without ever realising it consciously i learned how to kill people with my bare hands... or worse? mak them wish they were dead.
there are few regular people that could stop me if i was determined and even fewer if i have the advantage of surprise.
and the honest truth is that i just didn't comprehend that i was learning to kill people cuzof the way they /we/ you are trained.
go to any karate class and watch them. they are learning death blows. this stuff in the movies where people take a 2X4 to the head and get up and win the fight? BS. people don't get up from that. and if they do? they are short-time and confused
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: oh and any notion that canucks are a more peaceable people who need not be protected is BS. I lived there for ten years and can attest to the roaming hordes of skinheads pummeling the crap out of people.
Ya Vancouver has issues with gangs. Not sure where you lived or how often you witnessed it but it's not that bad in Toronto. Canada has less guns and less gun crime period. So getting beat up justifies my killing people. I would and thanks for being on my side, but after I calm down I don't think I should be given that kind of power.
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quote:Originally posted by Robot: I learned to shoot when I was 8 yrs. old at a range on the base my dad was stationed at. I loved it and kept it up for a few years. Still fascinated with guns but I prefer not having to worry about getting shot. We don't have the gun problems you guys have to deal with, yet. But "your" gun's are killing us more and more. Bla Bla Bla guns "don't kill people" ya sure. Common sense not political correctness please. Guns do the job too fast and too easy and do not allow for a cooling off of hot headed idiots.
I know all the bad guys have guns now. No control, or not enough gave them the guns. It would be nice to start over and limit who gets them.
A long time ago I read the US has more accidental gun deaths yearly than all of the next top ten civilized country's added together, adjusted for population. That's sad. That's a lot of friends and family dead.
My kids were taught early on how to climb trees, how to walk a balance-beam, how to look in the shadows, how to handle a knife...
and so on.
I'm not positing "my family" as a role model: any of my family might die tonight, me included--as many here know...
Point being, though, survival is not enhanced by a "turning away from," but rather by an "embracing the facts of"...
I think it's important for my children to know how to balance a checkbook, how to shop well for nutritious food, how to recognize major symptoms of vehicle malfunction...et cetera--and also how to deal with the savage.
Now...re: the savage: I don't care whether my children stave off the savage with a brick, a knife or a gun--or humor, or diplomacy.
Bottom line, it's all about DNA, so call me an egoist if you want, but I think I've proven my interest in community, justice, and fair play.
So it doesn't bother me if savages claim otherwise.
The point is balance.
I understand your point of view and it's justified. I have had many great conversations over the last twelve years with my US coworkers and friends regarding guns and gun control. If it were to be done over again, not everyone should be entitled to a gun. A .38 should be big enough for everyone else ah?
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: A long time ago I read the US has more accidental gun deaths yearly than all of the next top ten civilized country's added together, adjusted for population. That's sad. That's a lot of friends and family dead.
accidental death is a euphemism for suicide to save teh family from having to answer questions...
you take out your cleaning kit and....
Maybe for a small percentage but not really.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: A long time ago I read the US has more accidental gun deaths yearly than all of the next top ten civilized country's added together, adjusted for population. That's sad. That's a lot of friends and family dead.
accidental death is a euphemism for suicide to save teh family from having to answer questions...
posted
Does it matter? Realistically the 2nd amendment has been argued over and over and the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of private citizens keeping and bearing arms... Can we possibly care that Canadians think its a bad idea? I don't.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: A long time ago I read the US has more accidental gun deaths yearly than all of the next top ten civilized country's added together, adjusted for population. That's sad. That's a lot of friends and family dead.
accidental death is a euphemism for suicide to save teh family from having to answer questions...
quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: Does it matter? Realistically the 2nd amendment has been argued over and over and the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of private citizens keeping and bearing arms... Can we possibly care that Canadians think its a bad idea? I don't.
Hey, I don't care what some Canadians think either. But that's OK. It's all good.
I found this. Not sure how accurate it is so don't bit my head off. Or you can if you want.
The issue of "home defense" or protection against intruders may well be misrepresented. Of 626 shootings in or around a residence in three U.S. cities revealed that, for every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides (Kellermann et al, 1998). Over 50% of all households in the U.S. admit to having firearms (Nelson et al, 1987). In another study, regardless of storage practice, type of gun, or number of firearms in the home, having a gun in the home was associated with an increased risk of firearm homicide and suicide in the home (Dahlberg, Ikeda and Kresnow, 2004). Persons who own a gun and who engage in abuse of intimate partners such as a spouse are more likely to use a gun to threaten their intimate partner. (Rothman, et al) It would appear that, rather than beign used for defense, most of these weapons inflict injuries on the owners and their families.
posted
the mere fact that 50% of homes admit to having firearms is a deterrant.
I completely agree. Most people would not argue that fact.
But people are not looking at the side affects of guns and gun ownership. Or if they are they won't talk about it for fear it will bring on more regulations.
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But people are not looking at the side affects of guns and gun ownership. Or if they are they won't talk about it for fear it will bring on more regulations.
sure they are, freedom ain't cheap.
it's not the side affects of gun ownership anyway, it's the side effects of human nature.
this is from an anti-gun site:
ACT:In 2005 (the most recent year for which data is available), there were 30,694 gun deaths in the U.S:
* 12,352 homicides (40% of all U.S gun deaths), * 17,002 suicides (55% of all U.S gun deaths), * 789 unintentional shootings, 330 from legal intervention and 221 from undetermined intent (5% of all U.S gun deaths combined).
-Numbers obtained from CDC National Center for Health Statistics mortality report online, 2008.
guns don't kill people. PEOPLE do. take responsibility for your actions. don't blame machines. a durnk driver kills 5 at a busstop...
we don't blame the alcohol or the car, we blame the driver!
furthermore, our Constitution was written with the specific intent to arm the populace against the govt if need be. there is NO DOUBT that was their intent, and everybody back in the day knew it.
fact is? crime goes up when the economy stinks. the people get squirrelly
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: Does it matter? Realistically the 2nd amendment has been argued over and over and the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of private citizens keeping and bearing arms... Can we possibly care that Canadians think its a bad idea? I don't.
We already know you don't care about anything like drugs coming into this country, our guns causing more violence then ever before in other countries, etc.. etc.. we already know you want a wild wild west Utopia where there is no law and order and anything goes...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:Originally posted by glassman: guns don't kill people. PEOPLE do. take responsibility for your actions. don't blame machines. a durnk driver kills 5 at a busstop...
You can disguise it and justify it all you want but guns kills a multitude of people in a matter of seconds or minutes... knives , bats, and other less destructive weapons do not... and as it is pointed out Canada has less gun deaths and such... wonder why...
quote:we don't blame the alcohol or the car, we blame the driver!
We outlaw drunk driving which consists of drinking alcohol before driving...
quote:furthermore, our Constitution was written with the specific intent to arm the populace against the govt if need be. there is NO DOUBT that was their intent, and everybody back in the day knew it.
Those were different times and our country more or less is stable... and i doubt VERY much that our founding fathers had any idea what those little lines they put in the Constitution regarding arms would of created a monster that we now have in our society... they wrote that paper for the times they were in and was meant to evolve to the times as it becomes...
The majority uses that amendment as an excuse to own big guns to blow sh*t up and not for protection or to arm themselves in case the Gov't comes after them...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:Originally posted by jgrecoconstr: "We need to ban guns altogether... I mean if a thousandth of the population is incapable of acting responsibly then we need to control the rest of them."
Mac, This was posted above by Relentless. I never did learn how you post the quote with the name on it. It doesn't copy for me.
Click on "" and then type in the HTML codes of /qb and quote with the brackets around them at the end of the sentence you wish to quote.
quote: And to answer your question yes you could kill as many as you want sitting on top of a building with a bow and arrow or crossbow. Get some manure and whatever else Timothy Mcveigh used and kill a few hundred. Leave me in a room with 5 people and I bet I could kill all of them with a knife, a machete and I could kill more. The list of weapons is endless. I bet the major fear in Iraq for our soldiers isn't being shot but rather IEDs.
I bet if someone did a study on how many deaths that are gun related since the Constitution was first enacted I would bet that it is far more then the weapons you have mentioned put together.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
posted
Man has always created from the dawn of time a better more efficient way to kill each other. Take Hitler for example, it wasn't efficient to shoot all those people so they gassed them. So if you actually did do a study on gun to non gun related deaths I'm sure using Hitler as an example guns would come in second. If I recall the tribal wars of which I am no expert on that were in Congo I believe several years back most of those killed were hacked to pieces because they had more machetes than guns.
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: Does it matter? Realistically the 2nd amendment has been argued over and over and the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of private citizens keeping and bearing arms... Can we possibly care that Canadians think its a bad idea? I don't.
We already know you don't care about anything like drugs coming into this country, our guns causing more violence then ever before in other countries, etc.. etc.. we already know you want a wild wild west Utopia where there is no law and order and anything goes...
Our guns cause violence? I must not be aware of the newest evil A.I. being incorporated into guns and their ability to go off and cause such violence... Where is John Connor when you need him..
Seriously I don't care even slightly about Mexico's woes... If they have problems with guns being imported then I suggest they start monitoring their borders.. Novel (***$^)) idea huh? Hows about they pay attention to their #*&*hole of a country and stop trying to blame mine...
I never said anything about no laws... I have repeated that all we need are some basics:
Don't kill people unless in defense. Don't steal ****. Don't rape people.
Yeah that's about it. Simple as it should be.
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only skimmed the sources, but this looks about right: I'd say we can afford to get serious about health care before even casually debating the gun thang...
-------------------- Nashoba Holba Chepulechi Adventures in microcapitalism...
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LOL .7%... Sounds about right not because I figured but because of the uproar over guns I just knew the number had to be stupifyingly low... These nutjobs are always 180 degrees out of phase with reality. Pick the lowest cause of death and yell and scream about it... Poor usefull idiots can't even see they are tools of tyrants.
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quote:Not included in the above rankings is deaths due to iatrogenic causes -- ie, mistakes caused by the actions of health professionals -- which by some estimates is the third leading cause of death in the United States
-------------------- Nashoba Holba Chepulechi Adventures in microcapitalism...
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quote:Originally posted by Robot: Guns are a high profile way to die, so it attracts a lot of attention. It has been going on for years and it will continue for years.
Besides dieing form health issues is kinda self inflicted. And boring.
yes, and these guys that go on shooting sprees are looking for the infamy that it brings...
they'd find another way to do it if they couldn't get a gun, but banning them won't stop them from being able to get one either...
lesssee? meth is banned, heroin is banned, reefer is banned and they are not hard to get either...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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None of the stated reasons for banning guns would be squashed by the actual banning of guns.. so there has to be another reason... A gun in the hands of the free public only threatens one entity... Government. Therefore government is behind the wish to ban guns because they feel threatened. One could use the same line they use on us... If you're not up to no good then you have nothing to fear.
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quote:Originally posted by Robot: Guns are a high profile way to die, so it attracts a lot of attention. It has been going on for years and it will continue for years.
Besides dieing form health issues is kinda self inflicted. And boring.
yes, and these guys that go on shooting sprees are looking for the infamy that it brings...
they'd find another way to do it if they couldn't get a gun, but banning them won't stop them from being able to get one either...
lesssee? meth is banned, heroin is banned, reefer is banned and they are not hard to get either...
So make them harder to get and properly train the owners so the intruders die instead of the kids.
If there was more respect for guns people would live in true "free state."
If guns are harder to get less people would die. Yes they will find another way to kill but not with such success as with a gun.
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So you propose to promote freedom in a country that is not yours by making them adopt more constraining laws... Jeeze I dunno but I'm thinking there's a lack of logic there. .7%... Why can't you champion something else? Try fighting cancer or heart disease... Something where the numbers warrant it.
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Oh I know.. Sneak back to 1979 when homicide was actually ranked as a cause of death and become a citizen of this country and then fight fight fight to make it better... And then lets say around ohhh 2009ish maybe you can take a break and admire all your fine work making us safe. Thank you
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: So you propose to promote freedom in a country that is not yours by making them adopt more constraining laws... Jeeze I dunno but I'm thinking there's a lack of logic there. .7%... Why can't you champion something else? Try fighting cancer or heart disease... Something where the numbers warrant it.
Nope. Talking about slowing down the guns entering my Country.
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: Oh I know.. Sneak back to 1979 when homicide was actually ranked as a cause of death and become a citizen of this country and then fight fight fight to make it better... And then lets say around ohhh 2009ish maybe you can take a break and admire all your fine work making us safe. Thank you
Glad to here something is being done.
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