102,133,037,995 Ameritrade, Inc. 96,200,000,000 Computer Clearing Services, Inc. 77,700,000,000 Nevada Minerals 30,000,000,000 Dave Gutka 25,200,000,000 Viacom Holding, Inc. 22,000,000,000 Grant Hodgins 20,000,000,000 Peter Dunn 16,000,000,000 Vince Mazzei 15,000,000,000 Leslie Jones 15,000,000,000 Bill Dwyer 12,200,000,000 ETON Peoperties Corp. 10,000,000,000 PTI Trust 10,000,000,000 Business Works, Inc. 9,000,000,000 GM Steel Trust 8,000,000,000 Alberta Resources Consortium 8,000,000,000 Minerals West Associates 8,000,000,000 Emerson Koch 7,600,000,000 Marty Johnson 6,000,000,000 Max Casavant 6,000,000,000 Dale Casavant 5,482,000,000 James Kinney 5,000,000,000 Ginger Guiterrez 5,000,000,000 Federal One Investments 4,600,000,000 Tundro Trust 4,000,000,000 Saskatchewan Minerals Development 4,000,000,000 Mid America Capital Corp 4,000,000,000 Karen Koch 4,000,000,000 Jeannie Kinney 4,000,000,000 British Columbian Mining Syndicate 4,000,000,000 Albert Finch & Associates 4,000,000,000 Feasibility Mining Services 4,000,000,000 Doyle Trust 4,000,000,000 Docket Reporting Services 3,200,000,000 Cougar Resources 3,000,000,000 Patruum Services SA 2,000,000,000 Glen Emmons 1,600,000,000 Wallace Hiebelhaus 1,600,000,000 1018609 Alberta Ltd. 1,500,000,000 Rick Walker 1,500,000,000 North American Clearing 1,500,000,000 Kart Trust 1,000,000,000 Andy Petryshen 1,000,000,000 Corrine Ward 1,000,000,000 101047025 Saskatchewan Ltd. 1,000,000,000 Arnold Gutka 800,000,000 Paul G 800,000,000 Dan Koch 750,000,000 MCM Trust 750,000,000 JT Trust 610,020,000 Penson Financial Services Canada, Inc. 600,000,000 Ron Bowditch 600,000,000 Joe Knoke 500,000,000 Research Capital Corp 500,000,000 R D Solutions 500,000,000 Oscar B 500,000,000 ABDU Trust 500,000,000 Darren Thul 500,000,000 Jim Oleksyn 450,000,000 Dale Ksyniuk 400,000,000 Barbara Winchar 300,000,000 Vern Armitage 300,000,000 Part Time Management 300,000,000 Nancy P 300,000,000 Mike W 300,000,000 Graeme Langman 300,000,000 Bob Saunders 250,000,000 Peter Koch 250,000,000 Moncef Borni 250,000,000 John Koch 250,000,000 Jim Beattie 240,000,000 Shelby Abrymyk 225,000,000 Gregory C 225,000,000 Herb W 220,000,000 Bernard Georget 200,000,000 Steven Bubalo 200,000,000 Cam Cartier 200,000,000 Connie Cohen 200,000,000 Ronald Boychuk 200,000,000 Cole Koch 200,000,000 Mike Coutuer 200,000,000 John Dunn 200,000,000 Mark Halyk 200,000,000 Jack Barry 200,000,000 Kara Koch 200,000,000 Nadine Koch 200,000,000 Group II AUD Rec. 200,000,000 Grant Woodley 150,000,000 Shamsunder G 150,000,000 Dave Sojgren 150,000,000 Arnie Howardson 150,000,000 Peter E Koch 140,000,000 Francis Mazzei 140,000,000 Myron Jacobsen 140,000,000 Jim Ferchuk 140,000,000 Del Z 125,000,000 Lawrence Henderson 125,000,000 Marcell Georget 100,000,000 Walter Botkin 100,000,000 Barry Pearson 100,000,000 Randy Lucas 100,000,000 Joe Farkas 100,000,000 Diane Okraincee 100,000,000 Linda Schepman 100,000,000 Jim Dunn 100,000,000 Nathan Heale 100,000,000 Armen Nikogisian 100,000,000 Gordon Balon 100,000,000 Bill Walters 100,000,000 Tony Bartone 100,000,000 Al Koch 100,000,000 Jim York 100,000,000 Albert Casavant 100,000,000 Alma P 100,000,000 Dave Jacobsen
-------------------- "keep your stick on the ice & your cup firmly in place" Posts: 3651 | From: Algonac, MI. 48001 | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
But then to it doesn't show the shares they surrendered. So they may be issued shares but lets say that Alma P was issued 100,000,000 and surrendered the shares and Dave Jacobsen was issued the 100 mill shares. The list has a lot of holes to it on why and how???????????? Then too Nevada Minerals did surrender 75 billion shares shortly after they were issued to them.
-------------------- Invest with your brain not with your heart. Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
well we do know a bunch were surrended but it would be nice to see what of those shares are still left out. also it is possible not all of the 500 billion a/s was issued before september but with the numbers on that list only about 179 billion could have been issued before september. the o/s was 779 billion. that list has close to 600 billion minus the 75 from nevada minerals. i dont remember but it seems there were more then 175 billion issued on the master list before september. a cert surrendered does not mean it goes back to the company to be re-issued. its possible but unlikely. that many shares put back into the company treasury would have been a huge pr.
-------------------- "keep your stick on the ice & your cup firmly in place" Posts: 3651 | From: Algonac, MI. 48001 | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I figured it out. If you go to the past Master Shareholders list and compare, all he did was put these in order of certs issued. If you compare cert numbers you will find that these where issued certs and surrendered. They may already had the shares and requested certs or as in Ameritrades case they issued certs and surrendered and issued new certs and so on. Most where sold the same day issued.
-------------------- Invest with your brain not with your heart. Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Okay... when you say 'surrendered' you mean sold on the market? Surrender seems to have a get nothing feel to it.
thanks S5
-------------------- Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.... Posts: 400 | From: Jupiter, somewhere out there | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well surrendered is what you do when you turn in your certs. So when you sell your shares then whoever holds the certs, you or the broker, then the certs are surrendered. When someone buys your shares then a cert is reissued to the new holder with a new cert number. So you buy and sell the shares, the certs are issued and surrendered. It is just the TA terms.
-------------------- Invest with your brain not with your heart. Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
sorry to intervene, but it just amazes me that ANY company, can issue this many shares. There should be some type of regulation to limit the amount of shares a company may issue, based on some principle. (Perhaps a business plan/model, including market projections, would help with "the number of shares allowed to issue". Re-evaluation of said plans, on say a yearly basis, may limit the corruption possibilities. This should also, be a MANDATORY public publication). Of course, it would help the investor make a more informative decision on the investment, rather than following a pipe dream. It would seem there is a major flaw in the system here...and then some.....including R/S's....the SEC really should be putting a cap on this type of non-sense....JMO....carry on....
-------------------- Marty When I was born, I was granted a visitors pass to earth. I will enjoy everyday until it has expired. You should too ;) Posts: 1740 | From: NJ, USA | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
LOL....in that case, let's roast Pam Anderson again..."She fu**** more musicians than Napster!" Ohh, and CMKX "fu**** more shareholders than Enron". Ooops... Have fun!
-------------------- Marty When I was born, I was granted a visitors pass to earth. I will enjoy everyday until it has expired. You should too ;) Posts: 1740 | From: NJ, USA | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I seen that roast. I thought the comments about Courtney Love was good though. But the Napster comment was gold, lol. It was hard to tell who they were roasting sometimes, Pam or Courtney.
-------------------- Invest with your brain not with your heart. Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think Courtney was "roasted", and Pam, was being "Roasted"....LOL.....Courtney sentenced to rehab, shortly thereafter....LOL...Can't she just get addicted to chocolate or some other food, like other women/men? LOL....Now back to your regularly scheduled program, "Got CMKX?" NOT!!!
-------------------- Marty When I was born, I was granted a visitors pass to earth. I will enjoy everyday until it has expired. You should too ;) Posts: 1740 | From: NJ, USA | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Here is the detailed master shareholders list from first issued share to 1/25/2005. Shares issued and surrendered from share one till share 703 billion. Over one thousand pages, lol.
-------------------- Marty When I was born, I was granted a visitors pass to earth. I will enjoy everyday until it has expired. You should too ;) Posts: 1740 | From: NJ, USA | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Page 362, Hal Engel recieved 3 million shares to pump. Thats Willy Wizard's real name. Alone with Sterling. Of course sterlings wife and father got shares too. UC must have thought Sterling was a better pumper.
-------------------- Invest with your brain not with your heart. Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
What also amazes me is Cede&co's transactions. They usually hold part of the float and don't change certs that often because they have a seller for each buyer. But every now and again they balance their books by either surrendering certs or getting issued cert.
What surprises me is all the talk of NSS yet the transactions just don't add up if the DTCC is shorting this to death as some state.
-------------------- Invest with your brain not with your heart. Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I don't know who should go to jail first in this. People like Jay and Acca or UC. Close call, just hope all of them meet bubba up close and personal in jail. So they can get what they did to so many.
gdh God of Diamonds
Re: The jay_abode Show (FWIW) « Reply #3 on Today at 2:30am »
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The other week, jay said "Bingo" to a theory that the high price of oil is directly linked to the Saudi's needing money to cover their short in CMKX.
So every time I fill my tank, it's like I'm issuing myself a dividend.
Jay is entertaining, but that's about it.
-------------------- Invest with your brain not with your heart. Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
one post over there said UC had to be good at heart...he name the smeaton pipe after his wife was the proof given.
also new certs would be re-issued after surrender only if those shares were restricted. if unrestricted then they would be surrendered once sold & thats it. they just become part of the float. the float from the old master list totaled about 650 billion. the thing i'm interested in is how many were issued before this lists beginning date. august had the a/s increase to 800 billion but that was only a 300 billion increase. also the first master list had shares being issued right into 2005. the divy's would have to be issued to all shares in the float or at least held in cede & co. also melvin was screaming the o/s was not 400 billion before august so maybe UC hadn't issued more then the a/s before the increase & the numbers matched correctly on the divys. the last GEMM divy showed up in December but the second GEMM never showed up. but the own by date was a few months before that thus only those shares got the divys. what i'm trying to say is it looks as if UC had to cover his azz because he issued more then the a/s allowed.
-------------------- "keep your stick on the ice & your cup firmly in place" Posts: 3651 | From: Algonac, MI. 48001 | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Posted by: fung_derf In reply to: chisox pat who wrote msg# 183387 Date:8/31/2005 2:57:21 PM Post #of 183389
Amazing. I was reading the board this morning. Still so many proclaiming how they've got shorty right where they want him, and glad they hadn't sold a share. If these people were lab rats, all the electrical shock in the world couldn't get them through the maze.
-------------------- Invest with your brain not with your heart. Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 695 STING OR SCAM, YOU DECIDE. « Thread Started on Yesterday at 12:35pm »
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So you say you have the evidence of Urban's bad faith with the shareholders? What you have is the "one-sided" stack of papers distributed by the SEC in their investigation of CMKX. Do they look bad for Urban and company? You bet, they were gathered by a government organization bent on accumulating and placing the worst light possible on a company. That's their job. Stoecklein's job is/was to show the other side, and for whatever reason, he chose not to. And I suspect that his reasons were proper and judicious.
But with that said, let me present a different picture than the one being presented here by some who have seen those documents. My background is a retired White Collar Crime Detective in a major midwestern city police department. During that time, I had occasion many times to investigate organized criminal corporate crime. So my opinion here is based on some experience, but it is opinion only.
I received a tip last year that the operations of CMKX were a "sting" operation by the Department of Justice, springing from the arrest, conviction and turning of states evidence by Shawn Hackman. I have been looking and researching from that point of view ever since, and have seen nothing to dissuade or discourage that point of view. Quite the contrary, I have seen mounting evidence that tends to support it.
So just for the sake of argument, let me present a possible scenario.
Shawn Hackman is picked up by the DOJ for his activities in a major criminal enterprise.
Hackman flips on everyone he has done business with.
Ed Dhonau's name comes up from corporate activity he shared with Hackman.
Dhonau is called in by DOJ and presented with facts and evidence against him, and given an opportunity to work with the Feds to get to their real target.
Dhonau calls his long time attorney, Roger Glenn, to broker the deal.
Roger involves himself and the DOJ wants to use CMKX as their vehicle for additional sting operations.
UC is called upon to act as the "principal" of the sting, along with Dhonau, and begins "maneuvering" the company in the directions required by the DOJ to gather the necessary information on the "target".
At this point, Urban would have been required to do any number of things that might appear "shady" or criminal in order to accomplish investigative goals. Yes, monies would have changed hands, documents would have been created, shares would have been distributed questionably. In summary, he would have followed the instructions of the DOJ to remain actively complicit in the operations of the "target" until they had gathered enough evidence to spring the trap. I think that was substantially completed several months ago. But DOJ cases often extend out into other operations of their targets, and it is a slow, belabored operation to gather all of the necessary evidence for proper presentation to a special Grand Jury for indictments, frequently encompassing hundreds of counts of criminal activity.
So what happens to the company and the co-operating "principal"? The company goes on with business. In this case, they go on accumulating claims, drilling holes, sampling cores, etc.; while the DOJ goes on about it's prosecution efforts. And the principal goes on acting out his role as best he can until the sting is totally revealed. That most definitely includes PUBLIC SILENCE about anything which might reveal the sting. It includes going on with the "appearance" of being complicit with the target. It includes appearing to be a target of investigation himself, until the sting is complete.
Is Urban capable of carrying out all of this himself? Is he capable of keeping the sting confidential under the scrutiny of partners, thousand of shareholders and other government agencies? Is he capable of keeping the company together and functional under intense public scrutiny of his operations? No, probably not.
In comes Maheu, courtesy of the DOJ. (Of course he has been quietly involved since 03 and the Crystallix deals) Capable of holding together a corporation in troubled times. Capable of "conditioning atmospheres". Capable of brokering deals with Government and Industry. Capable of maintaining secrecy. Capable of assisting in prosecutions. Capable of working with intelligence agencies who may be examining financial terrorism emanating from the hedge funds. Capable of turning back threats from organized crime figures and cartels. How else would a "penny pink scam" manage to involve a man of Maheu's stature and experience except through high level, government intervention?
So is this what happened? I don't know for sure, it's only an opinion. But an opinion that is as valid as anything that has been thrown out here in recent weeks. I know this though, if you apply this scenario, many questionable and troubling occurences begin to make a lot more sense.
All in my opinion of course.
Posts: 2375 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
The government does a sting that effects 50K shareholders. It really is getting so sad its funny or is that so funny its sad.
The truth is so obvious its silly but no one want to hear it. Someone even said it on PB32 and they locked the thread. No way UC is involved even though everything points to him. Oh right we haven't heard the whole story because he took the fifth. You know I like a lot of these people but they will get what they deserve because the facts are there in front of them.
-------------------- Invest with your brain not with your heart. Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Enron wasn't a sting. It was a company that messed over its shareholders just like CMKX. The only difference is CMKX targeted the poor, low middle class, disabled, retired and young new investors that didn't know better.
-------------------- Invest with your brain not with your heart. Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 696 Of Stings and Dilutions « Thread Started on Today at 1:11pm »
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It would seem that if the DOJ involved themselves in CMKX operations after Shawn Hackman turned states evidence (Agreement signed Fed 04) that it may have been necessary to make another huge share authorization to trace the flow and money, in order to identify the culprits: players, hedge funds, Market Makers; and to "follow the money" through its many mazes.
Shortly (about 3 months) after Hackman turned "states", Urban reversed the Mirador (Hackman generated company) merger. Immediately announced Roger Glenn involvement. Started operation "dividend". And then increased the AS after the August "Sask Meeting". It all seems to fit. « Last Edit: Today at 4:02pm by noahltl »
Posts: 2375 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Ric: Enron wasn't a sting. It was a company that messed over its shareholders just like CMKX. The only difference is CMKX targeted the poor, low middle class, disabled, retired and young new investors that didn't know better.
An investigation is an investigation whether sting or not. The point being that they didn't consider the shareholders in their actions.
Posts: 2375 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
This reminds me of the defense for the Scott Peterson case. No body seen him do it and no one seen him dump the body. So he must be innocent. It doesn't matter that he was at the crime scene and fishing at the area she was dumped. It was just a coincidence thats all.
It doesn't matter that it is UC that can only approve of shares being issued, that he stated in a 8-K that the O/S was correct, That he had the check book, and he lost any evidence that may be incriminating. Oh well, he has to be innocent because he is a nice guy and wouldn't do that. I think that was Scott's defense too.
-------------------- Invest with your brain not with your heart. Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
You don't become a great con man by being obvious. They seems prefect actually. They seem like sure best friend and people usually always say after they were conned that they find it hard to believe that this person did that. Thats how they get you. If you thought they were a crook they could never pull off the scam.
Same with cult leaders. They make you want to believe them. They brainwash you into thinking that they can never do you harm. They make themselves better then everyone else and make you want to be more like them. If they didn't have that charm and believability then they could never get you in.
-------------------- Invest with your brain not with your heart. Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
"An investigation is an investigation whether sting or not. The point being that they didn't consider the shareholders in their actions. "
did they consider shareholders???how???tell enron to go make the money they said they made so that the stock wouldn't tank? once a crook steals your money there is nothing the goverment can do to get it back. you think maybe the goverment should have let Enron keep going so the shareholders didn't get hurt? Legal that has to be the most foolish comparision you've come up with yet...lol you have better brains then that. if CMKX is a sting they purposely hurt 50,000 shareholders. as frizzy said the stock is burdened by the o/s...well burdened is a polite term, wiped out is a more accurate term. no 20 companies on this earth could give value to a 703 billion o/s. the demand would never out weight the supply. as soon as it went up the ppl would sell & supply would be replaced. and if cmkx was a sting then UC would have had to be crooked to start with or the goverment would have had no leverage to get him to agree. the CEO of a company is not going to tank a serious company with great value just because the DOJ says we need a scam company to catch crooks. the DOJ would have created a company to play the sting. a more likely senario is hackman blew the whistle on UC & pals & they were to greedy to stop. the DOJ sat back & watched for a few months collecting evidence & then sent the SEC in to shut it down, step 1. after thats done the criminal cases will start. hackman probably didn't throw CMKX to the wolves but 1 of its buddies & the trail has lead to cmkx, sggm & usca. GEMM is probably in its sites also along with a few others. naked shorting is a differant problem, case & group of investigators.
-------------------- "keep your stick on the ice & your cup firmly in place" Posts: 3651 | From: Algonac, MI. 48001 | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I was reading on another board and they said something I think will probably happen. Once Frizzell names UC as one of the bad guys that the cult will start claiming Frizzell was a NSS plant all alone. lol
-------------------- Invest with your brain not with your heart. Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I hope somebody makes a movie out of all this. But then, maybe it would be too unbelievable. And the casting would be a nightmare.
-------------------- If I give you bad information, please feel free to sue me. I have nothing left anyway. Ed Posts: 1772 | From: Oxford, PA, USA | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
if he names UC... i saw a lot of ppl thinking he might & they didn't like it. 1 was going to call him today just to scream about even implying UC did anything wrong. not 1 of these ppl understand not 1 share gets in the o/s without UC's signature & no court anywhere will even look at a case about this without UC at the top of the defendants list.
-------------------- "keep your stick on the ice & your cup firmly in place" Posts: 3651 | From: Algonac, MI. 48001 | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
By: zahnj 31 Aug 2005, 01:48 PM EDT Msg. 254552 of 254552 (This msg. is a reply to 254519 by elvis-is-here.) Jump to msg. #
Elvis Drymouth said that the paperwork that Frizzell shared with that group in Texas showed that at one point Urban was giving shares to people in Canada. I don't know if these were gifts or in payment for services. When the people sold the shares the deal was they had to kick back some money to Urban.
Drymouth also said that Urban talks frequesntly to friends about his belief that he may go to jail for something.
And before you all label me as a basher check my previous posts and talk to others who were in PT last night.
Drymouth also said he's not selling any shares, believes we have valuation and there are ways we can make a profit with cmkx.
-------------------- Invest with your brain not with your heart. Posts: 4405 | From: Bristol, Tn, USA | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
Topic Closed
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Have fun!![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
NOT!!!
