posted
Yes they will find another way to kill but not with such success as with a gun.
not so,
to try to put this into perspective? 1 pint of gasoline vaporised, very easy to do, is equal to one stick of dynamite...
it really isn't hard to find a way to commit mass destruction... the people going on these rampages are sick, and have been victimised by their community. whether they should feel victimised is irrelevant after the fact...
the actual energy in 1 gallon of gasoline is 65 times that of a stick of dynamite.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
The reason for the 2nd ammenment was to defend ourselves from a tyranical government.. It is quite well documented if you have either the desire or the wit to research it. So yes mac10's are just fine and clearly it is not an issue considering the percentage of homicides in this country... .7% of all deaths in this nation are homicides... POINT SEVEN PERCENT... of that a fraction involves guns.. So I would say and the evidence supports my saying your concerns are baseless like very few insane claims can be.
If you truly are that worried about guns making it to your wonderful bastion of peace there in Toronto then I suggest you hear the call to action and rush down to the OPP recruiting office and enroll. fight the battle that needn't be fought.
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posted
No it's fairly well written... Intent was obviously to limit government's ability to limit freedom. My problem is that government sees those documents as "Just a piece of goddamned paper".
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: None of the stated reasons for banning guns would be squashed by the actual banning of guns.. so there has to be another reason... A gun in the hands of the free public only threatens one entity... Government. Therefore government is behind the wish to ban guns because they feel threatened. One could use the same line they use on us... If you're not up to no good then you have nothing to fear.
edit...
quote:A gun in the hands of the free public only threatens one entity...
I suspect you intend ... threatens only one entity
-------------------- Nashoba Holba Chepulechi Adventures in microcapitalism...
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: No it's fairly well written... Intent was obviously to limit government's ability to limit freedom. My problem is that government sees those documents as "Just a piece of goddamned paper".
I can see where it came from because it was the public who were taught to fight along side the troops that help secure freedom from the British. I think.
Guns are a hot topic. But I like it. Thanks for your input.
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quote:Originally posted by jgrecoconstr: Man has always created from the dawn of time a better more efficient way to kill each other. Take Hitler for example, it wasn't efficient to shoot all those people so they gassed them. So if you actually did do a study on gun to non gun related deaths I'm sure using Hitler as an example guns would come in second. If I recall the tribal wars of which I am no expert on that were in Congo I believe several years back most of those killed were hacked to pieces because they had more machetes than guns.
Gassing is a one time thing in history while gun deaths are a constant... I don't know the # of people that were gassed during WW2 but I would still bet deaths by guns far out number that...
as for the Congo people... I think you would agree that since guns were not available to those tribes then they were very limited on how many they can kill... and if you would give them guns they would kill more... they are the perfect example of a society that lived gun free and therefor had less violent deaths compared to the West...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: banning guns will do only one thing. take guns away from honest people
As always i never said ban guns... please do tell me where i did in this thread? ... and if honest people are honest then they have nothing to fear from changes in laws to make it harder for criminals to obtain them.. and please spare me the lecture that the current laws, systems do just that because we all know they are flawed and are not keeping the guns from the criminals... all i hear is GI JOe wanna be's b*tching about their guns being taken away when no one is really sayin that.. we just want to make it more difficult for guns to get in the wrong hands that is all... if you are not a "wrong hand" then you have nothing to fear... that should be the goal instead of letting a free for all that has gotten out of hand in this country...
As a gun owner you should be outraged when guns fall into the wrong hands and are used in such a thing as a mass killing and demand that strict laws be enacted not to ban any gun but to stop illegal sales more so etc.. which gives every gun owner a bad name due to it... giving guns a bad name in other words as well..
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: No it's fairly well written... Intent was obviously to limit government's ability to limit freedom. My problem is that government sees those documents as "Just a piece of goddamned paper".
I can see where it came from because it was the public who were taught to fight along side the troops that help secure freedom from the British. I think.
Guns are a hot topic. But I like it. Thanks for your input.
hot topic?
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
done been chilled in this thread...
pay a 10 shun
-------------------- Nashoba Holba Chepulechi Adventures in microcapitalism...
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: Our guns cause violence? I must not be aware of the newest evil A.I. being incorporated into guns and their ability to go off and cause such violence... Where is John Connor when you need him..
The illegal availability of them causes it... doesn't take a genius to realize that...
quote:Seriously I don't care even slightly about Mexico's woes... If they have problems with guns being imported then I suggest they start monitoring their borders.. Novel (***$^)) idea huh? Hows about they pay attention to their #*&*hole of a country and stop trying to blame mine...
Like I said we already know you don't care much about anything... much less your childrens' safety from gun violence and drug addictions they may partake in... and btw here's a thought for you... how about we stop the trafficking of guns at the source... our side of the border like we expect Mexico to stop trafficking of drugs and illegal immigration on their side of the border... novel #!$#! idea no? ...
Blame mine? Last I checked it was ours... all of us citizens not just yours Mr. Vain... plus kind of hyprocritical we can blame Mexico for drugs and illegal immigration but we can't get blamed for illegal gun trafficking etc...
quote:I never said anything about no laws... I have repeated that all we need are some basics:
Don't kill people unless in defense. Don't steal ****. Don't rape people.
Yeah that's about it. Simple as it should be.
ahh yes let's forget :
drug trafficking Child pornography/pedophilia bank robbery kidnapping etc. etc.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: Our guns cause violence? I must not be aware of the newest evil A.I. being incorporated into guns and their ability to go off and cause such violence... Where is John Connor when you need him..
The illegal availability of them causes it... doesn't take a genius to realize that...
quote:Seriously I don't care even slightly about Mexico's woes... If they have problems with guns being imported then I suggest they start monitoring their borders.. Novel (***$^)) idea huh? Hows about they pay attention to their #*&*hole of a country and stop trying to blame mine...
Like I said we already know you don't care much about anything... much less your childrens' safety from gun violence and drug addictions they may partake in... and btw here's a thought for you... how about we stop the trafficking of guns at the source... our side of the border like we expect Mexico to stop trafficking of drugs and illegal immigration on their side of the border... novel #!$#! idea no? ...
Blame mine? Last I checked it was ours... all of us citizens not just yours Mr. Vain... plus kind of hyprocritical we can blame Mexico for drugs and illegal immigration but we can't get blamed for illegal gun trafficking etc...
quote:I never said anything about no laws... I have repeated that all we need are some basics:
Don't kill people unless in defense. Don't steal ****. Don't rape people.
Yeah that's about it. Simple as it should be.
ahh yes let's forget :
drug trafficking Child pornography/pedophilia bank robbery kidnapping etc. etc.
you're not paying attention, either
-------------------- Nashoba Holba Chepulechi Adventures in microcapitalism...
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posted
Six years ago I asked a friend of mine about the first four words of the 2nd Amendment. He changed the subject and showed me his new CCW card. He said some day they are going to change the rules and he wanted to get it while he could, just cause he could. He was the proud owner of 152 guns (more now) at the time. I'm glad he's my friend. Anyway, he was b*tching about the rules so I thought I would ask him about those words.
2nd Amendment- A well regulated Militia
I tried to find an 18th century definition of the word but no luck. Noah Webster was quite the defender of the Constitution. Here is definition.
Date "regulated" was first used in popular English literature: sometime before 1517.
(references)
Specialty Definition: Regulation
(From Wikipedia, the free Encyclopedia)
A regulation (as a legal term) is a rule created by an administrative agency or body that interprets the statute(s) setting out the agency's purpose and powers, or the circumstances of applying the statute.
In the context of government and public services regulation (as a process) is the control of something by rules, as opposed to its prohibition.
This is kinda leaning towards "no limit" on rules and regs.
quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: No it's fairly well written... Intent was obviously to limit government's ability to limit freedom. My problem is that government sees those documents as "Just a piece of goddamned paper".
I can see where it came from because it was the public who were taught to fight along side the troops that help secure freedom from the British. I think.
Guns are a hot topic. But I like it. Thanks for your input.
hot topic?
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
done been chilled in this thread...
pay a 10 shun
You are correct Sir. I will try harder next time. . . . . . . . HEY GUYS, I just got in sh*t for my very first time.
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at the time of the writing? a well regulated militia could have meant well practiced and trained...
however the founders were wordsmiths and chose their words carefully.
well-regulated does mean managed or controlled.
therefore, i PROPOSE that the idea of regulation of the Govt by the "people whose rights shall not be infringed" was part of the intent of the framers as well...
militias (by definition) are unpaid volunteers.
they provide ALL of thier own clothing and supplies. even Cannon. when this was written? Cannons were the heavy artillery of the day and they were privately owned too..
the founders most definitely beleived in private armies. a wealthy Gentleman would be expected to raise and support his own militia in time of need.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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posted
They certainly were wordsmiths given their time...ie, when many people could not read or write at all, much less write articulately. However, standards do change, and by current standards, some parts of the Constitution are downright awkward. Take Article II, for example:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Recast today, in an attempt to preserve as much of the original language as possible, we would remove the first and third commas: "A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."
Of course, today we would also recognize the change from militia to the Guard and be more explicit about the people's right to self and common defense...and hunting, which was thought then to be so common-sensically obvious that it did not need to be specifically addressed.
Of course, they also thought they had such common-sense provisions covered by Articles IV and IX--which also make clear that these rights are preserved for the individuals who constitute "the people," as opposed to the various state governments.
-------------------- Nashoba Holba Chepulechi Adventures in microcapitalism...
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quote:The illegal availability of them causes it... doesn't take a genius to realize that...
Apparently.. it's already illegal... Sooo whatcha want me to do about that?.. Declare it double dog illegal?
quote:Like I said we already know you don't care much about anything... much less your childrens' safety from gun violence and drug addictions they may partake in... and btw here's a thought for you... how about we stop the trafficking of guns at the source... our side of the border like we expect Mexico to stop trafficking of drugs and illegal immigration on their side of the border... novel #!$#! idea no? ...
Saying I don't care about my child is enough for you to be considered a twit... We expect better from you... nuff said. Drug war with Mexico: I'm pretty sure that the current war on drugs is unconstitutional simply because it implies most clearly that we do not own outright our selves. It's a clear statement that government owns us. So I would say legalize drugs and then... no more war... yay problem solved.
quote: Blame mine? Last I checked it was ours... all of us citizens not just yours Mr. Vain... plus kind of hyprocritical we can blame Mexico for drugs and illegal immigration but we can't get blamed for illegal gun trafficking etc...
Ummm.. I said they were blaming my country... said nothing about you.. Try to focus. And we just discussed the drug thing even though I never brought it up as I(again) do not care about it as I see the whole situation as a witless war on an all powerfull enemy... Human want. And no we are not to blame for gun trafficking if they have laws against it and they aren't enforcing those laws.
quote: let's forget :
drug trafficking Child pornography/pedophilia bank robbery kidnapping etc. etc.
Drugs.. we've discussed twice already in this post and that's enough of that. Kiddy porn or kid scrogging... Heyyy that's rape isn't it?.. already covered. Bank robbery... Isn't that stealin' ****? Yup sure is. Kidnapping?... Yeah add false imprisonment to my list.
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I got the 35% number from many different gun dealers up here in MI...it is probably closer to 50% now...
Stable huh...LMAO again
Those #'s unless I missed it somewhere in those articles are for local areas and not national #'s... much like your 35%.
Of the articles you posted i agree with these statements:
"While the Second Amendment to the Constitution guarantees Americans the right to bear arms, the fundamental disagreement remains what kind of arms Americans may bear and what the government's role should be in maintaining public safety in a country that's very fond of its guns."
"Obama said enforcement of gun laws should be more effective, and he listed strengthening background checks, tracking guns used in violent crimes to unscrupulous dealers, and closing gun show “loopholes” "
"He also expressed support for federal passage of a law like one recently passed in California. It would use laser technology to etch a serial number onto each bullet. Obama called the tracing of bullets used in crimes “the kind of common-sense gun law that gun owners as well as victims of gun violence can get behind.”
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: Apparently.. it's already illegal... Sooo whatcha want me to do about that?.. Declare it double dog illegal?
How about demand the Feds enforce current gun laws more strongly about as much as you demand they enforce illegal immigration and other related laws....
quote:Saying I don't care about my child is enough for you to be considered a twit... We expect better from you... nuff said.
If you cared about your child you would want a peaceful safe world for them free from violence and hard drugs that do them harm.. since you do not then no you do not care about your child and in that regards you would be the twit and i would care more for your child and every child in general...
quote:Drug war with Mexico: I'm pretty sure that the current war on drugs is unconstitutional simply because it implies most clearly that we do not own outright our selves. It's a clear statement that government owns us. So I would say legalize drugs and then... no more war... yay problem solved.
I hope your children become hardcore drug addicts that become a burden on you emotionally, financially etc. and commit violent crime with guns against innocent people then perhaps you will empathize with how others are suffering such issues... and have a change of heart if you even have one...
quote:Ummm.. I said they were blaming my country... said nothing about you.. Try to focus. And we just discussed the drug thing even though I never brought it up as I(again) do not care about it as I see the whole situation as a witless war on an all powerfull enemy... Human want.
Read the above post...
quote:And no we are not to blame for gun trafficking if they have laws against it and they aren't enforcing those laws.
Yes we are to blame if we are not strongly enforcing our own gun trafficking laws and allowing it to happen on our side of the border... Once the guns are on their side of the border we have no jurisdiction and technically is not our concern but when the guns originate on our side and we are not enforcing our laws then yes we are to blame...
quote:Drugs.. we've discussed twice already in this post and that's enough of that. Kiddy porn or kid scrogging... Heyyy that's rape isn't it?.. already covered. Bank robbery... Isn't that stealin' ****? Yup sure is. Kidnapping?... Yeah add false imprisonment to my list.
Fortunately it isn't the world according to Relentless... If it was we would be sad individuals in a sad society... pathetic really...
Anyways:
1. Drugs are illegal especially hard drugs so it should be in your so called list...
2. Producing and distribution of kiddy porn is not the act of rape...
3. Bank Robbery is a little more then just stealing since it involves being armed.... being a pickpocket is totally different then being a armed robber... A armed thief is not punished the same way as a common thief... for obvious reasons...
here's one for your list though I'm sure the gang can think of others: Assault & Battery...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
I got the 35% number from many different gun dealers up here in MI...it is probably closer to 50% now...
Stable huh...LMAO again
Those #'s unless I missed it somewhere in those articles are for local areas and not national #'s... much like your 35%.
Of the articles you posted i agree with these statements:
"While the Second Amendment to the Constitution guarantees Americans the right to bear arms, the fundamental disagreement remains what kind of arms Americans may bear and what the government's role should be in maintaining public safety in a country that's very fond of its guns."
"Obama said enforcement of gun laws should be more effective, and he listed strengthening background checks, tracking guns used in violent crimes to unscrupulous dealers, and closing gun show “loopholes” "
"He also expressed support for federal passage of a law like one recently passed in California. It would use laser technology to etch a serial number onto each bullet. Obama called the tracing of bullets used in crimes “the kind of common-sense gun law that gun owners as well as victims of gun violence can get behind.”
Mach...you evidently have selective reading habits...
quote: I hope your children become hardcore drug addicts that become a burden on you emotionally, financially etc. and commit violent crime with guns against innocent people then perhaps you will empathize with how others are suffering such issues... and have a change of heart if you even have one...
You really are not worth speaking to... Congratulations on being a part of the moron majority. Enjoy your life of blissful confusion.
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posted
A gun is always the first weapon of choice in killing an innocent.... not explosives and other weapons... and more of the mentally ill rather then the criminals are being involved in gun deaths lately of which you guys do not want them to be denied gun ownership or gun use:
Woman Kills Son, Self at Gun Range Fla. (April 7) - A Florida woman fatally shot her son and then turned the gun on herself at a central Florida gun range, authorities said.
Marie Moore, 44, of Altamonte Springs and her 20-year-old son, Mitchell, were sharing a firing lane at the Shoot Straight range Sunday, Casselberry police said. Shooters in an adjacent lane said the mother and son seemed to be getting along fine. A security video shows Moore walk up behind her son, point a revolver at the back of his head and fire a single shot, police said. She then put the gun in her mouth and pulled the trigger. The son died at the scene, and the mother died later at the hospital. Family members told police that Moore had a history of mental illness. The gun was rented from the shooting range.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
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