This is topic Mexican Walmarts in Phoenix, and the meltdown the the most liberal states in forum Off-Topic Post, Non Stock Talk at Allstocks.com's Bulletin Board.
What the hell is going on? The most liberal states in the country are in the red from overspending...California and New York and its getting UGLY fast. They are going to disguise the bailout of our taxes going to them by "guaranteed debt"
Is it any surprise that more conservative and business friendly states are doing better?
Then this:
Supermercado de Walmart Opens
PHOENIX - Walmart is trying to dive deeper into the $90 billion-a-year Hispanic grocery market by opening a new supermarket in west Phoenix today.
The Supermercado de Walmart is one of two stores nationwide that will test the country's appetite for a possible string of Hispanic supermarkets. The giant retailer says its other store that opened in Houston April 29 is far exceeding expectations.
More News »
Phoenix and Houston were chosen for their large, multigenerational Hispanic populations with considerable spending power. Arizona has about 2 million Hispanic consumers.
Walmart has gained considerable knowledge and experience marketing to consumers in Mexico and Latin America and hopes to leverage it to boost sales to U.S. Hispanics, who have an estimated buying power of about $1 trillion a year.
A study of Hispanic buying power by Oklahoma State University found that Hispanics spend a larger portion of their household incomes on food -- $128.50 per week compared with $91 for non-Hispanics
cash i live in MS, they just raised taxes on cigarrettes, and they are proposing taxing hospitals which would in turn mean more charges ti health insurance payers which would in turn etc. etc. etc.
the governor gets on the air and complains about Obama raising energy taxes while he's tryin' to raise health car taxes. WTF? is up with that?
we already have casinos, but hey are not generating revenues like they are expected to because people are not SPENDING.
the Bush plan called for everybody to borrow and spend, including the GOVT.
the Fair Tax? here's what's going on in Missouri. they are thinking of trying it, wanna see our economy collapse even further? get this "Far Tax" as a federal plan and we'll be third world in less than five years.
'Fair Tax' not all it's advertised to be Thursday, June 11, 2009 | 8:35 a.m. CDT
'Fair Tax' not all it's advertised to be Thursday, June 11, 2009 | 8:35 a.m. CDT BY Jane Whitesides, Glasgow
Saturday there will be a “Fair Tax” rally at the Boone County Fairgrounds. This is being billed as the first "fair tax" rally west of the Mississippi and is designed to build support for replacing the corporate and individual income tax with a sales tax.
This legislation would make our already regressive tax system even more regressive with more low- and middle-income Missourians paying more as a share of their income in taxes than do the wealthy. Under the “Fair Tax,” the only Missourians who wouldn’t pay higher taxes are the wealthiest 5 percent. Anyone in the top 5 percent of the income distribution will see a tax cut on average under HJR 36, and those with an average income of more than $1 million will get an average tax cut of $22,864. The tax would apply to everything you buy (food, rent, prescriptions drugs, property) and to all services (doctor’s visits, babysitting services, nursing home services). Two states with no income tax face serious fiscal deficits. Tennessee’s budget shortfall for 2010 is 9 percent of the general fund budget, $856 million, and Washington State has one has one of the largest projected budget shortfalls in the country, more than $3 billion or 18.5 percent of its general fund budget.
NY and CA just get more press, this mess is nationwide and it's just getting started
Posted by Lockman on :
I don't think the fair tax is designed to work in a State enviroment because the biggest savings to the poor would be in not paying payroll taxes (s.s. and mc). Also the national fair tax gives a break to the first 25,000.00 spent on necessary items.
Posted by raybond on :
posted 10-06-2009 23:46 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What the hell is going on? The most liberal states in the country are in the red from overspending...California and New York and its getting UGLY fast. They are going to disguise the bailout of our taxes going to them by "guaranteed debt"
Is it any surprise that more conservative and business friendly states are doing better?
Then this: ----------------------------------------------------
This crazy California is not a liberal state financialy.
State like Oregon are liberal states Alaska is one of the biggest welfare liberal states in the country.
New Jersaey has the highest median incomes in the country so does Maryland and they are very progressive. Most of california is very conservative with a state government that is almost totally controlled by lobbist especialy the ag.business
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
California isnt a liberal state financially? So spending 25% of Los Angeles County's welfare on illegal aliens is conservative then?
According to new data from the Department of Public Social Services, nearly twenty five percent of Los Angeles County ’s welfare and food stamp benefits goes directly to the children of illegal aliens, at a cost of $36 million a month -- for a projected annual cost of $432 million.
“The total cost for illegal immigrants to County taxpayers far exceeds $1 billion a year – not including the millions of dollars for education,” said Antonovich. “With $220 million for public safety, $400 million for healthcare, and $432 million in welfare allocations, illegal immigration continues to have a devastating impact on Los Angeles County taxpayers.” Illegal immigration continues to have a devastating impact on all of California.
Californias open door and sancuary city policies spread throughout the state is hurting them so bad.
Posted by glassman on :
cash, i lived in the middle of that for five years.
putting illegals on welfare (anywhere) is NOT liberal.
if you follow the MONEY?
you'll find conservative business people behind the project. why? because they get to hire dirt cheap labor subsidized by the state. businesses use illegal labor to drive down the cost of "legal" labor too. no business would survive underpaying people in a strong economy unless those people have no choice but to accept their lot in life. to make their "lot" socially acceptable? we add subsidies like medicaid and welfare. fact is? the largest co's take the most advantage of this. most welfare recipients today HAVE JOBS
this is the shell game that "conservative" leaders have been playing for years.
it's the same here in MS too, but it's different people being subjugated.
liberal politicians usually come out ahead on the votes gained from these policies, but the money is going to "conservatives"
Posted by raybond on :
alifornia is not a liberal state the people that live there never voted to give all the wefare and aid to illgals as a matter of fact they have vote against such every time . It is corporate America that rams the welfare and aid to illgals down everybodies thorat to keep there cheap labor in the state.
As usual right wing idiots are behind every financial problem in the country and they smother it with lies,religion,and the flag.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: cash, i lived in the middle of that for five years.
putting illegals on welfare (anywhere) is NOT liberal.
if you follow the MONEY?
you'll find conservative business people behind the project. why? because they get to hire dirt cheap labor subsidized by the state. businesses use illegal labor to drive down the cost of "legal" labor too. no business would survive underpaying people in a strong economy unless those people have no choice but to accept their lot in life. to make their "lot" socially acceptable? we add subsidies like medicaid and welfare. fact is? the largest co's take the most advantage of this. most welfare recipients today HAVE JOBS
this is the shell game that "conservative" leaders have been playing for years.
it's the same here in MS too, but it's different people being subjugated.
liberal politicians usually come out ahead on the votes gained from these policies, but the money is going to "conservatives"
Oh I am aware of this. That is why Bush didnt do a damn thing for immigration because of all the Texas big rancher/farmers who loved the cheap labor.
What about the other races on welfare in Calfironia though like the blacks? Are they out in huge numbers working on farms like the latinos? Asians?
Posted by glassman on :
they are here. but the farm jobs here are gone, they work at places like walmart (for instance):
In 2007, according to the Census Bureau, 37.3 million people, or 12.5 percent of the population, lived at or below the offi cial poverty level.1 Although the Nation’s poor were primarily children and adults who had not participated in the labor force during the year, 7.5 million were among the “working poor.” This level is slightly higher than the level reported in 2006. The working poor are individuals who spent at least 27 weeks in the labor force (working or looking for work), but whose incomes still fell below the offi cial poverty level. In 2007, the working poor rate—the ratio of the working poor to all individuals in the labor force for at least 27 weeks—was 5.1 percent, unchanged from the rate reported in 2006. (See tables A and 1, and chart 1.)
Black and Hispanic workers continued to be more than twice as likely as their White counterparts to be poor. Asians were least likely to be among the working poor in 2007
Among families with at least one member in the labor force for 27 weeks or more, those families with children under 18 years old were 5 times more likely than those without children to live in poverty. • Women who maintain families were more than twice as likely as their male counterparts to be among the working poor.
Although 71 percent of the working poor were White workers, Black and Hispanic workers continued to be more than twice as likely as their White counterparts to be among the working poor.
quote:Originally posted by raybond: alifornia is not a liberal state the people that live there never voted to give all the wefare and aid to illgals as a matter of fact they have vote against such every time . It is corporate America that rams the welfare and aid to illgals down everybodies thorat to keep there cheap labor in the state.
As usual right wing idiots are behind every financial problem in the country and they smother it with lies,religion,and the flag.
Are you saying "only right wing idiots" own and run corporations?
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: What the hell is going on? The most liberal states in the country are in the red from overspending...California and New York and its getting UGLY fast. They are going to disguise the bailout of our taxes going to them by "guaranteed debt"
Is it any surprise that more conservative and business friendly states are doing better?
Then this:
Supermercado de Walmart Opens
PHOENIX - Walmart is trying to dive deeper into the $90 billion-a-year Hispanic grocery market by opening a new supermarket in west Phoenix today.
The Supermercado de Walmart is one of two stores nationwide that will test the country's appetite for a possible string of Hispanic supermarkets. The giant retailer says its other store that opened in Houston April 29 is far exceeding expectations.
More News »
Phoenix and Houston were chosen for their large, multigenerational Hispanic populations with considerable spending power. Arizona has about 2 million Hispanic consumers.
Walmart has gained considerable knowledge and experience marketing to consumers in Mexico and Latin America and hopes to leverage it to boost sales to U.S. Hispanics, who have an estimated buying power of about $1 trillion a year.
A study of Hispanic buying power by Oklahoma State University found that Hispanics spend a larger portion of their household incomes on food -- $128.50 per week compared with $91 for non-Hispanics
Why am I not surprised you created this thread? You didn't make one about any Wal-mart being built in any town catering to everyone. instead you focused on a Wal-Mart that is focusing on one ethnic group, which by the way is a smart business move considering the buying power of the hispanic population especially pertaining to food buying.
So ole Wise one, tell me why shouldn't Wal Mart cater to the hispanic population of that area? And spare me the illegal immigrant angle because contrary to belief not all hispanics are illegal and there is no law saying they cannot spend U.S. dollars on American goods even if they are illegal but thats not the point. But to let you know 15.1% of the U.S. population are hispanic that are legal or rougly 45 million which is predicted to be about 105 million by the year 2050. And you want Wal Mart to ignore that population that spends in upwards of $1 trillion dollars for now and higher later on because of your Hispanophobia? lol
I'm sure you have heard this before Cowman:
Stop mooing... Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Should we build an asian and african walmart? Why cant walmart being as awesome and so grand as they are just include all varieties in one store. Its pandering.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Quote Machiavelli:
"which by the way is a smart business move considering the buying power of the hispanic population especially pertaining to food buying.'
_________________________________________________
They will find out if it is a smart business move.
But i can't see the difference there than in other cities where complete areas are set up for certain ethnic groups and have been for many generations.
We have many areas here in California, Little Saigon etc. and so do other parts of the country.
That's the way it is, if they don't have enough buyers they fail, pretty simple, unless their bailed out by gov.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Should we build an asian and african walmart? Why cant walmart being as awesome and so grand as they are just include all varieties in one store. Its pandering.
Asian? sure why not? if Walmart thinks the population supports having one in a asian community/Chinatown's.... as for African? I would assume you mean African Americans/Blacks of America... I might be blind but I think they already go to Walmart and buy the foods there which for the most part are the same as what you eat Cowman...
As for including all varieties in one store? Hispanics eat a little different then you.. their diet... and these supermercado's will be built in hispanic communities not a mixed community... is that difficult for you to understand?...
You don't sell asian food in a Walmart located in a hispanic community... and vice versa... and if hispanic products were in a walmart catering to a black/white community, you would just be complaining that the labels are not in english, the food is hispanic etc.. etc.. i would like to think you have more business sense in your mind then cowpies Cowman to know that when you open a store of any kind in a ethnic neighborhood that you cater to what that ethnicity likes...
My guess is you have not spent much time in hispanic, asian or other ethnic communities Cowman.... because if you did you would notice what food products are on the shelves of the local grocery/supermarkets there... i have obviously spent time in both hispanic supermarkets and asian ones for obvious reasons... trust me when i say if i want hispanic food products I don't go to a walmart in a black neighborhood etc.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD:
They will find out if it is a smart business move.
But i can't see the difference there than in other cities where complete areas are set up for certain ethnic groups and have been for many generations.
We have many areas here in California, Little Saigon etc. and so do other parts of the country.
That's the way it is, if they don't have enough buyers they fail, pretty simple, unless their bailed out by gov.
It is a smart business move... and when they say Phoenix and Houston they do not mean just anywhere in those cities but obviously where the hispanic population resides... the hispanic communities...
Hispanics (or ethnics in general) do spend more on food buying then white america... it is just part of their cultures... food... life centers around food in those cultures more so then the general american population...
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Quote Machiavelli:
"It is a smart business move... and when they say Phoenix and Houston they do not mean just anywhere in those cities but obviously where the hispanic population resides... the hispanic communities..."
_________________________________________________
Most likely is since they do a lot of research before making there decisions.
But with changing demographics due to the economy i like to leave some space, because you never know.
We have been reminded in the last year that nothing is for sure in business ...GM etc.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by Machiavelli:
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD:
They will find out if it is a smart business move.
But i can't see the difference there than in other cities where complete areas are set up for certain ethnic groups and have been for many generations.
We have many areas here in California, Little Saigon etc. and so do other parts of the country.
That's the way it is, if they don't have enough buyers they fail, pretty simple, unless their bailed out by gov.
It is a smart business move... and when they say Phoenix and Houston they do not mean just anywhere in those cities but obviously where the hispanic population resides... the hispanic communities...
Hispanics (or ethnics in general) do spend more on food buying then white america... it is just part of their cultures... food... life centers around food in those cultures more so then the general american population...
Im just sick of the crap flowing across the border. The drugs and the violence, the human trafficking, the brothels going up all over the border states with kidnapped underage women, its sick and its a damn disease on the country. Guess where its coming? The place we are telling...hey come over here for free healthcare, free education, free everything, dont worry the people who create wealth will pay for it all. Then we got turncoat bastar** who hire them and encourage cheap labor...ugh
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Im just sick of the crap flowing across the border. The drugs and the violence, the human trafficking, the brothels going up all over the border states with kidnapped underage women, its sick and its a damn disease on the country. Guess where its coming? The place we are telling...hey come over here for free healthcare, free education, free everything, dont worry the people who create wealth will pay for it all. Then we got turncoat bastar** who hire them and encourage cheap labor...ugh
And this has to do with the topic of the title you chose for this Thread? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING... opening a Walmart that caters to the hispanic communities of Houston and Phoenix does not create the problems you just mentioned... again it is your OWN HISPANOPHOBIA causing you to rant and rave with absolutely nothing to back it up...
Organized crime is NOT a ethnic problem... it is a HUMAN problem... there is organized crime in all races: white, black, hispanic, asian etc... and guess what? They all participate in the same exact problems you just mentioned.All traffic in guns, drugs, prostitutes, robberies, murders, money laundering etc. And all participate regardless of legal or illegal citizenship status in this country. Read the newspapers of any big city in the U.S. and you will see headlines from time to time of Russian, italian, black, Albanian, asian, Irish, etc. MOBS.... why don't you condemn those? Why don't you condemn Wal mart for selling food to those people in those cities?
I find it funny how your so concerned about what goes from South to North but your not concerned what goes from North to South such as ILLEGAL guns that fuels the violence in Mexico which in turn keeps the cartels in power to continue trafficking drugs, laundered money which also keeps them in power etc. It's a cycle. You can't stop one flow of things (South to North) without also stopping the flow of things the other way also which feeds it (North to South).
But anyways that is not the point. The point is you chose a topic about Wal Mart opening supermarkets in the U.S. catering to an ethnic group and now you somehow tie that to drug trafficking, violence, prostitution,illegal immigration etc.????
Let me yet once again enlighten you my Cow friend. Wal mart sells food to people and that in no way ties into crime. 45 million (15.1% of the population) LEGAL hispanics live here in their own close knit communities for the most part and it would be stupid of Wal Mart not to try to take market share of that ethnic group which is the biggest minority group that by the year 2050 will number more or less to around 100 million. Key word LEGAL hispanics. They currently spend in upwards of $1 TRILLION USD across the nation and about $90 BILLION in the Texas/AZ area. Now I would like to think that you have some business and economic sense to realize the financial potentional to Wal Mart in this case and put your prejudices away to see clearly for once. Because one (Wal Mart supermercardos) has nothing to do with the other (Mexican organized crime) other then perhaps the guns Wal Mart may unwittingly be selling to straw buyers that then smuggle across the border to Mexico but that is not the case with the article you posted because it is a SUPERMARKET of which they do not sell guns.
My ONLY concern with Wal mart opening such SUPER super markets is that it could destroy small businesses in the hispanic communities that already sell food there. Such as small supermarkets, bodegas etc. Wal Mart tends to have that effect whereever they open regardless of what race the community makeup is. That is what you should be concerned with Cowman not your lunatic thinkings that this somehow promotes mexican organized crime. You should be concerned with the destruction of small businesses run by law abiding hispanics that are living the American Dream through hard work just like you want them to through legal means of citizenship/residency and running food businesses (or any legal business) to support themselves and their families and not be on welfare and such. Do you get it now? If not then :
STOP MOOING...
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD:
Most likely is since they do a lot of research before making there decisions.
But with changing demographics due to the economy i like to leave some space, because you never know.
We have been reminded in the last year that nothing is for sure in business ...GM etc.
Nothing is absolute in business but the biggest or 2nd biggest ethnic group that spends up to $1 trillion dollars per year in this country that will be a population of over 100 million in the next 40 years and spend more on food then on anything else in good or bad times sure is a good risk to take by the biggest retailer in the world don't you think?
Food is a necessity, cars (at least to this ethnic group) really isn't.
Posted by glassman on :
Hispanics (or ethnics in general) do spend more on food buying then white america... it is just part of their cultures... food... life centers around food in those cultures more so then the general american population...
what on earth are you talking about?
Hispanics buy more food than anybody else? that's hilarious. you live in NYC and you think you know America? i'm sorry Mach but i know you cannot prove that statement.
I find it funny how your so concerned about what goes from South to North but your not concerned what goes from North to South such as ILLEGAL guns that fuels the violence in Mexico
guns do not fuel violence.
violent people get guns and commit crimes with them. that's what fuels violence, violent people.
the fact that Mexico cannot deal with it's violence problems shows how poorly they manage their own country and blaming it on Americans is excuse making.
Mexico is #8 in murder rates at .13 per 1000 people and the US is #24 at .04 per 1000 people. the US has less than 1/4 the murder rate of Mexico yet we have LEGAL guns here. somehwere between 1/4 and 1/2 of all Americans own guns yet we have a lower murder rate.
if that doesn't prove to you that guns make individuals safer? nothing ever will...
The Mexican Army is the biggest gun supplier and owner in Mexico. Nobody has yet proven that guns are entering Mexico illegally in large numbers. The fact is that the Mexican Army supplies most of the guns in Mexico, even the ones owned by the "criminals".
people in Mexico are abused by their govt and their "overlords" much more than people are abused here. (i am not saying there is no abuse here..
give it up on the Guns. people come here to live besause we are FREE! we are FREE! because we own and maintain firearms not in spite of them. they come here to be FREE. it's got damn little to do with money either. money and it's availablity to the average people is just a representation of freedom. In Mexico the wealthy refuse to even allow a middle class, and heaven forbid that an average person would be able to defend themselves against the murderous gangs down there.
Organized crime is NOT a ethnic problem.
maybe not, but anybody who has done business in Mexico knows damn well the whole country is one big organised crime.
Posted by Pagan on :
Ya might wanna read this report from the GAO glassy.
Study: U.S. lacks strategy to fight arms smuggling into Mexico Story Highlights Drug violence reportedly has killed more than 2,900 people this year in Mexico
Most of drug cartel weapons seized are smuggled from U.S., report says
U.S. government lacks strategy to combat arms trafficking, study says
Government Accountability Office report will be released at subpanel hearing
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Most of the weapons that Mexican drug cartels use are smuggled from the United States, but the U.S. government lacks a cohesive strategy to combat the arms trafficking, according to a Government Accountability Office report to be released Thursday.
In Mexico last year, drug violence was blamed for the deaths of 78 soldiers and more than 6,000 others. This year, the drug violence has claimed more than 2,900 lives, according to the newspaper El Universal.
Much of the violence has affected the U.S.-Mexico border.
Over the last five years, about 87 percent of firearms seized and traced by Mexican authorities were purchased in the United States, a draft of the report says. Most of the weapons were acquired at gun shops and shows in border states, according to the report. Many of these are high-caliber and high-power weapons, including AK-47s and AR-15 semiautomatic rifles.
The two agencies tasked with curbing arms smuggling to Mexico, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and Department of Homeland Security, "do not effectively coordinate their efforts, in part because the agencies lack clear roles and responsibilities," according to the draft.
In a statement Thursday, W. Larry Ford, ATF assistant director, said the bureau and Immigration and Customs Enforcement "are working to finalize a memorandum of understanding to maximize our joint effectiveness to combat violent crime along the Southwest border."
U.S. agencies also face other obstacles.
Officials told the GAO that some federal firearms laws restrict the collection of information of arms purchases and limit reporting requirements for multiple sales, hindering anti-smuggling efforts.
Of the guns traced back to the United States, about 68 percent were manufactured there and about 19 percent were made in other countries and imported to the U.S. before being smuggled to Mexico.
"The U.S. government lacks a strategy to address arms trafficking to Mexico," the draft of the report says.
The GAO noted that U.S. anti-drug efforts in Mexico do not focus on weapons smuggling, and most of the efforts are aimed at keeping the flow of drugs from coming north, not stopping arms from flowing south.
The report will say that the $1.4 billion Merida Initiative, the biggest drug enforcement aid package the United States has given Mexico, does not provide dedicated funding to stop weapons smuggling.
Most of the weapons cross into Mexico in vehicles crossing international bridges along the border, where southbound inspections by customs officials are rare.
Customs and Border Protection, which oversees the international crossings, reported that in the 2008 fiscal year, a total of 70 weapons were seized in southbound inspections.
In the same time period, Mexican authorities captured 30,000 weapons, 7,200 of which were submitted to the ATF for tracing, the report says. The gap between seizures and traces is a statistic that gun-rights groups say puts in question whether the majority of illegal guns in Mexico really come from the United States.
The report will be released Thursday afternoon at a hearing on arms trafficking held by the House Foreign Affairs Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere.
All AboutMexico • U.S. Customs and Border Protection
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
"Most of drug cartel weapons seized are smuggled from U.S., report says"
What report was that I wonder and who put it together. I really doubt they are getting fully automatic weapons from the US like they want everyone to believe. The only guns that are traceable are from the US. The rest they have no clue. So much comes up from Columbia to Mexico to fuel the narco gangs when it comes to weapons.
I bet they will say we supply columbia with weapons, and north korea next. Give me a break. Anyone with common sense knows there is an underground market and its a lot CHEAPER to buy guns on black market from third world countries than to pay premium prices in America and then smuggle them INTO Mexico....get the F out of here my goodness.
Posted by Pagan on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: "Most of drug cartel weapons seized are smuggled from U.S., report says"
What report was that I wonder and who put it together. I really doubt they are getting fully automatic weapons from the US like they want everyone to believe. The only guns that are traceable are from the US. The rest they have no clue. So much comes up from Columbia to Mexico to fuel the narco gangs when it comes to weapons.
I bet they will say we supply columbia with weapons, and north korea next. Give me a break. Anyone with common sense knows there is an underground market and its a lot CHEAPER to buy guns on black market from third world countries than to pay premium prices in America and then smuggle them INTO Mexico....get the F out of here my goodness.
If you actually read the article instead of spouting off ignorantly as usual, you'd see the report came from the GAO. And I wasn't talking about full auto weapons, another error on your part to state that.
PS: I won't be getting the "F" outta here...well....at at least not until you go "F" yourself first. Lemme know when that happens Mooboy.
Posted by Lockman on :
OHHHHHHHHHH! as jordanreed says; pull up a seat and get the popcorn, we got us a rumble. lol
Posted by glassman on :
once again this proves that WE have a viable tracking and responsibility system which other countries do not have.
alot of moderate people like fact check org, i like fact check dot org too here's what they say:
Counting Mexico's Guns April 17, 2009 Updated: April 22, 2009 President Obama says 90 percent of Mexico's recovered crime guns come from the U.S. That's not what the statistics show. Summary There's no dispute that thousands of handguns, military-style rifles and other firearms are purchased in the U.S. and end up in the hands of Mexican criminals each year. It's relatively easy to buy such guns legally in Texas and other border states and to smuggle them across.
But is it true, as President Obama said, that "[m]ore than 90 percent of the guns recovered in Mexico come from the United States?" Government statistics don’t actually support that claim.
The figure represents only the percentage of crime guns that have been submitted by Mexican officials and traced by U.S. officials. We can find no hard data on the total number of guns actually "recovered in Mexico," but U.S. and Mexican officials both say that Mexico recovers more guns than it submits for tracing. Therefore, the percentage of guns "recovered" that are traced to U.S. sources necessarily is less than 90 percent. Where do the others come from? U.S. officials can’t say.
Fox News has put the percentage of guns that have been traced to U.S. sources at only 17 percent, but we find that to be based on a mistaken assumption that throws its figure way off. We can't offer a precise calculation because we know of no hard information on the total number of guns Mexican officials have recovered. But if a rough figure given by Mexico's attorney general is accurate, then the actual percentage of all Mexican crime guns that have been traced to U.S. sources is more than double what Fox News has reported.
Correction, April 22: We originally concluded that Obama’s 90 percent figure was “not true” and based on a “badly biased” sample of recovered guns. We are retracting both those characterizations, and we apologize to our readers for this error. We have rewritten the article throughout to correct this.
Our error was to think we had confirmed that Mexican officials submit for tracing only those guns they believe likely to have come from the U.S. Law enforcement officials say they don't know if that's the case.
now, lemme ask you a serious question, do your really beleive the Mexican Govt is going to take repsonsibiltiy for teh guns they are selling?
cauz they are
cuz i know for fact that inMexico there are lots of full auot weapons, i've seen asn heard them.
they are NOT buying the full auto stuff here, they are buying 50 cal sniper rifles and handguns.
the GAO report is a blatant attempt to skew the figures to make a move toward more firearm regulations here.
Mexico has a severe kidnapping problem and truck hijacking problem too. is that our fault?
even tho guns are basically illegal in Mexico? they are everywhere i know, i've seen 'em, and the real problem is that life is dirt cheap there
go down to a non-tourist city for New Years and listen you'll be amazed at how many full auot weapons there are being shot off to celebrate the new year Posted by glassman on :
In Death by Government (Transaction, 1994), R.J. Rummel estimates that between 1900 and 1920, various Mexican governments killed over 1.4 million people, through slave labor, executions, and other means, not including the hundreds of thousands more who died at the hands of rebels or from other war-related causes.
A new constitution, adopted in 1917, at last recognized a right to arms. Article 10 of the Mexican Constitution, as amended, states:
“The inhabitants of the United Mexican States have the right to possess arms in their homes for their security and legitimate defense with the exception of those prohibited by federal law and of those reserved for the exclusive use of the Army, Navy, Air Force, and National Guard. Federal law shall determine the cases, conditions and place in which the inhabitants may be authorized to bear arms.”
In 1994, Mexico had a total homicide rate of 17.6 per 100,000 population. Of these homicides, 9.9 were by firearm, and 7.7 by other means. Mexican law enforcement against violent crime is widely regarded as ineffectual and dishonest.
Posted by glassman on :
Most of the weapons cross into Mexico in vehicles crossing international bridges along the border, where southbound inspections by customs officials are rare.
this is hilarious. mexico complains about US? i've been across the border well over a hundred times. the only times i've been searched is coming back, and that was rare.
as a matter of fact? i've barely slowed down to nod to the Federales on the way in most times...
Posted by T e x on :
I've been searched going in, where I didn't expect to be...Presidio/Ojinaga. It was, um... inconvenient.
But lottsa stuff used to go South through there--prolly still does.
Posted by glassman on :
According to the GAO report, a total of 29,824 firearms were seized in Mexico in 2008. That number comes from CENAPI, the Spanish acronym for Mexico’s Planning, Analysis and Information Center for Combating Crime, GAO said. We had great difficulty pinning down the number of guns recovered, and eventually relied on an account citing Mexico’s attorney general, who reportedly said that nearly 30,000 guns had been recovered over the years 2007 and 2008 — a two-year period. The new data mean that Mexican officials are submitting an even smaller percentage of the firearms they seize for tracing by ATF than we had previously believed.
"Close to 6,000 were successfully traced -- and of those, 90 percent -- 5,114 to be exact, according to testimony in Congress by William Hoover -- were found to have come from the U.S."
see how badly the numbers are being massaged?
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by T e x: I've been searched going in, where I didn't expect to be...Presidio/Ojinaga. It was, um... inconvenient.
But lottsa stuff used to go South through there--prolly still does.
yeah Tex, but i'm confident you know what i'm saying about the law enforcement situation in Mexico.
i got shaken down plenty of times down there by the cops... never once robbed by civilians. heck i like Mexico, but this complaining about US being the cause of their problems is nonesense.
we all cause problems with each other to some degree or another.
i am searching for a list of th eguns traced by make and model now.. i bet when i find them they are almost all cheapo pistols and specialty high power sniper rifles. not full auto assault weapons.
why would they pay US prices for full auto when they can get 'em much cheaper in eastern europe and Russia?
the price is ten times her what it is over htere.
Posted by glassman on :
A comprehensive analysis of firearms trace data over the past three years indicates that Texas, Arizona and California are the three largest source States, respectively, for firearms illegally trafficked to Mexico. In FY 2008 alone, 2,514 firearms seized in Mexico were traced to sources in Texas, Arizona and California. The remaining 47 States accounted for 1,053 traces in FY 2007.
that's not very many weapons considering how many there are:
Until recently drug traffickers’ “weapon of choice” had been .38 caliber handguns. However, they now have developed a preference for more powerful weapons, such as the .233 semi-automatic rifle, the AK-47 variant rifle, 5.57 caliber pistols, and .50 caliber rifles; ATF has seized each of these types of weapons as those weapons en route to Mexico.
and this is where the BS starts:
none of those are assault rifles.
they merely appear to look like them...
note that this case was broken by a federal licensed gun dealer,i'd like to see more details on wher the guns actually came from:
While on the subject of FFLs, I would like to note that the vast majority of gun dealers are in compliance with firearms regulations and are genuinely interested in keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. For example, in 2007, a tip from an FFL involving a firearms trafficker purchasing two .50 caliber rifles, as well as other firearms recovered in Mexico, prompted an undercover ATF operation. That investigation led to the arrest of the leader and his two coconspirators for attempting to purchase several handguns and a fully automatic M-60 machine gun. In September 2008, the leader was sentenced to 30 months incarceration and 84 months of supervised release.
We can report that our efforts are paying off. Mexico has increased the number of firearms it has submitted for tracing from 3,312 in FY 2007, to 7,743 in FY 2008, and over 7,500 to date this fiscal year.
As noted, ATF’s Project Gunrunner has experienced numerous successes, referring for prosecution 795 cases since October 1st, 2003, involving 1,685 defendants, including 1,035 defendants who trafficked an estimated 12,835 guns.
an average of a dozen guns per smuggler? those are hardly big time criminals...
Posted by glassman on :
this is weird.
when trying to discover how many guns are manufactured and sol din the US to get a comparison on how many are going to Mexico? i get a access denied message from Treasury
the figure is somewhere around 3 to 4 million... so a couple thousand going to Mexico is hardly worth getting your panties in a buch over.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
See, anti gun spin doctors dont like to talk about the globa gun trafficking and illegal arms trade. Its like it doesnt exist with them. They must do whatever it takes to make guns look bad and if its an easy story then they go after it. Sure, blame violence in Mexico and drug cartels on guns in America to scare people into hating guns. What a joke.
The Obama administration will leak stuff out like this as if it is 100% no other variables involved but American guns.
Im sure nobody takes into consideration the CORRUPTION of Mexican police and government to acquire military grade weapons. Again...nobody wants to focus on what the biggest issue is.
Posted by T e x on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman:
quote:Originally posted by T e x: I've been searched going in, where I didn't expect to be...Presidio/Ojinaga. It was, um... inconvenient.
But lottsa stuff used to go South through there--prolly still does.
yeah Tex, but i'm confident you know what i'm saying about the law enforcement situation in Mexico.
i got shaken down plenty of times down there by the cops... never once robbed by civilians. heck i like Mexico, but this complaining about US being the cause of their problems is nonesense.
we all cause problems with each other to some degree or another.
i am searching for a list of th eguns traced by make and model now.. i bet when i find them they are almost all cheapo pistols and specialty high power sniper rifles. not full auto assault weapons.
why would they pay US prices for full auto when they can get 'em much cheaper in eastern europe and Russia?
the price is ten times her what it is over htere.
guns?
I imagine they take whatever is available, from where/when ever. Narcotrafficantes can afford whatever, too.
But a lot of stuff that goes South is stolen vehicles, heavy equipment, and trailers.
In Oaxaca, one time, I hired a fishing guide. At the end of the day, he asked me to bring fishing equipment the next time I came down: He had two rods, three reels, and three of four lures. Waiting for me to come back was better/cheaper than any alternative he had...
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Next week Obama admin is working on "immigration reform" whatever that means.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman:
what on earth are you talking about?
Hispanics buy more food than anybody else? that's hilarious. you live in NYC and you think you know America? i'm sorry Mach but i know you cannot prove that statement.
I suggest you go reread what Cow originally posted from the article he quoted or better yet I will for you:
"A study of Hispanic buying power by Oklahoma State University found that Hispanics spend a larger portion of their household incomes on food -- $128.50 per week compared with $91 for non-Hispanics"
And being hispanic I would say i would know more then you about the culture as well as American culture since I am in essence from both worlds and do not pretend to know the culture because my friends are hispanic or because i research stuff on the internet and post it here.
quote:guns do not fuel violence.
violent people get guns and commit crimes with them. that's what fuels violence, violent people.
No guns don't fuel it. My bad. Profits from drug trafficking fuel it. The need to keep in business and power.
But:
Money + Guns = Power and the ability to stay in business.
quote:the fact that Mexico cannot deal with it's violence problems shows how poorly they manage their own country and blaming it on Americans is excuse making.
Now that's a stupid statement no offense. That is like saying the U.S. cannot deal with it's drug problem and blaming Colombia, Mexico, Afghanistan etc. is excuse making. It is all our problems. All countries not one or the other.
quote:Mexico is #8 in murder rates at .13 per 1000 people and the US is #24 at .04 per 1000 people. the US has less than 1/4 the murder rate of Mexico yet we have LEGAL guns here. somehwere between 1/4 and 1/2 of all Americans own guns yet we have a lower murder rate.
if that doesn't prove to you that guns make individuals safer? nothing ever will...
The Cartels are a little above your average petty criminal who breaks into your home. It's gotten out of control in Mexico and legal gun ownership by Mexicans citizens will not lower their murder rate by cartels.
And this is not about gun control to their citizens but about ILLEGAL guns crossing into their border. Their citizens cannot LEGALLY buy guns on the U.S. side correct me if I am wrong? So therefor someone is buying them to supply the Cartels and that someone are straw buyers hired by cartels or gun trafficking organizations who buy them here for distribution in Mexico.
I find it funny how you always advocate that our gun laws are adequate and only need to be enforced. I have just said the same in relation ONLY to this situation and I am ONLY saying that we should be cracking down more on ILLEGAL gun trafficking into Mexico on our side of the border and I'm NOT even talking about gun control. Enforcing our current laws has always been your thing, has it not Glass? So why aren't you advocating it now.
quote:The Mexican Army is the biggest gun supplier and owner in Mexico. Nobody has yet proven that guns are entering Mexico illegally in large numbers. The fact is that the Mexican Army supplies most of the guns in Mexico, even the ones owned by the "criminals".
Care to prove any of this or is it just your theory?. 90% of the guns confiscated in Mexico by the authorities from the Cartels are American Made and most have been traced back to shops here and proven to be bought by straw buyers or illegal sold by the shops themselves. No proof of Mexican Army involvement exists and if there is any it is very minimal.
quote:give it up on the Guns. people come here to live besause we are FREE! we are FREE! because we own and maintain firearms not in spite of them. they come here to be FREE. it's got damn little to do with money either. money and it's availablity to the average people is just a representation of freedom. In Mexico the wealthy refuse to even allow a middle class, and heaven forbid that an average person would be able to defend themselves against the murderous gangs down there.
And what does this have to do with the price of milk? The topic of the thread was/is Wal-Mart opening hispanic themed supermarkets in HISPANIC neighborhoods/communities. Has nothing to do with illegal immigration,drug trafficking, prostitution, murder etc.
Cow seems to think Wal Mart shouldn't open them to cater to a big market that will be the biggest minority group in the near future if they aren't already. I agree with not letting Wal Mart doing so but only because it will destroy local small businesses that already do sell hispanic ethnic food to those communities and not because it's connected to any organised crime or because I think we should destroy their culture with a misconceived notion that their culture is not American therefor we should shove down their throats what they should eat and is "AMERICAN".
quote:Organized crime is NOT a ethnic problem.
maybe not, but anybody who has done business in Mexico knows damn well the whole country is one big organised crime.
Every country is in that regards. Every country has some level of corruption and business can be dirty in any of them including ours. I hope you don't think our country is so "clean" as well? lol
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by Pagan: If you actually read the article instead of spouting off ignorantly as usual, you'd see the report came from the GAO. And I wasn't talking about full auto weapons, another error on your part to state that.
PS: I won't be getting the "F" outta here...well....at at least not until you go "F" yourself first. Lemme know when that happens Mooboy.
Pag, yah sometimes I think he ate too much grass and all that spews out is nothing but cow pies...
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: i am searching for a list of th eguns traced by make and model now.. i bet when i find them they are almost all cheapo pistols and specialty high power sniper rifles. not full auto assault weapons.
why would they pay US prices for full auto when they can get 'em much cheaper in eastern europe and Russia?
the price is ten times her what it is over htere.
Logic for $100 Alex... lol
Who cares if they are auto or not? That isn't the issue at all... it's all types of guns in general going south ILLEGALLY...
As for why pay U.S. prices rather then Eastern European/Russian? Some things come to mind like preference to what models they like best, they can afford anything, easier to smuggle when the supply country is right next to you rather then across the ocean (especially from expert smugglers), quality etc. You get what you pay for. Buy cheap guns you get unreliable product, true or not? I wouldn't want a gun jamming on me etc. when someone else is pointing a gun at me or shooting at me.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: Mexico has a severe kidnapping problem and truck hijacking problem too. is that our fault?
Our fault is not enforcing our laws more strongly on our side of the border to stop illegal arms trafficking. Even one of your posts says that the ATF and Dept. Of Homeland Security do not coordinate with each other to tackle the increasing arms trafficking problem.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: As noted, ATF’s Project Gunrunner has experienced numerous successes, referring for prosecution 795 cases since October 1st, 2003, involving 1,685 defendants, including 1,035 defendants who trafficked an estimated 12,835 guns.
an average of a dozen guns per smuggler? those are hardly big time criminals...
What you fail to mention is that those #'s are just the ones who were caught. Much like drugs, thousands of kilos are confiscated on our side of the border and such but we know that a whole LOT more gets through successfully.... so then we never have accurate #'s without catching all or almost all that tries to get through... same with illegal arms going across the border...
Posted by glassman on :
it still supports my point that we in America have the best tracking system and the fairest gun laws in the world. There are always criminals to be caught and prosecuted.
the Mexicans are submitting, and we are tracing. the %age of guns being smuggled is not very high, hence my assertion that it is not Americas fault that Mexicans have a severe violence problem.
yes we have a high desire for drugs, we can afford them. In my travels thru other parts of the world i was offered drugs everywhere i went.
The major exception to that was Korea, i was never offered drugs there, but lots of booze was drunk. In Japan? The drug laws are much stiffer there and i was still offered them. Hard drugs too, the Japanese were into high grade meth long before it became big in the US.
I don't think drugs should be dealt with in the way they are. I don't know how we could decriminalize the harder drugs, but pot should not be illegal. I don't smoke it, mostly cuz i have too much to lose over (even) a minor legal incident. Spending as much time with university people as i have in my life? i have seen much more "upper class" drug (ab)use of all kinds than i have seen "street" drug (ab)use... Drug (ab)use affects all levels of our socitey. Of course i have seen more people do more stupid stuff on alcohol than anything else.
I do not blame Mexicans for wanting to make money, take advantage of the drug business or even for wanitn gto own guns that are illegal there. What i fault is blaming other people for their problems. They are in denial abou their own attitudes toward the value of human life. I have been in much worse places than Mexico tho. And i seriously fault Hillary and Obama for going along with them on these LIES.
I still say that Mexican people hurt their own country by leaving to come here instead of staying there to make things better. Mexican people in America have come here to "live a better life". That better life is available to them in their own country if they just MAKE it so. That's how it happened here. Gun ownership has been and will continue to be an integral part of the freedoms that allows Americans to flourish. America is not over, this past 8 years did not destroy US, and we will come back
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by Machiavelli:
quote:Originally posted by glassman: Mexico has a severe kidnapping problem and truck hijacking problem too. is that our fault?
Our fault is not enforcing our laws more strongly on our side of the border to stop illegal arms trafficking. Even one of your posts says that the ATF and Dept. Of Homeland Security do not coordinate with each other to tackle the increasing arms trafficking problem.
and Mexico? what do they do at the border? i've been waved thru over a hundred times. i've seen dozens of cars pulled over on the way back every time i came back thru at any large crossing tho.
face it, Mexico has a set of problems that are their own. It's not our fault that their govt is the way it is.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: Gun ownership has been and will continue to be an integral part of the freedoms that allows Americans to flourish.
I still think you do not get it... it's not about putting blame on anyone nor it's not about taking gun ownership away in the U.S. nor in Mexico from legal owners.. it's not about gun control period. It's about not contributing to the problem by ignoring that our own laws of illegal arms trafficking are not being strongly enforced and were letting illegal guns cross the border adding more to the violence down there. When we do nothing about it or very little about it then we are just to blame as anyone else in this problem. Our laws about gun buying/arms trafficking are being broken and you Glass as a U.S. citizen should be outraged and be advocating that more should be done, not in new laws but enforcing current laws.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: and Mexico? what do they do at the border? i've been waved thru over a hundred times. i've seen dozens of cars pulled over on the way back every time i came back thru at any large crossing tho.
face it, Mexico has a set of problems that are their own. It's not our fault that their govt is the way it is.
Most guns are not imo smuggled through "official" border crossings. You forget these are Cartels that are expert smugglers and they do not just smuggle through official crossings.
I read a interesting book awhile back that I think you should read. It's:
Drug Lord: The Life & Death of a Mexican Kingpin by Terrence Poppa
It's about the life of Pablo Acosta and such and how things work down there in his days which i believe were the 80's. Anyways thats not the point, point is the book describes their smuggling methods through unofficial border crossings for both guns and drugs. Read it, if for anything the book will entertain you if you like true crime genre instead of reading it for research.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
But anyways I still haven't seen you or others really talk about the original title of this thread. Which is why shouldn't Wal mart open Hispanic themed supermarkets in Hispanic communities in the Southwest? It's a large market that is mainly untapped by big corporations.
Posted by glassman on :
So therefor someone is buying them to supply the Cartels and that someone are straw buyers hired by cartels or gun trafficking organizations who buy them here for distribution in Mexico.
how many? the numbers, as i said, are not provable, and are being manipulated to sound much worse than they are
Care to prove any of this or is it just your theory?. 90% of the guns confiscated in Mexico by the authorities from the Cartels are American Made and most have been traced back to shops here and proven to be bought by straw buyers or illegal sold by the shops themselves. No proof of Mexican Army involvement exists and if there is any it is very minimal.
i did prove it.
less than 5000 US bought guns per year have been found to be in mexico.
i posted the figures in this thread.
furthermore? that 90% is a lie.
the truth is that less than 1/3 of the guns confiscated in Mexico are even submitted for tracing, and of those? 90% have been found to be from here. did it eve occur to anyone that they sub,mit the American made guns to US because they are American made with Made in USA stamped right on them? and they have serial numbers? Did you know that many foregin maufactures purposely do NOT even put serial numbers on them??
there were at least 30,000 guns confiscated in Mexico in 2008. some reports are as high 60,000
Mexico has increased the number of firearms it has submitted for tracing from 3,312 in FY 2007, to 7,743 in FY 2008, and over 7,500 to date this fiscal year.
as for the Mexican Army? until just the last couple of years they were in almost total control of the smuggling in Mexico. the new Presidente has been trying to change SOMETHING and that's why there is a war. I personally am very skeptical that his motives are "pure"; i bet that the recent surge in violence has more to do with new Presidente trying to change who the players are more than anything else.
the Chinese supply Mexico with the AK's we know that. those are the real full auto assault guns that are getting into Mexico.
as for "professional smugglers" they are going to do their trade no matter how much you punish the "little guys" for their behaviour.
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by Machiavelli: But anyways I still haven't seen you or others really talk about the original title of this thread. Which is why shouldn't Wal mart open Hispanic themed supermarkets in Hispanic communities in the Southwest? It's a large market that is mainly untapped by big corporations.
if they make money? the y make money.. if they don't? they don't.
i like a good Chili Relleno....
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: how many? the numbers, as i said, are not provable, and are being manipulated to sound much worse than they are
I don't think they are manipulated at all. Maybe not totally accurate but definetly not far off.
quote:i did prove it.
less than 5000 US bought guns per year have been found to be in mexico.
i posted the figures in this thread.
furthermore? that 90% is a lie.
I don't think the 90% or 9 out of 10 guns confiscated are U.S. made is a lie. You are a gun expert and you do not need a serial number to see what is U.S. made and what is not when the guns are televised after a raid.
As for the less then 5000 figure you just gave. That is totally not accurate. If hypothetically 20,000 guns are bought and smuggled in Mexico but only 5000 are confiscated in raids does that mean only 5000 were bought and nothing else? Of course not. We cannot know the true #'s because we do not know how many crossed the border. How many guns are sold along the southwest in "legal" transcations? Thousands upon thousands? How do we know how many are legitimate buys and how many are straw buys? We don't. Not until they are caught and confiscated in Mexico or here do we have any indication what #'s were talking about and 5,000 is laugable.
It's like saying that 100,000 Kilos of Coke are smuggled into the U.S. but only about 5 or 10,000 are confiscated so there musn't anymore then 5/10k or not much more. We can't know the real #'s of kilos ever. Much like job loss reports monthly. We know those numbers are not accurate and that the true #'s are probably higher.
quote:the truth is that less than 1/3 of the guns confiscated in Mexico are even submitted for tracing, and of those? 90% have been found to be from here. did it eve occur to anyone that they sub,mit the American made guns to US because they are American made with Made in USA stamped right on them? and they have serial numbers? Did you know that many foregin maufactures purposely do NOT even put serial numbers on them??
Unless foreign countries are making fake American made guns I would have to say the guns confiscated are the real deal. If not then we would of been aware of fake American guns being made in China, Russia, Eastern Europe etc. wouldn't you say?
quote:as for the Mexican Army? until just the last couple of years they were in almost total control of the smuggling in Mexico. the new Presidente has been trying to change SOMETHING and that's why there is a war. I personally am very skeptical that his motives are "pure"; i bet that the recent surge in violence has more to do with new Presidente trying to change who the players are more than anything else.
The Mexican Army aren't really in the business of smuggling nor directing it. They are in the business of taking bribes to look the other way. Are there individuals in the Army who are actively involved in smuggling? Most likely but that does not mean the Army as a whole are. It's like saying because 3 or 4 NYPD cops are involved in corruption and drug dealing then the whole Dept is considered involved. That just aint so. But anyways read the book I recommended. It explains the Army's role in drug trafficking more accurately.
quote:the Chinese supply Mexico with the AK's we know that. those are the real full auto assault guns that are getting into Mexico.
I never said foreign guns do not go into Mexico. Only that American made ones are more preferred and are the majority.
quote:as for "professional smugglers" they are going to do their trade no matter how much you punish the "little guys" for their behaviour.
Yes, and drunk drivers are going to drive drunk no matter what. Does that mean we shouldn't enforce drunk driving laws because they will do it anyway and it seems hopeless?
Plus the little guys should severly punished so it discourages other little guys from doing it as well. That is a solution to a problem. Not perfect but might reduce things do to consequences.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman:
quote:Originally posted by Machiavelli: But anyways I still haven't seen you or others really talk about the original title of this thread. Which is why shouldn't Wal mart open Hispanic themed supermarkets in Hispanic communities in the Southwest? It's a large market that is mainly untapped by big corporations.
if they make money? the y make money.. if they don't? they don't.
i like a good Chili Relleno....
Then you agree there is nothing wrong with Wal Mart entering the local hispanic market. Because Cowman seems to think it is wrong because it's only hispanic products and that Wal Mart shouldn't cater to any ethnic group and should sell what he considers to be "American" food to them even though that is not their diet/culture.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
"A study of Hispanic buying power by Oklahoma State University found that Hispanics spend a larger portion of their household incomes on food -- $128.50 per week compared with $91 for non-Hispanics"
Quote Machiavelli:
And being hispanic I would say i would know more then you about the culture as well as American culture since I am in essence from both worlds and do not pretend to know the culture because my friends are hispanic or because i research stuff on the internet and post it here.
_________________________________________________
What does that have to do with anything.
Because i am a mixture of cultures does that make me an expert on all of them... i hope not
You seem to use that theory anytime you get your back to the wall.
There are lots of different parts to culture and they vary from area to area, state to state and country to country.
It does not matter what culture.
That top statement is deceiving(larger portion)
My guess is:
1. They eat at home more.
2. They incomes are less overall, so they spend a higher portion of their income on food.
3.Does not mean they spend more on food than non hispanics. (Per Person)
_________________________________________________
Quote Machiavelli:
"But anyways I still haven't seen you or others really talk about the original title of this thread. Which is why shouldn't Wal mart open Hispanic themed supermarkets in Hispanic communities in the Southwest? It's a large market that is mainly untapped by big corporations." _________________________________________________
To most there isn't a lot to talk about under this thread.
If a big corportion wants to take a stab at this and it works so be it, if not so be it.
I stay away from Walmart because i do not like their policies and what they appear to represent.
Posted by glassman on :
I don't think the 90% or 9 out of 10 guns confiscated are U.S. made is a lie. You are a gun expert and you do not need a serial number to see what is U.S. made and what is not when the guns are televised after a raid.
you're correct i am something of a gun expert compared to most people. i am not a gun expert compared to Navy Seals or Marine recon tho, and i can tell you that it is illegal to manufacture a gun in the US or import one without a serial number since 1968, it is also illegal to remove or deface a serial number as a result of that law. however, there are guns made all over th eworld still that do not have them.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
I never said foreign guns do not go into Mexico. Only that American made ones are more preferred and are the majority.
you cannot prove that.
Does that mean we shouldn't enforce drunk driving laws because they will do it anyway and it seems hopeless?
yawn, here we go again. nobody is saying don't enforce the laws. in a free society people are going to break laws and get away with it often.
there is a group of people that are trying to create more laws tho. and you are , by your own admission, one of them.
the fact that we can trace 90% of the guns that Mexico sends US because they beleive them to be form the US is proof that we have a pretty decent system, that needs better enforcement, and the Mexicans need to do more enforcement on their side of the border too (aheckofalot more then we do).
furthermore, you, in so many words, blame the US for Mexico's problems which is sandeces
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman:
you cannot prove that.
Nor can you disprove it. Why is it so difficult to believe that American guns are preferred? They are high quality are they not?
quote:yawn, here we go again. nobody is saying don't enforce the laws. in a free society people are going to break laws and get away with it often.
And no one is advocating enforcing them strongly neither including you.
quote:there is a group of people that are trying to create more laws tho. and you are , by your own admission, one of them.
Yes i am one of them but I haven't said any such thing pertaining to the case of Mexico have i?
quote:the fact that we can trace 90% of the guns that Mexico sends US because they beleive them to be form the US is proof that we have a pretty decent system, that needs better enforcement, and the Mexicans need to do more enforcement on their side of the border too (aheckofalot more then we do).
Did i say we can't trace guns? Nope. I also never said that Mexico doesn't need to do more enforcement on their side neither. That goes without saying but that doesn't excuse the lack of enforcement here before it crosses the border.
quote:furthermore, you, in so many words, blame the US for Mexico's problems which is sandeces
I don't blame Mexico's problems on the U.S. but i do blame it for adding to their problems.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: What does that have to do with anything.
Because i am a mixture of cultures does that make me an expert on all of them... i hope not
You seem to use that theory anytime you get your back to the wall.
So your saying me being hispanic and growing up hispanic does not make me expert on my own race? lol That a white person would know more about hispanic culture then a hispanic? I grew up in two worlds and that makes my experience a little more unique then most if not all on this board unless they grew up in the same two worlds as me. Going to Mexico on vacation a couple times of year or less does not make you or anyone else know more then a hispanic on their experiences and culture my friend.
quote:That top statement is deceiving(larger portion)
My guess is:
1. They eat at home more.
2. They incomes are less overall, so they spend a higher portion of their income on food.
3.Does not mean they spend more on food than non hispanics. (Per Person)
But they do IWish. Why is that so difficult to understand? Whether it is culture, financial reasons or other reasons does not matter because the bottom line is they do spend more on food then non hispanics whether individually or as a family.
quote:To most there isn't a lot to talk about under this thread.
If a big corportion wants to take a stab at this and it works so be it, if not so be it.
I stay away from Walmart because i do not like their policies and what they appear to represent.
Then explain to me because Cow and everyone else seems to avoid it. What is the purpose of this thread originally? We all know that Wal Mart opening hispanic themed supermarkets in no way has a connection to hispanic crime here or in Mexico. So what is the purpose of this thread based on that article and thread title Mooman created and pasted?
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Quote Machiavelli:
"So your saying me being hispanic and growing up hispanic does not make me expert on my own race? lol That a white person would know more about hispanic culture then a hispanic? I grew up in two worlds and that makes my experience a little more unique then most if not all on this board unless they grew up in the same two worlds as me. Going to Mexico on vacation a couple times of year or less does not make you or anyone else know more then a hispanic on their experiences and culture my friend."
_________________________________________________
We just have different definitions of the word expert, we have went there before also, i think the last was horse racing.
Quote Machiavelli:
"But they do IWish. Why is that so difficult to understand? Whether it is culture, financial reasons or other reasons does not matter because the bottom line is they do spend more on food then non hispanics whether individually or as a family." _________________________________________________
Interesting statement, i am not sure, but i would guess that many other families spend a lot more on food. The hispanics tend to eat at home a lot more, which is a lot less costly in most cases.
The ones i have been around all my life do not eat out as much as other familes in general do. The food they eat is not as costly as is some of the typical other foods eaten, if they follow the mexican food type.
I am also guessing that the targeted group in this article is not a high income group. My thought would be that they are a low to middle income group.
Another factor in in figuring how much each family spends on food would depend on the family size.
My statements are general and by no means do all fall into this category, at least the ones i have known don't.
Quote Machiavelli:
Then explain to me because Cow and everyone else seems to avoid it. What is the purpose of this thread originally? We all know that Wal Mart opening hispanic themed supermarkets in no way has a connection to hispanic crime here or in Mexico. So what is the purpose of this thread based on that article and thread title Mooman created and pasted?
________________________________________________-
What does that have to do with the tea in China?
You have been around here long enough to know that where a thread starts at, may have nothing to do where it goes next. Posted by T e x on :
lol, ain't dat da truth...
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD:
What does that have to do with the tea in China?
You have been around here long enough to know that where a thread starts at, may have nothing to do where it goes next.
Yes I know that but I just want to know Mooman's motivation for this thread originally if not to stir sh*t up about a race with something that has nothing to do with it (Mexico's and our problems along the border). Notice Mooman doesn't answer and avoids answering other then when he said this has to do with prostitution/drugs/violence/guns etc. along the border.
Walmart hispanic supermarkets in the Southwest = Mexico's crime problems
I just want him to admit he is prejudice and this thread at least he is trying to get others to be so also because he knows the Walmart issue has nothing to do with violence.If he believes that then he's delusional.
The only issue with Wal Mart is them destroying local small businesses that already do what they plan to do but won't be able to compete. Period.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Quote Machiavelli:
Yes I know that but I just want to know Mooman's motivation for this thread originally if not to stir sh*t up about a race with something that has nothing to do with it (Mexico's and our problems along the border). Notice Mooman doesn't answer and avoids answering other then when he said this has to do with prostitution/drugs/violence/guns etc. along the border.
Walmart hispanic supermarkets in the Southwest = Mexico's crime problems
I just want him to admit he is prejudice and this thread at least he is trying to get others to be so also because he knows the Walmart issue has nothing to do with violence.If he believes that then he's delusional.
The only issue with Wal Mart is them destroying local small businesses that already do what they plan to do but won't be able to compete. Period.
_________________________________________________
Guess i am a little lost in this one, or maybe not that interested.( Main Topic-Walmart)
I hate to give a chain like Walmart any public exposure that might be positive, because in my opinion they don't deserve any.
We all have a little clouded vision or tunnel vision when it comes to certain topics.
Just hope it does not become so clouded that we can't see through those clouds once in awhile.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by Machiavelli:
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD:
What does that have to do with the tea in China?
You have been around here long enough to know that where a thread starts at, may have nothing to do where it goes next.
Yes I know that but I just want to know Mooman's motivation for this thread originally if not to stir sh*t up about a race with something that has nothing to do with it (Mexico's and our problems along the border). Notice Mooman doesn't answer and avoids answering other then when he said this has to do with prostitution/drugs/violence/guns etc. along the border.
Walmart hispanic supermarkets in the Southwest = Mexico's crime problems
I just want him to admit he is prejudice and this thread at least he is trying to get others to be so also because he knows the Walmart issue has nothing to do with violence.If he believes that then he's delusional.
The only issue with Wal Mart is them destroying local small businesses that already do what they plan to do but won't be able to compete. Period.
No, thats now how it is. That is how you WANT it to be so you can take it to that argument. I never said anything about Walmart having something to do with violence. The thread just went that way with others.
Stop race baiting. All it shows is that you are beating the racism drum over and over and over when that is not what this is about.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: No, thats now how it is. That is how you WANT it to be so you can take it to that argument. I never said anything about Walmart having something to do with violence. The thread just went that way with others.
Stop race baiting. All it shows is that you are beating the racism drum over and over and over when that is not what this is about.
Really Mooman you surprise me sometimes. Never say anything in a public forum you do not want repeated to you.
You made this thread a race issue the minute you put "Mexican Walmarts in Phoenix" in your title as well as when you said this:
"Should we build an asian and african walmart? Why cant walmart being as awesome and so grand as they are just include all varieties in one store. Its pandering."
They can't include all varieties because every ethnic communities or communities in general have different tastes. Walmart would lose $$ if they didn't cater to the ethnicity of the community they open in. Even a businessman such as yourself should know that.
As for Walmart and the issue of Mexico's crime problem it was you who started that little tidbit when you replied to my post when I said Hispanics do spend more money on food then non hispanics (want me to paste the whole post?). This was your reply to me:
"Im just sick of the crap flowing across the border. The drugs and the violence, the human trafficking, the brothels going up all over the border states with kidnapped underage women, its sick and its a damn disease on the country. Guess where its coming? The place we are telling...hey come over here for free healthcare, free education, free everything, dont worry the people who create wealth will pay for it all. Then we got turncoat bastar** who hire them and encourage cheap labor...ugh"
Now remember your words were after i said a simple thing as "Hispanics spend more $$ on food then non hispanics and Walmart should cater to them in their communities". Then you replied to my post and spouted out that nonsense. So yes you did say in essence the Walmart issue had to do with the crime issue.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Quote Machiavelli:
You made this thread a race issue the minute you put "Mexican Walmarts in Phoenix" in your title as well as when you said this.
_________________________________________________
Maybe i am just naive on this subject, but it seems to have something to do with race and maybe that's what CashCowMan is trying to point out.
I look at this "The Supermercado de Walmart" in the article and i am sure their not looking for other races for the majority of their business, any more than Little Saigon is looking for other races to keep their areas running.
Not that others are not welcome to spend money there, they just feel that through their research, their are a million reasons(dollars) to try and appeal to a certain race, which happens all the time. (that can be considered racist)
Maybe it is racist(seems like a strong word in this case) and these businesses use that to their advantage as long as there is enough of the race their appealing to in a small area.
I guess it been going on for so long it just becomes part of our daily life in some areas and businesses can get away with it to some degree.
Of course the same thing is done when businesses appeal to certain income levels, genders etc.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD:
Maybe i am just naive on this subject, but it seems to have something to do with race and maybe that's what CashCowMan is trying to point out.
But remember Cowman said he wasn't making this thread a race thing but yet in his title and first post he did. You can't be both. Making it a race issue and not making it a race isssue and then he brought in the whole Mexican crime issue into it and says that others did.
Opening a hispanic themed supermarket is not racist because eating hispanic food is what they eat. You don't open a indian food supermarket in Little Havana/Florida for example if that is not what that community eats unless you want to lose your shirt with your business investment.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Quote Machiavelli:
But remember Cowman said he wasn't making this thread a race thing but yet in his title and first post he did. You can't be both. Making it a race issue and not making it a race isssue and then he brought in the whole Mexican crime issue into it and says that others did.
Opening a hispanic themed supermarket is not racist because eating hispanic food is what they eat. You don't open a indian food supermarket in Little Havana/Florida for example if that is not what that community eats unless you want to lose your shirt with your business investment.
_________________________________________________
Maybe i am misintrepeting what your saying above, but it appears in the first paragraph you say a themed supermarket is racist when CashCowMoo said it, yet in you're second paragraph you say it is not.
Below is the statement i don't understand as being racist. Maybe you can explain what you mean or why it is racist, so i can better understand where you went with this.
"You made this thread a race issue the minute you put "Mexican Walmarts in Phoenix" in your title as well as when you said this."
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: "You made this thread a race issue the minute you put "Mexican Walmarts in Phoenix" in your title as well as when you said this."
Racist by his words because he's basically saying that there shouldn't be any hispanic (or ethnic in general) supermarkets and really only what is considered "American" or white supermarkets to him...
If you haven't noticed he attacks anything that is hispanic in theme. If it's not the supermarkets then it's labels that have both spanish and english. If it's not that then it's customer service #'s that give you the option for spanish or english etc.
But point being he wants to shove his cultural beliefs on people who are non white or non western imo like the hispanics and iranians/middle easterners for example...
what i get from the title of his thread and first post is he doesn't want hispanics to be able to shop and buy what they like to eat and they should only eat what is considered "american"... so therefor Walmart should not be opening such places unless it's "american" themed...
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by Machiavelli:
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: "You made this thread a race issue the minute you put "Mexican Walmarts in Phoenix" in your title as well as when you said this."
Racist by his words because he's basically saying that there shouldn't be any hispanic (or ethnic in general) supermarkets and really only what is considered "American" or white supermarkets to him...
It just never ends with you does it mach If you haven't noticed he attacks anything that is hispanic in theme. If it's not the supermarkets then it's labels that have both spanish and english. If it's not that then it's customer service #'s that give you the option for spanish or english etc.
But point being he wants to shove his cultural beliefs on people who are non white or non western imo like the hispanics and iranians/middle easterners for example...
what i get from the title of his thread and first post is he doesn't want hispanics to be able to shop and buy what they like to eat and they should only eat what is considered "american"... so therefor Walmart should not be opening such places unless it's "american" themed...
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Quote Machiavelli:
"Racist by his words because he's basically saying that there shouldn't be any hispanic (or ethnic in general) supermarkets and really only what is considered "American" or white supermarkets to him...
If you haven't noticed he attacks anything that is hispanic in theme. If it's not the supermarkets then it's labels that have both spanish and english. If it's not that then it's customer service #'s that give you the option for spanish or english etc.
But point being he wants to shove his cultural beliefs on people who are non white or non western imo like the hispanics and iranians/middle easterners for example...
what i get from the title of his thread and first post is he doesn't want hispanics to be able to shop and buy what they like to eat and they should only eat what is considered "american"... so therefor Walmart should not be opening such places unless it's "american" themed..."
_________________________________________________
I see where you went now.
You just tried to sum up your feelings about where you thought he headed.
I was just trying to see where you drew your conclusion from "Mexican Walmarts in Phoenix"
Seemed like a mute point to me, with all the Mexican, Chinese etc. chains.
As far as shoving cultural beliefs on people, seems like what we try to do that when getting into some wars, religion etc. (US and World)
Or maybe visa-versa with some religions.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: I see where you went now.
You just tried to sum up your feelings about where you thought he headed.
I was just trying to see where you drew your conclusion from "Mexican Walmarts in Phoenix"
Glad you see what i meant... unfortunately and this is just my opinion... unless something affects white america then no one cares about the minorities....
quote:Seemed like a mute point to me, with all the Mexican, Chinese etc. chains.
Exactly and that is why i wanted to know from him why this thread? He still hasn't answered with the exception of "he is sick of all the violence,drug and human trafficking crossing the borders" which we know has nothing to do with Walmarts supermercardos...
He doesn't attack other ethnic groups with their supermarkets though... odd isn't it? So again brings me to the question about this thread. Why? Any answer Mooman?
quote:As far as shoving cultural beliefs on people, seems like what we try to do that when getting into some wars, religion etc. (US and World)
Or maybe visa-versa with some religions.
I totally agree with you 100% and is one reason the U.S. is not liked in other parts of the world.
As for religions, yes that is evident in Islam imo not so much with other religions. Like they say religion is the opiate of the masses.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Quote Machiavelli:
"Glad you see what i meant... unfortunately and this is just my opinion... unless something affects white america then no one cares about the minorities...."
_________________________________________________
Not sure what white america has to do with the point.
Technically speaking white america might be a minority now.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: Quote Machiavelli:
"Glad you see what i meant... unfortunately and this is just my opinion... unless something affects white america then no one cares about the minorities...."
_________________________________________________
Not sure what white america has to do with the point.
Technically speaking white america might be a minority now.
That just lets you know how he approaches his arguments. It's pretty clear.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: That just lets you know how he approaches his arguments. It's pretty clear.
Enlighten us Ole Black/white spot Wiseone... you still haven't answered your purpose as to this thread ... since you said it's not a racial thread (though u use "mexican" in your thread title etc.) and such... you seem to avoid the question... what is your purpose for this thread?
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by Machiavelli:
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: That just lets you know how he approaches his arguments. It's pretty clear.
Enlighten us Ole Black/white spot Wiseone... you still haven't answered your purpose as to this thread ... since you said it's not a racial thread (though u use "mexican" in your thread title etc.) and such... you seem to avoid the question... what is your purpose for this thread?
So, if I say "Mexican" then i'm racist? Typical race card being pulled here. The point of the thread was to raise awareness.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: Not sure what white america has to do with the point.
We'll when I say white america it is a generalization because Mooman's view of what is American and what isn't is obvious by his posts... anything "hispanic or mexican" is not considered American by him so it goes to say that must mean that anything non- ethnic (white) is what he would only want to see... therefor my conclusion since the Mooman won't answer is he does not want Walmart to open hispanic themed or any ethnic themed supermarkets on this side of the border because it's not "American/white". I could be wrong but he's not answering is he?
quote:Technically speaking white america might be a minority now.
Not now but in the future it will or might be... it's predicted that Hispanics will number 100 million or so by 2050... that means legal ones before the Mooman speaks out of his cowpie azz... as for other ethnic groups by that year... i am not sure... though i read that Islam will be large in this country by then... because of low birthrates in non muslims in this country and around the world though I am not sure if that study was accurate or biased...
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: So, if I say "Mexican" then i'm racist? Typical race card being pulled here. The point of the thread was to raise awareness.
Ummm awareness of what exactly Mooman? Please enlighten us... now remember your thread title is about Walmart opening hispanic (not Mexican) supermercardos (means supermarket in case you don't know)... as well as the article you posted... so awareness about what???
Btw in the article you posted Walmart is catering to HISPANIC and not MEXICANS in general... no mention of the word Mexican in the article except to say that Walmart had success in Mexico with supermarkets... so if you are not racist ole wise one.. why put the word Mexican in the thread title and awareness about what???
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by Machiavelli:
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: So, if I say "Mexican" then i'm racist? Typical race card being pulled here. The point of the thread was to raise awareness.
Ummm awareness of what exactly Mooman? Please enlighten us... now remember your thread title is about Walmart opening hispanic (not Mexican) supermercardos (means supermarket in case you don't know)... as well as the article you posted... so awareness about what???
Btw in the article you posted Walmart is catering to HISPANIC and not MEXICANS in general... no mention of the word Mexican in the article except to say that Walmart had success in Mexico with supermarkets... so if you are not racist ole wise one.. why put the word Mexican in the thread title and awareness about what???
How much explaining do you need anyway? The country is changing, things like this are part of it. You can run with it however you like.
Its like when I brought the news about certain places in southern Texas accepting PESOS as payable currency...im sure you see nothing wrong with that either.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Quote Machiavelli:
"Btw in the article you posted Walmart is catering to HISPANIC and not MEXICANS in general... no mention of the word Mexican in the article except to say that Walmart had success in Mexico with supermarkets... so if you are not racist ole wise one.. why put the word Mexican in the thread title and awareness about what???"
_________________________________________________
I could have done the same thing without even thinking about it.
It's seems like the only times i think about friends that i have/had over the years in a ethnic way is when i see or hear of discussions like this.
Then i try and think back if we had any problems that were ethnic in origin.
Not unless arguing about which friend was going to be on each team, and who buys the beer. (when we got older)
We always used our first names when addressing each other, don't think we thought about race, at least i did not when i was younger.
Maybe i was just naive, i am sure i was, that's the nice part about being young sometimes.
Not sure we cared who came from where, there seemed to be so many other things to worry about and have fun with.
Don't get me wrong there were things going on in families of friends, but we stuck together and supported each other as friends should.
Maybe i was lucky not much out of the ordinary in my family.
We either liked each other or we did not, rather simple, not saying that is always the case, because i have seen the other side at times in the service and later.
But again to me the title Mexican /Hispanic would refer to the same thing.
I grew up in Ca. and have always loved Mexican food for as far back as i can remember, it just does not like me much anymore.
A lot of states in the 60's and 70's you could not find a mexican restaurant or mexican food of any type other than chile peppers, you had to make it yourself which happened plenty.
Capitalism's most successful child: big business. Why arent liberals attacking big business wal mart, or big business GE? GE is getting more money in stiumulus and "green" projects than Halliburton got out of Iraq. GE and Obama are so far up eachothers rears im surprised not more people are catching on. Only reason is because GE is not "big bad oil" so they sweeten their image with green projects. They are so green that they import green products from the biggest carbon footprint on earth...CHINA....oh so does walmart! What a surprise.
Always has been a double standard.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
Putting your hoof in your mouth again i see... i'll let one of the others show your errors again...
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Quoting che?
Posted by Machiavelli on :
It's a general quote that can be interpreted to any aspect of life not just politics... but yes I do find the man's life interesting... I don't agree with his methods but I do agree with some of his thoughts... bet you know nothing about him other then what you have been brainwashed to think about him....
Stop mooing
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: How much explaining do you need anyway? The country is changing, things like this are part of it. You can run with it however you like.
still avoiding it i see... and changing? Hate to burst your bubble bud, but hispanic (or ethnic) supermarkets have been around for decades... nothing new... Walmart is just capitalizing on it... this is why they are a big business... they think ahead and not behind like you do...
i have to laugh at your backwards thinking... making it sound like hispanic influences in this country is a bad thing... I wonder if you think the same thing of italians for example with Pizza being very popular in this country as well as Little Italy's and Italian grocers and such... bet you don't because by now Italians are considered "white" unlike in the past around the late 19th and early 20th century...
quote:Its like when I brought the news about certain places in southern Texas accepting PESOS as payable currency...im sure you see nothing wrong with that either.
Wow, your ignorance shows through. And other then Iraq I am guessing you haven't done much traveling.
I'll use Costa Rica for example to educate your little mind. Their local currency is called the Colon. But they do accept Dollars at most businesses down there especially big businesses... this holds true in most if not all latin american countries with the dollar as well as other countries around the world...
So would you like to rethink your statement?
Stop Mooing...
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Mach you are trying to evolve my words more and more. The more I hit at something the more you try to twist it and throw it back at me. You just make the argument more ugly.
As far as Costa Rica? Of course they accept dollars. Are you trying to compare Costa Rica accepting Dollars to my eateries accepting Pesos in Texas? LMAO
ANYWHERE takes dollars like you said. It is a whole different ballgame when people start taking pesos as accepted currency here. So you think its ok to take yen and euro at a mall in Dallas? You must be one of those one world currency fans the way you compare all this.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Quote Machiavelli:
"bet you don't because by now Italians are considered "white" unlike in the past around the late 19th and early 20th century..."
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Actually Machiavelli the Hispanics/Mexicans are considered white also.
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Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Mach you are trying to evolve my words more and more. The more I hit at something the more you try to twist it and throw it back at me. You just make the argument more ugly.
As far as Costa Rica? Of course they accept dollars. Are you trying to compare Costa Rica accepting Dollars to my eateries accepting Pesos in Texas? LMAO
ANYWHERE takes dollars like you said. It is a whole different ballgame when people start taking pesos as accepted currency here. So you think its ok to take yen and euro at a mall in Dallas? You must be one of those one world currency fans the way you compare all this.
That is the point. You don't hit on anything at all or rarely. You really should work for Fox News lol
You asked me if we should accept euros, pesos, yen etc. in Malls , your eateries etc. and the answer is : depends. Depends on the exchange rate of whether the dollar is weak or strong versus the currency being used. But Americans are not every educated on currency exchange so that is asking too much of them. While people in other countries are very educated on the major currency exchange rates. Says something about us doesn't it? Also I don't know about your mall but the local one here which is the largest mall in NY has a currency exchange business inside of it.
Btw the accepting of dollars in Costa Rica at least is done as a courtesy more so then anything else. That is what you get in CR. Alot of courtesy , kindness and customer service towards foreigners unlike here.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD:
Actually Machiavelli the Hispanics/Mexicans are considered white also.
-
Actually no were not. Do not know where you got that from. Spaniards on the other hand are.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Quote Machiavelli:
"Actually no were not. Do not know where you got that from. Spaniards on the other hand are."
_________________________________________________
"Many Americans who are treated as part of minority groups are included in the census category "white." This is true for many Hispanic Americans, 47.9% of whom identified racially as white.
In 2005, Whites made up 76% of the American population.
White Americans (non-Hispanic Whites together with White Hispanics) are projected to remain the majority, though with their percentage decreasing to 73% of the total population by 2050."
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD:
"Many Americans who are treated as part of minority groups are included in the census category "white." This is true for many Hispanic Americans, 47.9% of whom identified racially as white.
In 2005, Whites made up 76% of the American population.
White Americans (non-Hispanic Whites together with White Hispanics) are projected to remain the majority, though with their percentage decreasing to 73% of the total population by 2050."
Oh yes we all know the census is accurate
Tell that to the KKK/White supremacist groups, white cops who target hispanics, Americans in general if they were polled and most important ask the Hispanics such as myself if we consider ourselves white or do we think America treats as white...
I don't think any board member, with the exception of you, thinks of Hispanics as "white"... Minorities are called minorities for a reason and it's not because they are "white"...
anyways as for the population:
The projected Hispanic population of the United States for July 1, 2050 is 102.6 million people, or 24.4% of the nation’s total projected population on that date.[35]
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Quote Machiaveli:
Oh yes we all know the census is accurate
Tell that to the KKK/White supremacist groups, white cops who target hispanics, Americans in general if they were polled and most important ask the Hispanics such as myself if we consider ourselves white or do we think America treats as white...
I don't think any board member, with the exception of you, thinks of Hispanics as "white"... Minorities are called minorities for a reason and it's not because they are "white"...
_________________________________________________
Maybe not all hispanics are like you, i sure know that statement to be true.
What are you talking about this time, Board Member?
I did not know our government was supporting the KKK in a direct way, not sure what they have to do with it?
Have you ever been involved with the census?
Have you ever filled out the Questionaire?
Where do you think the answers came from, who do you think they ask?
One thing has become very obvious, you do not like the word Mexican.
So why don't you like the word?
You have made it real clear that after all this talk that you have a personnal dislike to being refered as being of Mexican decent, why?
Posted by rounder1 on :
There are only 3 races:
Mongaloid Negroid Cauccasion
I say pick one.....I don't even give a **** which one you choose. If you're legal.....welcome to America!
If you're not.....go home.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: Maybe not all hispanics are like you, i sure know that statement to be true.
I think it is safe to say that I have grown up with more hispanics all my life then let's say you or the rest of the forum members? So it is also safe to say that I have heard enough opinions from them about whether they are white or not or considered white by white people (irish, polish, WASP's etc.) or not...
quote:What are you talking about this time, Board Member?
Board member = Forum member... get with the program you knew what I meant..
quote:I did not know our government was supporting the KKK in a direct way, not sure what they have to do with it?
Tell me, if we (hispanics) are white then why are we targeted for violent hate/racial crimes by White supremacists, bigots etc.? If you do not think they do I could give you links to hate crimes across the U.S. targeted at hispanics.
quote:Have you ever been involved with the census?
Have you ever filled out the Questionaire?
Where do you think the answers came from, who do you think they ask?
For lack of choices hispanics will choose "white" on a questionairre if need be but if you ask them personally the majority if not all would say they aren't... The Gov't does not speak for me about my own race... sorry...
quote:One thing has become very obvious, you do not like the word Mexican.
So why don't you like the word?
You have made it real clear that after all this talk that you have a personnal dislike to being refered as being of Mexican decent, why?
If you think I do not like Mexicans you are sadly mistaken. I am quite fond of Mexicans, especially of the female persuasion. I am in lust with Salma Hayek (she's half Mexican though) and Thalia among others.
But I am not Mexican and contrary to belief not all hispanics are Mexican. I don't call a Mexican a Costa Rican any more so as they would refer to me as Mexican. Sort of like calling a Japanese person Korean or vice versa. They are both "Asian" but they are not one another. Hope you understand now.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by rounder1: There are only 3 races:
Mongaloid Negroid Cauccasion
I say pick one.....I don't even give a **** which one you choose. If you're legal.....welcome to America!
If you're not.....go home.
I am neither of those choices and me/IWISH are not talking about illegals so STFU...
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Quote Machiavelli:
"Board member = Forum member... get with the program you knew what I meant..
Tell me, if we (hispanics) are white then why are we targeted for violent hate/racial crimes by White supremacists, bigots etc.? If you do not think they do I could give you links to hate crimes across the U.S. targeted at hispanics.
For lack of choices hispanics will choose "white" on a questionairre if need be but if you ask them personally the majority if not all would say they aren't... The Gov't does not speak for me about my own race... sorry...
If you think I do not like Mexicans you are sadly mistaken. I am quite fond of Mexicans, especially of the female persuasion. I am in lust with Salma Hayek (she's half Mexican though) and Thalia among others.
But I am not Mexican and contrary to belief not all hispanics are Mexican. I don't call a Mexican a Costa Rican any more so as they would refer to me as Mexican. Sort of like calling a Japanese person Korean or vice versa. They are both "Asian" but they are not one another. Hope you understand now."
_________________________________________________
Your just talking in circles trying to stay away from the point where this all started and went.
You think everyone is targeting you for many reasons it appears, by what you say.
Can't help you there, lots of bitterness it appears, tough way to go through life, especially as young as you are.
Hopefully some where down the line that changes, but unfortunately it usually doesn't get better with age.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: Your just talking in circles trying to stay away from the point where this all started and went.
You think everyone is targeting you for many reasons it appears, by what you say.
Can't help you there, lots of bitterness it appears, tough way to go through life, especially as young as you are.
Hopefully some where down the line that changes, but unfortunately it usually doesn't get better with age.
Where did i speak in circles that you speak of? I answered your posts/questions pretty straight forward.
As for my supposed bitterness and such I guess you would have to live life as a minority who gets blamed more times then not for society's ills at the end of the 20th Century and early 21st Century. Until then I guess you can't criticize someone's bitterness without empathy that you cannot experience.
Mooman has never given a straight answer as to the purpose of this thread though we know what it is. You as well as I know he hasn't.
As for the whole Mexican word. Go tell a Puerto Rican he is Mexican or vice/versa (or any hispanic/latin). Let me know what answer they gave you. I suggest you exercise your right to carry/own a gun when you do tell them what they are.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Quote Machiavelli:
"As for the whole Mexican word. Go tell a Puerto Rican he is Mexican or vice/versa (or any hispanic/latin). Let me know what answer they gave you. I suggest you exercise your right to carry/own a gun when you do tell them what they are."
_________________________________________________
Again your reading what you want things to say.
What does a Hispanic/Mexican Walmart that i think will specialize in Mexican food have anything to do with above statement?
Let alone how it has anything to do with the census and gov. and how many of the Hispanics/Mexicans consider themselves white as far as the census and their personal preferance.
I had made this statement to you:
"Actually Machiavelli the Hispanics/Mexicans are considered white also."
And this was your answer:
"Actually no were not. Do not know where you got that from. Spaniards on the other hand are."
Then i told you where i got it.
Have you every completed a census report, i believe it is required by law, but i will have to look again.
I actually worked doing the 2000 census, interesting and rather fun, would not mine doing it again.
Now to answer your above statement, not that it has anything to do with what we were talking about.
I have worked with many Mexicans/Hispanics etc. over the years.
The last one i worked with hated the Mexicans that came over the border illegally.
I never asked him why, sometimes your better off leaving well enough alone.
What i heard while driving with him told me i would hear and ear full if i asked him.
He never wanted to be refered to them in any way.
There were many others i worked with that the subject never came up one way or the other, most of us had enough garbage going on with work, like most everyone else.
Then there was another person back in the 70's that could not understand why so many of his people(Mexicans) that worked at the company would not bother to learn the English languge.
Yet as he stated, wanted to get ahead and they cound not understand why they did not.
He would explain to them, but they just ignored him, while he moved up the pay scale.
They all lived within the same community so it was not necessary to learm english and they made no attempt to teach their kids or send them where they could/would have to.
This particular indivual sent his kids to school where they had to learn english.
He liked to be refered to as Mexican, but really was never offended if called something else.
Last but not least, was 2 friends of mine that i was overseas with, they were Puerto Rican.
I heard them called Black sometimes and Mexican other times.
They were never offended, yet made it clear they were Puerto Rican and very proud of it.
I always felt those guys got the shaft when they got drafted, just like Guam did.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD:
Again your reading what you want things to say.
What does a Hispanic/Mexican Walmart that i think will specialize in Mexican food have anything to do with above statement?
Actually no one said that the Walmart supermercardos were going to specialize in Mexican food. The article says "hispanic" supermercardos not "mexican". Hispanic food varies alot and contrary to belief is not all mexican. Mooman put "mexican walmarts" in the title so automatically you assume mexican food. Mooman misnamed the thread and i pointed that out which you seemed to have not caught on or ignored completely. As for the rest of the convo and what it has to do with the thread title.Nothing nor did i say it had anything to do with it. You were the one who progressed the conversation to that direction when you said hispanics are white. So I went with the flow.
quote:I had made this statement to you:
"Actually Machiavelli the Hispanics/Mexicans are considered white also."
And this was your answer:
"Actually no were not. Do not know where you got that from. Spaniards on the other hand are."
Then i told you where i got it.
And i told you for the lack of better choices hispanics are classified into that catergory but if you asked them directly are you white? The majority will say no. And the majority of americans (non hispanics) would say no also that hispanics are not. We may have white ancestry (spaniards etc.) but that does not make us white since our blood is now mixed with either native americans (Central and South America) and/or negro blood (dominicans for example as well as Cubans)
quote:Have you every completed a census report, i believe it is required by law, but i will have to look again.
I recall i did one time long ago and like i said for a lack of more or better choices I most likely checked off "white".
quote:I have worked with many Mexicans/Hispanics etc. over the years.
The last one i worked with hated the Mexicans that came over the border illegally.
I never asked him why, sometimes your better off leaving well enough alone.
What i heard while driving with him told me i would hear and ear full if i asked him.
He never wanted to be refered to them in any way.
Your friend is the exception and not the rule. Most hispanics for the most part empathize and/or sympathize with the illegals. Why do you think the immigration issue is such a hot issue among hispanics?
quote:Then there was another person back in the 70's that could not understand why so many of his people(Mexicans) that worked at the company would not bother to learn the English languge.
Yet as he stated, wanted to get ahead and they cound not understand why they did not.
Because for the most part we keep to ourselves and do not speak nor need to speak english to each other. I don't mean me but the older generation or 1st generation hispanics for the most part.
quote:They all lived within the same community so it was not necessary to learm english and they made no attempt to teach their kids or send them where they could/would have to.
Those are exceptions and not rules. Here ,in NY at least, all hispanics send their kids to english speaking schools. ALL.If anything my own parents didn't teach me spanish correctly so my spanish tends to be childish at times while I did go to english speaking schools and my english is fluent. That is the reality of american born hispanics right now in NY at least. Can't say for rest of country.
quote:He liked to be refered to as Mexican, but really was never offended if called something else.
Last but not least, was 2 friends of mine that i was overseas with, they were Puerto Rican.
I heard them called Black sometimes and Mexican other times.
They were never offended, yet made it clear they were Puerto Rican and very proud of it.
Exceptions because every hispanic i have ever known here and in Nicaragua/Costa Rica always takes offense to being called something they are not. Some are very vocal about it and others quiet about it but all get offended for the most part because we are also very prejudiced against each other. Sad but true but we are. We'll be friendly to each other face to face for the most part but behind closed doors or behind each other's backs we say sh*t about each other.
quote:I always felt those guys got the shaft when they got drafted, just like Guam did.
Personally I think they should have the right to vote about their own fate. To stay as U.S. territory or sucede since they are not states.
Anyways IWISH i know you are trying to show you know the experiences of hispanics but unless you are one and grew up as one you will never know. That goes for all races/ethnicities. I cannot say i know what blacks go through by saying i am friends with one or because i read it in the newspaper unless I am one. And I don't pretend to know because i know that i am not one.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Quote Machiavelli:
"Exceptions because every hispanic i have ever known here and in Nicaragua/Costa Rica always takes offense to being called something they are not. Some are very vocal about it and others quiet about it but all get offended for the most part because we are also very prejudiced against each other. Sad but true but we are. We'll be friendly to each other face to face for the most part but behind closed doors or behind each other's backs we say sh*t about each other"
_________________________________________________
As far as your friends and what you and they talk about behind close doors is your problem.
I would know nothing about that, we did talk trash about our friends or others behind their backs.
Again, why does stating that Walmart is opening up a Mexican Store have to do with being a racist?
Maybe it's not completly true that it is just Mexican food store, but my lack of being completely true in this statement, could be from my not caring what they open, i think they suck.
You make statements throughout your post using the word most, you do have statistics to confirm your statements, not just friends or friends of friends, like with the Chinese.
"The 39,000-square-foot Supermercado de Walmart at 8921 W. Thomas Road in Phoenix is a former Walmart Neighborhood Market that has been remodeled and stocked with goods to appeal to Hispanic consumers.
That includes a mix of Spanish and U.S. products. Yoplait yogurt sits next to LaLa dairy products from Mexico. There is an expanded produce section, traditional Latin bakery, a baby section and expanded party aisle with piñatas and other accessories for celebrations.
Hispanics buy significantly more fresh produce, dairy and meat products than non-Hispanics, they have larger families with more children."
Quotes Iwish:
"Another factor in in figuring how much each family spends on food would depend on the family size.
"Does not mean they spend more on food than non hispanics. (Per Person)"
Like i said before i could care less what Walmart does, i would stay clear no matter what they carry.
As far as how Hispanics/Mexicans etc. choose to classify themselves, as far as a race in the census, had nothing to do with someone forcing a choice on them.
If they did not want to be considered white then they had a choice in the Questionaire.
Even though you think the majority would chose otherwise.
As far as your quote to me:
"You were the one who progressed the conversation to that direction when you said hispanics are white. So I went with the flow."
You did not go with the flow, you started the flow where you wanted it to go.
This other statement shows that, when you addressed CashCowMoo:
"i have to laugh at your backwards thinking... making it sound like hispanic influences in this country is a bad thing... I wonder if you think the same thing of italians for example with Pizza being very popular in this country as well as Little Italy's and Italian grocers and such... bet you don't because by now Italians are considered "white" unlike in the past around the late 19th and early 20th century...
Posted by glassman on :
wow, Mach what was that you were telling me about two against one?
the way i see it?
you have a serious problem, you've called me out for being racist on several occasions too.
fact?
we are all racist to some degree or another, and you expressed the most racism in this thread. identifying who is your freind and who is your foe is an evolutionarily induced trait. skin tone would be the first and most recognisable trait before you ever meet a person. it's in our DNA
Mexicans are not a race.
Hispnics are NOT a race.
It denotes the language you were raised to speak.
now, here's where it gets really stupid.
we speak English here. our Constitution is written in English.
i happen to like ketchup and salsa both, but i still speakadaAngalis. so when i go to a store? i like to be able to read what's in my food.
i still buy food at Asian markets that i cannot read the label on but i have to ask for help
at the very least 75%% of my personal ethnic background was NON_ENGLISH speaking yet i speak English, my kids speak English, so i am not being racist a by expecting everybody else to learn it too. my people learned it.
racism? nope, it's about whether we'll speak English or not.
The U.S. Office of Management and Budget currently defines "Hispanic or Latino" as "a person of Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race".
and that my paranoid buddy has nothing to do with race.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: As far as your friends and what you and they talk about behind close doors is your problem.
I would know nothing about that, we did talk trash about our friends or others behind their backs.
We'll I didn't mean gossips, rumors, this guy is an azzhole or that guy is an azzhole etc.
What I meant is such things as "Salvadorians are nothing but criminals" or "Salvadorians are mostly indian blood and not true hispanics"... things like that.. those are direct quotes from people i know about one type of hispanic... they say the same kinds of things about other types...
quote:Again, why does stating that Walmart is opening up a Mexican Store have to do with being a racist?
Again you are confused. I didn't say Walmart is racist nor you. Just Mooman for starting this thread. He wanted to make us "aware" that Walmart is starting them. And I said aware about what? He still hasn't given a satisfactory answer to that.
quote:Quotes Iwish:
"Another factor in in figuring how much each family spends on food would depend on the family size.
"Does not mean they spend more on food than non hispanics. (Per Person)"
Again IWISH, poverty and/or family size may factor into it but more then anything culture does. Everything in hispanic life centers around food. My parents are not rich nor is our family large (I don't live with them but it's just me and them. 3 people. I do go over for dinner sometimes) but they spend on average of $200 to $300 per grocery trip. That is just one example. I could give dozens from families and friends that are similar. Not all hispanic families are large. I guess you would have to spend time and i mean real time not at work and not once in a blue moon with a hispanic family to see it for yourself. I can say it all i want to you but you still won't believe me and will go by stats and such.
quote:Like i said before i could care less what Walmart does, i would stay clear no matter what they carry.
I stay clear of them as well except in times like now with the crisis and cutting back of hours at my job. I don't like Walmart for what they do to local small businesses. But I have to do what I have to do to save money and pay the bills for now.
quote:As far as how Hispanics/Mexicans etc. choose to classify themselves, as far as a race in the census, had nothing to do with someone forcing a choice on them.
If they did not want to be considered white then they had a choice in the Questionaire.
Even though you think the majority would chose otherwise.
I don't think ,I know. If I haven't met a person in 3 countries that is hispanic who identifies themselves as white in my 37 years nor have I met a white person who considers hispanics as white in my 37 years except in some piece of paper from the Gov't then tell me how I am wrong? That is not stats but personal experience. How do the stats explain my personal experiences?
quote:As far as your quote to me:
"You were the one who progressed the conversation to that direction when you said hispanics are white. So I went with the flow."
You did not go with the flow, you started the flow where you wanted it to go.
This other statement shows that, when you addressed CashCowMoo:
"i have to laugh at your backwards thinking... making it sound like hispanic influences in this country is a bad thing... I wonder if you think the same thing of italians for example with Pizza being very popular in this country as well as Little Italy's and Italian grocers and such... bet you don't because by now Italians are considered "white" unlike in the past around the late 19th and early 20th century...
That is not the census I meant but society's view in general of what people are considered.
This is an example that is not about race but shows what I mean about the Gov't's classifications. Poker is a game of skill but is not considered to be so by the Gov't so therefor it is illegal on the internet. Now ask any serious poker player if the game is skill and the answer will always be yes. Now whose right? The majority of poker players or the Gov't? Now whose right about hispanics? The majority of hispanics who see hispanic/latin as a race or the Gov't who does not recognize hispanic/latins as a race? I personally do not classify myself as white, asian or black. The 3 so called only races on this earth. And I know plenty of hispanics that feel the same way as well as whites who think the same.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: wow, Mach what was that you were telling me about two against one?
the way i see it?
you have a serious problem, you've called me out for being racist on several occasions too.
Yes the way you see it: opinion. And if you read my comments you would see i called no one a racist in this thread except Mooman. Afterall why does he keep making threads about hispanics/mexicans? Again why this thread? To make us "aware" he says. Aware about what? That he sees Hispanic supermarkets as threat to his view of the American way of life perhaps? Don't know because he won't answer truthfully or at all about this thread.
quote:fact?
we are all racist to some degree or another, and you expressed the most racism in this thread. identifying who is your freind and who is your foe is an evolutionarily induced trait. skin tone would be the first and most recognisable trait before you ever meet a person. it's in our DNA
Care to show how i am the most racist on this board? Do i keep making threads about a race or ethnicity over and over and call or imply them as a threat?
Skin tone? yes that to me defines if you are white or not. Hispanics for the most part ceased to be white long ago when bloods mixed with natives and blacks. He'll hispanics denotes to me a totally different race and not because of language. Spaniards were the true white people in Latin America til time and blood mixing changed all that.
Let me ask you something Glass and forget Gov't or other definitions of race, ethnicity , white etc. I am quite tan in color. If you put me next to someone, let's say irish who most are pretty much pale white. Do you consider me white compared to that irish person?
quote:Mexicans are not a race.
Hispnics are NOT a race.
Yes, Mexicans are not a race. I never said they were. As for hispanics, who says so? The Gov't? lol We can all agree Asians are a race and in that race there are Koreans, chinese, Japanese, Thai's etc. Now tell me why can't hispanics be considered a race who have different ones like Mexicans, Costa Ricans, Cubans, Colombians etc. Sounds the same don't it? Asians and Hispanics a race while the Japanese, Mexicans etc. are the different ones within that "race".
quote:It denotes the language you were raised to speak.
Then I suppose I am full blooded spaniard. Let's ask the spaniards if I am shall we?
quote:now, here's where it gets really stupid.
we speak English here. our Constitution is written in English.
Yah, this is really stupid because it has nothing to do with the conversation. Language.
quote: so when i go to a store? i like to be able to read what's in my food.
Learn the language then. Asian, spanish etc. if you go to those ethnic communities and their supermarkets. Perhaps if americans learned a 2nd language like most of the rest of the world does we wouldn't be considered the most uncultured Western nation. People learn english to accomodate Americans in Latin America as well as in Europe etc. Americans for the most part are arrogant when it comes to language don't you think?
But since you brought up language which has nothing to do with the topic I'll quote Wiki on it:
" In all, a full 90% of all Hispanic and Latino Americans speak English, and at least 78% of all Hispanic and Latino Americans speak Spanish.[79] Spanish is the oldest European language in the United States, spoken uninterruptedly for four and a half centuries, since the foundation of St. Augustine.[13][14][15][16]"
"The usual pattern is monolingual Spanish use among new migrants or older foreign–born Hispanics, complete bilingualism among long–settled immigrants and the children of immigrants, and the sole use of English, or both English and either Spanglish or colloquial Spanish by the third generation and beyond.
quote:at the very least 75%% of my personal ethnic background was NON_ENGLISH speaking yet i speak English, my kids speak English, so i am not being racist a by expecting everybody else to learn it too. my people learned it.
I am sure your peoples' 1st generation didn't learn it or barely spoke it. Later generations of "your people" are the ones who spoke it well. One thing us english speakers think is that english is a easy language to learn. English has so many "exceptions" to language rules it's not even funny. We think asian languages are difficult compared to our own language but in reality other languages are much easier to learn especially spanish. When you read spanish it is spoken as it is written with no exceptions to language rules.
quote:racism? nope, it's about whether we'll speak English or not.
I already established this has nothing to do with language. Mooman's motive i mean but his own prejudices.
quote:The U.S. Office of Management and Budget currently defines "Hispanic or Latino" as "a person of Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race".
and that my paranoid buddy has nothing to do with race.
Ah yes and we should take the Gov't's definition of things over the actual people they are talking about own opinions. As for me being paranoid, i guess were two peas in a pod my equally paranoid buddy.
Btw I don't hate anyone because of their race or ethnicity. If i hate someone it's because of their personality. I am an equal opportunity hater. Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Quote Machiavelli:
"Again IWISH, poverty and/or family size may factor into it but more then anything culture does. Everything in hispanic life centers around food. My parents are not rich nor is our family large (I don't live with them but it's just me and them. 3 people. I do go over for dinner sometimes) but they spend on average of $200 to $300 per grocery trip. That is just one example. I could give dozens from families and friends that are similar. Not all hispanic families are large. I guess you would have to spend time and i mean real time not at work and not once in a blue moon with a hispanic family to see it for yourself. I can say it all i want to you but you still won't believe me and will go by stats and such."
_________________________________________________
I am only going to address this above statement, kinda tired with talking about Walmart, were just going in circles.
You did not read my earlier posts or you forgot them.
I have grown up with and been around Hispanics/Mexican etc. families most of my life.
I just got done coaching a team that 85% of the players were hispanic. I had no relatives or friends of mine kids on the team.
As far as how large or how small a particular family is depends on the family. The fact is they were refering to the average size in general, compared to other American familes, i assume.
As far as what they eat and how it is prepared, seems to depend how a particular family likes their food, not any different than any other families.
They had plenty of food at the end of the season party for this baseball team and me, each prepared their dishes a little different.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: I have grown up with and been around Hispanics/Mexican etc. families most of my life.
I've known PR's most of my life but know nothing of their culture as they do not know anything about CR culture. I just know CR culture and hispanic culture in general. The commonalities you can say. But anyways if hispanic families on average were equal and not greater to the average American family they would still buy more food then the american family due to culture. imo and from being hispanic all my life in a small family. Smaller then the american average.
Do admire you for embracing and not staying away from hispanics/mexicans like the rest of society though. Wish it was like that but sadly it's not. Were scapegoats instead.
Posted by glassman on :
Care to show how i am the most racist on this board
you do this over and over again. i didnt say that and you know it.
I am sure your peoples' 1st generation didn't learn it or barely spoke it
that's what i said. one ancestral line took several hundred generations to learn it since they were Cherokee
it really is about language.
when i lived in SoCali i knew several Mexican Americans who plainly stated that they and their people fully intended to take California back by laoding the votes. When i asked them did they mean taking it to Spanish speaking or taking it to be another Mexican State? they said both. i asked why they'd want to givbe up the great deal they get by being part of the US and they did not have an answer. It was simply about some sort of ancestral pride thing.
the only reason i point this out to you is that, as Iwish also pointed out to you, seem pretty angry and that's not a real good way to live.
Cash seems angry about Obam getting elected,
i was angry not about Bush getting elected but getting re-elected in '04...
i'm over it now, and better for it.
all women are/have been economically oppressed. being angry doesn't make them more successful, being GOOD does it.
there's a lot of oppression out htere, but the fact is? even white men oppress each other for odd reasons... wrong school, wrong club within the school, too much hair, too little hair etc. etc. etc.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: Care to show how i am the most racist on this board
you do this over and over again. i didnt say that and you know it.
But you said I express the most racism on this board so wouldn't that in a way make me the most racist in your eyes? As for me bringing up the the ills of societies racism. Do I not have a reason to? Afterall you see it all the time... just look around... people seem to think that if they ignore that it exists it will go away but it won't and you know it...
quote:that's what i said. one ancestral line took several hundred generations to learn it since they were Cherokee
it really is about language.
So if it took several hundred generations in your own family why does the public expect 1st generation immigrants to learn it fluently? A language that is very difficult because of it's grammar and pronunciation rules with a million exceptions to such rules? Why can't people just accept that 1st generation immigrants probably will not learn it fluently but suceeding generations will so therefor it all cancels out. Remember wiki says 90% of hispanics speak soley english and/or both spanish and english. That % will only increase but as always Americans are impatient.
quote: It was simply about some sort of ancestral pride thing.
Yah, it's the pride thing and you can't blame them. You would feel the same probably if you were Mexican. Afterall don't you feel the Europeans took away the Cherokee's land?
quote:the only reason i point this out to you is that, as Iwish also pointed out to you, seem pretty angry and that's not a real good way to live.
Can you blame me? When all I hear is hispanics caused this and hispanics caused that and all hispanics are illegal etc.. etc.. how would you feel? Being mad about elections is one thing but race and such is a totally different thing.
I know I'm a good person but that doesn't mean i can't be angry about certain injustices imo.
Posted by glassman on :
But you said I express the most racism on this board
once again? no i did not. go back and reread. i beleive allot of the "arguments" we have are due to this.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: But you said I express the most racism on this board
once again? no i did not. go back and reread. i beleive allot of the "arguments" we have are due to this.
yes and with good cause most of the times.. i knew what you meant just makes me feel like im being called racist myself for bringing it up...
Posted by thinkmoney on :
This is america and not hispanic nor mexican - want that culture go there - all are a part but none are it -
America absorbs all but we are USA and English is the language - I am first generation and I learned english very well - all A's from 1st grade and then my MBA-
Dad came here legally and worked 60 -80 hrs and didnt take welfare and mom didnt pop out kids -
He worked and he died for it so his kids would have the american dream - all his kids went to college not at the expense of the state but his work - He is european and melted into the pot vs trying to take it and leech from it-
I say all illegals should be kicked out and their kids ---- americans worked hard to create this country and I dont want leeches like the illegals to siphon the system- and ultimatley destroy it -
Ultimatley, no system can support leeches-and, I am totally against supporting the illegals - But, if you come here legally and want to contribute to this land - and work - you are welcome -
This land wa made by folks that had values of hard work, etc..
And, Machiavelli- you are a racist - it is so apparent you dont like this country yet you are here - why not go to mexico or wherever and work to make that nation great? Instead, you use your energy to attack USA - go to mexico and help folks there to build a nation vs coming here to steal--
Posted by glassman on :
as i have tried to point out to you before?
illegals get in line in front of legit migrants. that's one part of the problem.
the other part is too many immigrants at one time. that is in fact primarily a Mexican issue.
why should Mexicans get to get in by cheating and then get prioritised to the "front of the line" simply due to a geographical twist of fate that allows them to walk in?
if you try to cross Mexico to get here and they catch you? i understand they are very harsh.
America has some of the fairest immigration laws and principles in the world.
if somebody cuts in line in front of me at the checkout? i speak up, unless they are a little old lady Posted by rounder1 on :
quote:Originally posted by Machiavelli:
quote:Originally posted by rounder1: There are only 3 races:
Mongaloid Negroid Cauccasion
I say pick one.....I don't even give a **** which one you choose. If you're legal.....welcome to America!
If you're not.....go home.
I am neither of those choices and me/IWISH are not talking about illegals so STFU...
You are a funny guy.....but unfortunately you are one of those three....just like everyone else on the planet (scientifically speaking).....or perhaps you are a race unto yourself......you seem to have the ego to support that concept.
My bad.....I was supposed to stfu; wasn't I?
I have one for you....... kma; and, put forth an argument that renders me speechless.
My intent was to show that scientifically "hispanic" is a cultural term.....there is not enough genetic difference to keep "hispanics" from being lumped into a one of the three generic categories. Further, with regard to my comment about illegals.......it was not really about illegals in America......It was about "who give a S$^t about race or culture if you follow the rules of a given society".....
Furthermore, my post was not directed at you or "Iwish."......it was simply a general observation.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by thinkmoney: This is america and not hispanic nor mexican - want that culture go there - all are a part but none are it -
America absorbs all but we are USA and English is the language - I am first generation and I learned english very well - all A's from 1st grade and then my MBA-
Dad came here legally and worked 60 -80 hrs and didnt take welfare and mom didnt pop out kids -
He worked and he died for it so his kids would have the american dream - all his kids went to college not at the expense of the state but his work - He is european and melted into the pot vs trying to take it and leech from it-
I say all illegals should be kicked out and their kids ---- americans worked hard to create this country and I dont want leeches like the illegals to siphon the system- and ultimatley destroy it -
Ultimatley, no system can support leeches-and, I am totally against supporting the illegals - But, if you come here legally and want to contribute to this land - and work - you are welcome -
This land wa made by folks that had values of hard work, etc..
Cry me a River WTF does this all have to do with Walmart opening supermarkets targeting the HISPANIC community or if Hispanics are classified as whites or not? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING...
This thread was not about illegal immigration so if your english is fluent then you just got a F in reading and should go back to school...
btw it's well known that new immigrants , especially adults, who do not know english never fully learn it fluently (and not for a lack of trying)but their children and their childrens' children do. That is how it has always been with immigrants because adults can't learn languages as easily as children can. Do not know why but it is.
quote:And, Machiavelli- you are a racist - it is so apparent you dont like this country yet you are here - why not go to mexico or wherever and work to make that nation great? Instead, you use your energy to attack USA - go to mexico and help folks there to build a nation vs coming here to steal--
Oh, excuse me I didn't know you were Mach and can say your a racist. Racist means i hate a race of which the USA and/or Americans in general are not a race.
But I will humor you. I never said nor do I hate America or Americans. I am COSTA RICAN-American and proud of it. And I hate to burst your bubble but my attacks on the USA are the same as yours or anyone elses'. We pick issues we do not like about America and we argue them. Racism and Immigration happen to be issues i care deeply about of which you could never understand why being from European descent. Have you experienced true racism directed at you or your family since the day you were born? I doubt it. And you are blind if you do not see it in this country how minorities are treated. And that includes all minorities and not just the hispanic community. So you live in your little fantasy world about the "American Dream". The dream for any human being is to work hard and get ahead and that my friend is not exclusive to any particular country. It's a World Dream not an American Dream.
And like i said i'm an equally opportunity hater based on personalities and not race. go back and read that part to earn an A.
Also it's quite sad that you and your father/family do not remember/honor where you came from. Your homeland. Everyone should after all most if not all families did not originate here. Not saying don't be proud to be an American but also do not forget where your family first came from.
Posted by glassman on :
Racism and Immigration happen to be issues i care deeply about of which you could never understand why being from European descent.
there it is Mach.
fact is? nobody knows how it feels to be somebody else.
black, white, yella, red, man woman it don't matter.
however you are the one making the racist statements in this case.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: as i have tried to point out to you before?
illegals get in line in front of legit migrants. that's one part of the problem.
the other part is too many immigrants at one time. that is in fact primarily a Mexican issue.
why should Mexicans get to get in by cheating and then get prioritised to the "front of the line" simply due to a geographical twist of fate that allows them to walk in?
if you try to cross Mexico to get here and they catch you? i understand they are very harsh.
America has some of the fairest immigration laws and principles in the world.
if somebody cuts in line in front of me at the checkout? i speak up, unless they are a little old lady
Dont' encourage them Glass. You know full well we weren't discussing illegal immigration in this thread about the Walmart and/or race classification topics.
Plus too many immigrants is not a mexican issue and I have heard you say in threads that America needs to be more fair with immigration entrance rules. America has always been unfair throughout it's history towards immigrants based on what immigrant is unpopular at the time. In the late 19th century it was the irish/italians/poles/jews etc. Later it was the Chinese and in the late 20th century and early 21st century it is the hispanics. I could cite some of the laws from the past targeting certain immigrant groups if you wish? But I did not want this thread discussion to be about immigration whether legal or illegal.
You and the rest played right into Mooman's hands. Touche. Was trying to get him to admit it but he was smart and kept quiet and let you do it for him and showed your own prejudices.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: Racism and Immigration happen to be issues i care deeply about of which you could never understand why being from European descent.
there it is Mach.
fact is? nobody knows how it feels to be somebody else.
black, white, yella, red, man woman it don't matter.
Whites don't know how it feels Glass and then they question why people like me feel passionate about it and then accuse someone like me of being the racist. You know that is true.
The only time I think whites do is with affirmative action which I wouldn't call racist but more like leveling the field. Btw I don't agree with AA unless it's quite evident that an institution is prohibiting a minority on purpose.
Posted by glassman on :
actually it was brought up right away in the very first page Mach.
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: California isnt a liberal state financially? So spending 25% of Los Angeles County's welfare on illegal aliens is conservative then?
According to new data from the Department of Public Social Services, nearly twenty five percent of Los Angeles County ’s welfare and food stamp benefits goes directly to the children of illegal aliens, at a cost of $36 million a month -- for a projected annual cost of $432 million.
“The total cost for illegal immigrants to County taxpayers far exceeds $1 billion a year – not including the millions of dollars for education,” said Antonovich. “With $220 million for public safety, $400 million for healthcare, and $432 million in welfare allocations, illegal immigration continues to have a devastating impact on Los Angeles County taxpayers.” Illegal immigration continues to have a devastating impact on all of California.
Californias open door and sancuary city policies spread throughout the state is hurting them so bad.
has it ever occurred to you that small businesses run by Hispanics will be the ones Wal Mart put out of business next with this new plan?
they've put most of the "white" small businesses out here in the small towns in the south where they started.
.
Posted by rounder1 on :
Mach,
your stubborness and illogical dissertations have revealed your true idententity.......you are my ex-wife.....btw, the check is in the mail, sweetheart! (just kidding).
Seriously though,.....how are the Chinese at making "Hispanic" merchandise? I did not think that Wally World bought anything from a country in "our" hemispere......just read it and chuckle.....it is not worth comment.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by rounder1: You are a funny guy.....but unfortunately you are one of those three....just like everyone else on the planet (scientifically speaking).....or perhaps you are a race unto yourself......you seem to have the ego to support that concept.
IMO race is something that is personal and cannot be "scientifically" proven. Put a hispanic in a group of "whites" or in a group of "blacks" or a group of "asians". I would bet you could pick out that hispanic every single time because they are "genetically" different then the rest in each group. We genetically have certain physical features that differeniates us from others much like you can tell an asian from a white.
quote:My bad.....I was supposed to stfu; wasn't I?
Yes you are suppose to so why haven't you?
quote:I have one for you....... kma; and, put forth an argument that renders me speechless.
Sorry it's too hairy, shave it first so someone maybe even considers kissing it.
quote:My intent was to show that scientifically "hispanic" is a cultural term.....
Any racial or ethnic term can be construed as cultural. These terms just didn't come out of nowhere and didn't come from scientists.
quote: there is not enough genetic difference to keep "hispanics" from being lumped into a one of the three generic categories.
Read my above example about hispanics lumped into certain groups and whether you can pick them out based on physical characteristics.
quote: Further, with regard to my comment about illegals.......it was not really about illegals in America......It was about "who give a S$^t about race or culture if you follow the rules of a given society".....
Furthermore, my post was not directed at you or "Iwish."......it was simply a general observation.
Could of fooled me. Next time be more specific. And obviously people like Mooman, thinkmoney etc. care about culture and are ignorant about race or are racist/prejudice without knowing it.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: actually it was brought up right away in the very first page Mach.
That has to do with the 2nd half of Mooman's thread title and has nothing to do with "mexican" walmarts. The first half of the title is what I was targeting about him.
quote:has it ever occurred to you that small businesses run by Hispanics will be the ones Wal Mart put out of business next with this new plan?
they've put most of the "white" small businesses out here in the small towns in the south where they started.
.
Wow Glassy, guess you didn't read the thread because i said the same thing several times that even IWISH can acknowledge that I did.
I said already that I do not want Walmart opening in this communities because it will destroy small hispanic run businesses. That again is not the issue but I did say it. The issue still is why Mooman does not want hispanic supermarkets opened by Walmart? We both know he doesn't care about them destroying local small businesses. So what did he mean by making us "aware" that Walmart is opening them?
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by rounder1: Mach,
your stubborness and illogical dissertations have revealed your true idententity.......you are my ex-wife.....btw, the check is in the mail, sweetheart! (just kidding).
Seriously though,.....how are the Chinese at making "Hispanic" merchandise? I did not think that Wally World bought anything from a country in "our" hemispere......just read it and chuckle.....it is not worth comment.
Eh? Make sense then get back to me and make sure that check is Big.
Posted by T e x on :
quote:Originally posted by thinkmoney: This is america and not hispanic nor mexican - want that culture go there - all are a part but none are it -
America absorbs all but we are USA and English is the language - I am first generation and I learned english very well - all A's from 1st grade and then my MBA-
Dad came here legally and worked 60 -80 hrs and didnt take welfare and mom didnt pop out kids -
He worked and he died for it so his kids would have the american dream - all his kids went to college not at the expense of the state but his work - He is european and melted into the pot vs trying to take it and leech from it-
I say all illegals should be kicked out and their kids ---- americans worked hard to create this country and I dont want leeches like the illegals to siphon the system- and ultimatley destroy it -
Ultimatley, no system can support leeches-and, I am totally against supporting the illegals - But, if you come here legally and want to contribute to this land - and work - you are welcome -
This land wa made by folks that had values of hard work, etc..
And, Machiavelli- you are a racist - it is so apparent you dont like this country yet you are here - why not go to mexico or wherever and work to make that nation great? Instead, you use your energy to attack USA - go to mexico and help folks there to build a nation vs coming here to steal--
Think?
Ya, this land was made by hard work... and in most cases--historically speaking-the hardest work was done wa-a-a-a-y before the Europeans landed.
But the immigration laws go alllllll the way back to the natives, who also had very lax border patrol.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by T e x: Think?
Ya, this land was made by hard work... and in most cases--historically speaking-the hardest work was done wa-a-a-a-y before the Europeans landed.
But the immigration laws go alllllll the way back to the natives, who also had very lax border patrol.
Ty Tex. He seems to think history in this country only started 1776 and after and forgets this land has had a history before then. Guess he wasn't taught that in school. Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Quote Rounder:
Mach,
"your stubborness and illogical dissertations have revealed your true idententity.......you are my ex-wife.....btw, the check is in the mail, sweetheart! (just kidding).
Seriously though,.....how are the Chinese at making "Hispanic" merchandise? I did not think that Wally World bought anything from a country in "our" hemispere......just read it and chuckle.....it is not worth comment."
_________________________________________________
You had me laughing on that one.
Walmart pay's their employee's health insurance and pay's big wages, which really helps our economy... or do they
But they are great for crushing smaller mom and pop businesses.
Then there is their counterpart Target.
"FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ADVOCATE SHOPPING AT TARGET INSTEAD OF WAL-MART, READ ON:
Wasn’t it last Christmas that Target refused to let the Salvation Army ring their bells in front of their stores?
Dick Forrey of the Vietnam Veterans Association wrote.
“Recently we asked the local TARGET store to be a proud sponsor of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall during our spring recognition event.
We received the following reply from the local TARGET management: “ Veterans do not meet our area of giving. We only donate to the arts, social action groups, gay & lesbian causes, and education.”
So I’m thinking, if the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall and veterans in general, do not meet their donation criteria,then something is really wrong at this TARGET store. We were not asking for thousands of dollars, not even hundreds, just a small sponsorship for a memorial remembrance.
As a follow-up, I E-mailed the TARGET U.S. Corporate Headquarters and their response was the same. That’s their national policy.
Then I looked into the company further. They will not allow the Marines to collect for ‘Toys for Tots’ at any of their stores. And during the recent Iraq deployment, they would not allow families of employees who were called up for active duty to continue their insurance coverage while they were on military service.
Then as I dig further, TARGET is a French-owned corporation. Now, I’m thinking again. If TARGET cannot support American Veterans, then why should my family and I support their stores by spending our hard earned American dollars! And, have their profits sent to France. Without the American Vets, where would France be today? “They, most likely would be speaking German and trading in Deutsche Marks”
Sincerely, Dick Forrey Veterans Helping Veterans
Posted by T e x on :
"She," fwiw...
anyway, this statement here killz me:
I say all illegals should be kicked out and their kids...
By that reasoning, no Euros, no Afros, no original Asians; no by-the-way Aussies; and by extension? no jazz, no blues, no rock n' roll...
in other words--no America.
Posted by retiredat49 on :
quote:Originally posted by T e x: "She," fwiw...
anyway, this statement here killz me:
I say all illegals should be kicked out and their kids...
By that reasoning, no Euros, no Afros, no original Asians; no by-the-way Aussies; and by extension? no jazz, no blues, no rock n' roll...
in other words--no America.
Tex...
I believe she said all "illegals", NOT all immigrants....BIG difference
Posted by thinkmoney on :
Mach - you are a racist and WAKE UP - you constantly cry about white america and label and attack it -
Apparently, you have a brick up your ass - Not once have I heard you be positive towards usa esp white america - there is jealousy in your blood abd hatred and you blame it on USA -
What an excuse- crying that I dont know what it is like to be a minority - I do know I learned not to cry due to my nationality when my parents came here - And, I learned to get ahead was thru work, etc...
And, there are prejudices beyond race everywhere something you know nothing about cause you constantly cry - i am tired of folks cring and blamimg others' for thier problems -
And, I do know prejudice - folks look at me and blame me for their problems and expect me to work for them instead of working themselves - etc, etc ...
Constantly am reminded that slavery is my fault when I had nothing to do with it as is for many americans - etc, etc...
Posted by jordanreed on :
mach is far from racist....from what I gather, he does not hate anyone..he does not whine and cry about white america (altho he prolly has some great experiances)...he does not bleed the system and works hard to support the US...so what the hell are you talking about TM?..I see, by the time that you posted, you must have had a few snorts off the ol bottle..but you are way out of line. That old line.."America, love it or leave it" is tired and without merit...it should read.."America, if you love it, change it"..
I know you're prolly sleepin it off now and missed church..but when you wake up I hope you have the decency to apoligize.
Posted by thinkmoney on :
Huh? I cant post at 4:30 ,...
Yes, IMO Mach is a racist cause he is totally negative towards white america as exemplified by most his posts -
Why would I apologize for my opinion? I say it as I see it -
Posted by jordanreed on :
cuz your opinion is wrong,,thats why.
Posted by retiredat49 on :
Jordan...it is my opinion that your opinion of thinkmoney's opinion is wrong...
Posted by glassman on :
it is my opinion that retiredat49's opinion that your opinion of thinkmoney's opinion is right too...
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Mach has some rather far reaching views, and in the case of immigration if you dont favor blanket amnesty or over-generous opinions about illegal immigration then you in his opinion are a racist.
Something is funny with all of that.
Posted by Lockman on :
quote:Originally posted by thinkmoney: Huh? I cant post at 4:30 ,...
Yes, IMO Mach is a racist cause he is totally negative towards white america as exemplified by most his posts -
Why would I apologize for my opinion? I say it as I see it -
Unfortunately this opinion is looking right.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by thinkmoney: Mach - you are a racist and WAKE UP - you constantly cry about white america and label and attack it -
Apparently, you have a brick up your ass - Not once have I heard you be positive towards usa esp white america - there is jealousy in your blood abd hatred and you blame it on USA -
What an excuse- crying that I dont know what it is like to be a minority - I do know I learned not to cry due to my nationality when my parents came here - And, I learned to get ahead was thru work, etc...
And, there are prejudices beyond race everywhere something you know nothing about cause you constantly cry - i am tired of folks cring and blamimg others' for thier problems -
And, I do know prejudice - folks look at me and blame me for their problems and expect me to work for them instead of working themselves - etc, etc ...
Constantly am reminded that slavery is my fault when I had nothing to do with it as is for many americans - etc, etc...
I attack what I believe is wrong in America imo just like you do. If that makes me a racist then I guess you are as well. Btw Americans aren't a race so I can't be racist and also I have already told you that I'm an equal opportunity hater based on personality not race. You seem to convenietly to forget that.
And since you mentioned it, I take it your ancestors were not living in American in the 1800's so therefor they didn't have anything to do with slavery which in turn means: STOP CRYING.
P.S. I don't believe in blaming any current Americans for the sins of past Americans. Only what you do today should be looked upon. But you didn't read that since I must hate all Americans even myself. Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: mach is far from racist....from what I gather, he does not hate anyone..he does not whine and cry about white america (altho he prolly has some great experiances)...he does not bleed the system and works hard to support the US...so what the hell are you talking about TM?..I see, by the time that you posted, you must have had a few snorts off the ol bottle..but you are way out of line. That old line.."America, love it or leave it" is tired and without merit...it should read.."America, if you love it, change it"..
I know you're prolly sleepin it off now and missed church..but when you wake up I hope you have the decency to apoligize.
I am Mach and I support/endorse this opinion.
Paid for by the Friends Of Mach Organization. Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Mach has some rather far reaching views, and in the case of immigration if you dont favor blanket amnesty or over-generous opinions about illegal immigration then you in his opinion are a racist.
Something is funny with all of that.
Oh I don't recall ever saying that i favor or don't favor blanket amnesty for illegal immigrants. I have said that i empathize and sympathize with the illegal immigrants though.
You racist or prejudice? Perhaps since you don't seem to include any illegal immigrants in your discussion that are non-hispanic judging by your threads you create such as this one. Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: it is my opinion that retiredat49's opinion that your opinion of thinkmoney's opinion is right too...
Do you believe I am racist Glass? If you can classify Americans as a race like ThinkMoney does which would mean i hate myself since I'm an American.
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WTF does this all have to do with Walmart opening supermarkets targeting the HISPANIC community or if Hispanics are classified as whites or not? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING...