posted
What the hell is going on? The most liberal states in the country are in the red from overspending...California and New York and its getting UGLY fast. They are going to disguise the bailout of our taxes going to them by "guaranteed debt"
Is it any surprise that more conservative and business friendly states are doing better?
Then this:
Supermercado de Walmart Opens
PHOENIX - Walmart is trying to dive deeper into the $90 billion-a-year Hispanic grocery market by opening a new supermarket in west Phoenix today.
The Supermercado de Walmart is one of two stores nationwide that will test the country's appetite for a possible string of Hispanic supermarkets. The giant retailer says its other store that opened in Houston April 29 is far exceeding expectations.
More News »
Phoenix and Houston were chosen for their large, multigenerational Hispanic populations with considerable spending power. Arizona has about 2 million Hispanic consumers.
Walmart has gained considerable knowledge and experience marketing to consumers in Mexico and Latin America and hopes to leverage it to boost sales to U.S. Hispanics, who have an estimated buying power of about $1 trillion a year.
A study of Hispanic buying power by Oklahoma State University found that Hispanics spend a larger portion of their household incomes on food -- $128.50 per week compared with $91 for non-Hispanics
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
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cash i live in MS, they just raised taxes on cigarrettes, and they are proposing taxing hospitals which would in turn mean more charges ti health insurance payers which would in turn etc. etc. etc.
the governor gets on the air and complains about Obama raising energy taxes while he's tryin' to raise health car taxes. WTF? is up with that?
we already have casinos, but hey are not generating revenues like they are expected to because people are not SPENDING.
the Bush plan called for everybody to borrow and spend, including the GOVT.
the Fair Tax? here's what's going on in Missouri. they are thinking of trying it, wanna see our economy collapse even further? get this "Far Tax" as a federal plan and we'll be third world in less than five years.
'Fair Tax' not all it's advertised to be Thursday, June 11, 2009 | 8:35 a.m. CDT
'Fair Tax' not all it's advertised to be Thursday, June 11, 2009 | 8:35 a.m. CDT BY Jane Whitesides, Glasgow
Saturday there will be a “Fair Tax” rally at the Boone County Fairgrounds. This is being billed as the first "fair tax" rally west of the Mississippi and is designed to build support for replacing the corporate and individual income tax with a sales tax.
This legislation would make our already regressive tax system even more regressive with more low- and middle-income Missourians paying more as a share of their income in taxes than do the wealthy. Under the “Fair Tax,” the only Missourians who wouldn’t pay higher taxes are the wealthiest 5 percent. Anyone in the top 5 percent of the income distribution will see a tax cut on average under HJR 36, and those with an average income of more than $1 million will get an average tax cut of $22,864. The tax would apply to everything you buy (food, rent, prescriptions drugs, property) and to all services (doctor’s visits, babysitting services, nursing home services). Two states with no income tax face serious fiscal deficits. Tennessee’s budget shortfall for 2010 is 9 percent of the general fund budget, $856 million, and Washington State has one has one of the largest projected budget shortfalls in the country, more than $3 billion or 18.5 percent of its general fund budget.
posted
I don't think the fair tax is designed to work in a State enviroment because the biggest savings to the poor would be in not paying payroll taxes (s.s. and mc). Also the national fair tax gives a break to the first 25,000.00 spent on necessary items.
-------------------- Let's Go METS!!! Posts: 3317 | From: CT | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted 10-06-2009 23:46 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What the hell is going on? The most liberal states in the country are in the red from overspending...California and New York and its getting UGLY fast. They are going to disguise the bailout of our taxes going to them by "guaranteed debt"
Is it any surprise that more conservative and business friendly states are doing better?
Then this: ----------------------------------------------------
This crazy California is not a liberal state financialy.
State like Oregon are liberal states Alaska is one of the biggest welfare liberal states in the country.
New Jersaey has the highest median incomes in the country so does Maryland and they are very progressive. Most of california is very conservative with a state government that is almost totally controlled by lobbist especialy the ag.business
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise. Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008
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California isnt a liberal state financially? So spending 25% of Los Angeles County's welfare on illegal aliens is conservative then?
According to new data from the Department of Public Social Services, nearly twenty five percent of Los Angeles County ’s welfare and food stamp benefits goes directly to the children of illegal aliens, at a cost of $36 million a month -- for a projected annual cost of $432 million.
“The total cost for illegal immigrants to County taxpayers far exceeds $1 billion a year – not including the millions of dollars for education,” said Antonovich. “With $220 million for public safety, $400 million for healthcare, and $432 million in welfare allocations, illegal immigration continues to have a devastating impact on Los Angeles County taxpayers.” Illegal immigration continues to have a devastating impact on all of California.
Californias open door and sancuary city policies spread throughout the state is hurting them so bad.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
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cash, i lived in the middle of that for five years.
putting illegals on welfare (anywhere) is NOT liberal.
if you follow the MONEY?
you'll find conservative business people behind the project. why? because they get to hire dirt cheap labor subsidized by the state. businesses use illegal labor to drive down the cost of "legal" labor too. no business would survive underpaying people in a strong economy unless those people have no choice but to accept their lot in life. to make their "lot" socially acceptable? we add subsidies like medicaid and welfare. fact is? the largest co's take the most advantage of this. most welfare recipients today HAVE JOBS
this is the shell game that "conservative" leaders have been playing for years.
it's the same here in MS too, but it's different people being subjugated.
liberal politicians usually come out ahead on the votes gained from these policies, but the money is going to "conservatives"
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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alifornia is not a liberal state the people that live there never voted to give all the wefare and aid to illgals as a matter of fact they have vote against such every time . It is corporate America that rams the welfare and aid to illgals down everybodies thorat to keep there cheap labor in the state.
As usual right wing idiots are behind every financial problem in the country and they smother it with lies,religion,and the flag.
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise. Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: cash, i lived in the middle of that for five years.
putting illegals on welfare (anywhere) is NOT liberal.
if you follow the MONEY?
you'll find conservative business people behind the project. why? because they get to hire dirt cheap labor subsidized by the state. businesses use illegal labor to drive down the cost of "legal" labor too. no business would survive underpaying people in a strong economy unless those people have no choice but to accept their lot in life. to make their "lot" socially acceptable? we add subsidies like medicaid and welfare. fact is? the largest co's take the most advantage of this. most welfare recipients today HAVE JOBS
this is the shell game that "conservative" leaders have been playing for years.
it's the same here in MS too, but it's different people being subjugated.
liberal politicians usually come out ahead on the votes gained from these policies, but the money is going to "conservatives"
Oh I am aware of this. That is why Bush didnt do a damn thing for immigration because of all the Texas big rancher/farmers who loved the cheap labor.
What about the other races on welfare in Calfironia though like the blacks? Are they out in huge numbers working on farms like the latinos? Asians?
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
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they are here. but the farm jobs here are gone, they work at places like walmart (for instance):
In 2007, according to the Census Bureau, 37.3 million people, or 12.5 percent of the population, lived at or below the offi cial poverty level.1 Although the Nation’s poor were primarily children and adults who had not participated in the labor force during the year, 7.5 million were among the “working poor.” This level is slightly higher than the level reported in 2006. The working poor are individuals who spent at least 27 weeks in the labor force (working or looking for work), but whose incomes still fell below the offi cial poverty level. In 2007, the working poor rate—the ratio of the working poor to all individuals in the labor force for at least 27 weeks—was 5.1 percent, unchanged from the rate reported in 2006. (See tables A and 1, and chart 1.)
Black and Hispanic workers continued to be more than twice as likely as their White counterparts to be poor. Asians were least likely to be among the working poor in 2007
Among families with at least one member in the labor force for 27 weeks or more, those families with children under 18 years old were 5 times more likely than those without children to live in poverty. • Women who maintain families were more than twice as likely as their male counterparts to be among the working poor.
Although 71 percent of the working poor were White workers, Black and Hispanic workers continued to be more than twice as likely as their White counterparts to be among the working poor.
quote:Originally posted by raybond: alifornia is not a liberal state the people that live there never voted to give all the wefare and aid to illgals as a matter of fact they have vote against such every time . It is corporate America that rams the welfare and aid to illgals down everybodies thorat to keep there cheap labor in the state.
As usual right wing idiots are behind every financial problem in the country and they smother it with lies,religion,and the flag.
Are you saying "only right wing idiots" own and run corporations?
-------------------- Let's Go METS!!! Posts: 3317 | From: CT | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: What the hell is going on? The most liberal states in the country are in the red from overspending...California and New York and its getting UGLY fast. They are going to disguise the bailout of our taxes going to them by "guaranteed debt"
Is it any surprise that more conservative and business friendly states are doing better?
Then this:
Supermercado de Walmart Opens
PHOENIX - Walmart is trying to dive deeper into the $90 billion-a-year Hispanic grocery market by opening a new supermarket in west Phoenix today.
The Supermercado de Walmart is one of two stores nationwide that will test the country's appetite for a possible string of Hispanic supermarkets. The giant retailer says its other store that opened in Houston April 29 is far exceeding expectations.
More News »
Phoenix and Houston were chosen for their large, multigenerational Hispanic populations with considerable spending power. Arizona has about 2 million Hispanic consumers.
Walmart has gained considerable knowledge and experience marketing to consumers in Mexico and Latin America and hopes to leverage it to boost sales to U.S. Hispanics, who have an estimated buying power of about $1 trillion a year.
A study of Hispanic buying power by Oklahoma State University found that Hispanics spend a larger portion of their household incomes on food -- $128.50 per week compared with $91 for non-Hispanics
Why am I not surprised you created this thread? You didn't make one about any Wal-mart being built in any town catering to everyone. instead you focused on a Wal-Mart that is focusing on one ethnic group, which by the way is a smart business move considering the buying power of the hispanic population especially pertaining to food buying.
So ole Wise one, tell me why shouldn't Wal Mart cater to the hispanic population of that area? And spare me the illegal immigrant angle because contrary to belief not all hispanics are illegal and there is no law saying they cannot spend U.S. dollars on American goods even if they are illegal but thats not the point. But to let you know 15.1% of the U.S. population are hispanic that are legal or rougly 45 million which is predicted to be about 105 million by the year 2050. And you want Wal Mart to ignore that population that spends in upwards of $1 trillion dollars for now and higher later on because of your Hispanophobia? lol
I'm sure you have heard this before Cowman:
Stop mooing...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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Should we build an asian and african walmart? Why cant walmart being as awesome and so grand as they are just include all varieties in one store. Its pandering.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
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"which by the way is a smart business move considering the buying power of the hispanic population especially pertaining to food buying.'
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They will find out if it is a smart business move.
But i can't see the difference there than in other cities where complete areas are set up for certain ethnic groups and have been for many generations.
We have many areas here in California, Little Saigon etc. and so do other parts of the country.
That's the way it is, if they don't have enough buyers they fail, pretty simple, unless their bailed out by gov.
Posts: 3875 | From: ca. | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Should we build an asian and african walmart? Why cant walmart being as awesome and so grand as they are just include all varieties in one store. Its pandering.
Asian? sure why not? if Walmart thinks the population supports having one in a asian community/Chinatown's.... as for African? I would assume you mean African Americans/Blacks of America... I might be blind but I think they already go to Walmart and buy the foods there which for the most part are the same as what you eat Cowman...
As for including all varieties in one store? Hispanics eat a little different then you.. their diet... and these supermercado's will be built in hispanic communities not a mixed community... is that difficult for you to understand?...
You don't sell asian food in a Walmart located in a hispanic community... and vice versa... and if hispanic products were in a walmart catering to a black/white community, you would just be complaining that the labels are not in english, the food is hispanic etc.. etc.. i would like to think you have more business sense in your mind then cowpies Cowman to know that when you open a store of any kind in a ethnic neighborhood that you cater to what that ethnicity likes...
My guess is you have not spent much time in hispanic, asian or other ethnic communities Cowman.... because if you did you would notice what food products are on the shelves of the local grocery/supermarkets there... i have obviously spent time in both hispanic supermarkets and asian ones for obvious reasons... trust me when i say if i want hispanic food products I don't go to a walmart in a black neighborhood etc.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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They will find out if it is a smart business move.
But i can't see the difference there than in other cities where complete areas are set up for certain ethnic groups and have been for many generations.
We have many areas here in California, Little Saigon etc. and so do other parts of the country.
That's the way it is, if they don't have enough buyers they fail, pretty simple, unless their bailed out by gov.
It is a smart business move... and when they say Phoenix and Houston they do not mean just anywhere in those cities but obviously where the hispanic population resides... the hispanic communities...
Hispanics (or ethnics in general) do spend more on food buying then white america... it is just part of their cultures... food... life centers around food in those cultures more so then the general american population...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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"It is a smart business move... and when they say Phoenix and Houston they do not mean just anywhere in those cities but obviously where the hispanic population resides... the hispanic communities..."
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Most likely is since they do a lot of research before making there decisions.
But with changing demographics due to the economy i like to leave some space, because you never know.
We have been reminded in the last year that nothing is for sure in business ...GM etc.
Posts: 3875 | From: ca. | Registered: Jul 2005
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They will find out if it is a smart business move.
But i can't see the difference there than in other cities where complete areas are set up for certain ethnic groups and have been for many generations.
We have many areas here in California, Little Saigon etc. and so do other parts of the country.
That's the way it is, if they don't have enough buyers they fail, pretty simple, unless their bailed out by gov.
It is a smart business move... and when they say Phoenix and Houston they do not mean just anywhere in those cities but obviously where the hispanic population resides... the hispanic communities...
Hispanics (or ethnics in general) do spend more on food buying then white america... it is just part of their cultures... food... life centers around food in those cultures more so then the general american population...
Im just sick of the crap flowing across the border. The drugs and the violence, the human trafficking, the brothels going up all over the border states with kidnapped underage women, its sick and its a damn disease on the country. Guess where its coming? The place we are telling...hey come over here for free healthcare, free education, free everything, dont worry the people who create wealth will pay for it all. Then we got turncoat bastar** who hire them and encourage cheap labor...ugh
Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Im just sick of the crap flowing across the border. The drugs and the violence, the human trafficking, the brothels going up all over the border states with kidnapped underage women, its sick and its a damn disease on the country. Guess where its coming? The place we are telling...hey come over here for free healthcare, free education, free everything, dont worry the people who create wealth will pay for it all. Then we got turncoat bastar** who hire them and encourage cheap labor...ugh
And this has to do with the topic of the title you chose for this Thread? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING... opening a Walmart that caters to the hispanic communities of Houston and Phoenix does not create the problems you just mentioned... again it is your OWN HISPANOPHOBIA causing you to rant and rave with absolutely nothing to back it up...
Organized crime is NOT a ethnic problem... it is a HUMAN problem... there is organized crime in all races: white, black, hispanic, asian etc... and guess what? They all participate in the same exact problems you just mentioned.All traffic in guns, drugs, prostitutes, robberies, murders, money laundering etc. And all participate regardless of legal or illegal citizenship status in this country. Read the newspapers of any big city in the U.S. and you will see headlines from time to time of Russian, italian, black, Albanian, asian, Irish, etc. MOBS.... why don't you condemn those? Why don't you condemn Wal mart for selling food to those people in those cities?
I find it funny how your so concerned about what goes from South to North but your not concerned what goes from North to South such as ILLEGAL guns that fuels the violence in Mexico which in turn keeps the cartels in power to continue trafficking drugs, laundered money which also keeps them in power etc. It's a cycle. You can't stop one flow of things (South to North) without also stopping the flow of things the other way also which feeds it (North to South).
But anyways that is not the point. The point is you chose a topic about Wal Mart opening supermarkets in the U.S. catering to an ethnic group and now you somehow tie that to drug trafficking, violence, prostitution,illegal immigration etc.????
Let me yet once again enlighten you my Cow friend. Wal mart sells food to people and that in no way ties into crime. 45 million (15.1% of the population) LEGAL hispanics live here in their own close knit communities for the most part and it would be stupid of Wal Mart not to try to take market share of that ethnic group which is the biggest minority group that by the year 2050 will number more or less to around 100 million. Key word LEGAL hispanics. They currently spend in upwards of $1 TRILLION USD across the nation and about $90 BILLION in the Texas/AZ area. Now I would like to think that you have some business and economic sense to realize the financial potentional to Wal Mart in this case and put your prejudices away to see clearly for once. Because one (Wal Mart supermercardos) has nothing to do with the other (Mexican organized crime) other then perhaps the guns Wal Mart may unwittingly be selling to straw buyers that then smuggle across the border to Mexico but that is not the case with the article you posted because it is a SUPERMARKET of which they do not sell guns.
My ONLY concern with Wal mart opening such SUPER super markets is that it could destroy small businesses in the hispanic communities that already sell food there. Such as small supermarkets, bodegas etc. Wal Mart tends to have that effect whereever they open regardless of what race the community makeup is. That is what you should be concerned with Cowman not your lunatic thinkings that this somehow promotes mexican organized crime. You should be concerned with the destruction of small businesses run by law abiding hispanics that are living the American Dream through hard work just like you want them to through legal means of citizenship/residency and running food businesses (or any legal business) to support themselves and their families and not be on welfare and such. Do you get it now? If not then :
STOP MOOING...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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Most likely is since they do a lot of research before making there decisions.
But with changing demographics due to the economy i like to leave some space, because you never know.
We have been reminded in the last year that nothing is for sure in business ...GM etc.
Nothing is absolute in business but the biggest or 2nd biggest ethnic group that spends up to $1 trillion dollars per year in this country that will be a population of over 100 million in the next 40 years and spend more on food then on anything else in good or bad times sure is a good risk to take by the biggest retailer in the world don't you think?
Food is a necessity, cars (at least to this ethnic group) really isn't.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Hispanics (or ethnics in general) do spend more on food buying then white america... it is just part of their cultures... food... life centers around food in those cultures more so then the general american population...
what on earth are you talking about?
Hispanics buy more food than anybody else? that's hilarious. you live in NYC and you think you know America? i'm sorry Mach but i know you cannot prove that statement.
I find it funny how your so concerned about what goes from South to North but your not concerned what goes from North to South such as ILLEGAL guns that fuels the violence in Mexico
guns do not fuel violence.
violent people get guns and commit crimes with them. that's what fuels violence, violent people.
the fact that Mexico cannot deal with it's violence problems shows how poorly they manage their own country and blaming it on Americans is excuse making.
Mexico is #8 in murder rates at .13 per 1000 people and the US is #24 at .04 per 1000 people. the US has less than 1/4 the murder rate of Mexico yet we have LEGAL guns here. somehwere between 1/4 and 1/2 of all Americans own guns yet we have a lower murder rate.
if that doesn't prove to you that guns make individuals safer? nothing ever will...
The Mexican Army is the biggest gun supplier and owner in Mexico. Nobody has yet proven that guns are entering Mexico illegally in large numbers. The fact is that the Mexican Army supplies most of the guns in Mexico, even the ones owned by the "criminals".
people in Mexico are abused by their govt and their "overlords" much more than people are abused here. (i am not saying there is no abuse here..
give it up on the Guns. people come here to live besause we are FREE! we are FREE! because we own and maintain firearms not in spite of them. they come here to be FREE. it's got damn little to do with money either. money and it's availablity to the average people is just a representation of freedom. In Mexico the wealthy refuse to even allow a middle class, and heaven forbid that an average person would be able to defend themselves against the murderous gangs down there.
Organized crime is NOT a ethnic problem.
maybe not, but anybody who has done business in Mexico knows damn well the whole country is one big organised crime.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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Ya might wanna read this report from the GAO glassy.
Study: U.S. lacks strategy to fight arms smuggling into Mexico Story Highlights Drug violence reportedly has killed more than 2,900 people this year in Mexico
Most of drug cartel weapons seized are smuggled from U.S., report says
U.S. government lacks strategy to combat arms trafficking, study says
Government Accountability Office report will be released at subpanel hearing
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Most of the weapons that Mexican drug cartels use are smuggled from the United States, but the U.S. government lacks a cohesive strategy to combat the arms trafficking, according to a Government Accountability Office report to be released Thursday.
In Mexico last year, drug violence was blamed for the deaths of 78 soldiers and more than 6,000 others. This year, the drug violence has claimed more than 2,900 lives, according to the newspaper El Universal.
Much of the violence has affected the U.S.-Mexico border.
Over the last five years, about 87 percent of firearms seized and traced by Mexican authorities were purchased in the United States, a draft of the report says. Most of the weapons were acquired at gun shops and shows in border states, according to the report. Many of these are high-caliber and high-power weapons, including AK-47s and AR-15 semiautomatic rifles.
The two agencies tasked with curbing arms smuggling to Mexico, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and Department of Homeland Security, "do not effectively coordinate their efforts, in part because the agencies lack clear roles and responsibilities," according to the draft.
In a statement Thursday, W. Larry Ford, ATF assistant director, said the bureau and Immigration and Customs Enforcement "are working to finalize a memorandum of understanding to maximize our joint effectiveness to combat violent crime along the Southwest border."
U.S. agencies also face other obstacles.
Officials told the GAO that some federal firearms laws restrict the collection of information of arms purchases and limit reporting requirements for multiple sales, hindering anti-smuggling efforts.
Of the guns traced back to the United States, about 68 percent were manufactured there and about 19 percent were made in other countries and imported to the U.S. before being smuggled to Mexico.
"The U.S. government lacks a strategy to address arms trafficking to Mexico," the draft of the report says.
The GAO noted that U.S. anti-drug efforts in Mexico do not focus on weapons smuggling, and most of the efforts are aimed at keeping the flow of drugs from coming north, not stopping arms from flowing south.
The report will say that the $1.4 billion Merida Initiative, the biggest drug enforcement aid package the United States has given Mexico, does not provide dedicated funding to stop weapons smuggling.
Most of the weapons cross into Mexico in vehicles crossing international bridges along the border, where southbound inspections by customs officials are rare.
Customs and Border Protection, which oversees the international crossings, reported that in the 2008 fiscal year, a total of 70 weapons were seized in southbound inspections.
In the same time period, Mexican authorities captured 30,000 weapons, 7,200 of which were submitted to the ATF for tracing, the report says. The gap between seizures and traces is a statistic that gun-rights groups say puts in question whether the majority of illegal guns in Mexico really come from the United States.
The report will be released Thursday afternoon at a hearing on arms trafficking held by the House Foreign Affairs Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere.
All AboutMexico • U.S. Customs and Border Protection
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious. Posts: 3311 | From: St. Louis | Registered: Feb 2005
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"Most of drug cartel weapons seized are smuggled from U.S., report says"
What report was that I wonder and who put it together. I really doubt they are getting fully automatic weapons from the US like they want everyone to believe. The only guns that are traceable are from the US. The rest they have no clue. So much comes up from Columbia to Mexico to fuel the narco gangs when it comes to weapons.
I bet they will say we supply columbia with weapons, and north korea next. Give me a break. Anyone with common sense knows there is an underground market and its a lot CHEAPER to buy guns on black market from third world countries than to pay premium prices in America and then smuggle them INTO Mexico....get the F out of here my goodness.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: "Most of drug cartel weapons seized are smuggled from U.S., report says"
What report was that I wonder and who put it together. I really doubt they are getting fully automatic weapons from the US like they want everyone to believe. The only guns that are traceable are from the US. The rest they have no clue. So much comes up from Columbia to Mexico to fuel the narco gangs when it comes to weapons.
I bet they will say we supply columbia with weapons, and north korea next. Give me a break. Anyone with common sense knows there is an underground market and its a lot CHEAPER to buy guns on black market from third world countries than to pay premium prices in America and then smuggle them INTO Mexico....get the F out of here my goodness.
If you actually read the article instead of spouting off ignorantly as usual, you'd see the report came from the GAO. And I wasn't talking about full auto weapons, another error on your part to state that.
PS: I won't be getting the "F" outta here...well....at at least not until you go "F" yourself first. Lemme know when that happens Mooboy.
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious. Posts: 3311 | From: St. Louis | Registered: Feb 2005
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once again this proves that WE have a viable tracking and responsibility system which other countries do not have.
alot of moderate people like fact check org, i like fact check dot org too here's what they say:
Counting Mexico's Guns April 17, 2009 Updated: April 22, 2009 President Obama says 90 percent of Mexico's recovered crime guns come from the U.S. That's not what the statistics show. Summary There's no dispute that thousands of handguns, military-style rifles and other firearms are purchased in the U.S. and end up in the hands of Mexican criminals each year. It's relatively easy to buy such guns legally in Texas and other border states and to smuggle them across.
But is it true, as President Obama said, that "[m]ore than 90 percent of the guns recovered in Mexico come from the United States?" Government statistics don’t actually support that claim.
The figure represents only the percentage of crime guns that have been submitted by Mexican officials and traced by U.S. officials. We can find no hard data on the total number of guns actually "recovered in Mexico," but U.S. and Mexican officials both say that Mexico recovers more guns than it submits for tracing. Therefore, the percentage of guns "recovered" that are traced to U.S. sources necessarily is less than 90 percent. Where do the others come from? U.S. officials can’t say.
Fox News has put the percentage of guns that have been traced to U.S. sources at only 17 percent, but we find that to be based on a mistaken assumption that throws its figure way off. We can't offer a precise calculation because we know of no hard information on the total number of guns Mexican officials have recovered. But if a rough figure given by Mexico's attorney general is accurate, then the actual percentage of all Mexican crime guns that have been traced to U.S. sources is more than double what Fox News has reported.
Correction, April 22: We originally concluded that Obama’s 90 percent figure was “not true” and based on a “badly biased” sample of recovered guns. We are retracting both those characterizations, and we apologize to our readers for this error. We have rewritten the article throughout to correct this.
Our error was to think we had confirmed that Mexican officials submit for tracing only those guns they believe likely to have come from the U.S. Law enforcement officials say they don't know if that's the case.
now, lemme ask you a serious question, do your really beleive the Mexican Govt is going to take repsonsibiltiy for teh guns they are selling?
cauz they are
cuz i know for fact that inMexico there are lots of full auot weapons, i've seen asn heard them.
they are NOT buying the full auto stuff here, they are buying 50 cal sniper rifles and handguns.
the GAO report is a blatant attempt to skew the figures to make a move toward more firearm regulations here.
Mexico has a severe kidnapping problem and truck hijacking problem too. is that our fault?
even tho guns are basically illegal in Mexico? they are everywhere i know, i've seen 'em, and the real problem is that life is dirt cheap there
go down to a non-tourist city for New Years and listen you'll be amazed at how many full auot weapons there are being shot off to celebrate the new year
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
In Death by Government (Transaction, 1994), R.J. Rummel estimates that between 1900 and 1920, various Mexican governments killed over 1.4 million people, through slave labor, executions, and other means, not including the hundreds of thousands more who died at the hands of rebels or from other war-related causes.
A new constitution, adopted in 1917, at last recognized a right to arms. Article 10 of the Mexican Constitution, as amended, states:
“The inhabitants of the United Mexican States have the right to possess arms in their homes for their security and legitimate defense with the exception of those prohibited by federal law and of those reserved for the exclusive use of the Army, Navy, Air Force, and National Guard. Federal law shall determine the cases, conditions and place in which the inhabitants may be authorized to bear arms.”
In 1994, Mexico had a total homicide rate of 17.6 per 100,000 population. Of these homicides, 9.9 were by firearm, and 7.7 by other means. Mexican law enforcement against violent crime is widely regarded as ineffectual and dishonest.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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Most of the weapons cross into Mexico in vehicles crossing international bridges along the border, where southbound inspections by customs officials are rare.
this is hilarious. mexico complains about US? i've been across the border well over a hundred times. the only times i've been searched is coming back, and that was rare.
as a matter of fact? i've barely slowed down to nod to the Federales on the way in most times...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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According to the GAO report, a total of 29,824 firearms were seized in Mexico in 2008. That number comes from CENAPI, the Spanish acronym for Mexico’s Planning, Analysis and Information Center for Combating Crime, GAO said. We had great difficulty pinning down the number of guns recovered, and eventually relied on an account citing Mexico’s attorney general, who reportedly said that nearly 30,000 guns had been recovered over the years 2007 and 2008 — a two-year period. The new data mean that Mexican officials are submitting an even smaller percentage of the firearms they seize for tracing by ATF than we had previously believed.
"Close to 6,000 were successfully traced -- and of those, 90 percent -- 5,114 to be exact, according to testimony in Congress by William Hoover -- were found to have come from the U.S."
quote:Originally posted by T e x: I've been searched going in, where I didn't expect to be...Presidio/Ojinaga. It was, um... inconvenient.
But lottsa stuff used to go South through there--prolly still does.
yeah Tex, but i'm confident you know what i'm saying about the law enforcement situation in Mexico.
i got shaken down plenty of times down there by the cops... never once robbed by civilians. heck i like Mexico, but this complaining about US being the cause of their problems is nonesense.
we all cause problems with each other to some degree or another.
i am searching for a list of th eguns traced by make and model now.. i bet when i find them they are almost all cheapo pistols and specialty high power sniper rifles. not full auto assault weapons.
why would they pay US prices for full auto when they can get 'em much cheaper in eastern europe and Russia?
the price is ten times her what it is over htere.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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A comprehensive analysis of firearms trace data over the past three years indicates that Texas, Arizona and California are the three largest source States, respectively, for firearms illegally trafficked to Mexico. In FY 2008 alone, 2,514 firearms seized in Mexico were traced to sources in Texas, Arizona and California. The remaining 47 States accounted for 1,053 traces in FY 2007.
that's not very many weapons considering how many there are:
Until recently drug traffickers’ “weapon of choice” had been .38 caliber handguns. However, they now have developed a preference for more powerful weapons, such as the .233 semi-automatic rifle, the AK-47 variant rifle, 5.57 caliber pistols, and .50 caliber rifles; ATF has seized each of these types of weapons as those weapons en route to Mexico.
and this is where the BS starts:
none of those are assault rifles.
they merely appear to look like them...
note that this case was broken by a federal licensed gun dealer,i'd like to see more details on wher the guns actually came from:
While on the subject of FFLs, I would like to note that the vast majority of gun dealers are in compliance with firearms regulations and are genuinely interested in keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. For example, in 2007, a tip from an FFL involving a firearms trafficker purchasing two .50 caliber rifles, as well as other firearms recovered in Mexico, prompted an undercover ATF operation. That investigation led to the arrest of the leader and his two coconspirators for attempting to purchase several handguns and a fully automatic M-60 machine gun. In September 2008, the leader was sentenced to 30 months incarceration and 84 months of supervised release.
We can report that our efforts are paying off. Mexico has increased the number of firearms it has submitted for tracing from 3,312 in FY 2007, to 7,743 in FY 2008, and over 7,500 to date this fiscal year.
As noted, ATF’s Project Gunrunner has experienced numerous successes, referring for prosecution 795 cases since October 1st, 2003, involving 1,685 defendants, including 1,035 defendants who trafficked an estimated 12,835 guns.
an average of a dozen guns per smuggler? those are hardly big time criminals...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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when trying to discover how many guns are manufactured and sol din the US to get a comparison on how many are going to Mexico? i get a access denied message from Treasury
posted
See, anti gun spin doctors dont like to talk about the globa gun trafficking and illegal arms trade. Its like it doesnt exist with them. They must do whatever it takes to make guns look bad and if its an easy story then they go after it. Sure, blame violence in Mexico and drug cartels on guns in America to scare people into hating guns. What a joke.
The Obama administration will leak stuff out like this as if it is 100% no other variables involved but American guns.
Im sure nobody takes into consideration the CORRUPTION of Mexican police and government to acquire military grade weapons. Again...nobody wants to focus on what the biggest issue is.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:Originally posted by T e x: I've been searched going in, where I didn't expect to be...Presidio/Ojinaga. It was, um... inconvenient.
But lottsa stuff used to go South through there--prolly still does.
yeah Tex, but i'm confident you know what i'm saying about the law enforcement situation in Mexico.
i got shaken down plenty of times down there by the cops... never once robbed by civilians. heck i like Mexico, but this complaining about US being the cause of their problems is nonesense.
we all cause problems with each other to some degree or another.
i am searching for a list of th eguns traced by make and model now.. i bet when i find them they are almost all cheapo pistols and specialty high power sniper rifles. not full auto assault weapons.
why would they pay US prices for full auto when they can get 'em much cheaper in eastern europe and Russia?
the price is ten times her what it is over htere.
guns?
I imagine they take whatever is available, from where/when ever. Narcotrafficantes can afford whatever, too.
But a lot of stuff that goes South is stolen vehicles, heavy equipment, and trailers.
In Oaxaca, one time, I hired a fishing guide. At the end of the day, he asked me to bring fishing equipment the next time I came down: He had two rods, three reels, and three of four lures. Waiting for me to come back was better/cheaper than any alternative he had...
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Next week Obama admin is working on "immigration reform" whatever that means.
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