Sture Lonnerstrand, also looked into the case of Shanti Devi. After an extensive investigation he concluded, "This is the only fully explained and proven case of reincarnation there has been."
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I think pain is both, physical or emotional. suffering is holding on..living in past... In nothing all is created...non-material is included in my nothing but expanded. When you break down physicl material., most is empty space... anyways, think as you want. As a man thinketh , he is...
Thought is energy and creates. Your thoughts are your reality and possibly delusional. I say that because you come from a position of rigidity and I no longer care to continue your delusion. I quest for knowledge and after being exposed your thoughts, dispose of them and only retain those that are true for me........... You must be a man, where all has to be computed...
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thinkmoney: I think pain is both, physical or emotional. suffering is holding on..living in past...In nothing all is created...non-material is included in my nothing but expanded. When you break down physicl material., most is empty space... anyways, think as you want. As a man thinketh , he is...
Art: Only 4 percent of the universe is matter. Most is empty and non-physical: dark matter and dark renergy.
The term empty only aplies to matter - the non-material is infinite, without space or time, and simultaneously empty and full, no where and every where.
thinkmoney: Thought is energy and creates.
Art: Thought regulates energy but not by energy emanations. Poltergist activity is an example. The brain could move mountains but not be generating the energy to do so. It would all be done by generating thought that could play a sufficient influence in universal quantum computation.
thinkmoney: Your thoughts are your reality and possibly delusional.
Art: Your thoughts create your experience, but this may be real or not. The psychotic's experince is not mine, and yours is not mine - which is why we disagree.
posted
You just previously stated, that demons exist! They have always existed! Demons also want us to believe things that aren't true! The people who believe they have been reincarnated, are being oppressed or possessed by demons, or angels of light, which come from satan, and THEY are the ones giving them the thoughts of past lives! satan will do anything, to make people think that they don't need God! That includes impersonating someone that we loved, and has died! They can't read our thoughts, but they can implant them! Oh yes, I believe in ghosts, but I don't believe they are who they seem! They are another of satans tools, to keep souls from knowing Jesus, and going to heaven someday!
Also, since I've seen physical miracles, like people being healed, etc, with my own eyes, 'no scientific explanation needed or possible' and have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, I will keep praying for you!
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Where do you get your information? Or how did you acquire your knowledge? I find some fascinating but some too computational oriented.
I dont think anyone has the answers but thought moves energy and ideas you expressed are in the collective psyche.
what works for me is when I see creation in progress. When I feel closer to god the more apparent is creation. For example, I know my hair will turn blonde, if I know it, i feel it will regardless of any logical explanations. This example is outlandish but used for illustration.
I also use my awareness to create but let go because the universe will do better than me and I often am astonished how this works.
At one point, being fixed gave frustration but having intent and letting go is astonishing when you see the results.
anyways, your input is appreciated because some ideas i share but I interpret differently.
posted
Interesting thread here. In my younger days I used to have thoughts like these too.... but then I quit taking windowpane.
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thinkmoney: Where do you get your information? Or how did you acquire your knowledge? I find some fascinating but some too computational oriented.
Art: The material world is descrete and thus can be described mathematically or conceptually (math is based in logic).
Any ontological discussion of the material world has to be computational (logical and empirical). Any theory of the non-material (dark matter and energy) ontological basis of the material, has to be in logical terms, but based on inference and induction from observations and knoweledge of the material. This enables us to think and communicate logically about a non-material existence that is not logical. We can thus talk of a timeless and spaceless dimension, where an event is simultaneously no where and everywhere, but we use logical terms like 'time' and 'space' and 'where' event in a way that is illogical. We never abandon conmputational thought even when talking about things not subject to computation.
My language is logical, though based on speculative inferences and inductions from a knowledge of quantum and psychic/paranormal events.
Your language is poetic, and poetry is logic adulterated by distorted (delusional bordering) thought. Kate's religious thinking is more overtly delusional. Both yours and Kate's ideas have some partial validity, and more importantly, have heuristic value - they provide you with meaning in trying to understand life and are therefore useful.
thinkmoney...I dont think anyone has the answers but thought moves energy and ideas you expressed are in the collective psyche.
Art: Again, if thought gave off energy to make things happen, we could measure it in some way. Thought can sometimes regulate non-material (dark) energy that can be communicated in the material, but thought does not send out energy to objects to move them - it can sometime move them via information communications at the basis of matter. The basis of existence is information (data), generated in universal quantum communication, that underlies material events.
thinkmoney: what works for me is when I see creation in progress. When I feel closer to god the more apparent is creation. For example, I know my hair will turn blonde, if I know it, i feel it will regardless of any logical explanations. This example is outlandish but used for illustration.
Art: No matter how much you know or feel your hair will turn blonde it will only do so if your thought can influence the universal quantum computation sufficiently to cause it to do so. Some (rare) people can move objects at times. One case (John Becker) had it rain on him and his immediate are at times - indoors. Real water fell and no one knew where it came from. Plotergeist activity of object moving is well recorded. Mind ove matter is possible, but extremely rare. Control of behavior, attitudes and feelings, by the way you think, is available to anyone (though some understanding of how to do it is needed), and as you have stated, can alleviate suffering. There is no denying the power of positive thinking.
quote:Originally posted by Kate: Doesn't Art, sound just like Spock? Totally logical, without human emotions!
Kate, in Art's defense? (not that he can't defend himself) my deduction is that Art is actually so in tune with "reality" that he is forced to "defend" himself by being this way... remember he stated that everything is connected? that is correct...everything is connected, and if one does not set up filters, one becomes "paralysed" by the amount of data one receives. as far as re-incarnation? it is optional.....a kind God would allow for this
quote:Originally posted by glassman: so Kate as you were re-reading, did you detect my sarcasm?
Art, back to the pulses? if the universe is binary and it is destroyed and re-created over and over where is the data stored?
The present is the atomically constituted hologram that represents the interference precipitate of the past and future. The past is stored, and the multiverse future is generated as wave encoded in the basic vibrations of existence, perhaps as strings. These vibrations serve as data points in quantum computation, where simultaneous processing occurs. Past vibrations, of all past material universes, merge with vibrations computed as future possibilites, to produce a material present in a pulse on.
Not only the past, but the future, can be brought into a present, on a limited encapsulated basis, to produce excursions into the past or from the future. See Jenny Randles book, Time Storms.
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so the quantum wave never FULLY collapses? if so i misunderstood.
my interpretation is that we are just unable to perceive the tensor(vector squared)..... we are only able to verify/perceive vectors... that is what i meant by never being "off"...so the hologram is never really pulsing, it is we who are pulsing......
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited January 05, 2005).]
quote:Originally posted by Kate: Doesn't Art, sound just like Spock? Totally logical, without human emotions!
My depth of emotion likely surpasses that of anyone on this forum. I write beautiful love poems, and yes, I donate to the Salvation Army sending money by mail to them on aregular basis.
However, I don't let need or emotion intrude into my ideas of reality, such as what exists and how it is processed. My emotion is expressed creatively, not in my scientific ideas.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: so the quantum wave never FULLY collapses? if so i misunderstood.
my interpretation is that we are just unable to perceive the tensor(vector squared)..... we are only able to verify/perceive vectors... that is what i meant by never being "off"...so the hologram is never really pulsing, it is we who are pulsing......
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited January 05, 2005).]
Collapase of the wave function represents the actualization of one among possible collapses. The possibilities are subatomic state possibities where the collpase is the state actualized. The possibilities, in uncollapsed superposition, are the future - the multiverse. The collpase is the material present of one possibility that is actualized in the wave function collapse. The past is all wave function collapses, all actualized states, that have ever occurred as material presents.
Vibrations, or waves, carry data. Phase of a wave is a function of frequency and amplitiude which carry data. The brain perceives sound or visual waves in a holographic domain, while the eye or ear transform this data like a lens focuses on film, in sensation. This data is then transformed back in phase encoded data, and memory stored. The data is retrieved and transformed from holographic memory stored form, to focused form, in memory reconstruction. See Karl Pribrum. The point is that waves or vibrations carry data, and the interference of this precipitated data is the result of a data computational process.
The pulse on is hologramic interference which precipitates the material present. Between such pulses is the pulse off in which nothing material exists, and the new future is merging with the past to produce a new present. The quantum leap is the jump from one pulse on to another pulse on - the electron does not move continuously from one orbit to another, it dissappears from one orbit and simultaneously reappears in another orbit - teleported in fact. It makes a leap from one descrete position to another. Everything moves in such descrete steps - things only appear to move continuously in a smooth motion.
quote:Originally posted by Upside: Interesting thread here. In my younger days I used to have thoughts like these too.... but then I quit taking windowpane.
well i guess i should be insulted upside....after all i am the glassman kookookachoo
posted
so we still come back to same basic issue...
if i close my eyes is the universe/multiverse gone? NO
the law conservation of energy prohibits that..
i suggest that we are still missing the basic building block of the universe...whatever it is that makes space up... like a fish that doesn't know it's in water....
obviously electrons can interect DIRECTLY with this building block......
when i said that we (humans) are thinking in vectorsas opposed to tensors, i mean this....light waves are not just up and down, they are spiral.......it's more dimensions
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Einstein supposedly destroyed some of his work in this direction because of the implications....
basically the implications are that the universe is harmonious.....
his relativity theories do a good job as far as they go, but they do not do a good job of explaining the here and NOW...just what was and what will be.... now, if we can just come up with that monitor that has tomorrows trades on it
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited January 05, 2005).]
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glassman: so we still come back to same basic issue...
if i close my eyes is the universe/multiverse gone? NO
the law conservation of energy prohibits that..
Art: The universe is gone, and you with it along with all things, between descrete quantum state changes. We never know it is gone since we are gone with it. The off states could be trillions of years long in material time, and we would bnever know it since we don't exist. Everything picks up where it left off when the universe blinks on again, and no gap is noticed or measured in any way - clocks don't run in an off state since there are no clocks or anything else.
Conservation of energy applies only to on states - science only deals with on states.
glassman: when i said that we (humans) are thinking in vectorsas opposed to tensors, i mean this....light waves are not just up and down, they are spiral.......it's more dimensions
Art: Light waves don't exist in off states. Geometry doesn't exist in off sates. Particles, physical waves, space and time don't exist in off states. Nothing material or materially related exists in off states.
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My son looks at some of what you say, and shakes his head, and he is only 24! 
